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February 7th, 2011
07:39 AM ET

Gay parenting takes off in the Bible Belt

By Rich Phillips, Senior Producer

Jacksonville, Florida (CNN) – Latisha Bines and Misty Gray cheered like any other parents at a recent middle school soccer game.

They're the two soccer moms in 13-year-old Darion Bines’ life. The women and all three of Latisha’s children operate as a family. And they've turned to their church for support, suggesting a changing face of the Bible Belt.

Data from the most recent U.S. Census shows that the South has the largest share of gay parents in the country.

“There are more of us coming out,” Bines said. “We’re feeling more comfortable about who we are. I guess it gives us more of a chance than back in the '80s, when you had to stay in the closet because you were ridiculed.”

Bines came out after having three children. She and Misty were joined as life partners in 2010 commitment ceremony. They live in part of the conservative Deep South, where many communities have not been receptive to so-called gay families.

“Gay and lesbian people tend to come out later in life, in those areas, which means they are more likely to have children from a previous relationship earlier in their lives,” said Gary Gates, a demographer with the Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles, School of Law.

Gates analyzed the data from the American Community Survey from 2005-09, which is administered by the Census Bureau. His analysis also showed that across the country, gay parents are more likely to be black or Hispanic than they are to be white.

According to the survey, San Antonio, Texas, leads the country in gay parenting, with 34% of same-sex couples raising children. That's followed by Jacksonville, Florida at 32%.

Read more about gay adoption in Florida.

Bines and Gray have lived in Jacksonville all their lives.

They say they’ve found that their sexual orientation and spirituality can come together and be welcomed in gay-friendly Jacksonville area churches that were once off limits.

“It was welcome. It was comfortable,” Bines said. “We’re lesbian, but our God still loves us, no matter what.”

Bines sings in the choir at the nondenominational St. Luke’s Community Church, which was firebombed three times in the 1980s, apparently because of its policy of welcoming lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender congregants.

The church's pastor, Valerie Williams, is a gay activist. She says church policy all about family acceptance, especially for children.

The goal is “acceptance of their parents and being able to be around other children who have the same makeup of families that they have,” she said. "God is love and that’s the God that we serve here.”

Some local congregations challenge Williams' approach. When word of Jacksonville’s gay parent ranking in the census began to spread, one pastor asked for everyone to pray.

Pastor Vaughn McLaughlin, of the Potter’s House Christian Fellowship, told CNN that the Bible does not teach or encourage gay relationships, which he says confuse children.

“A lifestyle of open, same-sex relationships, that can’t regenerate, that can’t produce, that can’t do anything,"  said McLaughlin, who leads a megachurch. "I find it to be over and against what I actually have found the truth of the Bible to be.”

“Marriage is between a man and a woman," he continued. "That’s the biblical premise for what we believe, for what we teach, and we’re gonna hold on to that.”

But at St. Luke’s, Williams defended the rights of gay people and their families to worship.

“The children are able to serve God , with their families, and not being judged by the person sitting in the pew in front of them… snickering, like, ‘Why do they have kids? Why are they here?’”

Williams has started a support group for the children of gay parents. There, kids can talk about problems they're dealing with, including discrimination, over a hot dog or spaghetti dinner and review their report cards with Williams, who is known by congregants as Pastor Val.

And for Bines and Gray, the church has been a welcome addition to their lives.

“It’s brought us together, structurally as a family,” Gray said. “And because of the recent death rates, the suicide rates for kids being bullied, it’s extremely strong for the church to be a factor in the kids lives.”

Gates, the demographer, and Williams said they believe a cultural or religious support system might allow people to be more honest about their sexual orientation on a government survey.

“People are more willing to indicate on these government surveys that they are part of a same-sex couple, even in the more conservative parts of the country,” said Gates. “It’s a sign of progress.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Florida • Gay marriage • Homosexuality • Houses of worship • United States

soundoff (1,055 Responses)
  1. Marla

    What a wonderful pastor! She is creating what a church community is supposed to be.

    February 7, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
    • Jenn

      Marla, I completely agree! We can hang out, I find these other posters absolutely tedioussss

      February 7, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
  2. JohnQuest

    Adam, what I don't get is why would an all powerful, all knowing being that is beyond our space, time, matter and reality care who we love or sleep with or anything else. That is kind of like us caring if one earthworm in 10,000 living on a planet on the opposite end of the universe is gay, Why would we care?

    February 7, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Good post. The arrogance of those who think they "know" what God "thinks" because they read the Bible is laughable. It is all far beyond our understanding and those who insist that only their beliefs are correct are simply silly.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • brad

      "what I don't get is why would an all powerful, all knowing being that is beyond our space, time, matter and reality care who we love or sleep with or anything else."
      God is said to be omniscient (all knowing) and omnipresent (in all places) and all loving. God is so vast the universe cannot contain God, yet is totally present on the head of a pin. This is because God cannot be divided. There are no shadows in Him. Wherever God is, He is there totally with all His knowledge and love. That is how God is aware of and interested in what we do as creatures whom He loves. God is totally present to JohnQuest and probably even to me – brad.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @brad
      You said: "That is how God is aware of and interested in what we do as creatures whom He loves."

      Hmmm... Your god seems to be overly interested in human's genitals. Why is he such a perv?

      Curious in Arizona

      February 7, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • Reality

      brad, brad, brad,

      Some words of wisdom:

      In Church: The Human Story of God, the famous, contemporary theologian Edward Schillebeeckx concluded,

      "Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

      Bottom line: One of God's(if one exists) greatest gifts to us is that of the Future.

      Schillebeeckx was responding to the Dutch citizens who were blaming God for the North Sea storms that destroyed a significant number of levees resulting in a significant loss of life and severe storm damage. Sound familiar??

      February 7, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • Colin

      As the ysay John, Christianity is the belief that an invisible, infinitely-old, all-knowing super-being, powerful enough to create the entire Universe and its billions of galaxies, has a personal interest in my $ex life.

      Atheism is the belief that the above belief is silly.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • cadecker

      ask god when you meet him... he will tell you he already told you but you didnt listen

      February 7, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
  3. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    @CW, you're nearly illiterate. Why are you blabbering on a message board and not getting a decent education. You're committing a far greater sin than anyone you're castigating: you're wasting your time and your potential to be an educated, productive person. Go get your GED.

    February 7, 2011 at 11:46 am |
  4. Adam

    The only thing I don't quite get is why would loving gay people accept and worship a supernatural agent who explicitly (as in DIRECTLY SPEAKS) states in His "good book" that for their actions they "have forfeited their lives."

    You may love Him, but to assume reciprocity is as misguided as assuming that you are allowed the right to a personal exegesis of convenience. Our morality has evolved, and the God of Abraham is now demonstrably below human civilization's best understanding of the moral landscape. Why are we excerpting and mangling our Holy books just so we can carry them into the 21st century? Leave them where they belong–in the ashes of history.

    February 7, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Justina

      Adam, morality does not evolve; it either gets corrected or get corrupted. Mankind is getting themselves ready to be punished globaly again. People of Noah's time and Sodomites were downright immoral and stupid and so our generations are. Nothing got evolved. It's been all prophesied. Thank Christians for telling you some hard truth.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • nonesuch

      Oh, brother. I hope when the Rapture comes, it'll remove people like you. You're a menace to peace and love.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Justina,
      If morality doesn't evolve, i.e. change, then why don't we follow OT laws? And, how could Christ 'fulfill' something that doesn't change?

      Also, if morality doesn't change, then you see nothing wrong with the insti.tution of slavery, correct?

      February 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • Justina

      Nonimus, our history has phases called dispensation. Jesus Christ came to our world to fulfill the demands of God's Law upon mankind. He's done away with ritual and national laws by Himself, and His life, death, resurrection and ascention brought a new era upon the earth; the reason we have the New Testament(covenant). Slavery has been a normal practice of mankind throughout the world, until the Bible-reading Christians abolished it everywhere. It took time, but human population wasn't mush until 200 years ago. God wrote on slavery and employment so that people will not abuse each other, as humans abuse any kind of power that is in existence. And so that we will learn to obey only God, because serving self is the worst tyranny of all.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Justina

      @Nonimas: Jesus fulfilled the Law on behalf of us so that those who believe in Him will be perfected by His life. His true followers give the utmost best to follow the moral laws in OT and much beyond the OT moral laws by the new life Jesus imparts on them.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
    • Anglican

      Justina. We are brother and sister in Christ. Remember, Christ never turned away a sinner, He only turned away the self-rightous, who used the Law to make outcasts of sinners and the unclean. I know you are one of the Faithful. Do not turn away anyone. Love all, as Jesus loved and loves all. Peace. (I assume you are my sister based on your name, forgive me if I am incorrect)

      February 7, 2011 at 1:04 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Justina,
      I'm confused. 'Evolve' in a non-biological sense means simply change over time. If there is no change in morality, why did we need a 'New' testament? Dispensations, which admittedly I'm not familiar with, and 'fulfilling' the 'old' law are just ways of justifying change, which is fine, but isn't it still change?

      On slavery, I'm also confused, is God okay with slavery or not? He was and now He's not? Or He's always been against it but looked the other way for millennia?

      February 7, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • Justina

      Anglican, thank you. But every sinner who came to Jesus repented of the sins; none of them boasted of retaining the sinful lifestyle! Jesus also scolded false religious teachers who never taught people to come back to God. Read Revelation 1-3. Immoral churches get erased by Jesus Himself.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Justina

      Nonimus, moral standard has been with mankind all along, from the beginning. Trusting God and obeying Him because it is good and right thing to do, loving others and walking with God. But people rebelled and morality was abused like no other. In the fallen world, people working under others became necessary for a grand economy. God did not command an economy form; He is against any and every abuse of a human being or creation. Nonimus, how much abuse was done even after the liberation of slaves by Christian principles? American society is sicker than ever with its hedonistic secularism. Westerners who bash Christianity are very stupid and evil, having no knowledge or even conscience.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Justina,
      "...He is against any and every abuse of a human being or creation."
      If owning another person is not abusing them, by it's very nature, then I'm not sure I agree with what you call morality anyway. As far as I'm aware God/Jesus never condemned slavery and under some interpretations actually condoned it. These two things are not compatible.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Justina

      Nonimus, little children have to obey their parents as if they are owned by them. Your spause completely owns you emotionally and maritally. Anyone whom you must listen in a sense owns a part of you. If yoiu don't have means to support yourself, you have to work under a person to get a bread. Working to survive is the way on this planet. Peasants were literally owned by landlords, though the term slavery wasn't used. You irreligious are all the time same. Slandering better people than they but do nothing for humanity. Look at your own life and stop bashing Christians, even if you won't do anything to free the 30 million slaves today unlike Christians who tirelessly toil to free them.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
    • Anglican

      Justina. One simple question. Why did Christ do for you?

      February 7, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • Anglican

      Justina. Sorry, "die for you"

      February 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Justina,
      You confuse me yet again.
      You talk about children being owned by parents (not correct by the way, just try selling a child in the US), everyone being owned by our spouses (not correct, marriage is a mutual partnership, neither is allowed to physically harm or sell the other), and employees being owned by their employer (not correct, get another job) all to apparently justify an acceptence or at least ambivelence toward slavery.
      And, yet you then state "you won't do anything to free the 30 million slaves today." wny should I? According to you there is nothing wrong with slavery. (You also have no idea what I do or don't do about slavery.)

      "You irreligious... slandering better people than [you] ..." Ahhh, what pure, unadulterated arogance!

      Thank you [un]Justina, thank you

      February 7, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Being gay is not a sin; being straight is not a sin; fornication is a sin.

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0sILSapUUc&w=640&h=360]

      February 7, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Adam,
      The “good book” doesn’t just speak to gay people…it speaks to all people. There are actions that all people need to be aware of for their own sakes. For-nication by anyone is an abo-minable action. S3x is for a married man and woman only. You can see how this would be wholly the best way for man to live in light of what we know about disease and sin….our conscience is a great help here in warding off things we know aren’t good for us.

      February 8, 2011 at 11:11 am |
  5. JohnQuest

    Chae Hun Cho, there are more sins listed in the Christian bible to list on this blog, Are you saying that you have not committed any of them?

    Strictly speaking the Bible says Nothing about same se-x marriage, you have to "infer" it or apply your own reasoning to the text.

    February 7, 2011 at 11:38 am |
  6. Chae Hun Cho

    Everything is not OK because of love.. Love can't simply erase our sin.. Otherwise we'd been saved already from His Love..

    WE're not however.. That's way it's called a message of Hope/ not a message of everyhing's gonna be all right no matter what people do..

    February 7, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • Justina

      @Cho: Yes, God is holy and His love is holy. The perversion supporters and atheists don't get this, though for millions times they were told because they love darkness instead of Light, as John chapter 1- 3 says.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Justina, who was John? Was he God? No? Then those are his words, not God's.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • cadecker

      Tom...sometimes god uses people to tell his words... its your choice to believe and listen to it ... john listened and saw the end of the world as god showed him...to tell you...and you know what....its being fullfilled everyday...just like this subject we are talking about...it will get worse and worse until he comes back ... the past century has shown it exponentally grow to what it is now...the time of man is coming to a climax...the unbelievers such as your self willl grow too... maybe if you listened to john too...you would see the truth too...and how god talks to man..and how it is all around you in everyday life ... 🙂

      February 7, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
    • cadecker

      we are actually saved by his blood on the cross...he died for ours sins so we can be saved.

      February 7, 2011 at 7:35 pm |
  7. Chae Hun Cho

    I love..You love.. We all love.. Who said we don't?? I't's just that gay marriage is still WRONG!! As the bible says..

    February 7, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • nonesuch

      The Bible doesn't say any such thing. You simply choose to misinterpret and cherry-pick to suit your own agenda. Guess what? People will still be gay and they'll still get married and they'll still have children, and there's not a thing you can do about it but spew and sputter. You think you know the mind of God, but you're not God and you don't know what God wants. Just mind your own business and stop flattering yourself.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:35 am |
    • CW

      @ Nonesuch,

      You are clearly WRONG!! There are a ho-'st of verses see 1 corithians 6, or Romans 1. PLENTY OF VERSES on this subject that all say ITS WRONG!!! Not to mention what it says in the Old testiment about this.

      I would encourage you to read the bible....for yourself.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • nonesuch

      You dip, you can barely write a sentence. You aren't capable of actually understanding what the Bible says and your interpretation of it is akin to that of a toddler.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really, CW, you don't seem very intelligent at all. You are claiming to understand exactly what is said in the Bible as if it were some sort of cookbook to be taken literally. That's not necessarily the only way to interpret the stories of the Bible. It's just what you prefer. You don't get to make the rules for everyone, and your beliefs are not the only valid ones. Your insistence that you absolutely "know" that being gay is "wrong" is simply not true. You know nothing of the sort. It's your opinion, not fact.

      And what is with the crazy apostrophes? g'ay? mu'der'er?

      February 7, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • CW

      @ nonesuch,

      Oh really...please stop...your going to make me cry....Ha Ha Ha Ha....read your comments...sounds like to me you don't have a good grasp of the bible. If you did you would PLAINLY know that it is spelled out. Better yet...since your such a steward of the bible point to me scripture where this lifestyle is okay....now go on...start talking about how I need to get some education or my spelling or something like that....rather than admitting that you don't have anything that proves your point.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • Anglican

      CW. Ok, for the sake of this argument, let us say that being gay is a sin. Do you not sin. Do you not covet, or harbor ill will. It sounds as if you hate. Are not all these things sin? Love God, love neighbor. That is our charge. Anything else is a sin. Peace

      February 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • nonesuch

      CW, the fact that you are obviously incapable of actually reading much that's beyond an 8th grade level is sufficient evidence for me to surmise that you are not capable of anything but the most simplistic and literal interpretations of a book that scholars have struggled to understand for millennia.

      You think you have some sort of corner on this market. You don't. You just believe you do. Many people have read the Bible with far greater understanding and intelligence than you possess and they do not interpret the verses you're so fond of quoting the way you do. Are you so arrogant that you don't recognize you aren't perfect and that your beliefs may not be the only valid ones? Silly question...obviously, you are just that sanctimonious.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • concernedparent

      "LIKE" : )

      February 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • CW

      @ Angelican,

      You say:

      "Ok, for the sake of this argument, let us say that being gay is a sin. Do you not sin. Do you not covet, or harbor ill will"

      I say: Yes I'm sinner...your a sinner...we all sin...but didn't God say when we ask for true repentance that we are to "sin no more". What that means is yes I do love my neighbor...but if my neighbor wants to live in sin...and say they are christian...am I not to point out how that isn't true repentance? If not then the many letters that apostles wrote to the first churches it wouldn't have spelled out how to bring another brother or sister back to Christ now would it. Better yet let me ask....if someone is living in sin and you know this....you have repented and live as Godly as you can...wouldn't you try to save this person? That is all I'm trying to do...but at the same time people come out and say that its okay to live in sin and say your christian...that isn't true...there are also those that say what I'm saying is H-'a-'te speech when I'm pointing to what the Bible says.

      Now for one part of your thought...."let us say that being gay is a sin".....there isn't any discussion here...no grey area...its spelled out in the Bible...this lifestyle is wrong.

      February 7, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
  8. @bigplansphil

    don't judge gay people for being sinners. It is like beating a baby for crying. They do what comes natural. God does make it clear that it is an abomination to lay with folks of your gender. Romans 1:26 and a host of other verses are not included in the Gay rights church Bible. SMH and praying for this fallen world

    February 7, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • browardcountyboy

      I would rather pray because of your rigid mind.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:35 am |
  9. Lynne

    Just because the Bible says it doesn't mean it's always morally right. Men wrote the chapters in the Bible who had their own motivations for what they were preaching at the time to control the largely uneducated population at the time. It's easy to cherry pick phrases to suit your own agenda.

    February 7, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • nonesuch

      Exactly. Funny how the fundies choose Leviticus to quote and yet ignore all the other "laws" that appear in the same book. If you wear clothing of cotton and polyester blended together, you are committing a sin. If you eat shrimp, you are committing a sin.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Justina

      Lynne, the entire Bible is proven to be the unified Word of God. The Bible educated people to do what is right. Mankind never produced such a systematic, meaningful Book, and all great men and women pushed themselves to do great things for all humanity because of what the Bible teaches. From the Bible, mankind receieved the highest aspirations and has found a reason to live and fight for justice, not to overlook evil or be oppressed by it.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • Magic

      Justina,

      "the entire Bible is proven to be the unified Word of God."

      No, this has not been proven.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Proven"? By whom? Where's the data? Go ahead and show me any proof that is worthy of the word. What a nut.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Justina

      Nonesuch, Jesus fulfilled all the ritual and cultural laws, but everything in Mosaic Laws has spritual significance and every moral law in OT must be obeyed by His followers(Christians). Among other things, clothing of unmixed nature indicates importance of our single-heartedness in life, and the commands in diet were for preservation of specialized wisdom and godly discipline of God's people(Jews). You just need to study in depth. Scorners don't get anything in any subject.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Justina

      The Bible is proven in the following reasons. All knowledge fields including science and archaeology conform its truthfulness; no error is found to be contained in the Bible. Prophesies are all fulfilled except for the Endtime ones. The most sought and most read Book in the entire human history all over the world. All wholesome readers of it change their lives drastacally for good; no other book changed mankind for good like the Bible does. All good laws and sane ideologies on earth today take its roots in the Bible. The Bible is the most revered, respected Book always and today, by 2/3 of mankind, because of its supernatural, superb contents and its effects. The Bible is hated only by villains.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • nonesuch

      Oh, so it's okay for YOU to interpret the Bible as you see fit, but not okay when someone else interprets it differently? Got it.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Justina

      It can't even be proven, that Jesus, the star of the New Testament, ever existed.

      There were no eyewitness accounts of Jesus. The Gospels were written by god knows who in the third person. The Gospels were written with an agenda i.e., Jesus was the Messiah and Son of God.

      Paul NEVER met Jesus. He wrote of Jesus Twenty-five years after Christ died. More than enough time, especially in a superst_itious Bronze Age society, for the Jesus myth to grow. And remember, Paul is the father of what most Christians believe – Pauline Christianity.

      So, what Paul says, is heresay or as some think, Paul's words not Jesus's.

      We know virtually nothing about the persons who wrote the gospels we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
      -Elaine Pagels, Professor of Religion at Princeton University, (The Gnostic Gospels)

      The bottom line is we really don't know for sure who wrote the Gospels.
      -Jerome Neyrey, of the Weston School of Theology, Cambridge, Mass. in "The Four Gospels," (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

      Jesus is a mythical figure in the tradition of pagan mythology and almost nothing in all of ancient literature would lead one to believe otherwise. Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it.
      -C. Dennis McKinsey, Bible critic (The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy)

      There are no known secular writings about Jesus, that aren't forgeries, later insertions, or heresay. NONE!
      Most of the disputed writings came from people who lived AFTER Jesus was dead. Can you say heresay?

      We don't even have a wooden shelf that Jesus might have built. Or anything written by Jesus (He was probably illiterate).

      The Dead Sea Scrolls did not mention Jesus or have any New Testament scripture.

      Jesus, if he existed, was not considered important enough to write about by any contemporary person. The myth hadn't had a chance to flourish.

      If Jesus was the Messiah, why wouldn't god/Jesus have left tons of evidence? Multiple Writings by contemporary eyewitnesses – Jews and Romans.

      There are thousands of different denominations of Christianity. Why couldn't an all knowing, all powerful, all good god "inspire" a bible that no one could misinterpret? Why are there multiple religions, with their own god(s)?

      Does God strongly desire that everyone, or almost everyone, believe that he exists?

      Cheers!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      @Justina,

      a Word of advice If I may. When you get frustrated on this blog (AND YOU WILL) while sharing your faith, back down, take a deep breath, pray, and take day off from it! Learn to move on! Some of these folk will get you on the "prove it merry go round". Don't bite! All you can do is share and pray! Jesus never forced Himself on anyone nor can we force Jesus on anyone! Jesus never argued anyone into Heaven, nor can we. I am not saying you are doing these things, I am just sharing from personal experience! May God bless!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Justina

      @David, Life of Jesus was all recoreded by eye-witnesses within the dates of 20-60 years of His ascention. Most of His followers died martyr's death, testifying what they confessed are utmost true. People don't die for lies. There are no contradictions within the Bible and with other ancient historical records. Secular Roman record has Pontias Pilate executing a Jewish man by the name of Jesus. If you'd deny the records of the New Testament, then you should deny all historic characters ever recoreded in anything including such people like George Washington. In history, all you have is eye-witnesses' records, nothing else. You believe anything people said or wrote, but not the Bible writers. Your bias against NT is dishonesty, and it's malicious because you didn't read it.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • Justina

      Steve, thank you. You are right. It takes the Holy Spirit for us to see the Truth. I'm writing more for my fellow "Christians".

      February 7, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • Magic

      Justina,

      Wow! Where to start with you and your sweeping generalizations...?

      <"All knowledge fields including science and archaeology conform its truthfulness."

      No, they might confirm its existence as the stories/writings of primitive Middle Eastern men, and how they tried to make sense of a world that they didn't understand; but truth, especially the supernatural kind, is not proven.

      <"no error is found to be contained in the Bible."

      There are quite a few errors: that the earth is a circle, for one; too many to go into here, but another sample: Gen 32:30 states, "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." However, John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..." Both statements cannot be true.

      <"Prophesies are all fulfilled except for the Endtime ones"

      Entire books have been written on these failed and manipulated-to-seem fulfilled prophesies. The most glaring is the one by Jesus (via Paul), who said that he would be back in Paul's lifetime.

      <"All wholesome readers of it change their lives drastacally for good;"

      Oh, like Jim Jones, David Koresh, Joseph Smith and even Mohammad.... oh, I know, they weren't "wholesome" enough for you... "wholesome" = what *you* want it to mean.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Steve the real one,
      Probably good advice for many; back away, take a deep breath, and take some time off from it and learn to move on.
      Although, as one of "these folk," you folk might also want ease up on the statements that can start the "prove it merry go round," such as, "the entire Bible is proven to be the unified Word of God," unless you can back it up with actual evidence.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • Magic

      Justina,

      "People don't die for lies."

      Really? Again I will point to obvious, glaring examples: the followers of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate and a mult!tude of Muslim suicide bombers.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • New Wicca

      @Justina...But mankind DID create a "systematic" and "meaningful" book...it's called the BIBLE, and MAN wrote every word of it. No proof of divinity, just paper and ink.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Nonimus,

      Creation itself displays the very glory of God. Some choose to see it and some attribute creation to evolution. Proof that God exists? His creation! Again, some will attribute it to evolution!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • NL

      Justina-
      On the issue of slavery both sides could quote scripture in support. Surely, had God been less ambiguous in his message a great deal of suffering may have been prevented unless, as Lincoln suspected, the suffering was all part of God's plan. The bible still has these pro-slavery verses, yet Christians have chosen to reject them for a modern idea that slavery is inherently evil. What prevents a similar change regarding this issue?

      February 7, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Steve the real one,
      If you had evidence that 'God' existed and that He created the universe then you might have a point, but since you don't, you don't.

      February 7, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • Justina

      Magic, the disciples in the 1st century were imprisoned, tortured, put to death or exiled on whether what they saw and heard were true or not. It was giving up the life for testifying something one directly knows to be true and vital, and totally different from being deceived or indoctrinated to kill oneself and others. NewW-, the Bible is supreme in its content in everyway; the Author is unmistakably God. Read yourself and then talk about it.

      February 7, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Nonimus, Nonimus, Nonimus,

      His creation is proof, what He has done in my life is proof, thefact that you are still breathing is proof! It is simple, I don't need God to provide a disertation on the proofs He exists, you do! You are searching for Him with your head, I have with my heart! I have experienced Him! It is about faith, which is a matter of the heart and not head! if you change the approach in which you seek, you WILL find!

      February 7, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • Justina

      NL, slavery is actually not political issues but a staunch part of human nature and how our present economy system works; the reason we cannot get rid of emplyer-employee relationship or the rich-poor difference either. The issue is how much we actually adopt what the Bible teaches as spiritual truth into our society – the equality of all. American Christians have been truly great in their articulate applications of Biblical truthes into human societies, but of course things were never perfect and never will be until Christ comes back. Literal slavery is largely a problem of other parts of the world today but America is facing the deadly problems of moral decadence. So we just got a different major problem; we didn't get better as a society. Not at all. Human societies just continue to create problems Christians have to work on and sacrifice for them.

      February 7, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      "what He has done in my life is proof"
      If just a few things in your horoscope actually came even remotely close to what actually happens in your life wouldn't you be just as justified in believing that to be proof that astrology is really true?

      February 7, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • Justina

      NL, equality of all itself must not be worshipped, because equality does not mean the same roles of everyone. Great concept such as freedom, equality, peace all have other restricting factors, and you cannot hung on to those "good" concepts blindly. For example, freedom that promotes perversion, equality without respects or order, and peace on the expense of other nations' well-being are all categorized as evil.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      NL,

      I wouldn't know about that as I do not read any horoscopes!

      February 7, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Justina

      Christians love unconditionally and rescue. Atheists mock, kill and destroy. Proof.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Steve the real one,
      Ahh... perhaps this is just a misunderstanding. You say proof and yet talk of feelings and faith. What I think you are saying is that you are convinced, based on your faith and experience, that God exists. Which is fine; I have no argument with that. 'Proof' however is defined differently and requires some evidence:

      proof -n
      1. any evidence that establishes or helps to establish the truth, validity, quality, etc, of something
      2. (law) the whole body of evidence upon which the verdict of a court is based
      3. (maths, logic direct induction See also induction) a sequence of steps or statements that establishes the truth of a proposition
      4. the act of testing the truth of something (esp in the phrase put to the proof )
      [there are more but they are industry/specialty specific]

      "proof." Collins English Dictionary – Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition. HarperCollins Publishers. 07 Feb. 2011.
      Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proof.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • NL

      Justina-
      Way to dodge the issue of bible sanctioned slavery, but I'll let that go for now. It wasn't like I was actually expecting an answer anyway.

      "The issue is how much we actually adopt what the Bible teaches as spiritual truth into our society – the equality of all."
      Ah, but that is what we are arguing here isn't it, the equality of all? Why can gay people not be allowed equality within our society, or even within a chosen faith? You say 'moral decadence' is a problem, but the mothers in this story are committed to one another, and obviously not part of that problem, right?

      "Human societies just continue to create problems Christians have to work on and sacrifice for them."
      You see society's growing acceptance of gays as creating a 'new problem' whereas others see it as the solution to a very old problem. Have you ever considered that the greater the acceptance of long-term gay relationships will likely have the effect of lessening the number of casual gay liaisons?

      February 7, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Juliet

      "Lynne, the entire Bible is proven to be the unified Word of God. The Bible educated people to do what is right. Mankind never produced such a systematic, meaningful Book, and all great men and women pushed themselves to do great things for all humanity because of what the Bible teaches. From the Bible, mankind receieved the highest aspirations and has found a reason to live and fight for justice, not to overlook evil or be oppressed by it."

      Justina, I've read the Bible several times. I am horrified by the idea that it is pure good. That god represents the depths of evil in the human soul–our petty nastiness towards one another. I reject the Bible as I reject the Koran. As I reject the Torah. As I reject ANY dogma that preaches hate or useless violence. Wisdom, joy and freedom come from that rejection. I have the freedom to live in a way that is good and honest. I have the freedom to know myself and others as they ARE. It is good. I believe in the ability of myself and my fellow humans to use reason to figure out how to live well. Your book holds us back from the goodness we could bring to one another and to ourselves. Any god worth worshiping would applaud mankind's rejection of such half-baked morality and would be thrilled to watch as we do better.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      Nonimus,

      Yes it is about faith. Yet I also stated that creation is proof. Look up at the sky on a clear night Nonimus. I do and I cannot understand why folk think this is the result of an accident! Look at a newborn! Again God handy work! I see the hand of God in all of this. Childlike? Absolutely! That is the best kind of faith to have! That is the kind of faith that get God's attention! We can disagree however I cannot, will not ever deny My God because I KNOW he is real! I am not alone in this either! The proof I have is labeled as being not concrete or good enough for you! That is not your issue with me or other Christians. That is an issue you have with the God you think does not exist!

      February 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      "I wouldn't know about that as I do not read any horoscopes!"

      How very interesting, but it could be palm readings, tea leaves, fortune cookies or what have you. It could even be a football player's staunch belief in 'lucky' socks. Surely you must be aware that some people believe in such things just as you believe in the Spirit's working in people's lives? Sometimes people beat the odds and get lucky, or their 'readings' (kinda) come true. People who experience this tend to see it as validation of their beliefs just as Christians who experience something out of the ordinary tend to read it as the Spirit's working. To the skeptic's eye both are just as subjective an experience.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Justina

      Juliet, the problem for you is you are neither good or honest. Violence is inevitable in dealing with criminals and armed villains. This planet is not a villain-free wonderland. You are simply dreaming a filthy, selfish peace. You wouldn't have killed unborn innocent humans if you were truly good. Your morality is screwed as your tainted goodness goes. You need God's grace to carry out good. God is love and He is holy and just, unlike you.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Maybe

      Justina,

      "You wouldn't have killed unborn innocent humans if you were truly good."

      Yet your "God" does this every day , but gets a pass just cuz "he's" such a love bug...

      February 7, 2011 at 3:01 pm |
    • NL

      Justina-
      "For example, freedom that promotes perversion"
      But why is a committed relationship between two adults a "perversion"? Interracial relationships used to be thought of this way, and good Christians merely looked to Deuteronomy for the appropriate verse, even though race is not even mentioned:
      7:3–4
      "3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you."

      Yet, with time, most have somehow managed to drop this particular belief without society falling into utter decay and without God destroying them, right?

      February 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Steve the real one
      "Yet I also stated that creation is proof....I see the hand of God in all of this.... That is the best kind of faith to have!"
      Evidence is objective, proof is objective, if it requires faith it is neither.

      "That is an issue you have with the God you think does not exist!"
      Technically, I never claimed the God does not exist. However, I agree that if He exists then He should show Himself; convince me He exists. Abraham, Moses, the apostles, non of them needed faith, they had evidence; God appeared or demonstrated His power. Why do the greatest of prophets/disciples get the easiest path to believe while we common folk are required to trust in some 2000 year old book?
      Also, that would imply that Christians' proselytizing is useless, if it is between me and God then stay out of it!!
      If you must do something pray that God will reveal Himself to me. He knows exactly what will convince me and yet He does nothing! hmmm...

      February 7, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Justina

      You said: "Life of Jesus was all recoreded by eye-witnesses within the dates of 20-60 years of His ascention. Most of His followers died martyr's death, testifying what they confessed are utmost true. People don't die for lies."

      People do die for lies? The Muslim radicals blow themselves to bits for their beliefs. Does this mean their religion and god is real? The people of Jonestown and Heaven's Gate died for a lie. Or, does there willingness to die mean their beliefs were real?

      There is no credible evidence that the apostles or Jesus ever existed. We don't have any original writings or relics.

      You said: "Secular Roman record has Pontias Pilate executing a Jewish man by the name of Jesus."

      There is no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. There occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All doc_uments about Jesus came well after the life of Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

      You said: "If you'd deny the records of the New Testament, then you should deny all historic characters ever recoreded in anything including such people like George Washington."

      I can prove that George Washington existed because we have his original writings as well as the original writings of literally dozens of people who knew him (eyewitness testimony). They all agree on the basic facts of George's existence. This is true of most historic characters.

      You said: "all you have is eye-witnesses' records, nothing else."

      Eyewitness testimony is as good as it gets. It is the only kind accepted in court. There is NO eyewitness testimony for Jesus. All is heresay. It is worthless. If there was multiple, valid eyewitness testimony about Jesus, I would accept it as proof of His existence.

      You do not believe in Christianity because it is true. To you Christianity is true because you believe it.

      Cheers!

      February 7, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
    • Patrick

      @Justina: You obviously need to read more.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
    • maryLand

      JUstina needs to shut up and listen more, among other things.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      NL,

      No argument that some hold onto supersti-tions such as rabbits feet, lucky socks, tea leaves. I will say this I have no need to such things nor do I need any luck. I have the Lord Jesus! I also know that some will say my belief is superst-ition as well. I really cannot help what other people think. I am satisifed with Christ! We share our faith, NL. Whether you recieve it as true or not is up to you! Your say is in YOUR acceptance or not, and NOT limiting us to share! We both have been on this blog long enough to know where we each stand. My duty is to share my faith. Again the choice to accept it or not is clearly yours! Ask anyone who has been saved if the sharing of faith is useless! I know what that answer will be! A big fat ...NO!

      February 7, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • Magic

      Justina,

      "It was giving up the life for testifying something one directly knows to be true and vital, and totally different from being deceived or indoctrinated to kill oneself and others."

      Perhaps the disciples were deceived or indoctrinated.

      And what about the 'witches' in history who were executed or exiled. They were willing to die for an eye of newt and toe of frog...

      February 7, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      If I may say something here….
      I never thought you had any concern… whether a liaison was short or long-tern….

      February 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      "No argument that some hold onto supersti-tions such as rabbits feet, lucky socks, tea leaves. I will say this I have no need to such things nor do I need any luck. I have the Lord Jesus!"

      And my argument is that there is no real objective difference between the two if someone believes in luck just as much as you do Jesus, and neither of you can offer any more proof than your strong conviction that it works. If a person buys a lotto ticket as often as you pray, and an equal amount of time lapses before a ticket wins or a 'miracle' enters your life, both of you will likely have the same reaction in claiming that you 'knew' that your patience would eventually pay off, where I would say that the odds are in favor of something positive happening in everyone's lives every so often and that neither luck nor divine intervention are necessary to understand this. Tell someone who has been 'saved' that something good will happen to them and they will see the next good thing that happens to them as that sign because they want to to be and are expecting it to happen. It's called a self-fullilling prophecy, right? You could get pretty much the exact same result from reading a self-help book that instructs you to have a more positive outlook on life. In short, it's all psychological.

      February 8, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      "My duty is to share my faith."
      Hey, I get it! Giving your personal testimonial to the wonderful, soul-scrubbing properties of the Holy Spirit is what you do in exchange for maintaining your own personal supply of that product. In the great marketplace of 'ideas to govern your life by' you are serving as an agent for this product and we are all free to either 'buy in' or not. Of course, let's not forget that part of your pitch for the Holy Spirit is a dire warning of the consequences of not signing up, and you make no bones about wanting your product to gain the exclusive monopoly in this field, right?

      Let's see if you get my position though. I choose not to buy in because I think that your 'advertising' is misleading, and that your 'product' actually comes at too high a price. There is no evidence that your secret ingredient, the Holy Spirit, actually exists. Everything that you claim that it does can easily be explained by the placebo effect, which effectively renders your product as a self-help program with claims of a magic ingredient.

      Don't get me wrong. I know that lots of people really do need a major reworking of their lives, but not everyone does. That's why I object to the claim that happiness and meaning in life are impossible without a personal relationship with Christ. It is extremely judgmental and elitist of folks like you to demean how everyone else lives. That's partly the reason why I say that other self-help programs, the ones that are just as effective, are also actually 'cheaper' from an intellectual perspective in that they do not require the acceptance of bizarre, elitist and illogical beliefs, like rejecting the validity of gayness based on the fear of angering some imagined god, for example.

      So, I think of your role as the guy who gives a positive review of the Holy Spirit package deal, which you give not only because you believe in the product, but also because you hold 'stock' in the company as well, in a manner of speaking, while I feel that the 'consumer' out there deserves to hear more than just your commercials for the Holy Spirit before buying in. That's all.

      February 8, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • Steve the real one

      NL,

      My friend, I am selling nothing yet if it better makes sense to you to describe it in those terms, cool, I have no issues with that. I cannot do the Holy Spirit's work. He enlightens, and convicts, not me! My job is to share! That is all I am doing! Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, nor will I force Jesus on you or anyone else. I told you why I believe! You don't have to accept it and you can challenge it all day long. I appreciate your questions! Yet I am cemented in my faith! I understand sceptics will have a hard time with it. I don't!

      February 8, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      Sorry buddy, but my response to you was posted way up under the evry first post. Wonky site, eh?

      February 8, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
    • NL

      Justina-
      "Christians love unconditionally and rescue. Atheists mock, kill and destroy. Proof."
      Yes, what proof do you have of this?
      Paul mocks atheists in arguing that logic and reason are foolishness, yes? And there are limits to how far some Christians love gays. Not enough to treat them as equals, right?

      February 9, 2011 at 8:29 am |
  10. T3chsupport

    People in those churches should be celebrating. They're losing more and more people, and it's mostly due to them going away from the messages of their own god, and forgetting what's actually in the bible. They preach hate, people will hate them.

    Gay people aren't going away. Ever. Either allow for your religion to evolve sometimes, (y'know, kinda like you can get a haircut now or eat shell fish and not be smited for it anymore), or prepare for it to slowly die off.

    February 7, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • CW

      @ T3chsupport,

      All the things you point out are from the OLD TESTIMENT. Its true that in the old testiment that God noted that being G-'ay is an abomination BUT...see verses in Romans and Corinthians that also state nothing about the shelfish, haircuts and such...BUT DO say that the G-'AY lifestyle is wrong....PERIOD.

      Your right that the bible does preach Love and not judge...but let me ask....should it be acceptable for a mu-'rder-'er to go to church and keep on mur-'der-'ing?....that is the same thing your saying that Christian's should "evolve" as you say and allow. Remember the Bible says to to stop sinning....Period.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:06 am |
    • nonesuch

      CW, you can't SPELL "testament", you simpleton. Why should anyone believe that you understand the Bible?

      February 7, 2011 at 11:41 am |
  11. frink

    I guess if they want a support group that is fine but why religion? Why worship a fictional biblical god?

    February 7, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Jaci

      Some of us have faith in a power greater than us. If you disagree, that's fine, but please show some respect for those of us who believe in God and our relationships with Him.

      That being said, I believe that God is a loving God that accepts everyone unconditionally. People simply are who they are, and some are gay, some are straight, some are transgendered. So what? People in general need to be respected and accepted for who they are, as long as they're not harming other people or violating any civic laws.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:43 am |
  12. Anglican

    Faith, Hope, and Love. Peace.

    February 7, 2011 at 10:24 am |
  13. Dan / GA

    Great Sorry!
    Gay Couple here in GA, who has adopted 7 kids from the Foster Care System here in GA. All Brother's and Sister's from the same parents. Yes, we are out here and yes we do want to raise them in a loving church, just like most of us were raised in the church. We love our kids and we love our church and we wish the church would stop judging and teach love and not hate!

    February 7, 2011 at 10:23 am |
    • Dan / GA

      Yes I misspelled story. Sorry about that.

      February 7, 2011 at 10:25 am |
    • Anglican

      Dan. Many blessings to you. Many blessings. Peace

      February 7, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Dan / GA

      I think you are great! Cheers to you!

      February 7, 2011 at 10:36 am |
    • Nonimus

      @CW,
      How small minded of you to miss the fact that 7 children now have what sounds like a loving and supportive home. Surely, God would see that as a good thing.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • CW

      @ Nonimus

      Small minded ehh? Let me ask...what if a mur-'der-'er who just got out of prison was able to adopt seven kids....BUT DIDN'T STOP MUR-'DER-'ING....would that be okay?....before you say....anything....let me BUT BUT BUT....This mur-'der-'er is a loving person to these kids and provides for them......that is the same logic your using.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • in60657

      @CW if you are a woman you must have or had a very inconvenient life or if you are married of have daughters you would have to spend time away from them once a month since you are so endeared to the Old Testament.

      Leviticus 15:19-30
      And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.

      Leviticus 20:18
      And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

      Ezekiel 18:5-6
      But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, and hath not ... come near to a menstruous woman.....

      So CW are you picking and choosing what you like to believe out of the bible? Do you like shrimp?

      Leviticus 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

      February 7, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • David Johnson

      @CW
      @Justina

      Your god is immoral.

      God directly or at His insistence, murdered men, women and children including babies. Is this good? Is this moral?

      God had a man believe he was going to sacrifice his son to Him. Do you know how traumatic that would be for a father and his son?
      If you had the power would you do this? Would you be so insecure? Is this good? Is this moral?

      There was a man who loved God. God made a bet with Satan that even if the man were tortured, his Possessions taken, and his children killed, he would still love God and never curse Him. God won the bet.
      Would you do that? Would you kill a man's children for a bet? Is this good? Is this moral?

      God sent a bear to kill a group of children, because they had teased one of His prophets.
      Did the children deserve to die, because they teased a bald man? Is this good? Is this moral?

      God allowed a man to sacrifice his daughter to Him, for giving the man a victory in battle.
      Is this good? Is this moral?

      God created a place He can send people to be burned for all eternity. Could an all good god do this?

      If a puppy wet on the floor, would you hold it over a burner? Even for a second?

      Jesus had this to say:

      Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
      Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

      A good god can't do evil things!

      So, god could be evil or he could not exist and all the events we see, are just coincidence and random chance.

      Cheers!

      February 7, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Anglican

      CW. Salvation through grace by faith. I do not sense much grace in your language. Do not forget, Christ "hung out" with sinners, not those who spew rhetoric. If Christ walked by Dan's house, He would bless Dan and be glad in Dan's acts of love toward those he (Dan) loves and the selfless act of love and kindness to these children. Good gosh, He is raising them in the Church, not in the streets. Get the tree out of your eye, then you may remove a speck from your brothers. Peace

      February 7, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • browardcountyboy

      @CW - do you follow the lessons of this quote from Scripture?
      If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing. For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. (Corinthians 13:1-10)

      February 7, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Nonimus

      @CW,
      "Small minded ehh? Let me ask...what if a mur-'der-'er who just got out of prison was able to adopt seven kids....BUT DIDN'T STOP MUR-'DER-'ING....would that be okay?....before you say....anything....let me BUT BUT BUT....This mur-'der-'er is a loving person to these kids and provides for them......that is the same logic your using."

      Small minded, yes, absolutely!
      Even more so since you are equating a living arrangement agreed upon by consenting adults with a criminal continuing to take peoples' lives.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • Patrick

      @ CW:
      Your analogy is fallacious. You could have used it to compare against a straight Christian couple or a gay couple to the same effect. Do you want to try again, or maybe give us some hints at what you were attempting?

      I think the issue may come from you having an opinion that being gay is immoral. If so, your attempts to analogize will generally fail as they are based on an opinion that is not widely held.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:33 pm |
  14. David Johnson

    @NL

    As usual, great point!

    February 7, 2011 at 10:19 am |
    • NL

      Thanks.
      Even as an atheist I can still appreciate the more inclusive forms of different faiths. My practical side understands that we will continue to have religion for some time yet into the future, but that the forms of religion that cause the most harm are the more rigid, dogmatic, non-thinking, non-inclusive ones. In the here and now, opposing these oppressive forms of religion serves society best, wouldn't you agree?

      February 7, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • David Johnson

      @NL

      You said: "In the here and now, opposing these oppressive forms of religion serves society best, wouldn't you agree?"

      Totally agree. It is the reason that I comment on these blogs.

      Cheers!

      February 7, 2011 at 10:42 am |
    • NL

      David-
      The irony is that many of we atheists are actually fighting a fight against religious fundamentalism that moderate believers really ought to be fighting for themselves. I realize that many of them simply don't care about the fundamentalist influence on their faiths, but for those who do care I'm not sure of what to make of their silence. Perhaps they are all hoping that we cancel each other out?

      February 7, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • D-Bo

      You guys are hilarious! Abrahamic religions have been around for over 3,500 years but a couple of knuckleheads like you are going to "help" get rid of it by posting comments on a CNN belief blog site. Ah hahahahaha! You all have had some pretty ridiculous comments/ideas in the past but what you guys just said is bar-none, the dumbest comment I've heard to date. Talk about pride. haha. I think Satan just gave up his seat to make room for you clowns. By all means, please...continue getting rid of religion in the world. lol. (PS: Did you read the recent CNN article that said Islam is the fastest growing religion? If your 1 or maybe 2 kids are atheist, some Muslim family just had 3,4, or 5 kids who are now all Muslim). So again, good luck with that.

      February 7, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • NL

      D-Bo-
      LOL 🙂
      Hey, I'm imagining you doing a Rocky Balboa impression of "Hey, you're not so tough!"

      Priceless, man, simply priceless!

      February 8, 2011 at 12:12 am |
    • Magic

      D-Bo,

      And Mohammad was an illiterate camel driver, living in a clay hut in the desert - and look where his words went.

      I'm pulling for the sensible, intelligent folks like we have here to make much more of an impact.

      February 8, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
  15. NL

    Part of Christianity's success is that it is such an adaptive product. Think of how many different denominations and cultural expressions of Christianity there are. How willing the faith has been to incorporate local beliefs, festivals and even mythical figures into itself, and how it has meaningful forms for the very poor and the very rich alike. Just think of all that Jesus said against the wealthy and here we are with prosperity gospel finding acceptance. Surely, if Christianity can include the wealthy who are proud of their riches like this then why can't it include the openly gay?

    February 7, 2011 at 10:15 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Great post!

      February 7, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Steve the real one

      NL, the g-a-y lifestyle will not be accepted by true belivers is because it is against the Word of God!. God (whom I believe and you don't) makes the rules. I wil say that the church has been so focused on the g-a-y lifestyle yet pre-maritial straight s-ex as well as straight extra martial s-ex is just as much a sin as lying and g-a-y s-ex! Human beings rank order sins! While God does not! Again God loves the sinner (as we all are) yet hates the sin! It is our actions that gets us in trouble with God!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • nonesuch

      And you care, why, exactly? You and CW don't seem to really care about the people you're addressing as committing what you believe is a "sin". You don't love them, do you? You don't really have any compassion for them, do you? If you do, it certainly isn't apparent in your writing. Both of you seem far more intent on boasting about your own "correct" interpretation of God's will than you do in following his commandments to love others.

      I think you hate people who don't believe as you do. That's what you really care about. You like showing it off, too.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Dan

      "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner"? That's not biblical in any way. If you claim to be a Christian and yet willfully sin, you have become an enemy of God. (Read Hebrews Ch 10). There is no such thing as a gay Christian. You can only be one or the other – not both.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      nonesuch
      And you care, why, exactly? You and CW don't seem to really care about the people you're addressing as committing what you believe is a "sin". You don't love them, do you? You don't really have any compassion for them, do you? If you do, it certainly isn't apparent in your writing. Both of you seem far more intent on boasting about your own "correct" interpretation of God's will than you do in following his commandments to love others. I think you hate people who don't believe as you do. That's what you really care about. You like showing it off, too.
      -------–
      @20 questions? My turn!
      1. Why do YOU care what I care?
      2. Do you know what is in my heart? Do you know who and what I care about?
      3. You are make so many as-sumption here that are are no more as-sumptions left for anybody else
      4. I have nothing to boast about, I am only saved by the grace of God!
      5. You don't believe the Bible, YOUR choice and YOUR consequences!
      6. I hate NO one!
      7. And you call Christans Judgemental?
      8. If you "think" I hate anyone , then you are NOT "thinking"!
      9. Loving folk means warning them as well! THAT is exactly what Jesus did!
      10. Your diagnosis of me is 100% wrong!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sez who? You? The day you're proclaimed God, I'll listen to you.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      @Dan
      "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner"? That's not biblical in any way
      -----–
      It most definitely is biblical. John 3:16 to start! However I agree that is calling folks out of their sin. Their response is their choice! But He does love the sinner!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
      Sez who? You? The day you're proclaimed God, I'll listen to you
      ---------
      I will never nor desire to ever be proclaimed God. Just remember your eternal destination is based upon YOUR choice!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • nonesuch

      It's pretty obvious from your posts and those of CW that you hate those who don't think as you do. You may not feel that way, but you certainly write as if you do.

      February 7, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      nonesuch
      It's pretty obvious from your posts and those of CW that you hate those who don't think as you do. You may not feel that way, but you certainly write as if you do.
      ----------
      Well I appreciate that you now sound like you doubt I hate anyone! Again, I hate NO ONE! Not you, not anyone!

      February 7, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • dorcas

      Great post, NL. To the "true believers"–uh, didn't your god also tell you slavery was a good idea? Why would you listen to such a JERK?? And aren't there "true believers" who think you're wrong? What, are they "false believers"? How do you know? Because they don't believe what you believe? Good luck convincing them.

      February 7, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      The church's fixation on gayness is likely due to personal bigotry, right? Some straight people simply cannot imagine an attraction to the same gender so it repulses them, but doesn't this fly in the face of the idea that the gay lifestyle is a sin of excess just like gambling, drugs, cheating and any of the sins that plague straight people? I mean, if you are right handed you don't have compulsions to sign your name using your left, do you? You use your right because that's what feels natural to you, just as the lefties aren't choosing to be different, or are under the devil's influence as Christians once believed based upon scripture. So, if you have zero attraction to people of your gender then why would you even suspect that people who do are choosing to?

      February 7, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • Steve the real one

      NL,

      Let me surprise you with my answer. I would say YES. With the strong caveat that my yes DOES NOT apply to everyone! If fact I would go as far to say the bigots as you call them are a small minority. What non-believers have great difficulty with is they as-sume because Christians oppose what God does, it is hate! Is there any hate? I'd be a fool to say no. Is it all of us? No! Is it the majority? No!

      February 7, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • Matt

      NL, I really appreciate your posts; your patience and your ability to break it down and "use small words" lol. I agree with you. Until Christians put this much effort into deterring and marginalizing the the rapists, drug addicts, adulterers and prosperity preachers, I will not waste 5 seconds of the short and precious time I have to live making gay people's lives miserable. Start with the Eddie Long's and their mega churches, bentley's and iPads and you might get some air time.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      "What non-believers have great difficulty with is they as-sume because Christians oppose what God does, it is hate!"
      Same goes for atheists accused of hate just for opposing what you believe in, right?

      So, for those who see no other reason for opposing gays than what they read in the bible, is it safe to say that they choose the bible over what would otherwise be obviously right? That you'd have no problem whatsoever with gays except that the bible says it's wrong, and that you believe that if you oppose what you think the bible says, it will anger God. Is that not the actual thinking here?

      Looking to history, wouldn't you think that it's just as likely that a majority of Christian Germans (as opposed to the Jewish Germans) either did hate the Jews, or were just too frightened for their own well-being to oppose the Nazis? History tends to view those who overcame their fears and acted against the Nazi policy far more kindly than those who went along with it, right? Might we not expect history to view Christians who opposed the oppressive view against gays the same way, as putting aside their own self-interest for what is right?

      February 7, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • NL

      Matt-
      Thank you. 🙂

      Let's never forget that we are fighting against centuries-old att.itudes and that patience is required to guide these folks out of their ways. Getting them to listen is only the first step, but name-calling only works against that. When frustration starts to rise, as it inevitably will, just step back for a while and not let them drag you into a situation where they can say "Look at the angry people. Look at how they hate us, and think themselves superior!" That, my friend, is how the justify turning a deaf ear to what we say. Stay strong! We shall overcome!

      Gotta jet, so TTFN!

      February 7, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • Steve (the real one)

      @NL,
      1. Same goes for atheists accused of hate just for opposing what you believe in, right?
      ---------
      Yep! "Christian" hate is no different for anybody else's hate! Hate is hate no matter the source! No disagreement there!

      2. So, for those who see no other reason for opposing gays than what they read in the bible, is it safe to say that they choose the bible over what would otherwise be obviously right? That you'd have no problem whatsoever with gays except that the bible says it's wrong, and that you believe that if you oppose what you think the bible says, it will anger God. Is that not the actual thinking here?
      ------
      2. My thinking NL, is either God is true or He is not! Either I will follow His words or I will not. No fence sitting here! What everyone needs to know is this No one is going to burst into bedrooms to see what people. This issue is this no longer a bedroom issue. It is now on main street! Believers have a responsibility to speak! Not in hate, not condemning but with the truth. Has the church always done that, sadly no! We have to speak the truth in love!

      3. Looking to history, wouldn't you think that it's just as likely that a majority of Christian Germans (as opposed to the Jewish Germans) either did hate the Jews, or were just too frightened for their own well-being to oppose the Nazis? History tends to view those who overcame their fears and acted against the Nazi policy far more kindly than those who went along with it, right? Might we not expect history to view Christians who opposed the oppressive view against gays the same way, as putting aside their own self-interest for what is right?
      --------
      3. The failure for German Christians to act is a lesson for us all. I cannot/will not condemn them for their fears. Just wonder if they acted what would be the outcome? Actually some did act, Oskar Schindler (Schindler's list) for one! I said before we single out one aspect of sin. Few challenge "shacking up" as hard as we challenge the Ho-mo-se-xual life style. Sin is sin!

      Truthfully you make some excellent points! Just as truthfully, I still have to trust in God! If I oppose God, my faith is a lie! Let God be true and all men a liar! We can oppose yet not hate, challenge but not belittle!

      February 7, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • NL

      Steve (the real one)-
      "My thinking NL, is either God is true or He is not! Either I will follow His words or I will not. No fence sitting here!"
      Ah, but if you were to look at my other example of slavery there actually are more verses in the bible which support it than verses that can be read to condemn it. The southerners knew that going into the Civil War which is why they were completely convinced that God was on their side.

      Slavery was overturned, and American Christian history now claims it as their own victory. All I'm saying is that if the slavery issue taught us anything it's that the faith can change, and what once was seen as God's position on something can change drastically in a relatively short time. Twenty years from now churches that exclude practicing gays might be the minority, and one hundred years from now Christians in America may only be reading in history books about how gays were once labelled sinners because the entire paradigm may have changed by then, right?

      "The failure for German Christians to act is a lesson for us all."
      It really should be. I'm thinking of the moderate Christians who really don't share the fundamentalist rigidity, and who are usually far more tolerant. They will likely reap heavily from their failure to stand against fundamentalism.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:53 pm |
  16. live in alabama but not from here

    Do you know the biggest difference between a baptist and a methodist? Methodest can read.

    February 7, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • Steve the real one

      Maybe, but can they spell? I am on occasion a bad speller that is why I don't call people out on that with the soul exception of you! I am not even a Baptist!

      February 7, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Steve the real one

      See what I mean? I wrote "soul" , when it should have been "sole"! Bad speller!

      February 7, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
    • iminim

      And at least one Methodist has never really read about Baptists. Baptists are a hugely diverse group with one denomination- defining ideology called "the priesthood of the believer". This is the idea that each individual can read and interpret the scriptures through his/her personal relationship with God & Christ. Although there are some highly publicized Baptist organizations (the Southern Baptist Convention, for example), these were created mainly as a way to pool churches resources for mission work. The SBC and other such organizations do not have the authority to govern or regulate individual churches theology. Comments made by such organizations are only the majority opinions of those present during the meetings where those topics were addressed. Baptists range from the ultraconservative to the liberal, all of whom can rightfully call themselves Baptists.
      Please feel free to read more about Baptists and other denominations. You may learn that we are all on the same side here.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
  17. JohnQuest

    CatholicMom, I'm sure someone said the same thing right after Martin Luther pin his notice on the door. Protestantism was the biggest split in Christianity, but we still have Christianity. People will keep reading whatever they want to in the good books, as our morals and values "evolve" so do our need for for a God to "evolve". Good thing for you, if not Christianity would have died out 1500 years ago.

    February 7, 2011 at 9:53 am |
    • CatholicMom

      JohnQuest,

      Are you saying it is a good thing that Christianity ‘evolves’ otherwise it would have died out 1500 years ago? The Catholic Church does not ‘evolve’ but becomes the fullness that Jesus Christ promised………John 16:13…John 14:26…

      …… the Paraclete was sent by Jesus Christ to be with His Church, the House of God, to protect Her, and guide Her and bring Her into remembrance of all that He told the Apostles and bring Her into the fullness of Truth as we can bear it.

      The Catholic Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic and is the pillar and foundation of Truth. She is the only Church with the fullness of Truth. Man, by his splitting off, had to leave much behind in order to proceed ahead with his pride as his guide….and the more he splits, the more he leaves behind.

      February 7, 2011 at 10:28 am |
  18. CatholicMom

    The video shows how there will be more splitting of ‘Christian’ communities as times goes on. It is man’s way of taking the Bible and interpreting it in a way that suits his own thinking. For 2000 years heresies occurred that died out over time….now these splits will eventually die out as they become so small and people decide they don’t need a faith family community…and say they just need themselves and their Bibles…saying they are ‘spiritual’….and that is good enough for them. It is happening already.
    Many are saying ‘down’ with religion and they aren’t the atheists….yet….

    February 7, 2011 at 9:02 am |
    • Reality

      CatholicMom,

      It is not "down with religion" but it is the reality of religion that is evolving. One more time:

      Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will quickly converge these religions into some simple rules of life (e.g. Do No Harm). No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired. Ditto for houses and classes of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

      February 7, 2011 at 9:22 am |
    • NL

      CatholicMom-
      These 'heresies' usually didn't die out without a lot of help by the Church. Like the kind of 'help' that this church has gotten in the form of firebombs, right?

      February 7, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • CatholicMom

      NL,
      There were many councils held throughout Church history, and the 19th was held at the time of Martin Luther.

      This: Council of Trent, Encyclopedia of the Catholic Church…can be googled and read by anyone who wishes to know about it.

      Councils were used throughout history to proclaim divine Truth in opposition to false doctrines and to reform the Church where needed.

      February 7, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • browardcountyboy

      CatholicMom, the story of Christianity (including the Catholic Church) over the past 2000+ years has been a story of change and evolution. Otherwise, the Roman Catholic Church would have sprung up right up from the start with its detailed catalogue of religious prescriptions.

      The story of Christianity has been one of continous editing of beliefs. For example, the Roman Church only adopted a policy of priesthood celibacy around the 13th century, beforehand Catholic priests were frequently married men with children. Time and time again, movements within Christianity arise that loudly proclaim that they are the true Christian Church, and everybody else then is proclained "in error."

      February 7, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Reality

      OK, CatholicMom we "googled". Some of the results

      "325 Ecu-menical council at Nicaea. The Christian Church separates Easter from Passover: "We desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews... How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."

      1215 The Fourth Lateran Council headed by Pope Innocent III declares: "Jews and Saracens of both se-xes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress." (Canon 68)

      "Prior to Vatican Council II in the 1960s, antisemitism was fairly rampant within the Catholic Church throughout Europe.[ This was especially true during the Holocaust during World War II. In Slovakia, for example, Archbishop Karol Kmetko responded to a Jewish plea of assistance in March 1942 with the words, "You shall not merely be deported. You shall be killed..And this will be your punishment for your killing of our saviour."[17]

      February 7, 2011 at 12:20 pm |
    • Patrick

      Not all of the heresies died out over time. Here are a few that live today:

      1. Christianity: this heresy started when someone had the audacity to claim some guy over here is the Son of God. Split occurred, two faiths result: the root Jewish faith and the new Christianity
      2. Islam: this heresy started when someone claimed to be a prophet who was not totally accepted all around. Split occurred, two faiths result: Christianity and Islam
      3. Protestantism: Martin Luther nails a memo to someone's door and BOOM! Split occurred: Catholicism and Protestantism.

      February 7, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Reality,

      I would hope that I do not have to go behind you on all your copy and pastes and show how you try to undermine the Catholic Church in such conniving ways….taking Constantine’s words and implying they are the Church’s stance; google for in depth information:

      The First Council of Nicaea Encyclopedia of the Catholic Church

      Also,

      Pope Innocent III encyclopedia of the Catholic Church

      Also,

      canon law Encyclopedia of the Catholic Church

      I am quite surprised at some of your ‘sources’….mere opinions of individuals…twisted to further the cause of perpetuating hatred between peoples.

      February 7, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      browardcountyboy,

      The story of Christianity IS the story of the Catholic Church! There have been many councils over those 2000 years during which time heresies, decrees and judgments were addressed. Church doctrine, discipline, and dogma are not fully understood by all. A good place to start would be [google]:

      Dogma Encyclopedia of the Catholic Church

      February 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • Reality

      CatholicMom,

      Obviously, you are trapped not only in the bible box but also the boxes of the Catholic Encyclopedia (1914 edition) and the RCC catechism. My references were from outside this box and were too many to list. To escape your entrapment, simply Google, Bing or Yahoo "history anti-semitism".

      One wonders how you can remain a Catholic knowing its sordid history.

      February 8, 2011 at 8:28 am |
    • CatholicMom

      Reality,
      If you want to find out about an RV do you go to a sportscar dealer?

      February 8, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • Reality

      CatholicMom,

      You go to non-biased new car reviews such as Consumer Reports and Edmunds not some outdated, biased encyclopedia.

      February 8, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Reality,
      If you don’t like the original Catholic Encyclopedia’s format you can use the New Catholic Encyclopedia with supplements following the original encyclopedia in 1922 and 1958, and fully produced in its entirety in 1967 with supplemental volumes appearing in 1974, 1979, 1989, and 1996.
      Thank you for pointing out which one I was using.

      February 8, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
  19. David Johnson

    If the Christian god does not want to go the way of Zeus and Ra, He better change His evil ways.

    Society is evolving. Bronze Age stupidity just won't cut it. I am glad I'm alive to see it!

    Cheers!

    February 7, 2011 at 8:34 am |
    • Matt

      HAHA LMAO Dude, that was truly classy. Respect. Ra...lol

      February 7, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • Adam and Steve

      Bronze Age stupidity is not learning from Sodom and Gomorrah.

      February 7, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Adam and Steve

      You said: "Bronze Age stupidity is not learning from Sodom and Gomorrah."

      Bronze Age stupidity is believing fairy tales you read in the bible.

      Modern Age stupidity is believing in the Bronze Age desert war god.

      Cheers!

      February 8, 2011 at 7:58 pm |
  20. warren smith

    wrong wrong wrong

    February 7, 2011 at 8:19 am |
    • Bob

      yes, you are wrong... three times

      February 7, 2011 at 9:11 am |
    • Religions are a scam

      Warren, are you referring to beating off? Where are you on that? 🙂

      February 7, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Religions are a scam

      Love is love. Either you have it or you don't.

      Religion is for the subjugation of self AND others.

      February 7, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • zeroza

      They all have the same respect and love, gays, straight, whatevers, they'r all loved the same way, but law is the law, a man that sleeps with another man is in sin and will not live in hevens among those that will live forever some know it, some not but the day is comming, and all will be judged."-God is Great"

      February 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • Julie

      Why does the bible say that some Eunuchs were born that way and if Eunuchs were castrated then why was Potiphar a Eunuch and married?

      Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      February 7, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • NL

      Steve the real one-
      Hey, we're all skeptics about some thing, or another. You posted that you don't read your horoscope so I would take that to mean that you are skeptical of astrology. Me too, for many of the same reasons I am also skeptical of your beliefs, or any claim that requires blind trust in lieu of hard evidence for that matter. If your believing in a god were just some quirky little thing that you keep to yourself then it wouldn't be any of my business and I really wouldn't bother you over it, but it isn't, is it? You, and people like you, use these beliefs to base your decision making on issues that affect others, and that's where the validity of these beliefs becomes a public concern.

      Let's use an analogy, shall we? There is a superst.ition that black cats are not only bad luck, but also linked to witches, right? Many people just consider this utter nonsense, but others actually do believe it to some degree. Now, imagine that there is a growing group of people who hold to this to superst.ition so strongly that not only will they not own a black cat personally, but they actually want to forbid anyone else from owning one as well. Furthermore, they want to actually cull every black cat in the nation, just in case. Believe it or not, that's the kind of situation many of us feel we are all in concerning some of you Christians. You don't want to leave things to personal choice, but you want to dictate morality for everyone, all based on a set of beliefs that is indistinguishable from a superst.ition centered around an irrational fear.

      February 8, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Magic

      NL,

      Great post. I hope that steve sees it.

      I hate to admit that I am having a difficult time following up on posts under this new paging system... especially when they become so numerous. Do you have any tips?

      February 8, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • NL

      Magic-
      Thanks buddy!
      Yes, it would be nice if the new paging system actually made things easier, but so far I see little evidence of that either. It would be nice to have faith that it will, but verily, I say unto you that CNN moves in mysterious ways. 😉

      February 8, 2011 at 3:36 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.