CNN iReporter Lulis Leal sent photos of this New Jersey billboard that she spotted while driving into New York City this week. “It actually upset the group of people in my car," she said.
Check out the full iReport.
Ha ha hah ah ha, really MJW, REALLY ? ? ? You said god answers your prayers by saying "no". If you are hearing a voice in your head that is speaking an answer to your prayers then you need to seek professional help. What you meant to say was that when you pray and it does not come true (shocker) than that was gods divine plan. How convienient. When you pray for somethings that do happen to come true then that was Gods will. Wow. Well you want to know what ??? Your God came to me the other day. We talked about all sorts of stuff. He is actually a pretty cool dude. We had some beers and shot some pool (all in my head of course). He told me that he created all of universe by accident. The end result of a keg party and too many deviled eggs. HE told me that people should not worry about praying or church or touchy feely preists and they should just live their lives. He told me that after all when he created this earth he accidently did not make a back up file so no matter what we do we can not change our destiny. So we should just be good humans and forget abouit religion. It is true and since I was the only one that could see him or hear him you just have to take my word for it. If you try to tell me that I did not have this experience than I will just put my hands over my ears and start humming. It happened and it is TRUE so nothing you say will sway me. I saw him and heard him and he told me these things.
@ Captain Sanity
These things happen when they adjust your meds. It'll be all ok in a week or two. Love the name, btw. It's good to be optimistic.
Captain Sanity, you prove my point – you are the type that demand to have your rights and demand respect for your disbelieft or differing belief yet you are either unable, unwilling to allow others their own as well. You are just another mouth holding the world to a higher standard than you are willing to hold yourself too.
I guess none believers get upset with believers because if the non-believer is wrong he will have and eternity of regret. A believer being wrong won't have any regret after life. A believer can still life a fun prosperous life without the ills of a wisdom less life either way? I'm a believer and I'm one of those rich people the far left hates. And I'm enjoying life every day!
How many times will Pascal's Utterly Refuted To Death Wager be used?
Why do you care? Mfft. It's a non-sequitur to the issue of belief; anybody with faith couldn't care less about Pascal.. It's simply a vogue that's stuck in the craw of the atheist movement. But you keep trying to hit folks over the head with the wiffle-ball bat of Pascal none the less.
@Let Us Prey
Atheists, me anyway, do not for a second believe they can change a true brain washed believer. I point out the silliness to the believer, with any onlookers in mind. I want people who aren't yet lost in stupidity, to realize that arguments such as Pascal's Wager are not a good reason to hook up with a god.
Every person is born with a plan from god. His plan for me is to point out He does not exist.
This plan for everyone is also why free will does not exist.
Each may believe as they wish. It won't change what I believe. Just don't ask me to respect your right to to call my celebration false, if you are unable to respect my right to celebrate. For David Johnson – God answers prayers – sometimes he says no but no is an answer all the same. For Reality – tsk, tsk – think for yourself. Should your wish be to study up and educate yourself in an effort to think for yourself, then be sure you read equally from scholars on both sides – otherwise, you are simply following along without any real thought process of your own.
MJW.....you are soooo correct...praise Alla!!!!
A fundie once told me, that god always answers prayers in one of three ways:
1) God says, "yes". You get what you asked for immediately.
2) God says, "to wait". You will get what you asked for at some future date.
3) God says, "no". You will not get what you asked for.
Hmmm.... But I can get the same success from the milk carton I see sitting on the table.
1) If I pray to my magic carton, some things will come true immediately, just by chance and coincidence.
2) Some things will come true at some future date, for the same reasons.
3) If I don't get what I want, then my magic carton said, "no".
I think there is a problem, when there is no difference between praying to a god and praying to a milk carton.
I'm sorry, MJW. Prayer does not work.
I am an atheist. My family still celebrates Christmas because my wife believes. I find the holiday season to be full of secular values such as spending time with family and friends, helping those less fortunate, etc. Besides, in addition to being an atheist, I am also a capitalist. Christmas is good for the economy. All I ask durring the holiday season is that anyone who wants to lay claim to the holiday season in the name of their religion had better be able to defend their position in debate using demonstrative evidence, facts and reason. Or, if you are not prepared to do so, just say "happy holidays" and smile.
You had me right up to: "had better be able to defend their position in debate using demonstrative evidence, facts and reason." Really? Why? To satisfy your demand? Who – in – the – hell are you to demand this? Why can't you respect the beliefs of others as you would expect them to respect yours?
Pretty audacious, bucky. I don't think anyone is required to explain ANYthing to the likes of you.
Oh, and if your wife believes, do you interrogate her every year? Or has she already given you 'satisfactory' answers? I wonder what your marriage is built on – mutual respect, or the "Yu Vill Answar Mein Questions !" philosophy.
@Let Us Prey: No explaination necessary. I am assuming that you are not one of the believers that needs to tell atheists that they cannot celebrate the holidays because they don't believe in your god. As for the rest of your comment. Yes, you do owe an explaination to your beliefs. Your attempt at the "higher ground" position to avoid having to defend your beliefs is childlike. If you have no evidence to support your claims, I suggest you be quiet while the adults are talking. I have tried to be as condecending as you were in your post, but it is not my strong suit. I would rather have open, respectuful discussion with someone willing to defend their position. You have shown that your are not such a person. Happy Holidays!
I think we could all tell where Let Us Prey is concerned. It is in his moniker, after all. The use of the verb Prey versus Pray is a tell. In his strange way, he has summed up the christian psyche...the dictionary definition of that verb is:
Prey: [from Old French preie, from Latin praeda booty; see predatory]
vb (intr; often foll by on or upon)
1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Zoology) to hunt or seize food by killing other animals
2. to make a victim (of others), as by profiting at their expense
3. to exert a depressing or obsessive effect (on the mind, spirits, etc.); weigh heavily (upon)
Your poor wife.
What's juvenile is thinking that anyone owes you an explanation for their belief. And I was condescending because I find your demand for such explanations offensive. Personally I don't care if you howl at the moon on Christmas... just hold off after 10:00 PM. We all go to bed early.
Don't over-think it to self-serve your agenda. It's really much simpler than all that insidiousness.
Here's an interesting observation about the "American Atheists" logo on the sign...
Protons and Neutrons surrounded by orbits of electrons... Let's see. Positive and neutral charges, together, surrounded by negatively-charged electrons that just can't seem to connect with the 'nucleus', while they are whipping around in a frenzied, disconnected spin.
What a hoot ! Good job on selecting this for your logo.
Hey Lulis Leal... now you know how non-Christians feel when we have to tolerate YOUR offensive billboards everywhere. Sucks, doesn't it?
Not only that, Christians co-opted (AKA stole) the existing and genuine winter solstice holiday!
My family has been eating turkey and opening presents on the 21st for over a decade now. We realised one year that it made sense to move our celebration to the actual solstice. At least one household of family friends has followed suit. On the 25th we usually go for a long walk someplace really beautiful that is usually very crowded – such as a beach park.
Why is one holiday more "genuine" than the other? Because of the age of that tradition?
I like most everything from Dar Williams.
**AWARE post above correction.
Darlene as a loving agnostic I think you should seek good psyciatric care. I wish well and hope you heal.
I think if anyone takes time to read this, you will have alot of your questions answered about who it really is thats causing horror in the world!
I hope all of you will read this, it may have some answers to things I see questioned here and on other threads, Please read it all.
Understand everything and then combine all the facts. I am sure no one would do a term paper based on facts, without having all of them considered. Peace!
I do not understand why David Johnson keeps saying Jesus did not and is not coming back?
Jesus said, "No man knoweth the hour or the Day, except for the Father". He will be back. He also said it would come upon some as a thief in the night. An expression to show that some will not be prepared, and surprised.I think that means people who did not believe he would be back.
Just thought I would let you know, in case you were not awrae of this.
This world is under Satans dominion, that is true. He is the one that causes all the strife and bad things to happen, but it seems people find it easier to blame Jesus? It was foretold it would be that way, before Jesus left. He sent the Holy Spirit as a comforter to us. I would hate to see what the world would be like, when the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the world. A frightening concept.
Actually, Jesus predicted He would return in the 1st century.
Fundies will use theological gymnastics to try and show Jesus did not mean what He said. But it is what it is. Jesus said, what he said.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” – Matthew 24:34
This controversial verse is in all three of the Olivet Discourse accounts. (These accounts are to be found in Matthew 24:1-51, Mark 13:1-37, and Luke 21:5-33). For some time, critics of the Christian faith have argued that Jesus explicitly said here that all of the events prophesied in the Olivet Discourse, including His return, would happen before the last person living at that time died.
Jesus promised, that He would return within that generation, but He did not. Since He was wrong, He could not have been God, so the Christian faith, is based on error. To bolster the argument, in all of the other places in the Gospels where Jesus used the term “this generation,” he was referring to people living at that time.
These guys also feel Jesus was "mistaken" LOL!
The respected Christian apologist and author, C.S. Lewis 1960 essay "The Worlds Last Night"
“Say what you like,” we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.”
Bertrand Russell, in his book, 'Why I Am Not A Christian',
He discredits the inspiration of the New Testament: "I am concerned with Christ as He appears in the Gospel narrative…He certainly thought that his second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at the time. There are a great many texts that prove…He believed that his coming would happen during the lifetime of many then living. That was the belief of his earlier followers, and it was the basis of a good deal of his moral teaching." Russell later reasons that it would be fallacious to follow a religious leader (such as Jesus) who was mistaken on so basic a prediction as his parousia.
parousia = second coming
eschatology = •the branch of theology that is concerned with such final things as death and Last Judgment; Heaven and Hell; the ultimate destiny of humankind
Albert Schweitzer in his 19-century book, 'The Quest of the Historical Jesus', summarized the problem of "Parousia delay" as follows: "The whole history of Christianity down to the present day... is based on the delay of the Parousia, the nonoccurrence of the Parousia, the abandonment of eschatology, the process and completion of the 'de-eschatologizing' of religion which has been connected therewith."
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” – Matthew 24:34
There would be those still alive that would see His Kingdom come….and it happened just that way….Jesus Christ established His Church which is His Kingdom on earth...before He ascended into Heaven. But He did promise the Paraclete to be with them always, guarding and guiding...and that promise has been good for 2000 years.
Yes, I know of the Catholic position on this. I exchanged several comments with another Catholic, who I think may have been a priest. Thanks!
I asked you, in another blog if you had ever read "Journal of a Soul" by Pope John XXIII? I read it many years ago. I thought it was fantastic.
No, but I will check the Church library soon. Thanks for the suggestion….!
I did just see your other post [and had already posted an answer] when I saw this…. but I was too busy making pies [again]…we are going to have Thanksgiving again tomorrow for those who couldn’t make it on the actual day. We do the same for Christ Mass Day or birthdays or any special day where we all can’t make it on the very day. It doesn’t make the day any less holy…in fact, all feel very loved by the efforts put forth by all to come together.
You said: "I would hate to see what the world would be like, when the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the world. A frightening concept."
Hmm... Really? If there was no Holy Spirit, would there be disease? Would children die in their mother's arms from starvation? Would hurricanes and earthquakes and floods kill thousands of people? Would there be wars and hate? Would there be tons of suffering? – WAIT! – We have these things now, and the Holy Spirit is with us.
So tell me Darlene:
• – if God can prevent evil, but doesn't, then He isn't all-loving.
• – if God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He isn't omnipotent.
• – if God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?
Here is a funny, to go along with my comment to you:
My fundies are not silly!
Frightening....absolutely frightening. There is nothing more dangerous than a religious fanatic "defending the faith." How many people have been slaughtered in the most horrible ways imaginable by those that declare they are "defending the faith"? Not all "wars" are the same. There are "wars" that are fought over human ideals, such as power, property and wealth. They can be dealt with, and those "ideals" can be abandoned by humans when they become too costly for themselves. Deals can be made in those situations...trade, diplomacy, etc. For those fighting for a "god" there is no deal that can be made, without abandoning their god, if that god is absolute, intolerant, petty, jealous and vengeful.
"When nature, herself, decides there should be only one kind of flower, only one kind of bird and only one kind of human being will I believe there is only one true god above all others, and only one true way to worship."
That was very sad. Where was the love and the gentle way of Jesus in that?
There are other videos of the fundamentalists. Just click on them. This particular Jesus Camp no longer exists. Even some Evangelicals thought it a bit much. But the sentiment is still with us.
I am afraid. I am very afraid.
@CatholicMom, and other christians, regardless of their sub-cult
There is nothing in that video that is not along the lines of the ENTIRE context of christianity. Christianity is a religion of war. The catholics, especially, should understand that...they have slaughtered tens of millions of pagans in the most horrible ways because of their bible. They have even slaughtered millions of other "christians" because of it. Christians cannot even extend their "christian love" to each other because of minor little differences. Until they can get their houses in order, they really should not be out telling others how they should behave.
The video is full of the christ, and the nature of christianity. What it is NOT, is the ways of the Prophet Yeshua ben Yosef....but, he has nothing to do with christianity. He can be found in the Gospels According to Thomas...the parable of the 5 Trees (the truth in henotheism) should be of particular interest to non-christians. The Prophet is no christ.
That sent utter chills down my spine. A generation of terrorists in training.....
Kelly once that argument of Love,forgiveness is exposed as judegement and being cast into the lake of fire for not adhering to their religon is exposed they are exposed!
Kelly ,exactly you nailed it. Once they lose their arguments. Once they are exposed as being tortuous evil satanic lovers ...they try to scare you with hell. .......Sharon and Laurie created Satan worship him and use his vengence as a tool for control and fear.....
When you die and find out there is a God, what will you actually say then???? OOPS!!! I should have listened to those crazy Jesus Freaks!!!!! It will be a little to late, don't ya think! I feel so very sorry for you people. God will show you as you are standing in front of Him one day, all the opportunities you had to believe and give your life to Him and you didn't. And then, well, I don't even have to say it, because you know where you are going!
It appears that the same ol' line keeps coming up with you christians...fear. When all the arguments over the christian definition of "love" have no appeal, there is always the fear of hell. In actuality, even according to your own bible, "hell" is a place where you god is absent. For a backsliding christian that would be "as if" burning in a lake of fire for all of eternity. Your bible is quite clear that hell is a metaphor for the backsliding "faithful."
What you christians do not realize is that "hell" is relative. My idea of "hell" would be having to be neighbors with Jerry Falwell for all of eternity...LOL. Or, any or you , for that matter. My idea of "heaven" would be an eternity without the petty, jealous and vengeful god that made "hell" on earth for the rest of us by having to put up with you. I look forward to the christian version of "hell."
Sharon and Laurie ...what opportunity? because of religious texts written thousands of years ago ? Listening to Benny Hinn? David Koresh? Jimmy bakker ? Jimmy Swaggert? what opportunity.? idiots denying science evolution old earth...what about Islam hinduism or buddism what about other religions???
Grow up, Sharon. Just because you're terrified of some Bad Place doesn't mean the rest of us are so childish as to also be terrified of it–especially since it doesn't exist. Be an adult, Sharon, and put away your childish things.
On Christmas Eve, when Santa comes down your chimney, what are you going to say? Were a good little boy or girl? Do you deserve "presents" this year?
If you are right, and there is no God, no Jesus, then I have lost nothing for being a Christian.....But if I am right, and there is a God and there is a Jesus, then you have lost everything and you will spend eternity in hell. So why would you take that chance?
I dont doubt Jesus...but I am not going to act Like a religious person just out of the fear of hell.
Your "bet" is OK for you, because you are driven by fear, not the Agape of the human fellowship. However, your choice does have an effect on others. It determines how you can deal with others, first of all. You have accepted a paradigm that says all others are false, and you have selected to join a elite fellowship that separates you from the rest of "godless" humanity. You contribute to the voices that are against all others when you join it. You contribute to the civil, secular "marriage equality" debate that is happening over here...you are against it, because your god is. If you are for marriage equality then you backslide in the covenant you accepted...you are bound for hell, and your fear will not let you do otherwise. Christianity is a religion of war...war against Satan and the "godless" ways of those that either follow him, or have been tricked by him to work against your "one and only true god."
You also accepted the slaughter of tens of millions of "godless" pagans all over the planet when you accepted that covenant. If not, you should not have accepted it.
You focus not on the Agape of the Gospels, you focus on the judgment of the god in the bible. Some new "christians" focus on the Gospels and ignore the genocide he brings to all that do not follow him on his return. They do not focus on the intolerant, prejudiced god. They focus on the universal Agape that the Jewish prophet Yeshua ben Yosef brought. But, the christ does not come without the petty, jealous and vengeful god. Nor does the christ in the christian bible come without the intolerant genocide of the "godless" in the end.
For those that want a henotheist Yeshua that would walk hand-in-hand as an equal to the likes of The Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Geston Getorix, Kaj and others, he can be found in the "Gospels of Yeshua as Told by Thomas," also known as the Gospels according to Thomas, The Book of Thomas and the GTh. That Yeshua is henotheist, accepts all paths to Agape in the fellowship of man, and is not coming back to kill anyone. But, that is not christianity...that was invented by a Roman Emperor named Constantine.
I would rather have Agape on earth during this lifetime, than contention during this lifetime while waiting for some reward that is supposed to come after I die. But, that is us, and we are not christians. It is sublime arrogance to believe any human being can know the mind of god.
Oh come on–not Pascal's Utterly Refuted To Death Wager again?! Really Laurie? Are you catholic? If not, you can't use the wager in the first place, as the choices were solely between catholicism and atheism, according to Pascal. So if you're protestant: you don't get to use the wager.
Amen, Laurie. There is nothing to celebrate if you are an athiest because nothing has any meaning. Anything an athiest celebrates is meaningless. As a Christian, my life has meaning and I celebrate that meaning at Christmas and Easter etc. If I am wrong about my faith, then at least I lived an enjoyable life filled with meaning and purpose. Then I will die and there will be nothingness. If I'm right, then I have everything to look forward to and an eternity of meaning and purpose. Either way, I win. :)
What you are expressing is called Pascal's Wager. I am bored and want to do other things so I will give you the short version:
You can't be sure you are worshiping the one true, keep you out of hell, god. The Muslims and other denominations of Christianity believe their god is the one true god and would send you to hell.
You can't avoid risk.
If you are just "faking" a belief in god, He being all knowing would see through the ruse.
If there is no god then you wasted a portion of your life, worshiping a god that doesn't exist. And if there is no afterlife, that time is all the more precious.
There is always risk. You just can't avoid it.
Mark, my life has meaning–and I'm an atheist. That you have to fake meaning for your life, rather than making meaning for yourself, is your problem.
As an agnostic I love Christmas and the holidays. Christmas decorations,decorating the tree,watching my kids smile and play with their gifts. I love the cooler weather,great foods and deserts. The great parties in our neiborhood and visiting with relatives. Christmas is no myth. Religion is the myth! Being judgemental towards others and their religious and non religious beliefs is what ruins Christmas
I so agree with you! Once we get the Christ out of Christmas, everyone will be better off!
And remember! Jesus is watching! He is making a list and checking it twice. Gonna find out who is naughty and nice. He knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows when you are on the pot, so be good for Heaven's sake!
Christmas is a time for enjoying all the myths. Once when I spent too much time "sampling" Jack Daniels, I thought I saw Jesus leaving presents by the tree!
Damn! I do love the Holiday Season!
You can be an agnostic atheist, an agnostic Christian, or even an agnostic 'undecided,' but "agnostic" doesn't refer to a belief about the existence of anything. It refers to the belief that the existence of a something can't be proven or disproven, so it's not an alternative view to atheism or religion. And I don't think the purpose of the billboard is to propose that the existence of the Christmas holiday is a myth, but rather that the story that is generally associated with it, the birth of Jesus, is a myth.
Look at the ad! It shows the three magis or Kings who had discovered the time and place of where the saviour has been born. No more questions here. Those atheists will become true believers sooner or later. Reason and faith togather do not exclude themselves, on the contrary they compliment each other.
I hope all of you will read this, it may have some answers to things I see questioned here and on other threads, Please read it all.
Yeah... except, its not. So much for reason. Go back to school. Lean something this time. I honestly don't understand how people who say that Jesus was a mythological person who never existed can claim to be "educated". Do me a favor. Look at your newspaper, whats the year on it? 2010? 2010 since what?... case closed.
Yes, since what? The jewish calendar has the year at over 5,000, and the chinese at over 3,000. So what's your point again?
Not so fast,
Of the two Gospel authors who wrote of the birth of Jesus, Matthew ties it to the reign of Herod the Great (Matthew 2:1) shortly before Herod's death. That puts Jesus birth date at about 4 BC. But Luke wrote that Jesus birth happened after the Romans took over rule of Judea from Herod's successor son Archelaus in 6 AD. (Luke 2:1-2). So we have a discrepancy of at least 10years between the two gospel authors. This in a supposedly holy and inerrant book.
Las Vegas, NV christmas holiday travel deals, the most entertaining web site for Las Vegas travel, hotel, and entertainment information, has been updated with new partnerships and tools to help its
For the journey travel is a good service for people.So after month we will attend thechristmas holiday travel dealsin New York.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.