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 Our Take: Your relationship style determines how you feel toward God
By Tim Clinton and Joshua Straub, Special to CNN A few weeks ago, Christopher Hitchens was interviewed on CNN. A renowned atheist who has recently been diagnosed with cancer, Hitchens told Anderson Cooper, “If you hear that I came to God on my death bed, don’t believe it.” We were stunned. Why? Because a growing body of research shows that from an early age we are hardwired for a relationship with a "Transcendent One." For Hitchens to willfully decide that he will fight off or deny any future existential longing he may develop for God - or shut out any evidence he comes across in favor of God - is grievous. Though it seems that America is tired of religion, we’re finding quite the opposite about a relationship with God. A recent Newsweek poll found that 91 percent of American adults claim a belief in “God”, while Time magazine reported that 85 percent identify themselves as Christian. Gallup reports that 73 percent of Americans “are convinced that God exists.” People want more of God, not less. Yet in their spiritual thirst, many people hit a wall when faced with a crisis in life: a cancer diagnosis, a divorce, a car accident, a natural disaster or a job loss. Too often, they feel distant from God and have a hard time believing he will be there for them when they need him most. Either that or they turn to God in prayer more than ever before, but end up disillusioned when he doesn’t come through in the ways they had hoped. An exciting new body of research on attachment is adding to our understanding of why we feel "close to" or "distant from" God. This theory of relationship understanding and emotion goes beyond a legalistic religious obligation to maintain good standing with God. It’s becoming a powerful way of comprehending how we can better relate to God and experience his grace on a daily basis. For many who claim to be Christian, much of modern-day thinking about how to connect with God has been reduced to a theory of sin management - that what we do or don’t do in our daily lives is the gauge by which we measure why we are, or are not, close with him. The truth is that many who leave the faith or turn away from God do so because they have come to realize that this mindset led to nothing more than a shallow or empty relationship with God. Attachment theory helps us understand our misconceptions about who God is and how we approach a relationship with him. The problem isn’t God; it is the way we view him and act toward him. Our spiritual journeys are linked to core relational beliefs established early in life based on how we've learned to perceive ourselves and others in our closest relationships. In fact, we believe everyone reading this blog has a relationship style that affects their relationship with God and significant others. We are not trying to establish religious beliefs. We're also not saying that sin doesn't create distance with God. What we’re trying to do is to help people understand more fully the nature of how their relationship style infects or affects how they relate to God. There are four kinds of attachment or relationship styles developed from our core relational beliefs, which are or aren't formed within the context of safe, close, affectionate and secure bonds. These styles reveal whether we believe we’re capable of getting the love and comfort we desire and how much we trust others to be accessible and available in moments of need. They also shape our expectations about how God will relate to us, especially during times of need. We break down the styles in our book God Attachment: Secure: a positive view of self/a positive view of others Avoidant: an overly inflated view of self/a negative view of others Anxious: a negative view of self/an over inflated view of others Fearful: a negative view of self/a negative view of others When we’re faced with stress, we seek closeness to those we feel safe with. Each one of us exerts specific behaviors to help us get closer to those we’re attached to in times of need. If we don't feel safe; if we are confused in our core beliefs about whether we’re worthy of love or whether others are capable of loving us or accessible when we need them, then we'll transfer those beliefs onto God and struggle to believe he could really be there for us. But if God serves the functions of an attachment relationship in our individual lives, it can be the difference between cognitively believing in God, as most do, and emotionally connecting, trusting, and walking with him every day, which is much less common. If you came from a dysfunctional family and stopped reading now, you might be tempted to believe that it is impossible to have a genuine relationship with or healthy view of God. But the good news is that research supports the notion that those with insecure relationship styles can and do find a close, secure relationship with God as they turn to him and discover he is not like other attachment figures who have hurt them in life. Perhaps it’s time to challenge our beliefs about God (if we’ve seen him as disinterested or unavailable) and re-evaluate our own identity (if we tend to see ourselves as hopeless or unlovable). Finding hope and meaning doesn’t happen overnight. There’s no magic prayer or verse that will heal the wounds we’ve experienced. We need to be honest with ourselves, grieve our losses, repent of our own wrongdoings, forgive those who have hurt us, and learn new relational skills. Just like any other relationship, building intimacy with God requires vulnerability. Honesty. Time. Prayer. Focus. Listening. Journaling. Reading the Bible. Meditating. Remember, the goal is to connect with God, and get to know him for who he really is. This often requires peeling off layers of false core relational beliefs. When we understand our relationship with God in light of attachment research, we begin to realize how our unhealthy preoccupation with anxiety, fear, guilt, or self-punishment may actually be shutting out the love and healing we truly long for. God is not like your mother, your father, your spouse, your ex, or any other human that failed, abused, or abandoned you. If you’re from a secure background, God also cannot be the God of your father or mother. Your relationship with him must become personal. When you connect with God, and begin to grasp who he really is, you begin to build the most vital relationship in your life. He becomes your source of truth, love, forgiveness, joy, and security. It’s a choice you make. So if you’re one of the 97 percent of people who do believe in God, who is he to you? Are you close to him? If not, your relationship style is likely the reason. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Tim Clinton and Joshua Straub. soundoff (1,423 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Next »Post a comment
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team and frequent posts from religion scholar and author Stephen Prothero.  |
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Editor's Note: Tim Clinton, President of American Association of Christian Counselors, and Joshua Straub, an adjunct professor at Liberty University, are the authors of 
To my fellow avoidants out there, you may recognize this style as being far too SELF-reliant, and far too little God-reliant–learning as you di growing up how to rely on yourself to soothe yourself when distressed rather than relying on parent and others who did not come thru for you. An avoidant style tends to cause a believer to tack away from God rather than naturally moving in deeper to Him. If reinforced by a lack of trust–believing that God let you down in some critical crisis in your life–it is easy to understand why avoidants have such a difficult time landing in God's proverbial lap, if you will. Intimacy with anyone, let alone God, is usually a difficult challenge for those with avoidant styles. I have had to learn–and am still learning–to move deliberately into relationships, whether it be with God, or my wife, or even my own children. Does your spouse have a more intimate relationship with your kids, even though you would likely admit to loving them as much as your spouse? The difference, if one exists, may be attributable to your attachment style–to an avoidant attachment style. I have had to learn how to discipline myself–and I have so much more to learn still–to deliberately spend with God–time in prayer, in worship, in bible study, and in thanksgiving. I am not naturally bent toward these things, but it is thrilling when God honors such time and shows up in love and power. Is it time to return to Him–to become the 'prodigal' who 'Came to his senses' and realized that life with his Father was better than anything else without HIm? He will honor such a faith–and will delight over you for coming Home to live again in His Kingdom.
George,
"it is thrilling when God honors such time and shows up in love and power."
Can you please recount some of these instances?... and demonstrate how there is no other rational explanation for them?
Words of Gold in this article and is very obvious and easy understanding God has told us to Worship,Pray and to gain knowledge and skills to improve status and fulfill wishes, God said we are to work and he will assist but not to expect all to come to you with out the slightest efforts other than worship and prayers??
To start our new year with the hope of a better horizon and environment surrounding us we are to consider starting with:
http://www.islamicsolutions.com/world-day-of-god-2010/
Sorry readers, that first clause is, 'I would like to reach out to those who'....
I would like out to those who–apart from expounding on their theories and misbeliefs–have had a relationship with God but have walked away from it. Your attachment style may have had much to do with the reasons you walked (and the things you may be telling yourself about God being nonexistent or simply not there when you need him). From a secure base, God is experienced as the 'safe-haven' who always has your back, as the One who becomes present and care-giving in response to my faithful belief in Him. Let Him whisper to you thru this book about His desire to reconnect....
Maybe believers have a relationship problem with themselves? Most children learn to depend upon their own experience to calm their fears, but some with confidence issues depend upon their parents well past their childhoods. Maybe the need to believe in a heavenly 'Father' to continue transferring your burdens and worries onto, like you did your real parents when still a child, is similar to some adult children's choice not to move out of the family home, their 'failure to launch?'
I agree, George. The real issue is that God wants to have a relationship with the humans He created, and He went to a lot of trouble to make that possible. Anyone who has had a genuine interaction with Jesus Christ has no doubt that He exists. This is not a matter of "facts" or "logic" or imagination.... it is about personal experience. None of you know my sister, but you cannot tell me that because you have not met her she doesn't exist. You can laugh and mock and deny all you want, but that does not change the fact that there is a God in this universe who created us in His image so that He might have an intimate and loving relationship with us. What you as an individual choose to do with that fact is up to you, but just choosing not to believe in Him doesn't obviate His existence. Paschal said that inside of every man is a god-shaped void that can only be filled to satisfaction by the very God Himself. I will say with great assurance that for me, this is absolutely true.
@JoAnn,
"Paschal said that inside of every man is a god-shaped void that can only be filled to satisfaction by the very God Himself."
Perhaps. I will wait - yours doesn't fit.
P.S. Your sister's existence can be docu-mented by other means than your word. Your "God" cannot.
@ JoAnn Diller: "None of you know my sister, but you cannot tell me that because you have not met her she doesn't exist."
That statement implies your argument to be: your sister exists even though most of the world has never met her, therefore god exists even though nobody has ever met god. Even if we take a less absolute view, at best your argument is: you COULD have a sister even though I don't know her, and god COULD exist even though I don't know god.
In either case, that's a bit simplistic (not to mention logically fallible). There are BILLIONS of sisters on earth. I know several myself (regardless of whose sister they may be). Because I know sisters do exist, I don't need to rely on personal experience to believe that you also could have a sister. Sisters are everywhere, so it's not hard to believe that you COULD have one.
You can apply this analysis to ANY example you want. All it takes is for one instance of something to be true. Take, for example, the question of whether there is life elsewhere in the universe. Using your logic, you would say that even though we don't know of any extraterrestrial life, extraterrestrial life COULD exist. Of course it COULD because we already have at least 1 example of life in the universe (life on earth).
However, NOBODY has ever met a god. There is not one single instance of knowing that there is a god. Therefore, your argument fails. It, like ALL other arguments that purport to prove the existence of a god, is nothing more than verbal sleight of hand.
To the authors or editors of this article,
If you're going to change the article after posting please acknowledge those changes, as many comments won't make sense in light of the new changes.
Thank you.
P.S.
You might want to cleanup the last paragraph as well.
"So if you’re one of the 97 percent of people who do believe in God, who is he to you? Are you close to him? If not, your relationship style is likely the reason."
GEEZ. Jaded much people? I just looked at the preview on AMAZON. The RESEARCH IS CITED IN THE BOOK, DUHR.
They're not going to put a thousand links to the research on the blog you tards.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Attachment-Believe-Feel-About/dp/1439183783/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289589104&sr=8-1
Ryan,
GEEZ. They changed (corrected) the article.
Previously, it stated that a Gallup Poll said 97% of the world believed in God and had a link to a Gallup Poll. (see my earlier post.)
The problem was that the link did not say what they claimed it said.
Ryan -
Most anthropologists have rejected this rather-tawdry and discredited line of thinking a long time ago.
What Clinton is doing (along with a little cold-reading) is this:
1. Humans are wired to 'print' on a leader, hence;
2. Humans are wired to believe in a 'god', hence;
3. 'god' exists.
Problem is, there's a huge leap between #2 and #3, which requires proof. Neither Clinton, nor anyone else, has yet been able to produce any.
Sorry, and stuff.....
God(s) is a silly explanation to existence. Quit wasting your life believing in fantasy and actually get out and help your fellow human or animal neighbor, that's what really matters no matter what belief system (or lack thereof) you adhere to.
Not if your belief system teaches you that you have to get into your fellow human's business and that animals aren't your neighbor, but were placed here for your enjoyment.
Really more silly than.
I now want to consider what this tells us about the universe we live in. Ever since men were able to think, they have been wondering what this universe really is and how it came to be there. And, very roughly, two views have been held. First, there is what is called the materialist view. People who take that view think that matter and space just happen to exist, and always have existed, nobody knows why; and that the matter, behaving in certain fixed ways, has just happened, by a sort of fluke, to produce creatures like ourselves who are able to think. By one chance in a thousand something hit our sun and made it produce the planets; and by another thousandth chance the chemicals necessary for life, and the right temperature, occurred on one of these planets, and so some of the matter on this earth came alive; and then, by a very long series of
chances, the living creatures developed into things like us.
And that is less silly then
The other view is the religious view. According to it, what is behind the universe is more like a mind than it is like anything else we know. That is to say, it is conscious, and has purposes, and prefers one thing to another. And on this view it made the universe, partly for purposes we do not know, but partly, at any rate, in order to produce creatures like itself-I mean, like itself to the extent of having minds.
CSL
Mike, not me-
Yes, that really is much less silly than the religious view.
By what mechanism do you propose a sentient intelligence has always been, then created the universe out of nothing, and yet 'controls' everything in fashion that easily passes for natural? If you can't do any better than saying that it just happened that way because the bible says so then all you have done is add several more layers of improbability and mystery to the natural explanation. I fail to see how this is better, or more believable than the simpler natural explanation for the origins of the universe.
And your belief system came from where exactly??
Why is life a random event even from a materialistic point of view? I see no reason to reject the hypothesis that life of some sort is inevitable given the right initial conditions (which may not be so restrictive as some would have us believe). You implicitly placed constraints on the materialistic world view when in actuality there are no such limitations. Materialism is doing good things for us and we simply have no evidence for anything outside our measurable realm that supports religion.
Let us not forget that if the universe is a process similar to the mind, then the resulting emergent behavior such as consciousness may be as clueless to our existence as we are our own neuron and synapse components. In other words, we are not special, we are just lucky (especially if you live in a modern region of the world and don't suffer until you die from the combination of religion, fear, and disease).
@Mike Statistics are only unlikely in the face of small numbers. It's unlikely that you'll win the lottery if you buy one ticket. However, if you buy 100 million tickets, you're almost certain to win. It's alot like that in our universe. We have billions of galaxies and planets, why is it surprising that one may have landed in the right spot.
To put it another way. Place a mark 20 feet down the road. Then huck handfuls of change at the mark. The more change, the greater the chance it will land on the mark.
Most people get hung up on the concept of "what are the odds this planet has life". Which is incorrect. The question is "what are the odd any planet has life."
Megatron-
It's also possible that the universe had a number, possibly an incredibly large number, of 'false starts' before resulting in what we see today. Many of those other possibilities, where creationists actually like using huge numbers, could have been tried until, randomly or through gradual change in conditions, the right balance was hit and a stable universe created.
It's like in that Ben Stein movie where the cartoon Dawkins gets all frustrated that chance isn't working for him. They imagine odds being like a single slot machine instead of all the slot machines in Vegas being played night and day. Lightening striking a single pool of slime instead of lightening striking thousands of times a day, all over the world, for billions of years. I'd say they lack imagination, but considering what they do believe maybe they just employ their imaginations selectively.
@Mike, not me: This is a common fallacy that's pondered about life... The question of why there just happens to be a sun of the right size and age, and there just happens to be a planet of the right distance from it, and there just happens to be the right chemicals and elements present for life to develop; that question's logic is backwards... It's not that there just happened to be all of these conditions in the right place for what we needed to be able to develop, it's that we developed the way we did *because* of these conditions... There could very well be life out there in the universe that thrives in temperatures and environments that would kill us... I mean we have bacteria on this planet alone that can easily survive at temperatures hundreds of degrees hotter than what we can tolerate, and feed on metals that would kill us... Life is extremely diverse, we are the way we are *because of* the environment and materials that were available to us, not the other way around...
NL - "Many of those other possibilities could have been tried until, randomly or through gradual change in conditions, the right balance was hit and a stable universe created."
so by using the word try, are you saying there was a someone who actually made an attempt at something?
I'm pretty sure that that's not, in fact, what he's saying... he's saying that life may have sprung up previously in various regions of the universe, and died out, because conditions weren't yet ideal for life to thrive... The universe is still cooling off, systems are still spreading apart from one another, gravitationally isolating smaller clusters of solar systems, etc... The fact that life is thriving at this point may be a sign of a more stable universe now than previously when life may have sprung up and failed to take root... That doesn't imply any kind of guiding or experimenting hand, or the conditions are perfect *for* us to exist, but rather that we exist *because* conditions are perfect for it...
Velveeta: So what you are saying is that somehow the system just happened to work "right" once and we just happened to happen? I would consider that a statement of faith as powerful as any Christian would make concerning his or her belief that it wasn't all just happenstance. There are scientists that freely admit to not having answers and who find the "accident" theory to be rather tenuous. If it is apparent that "secularists" don't have all the answers, then what is wrong with Christians believing that God made everything? Unless, of course, you believe it is essential to make everyone believe the way you do? But a "secularist" wouldn't do that because that is something only us uneducated Christians do, right?
I don't claim to have proof that there isn't a god... However, I don't throw my beliefs behind something supernatural to fill the void of not having the answers... I seek answers through what can be explained via scientific exploration, testing and retesting of hypotheses, observable *facts*... If I were to tell you that I had an invisible friend standing right next to me, and he was shaped like a lion with a giraffe's neck and an elephant trunk, and he breathed fire from it, is that something you would believe without having any evidence of it? If you think that's an absurd question, imagine how it must feel to someone like me for you to think it's absurd that I don't believe in an invisible magical man that predates everything because he's always been here, designed and created everything, and gives even the slightest crap about something as infinitesimal as we are in the grand scheme of the entire universe... Oh yeah, also, this magical invisible man, who predates the universe (because how could a universe exist without a creator?) has no creator himself, but that makes perfect sense because he's god... Oh yeah, also, all other gods that men have dreamed up over the past thousands of years are all wrong and stupid, but this one, this is the right one... I don't think this "accident" just happened once, I'm sure it's happened hundreds or thousands or even millions of times across the entire universe, we just haven't advanced far enough technologically to be able to have encountered any other forms of life out there yet... And I'm sure that once we (inevitably) do, christianity will be once again altered to fit the new view of the universe, wherein man isn't god's pinnacle creation, in his own image, but that we're all his children... The same way dogma is continually altered to include what was once unknown, as it's continually filled in by scientific discoveries and explanation that conflict with its existing view of god...
Mike, not me-
"so by using the word try, are you saying there was a someone who actually made an attempt at something?"
Nope! Just natural 'firings', all either unsuccessful or successful for a limited time in creating a vastly different universe which may have collapsed again until 'our universe's turn' came around. Nothing supernatural needed, but you could make a case for God being the last survivor of a previous universe like Galactus in Marvel comics. That would, at least, be more likely then the 'always been' God.
V, "I seek answers through what can be explained " really what exactly are you doing to seek said answers?
V, "I seek answers through what can be explained " really what exactly are you doing to seek said answers?
Or are you just accepting said answers of a different source.
All this article tries to do is lay the burden of belief upon the person, not upon God. It argues that it's not God's fault that you have trouble believing in him, it's yours. You just can't form correct relationships in life, so no wonder you can't relate to your "Father".
*yawn*
@NL
*yawn*
Isn't it strange how yawning is contagious? And how medical researchers have yet to agree on why many creatures yawn?
Kind of like sleep, although sleep is easier to agree on.....zzzzz.
Sum Dude-
Well, it is a 'tired' argument!
NL, you've hit the nail on the head.
Logic dictates that the burden of proof belongs to the individual making the claim. Clinton (in an egregious, snobbish, condescending manner) attempts to put that burden on the other party – in sum, "If-you-don't-believe-then-it's-your-fault."
AstraNavigo-
Yup, when you already 'know' the answer is Jesus then the Christian has to make Jesus something he or she can believe in, and/or build a firewall against any contradictory information. Applied to anything else this would be considered irrational thinking by the believer, but like any con it's the believer's greed in wanting heaven and the security of Jesus' love that clouds their better judgment.
Have said it before and would say it again“*US* turn to God”and c how things would turn for d better.@ jeff keep it up,fun reading ur thots.
Were you trying to spell 'thoughts', or 'trots'?
He's about as articulate as a case of mayonaise. I have to give the edge to mayo though, cause it's think and lumpy.
Megatron-
So are my trots, especially after eating Mexican food with corn added.
You two should start a comedy tour...and laugh at yourselves some. megatron; were you trying to spell "think" or "thick"....oh sorry, you're a "secularist." You don't make mistakes. LOL!
@megatron
If you're going to criticize someone for being inarticulate, at least be sure to not misspell a word like mayonnaise (hint: you left out a letter).
For everyone else in need of direction, read a bunch of educating books, do some research and in the end whichever belief system has the most empirical evidence and reason behind it, go with it. Plain and simple, folks.
By the way, of course you can tell how I ended up leaning after doing this myself because i used the phrase "empirical evidence".
balarand-
My mom would say about stuff like this that you can either laugh at it, or cry. Sometimes it's good for the ol' emotional health to laugh at such a dire state of affairs.
What exactly happens to you in this "relationship with God"? I understand that you talk to him and consult him on many matters. Does he talk back? Does he tell you anything that you don't already know, or that you couldn't come up with using your imagination? Does he tell you your complete genome sequence, or the intricacies of E=mc2, or what is inside of Arcturus? Or does he tell you things that you would tell yourself if you concentrate and put on your wisdom hat?
Does "God" speak to one person and "tell" him to follow Mohammad and his precepts; but speak to another person and "tell" him that Jesus is the only one to believe? Other people get varying "messages" of truth. Some are even "told" to kill other people by their "God".
I thought that I had this "relationship" at one time, but discovered that it was just an illusion. There is no-one there. You are talking to and hearing yourself.
Lets compare the two ways of decision making.
Secularist
I think upon a problem, weigh the options and select the option I feel is the best given the situation. If others disagree, or find fault with my reasoning, I will take their ideas under consideration and possibly change my mind.
Believer
You think upon a problem, weigh the options and select the option you feel God is guiding you towards. If others disagree, or find fault with your reasoning, they will likely accuse you of being deceived by Satan, in which case you will either conform to their decision out of fear, or counter accuse them of being deceived.
Now, which method is likely to come up with the well-considered solutions to life's problems?
@NL it's even simpler then that.
Secularist: Here's the evidence, what conclusions can we make from this?
Believer: Here's the conclusion, what evidence can we find to support this?
Fundamental difference in thinking.
Megatron-
Or, as one fundie poster put it, even if we atheists could prove we were right, we'd still be wrong. Some of them have put up a complete firewall to shield their minds from logic and reason.
Replying to NL and megatron on decision making:
(snort, cough, hack) Are you SERIOUS? You really believe that "secularists" are so pure and innocent in how they make decisions and wouldn't dream of foisting their ideas upon someone else? Have you two read any of the comments by your fellow "genteel" secularists? Have either of you paid any attention to the Christian bashing that occurs on an almost continual basis all because Christians don't believe the way "secularists" want them to? Talk about being blinded by your own facts.
balarand-
For example, the fact that there are mountains of evidence supporting evolution and that the only objection that some folks have to accepting evolution as fact is that it's their pastor's opinion that evolution contradicts the bible, so therefore it cannot possibly be true. If our stressing to you that evolution is still true is being blinded by our own facts, then yes, because the reason for denying these facts is nothing more than pure stubbornness.
The vast majority of the world believes in God, say these people.
As so many others have asked, which one?
So many to choose from – I feel like a kid in a candy store.
Agdistis, ah puch, ahura mazda, alerich, allah, amaterasu, an , anasi, anat, andvari, ansshar, anu, aphrodite, apollo, apsu, ares, artemis, asclepius, athena, athirat, athart, atlas, baal, ba xian, bacchus, balder, bast, bellona, bergelmir, bes, bixia yuanjin, bragi, brahma, brigit, camaxtli, ceres, ceridwen, cernunnos, chac, chalchiuhtlicue, charun, chemosh, cheng huang, cybele, dagon, damkina, davlin, dawn, demeter, diana, di cang, dionysus, ea, el, enki, enlil, eos, epona, ereskigal, farbauti, fenrir, forseti, freya, freyr, frigg, gaia, ganesha, ganga, garuda, gauri, geb, geong si, guanyin, hades, hathor, hecate, helios, heng-o, hephaestus, hera, hermes, hestia, hod, hoderi, hoori, horus, hotei, huitzilopochtli, hsi-wang-my, hygeia, inanna, into, iris, ishtar, isis, ixtab, izanaki, izanami, jesus, juno, jupiter, juturna, kagutsuchi, kartikeya, khepri, ki, kingu, kinich ahau, kishar, krishna, kuan-yin, kukulcan, lakshmi, leto, liza, loki, lugh, luna, magna mater, maia, marduk, mars, mazu, medb, mercury, mimir, min, minerva, mithras, morrigan, mot, mummu, muses, nammu, nanna, nanse, neith, nemesis, nephthys, neptune, nerhal, ninazu, ninhurzah, nintu, ninurta, njord, nugua, nut, odin, ohkuninushi, ohyamatsumi, orgelmir, osiris, ostara, pan, parvati, phaethon, phoebe, phoebus apollo, pilumnus, poseidon, quetzalcoatl, rama, re, rhea, sabazius, sarasvati, selene, shiva, seshat, set, shamash, shapsu, shen yi, shiva, shu, si-wang-mu, sin, sirona, sol, surya, susanoh, tawaret, tefnut, tezcatlipoca, thanatos, thor, thoth, tiamat, tianhou, tlaloc, tonatiuh, toyo-uke-bime, tyche, tyr, utu, uzume, bevus, vesta, vishnu, volturus, vulcan, xipe, xi-wang-mu, xochipilli, xochiquestzal, yam, yarikh, yhwh, ymir, yu-huang, yum kimil, zeus.
People have believed with absolute certainty that each one of these is real.
They've lived and died by their faith in these fictions.
So tell me again why Jesus is the One True God?
For those who say everyone should seek out Jesus Christ, I'll give you a hint – he can be found between Izanami and Juno.
There will be a day when you realize that He actually stands between death and life...and on that day you WILL declare Him as Lord. Unfortunately, it will be too late for you to declare Him as Savior. And you will, trust me, remember this blog...
@Lionheart I agree completely. He will see the lord, he who created original sin. He who impregnated a virgin woman with himself to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole for a rule he created. The cause of original sin? A man and his wife that he created to be gullible and weak willed was tricked by a serpent that he created into eating a fruit of a tree that he forbade them to eat of but put in a place of easy access.
Yeah, your God makes total sense to me. What I like about his motives is that they're not needlessly complex and moronic.
@lionheart
Why is what you say about your god any more or less credible than what the followers of all those other gods listed above have to say?
Faith?
Every believer of every god has faith.
I think Greg Graffin nicely summed up religion's sales pitch:
"So you say you gotta know why the world goes 'round
and you can't find the truth in the things you've found
and you're scared sh-1tless 'cuz evil abounds
come and join us
well I heard you were looking for a place to fit in
full of adherent people with the same objective
a family to cling to and call brethren
come and join us
all we want to do is change your mind
all you need to do is close your eyes
don't you see the trouble that most people are in
and that they just want you for their own advantage
but I swear to you we're different from all of them
come and join us
I can tell you are lookin' for a way to live
where truth is determined by consensus
full of codified arbitrary directives
come and join us
all we want to have is your small mind
turn it into one of our own kind
you can go through life adrift and alone
desperate, desolate, on your own
but we're lookin' for a few more stalwart clones
so come and join us
we've got spite and dedication as a vehement brew
the world hates us, well we hate them too
but you're exempted of course if you
come and join us
independent, self-contented, revolutionary
intellectual, brave, strong and scholarly
if you're not one of them, you're us already so
come and join us
@Doc Vestibule
I would have said you can find Jesus between "jester" and "jetpack".
If I have to choose to believe in what Greg Graffin says, or what Jesus says, I think I will go with the one everyone knows...
@lionheart LOL. So you choose to go with a concept from someone based on who they are? That's hilarious and explains a lot about your mental capabilities.
LOL!!!!!
Doc, when you list all the gods, something has to leap out at the thinking-man (which doesn't, to those who've drunk the Kool-Aid) – these phantoms are easy to create; they all have a basis in earlier mythology, and to argue the point is like hearing two five-year-olds yell at each other about whose Imaginary Friend has the greater superpowers....
All that and you still have to ask?
So tell me again why Jesus is the One True God?
Now I know why your one of those Athiests which a suppose to have a high IQ... Next....
I'm having a hard time figuring out how people like Tim and Joshua even get published. There are so many glaring errors and unjustified statement within that text, that it is mind boggling. So terribly and poorly written.
First of all, stating that 97% of the world believes in god is awesomely arrogant and completely misguided. If 3% are admitted atheists, that does not mean the remaining 97% believe in the God of Abraham. If we add up Christianity, Judaism and Islam, we sum to roughly 55% of the world. That leaves 45% of the world believing in either nothing, or other gods. I'd love to see your source for 97%, sirs.
Our goal is not to connect with god. That is your goal and you do not speak for everyone – not even other religious people. That, again, is arrogant and selfish of the authors.
I am also aware of the study you reference that we are hard wired for belief in god. It is one team's work and not peer reviewed. It is hardly science and was essentially rejected by the biological community. The latest work in the field was conducted by Sam Harris in his latest book the Moral Landscape. He argues that belief in god is inconsequential to morality, ethics and well-being. It was peer reviewed and biologists are currently working on his thesis – it was not rejected by scientists.
You also missed the point of Hitchens' comments about jumping on the god bandwagon near his inevitable death. He will most certainly be drugged up when his cancer turns terminal and he made these statements while in a clear state of mind, not one that is swirling with the effects of poison and pain killers. You are awfully arrogant again.
You're right, and further I'd like to see the references to studies performed that even gave them the 3% aetheist count.
If we've learned anything from Creationism it's that, when making a claim to a willing audience, preaching to the choir as it were, it doesn't matter if you have actual facts to back up your statements. They're aiming this at people who want to believe it's true. Some may have doubts, but the look at how society treats atheists and would really rather be reassured than give up faith. So, wanting to be reassured they won't be checking up on the 'facts' these guys present.They enjoy the 'story' these guys are telling, and as long as they throw in some 'scientificy' and 'researchy' sounding ideas, they have no reason not to allow themselves to take in what they're hearing.
And your last publication, other than you trivial attempt on this blog, is what?
lionheart – I dont understand what you are getting at? The authors attempt to use Chris Hitchens' thoughts on god and twist them. If one watches the full interview between Hitchens and Cooper, it is very clear what he said, which was left out of the article. Care to explain?
"I'm having a hard time figuring out how people like Tim and Joshua ever get published."
The Imaginary Friend business is huge; that's why. If we were to abandon our morals, ethics, and concern for our fellow man, we could do the same thing – bugger truth for money, and make a good living at it.
Look at Rick Warren for your archetype here – over a million dollars a year, and (by all appearances) all the cheeseburgers and donuts he can eat – and he doesn't have to produce one verifiable fact, one bit of logic, or one result to earn that keep.
I was fuming for a few moments after reading this post, but then it hit me: This isn't a serious attempt on the part of CNN to engage their readers in this debate. It is a cynical ploy to drive web traffic to their site. CNN is more than happy to allow these two boobs to express there facile views on the nature of god because they think it will draw attention. My comment is the evidence that their strategy has work. Good for you. Fool me once...
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, what the hell is your problem?
Fool me, uh, fool me three times and shame on, uh, shame on you for misunderestimating me.
Bravo! It's about time that someone pushed back against these God Haters. Thank you both for exhibiting the bravery to agree with 97 percent of the world population. You bring alot to the debate...
Very funny.
Agreeing with 97% of other people isn't "bravery"... Bravery is having the ability to stand *against* the masses and say "no... that's wrong... I don't care what everybody else says..."
I really good to be ignorarant and so blindsided, yeah if 97% believe in god, first of all was this poll done in the midwest where most of the lest educated people live. Its been proven by at least 4 studies that show a direct relationship between been religious and having a low IQ. So lets all go back in time and believe in miracles and do away with science. What a new world.
The "god haters" have to push back against you "chrizzjun soldiers" since if you had your way we would all go back to the dark ages, live in fear and praise then god everyday for the squalid existence he "blessed" us with . In the interim the most powerful thing we "god haters" have on our side is evolution. If a habitable earth still exists by then mankind will have naturally evolve away from the fear-filled need to conjure a "god" to explain why we and the cosmos exist.
They pushed back nothing, you moron. A hundred years ago, they may have pushed back scientific advance... but luckily, the world isn't AS stupid as it was. It's still pretty stupid, and you're proof of that, but you holy-rollers are losing ground, and you're losing it fast.
The numbers don't really make sense, everything I read points to 16-20% non believers in the world.
John-
Romans 1:18 to 20 states:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."
You see, their bible tells them that everyone does actually believe God exists. There are no non-believers, only deniers. Granted, back then before science, you would be hard pressed to come up with anything but a supernatural answer. It's a different situation entirely now. The real question is why they even bother with surveys to begin with when they already 'know' the answer.
Some "god history",
And where did OT, NT, and Koranic scribes get their "godly" ideas? From the Hitti-tes, Babylonians, Buddhists, Greeks, Macedonians and the Romans!!!!
"Stories circulated to the effect that Alexander of Macedonia was not only the son of Philip II, but also of the god Zeus-Ammon (Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Alexander" 2.1-3.2); Plato was the son of Ariston and the god Apollo (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers 3.1-2), and Augustus was the son of Octavius as well as the god Apollo (Suetonius, Lives o f the Caesars 2.4.1-7). The extraordinary character of these elites reputedly stemmed from both their divine origins and their kingroups. Their kin-groups provided one form of legitimation-political right to the throne and/or social status (thus the importance of Joseph in Matthew's genealogy). Their divine procreation provided another: their honor was divinely ascribed, and their greatness as leaders derived from divine paternity."
From: K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998. p.55
I'm not a psychologist/psychiatrist/etc. but this article and the related book sound like typical pseudo-scientific conflation of religious speculation into supposedly real scientific findings.
Isn't Attachment Theory based on the child/care-giver relationship? How can God be considered a care-giver when there is never any "care" actually "given"? And, how could anyone study such a relationship, or lack thereof? Oh, right, the authors didn't actually perform a study of any kind, as far as I can tell.
Exactly. That's my problem with this article. It approached this subject as if it were going to be a scholarly article, with comparisons shown between relationships and belief in God. Instead, the article threw "facts" around that are completely false and easy to disprove, and made assertions based on religious views rather than any actual truths.
The author wrote:
Remember, the goal is to connect with God, and get to know him for who he really is. This often requires peeling off layers of false core relational beliefs.
I'd say that you first have to find out if a relationship exists. Accepting for the moment of the premise that we're "hardwired" for God, that says nothing about whether or not God actually exists. Why should you believe in him?
The brain is also hardwired to see images in clouds. Does this mean somehow that clouds are shaping themselves into easily recognizable images for us to see? Of course not.
Let's think about the matter logically and not be swayed by things that claim absolutely one way or another.
You said- Let's think about the matter logically and not be swayed by things that claim absolutely one way or another.
Thats exactly right. That goes for believers and non-believers
Dedicating your life to a system of beliefs whose entire premise is that you must believe without having the slightest shred of proof seems very foolish to me. People like to point at the Bible, as if that, in itself, is proof. If it is, then so is every other religious book ever written, and there are many much older than the Bible. I don't have a problem with people's faith, except that the faithful always seem to push, shove, and stuff their views down everyone else's throats. And if you try to engage a religious person in a debate about it, they nearly always resort to quoting dogma from the Bible.
@Megatron – Well said.
Also quoted from article "Just like any other relationship, building intimacy with God requires vulnerability. Honesty. Time. Prayer. Focus. Listening. Journaling. Reading the Bible. Meditating."
Building intimacy with God requires God to exist and only the vunerable will believe. Honesty will lead you away from imaginary beings, only continuing the lie leads you to spending your valuable time on this earth praying to an imaginary being focusing on going to some unknown heaven instead of enjoying the heaven we've already been given, listening to those who want to use your belief in invisible beings to fleece your pockets, journaling your invented spiritual experiences to confirm to yourself you really had one, reading a collection of 2000 year old short stories to validate the belief that you're more than just human and will live on after death, meditating on how you have it right and the rest of the world that doesnt believe in your God must have it wrong because you're so smart you wouldnt pray to a fake God....
@Megatron
I agree. And it's not everyday I agree with a giant robot, either.
"the goal is to connect with God'
Which means find whatever way possible to make the belief in God work for you. Interesting how it doesn't even entertain the possibility of questioning if God actually exists. No, we can't have people wondering about that, can we?
In Response to Meagatron & NL: This book was written for people who already believe in God. The authors are not trying to convince you that there is a God! They are psychologist who already believe in God writing to people who already belive in God....Other books are written to give the evidence & proof for God's existence......In regards to the 97% of people believing in God. This is taken from some poll. Poll's can be wrong! But they did not say the Christian God, they said belief in "God". Which could be Yahweh the Jewish God or Allah the Islamic God (Allah means God in Arabic). They could be talking about the Pantheistic God....The poll just came up w/ the results of 97% of the world believing in some sort of God. (divine being that rules or is over all ...for a rough definition)...Athiesm would be in the minority worldwide.
@NL
Hey Pal...
Shhhhhhhhhhh...!!!!! You don't want to bring that little 'nugget' up. That will ruin the whole thing about believing.
@ Iron will. I apologize if ever a christian tried to force his beliefs upon you. The Bible never commands christians to force their beliefs, but only to share their beliefs. Regarding believing a system of beliefs w/out any proof; Once again, the Bible tells Christians to "test everything." God does not want anybody believing anything w/out proof! Jesus did all of these "signs" to prove he was the Son of God. And God's ultimate proof for people to believe in Jesus was his resurection. So God never asks us to take a leap into the dark! But he asks us to take a step into the light! Just as you would do a thorough check of an investor before you gave him all your money...You should investigate any faith system before you put your eternity into their hands!! Its so wonderful that God has all this proof regarding what is true, and what you can know about Him!
@ david this is why blasphemy was treated with exile and death. preachers didn't force you to believe, but also wouldn't tolerate any sort of rational free-thinking people in the community. These were the witches and so forth. Their fear mongering is still alive today.
@ David -"God does not want anybody believing anything w/out proof!"
Really?
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
"... according to Gallup, 97 percent of the world believes in God. "
I don't see that in the link that was provided in the article.
Back in the 1300's 100% of europeans believed the world was flat. How did that pan out?
I'd agree with you there, Nonimus – the link says 3% are hard-core atheists, but that's not the same as saying 97% believe in God.
Jeff,
That and 4% "Probably does not exist, but not sure" and 2% "No opinion" but the big one is that the Gallup poll in the link is only for America (the US I presume) not the world. I'm not certain how the Buddhists, Hindus, etc. would change these results.
This may seem like splitting hairs "97% of the world" (article above) versus "Eighty-seven percent of Americans are basic believers in the existence of God" (http://www.gallup.com/poll/23470/Who-Believes-God-Who-Doesn%E2%80%99t.aspx) , but it's a simple statistic used twice in the article.
"Back in the 1300's 100% of europeans believed the world was flat. How did that pan out?"
Not true.
Some ancient authorities in the doxographic tradition credited the Greek philosophers Pythagoras, in the 6th century BC, and Parmenides, in the 5th, with recognizing that the Earth is spherical.[38]
Around 330 BC, Aristotle provided observational evidence for the spherical Earth
and on and on
Yes, but they don't all believe in the same god.
Since a study recently stated the 1/4 of the world is Muslim, who believe in Allah, unless you take great liberties with the truth, 97% of people cannot believe in God. Many people, like myself, do not believe in any deity, and make up a large percentage of the population. Reading this article showed a heavily slanted view that favored faith in God. That's fine, but when writing articles, people should stick to some semblance of the truth, using these little odd things called "facts" that religious people generally overlook the need for.
GEEZ. Jaded much ? I just looked at the preview on AMAZON. The RESEARCH IS CITED IN THE BOOK, DUHR.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Attachment-Believe-Feel-About/dp/1439183783/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289589104&sr=8-1
@Ironwil
I LOVE this: "That's fine, but when writing articles, people should stick to some semblance of the truth, using these little odd things called "facts" that religious people generally overlook the need for."
Think what you will about God. But nothing like a little righteous indignation while simultaneously making sweeping grossly stereotypical generalizations. You're SO informed. Gosh I'm envious of you.
There might have been a religious person or two in the world who made a significant contribution. Just maybe. Not that your concerned with "facts."
@Mike said: Some ancient authorities in the doxographic tradition credited the Greek philosophers Pythagoras
So, these people were alive in the 1300's? And fine, it wasn't 100%, it was 99.9999% due tot he lack of education. Sorry for the egregious error on my part.
@Ryan You may want to re-read what he's saying. He's referencing the overlooking of facts in individuals faith. Like how Genesis has been disproven through many different fields of science.
In response to Megatron: Yes Megatron you are correct! Just because everybody believes something, that still does not make it true! In Philosophy they call that, "Appeal to the Nations." If all the nations believe something, that does not necessarily mean that what they believe is true. Case in point is Noah, of Noah's Ark. All believed Noah was wrong, but they latter found out, he & his family were the only ones correct.....No, you're right Megatron. Truth is not established on the basis of if everybody believes it....There are a lot more rigorous test that need to be applied to any belief to test and see if it has any credibility or probability of being believed. I am so glad that Christianity has so much evidence and facts to support it coming from so many angles ie. Design Argument, Moral Argument, Scientific proof: actuality the Bible says that the earth is a sphere!...They should have known their Bible better! ha...also, Psychological proof...we all need love & significance...Archaeological proof, Historical proof..Jesus was a man of history, noted by ancient historians...on & on.
In Response to Megatron again: You said, "Genesis has been disproved by many fields of Science." It would help if you gave an example...I like how the Big Bang Theory has suggested that the Universe has not always existed, that now scientist believe that the Universe had a beginning! Well thousands of years ago Genesis 1:1 said, "In the Beginning"...Looks like science is catching up w/ the Bible!...They also say that the "table of nations" in the book of Genesis is very accurate!...I could go on but will rest. thanks,
Re: "people believing the world was flat..." This was before widespread literacy and Gutenberg's press made the Bible widely available. If those in power had read the Bible they would have learned that the earth is not flat. It specifically calls the earth a "sphere." Too many people argue points when they have never actually read the whole Bible. Those who set out to disprove it through serious academic study (Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and many others) end up strong Christians!!!
"Since a study recently stated the 1/4 of the world is Muslim, who believe in Allah, unless you take great liberties with the truth, 97% of people cannot believe in God."
Could you possibly be any dumber? "Allah" is the Arabic word for God. Your idiot statement is no different than saying that people in Spanish-speaking countries don't believe in God because their word is "Dios."
@Ironwill Since a study recently stated the 1/4 of the world is Muslim, who believe in Allah, unless you take great liberties with the truth, 97% of people cannot believe in God
What? Ok for one, it is the same God, of Isaac and Abraham, that followers of Judaism, Christianity, and those who practice Islam believe in. The trinity, or Jesus, is a different story, Interesting fact for christians or not, Allah, is not the same as God in the sense, it as a word, cannot be made plural, masculine or feminine, and is the closest word from a living language to the Aramaic Ellah, which Jesus would have used when talking of God, or to him.
And how many of us fit "The truth is that many who leave the faith or turn away from God do so because they have come to realize that this [was an] empty relationship with God"? I used to be extremely religious - minister's wife even - and left the faith after every prayer was answered not with blessings but with tribulation. Even the church treated us badly, firing my husband on trumped-up charges, and refusing to take him back when the charges were proven false. God did not protect us, he dumped on us. Some years ago, I had the conversation with God that if He wanted me back, all He had to do was answer one prayer in the affirmative; instead, I got another load of garbage dumped on my head, while the non-Christian women around me, the ones who break all the rules, were getting all the rewards. After 30 years of non-stop disappointments, I did what any rational woman would have done, and divorced Him.
Eiither Gallup is full of s- or people are lying. Besides, I can say I believe in God and that won't change my life a bit. If you want me to say it I'll say it. But that doesn't mean I mean it. If there really is a God (and I happen to believe there is) He really doesn't need your stamp of approval and, with all respect to Billy Graham, He does NOT love you and has no plans for your life.
Around 100% of the population of the world is exposed to propaganda relating to the existence of God from the day they are born.
you can't explain God into an article...
How can one have a relationship with something that doesn't exist. It's like saying "The pear is next to the apple," when there is no apple.
Also most religious scholars (and in medieval times in Europe that is where most scholarship was done) were well aware that the earth was spherical long before Columbus made the case for his trip. The primary disagreement was on how far around the sphere was.
"97% of the world believes in God"
Last time I checked, reality isn't dictated by popular vote.
oh, this is going to be a rich dialog
An overly simplistic view of relationships does not enrich anyone but the guys who wrote the nonsense in the first place.
Selling books these days is hard. Religious authors are only preaching to the choir, but religious people are well-known for being gullible and foolish with their money.
In response to Sum Dude: Yes the authors are preaching to the choir. This book is not an evangelistic book to convert a nonbeliever in to a believer. This book was meant for believers in God, to help them draw closer to God by understanding what type of attachment method they have developed in their life. This book was not meant to convert a non-believer. In regards to believers being gulible with their money; becoming a christian has help me to become more responsible with my money. To pay bills and to save. If someone is trying to become a better person and invest $12.00 to try and do that, that does not seem to me to be a foolish expenditure. Thanks,
@David
Hi David...
You Said....
"@Sum Dude- In regards to believers being gulible with their money; becoming a christian has help me to become more responsible with my money. To pay bills and to save."
Really...? I am curious to hear how 'becoming a christian'=being responsible all of a sudden with your money, and paying your bills and saving.
Sincerely curious...
Peace...
In Response to Peace to All: Thanks for the comment! Well Peace, Christians believe that when you become a Christian, God comes to live on the inside of you. You receive a new nature. He changes your desires & begins to make you into a better person! ie more responsible, more conscientious, more loving, etc. I guess he has helped me to be a more responsible person! In the Bible it says to seek to pay your bills! To not steal from others! To be an honest person! So becoming a christian has given me inspiration to want to be a good person with the little money I have. To try to not buy more than I can afford & to pay for my debts! I hope this answers your question. Huey Lewis wrote a song, "I want a new drug, one that doesn't cost too much." Well now that I have Jesus in me, Peace, I don't have to buy any drugs. I'm already happy! So I save that money as well! Thxs,
@David
So, in your case, you are not, perhaps, foolish with your money, but you are surely gullible. It might not be the nicest thing I could have said to you, but it is the truth. Blowing twelve dollars on a book you could have checked out at the library seems foolish to me, but you obviously have some different ideas about things than I do. Not really much of surprise, is it?
When you can prove God exists to people like me, you will be famous. The media will go wild if you could do this thing.
Realizing that you can do better does not require a delusional belief system, unless you needed the extra motivation like some people do. Have a good weekend.
@ Sum Dude. Well Sum, Thxs for the reply. I usually underline all the good parts in my books & even make notes if need be. I then may come back to the book for key parts I have learned, or may use a quote or two, if the book is good. So $12 is not much for me,,,so certain books just buy....In regards to proofs for God...Thomas Aquinas was made famous for putting on paper some traditional proofs for God's existence!! Aristotle had a proof or two himself! I heard about a guy who was reading a Chapter in the Old Testament, Isaiah 53, and was asking co-workers at Delta Airlines, where the quote came from, and who it was talking about.....Most people guessed correctly that the quote was about Jesus Christ, but most people thought it was the New Testament....They were pretty shocked to find out it was a quote from the Old Testament written c.500yrs before Jesus was born...You ought to check it out for the fun of it!?! Thxs,
@David
Thanks for taking time to reply.
Well, if that belief or model works for you, more power to you. Just an FYI though. You know David, there are a lot of kind, honest, loving, peaceful, moral, non-drug users, bill payin', ethical etc...people in the world who do *not* believe in Jesus. You do know that don't you...? Being a wholesome, happy, giving person is not reserved for the 'believers' of the world. I guessing you most likely already know that, but, since I don't know you as a poster on this blog, I didn't want to a-ssume.
Again, if the Christian thing is working for you... good for you.
Good luck and much happiness in your life.
Peace...
What is this "him" stuff. Do people actually believe there's a man in a robe sitting on a cloud? If there is a "God" it is more likely an energy that connects us all, another dimension of existence. Not some supreme being that magically moves a paper into your hand. God is a metaphor. Bluebirds don't dress us Snow White.
When Galileo proved the copernican theory to be true, the church called it blasphemy and placed him on house arrest. Why would they do this? For fear of their little secret, which gave them power over the people as well as riches beyond imagination, getting out.
just because you want a god don't mean you get one. mick was right.
"In the Bible it says to seek to pay your bills! To not steal from others! To be an honest person! So becoming a christian has given me inspiration to want to be a good person with the little money I have. To try to not buy more than I can afford & to pay for my debts!"
Hilarious. Some of us atheists knew to do that all along. It's called "not being a moron."
Atheists are known to be gullible and foolish with their money as well. Look at how many atheists follow Dawkins and believe whatever he says with no investigation. They buy his book and find that his book is the work of a person who starts with a child-like belief and rants continually like a juvenile and uses the logic of a highschooler.
People are gullible in general.
THIS WHOLE article is a trick....For Hitchens to willfully decide that he will fight off or deny any future existential longing he may develop for God – or shut out any evidence he comes across in favor of God – is grievous. Notice how it puts Hitchens as if he is closed minded, due to not accepting evidence...but see there is no evidence on god, only emotions...no matter how strong your emotions or how much you want there to be a god, there is no god, nor any creditable evidence, this article is worded to trick your mind, its worded to trick weak minds, with making you assume there is great evidence, but notice how the author Tim Clinton doesn't go into the evidence he assumes is out there, this is a bias article and one only to grab at your heart and not your mind....Tim Clinton is closed minded and tried to bring down the few people we have on this planet that are truly open minded and wise...CNN, please find better writers then Mr Clinton
Wow, this is a pathetic article. There is no relationship with god because god is completely imaginary. You cannot have a relationship with ANYTHING that doesn't exist. It would be more meaningful to talk about your relationship with your car, because at least it actually exists! What a waste of words and time this entire article was.
People don't want more God. They want actual proof, so that when the scientist says, "prove it" they don't have to fall back on faith or come up with BS reasons for their actions. Problem is, their reasons are complete BS because there is no proof. There is no proof, because there is no God. This article is a laughable disgrace. Hitchens' remark was grievous, but this "research" certainly is.
@ Peace....Hey Peace, thxs for the reply. In response to your comment, Yes, there are quote "good" people that don't believe in Jesus and are still nice! I think you're one of them! But several questions come up if you don't believe in Jesus, like...how do you determine what is "right, good, bad, or wrong"? Hitler was an athiest and wanted to help out the evolutionary process, so he was killing off the weak people, to help the "survival of the fittest." God tells me to be good, and then he defines what that looks like. If there is no God then Who defines what is good? 2nd, if there is no God then how did this whole world get here and all the people on it? For me, design is proof of a designer! I don't have enough faith to believe that this whole world & everyone in it got here by some cosmic accident/chance. 3rd, Lots of people believe different things, but who is telling "the truth"? We want to know the truth when it comes to our health, bank account, investments, news, legal issues, medication! But many people don't want to know the truth when it comes to Spiritual/Religious matters! I believe that Jesus was telling the truth...and He gave evidence to back it up! Was he lying? Was Mohammed correct? Is Athiesm or Theism or Pantheism correct? I want to know the truth! Through much research & inquiry I have come to believe that Jesus was who he said he was "God Incarnate"....Thxs for your time.
Belief in god is a means to an end. If Mr Hitchens reaches the end without
requiring a method of transport, he is farther along than most of us.
This article about a newly released book is so full of astonishing naivete that I am overwhelmed with just where to begin my reply. With brevity in mind...suggesting that people should accept the existence of God (defined consistently as USA Christian of course) because polls show a majority in this country choose to believe, supports nothing at all let alone that God exists. In a poll in Mississippi in 1910 what do you suppose the "majority" would support regarding civil rights and people of color? My analogy on several levels clearly reinforces that prejudice and bigotry are rampant in 1910 and in 2010 the polls clearly reinforce that a majority of citizens are in serious denial of evidence, or lack thereof!
The authors of this article are making a HUGE assumption that the large percentage of believers in god are absolute theists; people who believe in a biblical god who set everything up and who answers prayers for billions of people, and keeps a close eye on his subjects. Those people may very well be deists, meaning they believe in god that set up the universe and its rules, but who doesn't answer prayers, and who could be more synonymous with universal energy that just "exists" and that's all. The energy-type deist god may as well be close to agnostic or even atheist. Personally, i'm god agnostic in the same way i'm teapot agnostic... i can't disprove that a teapot is orbiting the moon, but it's HIGHLY unlikely. i think the name of god has been used to destroy way too many millions of lives (not just from Christian followers, but from all religions), and i look forward to a day when religion no longer holds us back from the mature, rational, thoughtful, and truly accepting society we can be. i hope i live long enough to see it.
I find the assumption that people who are not relationship centered are shallow or have an inflated view of themselves to be offensive. Not everyone cares about "love and comfort". Those who do not are not dysfunctional people. If anything, those who need something from outside to make themselves complete are dysfunctional.
There is no being greater than humanity because we have not directly observed it. The world is flat.
Wow KC -- that was a statement. I'm very fortunate. It seems like I have to be careful what I pray for -- I always manage to get it in some shape, form, etc.
I enjoyed this article. Whatever the reasons, I believe we all want to believe in something. We may not all agree on who 'GOD' is by definition but I believe it is safe to say we all do believe.
I do not consider myself to be a religious person per say. I carry my definition of religion [love, honestly, caring, passion, compassion, etc] in my heart = my religion. It's very personal and unique. My beliefs are right for me. I would not expect any other to share my beliefs as that would be imposing. I have my beliefs for my reasons. You should have your beliefs for your reasons.
Again -- I enjoyed reading this article. Thank you.
Sara
More god? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Perhaps another round with that inquisition thing, maybe a nice crusade and finish it all off by stoning a few muslims or buddhists. Sounds American enough alright :p
I'm glad to see that the individuals who know best took the time to reply. The confidence some people have in their own reasoning ability is practically remarkable ...on the other hand it's practically insane.
Lord won't you buy me a Mecedes Benz My friends all drive Porsches I must make amends
Christopher Hitchens was merely predicting that he would not to turn on God on his deathbed. For you to judge him 'grievous' for that is the exact kind of arrogance and short-sighted judgementalism that I find so offensive about deists and theocrats. What is grievous, ignorant, and self-centered is that the author of this article is unable to conceive of the notion that someone would want to pass into the death state with ALL of their reason and integrity intact – rather than to submit to the uncertainty of a God's presence. (Becasue none of you 'KNOW' that God is there; no matter how much you pretend to.) And yes; human beings are very much akin to clueless, insecure children when faced with all the mysteries of this wonderful universe. Like children, we all hope to have the option to run into mommie's bosom if we get scared, and yes; that's explains 'God'.
another day, another article reminding us that CNN is about as much a news outlet as TMZ or US Weekly.
Who is God to me? Definitely not a "he."
This is directed at nobody specific...I think that the mere fact that the Universe exists means that God exists, but what we do with that is more frequently a reflection of specific cultural filters more than any genuine attempt to come to terms with 'what all of it really means'-sure I think illness creates an acute sense of mortality and can bring people closer to being spiritual, but whether that carries on back into ordinary life is another question...I like the First Nations view of God...honor the Creator by respecting his good works..spend more time in nature and count your lucky stars. Peace.
People who have faced adversity and pulled through, are usually more inclined to believe in god than those who didn't overcome their hardships. It kind of skews the numbers as the silence of those lost is at times forgotten by the newly converted.
A continual belief in God is not a problem when after your quest for God, you found him and experienced him in a way that no amount of logic or philosophical arguments can explain it away. I, for one, used to doubt the existence of God until I tried to search for him with all my heart .And He revealed himself to me not once but many times and the greatest lesson I learned is on how to put my trust in God who cannot be seen with the physical eyes nor understood by the natural mind. I am now a pastor who would like to share my story and experiences to those who really thirst and hunger for reality of God.
This has to be the most stupidest article about why people beleive in god I have ever read. Its total nonsence. First off, faith is NOT fact. There is no proof that god exist. There is no geologic evidence that any of the stories in the bible ever happend. If there is, religious fundamentalist made it up as they always do.
As an athiest I dont believe in god because there is no proof he was ever here. Not because of my relationship styles. What total hogwash.
What a bunch pure psychobabble! Pure bullsh.t! Tim Clinton and Joshua Straub are a couple of typical christian propagandists in the business of selling yet another pulp fiction pop-culture book marketed to large numbers of gullible people. ($$$) It’s funny how they like to cleverly use forced-inclusion buzzwords like ‘let’s’, ‘people’, ‘we’, ‘us’, ‘our’ and ‘challenge’, as in “Perhaps it’s time to challenge our beliefs about God.” (‘Our’ of course actually meaning ‘your’ – translation: buy ‘our’ book.) CNN are really stooping to new lows as to consider this garbage as newsworthy. The only psychology you need in life is confidence and common sense and if you have that, you won’t devolve into a religious nut like these two jerks.
“When we understand our relationship with God in light of attachment research… “ Attachment research!? Ha ha ha ha haa,.. Excuse me while I fall from my chair laughing.
“Our spiritual journeys are linked to core relational beliefs established early in life…” Core relational beliefs!? What the f.ck in the world are you talking about?
“97 percent of people believe in god?” 97 percent? In your dreams guys! If 97 percent already belive in ‘god’, why then are religions so damned anxious to convert the other three percent? “We are not trying to establish religious beliefs.” Yeah….. sure you’re not.
American Association of Christian Counselors = pseudo authority! $$$.
@Robby...How the hell do you know what a nonexistant god wants? Your long winded response is typical of someone who thinks and beleives in an "imaginary Friend". Trying to validate your faith by making up nonsence such as yours makes you look very comical. Simple god=simple mind.
Well, the trouble is always faith is taken as a head trip, attachment or not. Psychology and research presented here are a head trip. As if our reality with the divine can be righted if only we somehow gain a right perspective. That is patently false and invalid. No surveys and statistics will prove or disprove God.
David, (not meaning davidp or David Johnson)
I've enjoyed your words. I do not understand most things, I have reserved my judgement on most issues discussed above, but I am observant to notice that you speak helpfully, while most of the others attack, use fallacious arguments, and seem to attempt to justify themselves. I've noticed that you're different. If you happen to read this, would you give me some more resources? Things that I can look at and read? or maybe a way to contact you outside of this article?
I'm sure any comments to my post will be very interesting and I look forward to them.
Thanks in advance David.
I say to each their own. Live and let live. This world can be beautiful, it can be ugly. All you can do is the best you know and hopefully a little more. To me, God is in evolution (and not in the creationalist sense). God is not a man, but energy. Religion is man's perversion of truth. Not to say it's all bad. But it's def. not all good. All we really need to do is start being better to each other.
Isn't it possible to come from a happy, functional family, have a positive view of self and have secure relationships WITHOUT "god" being in the picture?? Religious beliefs should not be connected to psychological health. These authors are horribly mistaken to take such a position. There are many of us healthy, ethical, responsible atheists out there. If one has a history of healthy attachment, one may not need a god at all!
"For Hitchens to willfully decide that he will fight off or deny any future existential longing he may develop for God – or shut out any evidence he comes across in favor of God – is grievous."
This is statement is totally without merit. having seen an interview with Hitchens not too long ago, he has stated that his disbelief in God will not change, and if it is written at the end, he changed his mind..do not believe it. He was not NOT talking about shutting out evidence.. no Atheist would ever make that statement. We all look for evidence of God, even if we don't believe. Most of us non believers are that way for lack of logical evidence of a personal God.
@David
Hi again David..! Don't know if you will make it back to this thread/conversation, as their has been a lot of posters here, but I wanted to thank you for the civil discussion we have been engaged in. Thanks..!!
So......
You Said--–
..."@ Peace2All....Hey Peace, thxs for the reply. In response to your comment, Yes, there are quote "good" people that don't believe in Jesus and are still nice! I think you're one of them!"
ME--Thanks David...!!!
You Said---
"But several questions come up if you don't believe in Jesus, like...how do you determine what is "right, good, bad, or wrong"?"
ME-–Well David, I would suggest that no one 'needs' Jesus to have to tell them *not* to just go out and r-ape, k-ill, steal, a-ssault someone, etc... David, before you knew of or became a born-again Christian, ... How did you stop yourself from 'murdering' someone...?
What I am saying is that I know that some people think that if you don't believe in 'Jesus' somehow everyone will be ki-lling everyone else or something.
No God/Jesus is actually required to *know* that it is not o.k. to murder someone, or commit other heinous crimes.
Now, I understand that a lot of Christians seem to feel that Jesus is needed to *know* what to do and what not to do. I 'believe' that if you were to do an experiment, and just remove 'Jesus' from the picture, I believe that 'you' would not go out and murder people. Am I right on that...? Just curious.
I guess ultimately, for some of us, we don't need the threat of 'eternal dam-nation and the carrot of 'heaven' for us to know what to do and what not to do.
You Said--–
"2nd, if there is no God then how did this whole world get here and all the people on it? For me, design is proof of a designer!"
ME--Don't necessarily want to get into a 'cosmological' discussion. Lets just say that you have a 'belief' about this. It doesn't mean it is fact. But, if that works for you to believe, as I said before. Coooool...!!
You Said---
"I don't have enough faith to believe that this whole world & everyone in it got here by some cosmic accident/chance."
ME-- But, apparently you have enough 'faith' to believe in a 'supernatural' being, without evidence...? To, say that all you have to do is look around and you see God everywhere.... remember that is still your 'interpretation' and 'belief.' It doesn't make it true.
You Said-–
"3rd, Lots of people believe different things, but who is telling "the truth"? We want to know the truth when it comes to our health, bank account, investments, news, legal issues, medication! But many people don't want to know the truth when it comes to Spiritual/Religious matters! I believe that Jesus was telling the truth...and He gave evidence to back it up! Was he lying? Was Mohammed correct? Is Athiesm or Theism or Pantheism correct? I want to know the truth! Through much research & inquiry I have come to believe that Jesus was who he said he was "God Incarnate"....Thxs for your time."
ME-- Again, obviously you 'believe'... which is your right, however, it doesn't necessarily mean your 'beliefs' are *absolute fact*
But, David... again, good luck to you...
Peace...
Am I religous? No. But, when you ask if I am spiritual or if I believe in a higher power, then I say that I do. I do believe and have much faith in God. So, I suppose that what I truely want to express is that I believe in God only. I have a nasty view of the Bible and Christianity itself. I detest how it paints God in a negatiy light (My view point). So do most people have a problem with how God may be or how people are told by other people "how God is"?
@Kyle
I am sincerely curious about your posting. I quite honestly don't understand 'exactly' what you are trying to say, or ask, other than that you believe in 'God' only.
If you come back, if you could elaborate, I would love to hear it.
Thanks,
Peace...
Hmmm. I grew up with very secure warm, loving relationship with my parents, and had a secure personal relationship with Santa Claus. Then I became an adult and found reason.
"building intimacy with God requires vulnerability. Honesty. Time. Prayer. Focus. Listening. Journaling. Reading the Bible. Meditating."
YES!
After that take Christ's advice and love those around you.
This why I believe that because of significant disparities within Americas educational system, the ignorant belief that god still exists remains prevalent.
There is nothing that God could do to prove his existence. For example, if he were to show up beside me and create a gun by clapping his hands, I would say "wow, you gotta teach me that trick" and ask the alien what planet it's from while pointing the gun at his alien head. Miracle is but a lack of understanding. There is no place for a god in this universe. If I were to see the second coming of Jesus exactly as it's written on the bible, that would not make me believe in god. I would simply congratulate the aliens for turning our best work of fiction against us and offer my goods and services for their supreme technological advancement.
Thank you so much for this article. As a psychotherapist and Christian I have often wondered how our sense of attachment plays out in our relationship with God. Attachment theory was first named by Bowlby...so these authors did not discover it, but rather are applying it to how we attach to God. Attachment styles affect how we attach to friends, spouses and those important in our lives. They also can determine how we say good-bye. I work with individuals who often have attachment wounds that play out in their relationships causing problems. Mr. Clinton –keep up the good work..
We believe in God among other thing for security, especially when it is difficult to believe the guy next to you. No planning will help sometime. So to overcome the grief or frustration we need someone within us to console us. The relation or attachment to God will be felt only by right thinking people
Leave it up to Cnn to start another argument about religion. Leave it alone. Let people beleive what they want to beleive. Stop stirring the pot.There is enough division in the country already!!!
HOW COME ADAM HAS A BELLY BUTTON?
religion is ignorance and church a fantastic bussinnes. How much this guru charge for books, conferences and tv programs: BILLIONS, over a 150 billions per year and no TAX.
buddhism as a way of life teaches me how to be connected to the phenomenon or to understand the nature of reality. when i gave up believing in a god i was terrified. my security blanket was gone. now i look at any religion that believes in a god as infantile and silly. keep your blanket but there is no god who will help you but yourself and fellow man. plus, at least buddhism says to be at one with all living creatures, which christianity doesn't. major shortcoming.
The remarks about Christopher Hitchens were most completely offensive. Christopher Hitchens, like millions of other people including myself have come to the logical and rational conclusion that the invisible man in the sky does not exist, that's despite growing up in a world where the irrational and the mystical and imaginary are taught as being real and existent. Indeed, the Religious minded folks take as proof the existence of their invisible man in the sky anytime an Atheist dies or nears death to the point of lying about 'death bed conversions' and whatever other imagined stories you all may make up to further your own faulty belief structures. That is what Christopher Hitchens was referring to, he knows your ilk and knows that the same as you can imagine all sorts of stories to further your faith, you can and will imagine even more stories to tell about Christopher Hitchens and other nonbelievers. You all need to take your imaginary friends and go play in the corner and leave rational thought and thinking to people who actually engage in it rather than further embarrassing yourselves with your blatherings.
What an offensive piece of tripe that was - looking down upon a man with terminal cancer who has devoted himself to rational thought.
As biologist and blogger PZ Myers wrote about Hitchens' interview with Anderson Cooper:
"It was a very short interview, but Hitchens was clear: the only way there will be a deathbed conversion is if he's rendered irrational and babbling with pain, and concedes that the person who dies could very well be someone very different from the living Hitch. But while he's lucid, he's adamant: he doesn't believe in gods at all.
It is a relevant point, though, that the ghouls of Christianity do rely on catching their prey in the weakest, most desperate, most damaged point in people's lives, when they're at their least rational.
There is no pride or honor in a deathbed conversion. Christians revel in them because they are shameless and dishonorable."
Root of all evil is fear. When we are most afraid, is when we feal that all is lost is that God has abandonned us. This is why people who are emotionally secure are more likely to feel God is with them, and why people who cannot relate to God engage in sinful, fear based behaviors such as promiscuity, intolerance, predjudice, arrogance. Dictating to others is and invoking God as to justify agendas is to turn away from God, to speak for him, is a fearful behavior and weak. Greed and jealously are fearful behaviors.
This is why a person who walks with the Lord exhibits no such bad behavior and has no need to do so. Indeed being fearful and /or feeling a need to engage in fearful behavior is wher we start out as infants and is primal repsonse to anything and everything, because the fear center is the only part of the brain that is available for use to be able to reacte to things, really. It is a weakened state those who stay in a fearful state, that, as they are relying on only a small, weak part of their brain, and in turn their power, by embracing fear these sad, pitiable individuals are truely weak as what they choose to rely on is the weakest part of them! This is why people who are arrogant like Hilary Clintion and President Obama, are not strong they are the weakest among us, to be pitied and encouraged to find God-because they need to.
If this wasn't about converting, why start the article talking about atheists?
CNN needs to stick to news and leave the proselytizing to missionaries and priests!
I'll take less god, please.
"For Hitchens to willfully decide that he will fight off or deny any future existential longing he may develop for God – or shut out any evidence he comes across in favor of God – is grievous."
It is this language, rooted in judgment and blame, that keeps me away from religion. the religious say that they "know" more about me (in this case hitchens) than i know of myself – all without having a conversation with me, or an attempt to understand my position, which is provide evidence (if all things were created, then it is fair for me to ask "who created god?"). yet the reply is condescending incredulousness: either you believe, or youre in a "grievous" situation.
this is a horrible mind game that only religions get away with.
Personally the people writing this are typical christians. Take for instance...at the begining of the article they claim that polls indicate "91% believe in a god" then at the end its "97%". Some jump in number, as making a mistake, guess they dont care enough about the subject to proof read it. As a side note all the polls i have seen dont place it that high, and point out that alternate and athism are actually increasing. The theory why is that people are becoming more free to express their actual feelings on the subject instead of behaving like sheep and bleeting what they think will allow them to fit in with the flock.
When considering that only 3%-5% of the population is truly "intelligent," I'm not surprised that 97% percent of the population believes in god. For some, it seems common sense that the fascination people have with god is simply a reflection of their own need for approval, affection, or otherwise which was not adequately given by their parents. For others, it takes an article with research and statistics to bring the obvious to light.
Yeah, it is really rich misusing and misrepresenting attachment theory. Would you ask your plumber about knitting? Well then maybe you shouldn't ask a Fundie about psychological theory!
Bad science and pop-religion, CNN I'm dissapointed!!
This is awesome material!!! So much of christianity focuses on right and wrong, rather than the heart of a person. When we understand that our actions are largely determined by our past, then we can help each other in life, not based on behavior only but how we can change from the inside out. This whole concept of attachment styles is so helpful to me as a pastor in understanding people. It helps me to look beyond the behavior of a person and look at the heart issues that are affecting the behavior. It has transformed my life in ministry to a much greater compassion for people, instead of trying to change people through rules and regulations. Dr Clinton you are awesome!!! keep up the good work
God is not a he.
I believe that the missing link in this article is that people have not read who God says He is in His Word. The more we know God, the more we will trust Him even if outcomes are not what we would like. We will have trials, it says so in the Bible and I do agree with them in that our view of God determines the perception of our trials.
Lisa,
Many (if not most) non-believers have read the Bible (some have studied it quite extensively). They do not believe that these are the words of a "God" - they are the words of primitive Middle Eastern men, trying to make sense of their world. Those words are no more "inspired by a god" than were Aesop's words or Dr. Seuss's. The Bible is a work of historical fiction, myth, legend, fantasy and superst!tion. It contains *some* pearls of wisdom for practical human behavior, but that doesn't mean that the stories of the supernatural are truth.
Just finished a book study on this book with a grouo of 8 to 10. Everyone gave the book a good review. One person discovered why she kept going back to a relationship she knew was not good for her. I found the book helpful.
Referring to "Yet in their spiritual thirst, many people hit a wall when faced with a crisis in life: a cancer diagnosis, a divorce, a car accident, a natural disaster or a job loss. Too often, they feel distant from God and have a hard time believing he will be there for them when they need him most." in your article.....our 30-year old daughter and her two children, 6 & 8, were killed in an auto accident almost seven years. I cried out to God immediately. I know He was with me , carrying me, or I wouldn't have been able to bear such a thing.
I wish this discussion was interesting, but reasoned discourse seems to be a lost art. Why can't we discuss the ideas presented without the vitriol and animosity of personal attacks? Whether a person chooses to accept or reject the ideas expressed by the author there is no need to attack his (their) motives. And the presumption that ones opinion is so much superior to those with whom you disagree does not lead to much exchange of information. Can we learn to discuss ideas without denegrating comments, so both sides of a discussion can learn from the other? Otherwise we end up generating a lot of heat without shedding any light on the subject considered.
When I first noticed this article, I thought, "wow, somone sure dropped some money for an ad on CNN", it comes across more as a sales pitch than a serious, newsworthy article, like so much of the modern Christian movement.
sorry, I stopped drinking THAT Koolaid a long time ago.
I am sorry very sorry, for anyone that does not believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Someday God is going to take his loving hand off this world and it will be late to turn to Him for any kind of help. Believers will never ever stop talking about Jesus Christ. We are as Christians called to continue the good fight for Jesus no matter what oppositions that we endure. We will continue to sing unto Him forever. We will continue to spread the Good News. We will not keep it to ourselves. God is not just Love He is far more. I can say this because I have immediate family members, that may end up in Hell, people that I love. Do I hate God for this? No, because God has given them plenty of time to except Him as the Son of God. He most certainly has not blinded them. He shows them everyday in nature, that He is creator, no one but God could have created such a beautiful universe. People enlighten your minds! Jesus Lives.