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January 13th, 2011
11:00 PM ET

Wisconsin school finds 340 year old bible

[cnn-video url= http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/living/2011/01/13/nr.old.bible.cnn%5D

A 340-year-old discovery has put a small Lutheran school and church in Bonduel, Wisconsin, on the world map.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • United States

soundoff (64 Responses)
  1. Muneef

    A man of a live conscience is in the straight path of righteous and the straight path of righteous is the path of men of God who love and fear their God most in every decision or action or words been said and committed ....!!
    Man of God and God fearing is what is counted for a man to represent a mixed culture and beliefs nation for which he has to be aware of those cultures and beliefs of those other nations in order to be able to plant respects to become between those mixed cultures and beliefs as such gives the assurance of mutual understanding between the nation with other overseas nations or even with those within the country of mixed cultures and beliefs...!
    Some how it's felt that values,morals,virtues are not there in a secular world only faceless solid lifeless laws of men rather than what has been relayed by Holy books that calls for good deeds and reject bad deeds and to build a faithful societies,communities,nations since communications among nations or even among the nations of mixed cultures and beliefs... Laws or God and universe are to be prepared by some thing that is equivalent to UN but built on nations beliefs to achieve the code of understanding among nations but as can see now it is build on groundless bases if not of words of God to faiths...in addition to those non spiritual secular beliefs to make decisions of faith but at the moment the secular world make and take the decisions while the beliefs and faiths has to pay for it when it becomes a war between all faiths or religions outside your world ,it would become back into your inside among the mixed culture and beliefs of the nation or nations under one country flag...!
    Today's world man has become with no value other than his organs if sold or stolen....so what is happening only proves that we are imposing marketing the wrongs against the rights....cultures and beliefs are going down the drain with all those values, morals,virtues some how turning into commotion among cultures and beliefs turning against each other misunderstanding each other or unaware of cultures way of living and beliefs to ease communication mutual understanding as a nation of mankind and a nation of faiths. As i believe we should not bleach wash cultures and faiths in to one but am with keeping all cultures and faiths which make a colorful painting rather than one blank single colored...!?
    Wa Salam,Peace,Shalom...  

    January 17, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
  2. Muneef

    Birds : A Lesson For You And Me
    by Asma bint Shameem
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LoveIslam_LiveIslam/message/1101

    January 17, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
  3. Muneef

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12180193#story_continues_2

    January 17, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
  4. Apostle Eric vonAnderseck

    I would love to have a copy of that bible! http://apostlestoday.net/

    January 17, 2011 at 11:38 am |
  5. jeffery

    I think it would be very interesting to read this bible to see if there are any differences from that time to now.

    January 16, 2011 at 8:52 pm |
  6. NL

    "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
    — Marcus Aurelius

    January 16, 2011 at 12:31 am |
    • Peace2All

      @NL

      Hey buddy... Hope that you are well...?

      And, by the way, excellent quotation !

      Peace...

      January 16, 2011 at 12:45 am |
    • Gary

      NL, nice Post! I am agnostic been watching "beyond and back" I survived series. Supposed to be based on true stories of folks who passed on for short period. All of their testimonies are similar. Most all see the light a nice spiritual place. Proof to me no one religion is correct. If God exists he is universal.

      January 16, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • NL

      Gary-
      More than likely we all share the same biological response to our brains dying, or being deprived of oxygen at least.

      January 16, 2011 at 11:29 pm |
    • NL

      Peace2All-
      Hey, bud.!
      Everything is fine except that weekends are too short.
      I like quotes, especially ancient ones. Put's the Bible into proper perspective when you can compare it to the contemporary wisdom of other cultures. I sometimes wonder if people are aware that the ancients wrote anything but scripture?

      January 17, 2011 at 12:14 am |
  7. Muneef

    So good night for the whole lot of you devils and angels and God bless...peace.

    January 14, 2011 at 8:53 pm |
  8. Muneef

    Reality
    You will ask me why I will say it is true Religions can not be taken or depended on as rulers! Again you will ask why that is?
    I will say seeing who Religions became very very Rich from it's followers but will not support the living of other poor branches of their faith! We see here that the rich Christian branches are not supporting for example this Coptic branch in Egypt working as Rubbish collectors and junk yards? Say have Christians helped it to have a decent life or at least develop what they know best with equipment's at least towards recycling as green move this way they would have helped them needy for decent living and conserved environment and nature? But instead of that they would ignore of compel them to become into their path before they give a lending hand or assistance....?!? Well am not saying Christians among them selves only but even for Islam and Judos are no different from that and that's why you have uneven wealth and growth distribution !?
    We have a saying that says "To cut mans living is like cutting his head and those who depend on him for support"!? This is called Poverty and Hunger which makes Man Angry and who becomes Angry Rebels against all if no justice or mercy found in to undertaking terrorist acts against the di-scrim-inating systems on basis of Faith or Path or Race !? Any statistics how many poor and rich from the branches of each faith of at least the three Abrahamic faiths or Religions ?!? Only then we will know how cruel they are to each other when God says in his scriptures that we are all descended from one nation..the nation that were saved by Noah's Ark PBUH...! We are one nation being on the Faith of Abraham and derived from him and his followers!? But still Brother to Brother or Faith to Faith or Path to Path or Branch to branch are being stingy to each other and Greed drive them against each other, the living being means nothing to them as being just a Mankind a Human Being a creation among creations...!? So it is either with us or against us thing...!?
    We have to drive those branches to share love,charity and respect of belief among them selves and then driving those three Religions to have the same among them selves only then we will see peace and prosperity on people of earth and only then you will find disbelievers believe that there is God because there is love of sharing and caring among all otherwise sorry to say Religions are no different than Gangsters who have no love for God Creations believers or not...!?
    Peace to you Reality and Guys for helping me to realize why you dispute religions and not for disbelieving but for knowing that this is not what is reflected on earth towards each other as you saw more hate among them than it is love and more wars among them than it is peace...?!?
    But surely what we are doing is not the right solution to correct this and to make them do what they should for good deeds causes and not co-nspir-acy causes..nor for ra-ci-al causes....!? The Charity is to help them to make a decent living and not to feed them only doing nothing,but are to get them to help and support them selves making a living...!? And such as those could be become the driving force for nature conservation and green recycling projects and so on....?!                           

    January 14, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • Reality

      Muneef,

      Your yammering is taken a turn for the worse.

      January 15, 2011 at 12:04 am |
    • Muneef

      Thanks to you reality you have brainwashed me.

      January 15, 2011 at 5:05 am |
    • Muneef

      Reality.

      That is the truth about things , money gathered at certain faiths that they do not share with their branches. You have stated that Islamic branches are 77 then can you name the rich branches and the poor branches since you have your so-urc-es of stat-is-tics..?

      January 15, 2011 at 7:22 am |
    • Reality

      Saving Muslims is quite easy!!!

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      January 15, 2011 at 10:55 am |
    • Muneef

      Reality.
      So that is all you are capable of ? Well seems you are good for nothing and the only zombies I can think of at the moment are the ones who are in your faith of Apeman and not Humans...

      January 15, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • Reality

      Muneef, Muneef, Muneef,

      Obviously, you are lost in your Breeding, Birth and Brainwashing in Islam. We have presented you with an easy and free way of deprogramming your situation. It is now up to you.

      January 16, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • Muneef

      Reality.Reality.Reality.
      Good night no use talking to you..

      January 16, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
  9. peter

    i would say its outdated but that would just be ironic.

    January 14, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
  10. KDH

    "Put to rest?" No, I don't think so.

    That loop - then who caused God? - is of course the next logical question. How could something exist out of nothing? But then, how could anything exist, had it not come out of something? That first cause, that existed because it existed, is nothing that you can put in a test tube. It would have to be something almost beyond our comprehension. What God is, is that first cause. He is the cause of "first." The question itself answers what His nature would have to be: more powerful than anything else in all existence, the cause of all things known ever to be, and itself the cause of its own existence. Consider when Moses asks the burning bush, "Who are you?' The answer is "Yahweh" - simply, "I AM." This is written well before the development of existential philosophy, but could be stated no more clearly.

    The first western scientists saw no schism between faith and science, but wanted to explore the world God created in order to know Him better. Look at Einstein's theory of relativity: that gravity and matter alter the "speed" of time - in other words, without matter, there is no time. God exists in a space that is bigger than time, or "firsts." He actually CREATED time and the link of cause-and-effect and the need for the word "first."

    God GIVES us emotional & physiological stresses to communicate physically those morals that we "instinctively" have - after all, why "should" society be harmonious? RIght & wrong are not just so "because God says so" - he said so to give us a clue as to how he designed the world and people and everything else. But since He also gave us free will, we are conflicted from an early age, knowing in our hearts what "feels" right & wrong, but sometimes seeing people act differently and reaping the benefits from doing so.

    Honestly, on a more spiritual level, I would say that if you desire a proof of God, you should earnestly ask Him to show Himself to you, and He will. It may not be what you expect - after all, Jesus was in many ways not what the Old Testament prophets had expected! - but what would be the thrill in getting what you expect?

    NL – What is skepticism but the opposite of faith - in other words, the hatred or fear of any idea being true, not proof that it is actually false?

    January 14, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • NL

      KDH-
      Pretty words, but what you are basically saying is that you believe that the universe needed an outside 'first cause', but God didn't, which is completely illogical, or should I say a matter of faith?

      What if Jesus came back as a Pope, or a mormon, or something completely a surprise to most Christians, back again as a Jew. A Jew with no interests in Christians. Maybe the Jewish messiah? Wouldn't that be a thrill for you?

      Come on, you know what skepticism is. You are likely skeptical of a great many things, like unicorns and loch ness monsters, but does that mean that you actually just hate the idea of these creatures being real? How about, for you believers, the idea that God may not be actually real? Are you merely skeptical of this idea, or do you actually hate it? It sure does seem to stir up the most intense emotional responses.

      January 15, 2011 at 12:04 am |
  11. ijreilly

    I was wondering if anyone could explain to me how God's love is unconditional if it has a condition (i.e.- You have to believe he exists.) My dog would love me no matter what, even if he knew I didn't think he existed.

    January 14, 2011 at 6:07 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      Let me give it a shot. God does love you unconditionally. He loved you enough to send Jesus to the cross as recorded in JOHN 3:16! He loves you enough to allow you to make you up own mind about Him. To either receive Him or reject Him. All up to you. HOWEVER if you reject Him, His love is NOT enough to keep you out of an eternity with HIM! Look at this way. I celebrate the birthdays of my children! I don't celebrate the birthdays of yours? Why? They are not mine! When you reject God, you are telling Him "you are not my father"! He still loves you! Hope that helps!

      January 15, 2011 at 4:06 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      The analogy with your dog makes no sense! Why would you talking about a dog that does not exist? If the dog did not exist, you would not feed, water, walk or love him/her! Yet you do BECAUSE it exists!

      January 15, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
    • NL

      Steve (the real one)-
      People donate money to, sacrifice to, and pray to thousands of different gods, including God. Does that mean that they all equally exist?

      January 15, 2011 at 11:29 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      NL,

      You are exactly correct! People sacrifice and give to others "gods". However, just because they do, doesn't mean they are serving the ONE TRUE God! They are not!

      January 16, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • NL

      Steve (the real one)-
      Ah, you missed the point of my post altogether. My point is that pagans and people of other faiths all believe that their gods are real too. So, your argument that someone would not service an imaginary being is false unless you believe that all other gods are actually just as real as your own.

      In the dog analogy you would know that your dog is real because your senses tell you that it is, and everyone else can tell as well. God is not real like a pet, right? You only believe he is real, and you have no objective proof that would convince everyone else.

      January 17, 2011 at 12:09 am |
    • Steve (the real one)

      NL The proof you have that He is not real is?? I have proof that He is real. Just take a look at what He created. You would rather ignore it in your quest to prove God does not exist! Why are you all so worried about what Christians believe anyway?

      January 17, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
  12. JohnQuest

    CW, of course I read it, I have no restrictions on what I read I don't have to agree with it to read it. Those arguments were put to rest centuries ago, I'm not certain why they are still around.

    January 14, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
  13. JohnQuest

    Doesn't this prove that God does not exist, consider the following:
    "The most compelling, I feel, is that all things, all motion, all being must have a cause. Even the Big Bang must have cause. All things that exist must have come into existence – but what existed before the first existence". That statement does not have as exception so, if you add in God it leads to a logical loop (who or what created God and so on and so on).

    Second point: "how do we have a common sense of justice or goodness, not an agreement on what should be done, but the very idea that something SHOULD be a certain way at all? "

    It is intrinsic in us, we instinctual know that hurting others is wrong and disruptive to a harmonious society, consider the following, most of us "feel" bad when or if we hurt others even unintentionally, we experience anxiety when we lie or cheat, if these tenets are only wrong because God says so, then whats the need for the emotional and physiological stresses?

    January 14, 2011 at 4:51 pm |
  14. KDH

    Thomas Aquinas wrote an essay, "Reasons in the Proof of God" in 1270. He proposed 5. The most compelling, I feel, is that all things, all motion, all being must have a cause. Even the Big Bang must have cause. All things that exist must have come into existence - but what existed before the first existence? A second strong point he makes: how do we have a common sense of justice or goodness, not an agreement on what should be done, but the very idea that something SHOULD be a certain way at all?

    Science does not claim to answer these questions with any proof. To quote Stuart Chase, an American economist and engineer, "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible."

    January 14, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • CW

      @ KDH,

      Good comment.....I sure hope that Mr JohnQuest read it.....Science is mans way to explain everything...from the big bang theory to the crap of evolution.

      There is only one way...Gods way.

      January 14, 2011 at 4:38 pm |
    • NL

      KDH-
      Ah, but what caused God is a question that Christians seem unable, or unwilling, to answer. God, after all, would be the very 'first existence', right?

      Proof of God really ought to be possible. Christian media is filled with stories of self-professed non-believers who found proof for themselves, but how many of those who have come to believe would admit that there might be some proof that could possibly convince them otherwise? After belief has been established faith takes over, and nothing shakes faith for most. Yet, faith is nothing more than the love of an idea being true, not proof that it is actually true.

      January 14, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • NL

      CW-
      If God does not actually exist, and we have no objective reasons to as.sume that the bible's claim that does is accurate, then all we have is man's way to explain everything. Even if you believe that God actually exists, isn't the bible and all of our Christian tradition still part of 'man's way to explain everything?' Men wrote the bible, and it was people's experience that formed the tradition, after all.

      January 14, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Reality

      Think infinity and recycling with the Big Bang exp-ansion followed by the shrinking reversal called the Gib Gnab and recycling back to the Big Bang repeating the process on and on forever. Human life and Earth are simply a minute part of this chaotic, stochastic, expanding, shrinking process disappearing in five billion years with the burn out of the Sun and maybe returning in another five billion years with different life forms but still subject to the va-garies of its new local star.

      January 15, 2011 at 8:45 am |
  15. Reality

    One more time:

    “I believe the Bible is inspired.” “Why?” “Because it says so.” Would your
    anyone let that logic pass if it came from the followers of any other book
    or person? “I believe x is inspired because x says so.” Fill in the blanks:

    x=Pat Robertson
    x=the ayatolloah Sistani
    x=David Koresh
    x=the Koran
    x=CW

    More logic? :

    “I believe there is One God Jehovah because He is revealed in the infallible
    Bible. I believe the Bible is infallible because it is the Word of the One God Jehovah.”

    January 14, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Mike, not me

      So I dare ask you again, what to you Reality is the highest form of authority?

      January 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • CW

      @ Reality,

      You say
      “I believe there is One God Jehovah because He is revealed in the infallible
      Bible. I believe the Bible is infallible because it is the Word of the One God Jehovah.”

      Are you joking or making a statment of your faith? If you believe then why is it you either one....criticize all the morals of the Bible? and Two...Why do you try to discredit it all the time with some propaganda rant?

      January 14, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • Reality

      CW,

      Tis all about lack of logic when you say the bible is the literally the word of god plus the fact that in all likehood you were Bred, Born and Brainwashed in your religion i.e. your beliefs are simply the result of the randomness of birth. Might want to sit back and think about that.

      January 15, 2011 at 12:01 am |
    • Reality

      Mike,

      The highest form of authority? The rules of humankind!!! e.g. US Const-itution, "Do No Harm", the Code of Hammurabi, the Egyptian Book of the Dead (source of the biblical commandments).

      January 15, 2011 at 12:14 am |
  16. JohnQuest

    CW, you are still "as-suming" that you are right that is a big leap of faith. I would tell your God if I am proven wrong that "Anything that can be as-serted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

    January 14, 2011 at 9:29 am |
    • CW

      @ JohnQuest

      "Anything that can be as-serted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

      Well step right up there...dear sir....the lake of fire has been waiting....happy toasting...or should I say burning.

      @ NL
      first to address Fear...In the Bible it is written that yes all of us are to Fear God...period.

      @ all the rest...accept katherine.

      All I can say is all of you better take heed to the words written in the Bible. You can make all your silly little remarks but remember in the Bible it says you will reap what you sow....you sow no faith...no love for God...no Godly works towards your fellow man....no true believe in God...no personal relationship with God....believe me...you'll be sorry in the end. Please rethink your stance...accept God...believe that Jesus died for your sins....cultivate a personal relationship with him. Its your choice.

      January 14, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • NL

      CW-
      Perhaps it was the accepted norm to fear your father in the past, especially when the bible justified Sharia-like Honor killings but can you see where people in our modern western society have trouble reconciling the image of a loving father as someone to also fear?

      January 14, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Reality

      CW,

      Tis all about lack of logic when you say the bible is the literally the word of god plus the fact that in all likelihood you were Bred, Born and Brainwashed in your religion i.e. your beliefs are simply the result of the randomness of birth. Might want to sit back and think about that.

      And no one needs the bible to be moral. Rules of human conduct were developed long before the bible.

      January 15, 2011 at 12:07 am |
    • cuwmex

      @ Reality

      Wow... born, bred, and brainwashed huh? Thats a funny thing to say from such a naysayer... I was born into faith that is true... I have struggled with my faith since I was in college. And yet, I continue to believe! Its really funny that people who dont believe all look at it as brainwashing... and when there is positive proof, scientific or otherwise, that can disprove the Bible and its teachings... bring that forward and I'll make a decision then. Because all the proof I have seen, and yes I have done plenty of researching on the topic and I'm a History teacher, has never been able to 100% prove anything.

      But I digress...Reality I hope that one day you can feel the way that I do and pray for you and others with the same mindset as you that you will feel the love that I share with other Christians in Christ.

      January 16, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • Something

      cuwmex,

      As a history teacher you must certainly be familiar with historical fiction, and myth, and legend. The Bible is rife with these. You have undoubtedly learned about people who were 100% sure that their course of action was correct, but were wrong. What is your viewpoint on Scientology? They think that they are correct too.

      A rather harsh look at the Bible's errors can be found on the web site Evil Bible dot com. Your research is not thorough if you haven't looked at it. Sure, some of their assertions go a bit over the top, but way too many are valid.

      January 16, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
  17. CW

    @ Reality,

    There it is....the one the only REALITY.....which this person stands for rhetoric...propaganda....to its fullest. I will say this...I hope on Judgement Day when Christ comes back and your standing there....I hope and pray either one you repent...change and accept Jesus as your savor OR that I will be able to see what your going to say to the Lord when he asks you "Why didn't you believe the Bible?" "Why did you try to discredit it?"

    Please....don't hold of the line though with one last propaganda speech...I'm sure if you take the second choice there will be a long line waiting to make that jump into H-e-l-l and by that time it will be too late....for you.

    January 14, 2011 at 8:16 am |
    • pat

      u dumb

      January 14, 2011 at 9:29 am |
    • katherine

      Love until it hurts, then keep loving. Perfect Love casts out all fear.

      January 14, 2011 at 9:57 am |
    • Colin

      Why not accept Zeus as your savior?

      January 14, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • NL

      CW, if fear really your best argument for believing in a loving God then what other kind of response do you expect from logical-minded people?

      January 14, 2011 at 10:27 am |
    • NL

      katherine-
      With all this talk of his love God is still believed to have a terrible temper to those of his children who do not choose to love him, right?

      In modern psychology, even a violent parent who dotes on his own children would likely instil the tendency towards violence in them if he relies on it to solve his 'outside' problems. Non-believers and people of other faiths are seen as God's 'non-domestic' problems So God's chosen children, taking their father's example, seem to rely on threats of violence as their first resort in dealing with outsiders. The apple, it seems, doesn't fall far from the tree. It also sends the not-so-subtle message of how one of his chosen will be disowned should they ever step out of line. Such love!

      January 14, 2011 at 11:57 am |
    • CW

      @ NL,

      You have no idea of God's love because you won't believe...period. As for the your comment on such a loving God....God only asks for obedience....you life....and he will guide you...you have no idea of what God can do in your life.

      Second...my same comment is for you well = Believe Jesus died for your sins establish your own relationship with God = eternal life in Heaven
      If not...then.. Don't believe = Well step right up there...dear sir....the lake of fire has been waiting....happy toasting...or should I say burning....

      January 14, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • NL

      CW-
      Heaven is a hoped for thing, but in this life God can make us happy, right? I'm already happy and I didn't need God to do it. I did it myself, and everyone could do the same if they tried. So, for your life and unquestioning obedience, you will be rewarded with something that you could earn for yourself. Doesn't sound like much of a deal if you ask me.

      Second, is God actually saving anyone from hell, or is he in reality sending his enemies there? There is a huge difference between the two perceptions. After all, who made hell?

      January 14, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      NL
      katherine-
      With all this talk of his love God is still believed to have a terrible temper to those of his children who do not choose to love him, right?
      ---------–

      Wrong! Those who reject God ARE NOT His children. They are His creation, just like we all are but ARE NOT His children! In order to be children, there has to be a relation established through Christ Jesus! That is the ONLY way to become His child! n

      January 15, 2011 at 4:14 pm |
    • NL

      Steve (the real one)-
      Yet, Ephesians 1:5 says "he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will"

      How can someone who is predestined to be a child of God have had a choice in the matter?

      January 16, 2011 at 12:43 am |
    • cuwmex

      @ NL

      And yet we still have free will to choose as we please. God wants us to come to Him of our own accord. The love He shows us is all around us and if/when you feel that love you know it. You can have your doubts and other beliefs if you so choose, but for me and many like me, there is a saving grace found only when you accept Jesus as your Savior. I pray that you can one day feel the way that I do.

      January 16, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
    • NL

      cuwmex
      How do you understand 'predestined'? If it means only foreknowledge of what we would choose, with absolutely no interference on his part in human lives, then we might have free will, but if it means that God preselected who would be saved, giving them special signs that would allow them to overpower their natural skepticism, and if he made this selection prior to our making our choice to accept him, we would not have had the free will to make that choice, right? I'm thinking of Romans 9:11-22 here. God chooses who will be saved and there's nothing we can do about it, and if that's so, then there is no free will to choose God if he doesn't want you, right?

      January 16, 2011 at 11:59 pm |
  18. Ron

    It'll be a great addition to the 'fiction' section of the Library.

    January 14, 2011 at 7:42 am |
    • Reality

      Actually, the semi-fiction section. Thirty percent of the bible does have some historical authenticity if you believe most of the contemporary historic Jesus experts and the Conservative wing of Judaism.

      January 14, 2011 at 8:08 am |
  19. Muneef

    Well any true words that proves things been changed since?

    January 14, 2011 at 6:12 am |
  20. Easy Money

    They're going to auction it off so they don't have to sell band candy this year. WooHoo!

    January 14, 2011 at 12:13 am |
    • cuwmex

      Funny you should say that... no they are not... its part of the Church history... its going to remain there!

      January 16, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.