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November 13th, 2010
10:47 PM ET

Pastor says student's suicide was tipping point for his coming out

The founder and pastor of a Georgia megachurch said Saturday that the September suicide of a Rutgers University student was the tipping point for his decision to come out of the closet to his congregation.

"For some reason, his situation was kind of the tipping point with me," said Jim Swilley, who calls himself a bishop. "There comes a point in your life where you say - how much time do we have left in our lives? Are we going to be authentic or not?"

Rutgers student Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped off a bridge after a secretly-taped sexual encounter between him and another man was posted on the internet.

Swilley, 52, said that he has known he is gay since childhood, but that he never thought he would live openly. He came out recently after more than 20 years of marriage to his former wife, who continues to work at their church.

"At a certain point, you are who you are," said Swilley, who has four children from two marriages.

He ministers at the Church in the Now, an inter-donominational Christian church in Conyers, Georgia, about 25 miles east of Atlanta.

"What I told my church is that I was given two things in my life that I didn't ask for... one is the call of God in my life and the other is my orientation. I didn't ever think that those two things could be compatible," Swilley said.

On the whole, he said his congregation has been supportive of his coming out, though some people have cut ties with him over the decision.

Homosexuality is a hotly contested issue by many faith traditions.

Earlier this month, Gene Robinson - the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal Church - said that death threats and the continued controversy around his selection contributed to his decision to announce his retirement.

Speaking specifically about evangelicals, Swilley said gay people are sometimes seen as trying to build a movement, or "recruiting" - views he took serious issue with.

"My position is not about gaying up the church," he said. "It's about people being who they are."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Georgia • Homosexuality • United States

soundoff (977 Responses)
  1. ilovegays

    haha..whoever thinks this man is a disgrace,YOU,my friends,are disgraces.not to god,to everyone.how dare you comment on anyones orientation.i wish the worst for all that think that way,because youre horrible people whos opinions do not matter whatsoever.go make something of your life instead of spreading your hate to people who dont deserve it,theres MUCH worse things going on in this world and you care that strongly about a gay person?well you make me sick.gay is gay,no one is going to change that.

    November 14, 2010 at 1:33 am |
    • Rico53

      You don`t get it do you ,this is not some average person ,this is a teacher of GODS word , this is the problem , he is in direct disobedience to GOD .How can this man lead his congregation to learn and obey GODS law when he openly commits an abomination , he is a hypocrit before his congregation and an abomination before GOD. If this was a neighbor or a coworker who was not a pastor, i would only have to say ,its your life and your choice go your own way and be happy ,but he isn`t he is responsible for teaching his congregation how to obey GOD not committing abominations before him..

      Let me ask you all do you want your children shooting up heroin ,hell no so are you gonna go do heroin then teach your kids not to do it . If you cannot practise what you preach ,then you should not be a preacher.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:20 am |
  2. kathy

    It is very sad to read how much hate there is in this world! While others starve and fight for rights we judge and take for granted what we have.

    November 14, 2010 at 1:26 am |
  3. Mosque Lover

    Down with the republicans and puritanical right wingers who would deny civil rights to all gods creatures!

    November 14, 2010 at 1:24 am |
    • Hellscreamgold

      Hmm – given your "name", if you are Islamic...well, they treat gays worse than anyone else...

      November 14, 2010 at 8:48 am |
  4. jamie seely

    U so called reliogious hypocryts that are judging this man and condeming him for admitting he is gay...shame on you!!!! thats why i do not attend church to many phonie judgmental idiots!!! good for him for coming out and good for the people in his church that stuck by him...to everyone else leaving negative comments....glad u r all perfect!!!!!. congrats!!!! hugs to the minister glad u no longer have to live a lie!! u r a hero!!!

    November 14, 2010 at 1:18 am |
    • Rico53

      Leviticus 18:22 Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind ,this is an abomination, since when is ok for pastor to ignore GODS law

      November 14, 2010 at 10:04 am |
    • YBP

      @Rico53. Rico, you must be aware that there is a heck of a lot more in Leviticus that you do not believe or follow to the letter. Don't be a hypocrite. And seeing that you feel this strongly about this particular subject, I have to assume that you are struggling with your own orientation. Good luck with that.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:16 am |
  5. Art

    @Name*Chedar. With all your "sharpness" how it it you haven't comprehended the insightful posts about tolerence ?? Technology is all well and good, however, you can't explain Love, Hope, Caring, Forgivness, Trust OR faith with "String Theory". Reach even higher than intelligence, only there can you experience the highest Realm attainable in our tiny life cycle. Don't be afraid to believe there just MAY be somthing more, not neccessarly RELIGEON, or FAITH as it manifested by the tribes of Mankind, only then will you find your own place in all of this, and with that, finally, PEACE. Good Luck on our journey!

    November 14, 2010 at 1:11 am |
    • Mr Anderson

      Word!! Art...word..\../ rock on.. We will all be in the same line..

      November 14, 2010 at 1:32 am |
    • BradLW

      HMMMMMMMMM!!!

      "Reach even higher than intelligence . . ."

      Art; please explain to all of us what things you have come to believe that you didn't acquire through your natural intelligence. Without consciousness(intelligence) none of us would have any awareness and therefore might as well not be because we would effectively be "brain dead".

      For goodness sake go study some biology and physics!

      November 14, 2010 at 7:50 am |
  6. Name*Chedar

    You guys should sharpen up your science related to string theory and quantum mechanics. You can easily understand why we do not need God to create this world just like what Stephen Hawkins say

    November 14, 2010 at 12:47 am |
    • wonderment

      I take it your understanding of string theory and quantum mechanics is really sharp . . . OR maybe you just glommed onto the hype surrounding some new book.

      I wonder which . . .

      November 14, 2010 at 1:10 am |
    • chris

      There is also evidence that a bumble bee should not be able to fly because the size of his wings in proportion to his body, etc. And yet he still does. I'm just saying.....

      November 14, 2010 at 9:52 am |
    • Rico53

      Cheddar ,you think everything in our universe happened by chance ,humm have you ever considered the importance of the number "3",consider this
      1. The holy trinity ,the father ,the son and the holy spirit "3"
      2.1/3 of the us in heaven sided with lucifer 2/3 did not "3"
      3. there are 3 ages the first has passed , we are in the second ,and the 3rd is yet to come "3"
      4 The earth 3rd planet from the sun "3"
      5 2/3 of the planet covered in water ,1/3 land "3"
      6 untill recently we had 9 planets 9 divide by 3 eqauls 3 , "3"
      7 the most common element in the universe is hydrogen ,hydrogen has but 3 particles 1 proton ,1 neutron , 1 electron , "3'
      8. Earth is approx 93 million miles from earth , divide that by 3 and you get 3.1 , the first 2 digits in PHI(3.1414)

      i can go on and on with this , do you still think everything in the universe is chance , get real the evidence of creation is everywhere.
      I believe GOD used a form of math( which we do not have the smarts to figure out yet) to create the universe . Look at the significance of PHI ,and accident ? use the intellegence GOD gave you and open you eyes to the possibilty that GOD (the father of science) used math to create all of this.
      The rest of our universe is there to hold everything together, just as everything on earth is symbiotic to something else ,the food chain for example,for the world to keep going we all depend on something else to survive ,this applys to the universe as well for earth to survive it depends on the gravity affect of the other planets to stay in place , this works for our solar system as well, our solar system is dependent on the others in our galaxy to stay in place , and so this also goes further and applys to galaxies as well ,our milky way depends our neighboring galaxy andromida and so on and so on .
      Just the way GOD planned for it to work.
      You see the universe from a scientests point of view , you follow the facts, but i say to you GOD is the author of science and mathamatics.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:56 am |
    • Menage e trois

      THREE MEANS A LOT OF FUN TOO

      2/3 of all mathematical statistics are made up 1/3 of the time!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:31 am |
    • Mike

      @Rico
      Sorry – Hydrogen may be the most abundant element in the universe, but has only 2 particles, a proton, and an electron. Deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen has 1 proton, 1 neutron, and 1 electron, and makes up less than 1% of the total naturally occurring hydrogen that we know of.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:28 am |
    • Jb

      Since math equations can apparently synthesize matter out of thin air, I'm gonna go try to equate some money for myself.

      And then maybe I'll use long division to possibly create the knowledge @Rico needs to spell correctly...

      Probably not though...

      November 14, 2010 at 1:26 pm |
  7. Open heart

    As christian our goal is to embrace all, judge not and try to lead by example. Folks that hide in the closet do so due to hateful people hurting them. Perhaps we'd have less cases of gay pastors coming out of the closet 20 years after the fact if we just loved all Gods creatures. We may not agree with their lifestyle but its Gods place to judge them not us. Love is a power that can change the world .... maybe if we all shared some of it, these situations wouldn't occur.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:45 am |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Open Heart

      Well, your god has already judged us. The jailer leading the prisoner to the gas chamber is not the judge, he is just carrying out the judges orders. Likewise, the christians do not judge us, their god already has...they are just carrying out the orders. This so-called Gay pastor is a traitor to his own kind, and has massed even more against us with his works. The god he chose will burn him in his hell, and many of us gays say "good riddance, Burn traitor, burn."

      November 14, 2010 at 1:38 am |
    • Jimcracky

      Wow, Kelly, you just proved Open Heart's point perfectly; hateful, judgmental people like you drive people into the closet, into shame and into suicide. And you rejoice at the evil you do. Could your post drip with more obvious hate? You positively rejoice at the idea of someone in torment, wanting to clap and dance around the flames. How hateful is that?

      November 14, 2010 at 6:05 am |
    • BradLW

      Kelly:

      Now what good did YOU JUST DO for the gay and lesbian community with your own hatefulness?

      November 14, 2010 at 7:41 am |
    • PJ

      @kelly, imagine if the devil spoke the words of hate? Woundn't they sound just like the words YOU just used?

      November 14, 2010 at 8:02 am |
    • agw

      All this double-talk by "Christians"!

      They tout loving everyone without judgment, all the while saying they "don't agree" with how a gay person lives out their life. Doesn't disagreement mean that one has judged?

      Also, why do "Christians" resort to scriptures/fables/parables to force people to live in fear?
      Where is it said to use the "Bible" in such a threatening, scary and mean-spirited manner?

      And, if being a "Christian" is such a blessed, better way to live, they why do so many "Christians" fault/fear those who are non-Christian or live contrary to Christian beliefs? Why do "Christians" feel so threatened?

      Finally, if worldly sin is truly between an individual and "God," then why don't "Christians" leave it that way and stop acting like "God?"

      November 14, 2010 at 8:35 am |
    • auguron

      All Christians know is double talk. The time has come to see through their lies, see them for who they really are. Wretched, malevolent individuals who want nothing more then domination of all humanity, and wish death upon all who differ from them.

      I for one, wish this pastor would see this. Or at least see the responses from those foul excuses for humans condemning him for simply existiing.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:55 am |
    • Rico53

      OpenHeart GOD never told us to hate them , only what they are doing.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:29 am |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Jimcracky
      @BradLW
      @PJ

      Oh, I don't hate him, I hate what he does to help the god that hates us, and helps him build his army against us. He made his choice when he chose the christian god and turned his back on us. How would a Jew feel about one of their own that became an SS officer? How would an African-American feel about one of their light-skinned bretheren that joined the Klann, and recruited for them and grew their numbers, and even more enemies of his own kind? Now you know how a very big majority of us Gays feel about someone like this pastor. He can be forgiven by us, however. Renounce the cult of hate, and join the fellowship that will welcome him back with open arms. Amongst us, it is up to us to judge our own kind, and no business of our enemies what we do with them, or how we treat them. There are no closets amongst us...his closet was of his own making, and he was not hiding in it because of us.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:01 am |
  8. CarolinaGirl

    The Spirit of God abounds in a broken heart which I believe Pastor Swilley likely experienced throughout his years of internal conflict between his inclined nature and the call to ministry. I do not agree with his choice to conceal his orientation yet understand why he did so and applaud the choice to be truthful now. This pastor reminds me of woman at the well in the book of John. She was truthful with Christ about her past and present condition...her "sin". Jesus told her the Father was looking for people just like her that were willing to worship Him in spirit and in truth (about themselves). Oh that more of us "Christ followers" would dare be scandalously transparent about our struggles. As Billy Graham suggested, let God judge, the Holy Spirit convict and people love. May His grace continue to be sufficient.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:30 am |
    • CR1

      You fogot to mention that Jesus told her to go and sin no more. This pastor is doing the opposite he is openly declaring that he will continue to sin.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:58 am |
    • Jaime

      I can't believe you people still believe in this stuff? So many religions: all used for control, to make people feel like theyre working toward something. Youre all a bunch of sheep. Its scary, why dont some of you look at the history of religion and just realize its all junk, explanations for things we dont comprehend. Im not saying god doesnt exist, but man made organized religion is ridiculous and does more harm then good. Lets see here....wars, check...bigotry, check....Hatred, check....idiocy, check....blocking the progression of science, check....forcing your ways on others through the enactment of laws based on religious beliefs, check. Yeah, a heck of a lot of good your faith does there on this planet. If there is a god then half of you are screwed, if not more than half.

      November 14, 2010 at 3:37 am |
    • Jerry

      Excellent response, I mirror your every thoughts to the T..

      November 14, 2010 at 7:10 am |
    • BradLW

      cr1"

      So, what; you're going to next recommend that someone "stone" him to death?

      November 14, 2010 at 7:36 am |
  9. jillian cast...

    To all those holier than thou types.....judging someone is a sin. So what, he gay. Doesn't have anything to do with satan. At least he came out with it and isn't just taking an altar boy behind closed doors

    November 14, 2010 at 12:21 am |
    • Rico53

      illian cast...

      To all those holier than thou types...

      you are guilty of judging me right here, practice what you preach jillian

      November 14, 2010 at 9:19 am |
    • Bugmenot

      Says you it ain't got nuthin' to do with Satan

      November 14, 2010 at 3:03 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Rico: jillian has not declared herself Christian so she is not subject to your rules. If you do declare yourself Christian then you must make good on judging not.

      November 15, 2010 at 10:39 am |
  10. Art

    Name calling, bullying, pontificating, rationalizing, pondering, judging...... It doesn't mean a thing. People should stop trying and just accept the fact that people cannot be forced to accept that which they do not believe is right. EVERYONE has the right to believe what they do in AMERICA. It's just as wrong for us to judge others as it is for others to judge us. BOTH SIDES of this arguement have valid points. So will everybody just stop the useless Bickering and just agree that we disagree? Let's at least TRY to be Civil and Respectful for the sake of our Children. Too show tolerence on BOTH SIDES. We MUST raise them with love and guidance, without Hate, and let them decide their own paths.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:13 am |
    • Frogist

      @Art: I second your call for respectful interaction. But I do not side with you that both sides hae valid arguments. The majority religious right argument against gays has no relevance or basis in reality. It is fear and ignorance masquerading in the guise of religion. And that is never valid.

      November 15, 2010 at 10:36 am |
  11. Jay LaFrance

    It took a lot of courage to come out. I commend you. God loves us all.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:11 am |
  12. Josh

    Good for you Mr. Swilley, no man or woman should ever be ashamed nor oppressed to be themselves. It is downright disheartening to see anyone shunned for doing the things that make them happy, of course without harming others. People are unique, we all do not share the same beliefs as others and no one should be expected to.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:09 am |
    • Jb

      Agreed, my enlightened friend.

      November 14, 2010 at 5:18 am |
    • Mike, not me

      "Good for you Mr. Swilley, no man or woman should ever be ashamed nor oppressed to be themselves." does that include bully, thieves, Christians, beastiality, pedophiles, arsons-ers, terrorist.... and the list goes on.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:37 am |
    • KDW31

      @ mike, not me: All the things you listed hurt other people. Being g-ay does not hurt anyone else. If you can't see the difference there is no hope for your ability to form a logical thought about anything.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Mike, not me: Seems you decided to pick and choose without learning the whole meaning of Josh's post. Re-read it and you will recognize that he has already addressed your concerns.

      November 15, 2010 at 10:33 am |
    • Mike, not me

      Speeding, Christins,(still on the list), greed, beastaility (still on the list),

      November 15, 2010 at 12:22 pm |
  13. sad

    So it states in the bible " do not judge or you to will be judged" which means that dont judge that man when its his time to meet the lord he will be the only one to pass judgement on him. Im not saying u have to agree with his choices but dont judge him for you will be judged!

    November 14, 2010 at 12:09 am |
    • John

      Sad.....This is often quoted, that Christians should not judge others. But this is not true, Jesus speaks of this judging pertaining to appearances or judging that will not help others. (Matthew 7:1), or if we are engaged in the same sin, we are not to judge (Romans 2:1-3). Jesus speaks of forgiveness, love, mercy, but also wants all to live according to HIS will. Hopefully these versus will help you...John 7:24, Matthew 7:15-20, 2 Thes. 3:6, Romans 16:17,

      November 14, 2010 at 1:45 am |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Sad,

      The christians are not judging us, their god already has. The jailer is not the judge, he just carries out his orders. Likewise, the christians are not the judge, they are just carrying out their gods orders. If they truly are capable of "loving" us, in that cold "gotta because the bible tells me to" way, then that is their burden when they carry out the sentence, not an excuse not to do so.

      November 14, 2010 at 2:04 am |
    • Justina

      Christians are commanded to judge what is right and wrong and to condemn sinners for their behaviors. Read Matthew 7:15-23 and I Corinthians 6:2,3

      November 14, 2010 at 4:19 am |
    • chicagogam

      justina: what part of the koran is that in? oh wrong book? sorry get them confused...

      November 14, 2010 at 5:33 am |
    • BradLW

      justina:

      1611 KJV

      How about this:

      Matthew

      {7:1} Judge not, that ye be not judged. {7:2} For with
      what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
      measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. {7:3}
      And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s
      eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
      {7:4} Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out
      the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine
      own eye? {7:5} Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out
      of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
      the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

      or this

      Luke

      {6:36} Be ye therefore
      merciful, as your Father also is merciful. {6:37} Judge not,
      and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be
      condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

      or this

      Luke

      {12:13} And one of the company said unto him, Master,
      speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
      {12:14} And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge
      or a divider over you?

      or this

      John

      {12:47} And if any man hear
      my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not
      to judge the world, but to save the world. {12:48} He that
      rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that
      judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall
      judge him in the last day.

      Enough! Please go learn what is really in your bible. Get yourself a searchable copy of your bible so that you can find all of the verses which contain a root word such as "judge". You might accidentally learn some things.

      November 14, 2010 at 7:28 am |
    • Joe

      Nice work Brad!! The best wayt to counter lies and misinformation is with the very text the Devil is using to try to divide us

      November 14, 2010 at 8:16 am |
    • scott501

      @Justina @John...Thanks, because of your posts i will NEVER step foot in a church and i am getting rid of my bible. Have a nice Sunday and remember being gay is worse than your sins!??????????

      November 14, 2010 at 8:34 am |
    • Rico53

      Brad ,what you quoted proves the point , this pastor has a huge beam in his eyes ,and as long as its there he cannot help a single member of his congregation till he removes the beam from his own eye( his beam is lying with men as with women).

      November 14, 2010 at 9:15 am |
    • Mike, not me

      BradLW, don't forget 1 Corithians 5, when brining a fellow Christian to repentance

      1 It is actually reported that there is s-exual immorality among you, and such s-exual immorality as is not even named[a] among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.[b]
      6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.[c] 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:32 am |
    • chris

      This verse is often misinterpreted. Christians are to hold other proclaiming Christians accountable for their sins. Look in Hebrews. We are supposed to confront our "brother" and if he refused to repent of his sin, we bring him before the church, and if he still refuses to repent, we are to no longer have fellowship with him. Christians are not responsible to judge those who are not proclaiming Christians. That's God's job.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:43 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Kelly Garrett

      You are right. But the funny thing is, that the believers can't prove the god they are obeying even exists. They judge by a book that was written by men, who were reflecting the morality and thoughts of their day.

      Their Jesus predicted he would be back in the 1st century. He hasn't been seen for 2000+ years. Jesus was just a man, if he existed at all. He was crucified. This was a common punishment. It wasn't reserved just for messiahs. He is dead. Even if he survived the crucifixion, he would have died of old age by now.

      Jesus ain't comin' back no more, no more...

      All believers want to start a conversation with the assumption that their god exists. That is silly. Proving their god exists is job #1. Then we can talk about what that god says.

      Happy Trails!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:24 am |
    • BradLW

      Rico53:

      Since you seem to believe the language in Leviticus, are you going to be one of the first ones in line to stone the man to death?

      I suggest that you spend more time removing the "beams" from your own eyes!

      November 14, 2010 at 12:07 pm |
  14. B. A.

    Are any of them straight? One more hypocritical preacher-type gay guy. How can these people live such lies and think that God doesn't care that they are liars in his name? It is evil to be deceitful and to the level as to portray oneself as in touch with the holy of holies. I do not believe God lives in a deceitful heart. If you've ever lived in absolute truthfulness, you know the creepy crawly sick feeling when you even think you might lie. This preacher has been a fake all his life. Good role model.

    November 14, 2010 at 12:05 am |
    • Jb

      Maybe he lived his "lie" of a life in fear or worthless, unaccepting "religious" types like you. Accept that the world changes and get over your close-minded mentalities. You're born as you are, no one can change that.

      November 14, 2010 at 5:08 am |
    • BradLW

      "If you've ever lived in absolute truthfulness . . ."

      I'm sure that, if you have children, you told them at the age of three or so that there is no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy and no xtian god.

      November 14, 2010 at 6:55 am |
    • jp

      It is always funny how only small versus and quotes are revealed from the bible. Time to read the whole think from cover to cover. It also talks about adultery and stoning woman and a woman shall be obedient to her husband?! so best to read the whole thing and take it all literally if you must. I am a christian, but wow not a holy roller that hates others! Im also gay and live my life as so.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:07 am |
    • Rico53

      The members of this congregation will suffer for this as long as they let this guy preach.Again let me say ,if this was just some guy who came out ,no problem its his life ,his choice, but this is a man intrusted to teach Gods law as it is written ,a pastor cannot commit this abomination and still teach ,he must repent or get out of the pulpit. His congregation will suffer for his abominations before the LORD.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:07 am |
    • Frogist

      @B.A.: "It is evil to be deceitful and to the level as to portray oneself as in touch with the holy of holies."
      Except maybe he wasn't being deceitful. Maybe because you have so many of your religious leaders coming out or being outed means your god is more accepting than you are. Maybe it's his will. You should not pass judgment about deceit because it is only god who can speak judgment. When you speak for god, you run the risk of not hearing him speaking for himself. And maybe, just maybe he's saying, gays are OK with God. And God is OK with gays.

      November 15, 2010 at 10:26 am |
    • Jim_Catholic

      Confession is a good thing. Confess the sin and try to live better. God loves the sinner, but not the sin. We don't judge the sinner, but we must teach all people what kind of behavior is "sinful" and "righteous". We must help the sinner to change their ways. The last thing we should do is redefine sin. Read Isaiah 5:20

      November 30, 2010 at 9:21 am |
  15. matt

    dogs know what Is natural. does this guy?

    November 14, 2010 at 12:04 am |
    • Chuck

      Male animals (including dogs) get it on with other male animals all the time. So yes, dogs do know what is natural. Only ignorant humans are confused.

      November 14, 2010 at 6:59 am |
    • thereason

      My dog humps my leg...want a turn?

      November 14, 2010 at 7:02 am |
    • Chuck

      Only if you have really nice legs. I'm pretty picky.

      November 14, 2010 at 7:05 am |
    • thereason

      They're great man legs, I would do them if I were a dog...

      November 14, 2010 at 7:14 am |
    • Chuck

      Lol. Truth be told, I have a wonderful boyfriend. Thanks though.

      November 14, 2010 at 7:27 am |
    • Rico53

      Yea Chuck dogs do that ,and they also go around say hi by sniffing each others butts ,you gonna do that too
      Chuck.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:01 am |
    • scott501

      @Matt......good point! the pastor should be doing it w/ a pillow like my dog.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:32 pm |
    • Chuck

      Wow, you guys are what, like... bottom 30%? Cool, cool, it's nice to mingle with the handicapable.

      November 15, 2010 at 6:54 am |
  16. Sum Dude

    How ironic that he thinks being a pastor is still okay after all he has done and all he has gone through.
    Is coming out of the closet the only thing he could figure out to do? Two marriages, a worthless Bible, hate-filled Christians, etc, and he is still a pastor?
    He's a clueless one, he is. Closet-less, perhaps, but clueless all the same.

    November 13, 2010 at 11:58 pm |
    • BradLW

      And you would have done something different if you had grown up at the same time this person did? Highly doubtful!

      November 14, 2010 at 6:46 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Sum Dude
      Hey brotha' I like your post, and.... I think that maybe I have taken a different approach on this. You know what my stance is about you 'fundies', so I think you know what I have written below, is co-ming from a good place, and I see a trans-formation happening. Something 'good' c-oming from this. 'Hopefully.'

      You Said:

      "How ironic that he thinks being a pastor is still okay after all he has done and all he has gone through."

      In my opinion, being a Pastor, and owning up to being who he/she really is, takes a lot of courage. The fact that he did it. And told the truth now, vs. in the beginning is irrelevant. He did it, and this is a progressive change in the world of Christianity... a lot of people are quote feeling same and courageous to "c-ome out". I can only think that this is a good thing.

      You Said:

      "Is coming out of the closet the only thing he could figure out to do? Two marriages, a worthless Bible, hate-filled Christians, etc, and he is still a pastor?
      He's a clueless one, he is. Closet-less, perhaps, but clueless all the same."

      Maybe not... Depends on how you look at him. Seems to me, he has done the honorable, just, and authentic thing. He is one more person, who is helping to revolutionize the equality of gays and everyone else.

      And...

      I believe it to be a good thing that this Pastor has c-ome out, and has declared his authenticity. Maybe, that will encourage more gay's to c-ome out and own who they really are without shame, guilt, or people of so-called 'faith' telling them they are horrible people who are going to burn in hell forever... or... that they are p-e-dophiles, just because they are gay. If this can also c-ontribute to less suicides, because of fundamentalist zealot Christian clergy, parents, teachers, etc.. that is fantastic. So, I don't see any down-side to this.

      Especially for the Christians, for your 'faith' to truly survive, you will need to change your att-itudes about gays.

      It is already happening with an ever-increasing number of Americans being more accepting, and you are also seeing a greater number of Christian denominations starting to be more accepting and tolerant–treating gays as equals, even having gay and lesbian clergy. Your 'beliefs' about people need to move into the 21st century and beyond, if you are to carry on Jesus' messages of peace, love, acceptance, tolerance, etc...

      This *is* absolutely a good-thing. I sincerely hope that this opens the door for a major change in our society.

      Anyways, that is some of my thoughts on the issue 'bro'.... I haven't had a chance to say hi..! Hope that you are well...! 🙂

      Peace...

      November 14, 2010 at 10:22 am |
    • Sum Dude

      @Peace2All
      Hey, bro!
      Houarye!
      Thanks for your response! Sorry it took me so long to run across it, these threads are getting too long. They need to start closing off comments after a certain point – it would neaten things up a bit.
      As for the pastor in question, I'm not saying he couldn't get a clue someday, I'm just sayin there seems to be a definite lack in that department at this time. People can change. Sometimes for the better. Now he's hopefully on the right track, as you say, and maybe we will hear of his resignation someday, as well.
      But I was calling for even more in the way of intelligent actions. I don't want him to stop now! Not after "seeing" a bit of sense and doing ONE right thing. He's got a big list of ethical problems to work his way through. He's just getting started and has gotten national attention – maybe he will buck the trend and become motivated to do more and better things.
      I am doing a bit of prodding with my satirical sarcasm. I am not guaranteeing results, just tossing a few copper-plated pennies out there.
      So we agree yet again...as long as we explain ourselves to death. It seems to work after a fashion. 😀
      Osh!

      November 15, 2010 at 2:14 am |
    • Sum Dude

      @BradLW
      Would you like to explain what you mean by your post? If you are trying to call me a hypocrite, you'll have to do better than that.

      November 15, 2010 at 2:18 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Sum Dude

      Hey it's my bro'.... 'King Dudester'...! What's happening my long lost friend. Seems that we have been missing each other on the threads lately. So, many 'fundies' so little time.

      I hope that you are doing well...?

      Yes, I am agreeing that we are pretty much always in agreement..... Do you agree...? Of course you do. And, it seems that we are in agreement yet again. Maybe, since we seem to be of very like minds, we should go back to 'fundie wars'...? 🙂

      Actually, though, while we seem to be in agreement, I always seem to get something from your perspective. Hope that it is mutual for you too. Makes me think about things just a little bit different. I like it..!

      It is always, a pleasure catching up with you, and reading your 'scathing' and 'intelligent' posts.

      Let's try to catch up a little more often. If I see you posting, I will try and catch you with a response or something.

      Us 'fundies' need to stick together, so we can be out savin' souls...!!! 😯 -Love that... thanks.. one of my faves. now...!!!

      Catch ya' later... friend.

      Peace

      November 15, 2010 at 2:41 am |
    • jerry

      the funny thing is,is that a peron comes out and says they are gay and they are a hero and A

      November 15, 2010 at 6:55 am |
  17. TheRationale

    Religions do a great job of making people feel awful for being who they are.

    November 13, 2010 at 11:49 pm |
    • wonderment

      . . . and Jesus Christ does a great job making redeemed sinners feel wonderful about who they are in Him.

      Sin's curse paid in full, Christ's righteousness made our own, His Spirit present with us as a helper and a deposit on our new life, our failures diminishing in significance as we acknowledge the sinfulness of our sins and dedicate ourselves to turning away from them and pressing on in good works and the knowledge of the grace of God - so much more cause for hope than is gained by simply drawing the bullseye aroung one's current location and saying "I have arrived."

      November 14, 2010 at 12:09 am |
    • Adam

      In my younger days, i used to be catholic. Grew up catholic, church every sunday, yada yada .

      I read the religious doctrination that people post on here, and its SCARY. For one, who talks like that??

      FOR EXAMPLE: "Sin's curse paid in full, Christ's righteousness made our own, His Spirit present with us as a helper and a deposit on our new life, our failures diminishing in significance as we acknowledge the sinfulness of our sins and dedicate ourselves to turning away from them...."

      ^^THAT SCARES ME! people thinking like this utterly freaks me out. Anyone with me on this?

      You uber religious people need to wake up and realize you are living off a book written when it was okay to sell your daughter or stone your wife to death if she wasnt a virgin upon marriage.

      Get a clue people, man wrote the bible. Man used the bible to control the masses. The church is the largest and most profitable, untaxed business to ever be created.

      WELL DONE!

      November 14, 2010 at 5:30 am |
    • melody

      To Adam: You comments are awesome!!! I wished more people would come to realized the same! It drives me crazy how people take what they want out of the Bible, but not listen to the other parts then say the Bible is the words to live by.

      I hope more people would come out! People need to see that gay community is just like everyone and we are everywhere. We are the people next to you, we're your boss, coworker, doctor, police, EMT, etc... we have not harmed you. So stop harming our youth! Give us the small rights & respect. Then get over it!

      November 14, 2010 at 7:57 am |
    • CedarTree

      P.S. God's holiness is not "meant" to be a bad thing. If we are not sinning, we'd want God to be just, to punish someone who hurt us or our family. Some ultimate examples are Hitler and Stalin. Deep down, we want justice and know that such people don't get away with such crimes against humanity. It's just that we minimize our own crimes against humanity in our mind. God is just and loving at the same time.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:37 am |
    • wonderment

      Melody: it's ironic that you think Adam's comment was "awesome," considering that it was explicitly fear-mongering and bigoted, and he neglected to engage any ideas in a serious way.

      As for the idea of the church being this large money-making business, if he knew anything about the particular congregation I belong to, it would be clear what a off-base statment that was; yet he tosses a generalized statement out there as if he were describing all churches. But of course, he was just expressing prejudice based on his childhood inoculation against religion (hence "yada yada").

      November 14, 2010 at 9:30 am |
    • TH

      To Adam: Amen! I can't stand people quoting the bible to prove a point. If they did any research at ALL about their own religion they would wonder why they follow it. I truly believe we would have peace if we had no religion to start wars or give a reason to cast down others. I think the Golden Rule does a much better job then the Bible ever did.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:38 am |
    • Momof3

      Adam: you are so right! I have questioned the Bible and its many language/version translations over the years. For those who want to follow Christianity, we have the 10 Commandments. They're pretty stable and the last I recall there wasn't one that said, "Love everyone (except for those gay people!).

      As far as this pastor. He needs to go. He lied to his congregation for years. Gay or not, that's being deceitful and you can't be a leader and a liar at the same time. He knew the rules going in. If he didn't qualify, he shouldn't haven't applied.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:43 am |
    • Peace2All

      I believe it to be a good thing that this Pastor has c-ome out, and has declared his authenticity. Maybe, that will encourage more gay's to c-ome out and own who they really are without shame, guilt, or people of so-called 'faith' telling them they are horrible people who are going to burn in hell forever... or... that they are p-e-dophiles, just because they are gay. If this can also c-ontribute to less suicides, because of fundamentalist zealot Christian clergy, parents, teachers, etc.. that is fantastic. So, I don't see any down-side to this.

      Especially for the Christians, for your 'faith' to truly survive, you will need to change your att-itudes about gays.

      It is already happening with an ever-increasing number of Americans being more accepting, and you are also seeing a greater number of Christian denominations starting to be more accepting and tolerant–treating gays as equals, even having gay and lesbian clergy. Your 'beliefs' about people need to move into the 21st century and beyond, if you are to carry on Jesus' messages of peace, love, acceptance, tolerance, etc...

      This *is* absolutely a good-thing. I sincerely hope that this opens the door for a major change in our society.

      Peace...

      November 14, 2010 at 10:09 am |
    • raw

      @TH: Do you mean this Golden Rule?: "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:31, New International Version

      November 14, 2010 at 10:55 am |
    • David Johnson

      @melody

      Well said! I am straight. I play cards with a gay couple, every friday night. They are my friends.

      I support gay rights. Many "straight" people are starting to realize, "the gay" is not contagious.

      God Bless You!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:09 am |
    • gato

      They do that, believing that if they continue to point their fingers at the "sinners" long enough, they will successfully deflect ANY attention from themselves, thus revealing THEIR sinful habits, thoughts, and behaviors. These hypocritical Christians are the ones living in the dark. The Pastor has chosen to live in the light! SINS AND ALL. NAKED. He will leave this earth "Naked as he came into it. So will these so called "Christians". Only difference is, THEY will be naked AND ashamed.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:42 am |
    • Bugmenot

      Rationalists do a great job of blaming the consequences of their choices on everything and everyone instead of taking responsibility for making them themselves.

      November 14, 2010 at 2:26 pm |
    • CedarTree

      Funny, I posted earlier about how, if anything, Christianity was the first religion to treat women fairly. St. Paul calls women joint heirs with men. And Jesus, a rabbi, speaks to women with a past - an absolute no-no for rabbis in that day. And yet people think Christianity is anti-women, etc. That may be what the popular press tells you but not the truth if you look beyond the superficial headlines. Popular perceptions of the "God of the Bible" and Jesus and the gospel, etc. are so misguided and uninformed - and yet people judge this religion with hardly any understanding of it. Why would my earlier post disappear? I suppose presenting a clear and historically accurate argument is threatening to someone. The truth is the scariest thing around.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:56 pm |
  18. DanteX

    Wow.

    Amazing – As in the phrase "Amazing Grace" that is.

    I wonder when will people ever come to realize that our extremely finite and limited minds will NEVER comprehend the fact that God -in His INFINTE POWER and WISDOM- made us ALL and that NONE of us are perfect – Yet God KNEW us BEFORE He formed us in the womb.

    Better to live the TRUTH as you KNOW it to be so – Rather than hide behind A LIE that you WISH was NOT so at all.

    November 13, 2010 at 11:33 pm |
    • wonderment

      "Amazing Grace," as expressed both in the hymn and in biblical doctrine, refers not to God simply ignoring sins, but to His paying a tremendous price – the price incurred by sin – to redeem sinners. And the sinners who benefit from this also do not ignore the significance of sin, but repent of it – over a lifetime of repentances, as needed.

      The fact that someone has a tendency or particularly stong temptation to commit a particular sin does not justify committing it. Christians are called to walk in light rather than in darkness, and to abide in Christ rather than in sin. A pastor who follows Christ does not call for people to simply be "who they are" according to their old, sinful nature, but calls them to walk in newness of life. Jesus did not preach forgiveness apart from repentance.

      The truly loving thing to do for a person who has an inclination to a particular sin is to graciously call him to repentance, not encourage him to store up wrath by continuing in unrepented sin. This should be the message of faithful Christians to this pastor.

      November 13, 2010 at 11:57 pm |
    • wonderment

      SD: If there's one doctrine that is easily verified by simply observing the real world around us, it is the doctrine of original sin.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:13 am |
    • Supernova15290

      Sum Dude, just thought i'd tell you. You're an idiot bro.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:28 am |
    • oleg

      DanteX,
      From my point of view the evil creates things to get in god's way, to pull people from truthfulness. if we go the gay way, the evil will prevail.

      November 14, 2010 at 1:41 am |
    • Justina

      Sum Dude, the Bible says, "To the filthy people, nothing is clean." You just proved it by your filth. Perverts think everyone else is a pervert like themselves, but there are plenty normal people out there.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:13 am |
    • BradLW

      Hmmmmmmm:

      "Yet God KNEW us BEFORE He formed us in the womb."

      Somehow I have been laboring under the impression that Adam was made from "...the dust..." and that Eve was either made from "...the dust..." or from one of Adam's ribs(minor conflict in the xtian bible). Since it is quite apparent that god no longer takes a day to day active roll in the world, how did/does "He" form us in the womb? Gosh: all my life I have been laboring under the delusion that procreation was a matter of natural biology; guess I better ask for forgiveness; NOT!!!

      Speaking of Adam and Eve, if the xtian god is/was omniscient, why did he/she have to call out to find Adam in the garden?

      November 14, 2010 at 6:39 am |
    • Hellscreamgold

      @BradLW:

      Why did God call out to Adam? Because he was testing Adam.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:43 am |
    • Rico53

      Brad , he really didn`t have to call for them ,the thing was he already knew they had disobeyed him and took the fruit of the tree of good and evil ( by the way this tree was Lucifer not really a tree),( the tree of life that was in the garden was really Jesus Christ) he called for them just like any parent who knows there child did something wrong but wanted to see how that child would respond,they chose to hide from their shame. God didn`t build a wall of protection around them ,Luclfer was free to walk the earth in those days even to enter the garden of eden, God will certainly guide your life if you ask ,but since the creation of all the other races on the 6 th day of creation (Adam and Eve were created on the 8th day )God has given us the right to choose ,obedience or sin , we decide where we spend eternity.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:46 am |
    • thebibleisclear

      @ Rico53– You should try reading the whole bible, the seventh day hasn't ended yet, and Acts 17:26 says God "made out of one man EVERY nation of men". You miss the point of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad–it was just a tree, but it represented a very simple choice–would Adam and Eve choose to obey God, or would they choose to decide for themselves. We know they chose the latter bringing on the mess we have today.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:58 am |
    • Peace2All

      I believe it to be a good thing that this Pastor has c-ome out, and has declared his authenticity. Maybe, that will encourage more gay's to c-ome out and own who they really are without shame, guilt, or people of so-called 'faith' telling them they are horrible people who are going to burn in hell forever... or... that they are p-e-dophiles, just because they are gay. If this can also c-ontribute to less suicides, because of fundamentalist zealot Christian clergy, parents, teachers, etc.. that is fantastic. So, I don't see any down-side to this.

      Especially for the Christians, for your 'faith' to truly survive, you will need to change your att-itudes about gays.

      It is already happening with an ever-increasing number of Americans being more accepting, and you are also seeing a greater number of Christian denominations starting to be more accepting and tolerant–treating gays as equals, even having gay and lesbian clergy.

      This *is* absolutely a good-thing. I sincerely hope that this opens the door for a major change in our society.

      Peace...

      November 14, 2010 at 10:06 am |
    • Dawn

      Dante, I've been thinking that for a long time. These people claim their god is the most powerful omnipotence in the history of forever, yet they themselves blaspheme their own god by trying to pretend that they could know all of this god's thoughts or intentions based on an old book of fables!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:47 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Supernova15290

      You said: "Sum Dude, just thought i'd tell you. You're an idiot bro."

      You shouldn't be so quick to call names. Attack what Sum Dude writes, not Sum Dude.

      But I caution you, Sum Dude will maul you.

      Cheers!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:01 am |
    • BradLW

      Hellscreamgold:

      I think you have failed to think through the ramifications of the xtian god being omniscient. god had to know exactly where Adam was and what response Adam was going to give because god had preprogrammed it that way. I fail to see where the "test" is. And don't go into "free will" because the xtian god's omniscience precludes that from the beginning; you have to give up one or the other or you have no chance of a valid argument.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:00 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @wonderment

      You said, " If there's one doctrine that is easily verified by simply observing the real world around us, it is the doctrine of original sin."

      It is not verifiable by observation. Evolution rules out the Creation Story as the cause of the diversity of organisms on the planet. These organisms include man.

      If there was no Creation Week, then there was no Adam And Eve. If there was no Adam and Eve, then there was no original sin. If there was no original sin, then there was no need for a redeemer. So, where does that leave Christianity? LOL

      Don't believe in Evolution? Then, how do you explain all the transitional fossils, of which there are a ton? Did god just keep creating organisms until He got it right?

      Our own bodies have many signs of our evolutionary heritage. When we get goose bumps, our bodies are trying to keep warm by raising hairs that are no longer dense enough to help. The muscles that allow us to wiggle our ears are of no use for us, but they did help some distant ancestors. Humans also have many other useless, vestigial organs such as nip_ples and mammary glands on males (like all mammals) and the tailbone, which is just a holdover from when our primate ancestors actually had tails millions of years ago.

      Many other species also have obvious useless, vestigial organs:
      • Flightless birds such as kiwis and ostriches have vestigial wings.
      • Some whales still have vestigial legs and pelvic bones, as noted above.
      • Some fish which live in caves are blind but still have vestigial eyes.
      • Dandelions reproduce without fertilization and basically clone themselves; altho they have the proper organs necessary for $exual reproduction, they do not use them.

      Happy Trails!

      November 14, 2010 at 1:34 pm |
  19. Alexia

    I believe that coming in the open is the best thing he could of done he lived by the bible for a very long time and all though gays are not accepted doesnt mean me nor anyone should judge someone because of that reason. Being rude or mean towards them is just as bad as racsim.

    November 13, 2010 at 11:31 pm |
    • Q

      When one is born with "in between" reproductive organs, what should their orientation be? If there is a spectrum of the physical parts, why can you not envision a similar dis-associated spectrum in behavioral predispositions?

      November 14, 2010 at 1:09 am |
    • Richard

      Is English a second language to people here? Get this; forget your religious manias and accepting gays, go get an education.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:38 am |
    • sane

      isn't it logical to believe that only gay people know whether he or she is born gay? and the fact that every gay person states that he or she was born that way seems to be proof enough... but i guess if it contradicts your beliefs, the only logical thing to do is rebuke it so your head doesn't explode.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:39 am |
    • Veritas

      Actually, livinbecauseofgod, you are born gay. You may want to get an education before posting in the future. And by education I mean one that invovles biology and psychology textbooks rather than the Bible.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:40 am |
    • SKyle

      livinbecauseofgod, you are absolutely, 100% incorrect. people are born just as gay as they are black, white, brown or yellow. perhaps if you spent as much time educating yourself as you do wasting time pushing some bigoted, myopic agenda, you might have known this already.

      November 14, 2010 at 4:45 am |
    • chicagogam

      you are not born gay? hmm read any articles on it? science ones i mean...i'm not going to go into it, but how the hell would you know? i was, and every male gay i've known to comment one way or the other on it, has never done it as a choice, perhaps there are a few out there..like there are a few who choose to be left handed..but read a little about it, don't just guess. if you mean choose to ACT on our orientation, then that's sort of true..your religion is a choice but people respect that. it actually shouldn't matter if its bio or learned, choice or not choice. but as it turns out the evidence is there that it is heavily influenced y biology, and as for the choice of how to live it out..that should be respected too. hopefully you'll listen to someone who has first hand experience rather than just guess at reality.

      November 14, 2010 at 5:27 am |
    • The Savior Himself

      @Q,

      I used to believe that ho_mo_se_uality was mostly a product of social situations but I now realize (and have witnessed through others) that it isn't. Nature and evolution exist because of wildly fluctuating genes – and constantly moving genetic definitions.

      November 14, 2010 at 7:36 am |
    • Dennis

      @ DON ELLIOTT

      Do you beat your slaves the correct way the bible details you to?

      November 14, 2010 at 8:06 am |
    • nwg

      "coming in the open" is discouraged in Christian churches

      November 14, 2010 at 8:16 am |
    • Rico53

      Sane ,your missing the whole point , if this was just some guy on the street ,fine his life his choice , but he isn`t this guy is a pastor who is responsible for the teaching of every member of his flock ,this is why this is not acceptable ,he chose to teach Gods word ,not to selectively obey this law and ignore that one ,he is obligated to teach Gods law as it is written, if this pastor thinks its ok to ignore that law ,does he and his congregation think its ok to ignore the 10 commandments too ,those are also Gods laws , so if this pastor thinks its ok to ignore Lev 18 :22 then maybe murder is ok with him too .
      Obeying Gods law is not racism , God does not hate gays only what they are doing.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:22 am |
    • Rico53

      Dennis do your homework , Gods law required that his people treat their slaves with respect and kindness, he NEVER ADVOCATED BEATING THEM.

      November 14, 2010 at 8:31 am |
    • thebibleisclear

      @ Q- In this day and age a simple genetic test will tell you what should have been. Then the inherited imperfection can be corrected by doctors. There really is no ambiguity it is as simple as X-Y

      November 14, 2010 at 8:52 am |
    • Oran Hammonds

      If someone came out of the closet and said they were a Liar, and knew they were a Liar since childhood, what would you say to that? I'd say they embraced their sin, made themselves comfortable commiting it in the open and doesn't care what others say about it. Be careful where you stand on this issue. In a world where you are "born this way" ,takes the "free will" concept and throws it out the door. It may not be too long from now when genetisists tell us that all the sins of the world are results of genes and that people are "born that way" and you must accept them because they were "born that way". Just think of how many politicians would "come out of the closet" and say they were liars. They would stay in office for sure. There would be far too many to throw out of office. It may even be illegal to throw them out for that reason at that time.

      Do not embrace your sin. It does not define you. You have free will, you can change.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:30 am |
    • SKSK

      Coming in the open? Really? Come on. Proofread, people!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:31 am |
    • jkd2

      thebibleisclear

      @ Q- In this day and age a simple genetic test will tell you what should have been. Then the inherited imperfection can be corrected by doctors. There really is no ambiguity it is as simple as X-Y
      November 14, 2010 at 8:52 am
      -------------------------

      You know, there IS Biology after high school.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:37 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Q

      You said: "When one is born with "in between" reproductive organs, what should their orientation be? "

      Hmmm... Well, Woody Allen once said, "Bi$exuality immediately doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night."

      Cheers!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:57 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Rico53

      When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

      Your god lacks morals, dude.

      Cheers!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:05 am |
    • Dan

      @Sane

      The truly ridiculous thing about your comment is the fact that gays have only been claiming to be born that way for a very short time historically. There is no evidence of ho-mo-se xuals claiming such a thing prior to the latter half of the twentieth century. To say that we should believe that they are born that way because it is currently fashionable to say so is preposterous.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:42 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Dan

      Your argument is trash.

      I am a hetero$exual. I like women. Nothing could change that. I never made a choice to like girls. When I was around 12 or 13, I discovered girls were nifty. This was not a thing I could control. It just was.

      Gay people did not make a choice to be gay, any more than I did to be straight. Who would choose to be ridiculed, beaten, murdered and hated?

      Gays are born gay, just as I was born hetero$exual.

      Your god was a blood thirsty murderer of men, women and children, including babies. He is immoral.

      Have a great day!

      November 14, 2010 at 1:13 pm |
    • Frogist

      @thebibleisclear: There is a great deal of moral ambiguity when you talk about shaping another persons genit-alia to meet social standards of what we believe people should be. Better to let the person decide themselves when they are old enough rather than rushing into surgery to make us feel better about gender stereotypes. Why not just let these people be as they choose to be? Instead of inflicting our own black-and-white social agenda on them. Many find they are perfectly happy being "in between" and retaining sensation, than being assigned to one side or the other and losing the full function of their parts.

      November 15, 2010 at 10:08 am |
    • James Dean

      There are worst things to be. Being damned is a pretty good example. Being a Christian isn't about what YOU think you should be. It isn't open to compromise. Read the book. Jesus wasn't a wishy washy feel good hippie. Read the book.

      November 22, 2010 at 8:20 pm |
  20. Gin-Knee

    I see nothing wrong with this. Being a christian should mean excepting others.

    November 13, 2010 at 11:25 pm |
    • TX Guy

      I think you mean "accepting" others I hope...

      November 14, 2010 at 12:51 am |
    • lucky

      i think that was supposed to be wry

      November 14, 2010 at 1:41 am |
    • scott501

      It is interesting that many Christians rate being gay as worse as a worse sin than their sins. Many people lie, cheat on their spouse, taxes or do not show love to others (which is the most important according to the Scriptures)
      Judging makes then feel superior BUT it turns people away from church and THAT IS THE WORST SIN OFF ALL. Why not let God judge..does He need your help?

      November 14, 2010 at 8:28 am |
    • RealityBeliever

      Margaret:

      Please don't quote Leviticus for this. You are typical of lots o fellow Christians that will pick and choose verses to fit their political agenda. Leviticus is full of laws that we as Christians don't adhere to, including mandates to stone disobedient children, mandates to be stoned if you don't have the correct number of tassels on your cloak, etc. When's the last time you advocated that someone be stoned for these reasons? Why don't we follow these verses?

      November 14, 2010 at 8:30 am |
    • Michael Wm Miller

      Hold no thing before me.

      God

      November 14, 2010 at 8:47 am |
    • Brandon

      Christianity has a lot of excepting. Anyone can go to heaven except those that do not believe in god, are gay, or follow a different religion. Those people will go to hell, but remember, god still loves you 😉

      November 14, 2010 at 9:20 am |
    • michelle

      really??? our society has fallen so far. yuck

      November 14, 2010 at 9:24 am |
    • Drew

      Another Christian Fraud! I wonder how many more gays will be flying out of th closet??? Nothing wrong with being gay. I'm sure a book will follow. Money driven!!

      November 14, 2010 at 9:32 am |
    • Leo

      Brian Ellis, that is why people die in the name of Christianity. Get over yourself.

      No one knows what happens when you die. No one nice how the universe was initially created. No one knows WHAT created the universe, which would be the actual definition of god unless you label god any very powerful deity.

      And the fact that we are still pushing this story today has certainly done more harm than good. Great principles to be learned, absolutely terrible execution and administration of the Bible.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:38 am |
    • RS

      @Reality, your whole comment is ridiculous. If anyone cared about truth in religion, there would be no religion. All you others that hate on gay people, you are hypocrites, as any true believer in your silly fairy tales would be accepting and forgiving. But, just as this country is becoming more "conservative," so is the level of hate speech rising. Try not to hate so much, especially in the name of religion. It's really unbecoming, and if you really, really think about religion, how can you really believe it? It's amazing to me that this farce has lasted so many years. I mean, the Greeks and Romans believed that their gods were real, but we think they were stupid and naive, and call it mythology. Now we belive in something just as crazy, and call it theology. In a thousand years (if you religious crazies don't destroy the world first), there will be people that will read history books and laugh at our stupidity. Just as I am laughing (and crying a little too) at you.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:48 am |
    • Billy

      The Bible says that Man who lays with another Man as he would a women should be put to death. Jesus also said to Sin unto Death is to Perish with your Sin. There are many more such statements both about Women and Men in Bible. And now a Man who openly admits to Disobeying God Stands before the Pulpit. Sometimes Makes me wonder what Abomination Of Desolations could mean. Time to find another church.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:51 am |
    • dissident daughter

      I am curious to see how this may effect Bishop Eddie Long and his legal concerns.

      November 14, 2010 at 9:53 am |
    • Peace2All

      I believe it to be a good thing that this Pastor has c-ome out, and has declared his authenticity. Maybe, that will encourage more gay's to c-ome out and own who they really are without shame, guilt, or people of so-called 'faith' telling them they are horrible people who are going to burn in hell forever... or... that they are p-e-dophiles, just because they are gay. If this can also c-ontribute to less suicides, because of fundamentalist zealot Christian clergy, parents, teachers, etc.. that is fantastic. So, I don't see any down-side to this.

      Especially for the Christians, for your 'faith' to truly survive, you will need to change your att-itudes about gays.

      It is already happening with an ever-increasing number of Americans being more accepting, and you are also seeing a greater number of Christian denominations starting to be more accepting and tolerant–treating gays as equals, even having gay and lesbian clergy.

      This *is* absolutely a good-thing. I sincerely hope that this opens the door for a major change in our society.

      Peace...

      November 14, 2010 at 10:04 am |
    • septic

      He came out as gay because he was surrounded by hatred. Not because he was surrounded by Christians. Had the latter been the case, he`d probably have kept it to himself.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:10 am |
    • So gay

      To all those preachers out there of "the truth"..... You are exceptionally dangerous and arrogant people. It is one thing to believe something and have it's love and light in your life... But yet a completly other thing to use it as a sacred defenite!! It is when everyone thinks that they are right ... That war begins... In the name of what's right!!?? Please realize you religious fanatics... That u would prob be the terrorists today if u had been born in a Muslim country today. I try and not hate your arrogance... But it's really disgusting to tolerate. Use ur cross with love... And insight.... You haters are the perverted ones. It takes corouge to stand up against people
      like you.... Knowing you will cast the first stone. And yet ... People do , have and will!! To all those religious people out there who do not condemn ... I apologize if my statements have been hurtful. Please know they are not intended for you and what the world needs now is more of you and g-d!!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:11 am |
    • jkd2

      sammy

      Nothing wrong with this? Jesus WAS NOT gay.
      November 14, 2010 at 7:53 am
      ----------------------
      Jesus was ALSO not: a woman, old, rich, Chinese, a smoker, a truck driver ...
      Are all these groups ALSO going to Hell?

      November 14, 2010 at 10:20 am |
    • awaha

      to the person who said jesus WAS NOT gay...how do you know? the bible says he did roam around with 12 dudes, some of them former fishermen (i.e. ancient sailors). just throwing a claim as baseless as yours >:)

      November 14, 2010 at 10:21 am |
    • Winona Student

      He should quit his position. Christ was the true example of rightful living and this man betrayed Christ and the people around him. "Practice what you preach".

      November 14, 2010 at 10:23 am |
    • mk2

      What a brave decision. I commend him and I hope he finds peace with who he is and the good that he has done in this life.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:25 am |
    • David Johnson

      @J Beggs

      You said, " Why can't people make a committment and keep it. Yes it requires sacrifice, why can't we sacrifice to keep a promise."

      For the record, I have been married to the same woman for 30 years. Neither of us has ever cheated.

      My wife has often said: "Why go out for burgers, when you can have steak at home?" She is so truthful!

      And guess what, some of you may not have realized it, but I am a godless atheist!

      Yes, I have more morals than most of you who wear god like a hair shirt!

      I am living proof you don't need a god to be moral.

      Also: Vote for the Dems in 2012!

      November 14, 2010 at 10:40 am |
    • Witness

      You're correct that being a Christian means that you demonstrate God's love to everyone since He demonstrated his love for us by sending Jesus Christ to die for our sins. But there's a difference between "accepting" others and "approving" what others do. While we're all sinners, you don't just condone the sin just to be politically correct or because the world says it's right. We are to live "in the world", not be "of the world". Please read 1 John 2:15-17.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:45 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Billy
      You said, "Jesus also said to Sin unto Death is to Perish with your Sin. "

      Jesus also predicted he would return in the 1st century. He is 19 centuries late.

      If the Messiah can't get to work on time, perhaps its time to find a new Messiah.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:51 am |
    • Rico53

      Lets look at this from another perspective shall , Lets say you accept a job with a big company ,1000`s of employees , company policy states no fraternization among office employees, many companies have this policy, now you go on a business trip with coworkers , 2 of you wind up sharing a room and bed , you get caught ,what does the company do ,they either reprimand you or fire you .
      This pastor took a job working for GOD , now he admits to being gay, Lev 18 : 22 thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind this is an abomination , the congregation should either reprimand him or fire him , whats the difference between to 2 situations NONE ,it`s not a matter of hate or intolernce it is this pastors open disobedience to the very laws he was to teach others to live by.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:05 am |
    • Dan

      @ David Johnson:

      Jesus never said a single word about the date of his return. I don't know where you get that. In Revelation John tells us that in the last days people would mock the return of the Lord and ask why he tarries. John wrote Revelation at the age of 96 as teh first century was drawing to a close. Clearly the early Christians understood it would be a while.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:12 am |
    • photoman1

      Lets face it, religion is a way for people to act immorally and all is magically forgiven if they just ask.

      No consequences for our actions! Yay! Sign me up!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:23 am |
    • whatnext

      A pastor who calls himself a bishop. I wonder what's going to be the "tipping point" after which he'll start calling himself the Pope?

      November 14, 2010 at 11:25 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Dan

      Yes he did Dan. Fundies try to use fuzzy math to deny, what is a fatal error in their belief. But, Jesus said, what he said.

      Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” – Matthew 24:34
      This controversial verse is in all three of the Olivet Discourse accounts. (These accounts are to be found in Matthew 24:1-51, Mark 13:1-37, and Luke 21:5-33). For some time, critics of the Christian faith have argued that Jesus explicitly said here that all of the events prophesied in the Olivet Discourse, including His return, would happen before the last person living at that time died.
      Jesus promised, that He would return within that generation, but He did not. Since He was wrong, He could not have been God, so the Christian faith, is based on error. To bolster the argument, in all of the other places in the Gospels where Jesus used the term “this generation,” he was referring to people living at that time.

      These guys also feel Jesus was "mistaken" LOL!
      The respected Christian apologist and author, C.S. Lewis 1960 essay "The Worlds Last Night"
      “Say what you like,” we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.”
      Bertrand Russell, in his book, 'Why I Am Not A Christian',
      He discredits the inspiration of the New Testament: "I am concerned with Christ as He appears in the Gospel narrative…He certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at the time. There are a great many texts that prove…He believed that his coming would happen during the lifetime of many then living. That was the belief of his earlier followers, and it was the basis of a good deal of his moral teaching." Russell later reasons that it would be fallacious to follow a religious leader (such as Jesus) who was mistaken on so basic a prediction as his parousia.
      parousia = second coming
      eschatology = •the branch of theology that is concerned with such final things as death and Last Judgment; Heaven and Hell; the ultimate destiny of humankind
      Albert Schweitzer in his 19-century book, 'The Quest of the Historical Jesus', summarized the problem of "Parousia delay" as follows: "The whole history of Christianity down to the present day... is based on the delay of the Parousia, the nonoccurrence of the Parousia, the abandonment of eschatology, the process and completion of the 'de-eschatologizing' of religion which has been connected therewith."

      Cheers!

      November 14, 2010 at 11:30 am |
    • Cory

      Look we are all sinners but the only way that our sins our washed away is by the blood of Jesus. And for that to work is to truly confess, repent of our sins and to ask for forgivness. That's great that he is coming out but he does not believe he is sinning apparently. He needs to step down because this is contrary to what the bible teaches. It doesn't matter what the sin is, if they are not repenting of a sin/s then they should not be a leader of any sort in a church. Look we need to love these people like God loves them and that is what the bible teaches. How can we say that gays are going to hell people? When did you become judge of who goes to hell? I am glad that God is the judge and we are not because if we were none of us would make it to heaven.

      November 14, 2010 at 11:44 am |
    • GÜNTER

      Hello all, Do you ever consider what the founder of Christianity thinks about this? How did early Christians, walking in Jesus' footsteps, see the situation? Yes, it did exist then ('to corinthianise'), how did the God of Jesus see it in connection with priestly service? It's all there, in His word, but NOT taken note of, one wonders why??? Kind regrds, Günter

      November 14, 2010 at 12:04 pm |
    • ssdwcc

      Christianity and Jesus Christ are fairy tales / creation myths not unlike Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, etc, etc, etc. How can educated people buy into this ????

      November 14, 2010 at 12:26 pm |
    • scott501

      Why do so many Christians rate being gay as worse as a worse sin than their sins. Many people lie, cheat on their spouse, taxes or do not show love to others (which is the most important according to the Scriptures)
      Judging makes then feel superior BUT it turns people away from church and THAT IS THE WORST SIN OFF ALL. Why not let God judge..

      November 14, 2010 at 12:35 pm |
    • Reality

      The "destruction" of Sodom and Gomorrah, [Gen 19:24-25] was simply more tall tales generated by the Jewish scribes who wrote Genesis. The New Torah for Modern Minds continues the evolution of humans.

      To wit:

      "New Torah For Modern Minds

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

      Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:54 pm |
    • Badgerboy

      I could not agree more. I have ALL the respect for Pastor Jim Swilley. It took alot of faith and his belief in God to come out like he did.

      November 14, 2010 at 12:58 pm |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Reality,

      You are correct, from a Jewish perspective. However, chiristianity is not a form of Judaism, in fact it is Gentile super-cession of Judaism. Judaism is cultural/ethnic, not wrote. Judaism exists in the hearts, minds and spiritual metaphysics of the Jewish people, and they are not monolithic. They have anh exegesis known as PaRDeS, which incorporates their history, culture and spirituality into a system of interpreting their scriptures, and is ever evolving..though in some cases slowly...but evolution is not a quick process...just quicker than biological evolution. The heathen, Romani Gentile mind does not have the capability of Jewish PaRDeS, and are only left with Peshat, and no "extra-biblical" content. Christianity was invented by Emperor Constantine to promote a second phase of Roman hegemony, since the first attempt failed with the collapse of the Roman Empire. The christ is their abomination of the Jewish Prophet (and to some, Messiah) Yeshua ben Yosef. For those interested in the "real Jesus," he can still be found in the Gospels According to Thomas...but, that is not in the christian bible, is extra-biblical and not part of christianity. Yeshua was of a henotheist mindset, and would have gladly walked hand-in-hand with The Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Sai Babba, Geston Getorix, Kaj, Dama and any other prophet that promoted Agape within a fellowship of all men, following their own gods and their own paths to a common destination....heaven on earth...Agape in the here and now of our physical lives. Yeshua is anti-christ, and the christ is anti-Yeshua.

      November 14, 2010 at 1:17 pm |
    • Dave

      J Beggs, how long has it taken u to become so pious? Your quick to judge "our society" so you must be extremely well-versed in life as well as a two-thousand-year-old book (compiled by men) which neatly sums up the rules by which humans should forever live. Well maybe not so familiar with the "judge not" part. Didn't your god reserve that job for himself? Is it because he's been silent so long that you've taken on these duties. Or have I wrongly assumed you are a Christian? Forgive me if I have. It's just that 99% of the time I see a person summarily judging and condeming others, they turn out to be christians. I feel bad for the precious few Christians who actually seem to understand their religion. You know, the few who love, forgive and help others without judging.

      November 14, 2010 at 1:22 pm |
    • Bugmenot

      Christians are supposed to accept others yes,but not necessarily what they do or choose to be.

      November 14, 2010 at 2:04 pm |
    • Wilber

      He said come as you are; Did He also say come and "remain as you are"?!! He said I will off load you of you 'human' baggage. The bible is full of truth which our weaknesses or 'orientations' cannot change.

      November 14, 2010 at 2:11 pm |
    • Victor

      By the way on the Christian Jewish discussion: True Christians, are grafted in to the faith of Abraham Issac and Jocob by the Sacrificial and final Lamb of God...The Passover Lamb! Jesus Christ. We are in the faith of the Jew! Maybe religious traditions and rituals differ, but the relationship with the God of Abraham has been restored through Christ... The final Passover lamb of God Read the book of Romans, A Jew wrote. Paul. He says we are grafted in and have no room to boast, as if a Branch could boast of itself independent from a tree. A christian is a branch of the tree of Jewish Faith!

      November 14, 2010 at 8:49 pm |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Victor

      Grafted is a good word for the Jewish and christian relationship. It was put there by someone from the outside. Association is a bilateral understanding, not a unilateral one. There were no Rabbi's with Emperor Constantine and his group when they invented christianity, and the one and only christian "church" at the time, the RCC did a pretty good job of trying to exterminate them. You christians do not consider yourselves equal to the Jews, you consider yourselves better, because you have determined they have refused the christ their god sent them, and you are the "truer" followers of the God of Abraham. In effect, the Romani Gentiles have anointed themselves as the true inheritors of the Jewish faith. Quite arrogant, really, to steal someone elses scriptures and pretend that the Gentile mind, with simple Peshat can interpret the Hebrew God better than the Hebrews, themselves. The poor souls are in a forced marriage with a bunch of Gentile heathens over a child.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:32 pm |
    • Disturbing

      All religion as we know it is systematically, methodically being discredited in the minds of the people. This is psychological preparation for the religion of self-indulgence of the new age. The religion of the old age must be destroyed before the new age begins. People are frantically being forced to readjust their beliefs, morality and judgment. They are being indoctrinated by the media on a daily basis to accept that which was previously rejected as abnormomal behavior. And .. many religious leaders are being strategically exposed in the media.

      In some cases, you may see congregants in total denial (the Eddie Long effect). Many may choose to leave the church in total disillusionment. Still others may join non-religions based on humanism, which will in themselves become new religions. The world will keep on turning and the sun will keep on rising as it always has regardless what we believe or don't believe and call religion. Perhaps we should all reacquaint ourselves with the basis of our subsistence and existence as a species. Perhaps then we can under morality as a universal principle that sustains the species and not some abstract philosophical construct that can be melded and changed at will.

      November 14, 2010 at 10:37 pm |
    • Gwen

      I understand the concept of "accepting" others, what I dont understand is how you get around the fact that the Bible CLEARLY states this is wrong behavior and expresses that you cannot be doing this AND a chrisitan. The fact is if you say you follow the Bible and teach it, you have to follow every word, not just the parts you like or that you feel make your life better. That is being a half-hearted chrisitian. Its not about what you or I think, it should be about what the Bible says, if you are going to teach it!!! Thats being hypocritical

      November 15, 2010 at 10:28 am |
    • Kelly Garrett

      @Gwen,

      Depends on what you mean by "accepting." There is "accepting" the fact we are out there, and need to be "fixed." That is the "accepting" of hard fact, and merely a stoic response. Then there is a "Transcendent Acceptance," where on has a spiritual, or near spiritual "acceptance," in heart, mind and soul of the truth of the other, and the path they have. Christians can only have the stoic form of acceptance, because of what the bible says about us. So, you are right, but it is the stoic acceptance you must stay with, and drop any attempt at the transscendent form of it. With stoic acceptance, you only have a choice between "tolerating" us, or eliminating us. With transcendent acceptance "tolerance" is not required, because the transcendent nature of it means there is nothing to tolerate.

      Since transcendent acceptance is impossible with christians, we focus on the seculars...where there is hope of transcendent acceptance. With christianity that hope does not exist.

      That is the nature of the permanent "stand-off" between the christian god, and the gay community. We were born gay, made gay by the god that made us...it is just that we know that god was not yours.

      November 15, 2010 at 11:06 am |
    • Beth Berry

      People say that God is all love and this is true! As a born again Christian I want people to understand , God does not hate the person He hates the sin of that person or peorsons! If you think God has nothing to say about the life stlye of Sodominites, please go to Levitcus, and also Romans 1 the whole chapter. As I said God does not hate the person it is the sin, He says in |Romans 1:21-25 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an imagine made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who changed the truth of God into a lie,and worsipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever Amen> For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which isunseemly and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error whcih is meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not conventent. Now if you truly believe in God then please don't call Him a liar. One isin is no different then another in Gods eyes, so if you knew of someone that had committed a murder, would you then say it was alright for him or her to do so because God is a God of love .Think about what you are saying Please!

      November 15, 2010 at 11:50 am |
    • Vertebrate Catholic

      @David Johnson, regarding Jesus' prophecies about the things that would come to pass before the generation had passed away – the perennial teaching of the Church (she alone has the proper living context in which to interpret the Scriptures) holds that Jesus' prophecies have been fulfilled. Jesus has come in the Eucharist (the parousia, or presence), His kingdom has come (His Church), and there have always been persecutions, false prophets, wars, natural disasters, and such things. "do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end." (Luke 21:9)

      November 15, 2010 at 12:19 pm |
    • JordanGTM

      @Hogan Who are you to say what God hates? As far as I am aware the Bible does not say that God hates religion. That may be your opinion of the Biblical scriptures but I don't believe that you can use those opinions to speak on behalf of God.

      November 15, 2010 at 12:26 pm |
    • Manny

      If you've read your own bible you would realize that being gay goes against what the bible teaches. However the majority of so called "Christians" dont even read their own bible and just let some priest/bishop or who ever tell you what the bible says and many dont realize that half of what they teach you is a lie. Read your own bible... It clearly says that anyone man who lays with another man is not acceptable in gods eyes.

      November 15, 2010 at 1:01 pm |
    • StephanieInATX

      The beautiful part about my Christianity and my relationship with God is that I understand it is not my RIGHT nor my PLACE to judge ANYONE – whether he's (or she's) a person of "the cloth" or not. I do not want to be judged. I want to love, accept, comfort and pray for, as true Christians do, for all of God's children – even His GAY children.

      November 15, 2010 at 1:09 pm |
    • RH of WI

      God didn't write the bible, man did. Than, like now, opinions and fears, taint the message. The bible also says that little children should be sheltered. Might want to point that out to the Catholic church.

      November 15, 2010 at 1:24 pm |
    • FredfromSJ

      Though I applaud Pastor to come out, being Christian is not the criteria to be tolerant. However, being part of the human race does require one to accept others. Too often we use religion to promote social awareness. We should go back to the basics: of what separate us humans from animals? Intelligence and tolerance.

      November 15, 2010 at 2:26 pm |
    • ScottK

      @ all religious people – I really hope humans are still alive 2000 years from now, but I have the feeling that if we are there will be those who are debating the divinity of Edward or Jacob or whether magic left the world after Voldemort was defeated which is why their magic wands dont work. And they will still be debating se xual orientation. Grow up people, fairy tales and magic were great to explain the unexplained when we were kids, but sticking to them as informed adults is just silly and harmful to humanity.

      November 15, 2010 at 2:32 pm |
    • Cindy

      Seems like a nice man, wants to enjoy the rest of his life, good for him.
      So many things to annoy me, like Nancy Pelosi, the ACLU, Barney Frank but this lovely man doesn't trouble me in the least.

      November 15, 2010 at 11:05 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Vertebrate Catholic

      Yes, the Preterists also take Jesus at his word and maintain everthing was concluded by 70 CE, when the temple was destroyed.

      This Catholicism is not without its fascinations. If I ever feel the need, I would probably embrace it.

      Cheers!

      November 16, 2010 at 9:54 am |
    • Gman

      People don,t follow men ,follow and READ THE WORD!!!

      November 16, 2010 at 9:59 am |
    • Kevin Riley O'Keeffe

      Its great that he "came out," I guess. Now its time for him to resign his ministry.

      November 17, 2010 at 12:41 am |
    • Frogist

      @ScottK: You did NOT just menion Twilight as a source of future divinity?! While I totally see your comparison, should that day ever come, I will force my will to reincarnate myself as the second coming of Stephanie Meyers, just so I can tell the world how horrible those books are.

      November 17, 2010 at 12:05 pm |
    • Jim

      “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matt 24:36
      “But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matt 24:37

      “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.” Matt 24:42
      “But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.” Matt 24:43

      “But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;” Matt 24:48
      “The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matt 24:50-51

      “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.” Matt 25:6
      “Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” Matt 25:13

      What happens if we don't watch?

      “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. “ Rev 3:3

      What happens if we do watch?

      “Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. “ Luke 12:37

      The magnitude of people who cannot see this is startling!

      Judgment begins May 21, 2011. "Go ye out to meet him". Get out of the church...any church...and go to the bible.

      November 20, 2010 at 2:28 pm |
    • James Dean

      It is so sad that so many think they know what being a Christian is about. So sad. It is not about being yourself, being true to your nature, honoring your orientation, or doing your own thing. It is about being what God wants you to be. The road to Hell is paved with people doing what THEY think they can do. Doing one's OWN thing is the road to damnation. Stop listening to men. Listen to God. Read his book. It's called the Bible and not subject to change.

      November 22, 2010 at 8:17 pm |
    • Andrew

      @James Dean

      I do love the logic of the incredibly pious like you. Somehow you manage to paint your god as a tyrant and then sum it up by saying we should actually obey the ent-ty you've set up like the villain a very bad story.

      Life isn't about being true to yourself, instead you have to abide by the rules set up by this guy who will punish you eternally if you disobey him. How can you disobey him? Well, apparently "doing your own thing" deserves eternal torture, being gay deserves eternal torture, being an atheist deserves eternal torture, eating shrimp, believing another religion, or even using the word "god" in vain. Which is really absurd, "you are not allowed to ever take my name in vain", this character is malevolent, casting anyone who doesn't offer sycophantic praise into hell....

      And this is the guy you tell us to listen to. I'm sure you're very devout and all, but can you step out of your little bubble for a second and read what you wrote as an atheist would see it? As someone who remains unconvinced of any evidence in favor of that statement, can you see just how twisted your world would appear from the outside?

      The types of logical dances you must be capable of to come to some truly strange conclusions is I'm sure utterly remarkable, though personally, I'm willing to risk "everlasting torture" in hell for intellectual honesty and I sure as hell would never believe in a deity so incredibly petty, arrogant, and just plain evil.

      November 25, 2010 at 6:39 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.