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October 10th, 2010
03:29 PM ET

Opinion: Gaining freedom through faith and good works

Editor's note: The Rev. Jesse L. Jackson Sr. is president and founder of the Rainbow PUSH Coalition. He began his theological studies at the Chicago Theological Seminary and deferred his studies when he began working full-time in the Civil Rights movement with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Rev. Jackson received his Master of Divinity degree in 2000. Next week: Rev. DeForest "Buster" Soaries Jr. writes about his campaign to eliminate debt as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, New Jersey. He is featured in CNN's "Almighty Debt: A Black in America Special" which premieres October 21.

By Rev. Jesse L. Jackson Sr., Special to CNN

My faith tradition has always been inextricably bound with the tradition of the civil rights movement. The blood, sweat and tears of "the movement" have run through my life; they touched and entangled me with an indelible spirit of never giving up, always trying to serve.

Through the good and hard times, I lean on my faith to help me traverse the twists and turns of life.

Read the full story

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Black issues • Christianity • Leaders • Money & Faith • Race

soundoff (63 Responses)
  1. Anete Swenson

    It was rather interesting for me to read the post. Thanx for it. I like such topics and everything that is connected to them. I would like to read a bit more soon.

    Anete Swenson
    escort service swiss

    November 13, 2010 at 6:58 am |
  2. Awakening

    Mayby you all should read this http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bluebeam.html Project Blue Beam

    What is important to understand in the first step is that those earthquakes will hit at different parts of the world where scientific and archeological teachings have indicated that arcane mysteries have been buried. By those types of earthquakes, it will possible for scientists to re-discover those arcane mysteries which will be used to discredit all fundamental religious doctrines. This is the first preparation for the plan for humanity because what they want to do is destroy the beliefs of all Christians and Muslims on the planet. To do that, they need some false "proof" from the far past that will prove to all nations that their religions have all been misinterpreted and misunderstoodhe first step concerns the breakdown of all archeological
    knowledge. It deals with the setup with artificially created earthquakes at certain precise locations on the planet where, supposedly, new discoveries will finally explain to all people the error of all fundamental religious doctrines. The falsification of this information will be used to make all nations believe that their religious doctrines have been misunderstood for centuries and misinterpreted. Psychological preparations for that first step have already been implemented with the film, "2001: A Space Oddessy;" the StarTrek series, and "Star Wars;" all of which deal with invasions from space and the coming together of all nations to repel the invaders. The last films, "Jurrassic Park," deals with the theories of evolution, and claim God's words are lies.

    Now figure out when we hear that voice from the new world messiah who would be speaking from space to all of the sane people of the earth who might give instructions to zealots and religious fanatics, we would see hysteria and social mayhem on a scale never witnessed before on this planet. No police forces in the world, even as a combined front, could deal with the disorder that will follow!

    October 14, 2010 at 9:00 pm |
  3. HisOwn

    FYI Raison
    I don't owe anybody accountability, except God.
    Since you made it your business to spring into a conversation that was not directed at you, I could care less what your thoughts are, and kindly ask you to mind your own business.
    Worry about your own sins, mine are fine.
    I see no reason to dance around the tree one more time and engage in a conversation with the same ole same ole. Period.

    October 12, 2010 at 6:26 pm |
    • Raison

      k

      October 12, 2010 at 6:28 pm |
  4. Muneef

    @Reality.Reality.Reality.
    You are giving a bad example and image of your country if you think you are 100% convinced of your allegations besides on all your posts there was no respect shown to any of the religions nor to to God,Angel Spirits,Holy Scriptures,Our Father Adam our Mother Eve nor the Prophets of God !! Sorry to see what breed has America prepared for us believers if the majority are like you!!?
    And since as it seems that only words of Quran can pass with out being flagged therefore I would let it speak to you for it self.
    Reading it would not be regretted or time wasted have to try understanding it whether you believe or not believe in it. God light of guidance will come to those who they want to be guided by them searching or researching in quest for a light of savior for guidance to the right path. Bless all. 

    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
    Qaf. By the glorious Qur'an, (1) Nay, but they marvel that a warner of their own hath come unto them; and the disbelievers say: This is a strange thing: (2) When we are dead and have become dust (shall we be brought back again)? That would be a far return! (3) We know that which the earth taketh of them, and with Us is a recording Book. (4) Nay, but they have denied the truth when it came unto them, therefor they are now in troubled case. (5) Have they not then observed the sky above them, how We have constructed it and beautified it, and how there are no rifts therein? (6) And the earth have We spread out, and have flung firm hills therein, and have caused of every lovely kind to grow thereon, (7) A vision and a reminder for every penitent slave. (8) And We send down from the sky blessed water whereby We give growth unto gardens and the grain of crops, (9) And lofty date-palms with ranged clusters, (10) Provision (made) for men; and therewith We quicken a dead land. Even so will be the resurrection of the dead. (11) The folk of Noah denied (the truth) before them, and (so did) the dwellers at Ar-Rass and (the tribe of) Thamud, (12) And (the tribe of) A'ad, and Pharaoh, and the brethren of Lot, (13) And the dwellers in the wood, and the folk of Tubb'a: every one denied their messengers, therefor My threat took effect. (14) Were We then worn out by the first creation? Yet they are in doubt about a new creation. (15) We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. (16) When the two Receivers receive (him), seated on the right hand and on the left, (17) He uttereth no word but there is with him an observer ready. (18) And the agony of death cometh in truth. (And it is said unto him): This is that which thou wast wont to shun. (19) And the trumpet is blown. This is the threatened Day. (20) And every soul cometh, along with it a driver and a witness. (21) (And unto the evil-doer it is said): Thou wast in heedlessness of this. Now We have removed from thee thy covering, and piercing is thy sight this day. (22) And (unto the evil-doer) his comrade saith: This is that which I have ready (as testimony). (23) (And it is said): Do ye twain hurl to hell each rebel ingrate, (24) Hinderer of good, transgressor, doubter, (25) Who setteth up another god along with Allah. Do ye twain hurl him to the dreadful doom. (26) His comrade saith: Our Lord! I did not cause him to rebel, but he was (himself) far gone in error. (27) He saith: Contend not in My presence, when I had already proffered unto you the warning. (28) The sentence that cometh from Me cannot be changed, and I am in no wise a tyrant unto the slaves. (29)On the day when We say unto hell: Art thou filled? and it saith: Can there be more to come? (30) And the Garden is brought nigh for those who kept from evil, no longer distant. (31) (And it is said): This is that which ye were promised. (It is) for every penitent and heedful one, (32) Who feareth the Beneficent in secret and cometh with a contrite heart. (33) Enter it in peace. This is the day of immortality. (34) There they have all that they desire, and there is more with Us. (35) And how many a generation We destroyed before them, who were mightier than these in prowess so that they overran the lands! Had they any place of refuge (when the judgment came)? (36) Lo! therein verily is a reminder for him who hath a heart, or giveth ear with full intelligence. (37) And verily We created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six Days, and naught of weariness touched Us. (38) Therefor (O Muhammad) bear with what they say, and hymn the praise of thy Lord before the rising and before the setting of the sun; (39) And in the night-time hymn His praise, and after the (prescribed) prostrations. (40) And listen on the day when the crier crieth from a near place, (41) The day when they will hear the (Awful) Cry in truth. That is the day of coming forth (from the graves). (42) Lo! We it is Who quicken and give death, and unto Us is the journeying. (43) On the day when the earth splitteth asunder from them, hastening forth (they come). That is a gathering easy for Us (to make). (44) We are best aware of what they say, and thou (O Muhammad) art in no wise a compeller over them. But warn by the Qur'an him who feareth My threat. (45)
    Sura 50:01 to 45.

    October 12, 2010 at 6:26 pm |
    • Muneef

      My Good Works to you.

      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Praise be to Allah, Who hath created the heavens and the earth, and hath appointed darkness and light. Yet those who disbelieve ascribe rivals unto their Lord. (1) He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt! (2) He is Allah in the heavens and in the earth. He knoweth both your secret and your utterance, and He knoweth what ye earn. (3) Never came there unto them a revelation of the revelations of Allah but they did turn away from it. (4) And they denied the truth when it came unto them. But there will come unto them the tidings of that which they used to deride. (5) See they not how many a generation We destroyed before them, whom We had established in the earth more firmly than We have established you, and We shed on them abundant showers from the sky, and made the rivers flow beneath them. Yet we destroyed them for their sins, and created after them another generation. (6) Had we sent down unto thee (Muhammad) (actual) writing upon parchment, so that they could feel it with their hands, those who disbelieve would have said: This is naught else than mere magic. (7) They say: Why hath not an angel been sent down unto him? If We sent down an angel, then the matter would be judged; no further time would be allowed them (for reflection). (8) Had we appointed him an angel (Our messenger), We assuredly had made him (as) a man (that he might speak to men); and (thus) obscured for them (the truth) they (now) obscure. (9) Messengers (of Allah) have been derided before thee, but that whereat they scoffed surrounded such of them as did deride. (10) Say (unto the disbelievers): Travel in the land, and see the nature of the consequence for the rejecters! (11) Say: Unto whom belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth? Say: Unto Allah. He hath prescribed for Himself mercy, that He may bring you all together to the Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. Those who ruin their souls will not believe. (12) Unto Him belongeth whatsoever resteth in the night and the day. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (13) Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. (14) Say: I fear, if I rebel against my Lord, the retribution of an Awful Day. (15) He from whom (such retribution) is averted on that day, (Allah) hath in truth had mercy on him. That will be the signal triumph. (16) If Allah touch thee with affliction, there is none that can relieve therefrom save Him, and if He touch thee with good fortune (there is none that can impair it); for He is Able to do all things. (17)He is the Omnipotent over His slaves, and He is the Wise, the Knower. (18) Say (O Muhammad): What thing is of most weight in testimony? Say: Allah is Witness between you and me. And this Qur'an hath been inspired in me, that I may warn therewith you and whomsoever it may reach. Do ye in sooth bear witness that there are gods beside Allah? Say: I bear no such witness. Say: He is only One Allah. Lo! I am innocent of that which ye associate (with Him). (19) Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise (this revelation) as they recognise their sons. Those who ruin their own souls will not believe. (20) Who doth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie against Allah or denieth His revelations? Lo! the wrongdoers will not be successful. (21) And on the day We gather them together We shall say unto those who ascribed partners (unto Allah): Where are (now) those partners of your make-believe? (22) Then will they have no contention save that they will say: By Allah, our Lord, we never were idolaters. (23) See how they lie against themselves, and (how) the thing which they devised hath failed them! (24) Of them are some who listen unto thee, but We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness. If they saw every token they would not believe therein; to the point that, when they come unto thee to argue with thee, the disbelievers say: This is naught else than fables of the men of old. (25) And they forbid (men) from it and avoid it, and they ruin none save themselves, though they perceive not. (26) If thou couldst see when they are set before the Fire and say: Oh, would that we might return! Then would we not deny the revelations of our Lord but we would be of the believers! (27) Nay, but that hath become clear unto them which before they used to hide. And if they were sent back they would return unto that which they are forbidden. Lo! they are liars. (28) And they say: There is naught save our life of the world, and we shall not be raised (again). (29) If thou couldst see when they are set before their Lord! He will say: Is not this real? They will say: Yea, verily, by our Lord! He will say: Taste now the retribution for that ye used to disbelieve. (30) They indeed are losers who deny their meeting with Allah until, when the Hour cometh on them suddenly, they cry: Alas for us, that we neglected it! They bear upon their backs their burdens. Ah, evil is that which they bear! (31) Naught is the life of the world save a pastime and a spot. Better far is the abode of the Hereafter for those who keep their duty (to Allah). Have ye then no sense? (32) We know well how their talk grieveth thee, though in truth they deny not thee (Muhammad) but evil-doers flout the revelations of Allah. (33)Messengers indeed have been denied before thee, and they were patient under the denial and the persecution till Our succour reached them. There is none to alter the decisions of Allah. Already there hath reached thee (somewhat) of the tidings of the messengers (We sent before). (34) And if their aversion is grievous unto thee, then, if thou canst, seek a way down into the earth or a ladder unto the sky that thou mayst bring unto them a portent (to convince them all)! – If Allah willed, He could have brought them all together to the guidance – So be not thou among the foolish ones. (35) Only those can accept who hear. As for the dead, Allah will raise them up; then unto Him they will be returned. (36) They say: Why hath no portent been sent down upon him from his Lord? Say: Lo! Allah is Able to send down a portent. But most of them know not. (37) There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. (38) Those who deny Our revelations are deaf and dumb in darkness. Whom Allah will He sendeth astray, and whom He will He placeth on a straight path. (39) Say: Can ye see yourselves, if the punishment of Allah come upon you or the Hour come upon you, (calling upon other than Allah)? Do ye then call (for help) to any other than Allah? (Answer that) if ye are truthful. (40) Nay, but unto Him ye call, and He removeth that because of which ye call unto Him, if He will, and ye forget whatever partners ye ascribed unto Him. (41) We have sent already unto peoples that were before thee, and We visited them with tribulation and adversity, in order that they might grow humble. (42) If only, when Our disaster came on them, they had been humble! But their hearts were hardened and the devil made all that they used to do seem fair unto them! (43) Then, when they forgot that whereof they had been reminded, We opened unto them the gates of all things till, even as they were rejoicing in that which they were given, We seized them unawares, and lo! they were dumbfounded. (44) So of the people who did wrong the last remnant was cut off. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds! (45) Say: Have ye imagined, if Allah should take away your hearing and your sight and seal your hearts, Who is the God Who could restore it to you save Allah? See how We display the revelations unto them! Yet still they turn away. (46) Say: Can ye see yourselves, if the punishment of Allah come upon you unawares or openly? Would any perish save wrongdoing folk? (47) We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Whoso believeth and doeth right, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (48) But as for those who deny Our revelations, torment will afflict them for that they used to disobey. (49) Say (O Muhammad, to the disbelievers): I say not unto you (that) I possess the treasures of Allah, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen; and I say not unto you: Lo! I am an angel. I follow only that which is inspired in me. Say: Are the blind man and the seer equal? Will ye not then take thought? (50) Warn hereby those who fear (because they know) that they will be gathered unto their Lord, for whom there is no protecting friend nor intercessor beside Him, that they may ward off (evil). (51) Repel not those who call upon their Lord at morn and evening, seeking His Countenance. Thou art not accountable for them in aught, nor are they accountable for thee in aught, that thou shouldst repel them and be of the wrong-doers. (52) And even so do We try some of them by others, that they say: Are these they whom Allah favoureth among us? Is not Allah best Aware of the thanksgivers? (53) And when those who believe in Our revelations come unto thee, say: Peace be unto you! Your Lord hath prescribed for Himself mercy, that whoso of you doeth evil through ignorance and repenteth afterward thereof and doeth right, (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (54) Thus do We expound the revelations that the way of the unrighteous may be manifest. (55) Say: I am forbidden to worship those on whom ye call instead of Allah. Say: I will not follow your desires, for then should I go astray and I should not be of the rightly guided. (56) Say: I am (relying) on clear proof from my Lord, while ye deny Him. I have not that for which ye are impatient. The decision is for Allah only. He telleth the truth and He is the Best of Deciders. (57) Say: If I had that for which ye are impatient, then would the case (ere this) have been decided between me and you. Allah is Best Aware of the wrong-doers. (58) And with Him are the keys of the Invisible. None but He knoweth them. And He knoweth what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falleth but He knoweth it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record. (59) He it is Who gathereth you at night and knoweth that which ye commit by day. Then He raiseth you again to life therein, that the term appointed (for you) may be accomplished. And afterward unto Him is your return. Then He will proclaim unto you what ye used to do. (60) He is the Omnipotent over His slaves. He sendeth guardians over you until, when death cometh unto one of you, Our messengers receive him, and they neglect not. (61) Then are they restored unto Allah, their Lord, the Just. Surely His is the judgment. And He is the most swift of reckoners. (62) Say: Who delivereth you from the darkness of the land and the sea? Ye call upon Him humbly and in secret, (saying): If we are delivered from this (fear) we truly will be of the thankful. (63) Say: Allah delivereth you from this and from all affliction. Yet ye attribute partners unto Him. (64) Say: He is able to send punishment upon you from above you or from beneath your feet, or to bewilder you with dissension and make you taste the tyranny one of another. See how We display the revelations so that they may understand. (65) Thy people (O Muhammad) have denied it, though it is the Truth. Say: I am not put in charge of you. (66) For every announcement there is a term, and ye will come to know. (67) And when thou seest those who meddle with Our revelations, withdraw from them until they meddle with another topic. And if the devil cause thee to forget, sit not, after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrong-doers. (68) Those who ward off (evil) are not accountable for them in aught, but the Reminder (must be given them) that haply they (too) may ward off (evil). (69) And forsake those who take their religion for a pastime and a jest, and whom the life of the world beguileth. Remind (mankind) hereby lest a soul be destroyed by what it earneth. It hath beside Allah no friend nor intercessor, and though it offer every compensation it will not be accepted from it. Those are they who perish by their own deserts. For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. (70) Say: Shall we cry, instead of unto Allah, unto that which neither profiteth us nor hurteth us, and shall we turn back after Allah hath guided us, like one bewildered whom the devils have infatuated in the earth, who hath companions who invite him to the guidance (saying): Come unto us? Say: Lo! the guidance of Allah is Guidance, and we are ordered to surrender to the Lord of the Worlds, (71) And to establish worship and ward off (evil), and He it is unto Whom ye will be gathered. (72) He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in truth. In the day when He saith: Be! it is. His Word is the Truth, and His will be the Sovereignty on the day when the trumpet is blown. Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, He is the Wise, the Aware. (73)
      Sura 06:01to73.

      October 12, 2010 at 6:56 pm |
    • Reality

      Muneef,

      Apparently, your Islamic brainwashing runs deep but again to show our deep concern for your future, we offer the Five Steps to Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs/tenets.

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave attended to by his wives before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      (Assuming your imam does not have a koranic-driven, apostate- assassination squad.)

      October 13, 2010 at 12:18 am |
    • Muneef

      Reality.
      Have you read it and understand it?
      You know some thing about you can't be hated no matter how you try to annoy others there is some thing good about you and just hope may God guide you. I will pray for you.

      October 13, 2010 at 6:13 am |
    • Reality

      Actions will always speak louder than words and prayers:

      A summary of a few of the terror and horror activies of koranic-approved activities of Muslims:

      1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

      1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

      2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

      3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
      defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

      4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

      5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

      6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

      7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

      8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

      9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

      10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

      11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

      12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

      13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

      14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

      15) Followed by the DAILY suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

      October 13, 2010 at 8:20 am |
    • Muneef

      If you think that Actions will always speak louder than words and prayers why are you crying when those jumped in to actions when before they were only asking for their Human and Religious Rights but because you were not listening or ignoring or leaving it behind your back now will only face louder and louder actions to open your ears and hearts deafness.
      What do you call that happened in prisons of Iraq? Is this good of you, but our violent reactions are always bad?One Eyed Justic You Have What Ever Your Races Are! Dijals.

      October 13, 2010 at 9:20 am |
    • Muneef

      Unfortunately when you are not left alone and there are always who are poking you irritating you and try to dictate to you your life if not bomb you.
      Where would you find your self in such situations that were enforced upon you? What would you do when you are made to lose every thing in your life? 
      It is said hungry men are angry men so you see now how many where made Hungry and Homeless world wide Muslims or non Muslims who must have had some body messing their lives up?!
      So you suggest to them now that action speak louder than word and prayers? They used to complain but no body heard, they prayed asking God but were never left alone still , so it seems they found a way they think of it reasonable to get your ego to speak to them. It is not right but it becomes right when you are not heard or given any justice or mercy!

      October 13, 2010 at 11:29 am |
    • Muneef

      Now not seen you speak of those humiliated,killed in Pelestine? Not seen any comment about those Muslims killed in former Yugoslavia who's enemy was supported and were supplied weapons by you?
      Do you know all that you have listed was prepared by you and excited by your payrole merceneries which weekly leaks has uncovered many of. By the way some already claim that the floods of Pakistan was arranged by you messing up with nature and water dams causing this to wash terrorists out saving your selves many soldiers lifes and unwanted war expenses and that is very much possible but wonder why did not work out for you to wash out all including China and India or was that not in the plan?

      October 13, 2010 at 11:53 am |
  5. HisOwn

    Reality, I do not need you to rescue me from anything, nor do I want to engage in your vicious circle of slurs toward my God.
    I do not put one iota of stock into anything your "professor" friends wrote. There ideas are totally wrong, as are yours in my opinion. But thanks for the effort.

    As you believe I am delusional, the feeling is mutual, sir. Lets just leave it rest there,

    October 12, 2010 at 2:53 pm |
    • Raison

      Reality is not delusional.
      I believe you want to "leave it rest there" because you, like many other religious followers, seek to avoid accountability.

      Had your "sins" washed away recently? That doesn't count for much in a criminal court. Religious "authority" has no standing in secular prosecution.
      Delusion doesn't "wash off".

      October 12, 2010 at 4:47 pm |
  6. HisOwn

    Mr. Jackson needs to move on and apply his Christian principles to ALL people.

    October 12, 2010 at 8:44 am |
  7. HisOwn

    From Crossan's book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)

    "Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

    "Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."

    These men that did this commentary do not understand what they write about.
    First, GOD the Spirit, came down to Earth, in the form of a flesh and blood man. He knew that some would need to see a "flesh and blood" person, in order to identify and live his life as man, so we would have a person living amongst us that man could identify with. He called that part of himself, his Son. To say it is "heavenly child abuse" is absurd.
    The writer does not understand what he says. He (God) was not "demanding" any blood sacrificeS,,,"sacrificeS" means more then one.
    He (God) died on the cross for your sins, so you would not be cast into Hell, and the atonement was in the blood shed by him, his own blood. Blood is a precious thing, we need it to live.

    Ok, so show us proof of the statement that the Christian stories were created (how, when where, by whom) to "fit" ancient prophecies...? That is simply not true. Am attempt by that author to "twist" or circ-u-mvent the truth for his own benefit or purpose.

    October 12, 2010 at 8:34 am |
    • Reality

      HisOwn,

      Part One of your great escape from the bible box you are trapped in:

      Christian economics 101:

      The Baptizer drew crowds and charged for the "dunking". The historical Jesus saw a good thing and continued dunking and preaching the good word but added "healing" as an added charge to include free room and board. Sure was better than being a poor peasant but he got a bit too zealous and they nailed him to a tree. But still no greed there.

      Paul picked up the money scent on the road to Damascus. He added some letters and a prophecy of the imminent second coming for a fee for salvation and "Gentilized" the good word to the "big buck" world. i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!! And he and the other Apostles forgot to pay their Roman taxes and the legendary actions by the Romans made them martyrs for future greed. Paul was guilty of minor greed?

      Along comes Constantine. He saw the growing rich Christian community and recognized a new tax base so he set them "free". Major greed on his part!!

      The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens/evangelicals et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches (including the Mormon Church) and related aristocracies. Obvious greed!!!

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue, ( Professors Crossan and Wright are On Faith panelists).

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      October 12, 2010 at 11:36 am |
    • Mike

      Reality "The Baptizer drew crowds and charged for the "dunking". Where do you come up with this stuff. How much did John charge? What did he spend it on since he lived amoung creation? Why was he not upset when he loss is profitable business to Jesus?

      What did Paul do with the money? How much did he charge? What about Ananias who saw Paul while he was blind and saw the scales falls from his eyes? Where is his counter testamony to what is in the Bible about him

      October 12, 2010 at 4:17 pm |
    • Reality

      Hmmm, the story aka legend has JB eating locusts topped with wild honey, a real delicacy no doubt in the first century CE.

      Another variation: "his food consisted of raw honey that tasted like manna, like a pancake cooked with oil."

      The "skinny" of said legend:

      "The idea of eating locusts or grasshoppers is repulsive to many, but keep in mind that most think nothing of eating a cow or a chicken’s flesh. It’s really a matter of mind-set. In ancient Greece and Rome, fried locusts, cicadas, and grasshoppers were considered a delicacy superior to the best meat or fish. These insects have enormous nutritional value. Grasshoppers, for example, are 60% protein versus chicken or beef with about 20%. According to author Christopher Nyerges, “When hordes of locusts destroy acres of crops, farmers should be counting their blessings and rapidly collecting locusts. After all, the locusts are a much higher protein source than the grains they’re devouring.”

      John the Baptist ate locusts just as many Asians also did then and still do today. Locusts are prepared by many by being slightly roasted, dried in the sun, and then salted. When eaten, the wings, legs, and head are removed; when the head is removed, the intestines come out with it. The part left is the fleshy portion. Locusts are a good source of protein, vitamins and minerals. Brother John ate locusts and the gold standard of food – wild honey." Yum!!!! – answers.com

      And it sure beats those tasteless, flesh and blood communion wafers still served every Sunday!!!

      October 12, 2010 at 4:41 pm |
    • Reality

      Some of Paul's money gathering activities some of which resulted in buying the Gentile entry into the then mostly Jewish version of Christianity:

      Paul claimed almost total independence from the "mother church" in Jerusalem.[12] and yet was eager and diligent to bring material support from the various budding Gentile churches that he planted to the mother church at Jerusalem.

      When a famine occurred in Judea, around 45–46,[24] Paul and Barnabas journeyed to Jerusalem to deliver financial support from the Antioch community.[25] According to Acts, Antioch had become an alternative center for Christians following the dispersion of the believers after the death of Stephen. It was in Antioch that the followers of Jesus were first called "Christians."[Ac. 11:26]. This act basically "greased" the entry of non-circu-mcised Gentiles into Christianity.

      "Paul collected the money from his four provinces, Galatia, Macedonia, Achaia and Asia but, for obvious reasons, of propriety, had representatives take each province's own contribution".

      October 12, 2010 at 5:21 pm |
    • Mike

      So if I read your post correctly you call the story of John the Baptizer a legend then explain how it is totally plausible because today people still eat locust today, with no mention of what he did with "all the money he was collecting"
      Then you accuse Paul of a vicious crime of ... Charity. And Charity to your “enemy” at that.
      Is that a correct interpretation of your response?
      Now yes the term Christian was first coined at Antioch, but I believe the first Christian was converted by Peter in Acts 10.
      Sort of like Lou Gehrig disease existed before it was named after him, if that makes sense.

      October 13, 2010 at 8:53 am |
  8. Gary

    Jackson is a racist pig. Religion is for the scared and weak minded...

    October 11, 2010 at 9:33 pm |
  9. Reality

    Mike, Mike, Mike,

    Please add the following review to your studies on "atonement theology":

    From Crossan's book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)

    "Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

    "Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."

    October 11, 2010 at 4:16 pm |
  10. Mike

    Craig Evans
    craigaevans dot com slash studies dot htm
    When asked how Crossan and other modern sensationalist come up with new theories on old doc-uments.
    "One reason is many of them lack training in the Semitic background of the NT"

    A good site that displays most of the book

    http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/articles/therealjesus.htm

    October 11, 2010 at 3:26 pm |
  11. Reality

    Some of Professor JD Crossan's books:

    2010 – The Greatest Prayer: Rediscovering the Revolutionary Message of the Lord's Prayer (Hardcover)
    2010 – The First Paul: Reclaiming the Radical Visionary Behind the Church's Conservative Icon (Paperback)
    2009 – Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography (Paperback)
    2009 – The First Christmas: What the Gospels Really Teach About Jesus's Birth (Paperback)
    2009 – The First Paul: Reclaiming the Radical Visionary Behind the Church's Conservative Icon (Hardcover)
    2008 – In Fragments: The Aphorisms of Jesus (Paperback)
    2008 – God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now (Paperback)
    2008 – Last Week: What the Gospels Really Teach About Jesus's Final Days in Jerusalem (Paperback)
    2007 – The First Christmas: What the Gospels Really Teach About Jesus's Birth (Hardcover)

    2007 – The Last Week LP: A Day-by-Day Account of Jesus's Final Week in Jerusalem (Paperback)
    2007 – La Ultima Semana: Un Relato Diario de la Ultima Semana de Jesus en Jerusalen (Spanish Edition) (Paperback)
    2007 – God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome, Then and Now (Hardcover)
    2007 – The Last Week: What the Gospels Really Teach About Jesus's Final Days in Jerusalem (Paperback)
    2006 – The Last Week : A Day-by-Day Account of Jesus's Final Week in Jerusalem (Hardcover)
    2006 – The Resurrection of Jesus: John Dominic Crossan And N.T. Wright in Dialogue (Paperback)
    2005 – In Search of Paul : How Jesus' Apostle Opposed Rome's Empire with God's Kingdom (Paperback)
    2005 – In Search of Paul (Paperback)
    2004 – In Search of Paul : How Jesus' Apostle Opposed Rome's Empire with God's Kingdom (Hardcover)
    2002 – Excavating Jesus : Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts: Revised and Updated (Paperback)
    2001 – Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts (Hardcover)
    2001 – Excavating Jesus – UK edition (Paperback)
    2000 – A Long Way from Tipperary: A Memoir (Hardcover)
    1999 – The Jesus Controversy: Perspectives in Conflict (Rockwell Lecture Series) (Hardcover)
    1999 – Who Is Jesus?: Answers to Your Questions About the Historical Jesus (Paperback)
    1999 – Birth of Christianity (Paperback)
    1999 – Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?: A Debate Between William Lane Craig and John Dominic Crossan (Paperback)
    1999 – The Birth of Christianity : Discovering What Happened in the Years Immediately After the Execution of Jesus (Paperback)
    1998 – The Birth of Christianity : Discovering What Happened In the Years Immediately After the Execution Of Jesus (Hardcover)
    1996 – Who Is Jesus?: Answers to Your Questions About the Historical Jesus (Paperback)
    1995 – The Essential Jesus: What Jesus Really Taught (Paperback)
    1995 – Who Killed Jesus?: Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus (Hardcover)
    1995 – Jesus : A Revolutionary Biography (Paperback)
    1994 – The Essential Jesus: Original Sayings and Earliest Images (Hardcover)
    1994 – Jesus (Hardcover)
    1994 – Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography (Hardcover)
    1993 – Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant (Hardcover)
    1993 – The Historical Jesus : The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant (Paperback)
    1992 – The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant (Hardcover)
    1988 – The Dark Interval: Towards a Theology of Story (Paperback)
    1973 – In Parables: The Challenge of the Historical Jesus. (Hardcover)

    October 11, 2010 at 1:36 pm |
  12. Reality

    Mike, Mike, Mike,

    One more time:

    Was Pentecost an historical event or simply more myth concocted by Luke to gain members to the newest cult in town??

    e.g. Luke, the only gospel writer to note the Pentecost, started this tale in Luke 24:49 i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically unreliable.

    faithfutures.org/index.php?t-itle=479_The_Promised_Spirit

    Professor Wayne Grudem- His work and life rely on the Pentecost but was the Pentecost even a historical event or simply more myth concocted by Luke to gain members to the newest c-ult in town??

    e.g. Luke, the only gospel writer to note the Pentecost, started this tale in Luke 24:49 i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically unreliable, therefore Wayne Grudem is dealing from a very “flawed deck”.

    wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?ti-tle=479_The_Promised_Spirit

    Ditto for John Frame. Ditto for C.S. Lewis. Ditto for Irenaeus. Ditto for Strobel. Ditto for Piper. Ditto for Chandler. Ditto for Wright.

    And indeed Professor Crossan has debated many other NT historians. Nothing new there. And there is a lot to discuss considering the in-depth studies of Professor JD Crossan. Said studies are published in his over 25 books:

    paperbackswap.com/John-Dominic-Crossan/author/

    October 11, 2010 at 1:34 pm |
    • Mike

      Was Pentecost an historical event or simply more myth concocted by Luke to gain members to the newest cult in town??--
      Historical Event as people witness the apostles and disciples coming out of the upper room, the one that Paul even mentions he will continue to celebrate in 1 Corinthians

      e.g. Luke, the only gospel writer to note the Pentecost,-- No John 14, Acts 2, Acts 20, 1 Corinthians 16

      Professor Wayne Grudem- His work and life rely on the Pentecost but was the Pentecost even a historical event or simply more myth concocted by Luke to gain members to the newest c-ult in town??

      Historical event. And again His work does not depend on it
      first major book Systematic theology, which pentecost is mentioned firt in the pages of the 300s then the 100s. I must disclose I have not read Systematic theology I am working up to it but take the abridge book Bible Doctrine. Where pentecost is first mentioned in the 10th Chapter about 200 pages in. How do you say someone's work is based on this one princliple when there are 9 chapters including clearity and inerrency of the bible, Attributes of God, Trinity, Creation, Sin preceeding the "major point" of all the author's works and belief system?

      Ditto for John Frame. - What reference

      Ditto for C.S. Lewis. - What reference in Mere Christianity, I'll give you a hint it's not mentioned in there.

      Ditto for Irenaeus.– What reference

      Ditto for Strobel. - Just No

      Ditto for Piper Ditto for Chandler. - Do you even know who these two are, that is a funny comment

      And indeed Professor Crossan has debated many other NT historians. - and they call him a sensational fraud for not being grounded in Sementic Studies and trying to make the news.

      October 11, 2010 at 3:36 pm |
  13. Mike

    posted in parts to find the key word that is blocking.

    @Godzilla

    No proof, so the thousands of manuscripts, the 500 witnesses of the resurrection, that is not proof

    And God never cam down to us. Where is your proof?
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    October 11, 2010 at 8:27 am |
  14. Sharon

    When Jesus comes after you with a flaming sword, don't come running to me for help!

    October 11, 2010 at 6:03 am |
    • Reality

      Flaming swords? Right out of the Book of Revelation?

      Hmmm, what others have said about said book:

      "Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]

      Martin Luther "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]

      October 11, 2010 at 9:58 am |
    • Mike

      source 32 comes from Drane, John. not form the source himself.

      October 11, 2010 at 11:00 am |
  15. Jim Murphy

    It's not about religion, because religion is man trying to reach GOD. Its about a relationship with Jesus Christ, and God came down to us. Are you wise to the ways of salvation?

    October 10, 2010 at 7:13 pm |
    • Raison

      spoken like a true delusional representative.

      October 10, 2010 at 8:02 pm |
    • Godzilla

      @Jim Murphy

      Religion is a belief system that requires no proof or honesty. It was never about "man trying to reach GOD", but about evil and dishonest men and women who have no compunctions about deluding simple-minded people with dogma.
      How can you have a relationship with someone you admit has not "returned"?
      And God never cam down to us. Where is your proof? More assertions without proof to prove yet more assertions?
      Define your "God's" attributes. I'll bet they cannot stand up to examination.
      "Salvation" is just more of your religious dogma. Without proof of the existence of "God", no so-called "salvation" is needed.
      Put up or shut up.

      October 10, 2010 at 9:02 pm |
    • Mike

      posted in parts to find the key word that is blocking.

      @Godzilla

      No proof, so the thousands of manuscripts, the 500 witnesses of the resurrection, that is not proof ..

      And God never cam down to us. Where is your proof?
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

      October 11, 2010 at 8:28 am |
    • Mike

      part 2
      Let me ask you, who are the people that you hang out with the most? A spouse or a best friend, do they think your perfect? Do they think you are God?

      However, the apostles and the disciples walked with Jesus for 3 years and then said He is God. The people that knew him the best, the people that would have seen his "flaws and follies" in weak moments, state clearly He is God.

      Elohim – strong One, divine (Genesis 1:1)
      Adonai – Lord, indicating a Master-to-servant relationship (Exodus 4:10, 13)
      El Elyon – Most High, the strongest One (Genesis 14:20)
      El Roi – the strong One who sees (Genesis 16:13)
      El Shaddai – Almighty God (Genesis 17:1)
      El Olam – Everlasting God (Isaiah 40:28)
      Holiness
      Faithfulness
      Omnipotence
      Self-existence
      Immutability
      Mercy
      Omnipresence

      October 11, 2010 at 8:28 am |
    • Mike

      The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the god-lessness and wick-edness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
      since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creat-ion of the world God's invis-ible qualit-ies—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
      For although they knew God, they neither glor-ified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became fut-ile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immor-tal God for images made to look like mor-tal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

      Therefore God gave them over in the si-nful desires of their hearts to se-xual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen

      October 11, 2010 at 8:32 am |
    • Raison

      Mike, I'm going to be as nice about this as i can, and I hope Godzilla doesn't mind me answering since he has "gone to visit Tokyo".

      You apparently feel that your "faith" is threatened and are doing your best to "give witness" to defend what you believe in.
      That's fine. We all enjoy seeing activity in this back-alley blog. I'm sure that if God and Jesus exist you will get something for your good intentions. I would give you something if I were them, but I am not worthy and cannot operate at their "level".

      I can't tell you how lame all those docu-ments appear by way of "proof" of the existence of a Supreme Being.
      All you have are docu-ments made by men who were not perfect. Who were, as you say, "sinners".
      You want people like me to accept the mere assertions of these sinful people and trust them with our lives and our very souls, among other things.

      I categorically and emphatically refuse such a ridiculous transaction. I did not just fall off a turnip truck, okay?

      You want me to risk everything on some docu-ments and nothing else. You have nothing else but docu-ments and a bit of circu-mstantial evidence of historical but not supernatural relevance.

      Mike, you need to do much better than that. I really do hope you understand me in this. If I have a soul, it needs the best protection I can give it. I'm not going to just let someone take it because they have a good sob story like the fellow with the cardboard sign on the corner.
      Docu-ments are no good in my opinion. I mean we're talking about GOD here! The Supreme Creator Dude!
      And you want me to swallow your filthy piece of fcking PAPER?

      Dang. I'm getting a little steamed here.
      Okay, let's try this::: You would, I expect, say that prayer works. I see you list omnipotence and omnipresence and mercy as some of God's attributes.
      Okay, do this for all of us throughout the world...pray to God and ask Him to puh-leeeze DO SOMETHING WE CAN ALL SEE AND MARVEL OVER!
      Or ask HIm to contact each one of us in a way that convinces us beyond a shadow of a doubt. Something that WORKS!

      You have no idea how glad we would all be to have a real god in our lives helping us and guiding us.
      If HE is truly merciful, good, and real, then why is there nothing but filthy pieces of paper written by a bunch of con-artists who couldn't even keep their stories straight?!?

      Mike, I'm sorry if I have harmed you with my anger, but when real proof is such a simple thing – and should be easy for an omnipotent God who is merciful and truly good – when it is such a simple thing....why is there nothing? Why would such a god hide all proof so completely unless he doesn't exist or is unwilling to be in real contact with us on the Earth?

      You don't have to answer this post right away. Please go and think and pray and do whatever you think will give you the answer first. I'm not in any hurry to read more scripture...I hope you can understand that...so please try to avoid tossing more of that around.
      Thanks.

      October 11, 2010 at 9:39 am |
    • Reality

      Mike, Mike, Mike,

      Hmmm, still trapped in the bible box so one more time in an effort to set you free:

      One of your major delusions is that the simple preacher man is/was somehow "god, incarnate"!!!

      John 1:1-18 where you have found most of this incarnation mumbo-jumbo only appears in this passage making it a single attestation. Most contemporary historic Jesus and NT exegetes have concluded that the passage is simply more embellishment by the "great embellisher" John (who btw was not the Apostle John)- See Father Raymond Brown's epic 800+ page book, An Introduction to the New Testament for added information.

      And before calling up "gay?" Gabriel (to defend your delusions) who supposedly talked to Mary about her "virgin" birth of the holy spirit's incarnate one, check out http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/026_Jesus_Virginally_Conceived

      There are actually more reference in the NT noting Joseph as the father!!!!

      October 11, 2010 at 10:11 am |
    • Reality

      Mike,

      Added comments:

      Thomas Jefferson

      And the day will come,
      when the mystical generation of Jesus,
      by the Supreme Being as His Father,
      in the womb of a virgin,
      will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva
      in the brain of Jupiter.

      - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
      Letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823

      John P.Meier – professor at the University of Notre Dame

      Meier [Marginal Jew I,220-22] discusses the virginal conception as part of his larger chapter on Jesus' origins. He earlier notes that both infancy narratives "seem to be largely the product of Christian reflection on the salvific meaning of Jesus Christ in the light of OT prophecies (p. 213). At the end of his examination, Meier concludes:

      The ends result of this survey must remain meager and disappointing to both defenders and opponents of the doctrine of the virginal conception. Taken by itself, historical-critical research simply does not have the sources and tools available to reach a final decision on the historicity of the virginal conception as narrated by Matthew and Luke. One's acceptance or rejection of the doctrine will be largely influenced by one's own philosophical and theological presuppositions, as well as the weight one gives to Church teaching.

      October 11, 2010 at 10:20 am |
    • Mike

      First Reality later raison.
      Still waiting on your response about the fraud that is Crossan and called out by Craig Evans and Wright in Lee Stobels book the case for the real Jesus

      It's like I typed this before.... AS PAUL said don't believe me but ask the 500 witnesses. Along with Hebrews 4 and about 20 others passages
      14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[e] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

      John 1 is NOT the only attestation. You know this but continue to type it.

      As far as the Most exegetes... yet again you also know and have been shown that this is not true
      Again I start with Evans

      http://www.craigaevans.com/cv.htm

      and continue with
      NT Wright
      Hays
      Allison
      Craig Blomberg
      John Frame
      John Piper
      Matt Chandler

      Crossan doesn't even qualify as a exegete for having a lack of displine in his "studies" and lack training in the Semitic background of the NT
      ...

      October 11, 2010 at 10:58 am |
    • Mike

      You apparently feel that your "faith" is threatened– No, more like misunderstood.

      and are doing your best to "give witness" to defend what you believe in? Yes just like 2+2=4, the argument is no one argues about that but when they do they will defend it

      I'm sure that if God and Jesus exist you will get something for your good intentions– actually no that is a works based theology.

      I can't tell you how lame all those docu-ments appear by way of "proof" of the existence of a Supreme Being.– I agree.

      All you have are docu-ments made by men who were not perfect. Who were, as you say, "sinners".
      You want people like me to accept the mere assertions of these sinful people and trust them with our lives and our very souls, among other things.– just like CNN, Yahoo and the AP. Which people put their trust in when making economic or political decisions

      I categorically and emphatically refuse such a ridiculous transaction. I did not just fall off a turnip truck, okay?– Why do you refute them. Can I refute the Crusades just because it's been so long ago, or do I put trust in the doc-uments from people who witness such an event.

      You want me to risk everything on some docu-ments and nothing else.– What else do you want?

      You have nothing else but docu-ments and a bit of circu-mstantial evidence of historical but not supernatural relevance.– Have you read the doc-uments. Have you not seen them reference people of their days Kings, peasents, warriors who are witnesses to such. By the way a witness is not a circu-mstantial evidence.

      Mike, you need to do much better than that. I really do hope you understand me in this. If I have a soul, it needs the best protection I can give it. I'm not going to just let someone take it because they have a good sob story like the fellow with the cardboard sign on the corner.– agreed so what research or learning are you doing to protect such a valuable item.

      Docu-ments are no good in my opinion.– Including the Consti-tution?

      Okay, let's try this::: You would, I expect, say that prayer works. I see you list omnipotence and omnipresence and mercy as some of God's attributes.
      Okay, do this for all of us throughout the world...pray to God and ask Him to puh-leeeze DO SOMETHING WE CAN ALL SEE AND MARVEL OVER!
      Or ask HIm to contact each one of us in a way that convinces us beyond a shadow of a doubt. Something that WORKS!
      - no, no more if I ask you to do something against your will you will not. An adultress generation ask for a sign?

      If HE is truly merciful, good, and real, then why is there nothing but filthy pieces of paper written by a bunch of con-artists who couldn't even keep their stories straight?!? - Where does the story diverge? Who was a con-artist

      Mike, I'm sorry if I have harmed you with my anger, but when real proof is such a simple thing - No apologies keep seeking.

      October 11, 2010 at 11:12 am |
    • Raison

      @Mike

      Wow. Your response has got to be one of the weakest and most useless responses I have ever gotten. You could not face any of my questions head on and you refuted none of my statements with any real substance.

      Where did you learn to argue? K-Mart? God, Mike, you can't pull that kind of shlt and expect to get away with it!
      What an empty faith you have. No wonder other people have given up on trying to argue with you. You have nothing to argue with...!

      My post was too much for you. I see that now.
      Yes, I will keep seeking for someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for trying.

      Next!

      October 11, 2010 at 11:28 am |
    • Mike

      Can you specifically tell me which point I left unanswered, I believe I address them all.

      October 11, 2010 at 12:23 pm |
    • Mike

      Question "Raison" as you are new to the board here and this is my first discussion with you, how do you know people have given up arguing with me, unless you have seen this before. Odd that a person with such a new name has so much history of our discussions.

      October 11, 2010 at 12:25 pm |
    • Mike

      I still like this one the best

      "Docu-ments are no good in my opinion." Including Laws, Physic Books, Evolution theory papers... even the papers that Reality quotes.

      Classic.

      October 11, 2010 at 12:28 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Raison

      Me, David Johnson, NL, Kate, Frogist, Luke, etc.. have all been through it with-Mike.

      We 'all' understand your frustration, on this one.

      Peace...

      October 12, 2010 at 4:33 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Mike

      Hi Mike.... At it again with the same old..." I absolutely *know* schtick, I see.

      You have been saying the same thing long enough, I may be starting to convert.... Oh, wait a minute. No... It's just late.... Bed time for me.

      Good night Mike... See you soon on another article.

      October 12, 2010 at 4:36 am |
    • Mike

      Peace, I am not sure how I came across as "I absolutely *know* schtick, I see" vs. "Here is the evidence, you can't just turn a blind eye to it you must resolve it for yourself schtick" or "I am doing exactly what Reality, NL is doing by posting other things to look at and research schtick" or "Here is the otherside that people have already discreditted Crossan schtick"

      October 12, 2010 at 9:04 am |
    • Mike

      I have not seen a rebu-ttal to the articles I / audio I have provided in the pass except to make one obsurce comment and using the word ditto across the board.

      "Docu-ments are no good in my opinion." Still cr-ack me up last night... Property Deeds, even Paper money is just a doc-ument to refernce the gold it is backed up with. I would encourage you to give your "doc-uments" to those that have need.

      October 12, 2010 at 9:08 am |
  16. Torm

    If faith without works is dead, what need is there for believing without proof?

    Just do the "works". No faith needed.

    "Everything is possible with God" is empty of meaning when there is no proof that a god exists.
    You cannot point to something as coming from "God" if you cannot prove "God" exists. You point at nothing and say "see?"

    October 10, 2010 at 7:11 pm |
    • Muneef

      Is there proof that God does not exist?

      October 10, 2010 at 9:06 pm |
    • Reality

      Muneef

      If god exists would she, he or it have allowed the following?

      The Twenty Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other:

      Rank Death Toll Cause Centuries
      1 55 million Second World War 20C
      2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C
      3 40 million Mongol Conquests 13C
      4 36 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
      5 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C
      6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C
      7 20 million Annihilation of the American Indians 15C-19C
      8 20 million Iosif Stalin 20C
      9 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C
      10 18 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C
      11 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
      12 17 million British India (mostly famine) 19C
      13 15 million First World War 20C
      14 9 million Russian Civil War 20C
      15 8 million Fall of Rome 3C-5C
      16 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C
      17 7 million Thirty Years War 17C
      18 5 million Russia's Time of Troubles 16C-17C
      19 4 million Napoleonic Wars 19C
      20 3 million Chinese Civil War 20C
      21 3 million French Wars of Religion 16C

      If god exists, why are deformed babies born?

      October 10, 2010 at 11:52 pm |
    • Mike

      @Reality Yes.

      October 11, 2010 at 8:15 am |
    • Mike

      Because sin has entered into the world.

      October 11, 2010 at 8:15 am |
    • Mike

      First Reality later raison.
      Still waiting on your response about the fraud that is Crossan and called out by Craig Evans and Wright in Lee Stobels book the case for the real Jesus

      It's like I typed this before.... AS PAUL said don't believe me but ask the 500 witnesses. Along with Hebrews 4 and about 20 others passages
      14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[e] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

      John 1 is NOT the only attestation. You know this but continue to type it.

      As far as the Most exegetes... yet again you also know and have been shown that this is not true
      Again I start with Evans

      http://www.craigaevans.com/cv.htm

      and continue with
      NT Wright
      Hays
      Allison
      Craig Blomberg
      John Frame
      John Piper
      Matt Chandler

      Crossan doesn't even qualify as a exegete for having a lack of displine in his "studies" and lack training in the Semitic background of the NT

      October 11, 2010 at 10:57 am |
    • Leo14

      @Reality.
      Self Explanatory Suras.

      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      So they routed them by Allah's leave and David slew Goliath; and Allah gave him the kingdom and wisdom, and taught him of that which He willeth. And if Allah had not repelled some men by others the earth would have been corrupted. But Allah is a Lord of Kindness to (His) creatures. (251)
      Sura 02:251

      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
      Lo! Allah defendeth those who are true. Lo! Allah loveth not each treacherous ingrate. (38) Sanction (to fight) is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory; (39) Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah – For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty – (40) Those who, if We give them power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin kindness and forbid iniquity. And Allah's is the sequel of events. (41) If they deny thee (Muhammad), even so the folk of Noah, and (the tribes of) A'ad and Thamud, before thee, denied (Our messengers); (42) And the folk of Abraham and the folk of Lot; (43) (And) the dwellers in Midian. And Moses was denied; but I indulged the disbelievers a long while, then I seized them, and how (terrible) was My abhorrence! (44) How many a township have We destroyed while it was sinful, so that it lieth (to this day) in ruins, and (how many) a deserted well and lofty tower! (45) Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind. (46) And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! A Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. (47) And how many a township to which I gave rispite through it was sinful! Then I grasped it. Unto Me is the return. (48) Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you. (49) Those who believe and do good works, for them is pardon and a rich provision; (50) While those who strive to thwart Our revelations, such are rightful owners of the Fire. (51) Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise; (52) That He may make that which the devil proposeth a temptation for those in whose hearts is a disease, and those whose hearts are hardened – Lo! The evil-doers are in open schism – (53) And that those who have been given knowledge may know that it is the truth from thy Lord, so that they may believe therein and their hearts may submit humbly unto Him. Lo! Allah verily is guiding those who believe unto a right path. (54) And those who disbelieve will not cease to be in doubt thereof until the Hour come upon them unawares, or there come unto them the doom of a disastrous day. (55) The Sovereignty on that day will be Allah's, He will judge between them. Then those who believed and did good works will be in Gardens of Delight, (56) While those who disbelieved and denied Our revelations, for them will be a shameful doom. (57)
      Sura 22:38 to 57

      October 11, 2010 at 2:29 pm |
    • Diana

      No. Salvation is a gift from God. It can't be earned. When Jesus was nailed to that cross, he was being nailed for every crime that would ever be committed by man, who is hopelessly lost without Him. Sorry. Jesus said, "The only way to the Father is by Me." That's pretty clear. Read Matthew 24

      October 12, 2010 at 12:42 pm |
  17. Reality

    Ditto those comments.

    Also, one of Mr. Jackson's favorite comments is: "There is too much inter-course without discourse in this country". As you know he failed to take his own advice.

    October 10, 2010 at 5:10 pm |
  18. EqualityJack

    "Reverend" Jackson, "your people" ARE equal and HAVE equality now.

    Whatever shade of skin someone has should not be an issue anymore. I think you are in a rut, a holdover from those days who cannot let go of the old slogans, of the old anger and issues, of your self-image and how you "relate" to others.

    If you want my respect, continue the call for jobs, economic opportunities, and all that, but do it for ALL people.
    Most Americans are poor and disadvantaged and out of work. By insisting on preferential treatment for so-called "people of color" is no longer a seeking after equality – you are crossing the line and being racist in your views and speeches.

    Your "fourth movement" is unrelated to the other three thanks to the progress that has been made since the bad old days.

    Put the shoe on the other foot. If a "white" person went around calling for preferential treatment for "white" people, wouldn't you go through the roof and blast them with accusations of racism? I sure would.

    ALL people need to be held to the same standards as everyone else.
    You call for "economic justice, access to capital, industry and technology" without addressing the underlying problems.
    I think that this is intellectually dishonest, and I ask that you modify your position as a fellow human being.

    Please fight for everyone, not just those people who you identify with. Equality means everyone.

    October 10, 2010 at 4:40 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @EqualityJack

      Well said...

      October 10, 2010 at 5:02 pm |
    • pete

      I do not like like Jesse Jackson, but you are blind if you think that there is equality in this country. If there were not annoying people like him continually blabbing his mouth we would regress. Certainly you don't have linchings, and KKK doesn't run the south anymore but it is out there and it is rampant. White people can't ask for preferential treatment because they are a majority, majorities rule. Not minorities (unless you talk about Sunni and Shia in Iraq).

      October 11, 2010 at 12:19 pm |
    • Diana

      Jackson may consider himself a preacher, but I haven't heard him preach the Word of God since the '60's. He and Wright spew out an idology that's harmful to everyone.

      October 12, 2010 at 12:37 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.