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Nun excommunicated for approving life-saving abortionFrom CNN's Carol Costello: It was an agonizing decision for all involved. A 27-year-old pregnant patient at St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center in Phoenix, Arizona became gravely ill. Doctors told her unless she aborted her 11-week-old fetus she would likely die. The problem: St. Joseph's is a Catholic hospital and abortions are largely prohibited. Sister Margaret McBride was part of an ethics panel that included doctors that consulted with the young woman. The woman had the procedure and survived. But Sister McBride took some heat. The Phoenix Catholic Diocese, led by Bishop Thomas Olmsted, automatically excommunicated the nun, effectively banning her from participating in the church. |
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It's interesting how few comments this entry has generated. I guess CNN's "Belief Blog" readers would prefer to simply avoid stories where they can't figure out how to spin-doctor it into another excuse to promote their religious beliefs.
You've got to love the way Catholics IMMEDIATELY leap to the assumption that something "must be wrong" with the story since it makes their favourite religion look bad. Gee, it couldn't be that your favourite religion actually IS bad, could it? Oh no, that's inconceivable!
it is not the religion that is bad it is SOME of the people leading it.
Now you see how dangerous the Catholic Church is! Anyone who disagrees is "cut off from heaven". Pretty powerful stuff if you believe the Catholic church's teachings. What about American politicians that are Catholic church going, church believing christians? Where are their loyalties? The USA or the vatican? As a former Catholic I never thought I'd be saying this but)...in the future, a politican's ties to the Catholic Church will have to be considered before a vote is cast in their favor.
Steve, well said. It is frightening to think about the influences that some of our politicians have considering the huge responsibility they carry. However, I am going to have to ex-communicate you for saying it. YOU ARE EX-COMMUNICATED!!!
I will never again vote for a catholic or any other idiot that professes a belief in some "fairy in the sky".!
Louise, the only people who believe in a fairy in the sky are obnoxious atheists. they are the only people over the age of 10 I ever hear speaking about God in those terms.
A nun gets ex-ommunicated for saving a life, but the worlds most heinous mass murderer, Hitler, was never ex-communicated. How sad. for the church/
I remember when my mom was 33 years old and finding out she had cancer of the uterus. She needed a hysterectomy to survive the cancer. By this point in her life she had 6 children. As the surgery was about to begin, a nun and priest were present pleading with the doctors not to perform the operation because she could have more children. Fortunately she had the operation and lived 40 more years and had 15 grandchildren. I know this isn't related to abortion, but to point of Catholics being completely irrational knowing there was a chance, very strong chance, that she would die vs hoping she might have more children is absolutely crazy. It is just one of the many reasons I would never be a Catholic again.
I'm sorry Pablo that you would never be Catholic again. Being Catholic has nothing to do with the 'people' but everything to do with Jesus Christ. He is present in the Eucharist and if anything that should be reason enough to stay Catholic.
yes, and I would never be part of any denomination that believes I am disqualified to lead because I am a woman. I doubt Jesus would approve.
Regardless whether you are a Catholic or Protestant does not matter and saying one religion is older than the other is just plain dumb. What matters is that we need to pray for those that have experienced this trial in their lives. As for those without faith, we need to pray for them, as well. By putting their faith in science, they are putting their faith in something GOD created anyway.
Faith in science is kind of a dumb term. It doesn't require faith–you benefit from its fruits every day. Should we put our faith in mythology because mythology created god anyway?
lol Rafael, science is faith in theory because science is not fact. If it were it would not keep changing. Science is a method of understanding creation. We, with our little pea brains will never fully understand until we enter the next life.
Hey CD. I watched the video. She was ex-communicated. It was lifted after she repented.
If the mother was going to die if she stayed pregnant....wouldn't the baby die anyway????.....kind of dumb to have both lives lost...in the name of religion, that's real moral.
It is not even about religion. Religion has always been used as a means of keeping women down and under the thumb of men. I am religious, but I can recognize that this issue is more about fear of women and control than it is about really believing abortion is evil.
The Bishop said that babies are not a disease and someone should tell him that women are not incubators.
50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage–and god does allow people to perform and receive abortions–if he didn't want this to happen, wouldn't he create a flood and wipe us all out? Come on people!! Religion is so undereducated
Emily, are you forgetting that evil exists? Why do foolish people, like you, blame God for everything that evil mankind do? Satan uses mankind to carry out his schemes. Another thing, if unbelievers say that there is no God, why question God? Why blame God? Therefore, all that proclaim that God is not real are so confused that they don't know what they believe.
How is man suddenly responsible for creating something? If god created everything, he created evil too, dontcha think?
Exactly, Rafael!
God did wipe us all out with a flood before. He just promised He wouldn't use that means as punishment again. Maybe the next time it will be fire!
Technically God did not create evil, but free choice, and from the choices of others comes evil. Also, just because the Bible says that the world was wiped out from a flood does not actually mean it occurred. Sometimes the Bible is meant to be taken metaphorically not verbatim.
I'm starting a "Pro-I Don't Give a Crap" movement. It amazes me, that with everything going on in the world, that people view Abortion as their top political issue.
Anand is correct – There should be no spin, no discussion. The current US law allows for an abortion and the rights of the woman to be protected. The woman is a patient is under a doctors care, and these desions do not come lightly for the both the patient and the doctors. As a Catholic we must protect life, but understand that all life is important, we cannot judge each situation, blame the woman or the doctors or the nun actng as an advisor. While this tragic for all, the right decision was made, protect the life you have.
Ironic – excommunicate a nun for counseling a family with a life threatening illness, yet protect pedophile prients.
First of all i'm a med student, so for all you morons out there that think this was a cover up by the doctors to "kill the baby" you are retarded. there are instances when the mother's life is in jeopardy and the best or only solution would be to deliver the baby (in this 11 week old cases, he/she would surely died). or sometimes when delivery is not possible you have to terminate the pregnancy. so unless you are a medical doctor specifically a OB/GYN who have to go through more years of school/training than most people in two lifetimes, shut up. I don't care how much you read on wikipedia.
2nd thing of all, i'm an orthodox christian, which is much older than roman catholicsm and we follow the teachings of the early church fathers. In a situation when the mothers life is in danger and terminating the pregnancy whether "directly or indirectly" will increase the risk of survival (and that is known only by doctors), it should be done. That is the view of the earliest/oldest christianity out there. The nun was right in her decision and the bishop was wrong in exocommunicating her in the 1st place. It should not have even been an issue. This shows again that some bishops/leaders in the catholic church have got their theologic principles out of order.
My feeling is that there is more to this story than the press knows or cares to understand. The Church does not state that an unborn child is to be saved over the life of the mother; both lives are sacred and Bishop Olmstead is well aware of this. It's frustrating that CNN spins issues or ignores important facts to make the story sensational. There is definitely more to this story than CNN reported! Bishop Olmstead knows what he is doing and so did Sister Margaret McBride.
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In other articles from other news agencies, the description was a near-fatel heart condition. As for the directives, the doctrine regarding treatment to a pregnant mother is that while she cannot have an abortion for any reason, it is okay to treat her condition with the necessary options to save her life, even if it resorts in the death of the fetus. It's a bit of a contradiction...the fetus can die by results of the treatment, but not by direct abortion....basically, causing a longer, drawn out death of the fetus or possible defect versus the latter. I'm Catholic....and if I had to choose to save my wife or unborn child versus the very possible death of them both, I'm choosing my wife. This is a decision that I constanly analyze due to my faith, but by no meas does it remove my humanity. As for the Bishop, we Catholics already know that, unfortunately, the response to this type of situation varies by dioces which causes more confusion & disappointment than resolution. As children of God, our job is to pray for the mother in her time of desperate need...pray for Sr. McBride in her time of tortured conflct...pray for those who would use this as an opportunity to deface the Catholic Church...and accept the fact that the unborn child is now with Our Father. Regardless of the debate, we cannot lose site of how forgiveness works and it's not about picking & choosing based on our own personal/social/political agendas. It's about the actual meaning of the word....to forgive.
Ding Ding Ding.... Good answer...
BTW I am not Catholic....
First: We always have to question what "gravely sick" means. Second: Catholics for Choice are not Catholics, since they are strong pro-abortion proponents. Third: The excommunication was overturned and she is still in the Church. Fourth: Did they ask any pro-life Catholic groups their position? No. Result: More CNN over-dramatization and anti-Catholic sentiment. They will do whatever it takes to bash the Church.
First: gravely sick means she was going to die. Understand English much? Second: Catholics for Choice are Catholics, just as are those who practice birth control. Who died and made you pope? Third: the fact that she was excommunicated is a big deal even if it was overturned. Where are the excommunicated pedophiles? The Catholic church is hypocritical and corrupt.
Who in the hell is "pro-abortion"? It's pro-choice, whatever the choice may be.
I'm prolife and a Catholic, but arguing that both the mother and the child should have been left to die is not only idiotic but it is cruel. There is far too much of a tendency among fanatics to put more value on the life of the child than the mother. Why is her life worth less in the eyes of God than the life of the child? The medical community that treated this woman said she was in peril, why are you, CD, more qualified to decide if this was a medical emergency than they were.
And the Sister was only "Unexcommunicated" because the matter went so public. I still find it a horrible contradiction that the Church excommunicates a woman for saving lives, but the Church has spent so many years protecting priests who commit unspeakable crimes.
What was the medical condition the ethicists allege the mother was suffering from? Funny how this disease isn't described in the article, yet it must have been identified by the doctors with some specificity. This is more lies by the medical community to justify the murder of unborn children. The Church did not excommunicate the good sister – she excommunicated herself.
>murder of unborn children
A great sign of flawed logic
Cow: If the child is in the womb at 28 weeks and considered viable then it is an unborn child. Flawed logic is when abortionists say that it's just a blob of tissue when at 8 weeks it has a heartbeat, fingers, toes, head, etc. Or, when they say it isn't human, when all it has is unique human DNA. A baby is a baby is a baby; not a dog, fish, cat or plant.
Until the child is OUT of the womb, it is unborn. If your belly says your pregnent and you have 2 children already running around, you don't say 'We have 3 children', you say 'We have 2 children and 1 on the way'. It's not born, it's not real, it's not breathing on it's own, it has no name, no certificate, no nothing. It's only living the same way plants and organisms are, because at the time that's all it is, leeching off health from the mother until it is strong enough to become born into the world.
Actually, it's been quite widely reported that she suffered from the life-threatening condition of pulmonary hypertension. You can read it about it easily online. This was in fact a grave situation in which the mother's life was imperiled.
You use the fact that the disease was not mentioned to claim that this is a conspiracy by the medical community to kill fetuses? Time to touch base with reality and to take a good, sobering look in the mirror.
You are simply making suppostions to justify your own belief system.
hey cd, you have been listening to picketers' lies and believing in pictures with false captions. there are no fingers and toes or heart beat at 8 weeks.
you strike me as the kind of person who supports the free pregnancy test/sonogram "clinics" that lie to women about how far along they are so that they will think they are too far along, or that they are earlier in the pregnancy than they really are-all to prevent them from choosing abortion-all to control them.
you strike me as the kind of person who stands outside of clinics and traumatizes women who have already made up their minds-the only difference this kind of harassment makes is that women are hurt by complete strangers on a day that might be one of the most difficult for them-on a day that should be as intimate and private as they want it to be.
also, personhood is viewed differently depending on who you're talking to. christians don't get to define when life begins just because they think they own god.
Maybe if she weren't Catholic she wouldn't have felt obligated to get pregnant in the first place, putting her own life in jeopardy.
Moooohammud Cow, I guess you believe people in comas and on life support aren't real people either?
HIPPA law would prevent disclosure of the patient's condition. But an issue in a hospital that goes to the Ethics panel must have been very serious. I agree that it is curious how this priest got the records.
Yes, I'm sure all the members of the "medical community" were sitting around, gleefully concocting ways to murder more unborn children. One of them had a brainwave and said, "Let's pretend one of our patients has a life-threatening condition so we can give her an abortion!" Sigh....
This is sadly the typcial unfeeling reaction of an anti-abortionist. First, an individual cannot excommunicate themselves. Excommunication is an official act of the Chruch hierarchy, declaring someone to be anathema, and excluded from aprticipation in Church ritual and benefit.
Second, as someone who was educated in Cahtolic theology and ethics, I was taught that theraputic abortion to save the life or long term health of the mother, while still an evil, is justified under the "Self-defense" principle of the Fifth Commandment. One is never required to submit to harm from either an external individual or an internal threat, and the actions taken to prevent such harm are justified, provided they are limited to the minimum necessary. It's no different frm you killing someone who attacks you if that's the only way to prevent them from harming or killing you, whether on the battlefield or in commission of a crime. That principle is how the Church justifies its members participating in wars.
I do not condone abortion as a method of brith control or "Choice", since one generally has a choice in the acts which precipitate conception. I do condone actions such as this one, however, to save the life of a person under threat. This reaction from the BIshop was uncalled for, and should not be taken as the proper response by the diocese or hte Catholic Church. It's hypocritical at best.
Just out of curiosity, how did Bishop Olmsted know about the abortion in the first place? Isn't HIPAA supposed to protect the health records of all individuals? Did the Bishop violate federal law by going through confidential hospital records?? How else would he know – the Bishop is in no way affiliated with the hospital where the abortion took place. Should he be prosecuted under those federal laws? He certainly can't hide behind any church law in that case. Also, should the people of Phoenix be wary of Bishop Olmsted's actions? Is he on a witch hunt?
Save a life; get kicked out of Church. RELIGION HAS THE BEST LOGIC EVER.
She's not excommunicated. Watch the video.
She was excommunicated–watch the video. The idea of repenting for saving someone's life is abhorent. If you believe that both mother and child should have died instead, CD, then say it. Otherwise your just Catholic hypocrisy blowing in the wind.
My own mother was told to abort her 4th child or die during her pregnancy. She, as a devout Catholic, told the doctor no, that since she was Catholic, there was no abortion option. Well, she died. BUT it took her over 50 years to prove the doctors right. Sorry, X Catholic, Sister, God decides if is time to die, not some leftist who uses all of the emotional, worldly reasoning to kill a child. I was that baby who should have been murdered by my mother and doctor. She died at age 93. I live and do so only because my mother was a woman of faith. Incidently, for those of you who think faith and God are for the ignorant, my mother was validictorian both in high school and college. She was a genuine intellectual with the ability to discern and not be led by the liberal, anti God, anti Catholic, anti anything moral crowd. I pray for the X sis and for the wounded mom. Yes, she was, is and will always be a mom. This baby was murdered.