More from Gabe Lyons here.
http://www.indcatho-li-cnews.c-o-m/news.php?viewStory=15996 (remove -when googling)
open letter to pope from Hans K-u-n-g-
Google Hans K-u-n-g (5th time trying to post this) A CC priest, trying to make changes within the church.
Just tell CM that the 'Holy Spirit' led you to your conclusions.
Then I'll bet she will tell you that the 'Holy Spirit' led her to hers. We can have a "My Holy Spirit is Holier Than Your Holy Spirit feud"...
LOL Yes! Thanks for the laugh, I needed that!
Here is the one I could not locate yesterday. Alot in here.
Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621), a Doctor of the Church, in his Disputationes de controversiis christianae fidei, Adversus hujus temporis Haereticos (Debates on the Christian Controversies of Faith Against Contemporary Heresy), claimed that all the names that Scripture applies to C-h-r-i-st- are also to be applied to the Pope. In LIBER SECVUNDUS, De Conciliorum auctoritate (Book 2, The Authority of Councils) we find the following:
Summam Pontificem absolute esse supra Concilium.
TERTIA propositio. ...
SECUNDO probatur ratione, in scripturis fundata: nam omnia nomina, quae in scripturis tribuuntur Christo, unde constat eum esse supra Ecclesiam, eadem omnia tribuuntur Pontifici: ac primum, Christus est paterfamilias in domo sua, quae est Ecclesia, Pontifex in eadem, est summus oeconomus, id est, paterfamilias loco Christi. Lucae. 12. — Bellarmini, De Conciliorum Auct., Lib. II, Cap. 17, 1608, Paris, Tom. ii. col. 95.
What does "awaiting moderation mean"........ from a moderator?
It's when you type up a post, and it will say it is being moderated. Meaning usually there are certain words that would not go past the filter. For instance, const-i-t-ute..a normal word. but the filter apparently catches that word that I seperated, as an example. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong,lol.
Most of the posts that moderate, never show back up, at least mine haven't. If you read under other threads, you may see a list someone people have posted on what to watch for. Hope this helps. We all hate the "moderation".
I agree. Whatever it is in your life that makes you happy. regardless of who agrees or disagree's, is your business. If you decided that was the path you wanted to take, no one has the right to tell you its wrong. Stick to your guns, its your life and you only live once, or so thats what were told,lol. We do all have freedom of choice.
I watched the video, too cute! It's nice there are things out there today offered to children like this. I agree, too, that just being your natural self is full of beauty. I can see your analogy very well. Yes, society has set a bunch of limits to judge by. I find that sad. I can see beauty in people, and can go a step further and even say admiration as well.
Its easy to "blend" in with the crowd. But to step aside and just be you, whatever that may entail, is not always easy. It takes courage and strength and a belief in ones self. I admire that. If we don't love ourselves, we are not capable of loving anyone else.
In conclusion, we do agree on these things.
You said, ‘Whatever it is in your life that makes you happy. regardless of who agrees or disagree's, is your business.
Tell that to those in jail and prison….they will agree with you!
What you hold as belief in your mind….your Faith….is your own business for sure. It appears that people who belong to all the ecclesial communities that keep breaking off and forming new communities are still searching for their happiness…but that is their business and they have every right to follow their FREEWILL passions. It is God given!
Hi Ice man, NL and Whoa!
I am on a break at work, and checked in here for a few minutes. I get off from work around 5pm, and after I grab some dinner, I will come on and respond to all of your posts. Thanks! Laura
@ catholicmom you are right all we need is hope, faith, AND MOST OF ALL love.
@ Laura lol "VICAR OF CHRIST" spell that out in latin and add it up and see what number you come up with. Hey where did you get your info from there was a couple of thing in their i didn't know and want to check the facts before i use it..... Easter lol wonder if catholics did the history on this...bunnys, eggs, and a whole lot of loving.
I tried to post back links, but it won't take. Three times I tried, and it said duplicate comment, you already said that! I can't find it. So, tomorrow I will check again and if it did not "stick", I will try to revise the post, and re post it to you.
OK OK I WILL FINALLY ADMIT THE CHURCH JESUS STARTED IS THE RCC, THANKS JESUS FOR KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T BELIEVE IN YOU, "THAT'S WHAT YOUR CHURCH DID", NOT INCLUDING THE CRUSADES, .....THANKS RCC FOR BRINGING THE WORLD JESUS :-)
@ CatholicMom, how do you know your church was the TRUE church? UM as i recall it none of the other christians wasn't planning on taking over the world, by any means necessary. " Like i said not CHRISTLIKE to me", Oh And Peter was the one to get Yeshua's church started, others believed this also not just the RCC.
ALSO YESHUA DID NOT START THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, TO BE HONEST YESHUA WAS A BLACK MAN FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH,..............HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE YESHUA OR THOSE STRAIGHT HAIRED, BLUE EYED JESUS, ALL THE WHITE ANGELS, with wings, who said angels had wings THEY GET THAT FROM AFRICA, i believe the bible yall are the ones who claim to be above the bible. Your church took the religion the made it your own MOLDING IT TO YOUR BELIEFS. Who is making Yeshua a liar? YALL PRESENTED THE WORLD A FALSE GOD, which Yeshua is no God but, Yall Presented him as a White Man? you looking at me look at your history, ask yourself WHY WOULD YALL DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Can you see him coming as a black man the real shock will be how many whites have their jaw hit the ground. Your Jesus is a liar, the Jesus you presented to the world was a lie, cause he preached peace not war, Not WAR, i don't understand why you can't see that. THE PROSTANTS HAD TO DIE BY YALL HANDS TO HAVE THEIR FREE WILL "remember that please"
Hey ICE..! Out setting everyone straight, I see...
Hope all is well....
@ David you are right in the King James Version he did gave the keys to peter but "The Rock" Wasnt Peter it was the statement he made, That same rock is the cornerstone of our faith. Also in my eyes i see the world different than yours.
you are also right, i'm on board with all you had said . However i see alot of hate, it is so sad, the people of this world is sour, it's alot of reasons but one big thing is that them right fairys are putting fear and hate, it's not only them but their the ones in the news opening their big mouths and don't even know that the words they say have a read between the lines message. In the hood alot of people hate their life, so what they do hate and take from others. i was just showing it through my eyes.
Oops, I answered you, but I mistakenly posted it about half-way up this tread. I said.
So, if you just so happen to agree with what Augustine, Billy Graham, or Rick Warren says about some article of Christian faith how is this any different from Catholics agreeing with what the Pope says on the same topic?
NL...Its not. I have no problem with Catholics agreeing with what the pope says. I am sure the pope says things I would agree with. I have problems when the Catholic Church teaches that they are the ONLY true church and everyone else is wrong.
If the Catholics want to listen to the pope and believe what is dictated, they can, I could care less.
Let me give you an example of CatholicMom @ Iceman
Why do you call yourself a Christian, or did I misread your posts?....
You appear to have some reason to not believe the Bible…saying the Catholic Church isn’t the Church that Jesus Christ started….do you not believe in Jesus Christ or His Words?
Yes, there were heresies back in Jesus’ day as there are today…that does not mean that those ‘beliefs or systems of belief’ were the True Church…or are you suggesting that the promises of Jesus Christ that ‘He will build His Church on the person of Peter [not on Peter’s words], that evil will not prevail against His Church, that He would be with His Church always, that His Church will last until the end of time, and so on, are not true…making Jesus Christ a liar?
And you seem to have sympathy for Protestants because they went off and used their freewill as they so chose….how can you blame the Catholic Church? The Church does not say you cannot use your freewill, it can only show you your error and then you have to use your freewill to continue on ‘your path’ or choose to return to the Way that Jesus Christ laid down for us for our help and benefit.
Some say they hate their freewill because they have to make decisions. They would prefer that they were robots, I guess. But we could never choose LOVE if we were robotic and programmed without freewill.
October 18, 2010 at 1:49 pm | Report abuse |
See CM calls the guy a liar from the beginning, because he don't quite add up to being a Catholic canidate!
Plus, I was Catholic raised and got out of that place asap...most of thier teachings are dictated by thier church fathers....and believing that stuff and not looking for answers by going to the Gospel, could endanger peoples souls.
Read up on what they believe about baby baptism,
Then go to any other Christian sect and see what they all say about it as well.
Grab a bible and compare what the Catholic and the Protestans say, and see if its the word of God or not.
Make your own determination, if you were a believer, what do you think you might believe?.
Then I'll bet she will tell you that the 'Holy Spirit' led her to hers. We can have a "My Holy Spirit is Holier Than Your Holy Spirit feud"...
From my perspective 'born again' Christians can be just as adamant about their path being the only way. Baby baptism, I'll admit, makes no sense whatsoever in practical terms as millions worldwide could be living within different faiths without any knowledge of ever getting wet in a Catholic church as an infant. The choice on what faith position an individual should adopt and use as a guide for the rest of their lives seems even more complicated and important than the voting decisions we mandate that only legal adults are mature enough to make. So, in my opinion, people have to be old enough to make informed decisions about such things for it to have any real effect.
For that same reason I'm also dubious about five year olds finding Jesus and being born again. I'm also dubious about any tradition calling itself Christian that does not practice some form of the Eucharist, which stands out as the one thing Jesus wanted his followers to do in their services. Sadly, the most universal feature of any Christian service, the one thing that you can most count on being the same and which unites all forms of Christianity, is that you will be urged to dig unto your pockets before going on your way.
I too came to a point where I found Catholic doctrine and practices untenable, but when I shopped around for another brand to join I found that they all have elements that were too hard to swallow. For me, if I couldn't believe in something else all they way, then it wasn't really any better than the Catholic faith I grew up with, and if that didn't cut it any longer then I just had to accept that religious beliefs had no place in my life any longer. I'm glad that I made that decision early on, and am much happier because of it.
On that same note, have you seen the latest Sesame Street tune to go viral, I love my hair?
Society tells all of us, but especially women it seems, that we need to style, and color, and straighten or we won't be attractive and successful. It's like that line in Steel Magnolias that "There is no such thing as natural beauty." Well, why not? Babies are beautiful without any added adornment, so why do people have to spend tons of money, time and put in so much effort into being what society judges as attractive when they can be happy and know their self-worth without all that? Wouldn't the world be a better place without all of these added pressures to our self-esteeme?
I see a lot of parallels between this mindset and people's insistence that everyone must be religious. Instead of having to accept so many supernatural beliefs why can't we just be natural in our belief system? Babies are happy without any added belief in the supernatural, so why do people have to spend tons of money, time and put in so much effort into being what society judges as 'being justified' when they can be happy and know their self-worth without all that? So, when I saw this video I actually felt much the same way about my atheism as the little girl did about her hair. We both feel that it's completely unnecessary to add to what we already have in order to be happy.
I am sorry to disappoint you, that I have referenced someone else's explanation, but it is the same as I would have written.only better expressed and less time consuming. I am not at liberty due to time constraints I have in my life, to sit here and type something as lenghty, as much as I may prefer to. Like you, (who read and have alot of materials you refernce)I too have stored in folders lots of the same. They come in handy, especially when one has to moderate lenghty posts, only to have them moderate. Just re-editing can be monotous as well.
Since they are suppose to be his teachings, and I use the King James version of the bible, I would answer that YES. Unless the teachings from the bible are now also lies??
This is getting ridicolus to say the least.
Or, are you questioning my walk with Jesus? You:
And no, he is not the man helping me to" interpet "anything. I do have a brain and can think for myself. It is a crime now to read and agree with another persons thoughts, that you already believe the same as they do? In addition, in your google search, you missed one other I quoted from too.
This last sentence:
is he the man you are following for your help in scripture interpretation and your bible study?
What part don't you understand? Just because I post something that I happen to agree with, that does not mean I am letting it be "interpeted" for me. Is that what you are use to? Believing something as interpeted by the pope and not thinking and seeking God in a personal way on your own? How can you have a personal relationship with the Lord, if you are not seeking him out, but listening to what the pope tells you instead?
Nice try at discrediting me, and changing the subject matter from what posted.. Care to answer or respond to any of that? I notice when people post to you, you never address thier questions or comments directly, but go off on what your beliefs are. So, show me where what I have posted is in error to the Catholic church teachings, instead of this cat and mouse game?
Or can't you?
Nl Sorry, I misworded this,lol
read books authored by different religions I meant to say I have read books on different religons by authors of such.
I am tired, been a long day. Sorry for the mistake
Yes, I have watched many Christian video's and have listened to many sermons.
I am not sure if I am understanding the last part of your question. But, yes, they are my own in that after having researched alot on religions , read books authored by different religions, and from personal expierience, the conclusions I have set forth above, I would say are my own conclusions.
Not sure though if I answered properly, as I am not sure I am understanding what you mean? Alot of what I believe regarding the Catholic Religion are held by many people.
Iceman posted above. the same lines as I have.
most catholics i have met are jerks
What is the pillar and foundation of the Truth, Laura? Do you follow your infallible interpretation of the Bible when you teach Bible classes or do you use the infallible interpretation of the ecclesial community that has you teaching the classes?
Jesus C-h-r-i-s-t Is the pillar and foundation of theTruth. That is why I go right to his word, and under guidance of the Holy Spirit, his truth is shown.
I would hardly begin to call the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church as true. They are all orchestrated by the church and di-ctated as seen fit by your pope and and hiearchy.
I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I can understand why you believe all this stuff that was made up by the RCC (not C-h-r-i-s-t) and believe it. Anyone who reads a di-ctated book, based on what they "believe' it to be , and the so called "given authority" to change and re write the bible, you have you, or anyone who follows in thier "tradition"..
It is no wonder Martin Luther and others broke off from the "true" church.
What it comes down to, we are all gone to be accountable to God one day. I don't think it will go over to good to say, oh gee, I just believed everything that so and so church taught. Or, I thought the RCC was the "real" church. Where does that leave your responsibilty as a believer?
I think we can agree to disagree, and have respect for all, and for what they believe. Coming along telling other people they are "wrong" for thier beliefs is wrong. That is between them and God, or as in some cases, no God. .
Last you say:
Do you follow your infallible interpretation of the Bible when you teach Bible classes or do you use the infallible interpretation of the ecclesial community that has you teaching the classes?
I follow the infallible teachings of Jesus C-h-r-i-s-t, when I teach the bible, and it is a in home study.
"The infallible interpetation of the ecclesial c-o- m-m-unity "
Those people have as much right to Jesus thru prayer, worship, and divine guidance as you do CatholicMom. Who are you to question, or ins-i-nuate that they are not of God, just because you see your di-ctated version of Gods universal church from a different belief system?
Sorry, but I would rather belong any church that is based in the fullness of the gospel, but I would not ever consider the Catholic Church.
Is the bible the only religious book you've ever read, and have you ever learned something from a sermon, or a Christian video? Take a moment and consider all of the outside influences that affect your 'individual, personal' interpretation of scripture. Sure they're all your original ideas?
Yes, I read my Bible [and keep other bibles to cross-reference]; my Catechism of the Catholic Church is especially good reading, and I belong to a Book Club. Plus I have magazines, newspapers, and books I buy or get at the library.
Yes, the Bible, the Magisterium, and Holy Tradition is what I consider when I need help in defining a scriptural passage. I believe the history of 2000 years stretching back to the days of Jesus, all the Church doc-uments, the Church Doctors and the Church Fathers give me much to read and study and contemplate. I have faith in this as giving me my best options for Truth.
After all, the Bible tells us the CHURCH is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth. Jesus Christ IS Truth, and He placed His Church as the pillar and foundation of His Truth…He trusts the Church because He Himself sent the Paraclete as insurance. Jesus Christ knows better than to trust a system a man sets up, so He set one up for Himself. Yes, many have left His Way to follow man but many are coming back. Do you ever watch EWTN?
My responsibility as a believer is to follow the Plan as Jesus set it out for us through His Church and Holy Sacraments that He insti-tuted, as His way of bestowing grace upon us. I find it is ‘freeing’ to know that I don’t have to rely on my human infallibilities to ‘do the Father’s will’. Accepting Baptism for the gift that it is was my initial seed of faith. I am truly grateful for my parents whose faith in Jesus Christ allowed me to receive the Holy Spirit when I was just a baby. Every Easter Sunday I renew my Baptismal vows with a grateful heart.
Any good that I may have done in my life is due to the Holy Spirit working through me….all of the Holy Spirit’s works are meriting us treasure in Heaven….which none of us could ever achieve on our own.
Laura, you said, ‘I follow the infallible teachings of Jesus C-h-r-i-s-t, when I teach the bible, and it is a in home study.’
I wasn’t questioning the infallibility of Jesus’ teachings. I was just curious as to your interpretations of His teachings…are they infallible?…. I am sorry you spent so much time copying and pasting from Douglas S. Winnail; is he the man you are following for your help in scripture interpretation and your bible study?
I was interested in your own thoughts, in your own words…..
Facts of History
But was Peter the first pope to preside in Rome? Even Catholic sources acknowledge that the term "pope" was not used in the West "until the first half of the 5th century" (Short Biographies of All the Popes, Lozzi Roma, p. 2). As scholar Hans Küng states: "Catholic theologians concede that there is no reliable evidence that Peter was ever in charge of the church in Rome as supreme head or bishop" (The Catholic Church, Küng, p. 20). Professor Küng also mentions that "there could be no question of a legal primacy—or even of a pre-eminence based on the Bible—of the Roman c-o-m-munity or even of the Bishop of Rome in the first centuries" (ibid., p. 49). The New Testament does not link Peter with Rome, and it mentions no s-u-ccessor to Peter. The apostles urged Ch-r-i-s-tians to look to Jerusalem and the churches in Judea—not to Rome—as their models (Galatians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 2:14).
Historians know that the bishop of Rome was "at first only one of several patriarchs" (Civilization Past & Present, Wallbank, 6th ed., p. 133). There were also patriarchs in Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria who were regarded as equals—but history records that they were also compet-i-tive and grasping for power. Around 160ad, Bishop Anacetus of Rome tried to pressure Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, to keep the Roman Easter instead of the biblical Passover held on Nisan 14. Anacetus was unsuccessful, because Polycarp said he was following a tradition learned from the Apostle John. Fifty years later, another Roman bishop, Victor, threatened to ex-co-m-m-u-nicate the eastern churches for not adopting the Roman date of Easter. Again they refused, and they continued to follow true apostolic teaching.
The Petrine theory holds that Peter’s successors are to decide doctrinal matters for the Church. Yet, at the Council of Nicaea in 325ad, records show that the Roman bishop, Sylvester I, did not attend and exercised no primacy when the date of Easter was set as a replacement for the biblical P-a-s-sover, and when Sunday worship officially replaced the seventh-day Sabbath. The Council of Nicaea was called and presided over not by a Roman bishop, but by the Emperor Constantine. As emperor, Constantine held the t–it–le of Pont-ifex M-ax-imus in the pagan Roman religion—a t-i-t-le that Roman bishop Leo I would adopt a century later when arguing for the Petrine primacy over all other bishops. In 451ad, however, the Council of Chalcedon reb-uf-fed Leo, and decreed that the bishops of Rome and Constantinople had equal authority. By 1200ad, Pope Innocent III was claiming to be the "Vicar of C-h-r-i-s-t," and the Supreme Sovereign of the Church and the world (Halley’s Bible Handbook, p. 776). For about 600 years during the Middle Ages, Roman bishops pointed to the "Donation of Constantine" as evidence of their right to preside over all the other bishops, but the do-c-u-ment was later proven to be a fraud (Kung, p. 50).
Scripture and history both show that the early Church did not recognize the Roman theory of Petrine primacy. Rather, it was ambi-tious Roman bishops who developed the doctrine to gain power over other bishops and their churches. Jesus C-h-ri-s-t warned that at the end of the age, many would be deceived by false teachers claiming to represent Him (Matthew 24:3–5). Paul warned that in the latter times hypocritical teachers would spread lies (1 Timothy 4:1–3) and would delude people into believing ancient heresies and unbiblical traditions (2 Thessalonians 2:1–15). These long-standing warnings are c-o-m-ing alive today!
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.