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Has the Religious Right lost its children? Evangelical writer Donald Miller, author of 'Blue Like Jazz.' I was talking one day to the Rev. Jim Wallis, an evangelical leader, when he made a startling claim: The Religious Right has lost its children. Wallis said the children of ultra-conservative Christians are deserting their parents’ theology in droves. Wallis is the president of Sojourners, a network of progressive Christians. He says a new generation of Christians are tired of their faith being defined by two issues: fights over abortion and homosexuality.
Wallis cites another example as proof of his point: the popularity of evangelical writer Donald Miller, author of “Blue Like Jazz.” Wallis, it turns out, is a big fan of Miller - as well as his friend. I talked to Wallis when I was interviewing people for a profile of Miller that appeared on CNN.com. Wallis says Miller is so popular because he’s not interested in being a theological enforcer. He’s not afraid to ask hard questions and, perhaps even more, admit he doesn’t have the answer. "His questions are the questions of a new generation," Wallis says. Wallis also says that a younger generation of evangelicals also care more about how their leaders live than what they say. Miller’s mentoring project, which encourages men to mentor fatherless boys, also gives him credibility with younger evangelicals, Wallis says. Kids look at him and he’s not just attacking other people for what they believe, he says, he’s actually trying to do something. Wallis has long said that the Religious Right peaked in 2004 with the re-election of President George W. Bush. Still, it was shocking to hear him say near the end of our conversation, "The Religious Right is over because they lost their children."
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Amen.
And the Christian right has already done that many times in the past.
I don't want to believe. I want to know. – Carl Sagan
Why, oh why did we ever do away with the lion's den?
The contemporary lion's den: there were no resurrections, no ascension, no assumption, no godly blood sacrifices, no atonement theology, no original sin, no omniscient gods, no Abraham, no Moses, no Noah, no Job, no Exodus, no Jericho walls and of course no angels or satans??? Not much left to religion or the need of lion's den after all of these truths!!!!
I would settle for a pit with some hungry dogs in it.
GeorgeW and Mora the immortal turtle…..
you said…..
‘Why, oh why did we ever do away with the lion's den? I would settle for a pit with some hungry dogs in it.’…..
Why do you prescribe to this sort of hatred; are you the leaders of the pack; how many adherents do you acclaim?
Four billion, three hundred thousand, seven hundred and twelve. Five applications are still pending.
Not self-rightous -you get the point. I'm a bad typist too – We are all human.
Jim, I know a person does not need to believe in a deity to have morals and live a good an honorable life.
To CatholicMom;
I agree with: “Sometimes we may make incorrect judgments on actions and words of our own or someone else's, and so we cannot know the state of anyone’s soul, as that final step is left up to God alone.”
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”. Matthew 7:1-2
Loving and not judging others, does not change what is right or wrong – God’s word stands but we ARE NOT the judge. We need to be righteous, but self-righteous.
To CatholicMom;
Correction: We need to be righteous, but NOT sel-righteous.
Do you mean then that we are not to judge actions and words?
It's fine to point out problems in various faith systems ( I admit we have many problems because we are human and sinful), but do many of you really believe that your very life is the result of a cosmic accident? If so, why adhere to any moral code or sense of right and wrong if you are accident that evolved of primordial soup?
I believe there is a Creator who is sovereign. I believe He came to Earth to communicate with us and save us from our sin. Jesus Christ is not mythology. He is a Savior that we all need, especially me.
I really don't think there are that many Christians that make light of what you believe in the way that you make light of our beliefs. All I ask is to pick up a Bible and just see if there is something there that speaks to you.
At least, please consider respecting the Christian faith. That's all I ask.
I can appreciate that you are a believer. I respect your right to have your faith. I refuse to respect what people have faith in that they cannot prove exists. I do not make light of your belief. I take your belief very, very seriously. I do not share your belief. I would be happy to suggest some reading for you on the big bang and the theory of evolution. I read the bible frequently, all I ask is you read up on science. Scientific theory does not speak to you. There is no mystery. Just facts supported by evidence and verified by testing with repeatable results. Or, if you have verifiable evidence of your creation story, I would love to hear it.
Jim, Through my years of searching I have found the Bible does not prove that GOD exist, and to say that it does causes a circular argument that doesn't go anywhere. For example, GOD is real (how do we know), because the Bible says so, The Bible is the word of GOD, (how do we know) because the Bible was inspired by GOD. See what I mean, defies logic. As for Jesus, the thing I don't understand and no one seems to be able to explain is, at the core of Christianity you have to believe that, GOD created man then (GOD) sacrificed himself (GOD) to save man from himself (GOD), I am totally lost as to the logic of this. Question, do you think the GODs of antiquity were myths? I'm referring to Greek, Roman, and other cultures that believed in a deity. They believed in their deity as strongly as you believe in yours.
Jim- You're probably a nice guy and I can see your sincerity in your comment. But please, for your own sake, take a biology course and perhaps one in astronomy and anthropology. Your quip about "primordial soup" betrays a serious lack of understanding in evolutionary theory. Peace.
@Jim.... Others have gone after other points within your post. I am going to take issue with the first part of your assertion and question concerning 'morality.'
You are making a very interesting If/then logical deduction that often gets posted by believers in a creator or deity.
Your statement and question come out as this......."(IF) we are a cosmic accident, (THEN) 'WHY' adhere to any moral code or sense of right and wrong, if you are an accident, etc..etc..?"
Because, your insinuating that one must have a belief in a creator, as opposed to evolution to have a sense of morality....
Some people don't believe in any deity, nor do they believe in a creator and......live by a strict moral code. WHY...?
I would suggest that you, by now, should be able to answer that one for yourself.... If you can't, I will come back later and continue the discussion. But, venture to say that 'To live morally *does not* require a belief in a creator or creationism. That is a start.....
Peace to you Jim....
JohnQuest ... I know God is real because of how He has worked in my life ... Ive NEVER hard anyone say God exists because the bible says so. Now, as to the Roman and Greek gods? Yes I believe they were very very real. I believe they were demons.
The dates match up well ... the Bible talks about demons in ancient times oppressing humans. The bible also talks about the sons og gods breeding with the daughters of man ... this would be the demigods of mythology. And the Grecco-Roman mythology talks about Zeus and other gods having sex with humans.
So yes, I believe they were real.
And going with the old earth big bang theory of creation .... who created the matter that exploded and who caused the explosion? My money is on God.
To JohnQuest, you stated….. Question, do you think the GODs of antiquity were myths? I'm referring to Greek, Roman, and other cultures that believed in a deity. They believed in their deity as strongly as you believe in yours.
Where are they today if their belief in their deity was as strong? There is not another institution on earth that has lasted as long as the Catholic Church. [2000 years]
I would have to encourge all who have commented on Jim's post to read C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity." (Although his other works are well worth reading, I would recommend this one for this particular instance.) I am a former atheist and I completely understand how it feels to not believe in any higher power, and to trust in only what I can see and what can be proven by scientific evidence. While I do not claim to be a Christian, for the most part, Lewis makes a clear and logical argument about the existance of a greater power in the opening chapters of this book. Religion and science do not necessarily cancel one another out. It is only the "fundamentalist" atheists and the fundamentalist Christian right who perpetuate this mutually exclusive idea. There is a great variety of works, both philoshophical and scientific that explore the possibility of science and religion exisisting together. I would suggest that both atheists and Christians pick up a book and hold their tounge until they are at least willing to see the other side of the picture.
CatholicMom, Thank you all for this lively and insightful discussion. Judaism is older than Christianity, why are you not like Jesus a follower of the Jewish faith? Paganism and Hinduism are my far older than either Christianity or Judaism.
Jim, how can you ask people to respect christianity when so much that's wrong with the world stems directly from it's barbaric teachings? The Old Testament is one of the most vile pieces of writing that's ever been cobbled together by humans, and certainly the god of the old testament can only be described as despotic, misogynistic, spiteful, vengeful, filled with hate and vitriol. The New Testament is only marginally better and that's only by comparison to the Old Testament.
If you want to be taken seriously in the new millennia then stop peddling a Bronze Age religion as the answer to all ills.
"do many of you really believe that your very life is the result of a cosmic accident? If so, why adhere to any moral code or sense of right and wrong if you are accident that evolved of primordial soup?"
Jim, I just can never get this point, though it is made often by religious people. Even if I believe with all my heart that I am a "cosmic accident" and there is no god, I am still going to strive to be kind to my fellow "accidents" and do them no harm. The Golden Rule does not apply only if a conscious plan set the wheels in motion. It applies when one person recognizes the humanity in another, the fact that we are all the same inside. It's called empathy. I have never understood why a belief in an unseeable, unknowable "god" is required to treat other people with kindness and respect. For me, the two matters are completely separate.
JohnQuest,
You stated:……………………… “Judaism is older than Christianity, why are you not like Jesus a follower of the Jewish faith? Paganism and Hinduism are my far older than either Christianity or Judaism.”
The Old Testament foreshadows the New Testament of the Bible and the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. Christianity encompasses the Old Testament as well as the New Testament.
To JohnQuest;
Belief in God is not all about scientific proof and no matter what anyone thinks about evolution, it didn’t create the soul. I believe (for many reasons, but not because “someone else says it is so”) and you don’t – that doesn’t make either one of us less than human.
Your statement is inaccurate. You are making absolute claims about if evolution created the soul. There is no need to prove that the evolutionary process created a soul. Your statement makes a claim of certainty that a soul exists. Please provide verifiable evidence of a soul. Once you have proved that a soul exists, then we can discuss theories on where it came from. I await your evidence.
Gene, I offer my sincerest apology not only to you but to all believers, I was not trying to say that to believe in a deity is less than human (although my words can be read as such). I was trying to say that the belief in a deity defies currently human understanding of logic and physics.
Gene,
You said, "Belief in God is not all about scientific proof and no matter what anyone thinks about evolution, it didn’t create the soul."
Have you ever seen a soul? How do you know you have one? I could show you a lung, or a heart of a testicle. You can't show me a soul. Where is your soul located? Can you sell it to the devil? Hmmm....
To David Johnson,
I am curious....do you love anyone?
Last comment is to Gary.
Sorry for the typos (I make no excuse, I am an idiot) or a bad typist.
I feel your pain...... I am both.
We sometimes hide from God, he doesn’t hide from us. I think you can see him in the face of others – if you look at them with love, instead of hatred, but I don’t know everything – Do you?
Gene,
You said, "We sometimes hide from God, he doesn’t hide from us. I think you can see him in the face of others – if you look at them with love, instead of hatred"
You are so right. When I was younger, I use to look this girl in the face and I swear I could see god. I use to scream "god" at different times, when I was with her. LOL. You see what you want to see. Don't be silly.
There is no evidence whatsoever for any higher power which means your belief structure is entirely flawed. Please try to be more mature and look beyond the brainwashing that you received as a child, so you can stop wasting your time with religion and start living. After all, you only get one run through, so you'd better make the most of it!
Thanks Gene, The answer GOD, is fundamentally unsatisfactory. To say GOD created (started) everything is not really saying anything. In other words "something that is fundamentally above our understanding and comprehension. And we as humans will never be able grasp, see, hear, or ever possibly understand and that is beyond time and space or any physical characteristics, also, we can never prove the existence of. This non thing that defies all human nature and logic is the cause for all that we experience but can not an explanation. I hope at least we can come to an agreement that neither of us really know the reason why or how, you "choose" to believe in a deity for your own reason and it works for you, I can not just believe something because someone else says it is so, there has to be proof, empirical or logical, the belief in a deity at present just doesn't pass the test.
Some of us have found that answer – in God – and finding God, doesn’t mean that you stop thinking. You just don’t have to “search” so much. “The fundamental reality of God transcends human rationality.”
Gene, glad you found God. Where was he hiding and what did he or she look like?
While we can never disprove that a god exists, we can say with great certainty that the existence of a creator is completely unnecessary to explain our world and our universe. Claiming that God is an answer for anything simply adds additional layers of complexity to existing natural explanations. There is strong evidence that the idea of a "Big Brother" in the sky is a man-made delusion-one that does the believer and society a good deal of harm.
@Gene
You said, "Some of us have found that answer – in God – and finding God, doesn’t mean that you stop thinking. You just don’t have to “search” so much. “The fundamental reality of God transcends human rationality.”"
You are so right. And if we say that god causes it to rain, the mountain to rumble, sickness to befall us, famine, etc. that also allows us to stop thinking. We don't need to search. We have an answer.
We would never have discovered antibiotics if we simply said, "god causes illness". We now know why it rains and why the mountain rumbles. All because we were not content to say, "god did it".
“The fundamental reality of God transcends human rationality.” Um, no. Reality means "the state of things as they actually exist," so where's your proof for the existence of a higher power?
I think many Christians have lost focus on God and instead of practicing the 2 greatest commandments (36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.”- Matthew 22:36-40), they practice the sin of judging others (3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.”-Matthew 7: 1-5) Loving and not judging others, does not change what is right or wrong – God’s word stands but we ARE NOT the judge.
As Christians, if we call ourselves Christians we need to be Christians; A Christians actions are infinitely more important that anything we say.
Then, I look at the comments on The”Belief Blog” – the “hang-out” for Atheists, who assume, judge, display religious intolerance and speak as if they were genuine bible scholars, when in reality, they know nothing about God or faith. Humans do have souls and souls require more that scientific and proof. God doesn’t have to prove anything to his creation. Human comprehension is very limited and just because you’re not able to understand it, does not mean it doesn’t exist. How can you compare human intelligence, to the infinite knowledge of our creator? Can any Atheist out there, explain precisely, how, when and why all existence occurred? I chose to believe God.
Gene, those are fine words. Have you consider why non believers "hang out" here? It could be because, most of us are searching for something (meaning I'd guess). I can only speck intelligently for myself (and sometimes not even that), I found the belief in a deity lacking, just because I don't know something I just can not plug in an answer. I do not know how or why everything got started, but because I don't know doesn't mean I should just drop in an answer and convince myself it fits. I have found that usually the simplest answer is the right one, why does our have to have a meaning, why are we not just byproducts, why do we have to believe that there is more than what is here. We may never know all the answer but to stop searching because we have an answer (GOD created everything) is not only illogical it goes against human nature.
Gene,
….about the speck in our brother’s eye and the plank in our own eye….
You must first take the plank out of your eye and THEN you are able to see the speck in your brother’s eye…. we must judge whether something [an action or word] is a speck/ plank, this we must judge in order to tell if it is a speck/ plank. So we determine the specks and the planks by judging….those in our eye and those in our brother’s eye. It is a must.
However….
We are not to judge our soul or the soul of our brother, for that judgment is solely God’s judgment. So, yes, judge right from wrong concerning our actions and words and look at other’s actions and words and judge whether they are right or wrong and whether or not we should adhere to them on our life’s journey.
Sometimes we may make incorrect judgments on actions and words of our own or someone else's, and so we cannot know the state of anyone’s soul, as that final step is left up to God alone.
HALLELUJAH! The children are using their own brains!
Lets hope they continue to do so.
I have been in a few churches, but I'm sure that there must be a floor made of sand for the faithful to burry their heads in somewhere…
Logic, reason and parents that taught me to think for myself and not allow others to think for me, not even them, has kept me free of religion, drugs, and politics. I know why non believers feel the way they do. I don't understand how or why believers feel the way they do, other than, they were indoctrinated from birth by the people that "would never deceive them" Parents. I have listened to and\or watched a lot of debates over the years and found that arguments for a deity incomplete or circular at best and usually incoherent. I thought it was human nature to NOT believe without evidence to believe. Most people did not believe the earth was round, until evidence was produced, most people did not believe in evolution until evidence was shown. Most people do not rely on faith for anything in life except for the most important thing of all the existence of a deity which would be easy to prove (if one actually existed). All (it) would have to do is show up.
I often wondered why Larry King never did an interview with God. It sounds like it would be the ratings winner hands down. It would settle all of the religious arguments and bickering about who’s right and who’s wrong. After the interview, there would be no such thing as atheists, agnostics or even believers. Everyone would KNOW. As a bonus, maybe they could get Jesus and Mohammad to pop in and take questions and settle all the Christian vs. Muslim vs. Jew arguments. I think it would be pretty easy for an omnipotent Supreme Being to make time to do the interview along with the boy and his buddy Mo. Come on, Larry. Start working the phones and get this thing set up. The world is waiting.
" I thought it was human nature to NOT believe without evidence to believe."
John, this is disproved every day by the crazy, fantasy-based beliefs of today's conservatives, as you now realize.
I am always amazed at how right-wingers will fly into a frenzy over the wildest, most improbable stories, as long as the story reflects badly on progressive people (or blacks, or immigrants, or atheists, or city dwellers). I mean, FEMA building concentration camps for conservatives? Idiotic, right? The wingnuts when insane over this one second after Glenn Beck made the accusation. They just don't seem to have the "Hey, wait a minute" response that is built into normal thinking people.
Evolution a theory which has been all but proven didnt turn me away from religion. Just because the earth is billions of years old,natural selection and evolution exist dosnt mean God dosnt exist. God could be in control of anything, I turned away from religion because of religious narrow minded humans.
What about evolution? That's the one that turned me away from religion.
Evolution destroys the Creation Week myth. It derails the fundamentalist belief in a universe that is less than 10,000 years old. It enables us to explain how the diverse species, that inhabit the planet, came to be. No god required.
Read Richard Dawkins latest book "The Greatest Show On Earth". It is AWESOME.
We still don't know how life began. The study of this, is called abiogenesis. Google this.
God could be using evolution in his creation. It's possible. Don't stop believing in god just because of evolution.
No one can prove there is a god. No one can prove there is no god. There is more evidence against there being a god, than there is for the existence of god. That's why I am an agnostic.
David, I agree, except for your pat "no god required". What do you think is pushing evolution against the tide of entropy, leading it in the direction of increasing order rather than the usual randomness? You don't have to call it "god" if you don't want to (I don't), but there is *something* out there pushing things toward order.
You can watch the sand blow around on a beach for a million years, and the wind will never, ever form, even for a moment, a scale model of the Taj Mahal. Or anything else more complex than another pile of sand. Randomness alone cannot drive evolution.
"Christ's life, death, and resurrection have brought victory over 'the powers.' He shattered the myth of their absolute authority by demonstrating his freedom in relation to them". – Jim Wallis
vs. "The empty tomb story is a Markan creation"- the large number of contemporary NT historians