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July 29th, 2010
10:44 AM ET

soundoff (271 Responses)
  1. Gary

    No proof whatsover bible ,old or new testament is the word of God. @ religous folks own admission they base their arguments on faith...Faith and faith alone. bible written by man 2100+ years ago. Some great work was poured into some of the books. Some of the others make no sense and contract other parts of the bible. As an agnostic I realize I can not prove that God dosnt exist. however the burden of proof lies with the Faithful

    July 29, 2010 at 3:53 pm |
    • Peter F

      "The burden of proof" is a phrase that an atheist or agnostic might choose. If you have convinced yourself there is no god and fail to seek him out, you will not see God. However, he has laid out lots of evidence regarding his work in our life (in history, the Bible and both in our present world and human nature). It is not as if this debate will end with whoever has "proven" God's existence somehow, though I question what more proof non-believers seek. It is about truth. Who has control over our lives? Who has the highest authority? Who has created the heavens and the earth? Who loves us more than we love ourselves? Talking about such things will not prove or disprove God...

      July 29, 2010 at 4:24 pm |
    • Luke

      Peter F – False. And I'm not bothering to explain. I've done it probably three dozen times this month. Go look it up yourself.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:27 pm |
    • Peter F

      It can't be false. Somebody is wrong. Arguing about it won't change the truth. I don't need to look anything up to understand that. Either there is a god (or gods), or there isn't. The result of the ongoing Christian/atheist debate will not affect reality.

      July 29, 2010 at 7:23 pm |
    • Peter F

      Perhaps I misunderstood your point. But I don't think there's anyway for me to be wrong with that statement, lol

      July 29, 2010 at 11:18 pm |
    • Luke

      Peter F – you said, "If you have convinced yourself there is no god and fail to seek him out, you will not see God. However, he has laid out lots of evidence regarding his work in our life (in history, the Bible and both in our present world and human nature)."

      That is a false statement. I have, and essentially everyone else with similar views to me, not convinced myself there is no god. We have examined the evidence presented to us, and rejected the hypothesis. The clues and supernatural phenomena don't add up, and we reject it. It's not like I am sticking my fingers in my ears when I hear the religious speak. I listen intently, and point out incorrect ideas, false conclusions, lies, deceit and delusional data. What you say is laid out before me is not substantial enough to those that have studied the evidence and discovered alternative and justifiable conclusions to what used to be unanswerable questions. Therefore, your statement is false and you are simply passing judgment on the skeptics to fill your own narrative, which in itself is misunderstood and quite easily, and unfortunately for you, refuted.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:40 pm |
  2. Luke

    This is absolute insanity people. They didn't even use a Gregorian calendar back then, so what makes you think one could predict a day in May when they didn't even know what May was? I'm crying inside.

    July 29, 2010 at 3:42 pm |
    • peace2all

      @Luke

      I am with you brother.... I feel as if in these posts myself, you, David Johnson, and Eric G. , verify, etc.... are beating our heads against a wall....

      However, I do enjoy posting with you....

      Peace to you...

      July 29, 2010 at 3:46 pm |
    • Luke

      We are beating our heads against a wall. However, it doesn't stop me from attempting to spread knowledge. Someone, somewhere...with a rationale mind...will read it and a light will go off. Knowledge spreads like a virus. Unfortunately, so does idiocy. It's the old ying vs yang.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:53 pm |
    • verify

      Yeah, Luke, have you had them tell you that the fact that we use A.D. on the calendar is *proof* that Jesus was "God"!?

      July 29, 2010 at 3:54 pm |
    • verify

      Hi, peace2all, good to see you! Well, they don't seem to throw virgins into volcanoes anymore, or burn witches... some people spoke up. Long live reason and logic.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:58 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      I'm waiting for someone to throw out Pascal's Wager, which I equate to quitting your job and buying a mansion simply because you bought a lottery ticket (just in case you win, ya know).

      Haven't seen that one yet in this thread.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:13 pm |
    • Grant

      Sean, check out the one about Obama's favorite theologian. It's in there.....

      July 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm |
    • peace2all

      @verify and @Luke

      I get away from the computer for awhile, and I see I have been missing out on the action...

      @verify... Yep, we have come a long ways from throwing virgins into volcanoes and the burning of witches...
      Good to see you posting too...!

      I will always have your back as long as I am on line and posting...

      Peace....

      July 29, 2010 at 8:22 pm |
  3. sheetiron

    Jesus said, and its says in other portions of scripture that no one knows the hour or the day. So why do people give these people and others who claim to know the date any attention? The Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired, infallible, inerrent, authoritative, LIVING Word of God, and THE Absolute Truth. It says no one can know the date, therefore no one can know the date! End of discussion! Why are people who say they believe in the Bible still rattled by these claims?

    July 29, 2010 at 3:38 pm |
    • peace2all

      @sheetiron

      Hi there...!

      And you absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt know that what is written in the bible is the undeniable and absolute truth of God...?

      And how 'exactly' do you know this.....??

      Please do not quote biblical verses at me, nor tell me what you 'believe' in your heart.... because we all know 'belief' is just that a belief.... a belief *does NOT* = Absolute Fact..

      So, please @sheetiron...... enlighten me... I am sincerely interested....

      Peace to you......

      July 29, 2010 at 3:43 pm |
    • sheetiron

      Because it says it is.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:47 pm |
    • sheetiron

      Not to mention I experience daily, a real meaning relationship with the God the Bible speaks of who confirms what is written in his Holy Word.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:50 pm |
    • sheetiron

      Even though you propably doubt it Luke, I completely understand what you are saying. But I assure you, me and you are talking about two entirely different experiences.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:01 pm |
    • NEON whip

      as in you confuse your thoughts with his, and vice versa? you convinced me.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:03 pm |
    • Luke

      sheetiron – You may say it's different, but inside the brain...they're identical. Can't fight neurology.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:09 pm |
    • sheetiron

      I assure you, neurobiology cannot reproduce what is experienced when one has a real meaningful relationship with the Creator.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:11 pm |
    • NEON whip

      but can you accept all of science except neurobiology b/c you think they're "mistaken"

      July 29, 2010 at 4:13 pm |
    • sheetiron

      Not to mention Luke, everything you described just seems like an emotional response. Do consider a relationship to simply an emotional response? If all I needed was a feeling, a rush, or a high, trust me. There are plenty of things I would have turned to or stuck with than God. No, nothing replaces a RELATIONSHIP with the one who knitted me together in my mothers womb, the one who has been with me through all lifes trials, then one who gave his very self, as a ransom for my freedom.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm |
    • Luke

      sheetiron – Then you are merely delusional. Don't worry, it's rather common.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm |
    • verify

      sheetiron, You said, you believe the Bible is truth because, "it says it is". The Koran says it is the truth; so does "Scientology: The Fundamentals of Thought", and so do many other books. So what?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:17 pm |
    • sheetiron

      True verify, but their claims are incorrect. The Bibles isnt.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:20 pm |
    • Luke

      verify – If the bible is truth, then I hope sheetiron doesn't know any women with short hair. They must be "cast outside the city walls" if so. And something about me owing you an Ox if I covet your wife. For the record, my wife is seriously hot and if you covet her, I don't mind. It's natural. And I certainly don't want an ox. I'll take a beer though. Deal?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm |
    • sheetiron

      Luke, why are you proposing that I burden non jewish people with the Old Testament Leviticale Laws that were bound only to the Jewish people which were brought into fufillment when the Christ came?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:25 pm |
    • ttwp

      IThe Bible also says, "...His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16

      July 29, 2010 at 4:28 pm |
    • Luke

      sheetiron – Because the OT is the foundation of your religion and you can't discount it. You don't get to Cherry Pick your bible. You take all of it, or none of it. You don't get to pick parts. Are you sure you want to engage in this? I am about to lay waste to the NT too.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:32 pm |
    • sheetiron

      But im not discounting it. Im doing the opposite actually. I embrace all the Old Testament. Including the parts you forgot to point about the requirements of the Leviticle Laws being brought into fulfillment when the Christ came. Get into it all you want. Say all you want, It will not matter. The Bible being the Holy Spirit inspired, infallible, inerrent, authoritative, LIVING Word of God, and the Absolute Truth is something I refuse to negotiate on. There is no discussion, there is no debate, there is no meeting in the middle.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:36 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Reality

      I think you forgot the flood.

      God love us!

      July 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm |
  4. Mike

    Verify, I am not sure why you think Jesus could not write.

    Second, it is written that an Angel tells Jesus of the time to trust the sickel into the harvest (Rev)
    and that Jesus gives us everything the Father has given him(the gospels)
    But it is for us that the last days will come like a theif in the night (2 thes)

    He left a book with more original manuscripts then anyother book. He left the teaching of the apostles and the Jews.

    He didn't just say He was God, He showed He was God by fullfilling the old testament prophicies

    July 29, 2010 at 3:07 pm |
    • verify

      Mike, I can see that your summer is going to be very full, if you are really interested in knowledge. Study up on Luke's suggestions about biology, zoology, genetics and evolution. Then look into the numerous Bible scholars who have *facts* about the Bible that you are reading... Bart Ehrman, Hector Avalos (you can even see some of their talks on youtube), and many, many others who have done real research.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:23 pm |
    • peace2all

      @Mike

      "He didn't just say He was God, He showed He was God by fulfilling the old testament prophecies."

      It appears that you are engaging in a self-sealing argument and circular logic.

      1)How do you know that he showed he was God..i.e...by fulfilling the old testament prophecies."

      It always amazes me that believers use as proof a book called the bible. What it says=proof. When in reality, the 'humans' that wrote the bible had their own agendas, cultures of their era, and on and on....

      So, basically 'anything' that is offered as proof in science to the contrary of the bible writings, is used as 'proof' that the bible is correct. Hence the self-sealing argument. Any proof to the contrary just gets reinforced as stronger beliefs for the believers.

      Case in point: Since Astronomy, Cosmology, and Quantum Physics have been continually answering questions that goes against the biblical/christian 'faith'..... we are now seeing such things as 'creationism and intelligent design.' You see.....God really does exist, look....science is prooving it..!

      Also, what amazes me, is just because there are sometimes some holes in scientific theory in any of the sciences, believers some how make the mental leap that Obviously/Must mean that God Exists...! Believers never offer any verifiable proof to be tested and scrutinized. Heck....maybe it means there is *not* a god/gods.... or there are multiple gods... or there is something else that isn't a god, and we have no understanding of it......

      Good luck in your research Mike...

      Peace to you......

      July 29, 2010 at 3:39 pm |
    • ttwp

      @verify: "Then look into the numerous Bible scholars who have *facts* about the Bible that you are reading... Bart Ehrman, Hector Avalos (you can even see some of their talks on youtube), and many, many others who have done real research."

      Bart Ehrman in his book Jesus Interrupted, states, "In the Book of Matthew, there is not a word about Jesus being God."

      His research seems faulty and with at least one lie. When talking about Jesus in the first Book of Matthew it states, "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son (Jesus), and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23 Here's one mention of Jesus being "God with us." Yet Mr. Ehrman claims there's not a word about Jesus being God.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:15 pm |
    • Grant

      ttwp, I wouldn't take any accounts of the nativity as being truth – they're all rehashed versions of pre-christian mythologies rooted in astronomy. If you can find a different passage in Matthew, then perhaps you'd have a leg to stand on with your argument.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:26 pm |
    • ttwp

      @Grant: Regardless of what you or I believe...the fact is Mr. Erhman is trying to pick apart the Bible and he can't even get out of the first chapter of Matthew without a discrepancy. So much for his in-depth research.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:34 pm |
    • Reality

      The illiteracy of the simple preacher man aka Jesus, as per contemporary experts:

      From Professor Bruce Chilton's commentary in his book, Rabbi Jesus, An Intimate Biography,

      "What Luke misses is that Jesus stood in the synagogue as an illiterate m–amzer in his claim to be the Lord's anointed". Note: Luke 4: 16 is a single attestation. No where else in the NT does it say Jesus could read thereby making said passage historically unreliable.

      Crossan suggests Jesus was an illiterate "Jewish Cynic" from a landless peasant background, initially a follower of John the Baptist.

      The question of Jesus's literacy has been much discussed in modern scholarship; the Jesus Seminar and others feel references in the Gospels to Jesus reading and writing may well be fictions.

      The only Gospel reference to Jesus writing is John 8:6 in the Pericope Adulterae, widely considered a later addition, where it is not even clear he is forming letters in the dust, and the Greek "εγραφεν" could equally mean he was drawing

      It is very unfortunate that Jesus was illiterate for it resulted in many gospels and epistles being written years after his death by non-witnesses. This resulted in significant differences in said gospels and epistles and with many embellishments to raise Jesus to the level of a deity to compete with the Roman gods and emperors. See Raymond Brown's book, An Introduction to the New Testament, (Luke 4:16 note on p. 237) for an exhaustive review of the true writers of the gospels and epistles.

      Of course, Muslims believe that Mohammed was also illiterate. This way, they can claim that the only way he could have received the "angelic", koranic passages of death to all infidels and Islamic domination of the globe by any means, was orally since he could not read and write. Google it for verification!!!

      July 29, 2010 at 5:06 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @peace2all

      I might take issue with you on that.

      The New Testament was written to "prove" Jesus was the messiah. One of the gospels (Mathew) even states that Jesus rode a donkey to fulfill a prophecy. Hardly convincing.

      The Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, because he did not fulfill all that was said about the messiah. The Christians say he will do what was not done, on his return trip. The Jews say the true messiah will only need one.

      July 29, 2010 at 5:38 pm |
    • peace2all

      @David Johnson..

      Hey buddy!!!

      Yeah..... We don't REALLY know why the new testament was written... we have some theories....... and yes, I am aware of all of the reasons that the jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah...

      My point was using a book to prove the authenticity of God..... You know, basically the same arguments that have been going on here that you and I are constantly going up against...

      Hope that you are well....

      Peace....

      July 29, 2010 at 11:15 pm |
  5. verify

    This "Left Behind" guy says that even Jesus doesn't know the date of his return. Huh? What happened to his omniscience?

    And speaking of omniscience, IF this preacher, Jesus, was "God" and therefore omniscient, why didn't he know how to write? He could have left some real evidence of his existence. But, ah, you say, "He came as a simple man of the times"... Simple? He said he was GOD!

    July 29, 2010 at 2:46 pm |
    • Luke

      verify – Well, he could have brought electricity or medicine to kill germs too, but he'd rather led millions upon millions die horrible deaths for centuries instead. Sounds like a real gem, if you ask me.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:57 pm |
    • Peter F

      Jesus had witnesses who wrote down what they saw and heard from them. Very, very few great historians have actually been present for the important historical events they write about. That's not a reason to denounce the Bible.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:22 pm |
    • verify

      Peter F., Just as I advised Mike, look into the work of Bible scholars, such as Dr. Bart Ehrman and Dr. Hector Avalos, just to name two of many who have researched this book. (Some of their talks are even available on youtube).

      July 29, 2010 at 3:42 pm |
    • Peter F

      And I assume you've read your share of Christian Bible scholars???

      July 29, 2010 at 8:17 pm |
    • Brock Spamson

      @Luke
      Agreed, Just think how many lives Jesus would have saved if he would have said "By the way, boil your water before you drink it."

      August 1, 2010 at 5:00 am |
  6. ttwp

    @Gary: What keeps you agnostic is your willingness not to believe in the living God. I encourage you seek Him out.

    July 29, 2010 at 1:12 pm |
    • Gary

      thanks I will. and take care ...

      July 29, 2010 at 1:16 pm |
    • Kate

      I think what keeps Gary agnostic is his honesty not to pretend something is true without evidence. You are welcome to present some. Your god seems to be lacking in that area.

      July 29, 2010 at 7:27 pm |
    • Peter F

      It all depends on what you accept for evidence. Christians see plenty of it day in and day out, but the non-believer writes those things off as natural phenomena or just part of life.

      July 29, 2010 at 8:00 pm |
    • ttwp

      @Kate: If that's what you want to believe. I believe God's creation declare His glory. Some are blind to the truth that God created everything and do not wish to see this as evidence. We were born into this earth and we many times take it for granted. Sadly some of his creation is willing blind to recognizing this fact and having a relationship with Him. Many times I think of this scripture when individuals say they want evidence:

      "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools...I encourage you to seek God and may His Spirit draw you near.

      July 29, 2010 at 9:28 pm |
  7. TheRationale

    Do people ever learn or are they just stupid? Jesus was "supposed to return" how many times? He never has and never does. Honestly, it's a wonder how people actually buy into this garbage.

    July 29, 2010 at 1:11 pm |
    • Luke

      1) They are that stupid. Scary thought.
      2) He was supposed to return an infinite amount of times, as each true Christian believes he will return during their lifetime, meaning that millions of people have died disappointed over the last 2,000 years or so.
      3) There's a guy in Miami that thinks he's Jesus and he has 100K followers. Apparently Jesus pays rent. Who knew?
      4) Sort of. Humans are rational animals that tend to seek answers to things. Usually, when they can't figure something out, they make something up that fits a narrative. Hence, a stolen creation story. They buy into it because it creates closure. They don't accept the facts in front of them such: The four most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen, Helium, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon. We also know that stars are composed of these things. When they explode, they spray their bits across the universe. Well what do you know? Humans are made of hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and carbon (Helium is inert). Since early humans had no way of knowing this, they just made crap up that made sense. Today we know that we are merely seedlings of dead stars in advanced chemical states. Anyway, this girl is nutso. I'll write her a nice letter on 5/22.

      July 29, 2010 at 1:23 pm |
    • ttwp

      "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist." 2 John 1:7

      July 29, 2010 at 1:31 pm |
    • Mike

      Luke says:
      “The four most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen, Helium, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Carbon”
      Even NASA says:
      "Between 90% and 99% of the mass of the Universe seems to be completely unknown"

      Luke even if you were correct why haven’t we found other signs of human life if we are made up of the four most abundant atoms? If we are made of abundant atoms in the universe then humans should also be abundant.
      Fail

      July 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike – Completely false statement. Nowhere did I say humans would be prevalent. Humans are the result of evolution on this planet and life as we know it takes many forms. Just look around you. All animal life is made up of the same thing, reacting differently to its environment. And your percentages (even if true) are not in-line with my statement. I said they were the most abundant, which they are as evidenced by hard factual data. I believe scientists are currently investigating dark energy/anti-matter, which would be more abundant than the natural elements, and in-line with NASA's statement.

      We have not found life for a number of reasons. First, there might not be any. Second, the vast distances between systems. Even traveling at light speed, we would not exit our own galaxy for 100,000 years. The nearest galaxy is another 1M+ light years away. So, even our earliest radio signals are roughly 100 light years away, a minuscule distance. Additionally, we are dealing with a great amount of time. Life could have come and gone in other systems. Life has only been on this planet for, give or take, a few million or so. We have a universe that is currently dated at 13.7 billion years. Being that, life could have come, died and not come back in a system a few billion light years away. Why haven't we found any? It's a damn big sky, Mike. Nevertheless, we are indeed composed of star dust. The argument arises with how it happened and what chemical reactions occurred. Currently, there are many hypothesis.

      July 29, 2010 at 1:53 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike – And furthermore, what makes you think humans are the central life form? Dinosaurs roamed the earth without humans, and they were composed of the same elements. According to your statement, humans would have been riding dinosaurs around on saddles. Oh no, you aren't one of those are you? You, sir, fail and have demonstrated that you have little to know idea what you are talking about.

      July 29, 2010 at 1:59 pm |
    • Mike

      @Luke look up the statement

      Between 90% and 99% of the mass of the Universe seems to be completely unknown

      It comes from NASA so you are not in line with NASA. Can’t post links here

      Evolution that is the theory that keeps evolving. The last big change came with the find of “lucy”.
      How come we have not seen anything evolve in our lifetime. And if you believe in evolution, that we evolved in to apes, are you not scared that something will evolve into something greater then humans like super humans? Will it be the dolphins, the birds, the cows? If it’s the cows then we are in trouble considering how we slaughtered there race.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:00 pm |
    • Mike

      Luke you missed the point it was not my statement but your statement
      “Well what do you know? Humans are made of hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and carbon (Helium is inert).”
      “Today we know that we are merely seedlings of dead stars in advanced chemical states.”
      And yes your statement is ridiculous because humans did not ride dinasours”

      July 29, 2010 at 2:28 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike – you clearly don't understand math. Said elements can be 10% of what is known, and still the most abundant. In any event, you have seen things evolve in our lifetime. Every time you hear of a virus mutating or becoming resistant to medicine is evolution. A few good examples are TB and HIV, which are constantly changing. On the bigger scale, humans have become much taller overall and we have remnants of useless organs that used to be used as part of digestion, such at the appendix. On the grand scale, modern day birds are evolved dinosaurs. Need more?

      July 29, 2010 at 2:29 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike – I have ask. Are you screwing with me? I honestly can't tell. That rant about super evolved apes and cows – if that is how your brain functions, the entire US education system has failed you and I fear for the future of this country. Seriously? Where did you get this? Were you taught it? Did you come up with it yourself? I'd hit the local library up if you can. Check out the zoology section. Otherwise, good tease bro. I fell for it.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:45 pm |
    • civiloutside

      @Mike: "And if you believe in evolution, that we evolved in to apes, are you not scared that something will evolve into something greater then humans like super humans? Will it be the dolphins, the birds, the cows? If it’s the cows then we are in trouble considering how we slaughtered there race."

      Not particularly scared, no. Firstly, newly evolved capabilties in a species show up in a pretty small population (literally consisting of only the mutation that created the capability and its direct descendants), so it's pretty unlikely that cows would develop some ability that will allow them to supplant us without us noticing while the population of supercows is still small enough for us to control and/or eliminate. But even if it were to happen, it wouldn't be because we believe in evolution – it would be because evolution happens whether we believe in it or not. Just like objects in a gravitational field fall whether you believe in gravity or not. Fear of the consequences of a truth is not a valid argument against it being true. It's just a reason to want it not to be.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:55 pm |
    • Mike

      Not teasing you but putting your statements under the same scrutiny that people place the bible under. Not that this woman in the article is accurately depicting the bible.

      The examples you give are not of evolution. A virus adapting and becoming resistant to that which once killed it is not evolution because it is still a virus. Humans who no longer use there appendix, because they now eat better quality food, is not evolution just a change in environment.

      If I go to the gym and work out I did not evolve into a super human athlete. I just conditioned that which I have.

      To say apes transformed to humans and there are still apes is absurd. Following that logic, again, anything can evolve into anything else. So why put down the theory of dolphins that become smarter and better than humans? It is no more far fetch then evolution itself. I am sure when the apes where just apes they never saw human life coming out of them.

      Yes the education system does fail us as we become more "enlighten" and "deepening" by accepting everyone’s point of view, except the Christian one of course.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:57 pm |
    • Mike

      @civiloutside
      You make probably the greatest agreement for God

      “But even if it were to happen, it wouldn't be because we believe in evolution – it would be because evolution happens whether we believe in it or not”
      Just replace the word evolution with , God, or the Holy Spirit or the Day of Judgment, which not even Jesus or a woman in Colorado knows.
      But we do know that people have confessed to “embellishing” the evolution theory and

      July 29, 2010 at 3:03 pm |
    • Luke

      A virus adapting to change is not evolution, eh? False. Same thing with the appendix. We just don’t need it anymore, so the body adapted. That is evolution. You might want to go recheck the definition of evolution out. Here, I’ve pasted the textbook definition for you:

      Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations. After a population splits into smaller groups, these groups evolve independently and may eventually diversify into new species. Ultimately, life is descended from a common ancestory through a long series of these speciation events, stretching back in a tree of life that has grown over the 3,500 million years of life on Earth. This is visible in anatomical, genetic and other likenesses between groups of organisms, geographical distribution of related species, the fossil record and the recorded genetic changes in living organisms over many generations. To distinguish from other uses of the word evolution, it is sometimes termed biological evolution, genetic evolution or organic evolution.

      You are confusing shifts that take millions of years, such as physical appearance and new species, with the slow natural process of mutation from generation to generation that occurs at the micro and macro level.

      Most importantly, the theory of evolution says nothing about apes becoming humans. Did you fail basic biology? The theory evolution states that we shared a common ancestor, hence why we share 99% of the same DNA as Chimps. Apes, I believe, are a touch less than 99%. I really don’t know what you are saying about Dolphins because it isn’t a coherent thought.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:06 pm |
    • Mike

      Following that defination Derek Jeter, evovled into an athlete.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:10 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike – Do you live on earth? I'm no longer sure.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:21 pm |
    • Luke

      Mike, buddy. Come on now. Being an athlete is not mutation. However, those that are highly athletic tend to pass on genes that make for good athletes such as coordination, enhanced hand eye coordination, excellent balance and great increased stamina levels. It isn't always the case, however.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:24 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Luke
      @Mike

      Mike, you should read Luke's post. He is right on all counts.

      Remember Mike, there are things that science does not know. We don't know what occurred before the big bang. Time itself did not exist. Where did all the matter that was part of the singularity come from? God? Well, where did he come from?

      How did life begin? We don't know. Lots of ideas on this. See articles and texts on abiogenisis. Evolution does not explain how life started. It explains the diversity of life. A lot of people get confused on this.

      But remember, whatever caused life, only had to happen once. As Luke said there may not be life anywhere else in the universe. But statistically, that is not likely.

      Cheers Luke! Good Job!

      July 29, 2010 at 5:16 pm |
    • Kate

      Mike, uh, you do realize that athletes are not a species, nor is Derek Jeter. Viruses come in many kinds, all evolved differently. When some change so much that they can't reproduce with their original kind, that makes a new species evolved from the first. Environmental changes push that, so when they change to adapt to a new environment (some of them) that's a step in evolution.

      That's how it works and I'm sorry, an eighth grader should be able to understand that properly or they wouldn't pass basic biology.

      July 29, 2010 at 7:25 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Mike

      "And if you believe in evolution, that we evolved in to apes, are you not scared that something will evolve into something greater then humans like super humans? Will it be the dolphins, the birds, the cows? If it’s the cows then we are in trouble considering how we slaughtered there race."

      What is scarey, is not "super humans", but a bacteria that has evolved into a resistant strain or a virus that causes a pandemic.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:47 pm |
    • Mike

      I was not stating that Derek Jeter was an example of evolution just trying to get the reader to think and define what qualifies as evolution verse adapting to it envirnoment. Survial of the fitess, which by the way lines up with the bible.

      And why we evovled from apes in to human life and nothing else has evolved, including virus, into something equal or greater then humans.

      Mutation is not evolving.

      July 30, 2010 at 9:47 am |
    • Luke

      Mike – Mutating is evolving. You're just dead wrong and I refuse to argue with you when you so clearly ignore facts in favor of your own narrative. Furthermore, and for the last time, we did not evolve from apes. You continually ignore what people write to you. All living organisms on this planet have evolved and continue to evolve every day. Humans, Chimps and other primates from a common ancestor is a great example. Birds being modern day dinosaurs is another. Virus and Bacteria changing rapidly displays another. Whales and manatees returning to the sea after being land animals are another. At which university did you study your science?

      July 30, 2010 at 10:38 am |
    • Luke

      Mike – None of those pictures are of apes. They are all different species leading to modern man. An ape is any member of the Hominoidea superfamily of primates, including humans. The term ape has been deemphasized in favor of Hominoidea as a means of describing taxonomic relationships. It is certainly lovely seeing that your source of information is a picture found by conducting a google image search rather than a zoology book.

      July 30, 2010 at 12:59 pm |
  8. Gary

    ttwp thanks for the reply ...your posts are what keeps me agnostic and realizing how religion makes no sense.

    July 29, 2010 at 1:09 pm |
  9. Daniel

    Jesus is coming! Look busy! 😉

    July 29, 2010 at 1:04 pm |
  10. Gary

    ttwp, if he knows his destiny wouldnt he be scared of suffering for ever.?..wouldnt he try to stop it from happening?

    July 29, 2010 at 12:55 pm |
    • ttwp

      Why would he be scared of suffering forever? He knows his fate. "...depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41

      And he can't stop it from happening...he was defeated at the cross...and he knows it. That's why he lies, misleads, and deceives God's creation into joining him...once again it appears he's succeeding.

      July 29, 2010 at 1:04 pm |
    • Woody

      ttwp, I assume by the words "everlasting fire", they meant HELL. I've always been curious about Hell. Just where the hell (no pun intended) is Hell located? Somewhere below the surface of the earth? What fuels the fires of Hell? Some advanced nuclear technology? It couldn't be fossil fuels; petroleum couldn't have be around when Hell was created six thousand years ago. Do they have to keep adding additions to Hell, being that the population of the world is ever growing? They'd have to plan for newly deceased sinners. You have to figure that most of us will end up there, so space will be at a premium. What if there's life on other planets, do they have there own Hell below the surface of their planets, or do they ship them here to a centralized location? What about the staff? Do the tormentors work shift work, or do they do 24/7? Can inmates be promoted to tormentors if they show that they're evil enough? Will some Fundamentalist answer some of these fundamental questions?

      July 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm |
    • ttwp

      @Woody: Everybody's different. I'm more curious about heaven. Your sentence that saddens me is "You have to figure that most of us will end up there." Sadly that's what scripture says. When we reject God, he respects that decision and gives people want they desire...eternal separation from Him. And that in itself, I think would be hell. I would encourage you to read the Bible and trust in God. "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your path." Proverbs 3:5-6

      July 29, 2010 at 3:40 pm |
    • NEON whip

      "he respects that decision and gives people want they desire...eternal separation from Him"

      I hear this way too much, and you say separation from him is already hell? I don't see how that's remotely close. Good try, andd.. aren't we already supposedly separated from him? we're not living in hell. you are. unhappy people look for invisible things.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:52 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @ttwp

      If god is all knowing, he would know, even before a person is born, whether he will be "saved" or "damned" if he does not know this, he is not all knowing. If god can predict the future, then he would have to be all knowing.

      So again, what is the point for Satan to persist?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:39 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Woody

      Yeah, I've often thought of the hell in the middle of the earth belief. Even with my great faith, I have trouble with this. Thanks for giving me the chuckle!

      July 29, 2010 at 4:49 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @NEON whip

      Yep, separation from god is hardly being burned for eternity. Good catch!

      July 29, 2010 at 4:53 pm |
    • ttwp

      @David Johnson: Why does satan persists? He definitely trying to harm God's creation as much as possible before his time is up. Secondly which is supporte dby scripture...he is extremely prideful and wishes to set on God's throne. he is a deceiver, the father of all lies and continues to lie. As such, with his constant lying and deception, he has believed his own lies and deceived himself. he has deluded himself and willfully persists in this self delusion. he still feels that there is a chance that he can overthrow God. As what happened originally when he led a third of the angels in an attempted rebellion against God, I believe that he still feels that this rebellion is possible.

      Through self deception and lies about himself satan believes that this may come to pass even though he has been thoroughly defeated and knows it. he is the father of lies because he has deluded himself and willfully persists in this self-heightened delusion. Unlike God, satan cannot peer into the future. Though he is doomed by divine edict, he presses on in the hope that he can ‘beat the system.’ he is apparently looking for some last-ditch escape. he will not find it. Instead, he will discover that the Lord’s plan has blocked his every ploy. The Lord of time has created a remedy for sin for those who accept it.

      satan is a created being and therefore cannot create anything himself. he has eyes but does not see and ears but does not hear. The Lord has to open our eyes and ears so that we may see and hear as we cannot do this ourselves. The Lord has closed satan’s eyes and ears so that although he can see and hear the Word and through the Word recognize that he is going to lose in the end he cannot grasp the reality of this. This in part explains why satan continues to act and behave as he does today. It also explains why many of those who are serving satan act and behave as they do today.

      July 29, 2010 at 8:22 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @ttwp

      You said, "And he can't stop it from happening...he was defeated at the cross...and he knows it. That's why he lies, misleads, and deceives God's creation into joining him...once again it appears he's succeeding."

      Why would a god, who is all good, allow so much pain and suffering? What is the point?

      July 29, 2010 at 10:18 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NEON whip,
      Sin separates you from God; sin is your way of pushing God away from you. It can be eternal separation if you decide not to repent.

      July 29, 2010 at 10:48 pm |
    • ttwp

      @David Johnson: Why would a god, who is all good, allow so much pain and suffering? What is the point?

      I think that's somewhat a mystery. How does God use pain and suffering for his glory and overall good? Scripture states, "that in all things God works for the good of those who love him....even our sufferings. Of course the best example of how God used pain and suffering for his glory and our good is the cruxcifiixation of Jesus. The devil meant it for evil, but God turned it around and made it a thing of beauty, redemption and indescribable love.

      July 29, 2010 at 10:48 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @ttwp

      You said, " Why does satan persists? He definitely trying to harm God's creation as much as possible before his time is up. Secondly which is supporte dby scripture...he is extremely prideful and wishes to set on God's throne. he is a deceiver, the father of all lies and continues to lie. As such, with his constant lying and deception, he has believed his own lies and deceived himself. he has deluded himself and willfully persists in this self delusion. he still feels that there is a chance that he can overthrow God. As what happened originally when he led a third of the angels in an attempted rebellion against God, I believe that he still feels that this rebellion is possible."

      If anyone/anything would know that god is all knowing, it would be Satan. Satan actually lived in heaven. He actually saw the Big Guy. It makes no sense that Satan would not believe god was all knowing. Satan would have to have gone to school in the little bus.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:32 pm |
    • ttwp

      @David Johnson: Of course satan knows God is all knowing. I never said satan didn't believe God was all knowing. Once again I believe from reading scripture that it comes down to pride...his pride has blinded him. To the point that he still thinks he can overthrow God. satan wants to worshipped, he wants to sit on God's throne. God's love is for us..his creation... that was created in His image. satan wants that worship and admiration that belongs to God and God only....the glory is His alone.

      @Woody: I only know what God has revealed to me through his Word and Spirit. That being his immense love for us and satan's lies and attempts to deceive us. As far as Vista you'll have to check with Mr. Gates:)

      July 30, 2010 at 12:10 am |
  11. Reality

    St. Paul predicted JC's return in Paul's lifetime. Still waiting on that bit of fortune telling!!! Hey, Paul made money on it and some people still do.

    July 29, 2010 at 12:54 pm |
    • David Johnson

      Jesus, himself, predicted that some of the people present, would not die before his return. Those people are living a long time.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:43 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      David Johnson,
      Are you referring to Mark, chapter 9:1? (He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.")
      This is the Catholic Church that Jesus is referring to. He would soon be presenting the Catholic Church to them in all its power [the power that the Father gave to the Son is the power He was placing on the Apostles with one, Peter, the Pope, receiving the keys to this kingdom.

      July 29, 2010 at 10:18 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CatholicMom

      I don't know if I agree.
      Mark 8:38 says: Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

      Then comes the Mark 9:1: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

      I think he was talking about his second coming.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:18 pm |
    • Peter F

      I am actually quite surprised to be saying this, but I actually agree with David Johnson on that last point. The "Catholic Church" as we know it today really goes back to about the third or fourth century at best. Anything before that is very uncertain. I am in no way an expert on the passage, but I know that a Protestant understanding of it is that the generation of which Jesus is speaking is the generation of believers in Christ. Before Him there were the prophets and the priests, but Christ brought in a new era.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:24 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      David Johnson,
      I believe that there is more than one dimension of the Kingdom of God.
      When we are Baptized we receive the Holy Spirit. The mark of this one time event in our lives on our souls can never be erased, however, we can lose our closeness with the Holy Spirit through sin. The Sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist bring us back in communion with Jesus Christ. So our soul is also one dimension with that being able to change.

      The Catholic Church is another dimension of Jesus Christ; The Church is His Bride. Such a union is ‘the two become one.’
      The next dimension is that Jesus is himself the Kingdom in Person and wherever He is there shall also be the Kingdom of God.

      So, I believe, that depending on the verse, when talking about the Kingdom of God, it could be any one of the three dimensions.
      Sometimes people state that the Kingdom of God is within themselves and this is true if they are without grave sin on their soul and have been Baptized so I tend to think of the Kingdom of God as His Church or Himself as the Kingdom of God because that never changes.

      The verses of the Bible tell us what dimension is being discussed at that point in the Bible.

      July 30, 2010 at 10:17 am |
    • DustyNW

      Every religion should just write their own bible instead of interpreting what is plainly written into something completely different until it aligns with their ideologies. You can dress a dog like a cat but its still gonna bark. Likewise, you can interpret the bible however you like, but its still a book full of xenophobic hate, ignorance and half-truths.

      July 30, 2010 at 5:12 pm |
    • Brock Spamson

      I love to watch the mental gymnastics performed when someone mentions verses like Mark 9:1. The Bible is like a person, you torture it long enough and you get any answer you want.

      August 1, 2010 at 4:38 am |
  12. GodsHiddenSoldier

    Satan indeed does know the Word of God (See Mt 4:1-11) and he will try to use it to confuse you and cause you to lose faith. That's why we must know the Word for ourselves (2 Tim 2:15, 2 Cor 13:5). If you struggle with faith, then search the scriptures on biblegateway.com and read what Jesus says regarding faith. Whatever our weakness or struggle, the Word of God has the answer (for everything).

    July 29, 2010 at 12:23 pm |
    • Gary

      GodsHiddensoldier , If Satan knows Bible and his destiny why dosnt he change and stop what he is doing? He dosnt want to burn for eternity!

      July 29, 2010 at 12:48 pm |
    • ttwp

      Satan knows he's defeated, but he's trying to get as many of God's creation to join him...unfortunately it appears he's succeeding.

      July 29, 2010 at 12:51 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @GodsHiddenSoldier

      You are missing the point. If god is all knowing and he tells Satan he will lose and be thrown in to the pit in the end, why doesn't he as Gary asks, repent at best or just give up at the least?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:34 pm |
    • Reality

      With respect to Matt 4:1-11: What some experts concluded:

      Lachs [Rabbinic Commentary on the New Testament, 50]:

      The theme that a hero or holy man was to be tested before his career began or before his mission was undertaken is commonplace in the literature of antiquity. Rabbinic homilies on this theme are often based on Ps. 11.5, The Lord tests the righteous, not the wicked. The most notable example of this testing in Jewish tradition is Abraham, of whom it is stated, "With ten trials our father Abraham was tried, and he withstood them all to make known how great was the love of Abraham our father."

      Lüdemann [Jesus, 10] dismisses the tradition as unhistorical:

      The tradition is present only in rudimentary form (cf. by contrast the tradition in Q: Matt. 4.1-11/Luke 4.1-13) and the details can no longer be reconstructed. Perhaps it seeks to depict Jesus as a righteous man, a new Adam (cf. Rom. 5.12-21; I Cor. 15:45-49), who embodies the righteous son of God.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:42 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      David Johnson and Gary,

      Satan already made his choice. He chose to reject God. He already crossed over the line, knowingly and desiring it. His pride is so strong he actually thinks He will end up with more souls than God; what do you think?

      July 29, 2010 at 7:11 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Kate,
      Why do you think I am gullible?

      July 29, 2010 at 9:02 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CatholicMom

      You said, "Satan already made his choice. He chose to reject God. He already crossed over the line, knowingly and desiring it. His pride is so strong he actually thinks He will end up with more souls than God; what do you think?"

      Hmm... Watch! God is said to be all knowing. If he is all knowing, he would know the exact number of souls he and the devil would have at the end game. There would be no point to the bet.

      What bothers me, is that you are okay with it being a bet. Like when god tortured job. You are talking human suffering than can not even be imagined. Would you make a bet with me that more puppies would come to you than to me? And then punish the ones who choose me, by burning them to death? Aren't we even worth a puppy?

      July 29, 2010 at 10:03 pm |
    • verify

      As long as we're talking bizzaro "Satan" myths, what if Satan really inspired the Bible (and all religious texts). Just look at the minions he has garnered! Throw in a little, "love thy neighbor" and "do not kill" ... they'll buy the rest.

      What if the folks who are good for goodness sake, and not for some promise of eternal glory, or threat of damnation, are really the best ones, whom Satan won't have anything to do with.

      July 29, 2010 at 10:21 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @verify

      Be careful brother. You are well on your way to starting another religion! LOL

      July 29, 2010 at 10:29 pm |
    • DustyNW

      Why do we need to have faith? Why is believing in something without evidence good?

      July 30, 2010 at 5:01 pm |
  13. SeanNJ

    I'm getting married on April 9th of next year, and that's something I always said would only happen "when hell froze over."

    So, in advance, to everyone on the planet, sorry. This is clearly my fault.

    July 29, 2010 at 12:06 pm |
    • Luke

      Thanks a lot Sean! Hmph!

      July 29, 2010 at 12:11 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      SeanNJ,
      Best wishes for a happy marriage! You are going to need God so get to know Him now.....

      July 29, 2010 at 7:04 pm |
  14. David Johnson

    I got burned on this when Y2k came around. On December 31, 1999, I put out milk and cookies. They were still there the next day. It's hard to keep my faith in Jesus...

    July 29, 2010 at 11:38 am |
    • CatholicMom

      David Johnson,
      Maybe your faith isn't in Jesus but in people.
      Satan has faith in himself only. Seems I have read on these posts that there are people that have that same faith.

      July 29, 2010 at 12:05 pm |
    • GodsHiddenSoldier

      Luke 18
      The Parable of the Persistent Widow
      1Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'

      4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, 'Even though I don't fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!' "

      6And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

      July 29, 2010 at 12:09 pm |
    • Mike

      @Dave your faith doesn't seem to be in Jesus but the people who misrepresent Him.

      If I told you false things about, Cars would that stop you from learning to drive?
      False things about Canadians, would that give you an excuse to hate candians based on my false data?

      No, so don't play the same game with God. Get to know Him directly.

      July 29, 2010 at 1:53 pm |
    • Reality

      God's Hidden Soldier,

      Luke 18: 1-8 is a single attestation i.e. not found in any scripture other than Luke's gospel thereby making it historically very doubtful. Even if it were true, it is indeed wasting the window's time on prayer/crying out to a god (if there is one) whose hands are tied because of the human condition of free will and future.

      July 29, 2010 at 2:50 pm |
    • Nonimus

      "Get to know Him directly."
      Mike,

      How does one do that? The Bible is at best indirect. Prayers aren't answered.

      July 29, 2010 at 3:20 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CatholicMom

      I still need an answer to my previous posting. I have often wondered about this. If Satan is not an idiot, he must know as you Christians claim to know, that god is all knowing. He would also know, as Christians know, that the bible is the inerrant word of god. The bible says Satan is defeated in the end and is cast into the pit. If an all knowing god predicts it, then it must occur. Why does Satan persist?

      July 29, 2010 at 4:22 pm |
    • Reality

      David Johnson

      Hell is possible would any god tolerate satanic spirits and contaminated souls? (The singularity would not according to Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporary theologian). As per Schillebeeckx, contaminated souls at time of human death would no longer exist.

      July 29, 2010 at 4:36 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      David Johnson,
      Satan knows his fate but he is going to try to take as many souls as he can with him just to show God he can do it.

      July 29, 2010 at 6:04 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Nonimus,
      You are not the only one who is trying to get to know God just by the Bible. What do you think the disciples of Jesus did before the Bible…..those 300 years without the Bible…? They had Jesus Christ’s Words spoken to the Apostles and their successors called ‘Tradition’ of the Church which was and still is what Jesus taught. Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit to the Church to guide and guard it until the end of the age. There were heresies cropping up all along; the Catholic Church decided to gather all the inspired Books together to make the Bible. So today, for the fullness of Truth look to the Catholic Church with Her Tradition and the Magisterium and the Bible. It is like a three legged stool, take away just one leg and your are in trouble.

      July 29, 2010 at 6:53 pm |
    • Kate

      Interesting Catholic Mom, that you have so much insight into what Satan thinks. There's only one way I know of someone honestly able to get that.

      July 29, 2010 at 7:15 pm |
    • Nonimus

      CatholicMom,
      Perhaps you misunderstood my question, going through the Catholic church is still not getting "to know Him directly."

      July 29, 2010 at 8:01 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Kate,
      What is your 'only one way' source? Mine is the Catholic Church.

      July 29, 2010 at 8:48 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Nonimus,
      You didn't misunderstand me…..seek Jesus Christ through His Church and you will find Him.

      July 29, 2010 at 8:57 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Mike

      You said, "your faith doesn't seem to be in Jesus but the people who misrepresent Him.

      If I told you false things about, Cars would that stop you from learning to drive?
      False things about Canadians, would that give you an excuse to hate candians based on my false data?

      No, so don't play the same game with God. Get to know Him directly."

      Bad analogies, Mike. The car and the Canadians are real. I can observe them. I can verify your data.

      Jesus died 2000 years ago. I can not/ you can not observe him. I have elves in garage... Understand?

      July 29, 2010 at 10:43 pm |
    • Mike

      @Dave ok, fair enough,

      Then replace cars with the Roman empire, Napolean, the Chicago Fires, or even the winner of the 1908 World Series.

      July 30, 2010 at 9:29 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Mike

      @Dave ok, fair enough,

      You said, "Then replace cars with the Roman empire, Napolean, the Chicago Fires, or even the winner of the 1908 World Series."

      Dude, these things have TONS of evidence for the Roman Empire. Including, roads, structures and writings. The Chicago Fire was in 1871. There are artist renderings of this fire. The 1908 World Series is well documented. There are pictures.

      There were no eyewitness accounts of Jesus. We have only the New Testament, which was written to "prove" Jesus was the Messiah and establish the Christian religion.

      Do you realize that, there were many "messiahs" in Jesus's time? Google: List of messiah claimants. The Jews were not happy with the Romans. Did Jesus just get "lucky"? Did Jesus win the messiah lottery?

      July 30, 2010 at 11:00 am |
  15. Woody

    Where can I get tickets?

    July 29, 2010 at 11:36 am |
  16. NL

    Apparently she got the date from Harold Camping. I also found a quote by the woman on another site. She says..

    “There are things I felt I always wanted to do — get married, have a kid, travel more,” she said. “But it’s not about what I want out of life. It’s about what God wants.”

    July 29, 2010 at 11:34 am |
    • Luke

      Dude, she's an effing gullible brainless idiot. Why are discussing this? I'm moving on to bigger and better debates.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:37 am |
  17. NL

    I checked my datebook, and I may have to postpone. I have something else booked for the 22nd. I'm free on the 20th, however. That good for everyone else?

    I love the shot of Jenkins' desk with all of his "Left Behind" books shoved forward. Mucho Ego!

    I often wonder why it is assumed that Satan, who is supposed to lose to Jesus on the return, will just stick with the script, bend over and take his punishment? He can pick up a bible too, right? If he is as cleaver as Christians seem to believe then why wouldn't he go off script?

    July 29, 2010 at 11:23 am |
    • David Johnson

      I've always wondered, if the bible is the inspired word of god, and is inerrant, why Satan tries at all. I mean I assume he can read and knows he MUST lose in the end. Lots of things are shaking my great faith.

      July 29, 2010 at 11:41 am |
  18. NEON whip

    i thought tomorrow was supposed to be the return...

    July 29, 2010 at 11:21 am |
  19. cat

    So on 5/22/11, we're all going to die? That's all that means, it's just another world-catastrophy with a nonsensical religion icing on top. Giant Meteors, cloud man returning to take us up with him, 4 horsemen riding down from the sky, it's all a bunch of negative-nelly nonsense that a majority of the US can't see past. gg usa.

    July 29, 2010 at 10:57 am |
    • Luke

      well, you know what's funny? There's a guy in Miami that claims to be Jesus already. And he has 100K followers. Apparently Jesus returned to earth and pays rent on a condo in Miami Beach and pumps his own gas. I guess the real question is, how does he sign his rent checks? Jesus H. Christ?

      July 29, 2010 at 11:03 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Reality

      You said, "Hell is possible would any god tolerate satanic spirits and contaminated souls? (The singularity would not according to Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporary theologian). As per Schillebeeckx, contaminated souls at time of human death would no longer exist."

      I have been ignorant of Father Schillebeeckx. I will find his writings. I think I would like him. Thanks for helping cure my ignorance! Cheers!

      July 29, 2010 at 4:57 pm |
    • foodshark

      Don't worry Cat – He is not here to take you – you will remain on earth...

      July 30, 2010 at 9:38 am |
    • Barry

      No we all are not going to die, only those that have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Why would you want to take the chance.

      July 31, 2010 at 1:36 pm |
  20. Luke

    And on 5/22/11, what will she do and say?

    July 29, 2010 at 10:51 am |
    • Spong

      Wow. I can't wait to see his face when he sees what we've done to this place. I hope we get the Gulf oil spill cleaned up before he arrives.

      July 30, 2010 at 6:14 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.