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150,000 people pressure Apple to shut down 'Gay Cure' app
March 22nd, 2011
02:13 PM ET

150,000 people pressure Apple to shut down 'Gay Cure' app

More than 150,000 people have signed an online petition calling for Apple to remove an app from the iTunes store that was created by a Christian organization they say is anti-gay.

Exodus International, which according to its website has ministries that "provide support for individuals who want to recover from homosexuality," released the app on February 15.

[UPDATE 11 a.m. ET Wednesday: Apple has pulled the app from its online store.]

The app has a 4+ approval rating from the Apple app store, and the organization is quick to point out that this rating is reserved for those apps that "contain no objectionable material."

Gay rights activists obviously disagree.

"No objectionable content? We beg to differ," reads the Change.org petition that was started by non-profit LBGT advocacy organization Truth Wins Out. "Exodus' message is hateful and bigoted. They claim to offer 'freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ' and use scare tactics, misinformation, stereotypes and distortions of LGBT life to recruit clients."

Read the full story
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Culture wars • Homosexuality • Technology

soundoff (194 Responses)
  1. B

    I am not bashing gay people by no means but please understand. This is just my opinion, but I feel gay people are confused about themselves and they've chose to go down the wrong road. Everybody have made bad decisions in their life because of a lack of information and good judgement but I dont think this type of lifestyle should ever be embraced. I mean does anyone embrace a child molester, alcoholic, serial killer........etc. I'm sure they sing the same song about how they cant help it and this is just who I am. Which is a lie! They just made a bad decision and they're at a point where it's hard for them to mentally break free.

    April 14, 2011 at 10:25 am |
  2. Greg

    Thanks NL / Evolved DNA. Ironically, as a scientist (which has nothing to do with my beliefs), I was talking about stars creating all the heavy matter in the universe just the other day. I just wish people could see all the harm in organized religion, and hopefully, one day they will.

    March 24, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
  3. Greg

    Sorry for the grammatical errors... that was hastily typed out.

    March 24, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
  4. Greg

    Thank you everyone!

    As always a good old internet battle over religion, same-same naughty time, etc., is always entertaining. I think I saw one post that said it, but are there any rational and logic atheists here? I've read the Bible, I did my time praying and searching. The older I got, the more the nagging in my mind telling me it was all just completely ridculous, led me to this point. At first I thought it was insane not to believe in God, but after time I realized the opposite. The believe in the logically obsurd and supernatural was insanity. While I don't rejoice that we will all be going to the "Great Void" one day, at least I am no longer fooling myself, or living my life expecting something after I die. I live for today, for that is all I have.

    March 24, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • NL

      Still, I prefer the "Great Void" to either of the afterlife options where you either get tortured for eternity, or 'blissed out' for eternity, like some perpetual LSD trip, or watching people get tortured, or worshipping God forever. It all seems so... pointless to me.

      March 24, 2011 at 2:58 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      Greg. actually I think the world is far more beautiful place when you look at it from the evolutionary viewpoint. The way we are connected to the universe, and our place in it just fantastic..The fact that the atoms in our bodies are as old as the universe, and those same atoms that are in our bodies currently could have been part of a rock, or house, or Ape, or tree, or dinosaur.... just beautiful. We know the iron in our blood was even forged inside stars eons ago... as was the gold that adorns our religious leaders .. which i find rather amusing..Glad to see you have managed to see reason, and realize that atheists do not have horns on their heads..

      March 24, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
  5. Spencer Sims

    Can you promote tolerance by banning anything you feel is intolerant?

    March 24, 2011 at 11:51 am |
  6. Jay

    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    we have to stop those gays!!!! They like it in the butt!!!!

    EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    March 24, 2011 at 12:33 am |
  7. snooks

    OMG!!!! STFU!!!! You people need to get back to work & stop "stealing" time from your employer (I'm talking to you HS) or go read a book to your kids or call a lonely person you know just to say hi. But for goodness sake, SHUT UP & STOP BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL!!!!

    March 23, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • CW

      Snooks,

      I say the same to you.....God Bless...Hope you are a christian. HS and I are not being judgemental....we are just pointing out how clear the Bible is on certain subjects. This is ONE of the many.

      March 24, 2011 at 8:56 am |
    • Evolved DNA

      CW .. your use of the word "clear" must some new use of the word we were previously unaware of.

      March 24, 2011 at 9:25 am |
    • CW

      @ EvolvedDNA,

      Let me explain further for those that are not don't understand the english language.

      Clear...in the context used in my post....The Bible says that H-o-'m-'os-'e-'xuality is a SIN and wrong...Make since now?

      March 24, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • LJ

      CW No it doesn't it's all in your head. It's not a sin.

      March 24, 2011 at 10:49 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      The Bible is also clear that polygamy is a Godly form of marriage.
      GENESIS 4:19
      "Then Lamech took for himself two wives : the name of one was Adah, and the name of the second was Zillah."
      Deuteronomy 21:15
      "If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:"
      Exodus 21:10
      "If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights."
      King David is called "a man after God's own heart" and he had multiple wives.
      1 Samuel 25:43 states:
      "David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel, and so both of them were his wives."
      2 Samuel 5:13:
      "And David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he had come from Hebron. Also more sons and daughters were born to David."
      2 Samuel 12:8
      "Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel : 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. ' I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more!"
      GENESIS 32:32
      "And he [Jacob] arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok."
      2 CHRONICLES 11:21
      "Now Rehoboam loved Maachah the granddaughter of Absalom more than all his wives and his concubines; for he took eighteen wives and sixty concubines, and begot twenty-eight sons and sixty daughters."

      March 24, 2011 at 11:15 am |
    • CW

      @ Doc,

      Yes...it does say those things in the Bible. Guess what....I will get to ask our Lord "hey all these kings and prohets of your good book...were you okay with them having so many wives?" Until that time I have to go with what it says....which it does say that they did have all these wives. Lets take a look at it another way....during those times....the earth wasn't as populated as it is now so in essence people of that time had to have the many wives that they had...you know to multiply. Anyway...there are people that believe that having as many wives as they want is okay....for me....in the new testament when it speaks of marriage it talks about it in sin-'gular terms...man...woman...so to me during the time when the Gospels were wrote it was mor-'ally accepted that one man and one woman should be married.

      Where are you trying to go with this?...it is still plain as day on the other subject.

      March 24, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      I'm trying to point out that one can quote scripture to prove just about anything.
      I can quickly find just as many reference that say monogamy is the only acceptable form of marriage.
      One can find passages that encourage slavery and some that condemn it.
      There's scripture supporting a young earth and scripture supporting an old universe.
      The Bible is such a gargantuan collection of conflicting values that anyone can prove anything from it.

      March 24, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      CW.. I absolutely understand English..I was born there...and I still claim that the use of the word "Clear" does not relate to biblical texts.. they can be used to read what you want into them.

      March 24, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • CW

      @ Doc,

      Like I said...The bible is very understandable in how it views G-'ay behavior and that lifestyle. Okay....since your made what you call a point...here is your ultimate question. Prove to me using biblical scripture out of the New Testament and Old Testament that H-'o-'m-'os-'e-'xuality is not sinful...Looking for scripture that say's "it okay" for a man to life this way...not some scripture you want to take out of context or your own spin...but scripture that says as an example
      "David married Steve...and they lived happily OR...I'll even accept....David had many manly wives....and....(you get the picture).

      Now...lets see if you can come up with any TRUE biblical scriptures to prove as you say your point.

      March 24, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      GOD HATES LEFT HANDED PEOPLE
      You have a choice not to act on your wicked left-handedness and live a godly life!
      "A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."
      – Ecclesiastes 10:2

      "The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted."
      – Psalm 118 vv15,16

      Those of us who know and follow the true word of Christ will be laughing from up in heaven while you lefties fry forever.
      Better start using that right hand before Judgement day or you'll be sorry!

      March 24, 2011 at 12:32 pm |
    • Spencer

      Oh, I want to play.

      Ruth and Naomi
      "Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me."

      "Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself"

      "the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul"

      "And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt."

      After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with is face to the ground. Then they kissed each other and wept together – but David wept the most.

      "I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women."

      March 24, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • CW

      @ Doc,

      Once again...mixing those apples with oranges again. In addition...once again taking things out of context....oh well.

      Tell you what.....you go ahead and be the "G-'ay pride...G-'ay love champ" and I'll stand on God's word. On that day of Judgement day....we will get to ask what he thought....I'm sure he'll point out that he already showed us...but some of us wouldn't listen.

      March 24, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Spencer
      It is a bit odd that Ruth's pledge to Naomi is often used in Christian marriage vows, eh?
      And the Bible does spend a great deal of time expounding on the love between Johnathan and David, showing them travelling together, getting naked together, kissing each other etc.
      Those that put the 'fun' in 'fundamentalism' will argue tooth and nail that they couldn't possibly have been gay!
      But it's Ok.
      CW still thinks there is no evidence of ho.mose.xual behaviour in the animal kingdom even after having been trounced with facts to the contrary.

      March 24, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • NL

      Doc Vestibule-
      "GOD HATES LEFT HANDED PEOPLE"

      Couldn't have said it better myself! Spot on!

      March 24, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
  8. skiizalot

    @ David Johnson – I am sure you don't intend to revise history and are only ignorant of extra-biblical texts clearly mention Jesus Christ, His resurrection from the dead and the Christians that followed Him. I will not include Josephus as he was seen as biased. However, the Roman Historian Suetonius mentioned the persecution of Christians and their belief of the risen Christ in his biography of Nero. Pliny the Younger's letter to emperor Trajan around AD 111 discussing the Christians and their traditions of meeting. You can believe however you choose, but have the facts at your disposal.

    March 23, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • NL

      skiizalot-
      "the Roman Historian Suetonius mentioned the persecution of Christians and their belief of the risen Christ in his biography of Nero."

      Two thousand years from now, would a historian reading an account of people burning Harry Potter books be right in as.suming that Harry had to have been a real person because only crazy people would get that worked up over a fictional character?

      March 24, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • Magic

      skiizalot,

      "the Roman Historian Suetonius mentioned the persecution of Christians and their belief of the risen Christ in his biography of Nero. Pliny the Younger's letter to emperor Trajan around AD 111 discussing the Christians and their traditions of meeting."

      This only proves that there was a religious sect in the 1st and 2nd centuries who believed those things. It proves nothing about Jesus' actual life or death or anything else.

      March 24, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
  9. Faith

    One question, have any of you personally met Darwin or any other originators of your belief?
    Religion/belief, in any format, is based on faith. The question you and I must ask ourselves is: how much faith does it require for me to believe what I believe?

    March 23, 2011 at 8:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Of course no one has met Darwin. I haven't met George Washington or Abraham Lincoln either. So what?

      March 23, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • Statistical Anomaly

      There is always someone who cannot figure things out no matter how many times it has been explained by patient people.

      And who insists on misunderstanding no matter how many people point out simple dictionary definitions.

      "Faith", you poor poor moron. How many times have you insisted on being stupid? You keep changing your name but your mistakes are always the same "Mike, not me" "Steve" "Jeff" "CW" etc. whoever you are.

      You don't understand the definition of "faith", "belief", "theory", "proof", "evidence", "logic", or dozens of other words.
      Is English a second language for you or something? Because you really suk at using it.

      March 24, 2011 at 7:49 am |
    • NL

      Faith-
      Evolution through natural selection was always there to be discovered. Wallace actually came up with the same idea at the same time, independent of Darwin, but it could have been discovered by someone much earlier than either of them. Picking at Darwin take nothing away from evolution being the truth, just as criticizing Columbus for being an incompetent tyrant does nothing to disprove that the Americas are actually real.

      March 24, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
    • Magic

      Faith

      "One question, have any of you personally met Darwin or any other originators of your belief?"

      You know, it doesn't really matter if Darwin even existed or not. It is the facts which he discovered that matter... facts which can be researched, tested, verified and built upon to find out how things really work.

      The 'facts' attributed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the rest of religion's originators cannot and do not stand up to verification.

      March 24, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
  10. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    CW, you're beyond stupid. What's with the idiotic random apostrophes?

    I have a brain and an education. People like you don't merit anything but scorn.

    March 23, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
  11. TheRationale

    How about just start a Christian cure? That would be so much more helpful.

    March 23, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • Frederica

      @Rationale: Yes, the Christian faith cures everything, especially the willful evil.

      March 24, 2011 at 2:40 am |
    • Spencer

      @Frederica No it doesn't. Let's take the example of that is the West Baptist Church, they claim to be Christians but they are evil. The other example is the constant persecution of gays! There are many more put I don't want to waste my time. What a ridiculous statement.

      March 24, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
  12. Erin

    You loose

    Apple has finally released a statement through spokesperson Tom Neumayr: “We removed the Exodus International app from the App Store because it violates our developer guidelines by being offensive to large groups of people."

    March 23, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • CW

      Some large group....Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!....I'm G-'ay and I don't want others to see the truth.

      Wasn't like 150,000....compared to people who are He-ter-'o and those who are living a life that "dies to self"(those that are h-'o-'m-'o and are trying to live as God would want them to....I'm sure in the billions.

      Doesn't seem like a huge number...oh well...Many people will never accept this as the right way to live...I'm one of them...my belief's agree with the Bible.

      March 23, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • CW

      @ Erin,

      Our world has turned into a bunch of pa-'nsies....One small..SINFUL I might add voices their dislike for something and it gets taken down.

      All the G-'ay pride orgs will face a judgement one day..Its co-'min...We christians will have the last laugh.

      March 23, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • PraiseTheLard

      CW – will you have the last laugh, or will you be totally laughable?

      In DOG we trust.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • Spencer

      No CW – Satan will when he comes for you since bigots don’t go to heaven.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      Erin.. CW will not be smug when Thor greets him.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Pansies"? Nice, CW, very nice. I'm sure Jesus is proud of you.

      If so, I don't want to have anything to do with him-or you.

      March 23, 2011 at 7:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Praise the Lard, I laugh at CW and HS every time I come here on a drive-by. Those two morons are here 24/7 with their sanctimonious posturing. CW can't spell 'cat' without a dictionary (and he doesn't own one and can't remember the alphabet unless he sings the song anyway), and HS is using one arm to polish her halo and the other to pat herself on the back, all the while proclaiming her ability to use her other limbs to minister to the needy, hungry, lonely and sick.

      It's comedy gold. You couldn't make up the cr*p those two write. Nobody would believe Christ is anything like those two harpies.

      March 23, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • Acropolis

      CW-

      I truly believe in Jesus Christ and his resurrection. In fact, you and I probably share many beliefs. However, I feel led to inform you that you are not properly loving people to Christ. You can't mock people like that. Do you think someone you are mocking will see your comments and think "Wow, I want to be a part of that!"?

      "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" and "pa'-nsies" should not be in your witnessing vocabulary, sir or madam.

      And to any non-Christians–yes, there are bigots and hypocrites that claim to know Jesus. Please be aware that these people are not representative of the entire group.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:19 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Acropolis..I am atheist and I fully understand that not all Christians are like some of those we encounter on here at times. In fact, I like the ones i encounter daily and we are all very civil. I enjoy good conversation and although i can get a little sarcastic, I see the funny side of life, and it tends to spill out. Just because i happen not to believe does not make me, or any atheist a "bad" person.. There are some of course, as there would be with any group. On a side note.. have you been to the Acropolis .. or did you just like the name? Its an interesting place.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:47 pm |
    • CW

      @ Acropolis,

      I will agree that I was a bit ha-'rsh in my post. I'm not a bigot nor a hypocrite as you as-'sert. I am a christian that believes that the Bible is the Word of God...Period. I also believe that the Bible is very very very clear on the subject of Hom-'o-s-'e-'xual behavior and how it is a sin for anyone to live this way. I have to say I do love all people even those that continue to sin but I don't have to agree with everything they are saying right? If so there would be no reason to turn from evil or help try to turn our fellow brothers or sisters to Christ. I have offered many times to several of the many worldly posters an olive branch to let them know that they need salvation and the Lord.

      Now...let me ask have you read any of the posts from Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son or from EvolvedDNA? As you can see they take special time to make fun, mock or belittle any and all christians. Finally my point is this....even Jesus in the Bible corrected and confronted the pharisees and sadducees about there beliefs and at times was harsh toward them.

      May God bless you and I do forgive you.

      @ Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,

      Call me what you want....say what you want....I stand on the word of God. By the way...your making me cry...Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha....can't you tell? Open your heart...the one true God of the Bible.

      @ EvolvedDNA....and all others,

      Make fun while you can.....all the "in DOG we trust" and "thor" comments.....They're not funny. I say the same...open your heart to the one true God of the Bible.

      March 24, 2011 at 8:51 am |
  13. big j

    Lol its so hilarious when people try to use the Bible to "disprove" Christ....its never going to work!! The Word is law, and the Lord is the living Word...get wise folks.

    March 23, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • NL

      big j-
      No need to 'disprove' anything. Highlighting the parts of the Bible that believers conveniently avoid does all the work for us. Poll the atheists here and, chances are, most will tell you that reading the entire Bible without restriction is what drove them to disbelief. The Bible speaks for itself.

      March 24, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  14. Reality

    All "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the gay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore gays are gay because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed................

    March 23, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
  15. David Johnson

    Genesis 2 18:20:
    18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him.”
    19 So the Lord God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one.
    20 He gave names to all the livestock, all the birds of the sky, and all the wild animals. But still there was no helper just right for him.

    OMG! If Adam had found a "helper who was just right for him", in a sheep or a chicken, the fundies would be running around claiming god created Adam and Cluck,Cluck!

    Shades of bestiality!

    Cheers!

    March 23, 2011 at 11:11 am |
  16. The truth is hidden

    Doc Vestibule

    @HeavenSent
    It appears that you're saying that because the people who eventually owned and exploited their slaves didn't actually put them on a boat that they're absolved of any wrongdoing?
    That's like saying a heroin junkie bears no responsibility becuase they didn't produce the drug – they just purchased and used it.
    And while I don't know the names of those who helped slaves escape to my country, I can be farily certain that devout Southern Baptists were not among them.
    The Southern Baptist view was that slaves were better off under the loving, tender, compassionate care of Christian slaveowners, and the insti.tution of slavery was to be "a blessing both to master and slave."
    Southern Baptists favored slavery, Jim Crow laws, segregation, and fought against women's suffrage, federal lynching laws, desegregation and civil rights.

    No Doc, wrong is wrong and slavery is a human history event. All races have suffered it. I guess you believe that most of the Africans brought to Europe and the Americas as slaves were stolen or kidnapped? I find it hard to believe that the conservative estimates of 12million Africans that eventually made it out of Africa alive to these destinations were “kidnapped” when conservative estimates report that 2/3rds died in the transit or “the middle passage”! That would equate to 36million being “kidnapped”? That seems like a lot of kidnapping and the a disingenuous assumption that the Africans were incapable of noticing the 5 Europeans, relative to the African population, doing these “kidnappings” or they were unwilling or incapable of raising a defense to stop this atrocity. The Mau Mau Uprising and the Zulu are testaments to the ability of Africans to stop and slow down injustices in Africa! My point is to show how ignorance and deceptions can destroy people and their ability to reason things out.

    March 23, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      Are you implying that the Africans volunteered to be slaves?

      March 23, 2011 at 10:56 am |
    • CW

      @ Doc,

      I think what Truth is doing is slugging through all your wasteful d-'ill-'usions of the Bible....you know...how you try to say that Bible isn't the moral guide on how to live you life.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • The truth is hidden

      My point is Africans sold Africans into slavery and are just as guilty of that enslavement as the European that bought that African. So does that make it any less atrocious?

      March 23, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • Nonimus

      @The Truth is hidden,
      Does it matter who captured the person and originally 'enslaved' them?
      Is owning another person right or wrong according to the Bible?

      March 23, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @TheTruthIsHidden
      Slaves from Africa came from a handful of sources.
      Tribal leaders would trade criminals from their own tribes, or more often enemy captives from neighbouring tribes.
      Most, however, were obtained through kidnapping raids at gunpoint with the assistance of the Europeans (the ones who had guns)
      Those leaders, like King Jaja of Opopo and King Agyeman Prempeh, who refused to deal with the European slavers were violently subjugated and sold into slavery anyways.
      The policy was "sell to the Europeans or be sold to the Europeans".

      March 23, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @TruthIsHidden
      By the way, the mortality rate on teh slave ships was more along the lines of 15%.

      March 23, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • The truth is hidden

      According to the Bible we are all owned by good "God" or evil "Satan". We all have a choice to do good or bad no matter the situation. Much like the German people who stood by and watched their fellow Germans hauled off to the concentration camps. All of them were not evil nor did all of them approve of what was going on in Germany, but it is really sad when good people see evil and do nothing.

      March 23, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
    • NL

      The truth is hidden-
      "My point is Africans sold Africans into slavery and are just as guilty of that enslavement as the European that bought that African. So does that make it any less atrocious?"

      Isn't that like arguing that Christians caught up in the heroin trade really aren't so bad because they imported the stuff from non-Christians?

      And you really do avoid the central question: Does the Bible come out against slavery, or was the abolitionist movement better characterized as a 'liberal' Christian movement, like the civil rights movement that came after it and the Christian churches who accept gays as they are nowadays?

      March 23, 2011 at 12:16 pm |
    • NL

      The truth is hidden-
      Yes, we know the stories about 'good' Germans who hid Jews during the war, but isn't it funny how you never hear any stories of Germans hiding gays, whom Hitler also had executed? Are we to take from this that Christian compassion has it's limits?

      March 23, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • The truth is hidden

      15% under those conditions it is very hard to believe? But let’s say that is true that still is an enormous human number. 400 to a ship elbow to elbow in a space comparable to a coffin over washed with vomit, poop, urine, sweat and blood for an average of 1.5 to 2.5 month voyage. These ships smell was so bad that many cities made it illegal to dock the ships within several miles of the town and only downwind because of the Oder. And the ships had to be burned because the smell was so strong and bad that it could not be removed after they only made a hand full of trips. Realistically, the expense of the human purchased from the Africans couldn’t have been very high when it is looked at from the seller point of view when you consider this was his enemy. I can make a little money or have a need met while getting rid of my troubles. This is a win, win situation to the seller.

      March 23, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
    • The truth is hidden

      Any Christian that is willfully and purposefully involved in such things need to learn more from and about Christ. But, then again, Jesus said you can tell a tree by its fruit? So just because someone calls themselves Christian doesn’t make them Christ like or Christian! As for those Christians that castigate anyone for whatever reason without love for that person with the intent to share the love of God with them and allow God to draw them to Himself is not being Christ like.

      March 23, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • The truth is hidden

      To add to an earlier comment by me about the selling of slaves and 400 per. ship: On the side of the buyer they bore the biggest risk and reward. If they made the transit faster and with more people they could make a fortune. Based upon that 400 avg. and a 66% loss rate this leaves around 136 humans. So if it takes 3 trips to make a fortune it may be worth it for roughly 6months work. Much like the moonshiners of the 1920s and 30s, if they lost the equivalent of $1000 worth of moonshine to the revenue agents, and all they had invested was $50 in sugar and potatoes or corn and a little time when most of these guys were not working regularly anyway due to the great depression? My point is it is not farfetched to lose 2/3rds of a cargo and it still be justified to make the voyage for a captain and his crew when considering the profits.

      March 23, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • NL

      The truth is hidden
      "So just because someone calls themselves Christian doesn’t make them Christ like or Christian!"

      I wholeheartedly agree! There are far too many people calling themselves Christian without an ounce of the sense of compas.sion and justice that Jesus exemplified. False prophets who act more like the slaves to the Law that Jesus criticized in the gospel. They are the Pharisees of our time.

      March 23, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @The Truth is hidden,
      "According to the Bible we are all owned by good 'God' or evil 'Satan'."
      The question was, is it right or wrong for us (humans) to own another human as property? I would also debate the right of God or Satan to own humans as well, but that's another argument.

      March 23, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
    • Normative

      Your name "The truth is hidden" is ironic because you don't seem willing to admit to the truth. You are the one keeping it hidden.

      Why don't you answer the question?
      Jesus healed slaves but did not call for their liberation.
      So "Christlike" could mean promoting slavery.
      "Christians" do nothing to halt slavery in Brazil, a Catholic-dominated country. Surely they justify this somehow?

      March 24, 2011 at 7:26 am |
    • GeneticSwapMeat

      What gets me is the fact of so many "black" people who supposedly abhor slavery yet become Christians or Muslims – the two biggest proponents of slavery in history.

      I think they just secretly love making slaves of others, making slaves of women, making slaves of the poor all in the "name" of their god or religion. And that many descendants of slaves would love to make slaves of those they hate or dislike or think of in denigrating terms. Being racist is not monopolized by "white" people. Far from it.

      It's all about power trips, group identlty, and greed all justified by words written down by incredibly stupid people.

      Here's something you might consider: Try being BETTER than Jesus. It's not hard. Just quit treating people like crap and quit doing things that are against human rights. Unlike your Jesus.
      Quit letting people get away with murder simply because they use a religious justification or hide behind their religion.
      Jesus did not speak out against a great many things that he should have spoken out against.
      You can do better. But will you?

      March 24, 2011 at 7:39 am |
    • LJ

      "So just because someone calls themselves Christian doesn’t make them Christ like or Christian! As for those Christians that castigate anyone for whatever reason without love for that person with the intent to share the love of God with them and allow God to draw them to Himself is not being Christ like."

      It's obvious by many post by so called self-righteous Christians that when the subject of ho-mo-s3x-uality everything goes out the window. So Truthishiden whats your take on the subject?

      March 24, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • NL

      GeneticSwapMeat"
      "What gets me is the fact of so many "black" people who supposedly abhor slavery yet become Christians or Muslims – the two biggest proponents of slavery in history."

      Yes, and what gets me even more is how so many Americans, who supposedly abhor theocratic rule, fully embrace the idea of serving an all-powerful, heavenly 'king.' Shades of erotic dominance and submission, maybe even sadomasochism, eh?

      March 24, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
  17. NL

    "The real death of America will come when everyone is alike."
    James T. Ellison

    March 23, 2011 at 10:00 am |
  18. David Johnson

    Besides thinking gays are an abomination, Why do humans with defects or handicaps creep god out?

    Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever [he be] of thy seed in their generations that hath [any] blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. – Leviticus 21:17

    Do you think that is the reason god never gives an amputee their limb back? God is just too disgusted at imperfection?

    God is a pi$$er, isn't He?

    Cheers!

    March 23, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • NL

      David-
      Naa, I think it's simpler than that. I think it's about breeding stock. Remember that the big thing in Bible times was fathering nations. So, having lots of kids, with your official wives and your concubines, was the primary goal. Healthier kids could work harder on the family farm and had a better chance to produce huge families as well. Thus the eugenics campaign against birth defects in children and the view that such differences were signs punishment for sinful behavior.

      Maybe it's even the source of some of the opposition against gays in the Bible. Being gay doesn't exactly help the baby-making drive much, does it? It also involves body liquids so it isn't exactly kosher. If kosher law tells us anything it's that the ancient Israelites could be unreasonably picky about what they came in contact with and put into their mouths, so it really shouldn't be much of a surprise that they had issues with this as well. Paul was still a devout Jew so he's already inclined towards just following the Law with his speaking out against gays. He might have had even bigger issues with the whole rival cult practice worry that the Hebrews were always fighting against. Even then, Paul is pretty ambiguous about what he is outlawing. Well, in the original Greek anyway. English translations tend to be more 'straightforward' in their condemnation.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • CW

      @ David,

      Love how you quote scripture in "YOUR OWN CONTEXT"...JOHN 20:2...our Lord was NOT G-'AY. He loved all people men, women, children..he ha-'ted all men, women, and children's...SIN!!!

      In addition since your such a blinded soul when it comes to the Bible...instead of pointing out Leviticus....SEE HEBREWS....that explains how the old law was under the old covenant that God had with us....Jesus was a fullfillment of the new covenant.

      By the Way....Our Lord has allowed MAN to advance his...as you point out "science" to a point to where amputee's are indeed able to have their limbs back.

      One day....your going to wish you could take back all these wonderful things you have said...it will be too late then....as you would say...cheers.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      If The New Testament renders the Old Testament obsolete as a guide for life, then I would expect that you would never again use an OT quote to justify anything.
      And yet you'll cite the passages you believe condemn hom.ose.xuality in the OT to suit your agenda.
      Context again, bud.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • CW

      @ Doc,

      Wrong again!!!!!...you get the prize for missing things again.

      First off you say: "And yet you'll cite the passages you believe condemn hom.ose.xuality in the OT to suit your agenda.
      Context again, bud."

      SEE ROMANS CHAPTER 1...SEE 1 CORINTHAINS CHAPTER 6 VERSE 9. Let me point out...THESE ARE ALL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT....they condemn Ho.mo.s-'e-'xuality...as a SIN.

      What cha got next..."O champion of G-'ay pride"

      March 23, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • David Johnson

      @CW

      You said: "By the Way....Our Lord has allowed MAN to advance his...as you point out "science" to a point to where amputee's are indeed able to have their limbs back."

      It is odd, that god has never restored a missing limb. LOL. Maybe, 'cause that miracle couldn't be faked? At Lourdes, there are tons of crutches and wheelchairs. Not one wooden leg.

      Your god is not coming back. It's been 2000 years and counting. Jesus said He would return in the 1st Century.

      Jesus predicted he would return in the 1st century. He didn't, because of a prior engagement – death.
      Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” – Matthew 24:34

      Spin it how you like, Sparky! But it says what it says. It is what it is.

      You believers are such a joke.

      Cheers!

      March 23, 2011 at 11:04 am |
    • CW

      @ David,

      Once again...."my own context".....tell you what when you open your mind do a bit of studying....open your heart...then come talk about the bible.

      let me know how you feel when things like "judgement day" happen....Oh...by the way...you'll get to ask "why did you wait to come back so long God".

      March 23, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • SeanNJ

      @CW: Why does every discussion with you end with your getting frustrated, and answering every legitimate criticism with a "Just wait, you'll see!" comment?

      And then you wonder why we don't take you seriously...

      March 23, 2011 at 11:19 am |
    • CW

      @ SeanNJ,

      Really?...I remember one of your comments to me was "I knew I didn't like you". I don't care if YOU don't take me seriously. I point to the facts that are written in the Bible for the most part. Its up to you as a person to open your heart to the truth that is in the Bible.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • RoundandRound

      It so amusing to see the same arguments go round and round. The problem lies in the translation of very few pieces of pas-sages. Clergy that are embracing gays and lesbians into their churches have come to realize the mistakes that were made by others in the past. They are looking at the original greek words and have come to the conclusion it was condemning cult male-pimps and child-molesters. The problem lies in the fact that gays and lesbians have been misunderstood and persecuted throughout history. People continue to equated being gay with child molestation, ignoring the new scientific research that has been done. It’s been proven that they are not child molesters, nor are they cult-pimps so with in that context being gay is not a sin.

      March 23, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • CW

      @ Roundandround,

      Yes...the Bible also speaks of "wolves in sheep's clothing"....that is what the "clergy men" as you call it are. The translation is very very very clear.

      I guess we could also look at God created right? Translates like this: God created Adam and Eve....Not Adam and Steve.

      Wonder what you so called "clergy men" say bout that one.

      March 23, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
    • Spencer

      CW wake up. Sin is lack of respect for God; it is a lack of love or respect for other people. Whether gay or straight, one may sin against God or others. We are led by God's forgiving love to become more respectful and loving toward God and towards others, even those we don't like.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • ScottK

      @CW – "I point to the facts that are written in the Bible for the most part"

      For the most part they are facts? Or, for the most part they are in the bible? Or, for the most part I point to facts but not always?

      I'm going with "for the most part" they are hearsay, and the only fact you have is that the scriptures you quote are somewhere in some guys translation of the collected works by over 40 authors over a 2500 year period decided upon by a small group of pagan priests who were forced to convert by the Roman Emporer or face execution after said Emporer experienced a vision and won a battle 400 years after Christs supposed death and took it as a sign...

      March 23, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • ScottK

      *emperor

      always flip those around for some reason and don't notice till i read it again 🙂

      March 23, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • The truth is hidden

      David that scripture was to the Jews for the purpose of sanctification. I would go into more detail but I don't believe many hear would understand the Biblical intent. However; to the New Testament believer it is in reference to sin or the blemish of sin. We must be in a constant state of repentance for our sins so that when we approach God in prayer we are cleansed which will show reverence to God. Like when I go out with my wife to a nice place. Because I love her and I have a tremendous respect for her and I really enjoy her company so I take a bath and put on my best cologne, press my cloths, brush my teeth and comb my hair and all of that stuff. Because I have put the time and the effort into make me look and smell good my wife appreciates the effort and holds my hand and loves on me. Out of fear or reverence for my God I repent to cleanse my soul from any sin I may have committed over the time sense I last prayed.

      March 24, 2011 at 1:32 am |
    • Brian

      @ David RE amputee

      God does not 'heal amputees" because prayer is not a wish list request. Understand prayer, then get back with me.

      cnncommentator at hotmail.com

      March 25, 2011 at 9:30 am |
  19. David Johnson

    @Nonimus

    Some believe that Jesus himself, was gay.

    Jesus character is hinted at as being gay in John 20:2.

    2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”

    Cheers!

    March 23, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Nonimus

      That seems a bit ambiguous doesn't it. Although it is odd to single out one 'disciple' in such a way.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:34 am |
    • Jodi

      That passage in no way would suggest anything abot Jesus other than he was taken from a tomb.

      March 23, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Doug

      Oh, now I get it. When I look down the list of comments for this article, I see you several times leaving your very clever tidbits about Christianity. You're trolling the comment section of an article about religion because you have a big Christian chip on your shoulder and there's nothing that you're willing to do about it besides this. The fact that you are calling us believers a joke is just too funny.

      March 23, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • ScottK

      I see what David is refering to, "and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved" which does in fact make a valid point. If God is love, and Jesus is God, and he loved all his disciples in the "biblical" or "brotherly" sense (agape) then making this comment could indeed be refering to some other type of love for a specific disciple, likely either "storge" (natural affection as a parent would have for a child) or "Eros" being a romantic love. The odds of him refering to "philia" (general affection as one would have for the community) are slim. So either he was refering to a disciple Jesus loved like a brother, or a disciple he loved as a lover. It's up to you to pick the understanding you prefer, but it's not 100% either way here.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
  20. Nonimus

    Just out of curiosity, what is the basis for gay acts being a sin? It seems to me that the only condemnations are in the OT and epistles(?). Did Jesus directly condemn ho.mose.xual relationships?

    March 23, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • CW

      @ Nonimus,

      Thanks for the question....See Romans 1 and 1 Corithians 6:9. this will spell it out as a sin. These books are in the New testament by the way.

      March 23, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • David Johnson

      @CW

      Nonimus asked: "Did Jesus directly condemn ho.mose.xual relationships?"

      Your answer should have been, "NO". LOL!

      Actually some believe an actual Jesus never existed. Pure fable. Outside of the Gospels, there were no writings about Jesus, that weren't hearsay or fraud. There are no known eyewitness accounts of Jesus. *sigh*

      You would think god could have done better in the evidence department, huh?

      Cheers!

      March 23, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • Nonimus

      Hmmm... tricky. Romans and Corinthians were supposedly written by Saul/Paul right?

      March 23, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • CW

      @ Nonimus,

      They were....don't know where this is going. I will say this...we as christians have based our faith that God used Man to write the Bible. This is what is accepted.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • Nonimus

      @CW,
      Yeah, not really sure myself. Just asking questions I guess. It does seem a bit tenuous to base a judgement of an entire segment of society, or at least their actions, on one guy's writings when he didn't even meet Jesus, at least not the walking around one.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • The truth is hidden

      CW, on your side I must say that if God wants to get the attention of all mankind by His will He is well able to accomplish that! But because of what the Bible describes in Genesis with Adam He placed mans acceptance of any redemption into the hand of each individual through the sacrifice made by Jesus. Only those that come to this understanding will be able to comprehend the enormity of the situation before us all. Those that don’t understand will continue through life in the bliss of ignorance under the perception that we in their minds are ignorant. That is why it is important for us to be the light of the world and resemble the hope of Glory.

      March 23, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • ScottK

      Ah, I see where CW is going with this. If all scripture is inspired by God, and God is Jesus, then anything written by Paul was inspired or telepathicly said by Jesus...

      March 23, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • ScottK

      @CW – You claim to worship a God of Love and Justice, do you not?

      Why would a just and loving God create 1 man who has no problem resisting same se x relationships since he is not attracted to other men, but then create another man who is very attracted to other men, so much so that he has to hide who he is and at times may even attempt to hurt himself because of the shame of who he was born? This seems neither loving nor just. And who is it that paints them with the shame of being "different"? Oh, Oh! I know this one!! That would be YOU! And all the other unaccepting, bigotted, hateful, intolerant, disgusting religious people who continue the lie's they were told as children.

      March 23, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Frederica

      Nonimus, read Jesus' own words in Matthew 5:18-20, 27-30. It says all. The ho.mo.s-e-x-ual relationship is so unacceptable and abhorrent He refused to even pronounce it.

      March 24, 2011 at 2:18 am |
    • Spencer

      @ Frederica
      Don’t you just love this one from Matthew…..
      10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
      for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
      This shows gays are headed to heaven and the Christians that continue to persecute them are not. Thank God! LOL!

      ______________________________

      20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

      27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

      Ummmm….haven’t you ever heard of a metaphor..... Get real so that means the Clinton should have gorged one of his eyes out. The reason no real Christian would say to do that is because it ridiculous!!!!!!!!! Oh an note this is not talking about gays! Notice the her and his in the sentences. Duh! Just goes to show why so many crazy Christians don't have clue what they are talking about.

      March 24, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.