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July 28th, 2010
01:30 PM ET

CNN Exclusive: South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu talks retirement

[cnn-video url= http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/international/2010/07/27/cotd.tutu.cnn%5D

A week after announcing plans to retire from public life, South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu–who chaired his country's Truth and Reconciliation Commission after the fall of apartheid–talks exclusively to CNN International's Connect the World.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Africa • Leaders • Race • South Africa

soundoff (20 Responses)
  1. Mark from Middle River

    Gary – Simple defuse of you arguement. I am a devout Christian and I do not hold those views and I know others that feel the same so ...to cut and paste "sorry" but you are attempting to lump all Christians in together. Sorta like a few of my African American friends and relatives attempt to do when they discuss whites and race. Because of a few klan and neo-naz exist they want and believe with all of their heart that every white member of society are card carrying klan members.

    It seems that with such generalizations and stereotypical reasoning folks, such as yourself, will never see or live within peace within your own lives.

    July 30, 2010 at 12:08 pm |
    • Gary

      Mark, then if you are a devout Christian who believes devout religious folks who are Hindus,Buddist,Muslims,even agnostics who are good people and can still go to heaven then I retract my statement about you. If you truely believe that. You speak very differently from most any devout christian I have ever met. You analogy with the plight of African Americans and devout judgemental Christians is a weak argument but I respect you and replies..

      July 30, 2010 at 12:49 pm |
    • Reality

      From Professor Somerville's thoughts about the convergence of religions:

      Religion can bring us to the verge, to the brink, but like Moses, who led his people to the Promised Land, but could not enter in, there is no place for religion in the world to come. Religion is our vehicle for the journey. Once arrived, it will be left at the door.

      Of course, Somerville assumes there is an afterlife which is one of those questions no one has an answer to.

      July 31, 2010 at 12:53 pm |
  2. Scott

    As fun as these internet debates on faith and religion are, it really comes down to this. Christian, live the teachings of Jesus. If we do then individuals like Reality have nothing to mock but our motives, and if the work of Jesus is being done then who cares.

    July 30, 2010 at 11:43 am |
    • Reality

      Scott,

      Telling it as it is based on the studies of contemporary religious exegetes, is not a form of mockery. The names of some of these exegetes: Crossan, Borg, Funk, Vermes, Pagels, Meyer, Mack, Doherty, Ehrman, Eisenman, Fredriksen, Ludemann, Macoby, Meier, Sanders, Freke and Gandy, Horsley, Johnson, Wright, Strauss, Reimarus, Holtzmann, Bultmann, Kasemann, Robinson and Schweitzer.

      July 31, 2010 at 12:53 am |
  3. Mark from Middle River

    Still trying to understand how when a person takes their faith and does notable work enough that a true atheist can acknowledge the work but finds fault in the spiritual motivation behind such.

    Reality, I am just a simple guy and I know a lot of simple Christian and Muslim type folks who find that God empowers and strengthens the same to do good works and live quite honorable lives. Before I bounced for a week or so Reality you were argueing about those people of faith who were praying for that atheist speaker. For a few days you went on and on about how they shouldn't or something along those lines.

    At the end your efforts fell totally flat when the atheist in question posted a message on some site saying how he in some words thanked those who were praying honestly for his health even though he disagreed with them. Basically what many atheist on that blog were saying but you could not bring yourself to say. I other words you sorta stood alone which is honorable in many ways.

    Reality, I can think of folks like my Grandmother and quite a few more that fight for the positives in society and they come into that fight under the banner of faith. Many of the walk five miles types folks... they are not weighted down, in fact just like Tutu their faith allows those of faith to fly and more importantly soar.

    Peace dude

    July 30, 2010 at 2:39 am |
    • Gary

      Mark from Middle River ....No peace in religion Mark ...sorry devout Christians think muslims are headed straight to hell many fundamentlist muslims believe infidels headed straight to hell...no peace @ all in your religous life or status quo none @ all.

      July 30, 2010 at 10:58 am |
    • Reality

      Mark, Apparently my reply to you about faith got deleted. This blog is so very strange. So let summarize my summary on faith. Your relatives were basically given the wrong books/codes to read. They should have read the pre-bible human-behavior codes found in Hammurabi's writings and those found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Google it!!!

      July 30, 2010 at 6:07 pm |
  4. Joseph MA

    Wow, wow, wow Reality... you pick and choose from the Catholic Encyclopedia just the first part as if that is something acknowledged as a Discrepancy. I think you forgot to read on the rest of the paragraph!! Here it is for you....

    "In the present instance the writer of Acts has omitted St. Paul's journey into Arabia and sojourn there. The evidence of the omission is in the text itself. In Acts 9:19, the writer speaks of St. Paul's sojourn in Damascus as covering a period of "certain days". This is the indefinite description of a relatively short space of time. In Acts 9:23, he connects the next event narrated with the foregoing by declaring that it came to pass "after many days were fulfilled". It is evident that some series of events must have had place between the "certain days" of the nineteenth verse, and the "many days" of the twenty-third verse; these events are Paul's journey into Arabia, his sojourn there, and his return to Damascus."

    In other words, the encyclopedia clears explains what the 'scholarly objections' are and why they are invalid.

    Also, please keep this also from the encyclopdeia "There is here verified what is the usual fact when two inspired writers narrate synchronistic events. No writer of either Testament had in mind to write a complete history. Out of the great mass of words and deeds they grouped together those things which they deemed best for their scope. They always concur on the great lines of the doctrines and the main facts; they differ in that one omits certain things which another relates"

    July 29, 2010 at 10:51 am |
    • Reality

      Ahh, the authoritative Catholic Encyclopedia, a wealth of myths and embellishments written in an attempt to keep 2000 years of flawed theology and history in some form of belief. Well, tis the 21st century and the now educated "pew peasants" are no longer impressed!!

      July 29, 2010 at 1:01 pm |
    • Joseph MA

      All the rhetoric after you brought it up as a referece

      July 29, 2010 at 2:25 pm |
    • Reality

      Note: The Catholic "Encylopedia" was added in the other scholarly objection category to give added support references contained in even the very dated Catholic Encyclopedia. Give it ten years, it along with the OT/torah, NT, koran and those Mormon gold plates of Joe Smith will all be filed in the fiction and semi-fiction sections of most libraries.

      July 29, 2010 at 5:48 pm |
  5. Guster

    Wow, the reward goes to Reality for the best CSI t.v. show plot of all time. Now you just have to decide which CSI. Miami ? Las Vegas? New York?

    July 28, 2010 at 5:41 pm |
    • Reality

      Guster,

      Unfortunately, there were no CSIs in first century Palestine. Had there been, we would have been spared 2000 years of a very flawed religion. Actually, modern technology would have spared us from all religions.

      July 28, 2010 at 6:12 pm |
  6. Reality

    The body of the historic Jesus, as per the contemporary experts who have exhaustively studied the scriptures, was more than likely buried in a shallow grave as were all crucified rabble-rousers. So one surmises said body was "resurrected" by some wild dog or vulture or simply rapidly decomposed to water and various calcium and phosphates salts.

    But once again, there is this earlier version:

    "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    July 28, 2010 at 5:26 pm |
    • mary

      really? your evidence comes from some biased philosopher from the 1700, which is really something the Jews have been passing down as 'fact' generation after generation. 'maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing', oh yeah. why did they all die as martyrs then? plus, Jesus' burial was handled by a rich pharisee/secret disciple and the disciples were too simple to come up with a master plan of hiding Jesus' body.

      July 28, 2010 at 9:01 pm |
    • Reality

      Mary, Mary, Mary,

      As with a lot if not all the Christian scriptures, there is a lot of historical failings and questions and that includes the supposed martyrdom of the apostles. Added information for your perusal:

      Some theologians argue that NT account is ahistorical because there is no corroborating evidence outside the New Testament or the writings of the Church fathers. According to this perspective, the persecutions either never happened or were exaggerated by either the New Testament authors as part of a polemic against the Jews. This polemical exaggeration was intensified by later writers such as the Church Fathers. For example, it is argued that the incidents in the New Testament represent isolated, local incidents and do not represent an institutional policy. Later events after the Bar Kokhba rebellion may have led to a re-interpretation of the isolated events into a perception of institutional policy. See also List of events in early Christianity.

      Other scholarly objections

      The Catholic Encyclopedia cites several objections against the authencitiy of the Acts: "Nevertheless this well-proved truth has been contradicted. Baur, Schwanbeck, De Wette, Davidson, Mayerhoff, Schleiermacher, Bleek, Krenkel, and others have opposed the authenticity of the Acts. An objection is drawn from the discrepancy between Acts ix, 19-28 and Gal., i, 17, 19. In the Epistle to the Galatians, i, 17, 18, St. Paul declares that, immediately after his conversion, he went away into Arabia, and again returned to Damascus. "Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas." In Acts no mention is made of St. Paul's journey into Arabia; and the journey to Jerusalem is placed immediately after the notice of Paul's preaching in the synagogues. Hilgenfeld, Wendt, Weizäcker, Weiss, and others allege here a contradiction between the writer of the Acts and St. Paul."[24]

      July 28, 2010 at 11:32 pm |
    • mary

      well, after this post I'm not gonna continue this useless discussion under an archbishop Tutu video, but as our savvy friend Joseph here has pointed out, the NT was not meant to tell history and you are trying too hard to rewrite history. however, there no reason to believe that early Christians tampered their accounts so as to make themselves look good and the veracity of the gospel accounts have already been proven as consistent by scholars, past and present. I suggest that before trying so hard to dismiss the veracity of Christian events (and also just reading what you want to hear), you would also fairly try to dismiss every other historical and non-historical account that is not related to religion, and you will find out that most times than not, it is all more biased and manipulated than religious related accounts. 😉

      July 29, 2010 at 11:37 am |
  7. Guster

    And where might that grave be anyway? Haven't you heard, Jesus is risen! We need more great men like Tutu. Enjoy your retirement Bishop.

    July 28, 2010 at 5:14 pm |
  8. Reality

    Although a great man and leader, Tutu is still weighed down by the sins of Henry VIII and also the myths of Christianity. Maybe he will now have time to read about the historic, simple, preacher man aka Jesus who lies a-mouldering is his grave.

    July 28, 2010 at 3:28 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.