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August 30th, 2010
10:58 AM ET

Catholic Church defends male-only priesthood

Barring women from being Catholic priests is not the result of sexism 2,000 years ago, it's because women cannot fulfill a basic function of the priesthood, "standing in the place of Jesus," a leading British Catholic thinker argued Monday.

"This teaching is not at all a judgment on women's abilities or rights. It says something about the specific role of the priest in Catholic understanding - which is to represent Jesus, to stand in his place," argued Father Stephen Wang in a statement sent out by the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales.

It's rare for the Catholic Church to defend its fundamental positions in this way.

Wang was responding to the announcement that campaigners for female priests will plaster posters on London buses next month during the pope's visit to London.

The ads read "Pope Benedict - Ordain Women Now!" and will be on 15 double-decker buses running in some of London's main tourist areas, including Parliament and Oxford Street, said Pat Brown, a spokeswoman for Catholic Women's Ordination (CWO).

The group spent "in excess of 10,000 pounds" ($15,500) on the ads and is hoping donations will help make up at least part of that cost, Brown told CNN Friday.

Wang rejected both the tone and the content of the ads, saying that while an atheist ad campaign last year was "hesitant and ended with gentle exhortations," this one ends "with a shout."

And it's based on a fundamental misunderstanding, said Wang, the dean of studies at London's main seminary for Catholic priests, Allen Hall.

Pope John Paul II declared in 1994 that the church has no authority to ordain women, a position confirmed a year later by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict XVI. At the time, Ratzinger was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the arbiter of Catholic Church dogma.

Wang called the late pope's position "surprising," saying John Paul had meant he did not have the power to change "something that has been such a fundamental part of Christian identity from the beginning."

The bottom line is that Jesus chose 12 men - and no women - to be his apostles, Wang argues.

The choice was "deliberate and significant, not just for that first period of history, but for every age," Wang says.

Men and women are equal in Christianity, he continues, but "this does not mean that our sexual identity as men and women is interchangeable. Gender is not just an accident."

He compared the role of a priest to that of an actor playing King Arthur or British soccer star Wayne Rooney in a movie.

"No one would be surprised if I said I wanted a male actor to play the lead," he said, admitting the analogy was "weak."

But, he said, "it shouldn't surprise us if we expect a man to stand 'in the person of Christ' as a priest, to represent Jesus in his humanity - a humanity that is not sexually neutral."

The Catholic women's group says that in addition to its bus campaign, it plans to hold a vigil September 15, the day before the pope's visit, outside Westminster Cathedral.

The group also plans to demonstrate at Lambeth Palace, the official London residence of the Archbishop of Canterbury - the head of the Church of England - during his meeting with the pope.

And members plan to hold a banner along the route of the popemobile, the secure vehicle which carries the pope, in London.

Pope Benedict plans to visit England and Scotland September 16-19. It will be the first state visit to the United Kingdom by a pope, according to the British Foreign Office. John Paul's trip in 1982 was officially a pastoral visit.

CNN's Richard Allen Greene and Melissa Gray contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Anglican • Catholic Church • Leaders • Pope Benedict XVI • United Kingdom

soundoff (1,334 Responses)
  1. shelly

    When Jesus was hung from the cross it was three women and one man who had the courage to stay with Him. The other eleven men fled in fear (or shame) and stayed hidden (or killed himself). It wasn't until Jesus appeared to them from behind their locked doors they found the courage to walk in the open.
    Fearful men will always hide. They hide behind locked doors. They hide behind violence. They hide behind bigotry. They hide behind religion.
    They elevate themselves by stepping on the backs of their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. Only the bravest of man has the courage to stand next to women and do what is right. Doing what is right and just are the lessons Jesus came to teach us from our Father.
    Those who have eyes will see and those who have ears will hear. Sadly like our always having the poor with us, I fear we will also have the blind and deaf.

    January 25, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • k

      You're right in that women (notably Mary) were bravely at the feet of Christ at his death. This is, of course, why we in the Church hold Mary and many other women in such high esteem (note: we don't worship them, that is reserved for God alone). But in the Catholic Church the job of a priest (who is not merely a minister) requires that one act "in persona Christi" at the moments of the consecration, absolution, etc. in the various sacraments. They're acting in the very person of Christ – a man. Hence, the indelible mark conveyed in Holy Orders is, by definition, only available to men who are called to that life. This doesn't mean women are "not as good as men" or anything of the sort. It simply means that men and women were created for different, complementary functions.

      June 24, 2012 at 9:54 am |
  2. DinoF

    How come there are no women playing in the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, NCAA football and basketball, etc....? How come males and females have to go to different restrooms? Where do the gay people go? How come there are no male cheerleaders in the NFL. They have them in college football. How come women don't have to sign up for the draft? How come the TSA makes women frisk women and men frisk men? I'd rather have a pretty girl frisk me then a man. How come there are no women playing in Serie A, bundesliga, etc.(that's soccer leagues for you who don't know)? And they always separate male and female in Olympic and World Cup sporting events. I wonder why? I mean it's the 21st century...I can't believe that sports are sooo behind the times. NO MALES CAN BECOME PRIESTS BECAUSE THAT"S THE WAY JESUS WANTS IT. So, Forget about it.

    November 29, 2010 at 6:47 pm |
  3. DinoF

    If the bible says that priests should me male, then so be it. People just want to attack the catholic church. Leaders in the church do make huge mistakes, but the church as a whole is absolutely correct on every single thing it teaches. For those of you who disagree with us, go ahead and disagree. Hopefully you will see the error in your thinking. Do some studying and research, then post your comments. I would love there to be women priests, but that can't happen...just like there can't be women nuns. God had his reasons for only allowing males to become priests. We just have to accept what he wants, and believe that it's for the best. I mean could you imagine if someone like Sarah Palin became a priest...OMG!

    November 29, 2010 at 6:30 pm |
  4. a.k.a. ybs

    This story is a proof of morality & compassion without Christianity, or for that matter, any religion. "Police arrest man, then give him bike" @http://bit.ly/ismoral

    These folks don't need the "in god we trust" "under one god" "so help me god" crap in their face!

    September 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm |
  5. ybs

    This true story is a proof of morality & compassion without Christianity, or for that matter, any religion. "Police arrest man, then give him bike" @http://bit.ly/ismoral

    Do these folks need all the religious subjugation crap - "in god we trust," "under one god," "so help me god?"

    September 11, 2010 at 12:03 pm |
    • ybs

      http://bit.ly/ismoral

      September 11, 2010 at 12:05 pm |
  6. Believenotmen

    I think that was a very good writing,myself. I saw nothing wrong with it. Yes, I agree with you on most of what you said. However, you must believe in your heart (Behold I stand at the door and knock) you must answer, confess you are a sinner and ask forgiveness, (Salvation) and then be Baptised. Of course we know it is by the grace of God we are saved.
    I believe good works must follow (faith w/o works is dead, but works do not save you. You cannot do works and buy your way into heaven. (for it is by Gods grace, again, lest any man should boast.)
    I think it is safe to say, both of us pretty much agree on most issues. I think now its time to get back on the threads and try to convince the athiests. It was nice talking with you. God Bless!
    i am aware of all Satans devices, and know he can quote the bible front to back. He is not even an issue for me. I am aware of the principalities and all that good stuff

    September 8, 2010 at 4:51 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenotmen,
      Yes, it was good getting to know you! I hope we can stand together against untruth when we come across it. See you then………..

      September 8, 2010 at 8:12 pm |
  7. Believenotmen

    @CatholicMom

    I am sorry, I agree with you! Actually, that was the wrong link I gave you. I folder somethings to use as examples of ways we are not to be. I must have hit the link to post that by accident.
    I will go to my folder, and try to find the one I was the one I intended to use. Again my apology. I was wonderin what the heck you were talking about.lol!
    Here si the link I meant to post
    http://www.xenos.org/teachings/topical/parables/gary/parables-8.htm

    September 7, 2010 at 6:16 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenotmen, .....I read the new site as you requested......

      ‘and you have to ask Jesus to come into your heart and make you God's child.’…is what the article said. This is not a good writing, I am sorry to say.

      You seem to know more than this writer, actually. You understand that we are a child of God because it is He that gives us life. Everybody is a child of God not by asking God to make us so.

      You seem to know that Baptism is crucial to our salvation because it is through Baptism that we receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ did not command the Apostles to go out to all nations and Baptize everyone for no good reason!

      It is here where the sheep and goats parable comes into our understanding. Once we are Baptized we have Christ who is in us and wanting us to do the Father’s will because it is really the Holy Spirit at work through us! The Holy Spirit does not sit idling the day away….but wants to do good for the glory of God, our Father! If we are Baptized and then do not do the Father’s will we are no different than the devil who believes and does not do the Father’s will.

      So the goats say, ‘What?, when did we see you and not do for you?’ and the goats cannot understand how they neglected their days by not doing the Father’s will. The sheep say, ‘What, when did we see you and do for you?’ and the sheep are surprised that they were doing the Father’s will all along by caring for all that need our attention daily and do this work without complaining but with joy in our hearts for the love of God.

      This is why it is crucial to help mission work around the world because they can be our hands and feet, bringing Jesus Christ to the poor and downtrodden. Those who have been sent out to do the work are crucial to the work that Christ expects to carry on in this world through us. By our supporting them we also have a hand in the work. We can also work locally doing works that help the poor here in our own communities but we must help all in every way we can.

      September 8, 2010 at 3:21 pm |
  8. Believenotmen

    @CatholicMom

    Thanks for your response.
    you said:

    It always seems so funny to me that all protestants who are either Lutheran or splits off Lutheranism, say, ‘You Catholics are following man!’ But Catholics are following Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. This is the House of God, as in……
    I think where we are disagreeing on this is because you see the Catholic Church as the one and only "church" that God spoke of in the bible, and I do not agree. The "church" as I see it, is the body of Christ of ALL believers (meaning they have met the conditions the Lord put forth) regardless of what "church" they attend..providing they believe in the Trinity, Baptism and Salvation, the standards.

    You said:
    Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict, is the present Bishop of the Church of God, as in ………………….

    Acts 20:28, "Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock in which the Holy Spirit has placed you as Bishops, to rule the Church of GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood."

    The House of GOD is Built by GOD. Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18, Acts 20:28
    The House of GOD is Only one House. John 17:21……not 35,000 houses…

    I totally disagree again, the POPE today, is NOT the pope Jesus spoke of., but to the ones he was addressing at the time.
    House of God is built by God, and those35,000 other houses you spoke of, are the priests, pastors, your pope, revereneds, etc, that are in a postion of leadership over Gods flock.
    To say they are ONLY Catholics, is not true. The same Holy Spirit that ministers to you, is the same Holy Spirit that speaks to other Christians that are covered by the Blood of Jesus, and to say it is not, is to call Jesus a liar.That is what I was making reference to when I said that you are condeming OTHER Christians to hell.

    You say:

    The House of GOD is the Bride of Christ. John 3:29, Revelation 21:2…..without stain or wrinkle or any such thing……..do sinners have stain or wrinkle or any such thing?
    Of course not. Are you saying that anyone outside the Catholic Chorch are sinners? We are ALL sinners, and fall short of the Glory of God, thus Salvation. , and that includes Catholics.

    You say:
    The House of GOD is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. 1Timothy 3:15…….it is the Church, not the Bible The Pillar and Foundation of the truth...the TRUTH is God, and the Bible is the spoken word of God. Self explanatory.

    You say:
    The House of GOD is Offering Sacrifice All Day, Every Day, and in Every Place. Malachi 1:11 ……Only the Catholic Church does this.
    I know. Thats because it is stuck on the old testament. A NEW covenant was made between man and God, thus Jesus Scarifice on the cross. He is and was the total sacrifice, we do not need to make sacrifices anymore and burnt offerings and things.

    September 7, 2010 at 8:22 am |
  9. Believenotmen

    ok posts are posting strangely!

    September 5, 2010 at 11:42 am |
  10. Believenotmen

    Today is the 5th, I have responded CMom..go about 70 posts back/

    September 5, 2010 at 11:39 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Yes, it is the 5th and I will try to fit a post in as soon as I am able.

      September 5, 2010 at 4:56 pm |
  11. Believenotmen

    CatholicMom

    Believenot men,

    If you care to really know what the Catholic Church is about there is a free ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church’ just google.

    Your hatred is very deep and I am sorry that you feel so strongly that you have condemned me to hell for being a member of Jesus Christ’s body and the Church that He founded. Since you don’t think it is the Catholic Church…which is it?

    Jesus did die so that all might have life everlasting but you are so wrong if you think that you have a guaranteed spot in Heaven. If you are doing the Father’s will and following the path Jesus has set down for us, you have a very good chance of getting there. Why do you think the Bible says things like….endure until the end….hold fast to the Traditions I handed on to you…..for in hope we were saved…..their end will correspond to their deeds….????

    What does the parable of the sheep and goats tell you?
    Let me address your issues, one by one
    I already know what your Catholic Cathecism is about. I have read it, I attended Catholic Church as a child, went to Catholic school. I read the Catholic bible. Everything Catholic made me look, (when I got older and was not satisfied with what they were saying) in the bible that was not Catholic, did not comtain the books you have. I asked God to show me his truth. He did. Thats why I left the Catholic Church
    I witnessed so many things in the school and the church, that were anything then "Christian". I recall our nun in the second grade, smashing a kids hands with a pointer. Her sin? She did not answer a question loud enough for Sister to hear her. She had her place her hands on the edge of the desk, and proceeded to come down upon her knuckles with a mighty blow. The kid screamed and cried, but to Sister Marie's surprise, the kids mother was out in the hallway, waiting to get her as lunch was approaching. The mother ripped the door open, grabbed the kid out and cussed Sister up one side and down the other. Never forget that one,
    I also recall another kid that didn't bring a bag of candy for a Christmas party, and she was made to sit by herself at a desk in the classroom, while we had our party. She got nothing. I tried to give her a candy, and got caught. She pushed me into a blackboard, and I joined the other kid in the corner, after Sister of mercy Marie, took my candy away,too. I was being "disobient"
    Shall I go on?
    There was much.
    Not to mention, those who had to take a backseat in the church, due to the c-o-lo-r of thier skin.
    They had no problem taking money from them when the plate was passed. Pathetic.

    Regarding your next comment about condeming you to hell..and my hate
    I condemed you to nothing, thats not my job. I am only saying that you blindly follow a man and what he deems to be the right he has, (given him from God, according to you,) to lead you to a place that could place you in hell. If I am not mistaken, when I read the popes "rights" under the Catholic Church, it says "even if he were to believe Satan, and do Satans bidding, you are still to listen as he has been given this "infallibilty" from God. Does that not ring a bell of DANGER for you? Does that sound like Gods will?
    Why do you say I am hateful, just because I am warning you to get out of there? Did God not say, "Come out from amongst them?" Why do you always assume that a person is hateful, if they do not believe in the Catholic Church as you do? YOU are quick to condemn everone to Hell, if they don't follow what YOU believe..as in all those "other religions" as you put it..remember?
    You said If its not the Catholic Church thats the true one, which is it? I think I made it clear, the true church is made up of all people, that have accepted Christ as thier personal savior, baptised, and following his footsteps as he instructed. Them that are doing what he said..feed the poor, help others, , but that shouid come as aprt of what we would naturally do , (but does not mean we are saved by works)and Love, being the greatest of them all.
    God never said he would build the church on Peter, he said Upon this rock I will build my church..God was that rock. Read the other scriptures and you will see that all thru the bible the "rock" is Christ..not peter.
    What is your decision? Will you take God at His Word and give honor to the only true Rock and Head of Christ's Church, The Lord JeTurning to the Old Testament we find the following:

    The Lord is my ROCK, and my fortress, and my deliverer. My God, is the ROCK of refuge. Psalm 18:2, 94:22.

    God was their ROCK, and the high God their redeemer. Psalm 78:35.

    Unto Thee will I cry, O LORD, MY ROCK; Psalm 28:1.

    Bow down Thy thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be Thou my strong ROCK, FOR A HOUSE of defense to SAVE me. for Thou art my ROCK and my FORTRESS; therefore for Thy name's sake lead me, and guide me. Psalm 31:2,3).

    I will say unto God my ROCK, why hast Thou forgotten me? Psalm 41:l0.

    Lead me to the ROCK that is higher than I Psalms 61:2

    He Only is my ROCK and my salvation; He is my defense; I shall not be moved. In GOD is my salvation and my glory: THE ROCK of my strength, and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times, ye people, Pour out your heart before him; God is a refuge for us. Selah Psalm 62:6-8

    To shew that the Lord is upright: He is my ROCK, and there is no unrighteousness in Him. Psalm92:15.

    but the Lord is my defense; and MY GOD IS THE ROCK of my refuge. Psalm 94:22.

    O Come, let us sing unto THE LORD; let us make a joyful noise to THE ROCK of our salvation. Psalm 95:1.

    The stone which the builders refused is become the head of the corner. This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. Psalm 118:22, 23.

    Therefore thus saith the Lord God: Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Isaiah 28:16.

    Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto OUR GOD! He is THE ROCK, His work is perfect: for all his ways are judgement: Deuteronomy 32:3,4.

    Then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed THE ROCK of his salvation. Deuteronomy 32:15, 18).

    sus Christ Himself? Or will you take man`s word for it that Peter is that rock?
    And he said: THE LORD IS MY ROCK, and my fortress, and my deliverer II Samuel 22:2.

    For other foundation NO ONE can lay, but that which has been laid, which is Christ Jesus. (I Corinthians 3:11)

    And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and THAT ROCK WAS CHRIST). (I Corinthians 10:4).
    DOES IT GET ANY CLEARER WHO THE ROCK IS???

    Jesus said to them, "Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejectcd, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?" (Matthew 21:42) (Compare with Psalm 117:21, 23)

    For they stumbled or the stumbling-stone, as it is written, "Behold I lay in Sion, a stumbling-stone and a ROCK of offence: and whosoever believeth on him (Christ) shall not be ashamed." (Romans 9:33)

    NOTICE 1Corinthians 10-4

    Now re: thier end will correspond with thier deeds...
    TAKE NOTE:
    If we say that our salvation is based on serving the poor, then we are directly contradicting what Jesus and the apostles teach—namely, we can never earn God's acceptance by our good works (Galalatians 2:16). Rather we receive God's acceptance as a gift (paid for by Jesus' perfect and finished work) by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works (like the ones mentioned in Matthew 25) are a result of our salvation and not a condition for it (Ephesians 2:8-10).

    Finally, you ask what the parable of the sheep and goats tell me?
    Here is an excellent write on what I believe
    http://www.be-ready.org/sheep.html
    In conclusion, I hope I have answered your questions. I am sorry if I offend you, that is not my purpose. But as stated in the link I gave you, it is my duty before God to speak to my fellow christian, sister/brother, if I feel they are in danger. I have done that to the best of my ability and to what I understand that entails.

    September 5, 2010 at 11:29 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenotmen,

      You were able to post a nice long one; I hope I can get through answering yours and have it post also.

      I am sorry you have such horror stories to tell about your nun teachers. Those that did such things that you tell about should not have been teachers. If they caused anyone to turn from the Church, they have done even more harm than they know besides other untold mental and physical hurt. The individual that perpetrates sinful acts against another are in desperate need of repenting and penance.

      My education was in public school and I have horror stories, too. I still have lead in my arm from an attack and the teacher did nothing about it. I also had teachers ridicule me in front of the class many times and those painful events are just memories now but they did help mold me into who I am today.

      As a teacher I became as a mother hen to the persecuted, those who were poor and didn’t have all the nice things that kids wish they had; the ones who came to school without both socks on, who hadn’t had a bath for ages and smelled to where no one would play with them….those are the ones who I made sure got hugs and attention. But I didn’t single them out, I hugged everyone so it was never obvious.

      I could write a book as I am sure you could, too.

      But it did not make me keep my kids out of public school. I believe sins are an individual deed and that a whole system should not be condemned because of the few. The few need to be dealt with, with appropriate action.

      You say I have condemned people to hell which is absolutely not true. There have been so many posts where I had to remind people that we are not to judge people’s souls because that is only God’s place. We are not to judge our own soul either…it is still His job whether it is your soul or mine. No, I have never condemned anyone; if I have, please copy and paste it and post it as I honestly don’t think I have. We are to only judge the rightness or wrongness of actions or words to determine if we should do those same things or not.

      Once we are Baptized we are now expected to work! Yes, because it is now Christ working through us; we can do nothing without Him. You do know that you must DO the Father’s will, don’t you? How do you do that without working? You do know that the devil believes in God our Father so just believing makes you no different than the devil! The devil refused to do the Father’s will…..in other words, their end will correspond with their deeds. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all that they might have life everlasting…..He opened the gates to Heaven which had been closed since the Fall of Adam and Eve….He has founded His Church, He has established the Sacraments to help us….He has done it all for the LOVE of us and we can’t even do the will of the Father to show we love Him back?

      Yes, God was the Rock, but you do know that He told the Apostles that all power was given Him by the Father, right? He then passed that power on to His Apostles and said that as the Father had SENT Him so He was Sending them. He gave the keys to Heaven to Peter as the Head of His newly founded Church. Not only does Scripture call Peter the rock, but it also calls Abraham the rock, in Isaiah 51:1-2. Also, who is the Light of the World? Jesus Christ is in John 8:12, but yet the Disciples are in Matthew 5:14. The words "Rock" and "Light of the World" are not limited to describe GOD alone.

      I haven’t read you recommended site yet but I promise I will; hopefully tomorrow after I can some tomatoes.

      Thank you for your patience with me; I am only doing this because I am concerned for all of my brothers and sisters as you are.

      September 5, 2010 at 11:23 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenotmen,

      I read the site you posted about ‘sheep & goats’ but have to say it is way off from the Truth.

      Every person is a child of God [thus abortion is a slap in the face of God]. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves and we are not to ask if they have been Baptized first. The seal of Baptism is on the soul and not on the forehead of a person and so we just encourage everyone to become Baptized but we do not stop loving them if they are not Baptized. Who did Jesus convict of sin while He walked this earth? He told us that it is Our Father who art in Heaven who does the pruning, not us.

      That writing was the worst thing I had ever read regarding how to treat our brothers and sisters…..to say that we should not help those who are not saved except in a mere moment..... if you should be there to pull the knife out of his heart that someone else put there, so to speak, but don’t go out of your way to help an unsaved person! This man who wrote the article is trying to have it both ways. Ridiculous!

      Next time there is a natural disaster and Catholic Relief Services or say Meals on Wheels [Catholic, by the way], goes to help…..how would you feel if they said to the natural disaster people…make two lines for this aid/service…..one line…. ‘you that are saved’ and all others ‘you who are not saved’…. and then only help those who say 'they are saved'....how ridiculous! Or for Meals on Wheels…. ‘No, you cannot have meals on wheels because you are not saved!’ This is so unchristian there are not words to explain how wrong that thinking is. You are judging everyone’s soul and that is not your job!

      This is just major twisting of the Bible beyond comprehension!

      September 7, 2010 at 10:48 am |
  12. Dov Fleischer

    Catholics loathe and disrespect women just like Muslims do. This proves it. On the other hand, the Catholic church is perfectly fine taking women's cash. Do you know who else can't "stand in for Jesus"? Any non-Jewish male, since Christians aren't Jewish. Sounds to me like that religion needs to just implode already.

    September 5, 2010 at 10:20 am |
  13. Believenotmen

    I have a question for you, Catholic Mom (Real one)
    If the pope made an appearance at your church one Sunday morning, and said, God has given me a sign, and I am to tell you that he wants you to die for our faith. We are passing out Kool aid, it is laced with poison. Please drink of it.
    Would you drink...or not?
    Don't you see the danger of blindly following a man, because you believe that he has infallibilty?
    Even if God did find the Catholic Church as the "real" thing, did not man have a hand in messing up what he originally intended? I mean popes, etc that you claim "followed" from Peter, who btw, was a married man..where does that follow in your traditions

    September 5, 2010 at 9:47 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenotmen,

      We know that killing is wrong, that includes suicide, so no, I would not drink the kool-aide laced with poison. [Wouldn’t drink it unlaced either….I am more health conscious than that!]

      It always seems so funny to me that all protestants who are either Lutheran or splits off Lutheranism, say, ‘You Catholics are following man!’ But Catholics are following Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. This is the House of God, as in……
      1Timothy 3:15, "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the House of GOD, which is the Church (singular) of the living GOD, the pillar and ground of the truth."

      Protestants are the ones following a man or in some cases, a woman!

      Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict, is the present Bishop of the Church of God, as in ………………….

      Acts 20:28, "Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock in which the Holy Spirit has placed you as Bishops, to rule the Church of GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood."

      The House of GOD is Built by GOD. Psalms 127:1, Matthew 16:18, Acts 20:28
      The House of GOD is Only one House. John 17:21……not 35,000 houses…
      The House of GOD is One Fold With One Shepherd. John 10:16
      The House of GOD is Not Built by Men. Psalms 127:1 ……… This leaves out Luther’s ecclesial community and all that followed down that path.
      The House of GOD is the Gate of Heaven. Genesis 28:17……..we are not talking about the body of Christ here…..we are not the gate.
      The House of GOD is the Narrow Gate. Matthew 7:13-14
      The House of GOD is the Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 13:31
      The House of GOD is the City Set on a Mountain. Matthew 5:14…… the mystical body of Christ is not a city.
      The House of GOD is the Bride of Christ. John 3:29, Revelation 21:2…..without stain or wrinkle or any such thing……..do sinners have stain or wrinkle or any such thing?
      The House of GOD is the Spouse of the Lamb. Revelation 19:7, 21:9
      The House of GOD is the Mother of us all. Galatians 4:26……a Mother gives us life.
      The House of GOD is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth. 1Timothy 3:15…….it is the Church, not the Bible.
      The House of GOD is the Dispenser of the Wisdom of GOD. Ephesians 3:7-11……we are not the dispensers of Wisdom.
      The House of GOD is Protected by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23……He sent the Paraclete to the Apostles, remember?
      The House of GOD is Without Spot or Wrinkle. Ephesians 5:27
      The House of GOD is Guided by The Holy Spirit. John 14:16-17, John 16:12-13, Acts 15:28
      The House of GOD is the Only Church Which Was Given Authority by GOD. Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23
      The House of GOD is the Final Authority. Matthew 18:17
      The House of GOD is Offering Sacrifice All Day, Every Day, and in Every Place. Malachi 1:11 ……Only the Catholic Church does this.
      The House of GOD is the Church of the Saints. Psalms 149:1…..the saints in Heaven are not cut off from their Church.
      The House of GOD Holds Periodic Church Councils. Proverbs 11:14,15:22, Acts 15:1-33
      The House of GOD will Last Throughout All Time. Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 28:20, Ephesians 3:21 …….He said He would not abandon His Church. He has kept it so for 2000 years….I think we should trust His promises.

      September 5, 2010 at 10:15 pm |
  14. Believenot men

    @ CatholicMom you state
    As noted in the Catechism, the Catholic Church teaches that those who have not been completely purged of sin and its consequences here on earth can be purged of sin and its consequences after death.
    Thats exactly where it came from, a pope, the catechism of the Catholic Church. When you say "who have not been completely purged of sin", you are saying Jesus death on the cross and the shedding of his blood, was NOT suffiecient to do the job of cleansing us from sin, 100%! That is a horrible thing to say! That is a mans thoughts, not those of God.
    Catholism, though she swears she is the "true" church, is a place that will surely send you to hell.
    I gave scriptures about the dead, right from Gods word , and you are telling me to ignore what he says, and believe the Catholic version of how it "really" is. No way!
    Please. get out of that damable place. .if you really love God and his words.
    The revelation clearly states the wh-A-re of Babylon is doomed..we know thats the Catholic Church.
    When Jesus said upon this church I will build my rock, he was NOT talking about Peter. Besides, Peter was a married man. Where does that follow in traditions? It don't.
    The Bride of Christ is ALL believers who have accepted his death on the cross for them, have been baptised, and are following in the footsteps of Jesus. Not a particular religion. I know of churches who believe in the same fundamentals of Christ, that would put the Catholic Church to shame!
    You need to read the gospel of christ, not what the Catholic authored version of it is. Most of what you quoted was completely out of context, and did not mean what you said it did.
    You can take my advice, or choose to ignore it, under the guise that you are the "persecuted" church and not of this world (although what your being taught is certainly not) . Better to wake up before its to late and you find yourself in hell, with all the "magesteriums" and other blasphemey books at your feet! I will pray for you, that Gods will show you the error of the Catholic Church and all its fallicies and lies.

    September 3, 2010 at 11:35 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Believenot men,

      If you care to really know what the Catholic Church is about there is a free ‘Catechism of the Catholic Church’ just google.

      Your hatred is very deep and I am sorry that you feel so strongly that you have condemned me to hell for being a member of Jesus Christ’s body and the Church that He founded. Since you don’t think it is the Catholic Church…which is it?

      Jesus did die so that all might have life everlasting but you are so wrong if you think that you have a guaranteed spot in Heaven. If you are doing the Father’s will and following the path Jesus has set down for us, you have a very good chance of getting there. Why do you think the Bible says things like….endure until the end….hold fast to the Traditions I handed on to you…..for in hope we were saved…..their end will correspond to their deeds….????

      What does the parable of the sheep and goats tell you?

      September 4, 2010 at 11:47 pm |
  15. David Morgan

    200 years from now we won't even remember or be interested in the banal subject matter of who steps in for Christ. Christ or any other "supreme being" doesn't need a mere mortal religious addict to stand in his/her/its place. Stupid is as stupid stands.

    September 3, 2010 at 6:38 pm |
  16. Andrew Stewart

    I think Jesus's representatives (priests) have made a rather poor showing of leading in Christ's footsteps, you have only to see the date bar at the bottom (report abuse) to see that. They are all old men at the top which means their thinking will not change.

    September 3, 2010 at 5:36 pm |
  17. Patty

    Doc Vestibule, I pity you. Where do you think you're going when you die.....despite popular opinion, hell does exist!

    September 2, 2010 at 9:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.