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My interview with Obama on his Christianity and the 'Muslim issue'Long before last week's revelation that a large and growing chunk of Americans believe that the President is Muslim - and that only about one in three Americans correctly identify him as Christian - Barack Obama was battling misperceptions about his religion. In early 2008, right as Obama was in desperate need of a win in the South Carolina primaries - he'd beaten Hillary Clinton in Iowa's first-in-the-nation caucuses but lost to her in subsequent contests in New Hampshire and Iowa - false rumors swirled that he was Muslim. Obama's father was raised in a Muslim household, though the presidential candidate had repeatedly called him an agnostic, and Obama had spent time attending an Indonesian school where most students were Muslim. An e-mail smear campaign alleged that the White House hopeful was disguising his true faith. In South Carolina, whose primaries were Obama's first electoral test in the Bible Belt, that was a big problem. Less than a week before South Carolina's primary, Obama began calling media outlets with large Christian audiences to set the record straight. His first such interview was with Beliefnet, where I was then political editor. With Thursday's Pew poll showing that nearly one in five Americans think Obama is Muslim, our conversation from 2008 - conducted by phone while the future president sat aboard his grounded campaign plane - has become relevant again. Here's what Obama told me in 2008 when I mentioned the false rumors that he was Muslim:
Clear enough. Obama had almost zero contact with his tacitly Muslim father and had been a committed Christian for decades. But Obama also used our chat to make a case that his exposure to Islam, through his extended family and during his four years in Indonesia, made him unusually well suited to heal the rifts that had opened between the U.S. and the Muslim world over President George W. Bush's war on terror:
He elaborated on this argument elsewhere in our conversation, in comments that would foreshadow his administration's efforts on Muslim outreach:
In recent days, two major themes from my conversation with Obama - misunderstandings about his faith and his vision for improving U.S.-Muslim relations - have become the stuff of national headlines. It was just days before Thursday's Pew poll revealed growing confusion about Obama's faith that he'd come out strongly for the rights of Muslims to build an Islamic center and mosque near ground zero. With the imam behind Park51 - the name of the proposed center - touring the Middle East for the State Department, Obama appears unlikely to back down from his campaign to improve relations with Muslims. Whether he will step up messaging around his religious faith to Christians, as he did in the days before South Carolina's caucuses, is still an open question.
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Still think Islam is an evil, violent religion while Christianity is a loving religion? Try reading the Bible: here are the verses in the Bible that advocate the killing of non-believers:
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
and finally this verse gives reason for the crusades.
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
Indeed, sir.
You do not fully understand Christianity or the New Covenant (ie New Testament). This is a fundamental error that non-Christians make when responding. Yes, the Old Testament and New Testament are each part of the Bible. Christ brought the New Covenant (Testament) to everyone. He fundamentally changed our relationship with God, and the Old Testament (The Law) no longer applies as it did to the Israelites (His Chosen people, for whom Old Covenant was proclaimed). Each and every one of these verses was written pre-Christ, and is part of God's Covenant with the Israelites, his Chosen people. Any true Christian will not stand for murder of fortune-tellers, homosexuals, adulterers, etc. Indeed, when the the woman at the well's accusers stepped forward (the woman was an adulterer), Christ asked who would cast the first stone? And all of her accusers fell away. Please be mindful of the New Testament and Christ's teachings before you demonize us, pick out a few verses from the Old Testament, and act like Christians advocate murder in Christ's name. As to the Quran, I will not comment.
Islam and Christianity share the same roots. What you are woefully ignorant of is that Christianity is found in the "New Testament". You, my friend, are quoting from the "Old Testament". In the New testament, the old laws are declared obsolete, except for the Ten Commandments, which says "You shall not kill" and the one commandment of Jesus, which sums up the law, "Love God with all of your being and above all else; and love your neighbor as yourself." Why are people so afraid of this man, called Jesus, who taught that we should love our neighbor? Very strange. Regardless, you should educate yourself better before going to such work to decry something. You have proven nothing except ignorance.
ere are the verses from the New Testament that quote Jesus explaining that the Old Testament laws still stand:
Luke 16:16-17:
The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. KJV
- Matthew 5:17-18:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. KJV
Even in the more modern, supposedly less-biased NIV, it's made clear:
- Matthew 5:17-20:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. New International Version
@ jb – Actually, Jesus defended the laws of the Old Testament in his teachings. That includes everything Kim J pointed out.
Kim J,
Everything you qoted has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. Christianity started AFTER Christ (New Testament). In fact the name Christian was not even mentioned until the 5th book of the New Testament (Acts). Everything you quoted is from the Law of MOSES (Old Testament) and was directed to the Hebrews and NOT Christians as Christianity did not exist even them. There is a LOT of misquotes and misinfomation on this blog about about TRUE, BIBLICAL Christianity
Christianity was brought upon the world by Constantine I. As a method of controlling the people. Sorry.
Whether a politician is Christian, Jewish, Muslim or any other religion or lack thereof is of NO concern to me what-so-ever and it should not be to anyone else for that matter. I just want him/her to do the job for which they were elected and religion plays no part in that. That's the problem with America, people want politics and religion to play well together and the founding fathers knew that wouldn't work and put safeguards against it. KEEP RELIGION OUT OF GOVERNMENT!!!
No way, BUT...KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF RELIGION
Being a member of a church does not make you a Christian
niether does hatred towards people of any other faith
Definition of Muslim
someone who tries to bring peace by blowing himself up
Definition of a Christian
someone who does not practice what he preaches
That's a fact.
@ (B)iraq Hussein Osama...."Definition of Muslim
someone who tries to bring peace by blowing himself up
Definition of a Christian
someone who does not practice what he preaches"
Probably why there are so many more Christians, the Muslims all blew themselves up. (Sorry...I just had to say that...your post just made me laugh!!!)
Bush LIVED Christianity? Bush "taught" the nation to fear Muslims? I could react to both of these remarks from other commenters, as well as weigh in on what Obama is or is not religion-wise. But the Bible says "judge not lest ye be judged," so I won't.
So you posted something here to say that you aren't going to post something here???
...for with the same judgement you judge, you will also be judged.
Please do NOT misrepresent by taking away from what it actually says.
I actually think they were quoting Metallica??
yes judge not, but we are not idiots...Christ said also "you will know them by their fruits" are we not allowed to know them by their fruits? Call a duck a duck unless you fear judgment.
You are the only one quacking like a duck John.
Yes, we know them by their fruits [actions]. God will judge us by our fruits, too. We must judge actions to know whether they are right or wrong actions....we do not judge someone's soul as that is God's judgment alone.
What does his religion have to do with him serving our Country as president? Is this really news?
Fisrt of all this country was founded by Christian people not Muslim..... All of the US presidents were christian . This is one nation under God and in God we trust !!!!!!!! Therefore our properity and power comes from God thru Jesus.
All the US Presidents have been Christian? You need to do some history homework, sir.
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oscar
Fisrt of all this country was founded by Christian people not Muslim..... All of the US presidents were christian . This is one nation under God and in God we trust !!!!!!!! Therefore our properity and power comes from God thru Jesus.
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oscar? Please learn to read (and write). I recommend starting your reading with the document that our society is built on. It's called the Constitution. The first three words of which tell you exactly where our prosperity and power come from. "We the people."
If this was really a nation under God, you'd think he'd warrant some sort of prominent mention in the Constitution. At most, he's generically mentioned in the date of signing, and what is really there is a specific mention of no religious test to hold office (leaving it open for people of any brand of religion, or lack of religion) and the right to follow (or not) the religion(s) of your choice.
As far as the "one nation under God, indivisible"...that was added in the 1950s by a bunch of folks that were afraid of them "godless commies". It's actually a phrase that divides the nation (it used to be "one nation indivisible"...not even a pause in there).
And the "In God We Trust" motto? Same thing. The original one is "E Pluribus Unum", which means "Of many, one"...an apt description of a nation made up of people with many backgrounds, cultures, ancestries, and beliefs.
And don't bother bringing up the Declaration of Independence. While it's certainly inspirational, our government and society isn't based on our "break-up letter" with the king of England. And even that one doesn't name God in particular...it's a very generic "creator" that gets mentioned.
"Think for yourself, or you will find there are many others who will gladly do it for you."
-One Who Thinks
oscar, you are dangerous. please seek help.
God and jesus appear exactly zero times in the Cons ti tution.
and the 1st amendment to the same document? Our Founders were expressly NOT creating a theocracy.
Read for yourself.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
"terrorists… The whole muslim president fear came from the Bush Cheney years that taught Americans to fear muslims."
So up until GW Bush came along Americans had no fears or concerns about Muslims? GW Bush "taught" an entire nation to fear Muslims?
Please do tell us more silly statements. I am a Orioles fan and I need a good laugh.
That 9/11 incident may have played a small role...tiny...hardly nothing.
Americans feared terrorism before 9/11. Be it domestic home grown extremism of Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kaczynski.
It wasn't until after 9/11 when the government, hand in hand with ratings hungry television media, that we began to think of ALL Muslims as a threat.
I fought along side Muslims in GWB's war of lies in Iraq. You would be amazed at how much hope and peace exists within Islam teachings. And these Muslims I fought with seemed more entrenched in THEIR fight than mine because they were fighting against a dark element that exists within their own religion.
What sucks is that the extremists ruined it for everyone. And with full knowledge that the west would respond with racism and religious prejudice. This response only drives more of the easily swayed and uneducated masses of the youth of the Islamic world to extremism. With our racism and hate, we fell into the trap that the extremists made... and with the GZ Mosque it appears that we haven't chewed our way out of it yet. (which is ACTUALLY about as far away as an already existing 40 year old Mosque that resides 4 blocks away)
The terrorist WANT irrational reactions from us. It helps them meet their recruitment goals and affirms their outlandish claims about our land and culture.
Go study some, relatively recent, history. In WWII, Hitler made an uneasy pact with a very large Muslim force. They didn't trust each other and both planned to take out the other at the end of the war. Fortunately, Hitler and his Muslim allies lost. The Muslim plan to convert everyone on this planet to Islam, or kill them, has existed since the days of Mohammad. In fact, radical Islamists still use the very same propaganda and recruitment techniques they were taught by the Nazis in WWII. Go do the research. There is an informative documentary video on this, called "Commanding Heights", I believe that's the name. Are all Muslims in on this plan? I doubt it. You need to ask them. But the threat of radical Islam absolutely precedes the Bush presidency.
Fear! Americans are pus sy cats, they will fear a little bed bug if enough mattresses get infected. Chickens, its a country of chickens, their idea of an athlete is a fat overweight football player and a spit making fat shapeless baseball player. A country designed to chicken out at the push of a button. They should change its name to United States of American Chicanos. USAC.
@ (B)iraq Hussein Osama....Number 1, if you don't like America so much (actually you probably take advantage of every advantage this country can give you if you are an immigrant or citizen) then why stay here. I'm a born American, have been pretty tired of stuff, and briefly considered moving somewhere else. So if that's the case, perhaps you should do the same, somewhere the people all agree with your assessment of the USA. Number 2...Did no one ever tell you that in an argument it was not good to say "all" as it's hard to prove. I would like to invite you to my little State of Arizona, where the "chicken" citizens here have the right to carry concealed weapons (something I don't agree with), and most likely would be happy to show you their guns on a moments notice if you asked. But just make sure you have your "papers" and that they are in order! We deal with 122 degree weather out here 4 months out of the year, sir....there isn't much we are afraid of here! Come to sunny Arizona and tell me how much you think American's are afraid! One afternoon of driving in our rush hour traffic in 100 plus degree weather will give you another side to Americans! It actually might scare you a little!
No one had to questioin whether or not Bush was a Christian becauce he LIVED it. Obama says one thing to Israel, does another. Obama's speach in Cairo insulted Israel for a reason.
And if ANYONE< ANYONE can tell me what Obama is talking about when he says Muslims contributed greatly to America??
And why the need to say such things, while avoiding the National Day of Prayer?
Everyday I meet people who do not like President Obama because they believe he is destroying our country. I have had BANKERS tell me they believe Obama is a MUSLIM plant, planted to destroy America from the inside out....and they are terrified of the debt he has incured, and lies about.
It really doesn't matter what Obama believes, his actions speak volumns. Let our Christian President- BASH BUSH again, and again, and again, and again. And being the REAL CHRISTIAN THAT BUSH IS, he turns the other cheek.
What was bush an idiot
He turns the other cheek alright. And you are kissing it well.
Bush, Christian??? He was AWOL from the military. Would a Christian do that to his country? He lied repeatedly to get us into the Iraq war. This is proven. Would a Christian lie like this causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands? He left the country in a trillion-dollar debt from that war. Would a Christian do that? He reduced the IRS auditing staff that audited the wealthy, allowing the wealthy to open thousands of Swiss bank accounts to avoid income taxes–$86 Billion in the eight years he was in office. Would a Christian do that? He pushed through tax cuts for the top 2% of wealthy Americans, including himself. Would a Christian do that? He tried to get our Social Security privatized and put into the stock market. Then the market crashed in 2008 with a few making billions. Did he have insider info? Would a Christian do that? He grew government more than any President in history without regard for future generations. Would a Christian do that? The only good thing Bush did was to guarantee, through his ghastly performance as President, that Obama would be elected. Americans were so disgusted with his leadership, Obama was the breath of fresh air we needed. Bush was many things, but Christian was not one of them. Hmmmm. With his connections to Saudi Arabia, could HE be the Muslim???
You mean BANKERS tell you that the President is a plant?! Well, we have to believe bankers...after all, they have our best interest at heart...well, they have our interest at heart...well, okay, they want our interest...from our accounts...but yeah, believe your bankers. If you are so all fired up about Christianity, then practice it by living a Christ-like life. I don't recall anywhere in the bible where Christ acted like a racist...a xenophobe...or pointed his finger in accusation. In fact, I think his whole message was love your neighbor, love your enemies, heck...love everyone.
Sage... shhhhh. You're not helping.
Actually, Bush didn't live it, he presented it. He became a Christian when it was politically expedient and he was interested in Texas politics. He had to be able to sell his brand in Texas, and his campaign manager recommended he emphasize religion to get elected... shucks, it worked on you!
I guess Muslim Afghan farmers fighting a war for us against the Soviets bringing an end to the Cold War in the 80's doesn't matter to you?
Wow, you are extremely unintelligent. Its just sad to see how low the republican party has sunk, and continues to sink. Please quit it with the fear mongering, racist-undertoned lies, and ignorant rambling about the state of Israel, which I can almost guarantee you know nothing about and only love them so much because you've been told that as a 'good christian', you need to support Israel in everything they do, and that they can do no wrong. Time to clean the cobwebs out of your head and start using that thing that used to be a brain.
Right... because BANKERS, who created the financial meltdown with their esoteric home financing schemes and reckless derivatives instruments, are the most trustworthy people in America.
Bush was as much a Christian as was Hitler. Bush did not live the Ten Commandments, did not live the Sermon on the Mount, did not turn the other cheek, did not pay to Caesar what is Caesar"s and to God what is God's, did not feed the hungry, give to the poor, clothe the homeless, or forgive the sinful. Bush cursed who disagreed with him, killed whom he suspected, took what he wanted from whomever, and despised the unfortunate. He will always be an evil man who will get his just rewards when he faces his Maker. To believe that Bush was a man of faith is to be either delusional or captured in his web of evil.
Do you people research ANYTHING before you spew it out? Google it – Obama completely recognized the National Day of Prayer, he just didn't hold an observance. Better yet, I'll do the research for you, since you were obviously too ignorant to do it yourself: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0506/National-Day-of-Prayer-is-on-despite-court-ruling
Even the Christian Science Monitor admits it!
Most of the people in this country don't know what a Christian is,,,,the president is one of them..it's not his fault...most of his enemies on the right down't know either..a Christian is not a Christian because he says he is...A Christian is a Christian because Jesus made him one..many are trying to be so , but will not be able...Jesus said it...Usually a Christian identities Jesus as his Lord and will have some kind of experience with him to back it up..Sometimes people are Christians for many years before they really become real Christians...it's takes time with some of us ...people...:)
I wish he were agnostic. After all the lies and greed and damage done by our previous "Christian" president, I am afraid of any religious leader.
Sometimes people make many mistakes trying to be a Christian..
I agree with you. I would be happy if Obama would declare himself agnostic. I was always worried religious nut Bush, would decide Jesus wanted him to end the world. I could picture bush pushing buttons while that idiot Cheney grinned like the Cheshire cat.
People aren't sure about obama's religion, but his actions clearly show he's no American at heart.
you crazy thing you
Yeah, you got that right! Trying to bring health care to those that don't have it...trying to extend unemployment benefits to Americans during a recession...trying to repair America's standing in the world...what an un-American president we have!
Obama has done more positive things for this country in 19 months that Bush & Cheney did in 96 months.
AMEN
that is amen to clay not those other lamers; AOL must have sprung a leak; Jason –>how about making the largest deficit in US history, and for health care, taking 2 years to do that with a democratic congress? plus we are all going to pay for that mistake, the same disaster clinton made in '92; extension of unemplyoment benefits i agree with; but my real problem with the guy is his muslim inclinations, his incompetence to get his stuff passed and put into place, and his focus....the focus for him should not be health care but rather cleaning up the foreclosure mess and getting people jobs; who gives a crap about health care if nobody has a job to pay taxes to pay for it; and where was the accountability for the big corporations who got a lot of our stimulus money????? why weren't they required to hire? they took the money and ran and obama should be coming out big time about their big bonuses; he took forever to do anything about the BP thing; and Obama takes more vacations than any other president i can remember (and our country is in a worse state than it has been in a long time)....he has played golf more than any other presdient; come on!
Wow. Thick as a brick, aren't you? And what have YOU done for this country?
@ok: "and Obama takes more vacations than any other president i can remember"
Short memory? Obama has taken 48 days off since his inauguration. At this point in Bush's presidency, he'd taken 155 days off. Before his term was up, Bush spent 487 days at camp david, 490 at crawford – 1/3 of his presidency.
If you need to try to remember back further, the prior recordholder for vacations during a presidency was Saint Ronald.
America is in desperate need of a Muslim president! I wish Obama WAS Muslim. Someone needs to solve the 1) Palestinian Apartheid problem and 2) teach americans how to live like humans and not live like pigs (no pun intended). Only a Muslim can do that, because you elected Born-Again Bush and he did the opposite of what is good for America.
I think fear is a big factor in all of this and when fear rules your life then you do and believe irrational things.
Fear is the basis of all religions, and all irrational beliefs. We try to control the universe by believing it to be in a form that we can manipulate by being good enough, brave enough, or simply by exterminating or converting anyone who believes differently. The truth is that these hopes are futile, and only by working rationally together (controlling world population, reducing pollution, slowing global warming) can we progress towards a more prosperous future.
I disagree. Fear might be the basis of SOME world religions, but not the basis of all. Hindus and buddhists are NOT taught to fear their god, or anyone elses. You do something or learn something because YOU want to.. not because you might go to some sort of "Hell" for NOT doing so.
I think perhaps that there should be some sort of HALT put on all religions that seek to do 'conversion' to others. Its a ridiculous point of view. If people want to seek philosophy or religion, then that is THEIR choice... its NOT yours imposed upon their will.
Personally, I voted for Obama, because I had hope that he would lead this country OUT of war, and towards spending money on US, the American Populace. HE has tried to do so with his universal health care and with other things. RepubliCants just rail about the USA losing its defense spending, or not spending enough money saving our corporations. Sorry, but I would rather put our money and our faith in each other, rather than in the hands of corporations... Especually because corporations have already sold us out, moved their factories abroad to China and other places.
You want to talk about being anti-American?? Why dont you blame the corporations who have moved their businesses and factories abroad? As far as I am concerned, Ford is not patriotic. None of the auto makers are. You think that Chinese products are superior?? Go feed some melamine milk to your kid!!
Why does it matter what religion he is? He says he his Christian, so just believe he is Christian, if he starts praying 5 times a day toward the Mecca, then question it
He came out and said build a mosque; he has been quoted in his book that he will stand by muslims over americans; and maybe he does pray 5 times a day towards mecca
@ok That is because he believes in the Constitution – Freedom of Religion, remember that part? If you don't stand by that, then YOU are unAmerican and unpatriotic. Apparently you rightwingnuts only stand by the parts of the Constitution you agree with, like the Second Amendment.
Exactly. What does it matter if he was a Muslim? The same hysteria gripped a lot of ignorant people with JFK because he was Catholic. The crazy birthers insist he wasn't born in the US. Hawaii became a state in August 1959 and Obama was born in 1961. That makes him an American no matter what the silly birthers say.
he didn't come up with the idea to build a mosque. he defended the right to build a mosque. different. the president isn't in power to promote a specific religion he is there to protect the rights and freedoms of our citizens. whether the mosque is in good taste or not is irrelevant...they have a right to build it. i oppose the construction of any more catholic churches since they are a haven for child molesting priests. but you know what, they still have a right to build more churches.
@ok: "He came out and said build a mosque;" Um, no. He came out in defense of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. That thing he swore to uphold, remember?
I tire of people who wave the constitution around only when it suits them.
@ok: "He came out and said build a mosque"
He did no such thing.
He defended and upheld the United States Constitution, first amendment and all.
ok, what page and what book do you reference? Because Snopes has your rhetoric debunked.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp
@ OK...President Obama simply was stating that legally, the mosque can be built where it's proposed to be built. He didn't ask that it be built, or seek out anyone to build it. Also, he has not said he would defend Muslims over Americans, but American's right to worship does extend to Muslims who are Americans....most of those on the project are Americans of Islamic faith. So he is defending Americans and not Muslims. I believe he said that his upbringing gives him a perspective on Muslims.
fearful...? Have you read the koran in the original arabic?...trust me...it's not irrational fear...it's a religion of over a billion people on this planet...and it most emphatically seeks to dominate and destroy most of what we in the west take for granted as normal civilized behavior...
...as to "government controlled" healthcare...are you serious!?
Have you ever tried to work through government beauracracy in ANY field and found it to be more...efficient...economical...or capable of anything but growing more inefficient and economically burdomesome?
have you read the bible? plenty of murder and destruction in it also ... hint – read the old testament
Have you read the Koran all the way through is original arabic? Do you remember every word? Can you translate it?
Government Healthcare? When was the last time you didn't spend 45 minutes to over an hour waiting on the phone for a private companies customer service help line? When was the last time you paid $100 for 15 minutes of someone's time and felt like you got your money's worth? Or when you pay $1,500 in healthcare premiums (if you are lucky) and don't even use it? I mean the private industry doesn't have 300 forms for you to fill out or anything, and they are so easy to understand...
@Nobody. Have you read the Quran in Arabic? I doubt it. All of it in any form? I doubt it. The Bible? I doubt it. That said, Islam became as widespread and powerful as it is because (at least in its initial form) it was an aggressive and militaristic philosophy. Any non-factual belief system is vulnerable, nay certain, to being taken over by manipulators interested in power.
@MOP & Jalloh. Amen.
rigel54: nice star system name. I can tell you're way, way, way, way, way out there ... and stay there and leave us alone.
Just what in the health care bill gives government "control" of healthcare? Stumped?
Our President is American. Beyond that, his choice of religion, whatever it may be, is not particularly relevant. Separation of church and state means more than 'You can't hang that religious symbol in the firehouse'. The question should be "Can this man lead our great nation?" I, a lifelong Republican, believe he can.
Accusing the President of being a Muslim might make him more of a Christian....:)
thomas Jefferson made the statement about keeping a "wall of separation" between church and state. He did not mean to keep chuch/religion/Christianity out of government, but rather to keep government out of the church!
Of course knowing the religion or religious beliefs, or lack thereof, of a president is important. That gives insight into the psyche or make-up of the individual. Believing as a Christian that God has granted rights, not man, makes those rights untouchable. If they are "granted" by man, then they can be taken away by man.
Obama has long simpathized with muslims. read his books. His mother was hardly a practicing Christian in the conventional sense. Obama spent 20 years listening to the hate filled vitriole spewed by Jeremiah Wright. Wright preaches Black Liberation Theology. Look it up. There are many videos on youtube about it as well. It is eye opening. As Obama spent all those years there, it is easy to assume that he agreed with what was being said. Obama is the consumate charismatic promulgator and liar. If our media had done its job exposing Obama's religious beliefs , this man would not be in the White House now.
"They" will use whatever they can to discredit him. And when they can't find anything immoral about him (skeletons in the closet, so to speak), they will just make up whatever scares people the most, and that is Muslims. Secondary to that is that he was born in Africa, which would mean he isn't as "white" as they would like to think either. I wonder what the next thing will be?
Oh, he 'can' lead this country. It is just that a majority at this point do not want to go where he is leading us.
Hillary – where did you pick up this drivel – was it your prize in a Cracker jacks box?
Jefferson didn't mean to keep church/religion/CHRISTIANITY out of the government, he meant to keep the government our of church?!? Where the hell did you go to school.. at the 700 club?
Firstly, there was not mention of CHRISTIANITY in the discussion of the separation of church and state – that is quite obviously something YOU added... and of course, it's because YOU are Christian.
So, apparently, it is important to know what our President's religion – oh, my apologies – whether our President is CHRISTIAN. I see... as if all Christians have the exact same view on the issues. But of course, everyone in YOUR little circle shares the same hatreds, don't they?
WOW... it amazes me how ignorant some of the posters here can be. It really puzzles me as to how they can find the forums to post on them!
Hillary, I disagree on every point.
The right wing really did a number on the people of this country. F*ing retards, fearful of healthcare as much as they fear terrorists... The whole muslim president fear came from the Bush Cheney years that taught Americans to fear muslims. It's all so stupid. I don't know how the reatrded Right will ever be fixed when they are allowed to lie and manipulate using FOX News protected by Free Speech.
Amen...said the athiest.
So you aren't afraid of terrorists?
Judging by your love of four-letter words and ' retards' you are a card carrying Democrat, aren't you? If you are not an orphan ask your parents to wash your mouth, with soap.
Ignore George, Unaware, & Felix they are fraught over fear of themselves.
@unAware: good luck getting your obviously necessary psychiatric care once obama-care kicks in.
Have you EVER seen an efficiently run government program? not at the federal level.
Funny, I missed the part where Bush/Cheney were spreading hatred of Muslims 30 years before they came into office.
read a little history, take your meds, try not to sound so tough by using b@d l*nguage. And as a lefty, should you be more sensitive that to use the "R" word like that? How insensitive of you!
George Bush did not start the fear of Muslims.... When MUSLIMS flew two aircraft into the World Trade Center, One into the Pentagon and another crashed due to Fighting Christian Americans.... I developed a rather large concern for the Muslim religion. Further Muslims strapping bombs to themselves and detonating them in crowded places and two additional attempts by Muslims to blow up US bound aircraft..... Yes there is a fear of Muslims, but it is based on FACT and REALITY.... NOT ANY FEAR INSTILLED BY G. Bush.
I seem to recall the 72 Olympic games in Munich. There was a very nasty terrorist act committed there. and who was it by? the Norwegians? no that wasn't it. The Red Cross? no, not them either. A radical splinter group of the Girl Scouts of America? no, not them... Oh Yes... it was Muslims.
Unaware and the rest of you paranoid idiots – It's like FDR said, "the only thing we have to FEAR is FEAR itself!" I was living in NYC that particular Tuesday morning, and I was not anymore afraid than when they tried to blow up the WTC in 93 (remember that?). There is absolutely nothing to be afraid of as long as you live in the middle of Kansas, Wyoming, Alabama, or one of the 47 states that the terrorists will never attack because they figure that living there is probably punishment enough, aside from the fact that there is nothing to blow up there. That is, assuming that guys from Montana don't get the itch again anytime soon. Remember the Unibomber and OK City? The Christian Extremists who live in that flat void between the Rockies and Appalachians scare me more than any Muslim ever could. Really, you have a better chance of dying from a Salmonella contaminated egg than some religious wacko from the other side of the world.
"Unaware, So you aren't afraid of terrorists?"
Why should I? you might as well bury your heads into the sand if you're so afraid of them. I'm more afraid of what the sun can do to us, our own consumption patterns, and natural disaster, and of course religions.... than what the few terrorists, that create false fears among us. Fearing them means giving them too much respect that they don't deserve. Bravo freedom. Bravo capitalism.
The Republican ultra right wing, led by Fox News and sister Palin, is totally illogical, irrational and display a serious lack of any understanding. Driven by their ideological beliefs, they are busy spilling poison and hatred into the environment and tearing apart the social fabric of this country. While on one hand, they cry about getting their constitution back, on the other hand they deny the same constitutional freedom of religion to others. From the day, Obama was sworn in, he has been a thorn for these ultra right wingers and tea drinkers. Rational and logical Americans have to confront such idiots. At the same, not one responsible Republican leader has come forward and issued a statement condemning such heinous disregard for freedom of free speech and religious beliefs. They are sitting back and hoping that all this drama will play to their advantage, and let them bag a few more seats. God bless America.
No unaware, I'm not afraid of terrorists. The odds are that I will be killed by a god fearing christian exercising his 2nd amendment right to murder 10 or 15 people long before I ever set eyes on a terrorist of the muslim persuasion.
Unaware, by terrorist you mean Islamic extremist, no I am not afraid of them, I am assuming I am more afraid of my own government (less so now). How many innocent Americans have Muslim extremist (all Muslims for that matter) killed directly or indirectly (you can not count the Americans that invaded their country they are not considered innocent)? Lets count all of the Sept 11 victims, roughly 3,000, now, how many Muslims have Americans killed directly by dropping bombs or bullets or indirectly by selling arms to both sides of an Islamic conflict or prolonging a conflict by supporting that side that best favors American interest instead of the interest of the local population, I would say that number is too high to count. Terrorism is a hard term to define, if you define it then most countries are terrorist states including America. Now who is more dangerous the America or the terrorist?
Whether or not one is a Christian, it is important that the truth be acknowledged. In this case, your article provides no evidence or anything convincing that supports the case of Mr Obama being anything but Muslim.
When Mr Obama openly declares that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and his personal Savior, then we can believe he is a Christian. Until then, the documented evidence that he is Muslim stands firm. There exists a plethora of documented cases, including videos, of Mr Obama quoting from the Koran, using the words, "...and the Holy Koran says...' No Chiristian would do this. Only a Muslim would quote from the Koran in such a manner. Your skills as a reporter are either severely lacking or you are attempting to assist in further deceiving the people of this country.
What I would really like is for CNN or Fox to stop telling me what I should "know" or believe. The reality is the president walks softly on this issue and thats what causes this confusion. His quote, "Let me just sort of be as clear as possible ..." doesnt stand tall. Let me be sort of clear? What is he afraid of – why not say unequivacably he is a christian – in whatever form he belives? Add the writers OPINION "Clear enough. " and you are telling me what to think.It is not clear enough, which is why the confusion is there and growing.
Simply present the FACTS and I will decide for myself if the iinformation passes the smell test – and in this case it does not.
Corporate news will feed you whatever it is they want you to buy. So we must expose ourselves to a broad range of viewpoints spanning from far left to far right. We must do this even if what we read challenges our firmly held beliefs. Some might view this as dangerous but the outcome will be one of two conclusions; we either change our opinion because we became better informed, or our opinions become firmly rooted and informed.
Informed opinions are stronger than biased opinions any day of the week. So we must all play devils advocate with ourselves. Trust NO ONE with your opinions... NOT EVEN YOURSELF!
TRULY become informed. Do not just hand over your convictions over to one ideology or another just because it feels good to be agreed with.
I agree with you 100% it's cnn who's keeping this stuff up at the president.
If Obama had expressly and "clearly" stated he is Christian and not Muslim would you believe him then? Probably not... no, not probably, surely (and yes Shirley if you like).
Who cares what religion he is! It does not matter!
@Whocare5. I think I managed to get what you were saying in your ramble. I don't know what you mean by treading softly. Obama has repeatedly said in no uncertain terms that he is not a Muslim, and that he is a Christian. It shouldn't matter, but since many American are religious bigots (preferring their own fantasy to anyone else's, fair enough), it does, politically.
I agree that this subject is ridiculous and respectable news organizations shouldn't be near this with a hundred foot pole but your idea of presenting the facts and letting the reader decide is just not possible with this "issue". This is why people who want to attack the president for there own reasons use this issue for a debate. Its because you can not prove it one way or another.
Its like walking up to someone on the street and say prove to me your not a racist. The person can rationally respond and explain why they are not a racist by pointing out example A, B and C but it won't satisfy the accuser because they can simply respond with "you're lying. " Its not about rational debate any more its about attacking your opponent so ridiculously that they simply can not win.
And your comment leaves me sort of clear that you are clueless.
@Dave Newton... well said!
He can spent money, time and effort to clarify himself, which he did, but at the end of the day, you can still invent new things for him to prove himself. To you, he's not an American even when he shows you his Birth certificate, you want him to prove that it's real, he proved that it's real as even the GOP governor proved that it's genuine.... but still people want him to show his "original" birth cert.... he might have lost it.... or misplaced it, but he got one from Hawaii... but no matter what he does, you can still say that he dares not prove his citizenship. This Muslim case is still the same.... no matter what he says, you guys will always ask him to prove... you can film him attending a church, film him pray to God, film him baptizing, whatever, at the end, there's somehow someway to prove that he's a Muslim.... he said this many many times... I'm also getting tired of him trying to prove to me that he's not a Muslim. Why don't you guys try to stop all these nonsense and focus on his policies? Oh, by the way, don't push me nonsense again when you try to prove that he hasn't done anything... you're slapping yourself again and again... you hate his "socialist" policies, and said he has done nothing... how can this be? It's like attacking him for attending a black church whose Reverence spoke nonsense about America, and he did nothing, yet you guys say he's a Muslim? Can you guys make up your mind and stop wasting time on these nonsensical stuffs?
Perhaps the President treads lightly on this issue because it's none of your damned business! If it were I, I'd tell you to go to whatever your version of hell is – I supposedly live in a free, religious tolerant society – and my religion is just that – MINE. I personally don't believe that he is Muslim at all – it is quite obvious that he and his family are Christian. But as I am not Christian – I don't really care WHAT his religion is. I am much more interested in what kind of PRESIDENT he is...
In this article Obama is quoted as saying "And I've been a member of my church now for almost 20 years and have never been a person of the Muslim faith." What is unclear about that statement?
srsly, who gives a crap if he WERE a Muslim? I don't see anywhere where it says that the President of the USA can't be Muslim.
Muslims are not extremists. If you think they are, then your logic also says because of Eric Rudolf, David Koresh, and Timothy McVeigh that all Christians are extremists as well.
It's nice to hear a hint of rationality in an obvious era of lies and distortion about the president and the Democrats and the Muslim world. I'm sick to death of the fear culture we've been living in since 9-11. THAT is what is empowering the lunatics of Muslim faith who despise us and lash out in such horrific ways.
Actually you might benefit from a little research on the subject. I am amused by those who say that Islam is a peaceful religion. It may be peaceful, as long as you are a Muslim and of the same sect, and not a woman or homosexual. then you are SOL
McVeigh was agnostic at best. Rudolf and Koresh were wackos.
More to the point: Muslims have a history of terror bombing for the past 4 decades, not Christians.
@Elliot – perhaps you should research what happened in Northern Ireland a bit before you offer your opinion next time – lots of terrorism, and not a muslim in sight...
Exactly–what about the bombing of abortion clinics by Christians?
I don't believe any of those gentlemen proclaimed to be Christians...so your point is? Besides, proclaiming what you are and living the life of what you, are is obvisously night and day. Some may say you're an idiot...but that may not be true...
I think it's amazing that certain christians talk about how muslims want to kill everyone and when it's pointed out to them how christians kill people they say "those aren't REAL christian, those people are crazy."
Why does it only apply to their positions? Why is the "default" muslim to be crazed and suicide bombing? I would argue that the muslims that are killing people aren't REAL muslims... that the murderous jihadists are the crazy ones.
@ Mikiejoe: Yes, many terrorists HAVE claimed to be Christians.
Elliot Carlin: incorrect. Extremesit muslims have been involved in terror bombing, not muslims in general. If you go through the years, you'll find a lot more atrocities perpetrated by "christians" than "muslims".
There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world!! Are they ALL terrorist??? Ah, sounds more like only a 'small rock' on a mile of sand on the beach are!!!
Why should a president of the us have to prove his faith in any way? It is a private choice and should not be a vehicle for okaying the president!
Some of us are "all of the above" advocates. That's about as American as you can get!
All of the above is erotic anyway....
I agree. Cheers!
David Johnson, Sorry to refute your "errors", but my God stills stands. See burn quran article. Certainly has been an honor to debate such an individual of obvious superior intellect.
douch bag
seems all the 1 in 5's are responding...spell check anyone?
if he were to let his muslim ways influence his decisions (this assumes he is a muslim, which he may or may not be), that is when it becomes our concern. He may not call himself a radical or socialist, but look at his actions. if it quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. a radical, socialist, muslim duck.
He should not have to disclose his faith.
Exactly, Rosejean.
Here in Canada I've seen a few Prime Ministers enter and exit office in my lifetime, and I can't tell you what religious beliefs any one of them held, if any, nor do I care. In the US it seems to be the #1 prerequisite. You A'murrrkins are an odd bunch.
Because the republicans have nothing else. They have been such a total failure when in control they have nothing to run on by mud and lies. Many are stupid enough to fall for it but those of you that see it and know better, really need to consider the damage to our country today's GOP is continuing with their Jihad on America.
I know....as a Canadian it is frankly both amusing and astounding to watch the debate over religion in your leaders. Couldn't tell you what religion PM Harper is – don't care. We also don't know much about his wife or children – and again – most of us don't care. His job is to run the country, not be my mentor for religion.
I am happy to see Canadians here letting Americans know how much it doesn't matter about the President's religious beliefs. I've seen many blogs from people outside of USA and it's a shame how they see things much different than we do.. This makes you wonder – WHAT ARE WE ABOUT?????????????????????? We claim we are about diversity and yet – NOT!!!
Mikey,
Harper hides a lot of things about himself, which are some of the things you bring up. Harper and his wife a separated. She had an affair with a RCMP officer assigned as security and then left him. The Conservatives love hiding their issues. Just like Toews, a man of 37 years of marriage, inpregananted his 18 year old assistant. All of these are known but no one reports on them because of the wrath of Harper.
1 in 5 Americans believe President Obama is a Muslim. About the same percentage believe that in World War Two the United States and Germany fought together against Russia . I don't want to get into what those beliefs say about what,
If, for arguments sake, I agree with your WWII assertion; it certainly has more to do with the school systems in America today and the fact that they don't teach history. The religiosity of this president and its clarity has nothing to do with the school systems and everything to do with his portrayal, or lack thereof, of what he believes.
1 in 5 Americans haven't even earned their high school diploma. That means 4 out of 5 are with the program and wondering why this trash is even being reported? Obama's far-left corporate overseers here at CNN are angry I suppose after the Wall Street Reform?
Stephan, do you, when you go about your day at work and in the world, have to answer for your religion in this free country?
Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.
Let us not confuse things here. you try to make a connection that the 1 in 5 for this obama issue are the same people who believe in the ww2 issue. That is a fallacious argument as you premise is flawed. though there may be some overlap between these two groups, you cant lump them all together like you are trying to do. Else you might have to lump in the 1 in 5 Americans who believe in ETs buzzing/probing farmers who also believe that obama is a christian. See, easy to do when you don't let sound logic get in your way.
@Peter... So you are saying that since most Americans are morons (which I will grant you), that the 1 in 5 who believe obama to be a muslim must be the smarts ones. Got it!
Enough with the political positioning! I did not vote for him but he is still the President of the United States. That office requires a leader but he seems intent on campaigning instead of taking a principled position. If he would do that, others and myself would respect him even though we vigorously disagree with him.
Unfortunately, it seems evident that he is to afraid of angering one faction or the other to take a stand. It sure would be nice to hear him declare that while the Ultimate law of this country prohibits the government from interfering in Religion, it is an affront to the families of those who died on 9/11 and an assault on the patriotic spirit of this country to have a mosque built that close to the twin towers. It is regrettable that radical Muslim killers attacked this country by flying planes into our buildings and sickening that they wrapped themselves in the Muslim religion to justify their actions. The American people would be less angry regarding this if the non-radical Muslims were denouncing and publicly expunging the radicals from their religion.
Stephen Jim is right on point. Education teaches a person to think in a logical, perceptive and analytical manner. Unfortunately with the attack on education from right wing conservatives many of our citizens cannot think logically so they tend to believe misinformation and opinions as real facts. The President in no way presents himself as anything other than a christian but ignorance will not allow some of our citizens to see the truth.
Well said Anthony
Madrasah literally translates from Arabic into school. If we thought Madrasah as an Islamic Institution, then we're also saying that Notre Dame is a Catholic religious university that teaches nothing but Catholicism. Sometimes, ignorance can easily be cleared by reading up a little bit more. I thought the Republicans were attacking Obama when he SAT IN FRONT OF REV. who spoke on Anti-Americans stuffs? And doesn't that confirm that he's a Christian (you like it or not)? Then how come the same group of people now made him a Muslim? Come on guys... make up your mind!
AL, it is not that the education system is under attack by "right wing conservatives", students are being ridiculously under-educated. No reasonable person can look at the test scores for all the states and not see there is a big problem. Being one of those "right wing conservatives" I don't attack the education system – I teach my 3 children in addition to what they get in school. The problem begins at home. Apathy and being 'too busy' is unacceptable. Parents must get involved in their childrens education and stay involved. Just firing under performing teachers will not correct anything.
As for the 20%, there is very little trust of anyone in government. I believe the same number holds true for those who believe the moon landing was faked, professional wrestling is not scripted, and Jimmy Hoffa is buried under Giants stadium.
@Stephen – I think you meant to refer to the President's religious beliefs, but the term religiosity refers to just HOW religious a person is, and has nothing to do with the type of religion they practice.
Perhaps you should take another look at the US school system as it pertains to your schooling as well -
No Mr. Kidd, you don't get it. There are many reasons why a person can be stupid, and there are degrees of stupidity. Believing that our president was not born here is just one of them (a common belief among people who think Obama is Muslim). But recognizing that most Americans are dumb does put you in the top 50% of the class. Now if only we could teach you about grammar and spell-check, you might just make that elite top 20%.
if obama is muslim who cares. last time i checked (i.e. 10 minutes ago) we all still had freedom of religion
Americans are getting stupider by the day. Some Americans actually think Sarah Palin and Glen Beck make sense...The Democrats have to just move forward and do the things that are in the best interest of the morons.
Lastly, even though he isn't, I wouldn't care if Obama was a Muslim.
Anthony C, news flash! The mosque already exists at that site, and Muslim prayer has been going on there since before the bombing (during which 400 Muslims were killed). No one (including Jewish and Christian groups that endorsed the building of the community center, which will include a larger prayer space than the one that exists) made a stink about it until the far right (to which you apparently listen eagerly) seized on the political issue and made it into a "trophy mosque at Ground Zero." So in effect, you are demanding that these people be rounded up and moved from where they already exist. Does that sound like something to be proud of? President Obama's job is to defend and promote the values in the Constitution, not to tell religious groups where they should or shouldn't be. The level of ignorance is on par with the level of bigotry, now made acceptable by your right wing punditry.
To Anthony C. I should have said the way and what we teach our children is under attack from some right wing conservative politicians. They have forced some school districts to to teach "creationism" as a fact and discredit real scientific findings such as global warming as "junk science" in favor of some politicians opinions as real science which has never been proven in any empirical study. A good example is Texas who has actually banned certain books because they did not have the right ideology.As a conservative when you supplement your children's learning do you also teach them about the rich history of what minorities have contributed to the growth of our country? Do you teach them analyze both sides of an issue and debate the merits of each side of an argument? This leads to an appreciation of other Americans and an ability to logically come to a conclusion based on actual facts and not become zombies to any one political ideology or doctrine.
I don't think he's a Muslim, but I do get a very agnostic vibe from him. How the hell should we know.
To AL I have taught all of OUR history. Unlike some, we explore all avenues and analyze all contributions to history, science, mathematics, and the arts. I have not nor do I downplay any individuals contribution. We do avoid generalizing individuals into groups unless the group is pertinent to the subject matter. In other words, we are ALL Americans.
Impersonal as posts like these are, I will not take offense to your assumption regarding my heritage (Cherokee, European, & Asian). Conservatives are't just one stripe – we are individuals.
Since this is not an appropriate forum for a deep scientific discussion, I will only say this: We have analyzed the data regarding Global Warming and have agreed that we were recently experiencing a warming trend however, when you actually plot the recorded temperatures from 1880 to present the cycle of warming was not as long nor as intense as that from 1920 to 1960. With a cooling period during the 1970'2 to the mid 1980's it appears we were and still are experiencing Natural warming and cooling periods. For reference (Instrumental_Temperature_Record_NASA and Global_Cooling from National Academy of Sciences both available together on wikipedia "Global Cooling"). Note 0 celsius on both graphs and the inexplicable shift downward of the 1880 -1970 temperatures (0 celsius being mean world temperature). If you assimilate the raw data (too many sites to reference but all available online at accredited sources) you can plot and graph the temperature readings in a line graph yourself. You wind up with a fairly stable trend with warm spots and cool spots but no discernible uptick as has been reported. One mark of a conservative: If you do not know it to be a verified fact, verify it yourself.
Hope I cleared this up for you.
@anthony - there are some right wing folks who most certainly are attacking the educational system. In my state (Nevada), the Republican up for election (Sharron Angle) wants to get rid of the department of education here and feels if she isn't elected, that her supporters should use their second amendment rights against Harry Reid.
Who cares what someone's religion is. He's not an elected religious official. At least he's not saying that the country is on a "crusade" against the middle east. After seeing what "good Christians" are like? I wouldn't want him to be one. They're rude and nasty individuals, hell-bent on doing whatever they can to make the lives of non-Christians miserable.
Peter: I could be wrong but you seem to believe that you are part of that elite 20%. For now, let's pretend that you are part of the elite group. If so, then I hope you're not in a position of power as it seems that you talk down to the people you believe are below you. There are many ways to convey a message and it's unfortunate that you choose to be so condescending. To anybody with any experience with psychology, your insecurities shine brightly through your post. There are more important things in life than learning how to spell check, i.e. learning how to be respectful to other people, learning to articulate your thoughts without calling people "idiots". I feel sorry for people who are mean online because they "think" they can get away with it. Truly, good luck with your life.
Valerie As you can see from my previous posts how nasty a christian I am as well as how hell bent I amon making non-christians' lives miserable. Regarding Sharon Angle, I believe she is correct. The Department of Education does not educate one child our local schools do. The system is broken and continuing to throw money at the problems haven't worked.
I wish that everyone would remember that we ARE ALL AMERICANS. We just have differing opinions. Just because I am passionate about my beliefs doesn't not make you a bad person for disagreeing. I hope you feel the same way.
Inevitably, it is through heated debates that the friction of competing ideas create light and not just heat.
Ms. Angle's comment about exercising second ammendment rights was apparently tongue in cheek and a metaphor for the depth of her passion. I don't know her personally, she seems like an everyday person who believes strongly in her opposition to Harry Reid and the policies he supports. Until she does something kooky, I would take that comment with a grain of salt.
Why do good folks like you say you could care less about Islam and Muslim beliefs? History tells us that Muslim-led forces conquered many parts of the world and told their conquered, "Either convert to Islam or die." They have no use for those non-muslims they call, "infidels." I believe that based on history and current events world-wide, ALL Muslims would, if they could, force every one of us "infidels" to either convert or be beheaded. Remember Daniel Pearl who was beheaded by Islamic terrorist Al-Qaeda? And of course, the majority of Muslims here in America would NEVER say such things, BUT, their core faith and beliefs are contrary to what they might openly say here in English.
Now you say, "Well, that isn't what the Koran really says," and you could probably find English verses from the English Koran to prove your point. But wait, those verses are TRANSLATED and those who translated the Koran from Arabic into English did not and would not translate EXACTLY. And why? To purposefully hide the real intent and purpose of the goals of true Islam.
They talk long and loud about tolerance and religious freedom here in America. OK, that's fine. But let's try to go to Saudi Arabia, Irak, or Iran and try to pass out Bibles or Christian literature and try to start Christian missions that would grow into Christian Churches. What would happen? We would either be jailed, killed, or disappear. Right? Now how's that for tolerance and religious freedom? The reality is they speak with kindness and sweetness here, to trick us, to dupe us into believing that they are different than how we perceive they are. But the real truth is just the opposite. Their goal is to convert the entire world to Mohamedism OR to kill off ALL who would oppose them.
And Mr. Obama, although he SAYS one thing, his ACTIONS speak to show he is, in fact, not a Christian, but rather, a closet Muslim doing Muslim bidding as he has opportunity to do so. Every person, no matter who he is or where he lives wiil SHOW FAITH BY HIS ACTIONS OF LIFE, NOT WHAT HE SAYS. ACTIONS REVEAL ONE'S RELIGION. Our President will NOT salute the U.S. flag. He cancelled the most recent Prayer Breakfast in Washington, but in fact held an Islamic/Muslim breakfast in Washington, and even took off his shoes, and bowed to the floor to pray with all his Muslim brethren. His administration has sent the famous Iman from New York, the one who is pushing for the construction of the 911 mosque, on a State Department paid trip to extoll the virtues of Islam here in the States and to try to recruit Arabs to leave their countries and move to the U.S.
I could go on and on, but remember this: ALL I need to know about the Muslim faith I found out on 9/11.
I didn't vote for obama and when somebody asked me what i thought about obama being pesident i told them it would be an interesting next 4 years and i didn't see him getting re elected... looks like what I saw was true... I think mccain would have done a much better job than the non american muslim president we have now.
@ Bill – Actually Bill...you might consider a reading comprehension class for the next section of your GED course work. What I said...and I quote "The religiosity of this president (that would be what you accurately described, which is what I was saying...but good job for knowing the definition) and its clarity (which would be the ability to see WHAT faith he follows) has nothing to do with the school systems and everything to do with his portrayal (this would be how he SHOWS it), or lack thereof (because he DOESN’T show it), of what he believes."
Though my post graduate degree in mathematics has nothing to do with English, grammar and whatnot, my contributions to a number of publications seems to keep my writing inline.
Ron- all you need to know about Islam you learned on 9/11? Then you learned that for over a century America has gone into these Muslem countries and paid off leaders to have control of thier oil. that the reason we have the problem we do with Iran was caused by the corrupt Shaw toppled in 19977. That as americans we seem to think we have a right of entitlement to everything, everywhere.
What we experienced on 9/11 was the reaction of a group that felt much the way our founding fathers did about how they were being threated. the difference is America was under Britsh rule so in essence what we had was a civil war of independence resulting on what the South had hoped for in the mid 1800's
We as Americans should not and must not force our way of life on other countries. We would not tolerate here, they have every right not to tolerate it in thier homeland. Corner animal and it will attack.
Ron-
His administration has sent the famous Iman from New York, the one who is pushing for the construction of the 911 mosque, on a State Department paid trip to extoll the virtues of Islam here in the States and to try to recruit Arabs to leave their countries and move to the U.S.
I could go on and on, but remember this: ALL I need to know about the Muslim faith I found out on 9/11.
It was teh Bush administration that sent him. Endorsed by FOX news Beck and oriely at the time. You would know that if the people telling you the rest of the story had any intention eon telling you the truth. You have been played and lied to on this one .
Should we hold it against Obama that his religion touts such childish notions as a talking snake and a pregnant virgin? Or should we just agree that it really doesn't matter what religion, including none, a person claims? Isn't religious freedom supposed to be important in this country?
I cannot figure out why anyone would think he's Muslim anyway, unless they paid absolutely NO attention to his campaign, all the controversy over the church he had been going to for 20 plus years (Christian) and the pastor (the controversial part) who was an outspoken person about a lot of issues. I think if we were to question anything, it was his patriotism (since the pastor seemed to be anti-America sometimes in his statements), however, he distanced himself from that particular church not his faith, due to the controversy, and that was well covered by the media at that time.
Before anyone tells me that Obama is patriotic and I shouldn't have said he wasn't, just to clarify, I didn't say that Obama was unpatriotic, just that if we were to question anything regarding his religion, since he went to a Christian church with a pastor who said some disparaging things about the US, I think there were people who were questioning that instead, not his being a question. Just wanted that particular statement in my post not to be misunderstood!!!
A few observations based on what has been posted so far (caveat, I am Canadian):
1) There is nothing in the US Constitution, that says the President must be Christian, Obama is not Muslim and even if he was, so what?
2) The Islamophobes say that only Muslims kill and bomb, but when Koresh, the IRA, McVeigh are brought up, they are just "wackos", not Christians...Koresh thought he was an incarnation of Jesus and the last time I checked, Jesus was a part of Christianity, and Northern Ireland was Catholics vs. Protestants with bullets and bombs. The Crusades were Christians vs. Muslims SLAUGTHERING EACH OTHER...not just Muslims killing Christians, why else would there have been several Crusades?
3) People say that Middle-Eastern countries act against other religions, that is because they do not have freedom of religion, the West does, however, and that is one thing we have over those other countries. Just because other countries do not practice freedom of religion, does that mean we should not as well?
4) The Anti-Obamas are freaking out that he will destroy the Constitution, but there he is saying the mosque in NYC is free to be built AS THE CONSTITUTION SAYS and those people freaking out are willing to cast aside the Constitution but they are more than happy to accuse Obama of wanting to destroy it.
5) You anti-Obamas complain that he kow-tows to OTHER HEADS OF STATE...are you telling me that if you met the Queen of England or the Emperor of Japan, or the RULER of some other country, you would not bow to them? Then all of you who complain about this and are Christian should not kiss the hand/ring of the Pope or any Cardinals.
6) You complain about him apologizing for America's actions...you guys raked France over the coals for not going to Iraq and it turns out they were right, meanwhile in those intervening years, you went out of your way to belittle and mock France, would you not apologize to your friends if you blasted them and it turned out that you were wrong and lied about eveything? For the record, I agreed with the US move to Afghanistan, the facts were correct and there was plenty of reason to go in, and if you righties forgot to notice, EVERYONE agreed with the US on Afghanistan, but not everyone agreed with Iraq, and there was no reason to go in and it turned out that they were right and you were wrong. The resources wasted in Iraq, could have been put to better use in Afghanistan.
Joseph Kidd is an idiot. Mr. Turner was merely making a parallel argument that it is as ridiculous for 20% of Americans to believe Obama is Muslim as it is for the same percentage to believe that the U.S. fought with Germany against the Soviet Union during World War II. I think I speak for a majority of the thoughtful participants in this forum when I say, Mr. Kidd keep your infantile reasoning to yourself, go to a tea party rally wearing an outlandish outfit, and assuming you are of voting age, cast your lot with the likes of Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, while the rest of us adults set about rectifying the ills perpetrated on this country by the last administration.
I believe Obama's relegious believes is the less of our worries how do we have faith in our political parties when they fight and argue like 3 year olds and both parties cater to thier own private venues and doesn't care what the American people want ... if they would shut up and listen to the people who voted them in they would be better off ... I am not a Educated man but doesn't take one to see thier lil self profit venues they vote on evryday...
What is the REAL issue here is Obama has done such a poor job of defining his religious beliefs that so many people believe he is a muslim. The journoList media cabal actively protected Obama from the Rev. Wright "God Damn America" controversy which was swept under the carpet and never really vetted by Americans.
Most people believe Obama's involvement in Rev Wright's church was simply the correct political move to gain local favor. .Who can honestly believe the man Obama knew for over 20 years, who was his father figure and mentor, married him and baptised his children, sat in his church for 20 years and NEVER heard Rev. Wright give one of his many radical "God Damn America," or 9/11 was "America's chickens coming home to roost" or even darker that AIDS was a 'disease of the white man to kill the balck man.'
In Obama's radical circles and to the far left anything religion is a non-issue.............these are the same folks who had no problem with Clinton getting a BJ on the job, at the office under the desk you and I paid for...........the journoList media protection of Obama with the Rev. Wright issue is coming back "to roost".............and predictably the far left labels this issue and 1 in 5 American as dumb..............predictable.......very predictable.
Before the poll Obama said he has never been a Muslim, but in his biography he tells how he got into trouble because he was grimacing during the Koran teaching.
http://www.kathtube.com/player.php?id=7782
Anthony C.... You should run for office. I mean that.
Isn't it cute? Half this country watches black and white fake movies and thinks they are real. Take a good guess which half that is. I hate it myself. I can't even find people that can spell much less know their history. Around election time its just plain scary how stupid people are and how easily they are misled by hateful propaganda. I like jimmys response, what about Rev Wright? we have the attention span of a monkey. Go figure.