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My Take: Poll on bin Laden's death reveals a disposable Jesus
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN A few years ago, I was walking through the streets of Indianapolis with a friend. Whenever anyone asked us for money, she would offer a dollar or two. I asked her why she did this. She replied, “Because Jesus said so.” I didn’t believe her. “Where in the Bible does it say that?” I asked, and she responded with chapter and verse, Matthew 5:42: "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you." (Luke 6:30, I should add, says basically the same thing.) This passage is one of the so-called “hard sayings” of Jesus. It comes in a barrage of equally hard sayings toward the end of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus tells his followers to turn the other cheek, give away your coat if someone sues you for your shirt, and “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 5:44-45). The chatter around a poll released Wednesday by the Public Religion Research Institute and the Religion News Service will likely focus on the findings highlighted in their news release: 82% of Americans surveyed believe that bin Laden distorted the teachings of Islam to suit his own purposes; 65% believe the al Qaeda leader is rotting in hell; and 62% think it is wrong to celebrate the death of another human being. Survey: Most Americans say it's wrong to celebrate bin Laden's death What amazes me, however, is how disposable Christianity and the Bible are in this conversation. America, it seems, has become a nation of Christians of convenience, who trot Jesus out when he suits their politics and prejudices only to hide him away when he does not. Americans are apparently split down the middle on whether the golden rule is an eternal moral law or a disposable human guideline. While we may pay lip service to the rule (which can be found in most of the world's religions), roughly half of us apparently think it doesn’t apply when it comes to torture. Only 53% of those surveyed say the United States should follow the golden rule and not use any methods on our enemies that we would not want used on our soldiers. Oddly, support for the golden rule in this case was actually lower (47%) among white evangelicals. In other words, when Jesus said, “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 7:12), he didn’t really mean "everything." He thought there should be an exception in the case of waterboarding your enemies. One thing that struck me hard while researching my 2003 "American Jesus" book was how malleable Jesus is in the American imagination. Instead of lording over American life, telling us what to do, he seems to be taking orders from us, carrying our water. Or, as I put it back then, "The American Jesus is more a pawn than a king, pushed around in a complex game of cultural (and countercultural) chess, sacrificed here for this cause and there for another.” The latest altar on which we are sacrificing Jesus is the so-called war on terror. So here is my question for American Christians who claim the United States is a Christian nation. How Christian can a country be if even Bible believers cannot get behind something as basic to the Bible as the golden rule? Is Jesus really the lord of your life if his “hard teachings” can be so blithely ignored? The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Dan Gilgoff and Eric Marrapodi, with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team and frequent posts from religion scholar and author Stephen Prothero.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.
You are not going to get straight answers from any of these evangelical people, they're all wearing blinders and unaware of reality in the world. Good luck!
I wonder: when will Mr. Prothero write on the hypocrisies of Islam? Piling on Christians is popular.
I wonder why no one's rushing to say all Christians are hypocrites like they do when negative generalizations are made about muslism?
Hypocrisy, maybe...
Not very nice or very understanding, Brian.
So much for compassion and objectivity!
Mr. Prothero, your post is perfect. Yes, I find that the Christians who thump their Bibles the loudest are usually covering the sounds of their own lies and hypocrisies. Your friend in Indianapolis is to be admired, because not only did she know Jesus's quote about charity, but she lived it. Many others would not have been so kind.
But they would be willing to arm wrestle you over abortion or prayer in school. Thank you for a concise and well-thought piece of writing.
I'm a Christian. I am flawed. I am not religious. My faith is as a child with a father. I am nothing if not faithful and everyone sees it. I have nothing to hide. I didn't celebrate when OBL died, but, I thought as I still feel, he deserved to die for the murders he took reponsiblity for.
Of course your faith is childish. And since it is impossible for anyone to be faithful, then you must be nothing as you say...and that is what you are hiding. You are a liar but simple-minded. To be considered flawed, one must have a blueprint to compare with...and there cannot be any such thing for organic beings such as we.
Don't bother saying Jesus is your blueprint. He couldn't even write anything down. Do you seek to be illiterate like he was?
Wow, Daydreamer, you seem a bit angry. I am not sure what is worse, the generalizations made by this author and many of the commentators or the cheering section of those who aren't Christians pointing out how hypocritcal Christians are yet showing themselves to be somewhat petty. We are all flawed. We are all hypocritical. There are times in my day, when I feel filled with the Holy Spirit, that I am at my best–kind, considerate, giving, loving. At other times, I can be petty, lazy, and selfish. I still strive to be better but fail, just like everyone else in this world. I am not a brilliant man but I am smart enough to know that something greater than me exists, creates, guides, loves, shakes His head when I fail, but never gives up on me. If you want to call that childish, that is certainly fine. I am blessed to believe in that, blessed to know that He provides everything I need, and blessed to know that my job is to try to make the lives of people around me better by sacrificing myself for others.
Sorry, I meant Daydreamer, I meant Daytripper. My mistake.
Wow. People are imperfect and biased in following their faith. Do you feel you've brilliantly uncovered some hidden truth with this conclusion? You could easily assemble a comparable picture of a disposable Moses, Bhudda, or Mohammed. And I can easily outline the inconsistencies of those who call themselves athiets or agnostics, and the way they typically live, no matter how "above it all" they frequenlty regard themselves. There's nothing new, here.
Go ahead, Scott. Share your notions of the hypocrisies of us athiests and agnostics.
Yes, Scott, do tell....
Inconsistencies? For a non-belief? Are you retarded?
yes scott we're all ears, this atheist would like to hear it as well
Atheists and agnostics do practice a religion and have faith that there is no god...and yet they claim not to follow a religion, thus the hypocrisy. I believe in a God because there is a book I believe in...the basis of my religion. What do you base your belief that there is no God?
Springbranch, the definition of "religion" is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural." The definition does not fit us at all. So much for that lame point.
The definition for "faith" as it pertains to religion is "(1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion." Again, the definition does not even remotely fit.
What do we based our lack of belief in a God? The total lack of even the slightest shred of evidence throughout the entire universe, from the smallest atom to the immensity of the whole system.
Electric Larry...why are you defining faith by some religious standard when you aren't religious? A broader definition of faith is a belief in something based on a statement, tacking, etc. So I have faith that the Bible is true...you have faith that it isn't. And your statement that there is no proof is based on your belief and faith that everything you have ever seen or observed has happened by happenstance or something else. Again your belief system. I wouldn't say an atheist doesn't have faith...they clearly do, just a faith in "no God". I would argue atheists have more faith.
What would you guys consider evidence of a God to begin with? Ultimately, you CHOOSE to believe SOMETHING, regardless of any "evidence" you may or may not have present. You see our universe and all the knowledge we've amassed about it, and may choose to see something that just randomly, but inevitably, turned out a workable solution that allows us to exist. I see our universe and the same knowledge we've amassed about it, and choose to see something that was engineered to work the way it does, the first time.
Have you kept up with the discoveries of Quantum Mechanics? About how the universe constantly supports the current state of all matter, while allowing all next possible states to become the current state? That doesn't sound even a little like a framework for free will and choice?? Really?! I think you may not find the "slightest shred of evidence throughout the universe" because you're not even allowing for objective analysis of the evidence you do have. You CHOOSE to dismiss out of hand even the most remote POSSIBILITY that an intelligence came up with the system that allows us to exist. So much for objectivity in the pursuit of truth...
Pheadbaq...I could have the same argument for you...you dismiss any evidence of God out of hand because you have unflappable faith in quantum mechanics and all of this clear objective evidence. We just have different faiths. I'm not tearing down your faith in evolution or whatever you believe in. At the same time I'm not lame or stupid or simple minded for my faith.
Uhhh, SpringBranch, read my post again, I'm on your side here lol. That was directed at the folks above your post. I'll try to specify who I'm talking to next time. I'm was stating my belief that science DOES actually demonstrate support for God creating the universe, if people would just be objective. The machinery for free will and choice is all right in front of us. I mentioned Quantum Mechanics because it's basically the science of possibilities, which would be a necessary component of free will (in my mind at least... my belief).
LOL, my bad, glad your on "my side".
pheadbag
If we have free will then our choices cannot be held against us otherwise where is the "free" part?
If we cannot make our choices freely then we do not have free will but are only slaves without a choice.
I do not dismiss any actual proof "out of hand". Actual proof cannot be reasonably dismissed.
But you don't have any, do you?
It is the LACK of proof that allows us to dismiss your unsupported claims so easily.
Lack of anything upon which to base a rational choice is the reason atheism even exists as a word.
When you want to support your friends, you cannot do it with limp noodle brain.
SpringBranch, you are playing semantic games which are quite dishonest (though I realize you are just parroting a lame argument I have heard for years and may not know the argument is dishonest).
The definition of faith that pertains specifically to religion was given above. Faith has other broader definitions, but they are different meanings. To help you understand, "fast" refers to velocity when talking about horses, but it means "promiscuous" when talking about a woman. Same word, different meaning. You have to use different definitions of "faith" to make it appear to describe both religion and atheism, but that's dishonest. It makes it look like different things are the same things when they are not.
Similarly, you attempted to claim that atheists have their own religion – you have to use a very different colloquial definition of "religion" to make that work, which is dramatically different from the definition that fits Christianity. Dishonest semantic games.
Other Christians do that with "theory," trying to make it sound like the theory of evolution and the theory of intelligent design have the same standing. However, "theory" as it fits evolution is defined as "a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena", whereas "theory as it fits intelligent design is defined as "an unproved assumption : conjecture." One theory has an enormous mountain of evidence supporting it, the other does not have even the tiniest scrap of evidence for it. Same word, different meanings, not interchangable.
Dishonest people use those different definitions of the same word to confuse the rubes and yokels into believing something totally ridiculous. Are you one of the dishonest people, or the yokels?
SpringBranch: "I believe in a God because there is a book I believe in"
A book comprised of stories told by the ancestors of the men who photo-shopped two women out of a White House picture this week? Don't you see what creative license they took with reality, even back then?
So Stephen Prothero is finally catching on. "Disposable Jesus" is just another way of saying the Christians are hypocrites.
This survey seems to assume that polling Americans = polling Christians. I'm a religion-friendly atheist who answered along the lines of "no, it's not okay to celebrate a human death, ever" to a bunch of these kinds of surveys.
I know that the majority of Americans must check "Christian" on a form when self-identifying their religion, but I wonder if that's the same thing as actually *being* a Christian.
In other words, are all the Christians being surveyed really active, go-to-church Christians? Because it seems like that might be a box people check for the same reason I check "Caucasian" in the Ethnicity part of a form: because there's no more accurate option. Does that influence the interpretation of a survey, whether secular or faith-based?
As an outsider, it seems like I know two types of Christians: people who identify as Christian because that's how they were raised and what they identify with on a cultural level, who might not be people who are actively striving to follow the wisdom of Christ, and actively faithful Christians who work to follow Jesus' teachings – and who therefore might be more deserving in catching flak for celebrating a death, even Bin Laden's.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Also, can someone point me to where Jesus said it was OK to divide his church when we couldn't agree on interpetations of writing? Stick to the main teachngs people, and the rest will flow.
What main teachings? There are none. How sad that you are not understanding what is right in front of your face.
I've criticized Prothero's many, fairly insubstantial articles. This is the best article I've seen on belief blog.
Yes, he has done better this time. Maybe they tied him to his chair or something to get him to focus...
Agreed. I have bashed Prothero too, but he finally has put out some substance with an edge.
I bet the Christians bash him now for not putting out another conformist marshmallow of an article.
It's not the best I've seen, but it is better than some.
My Take: Poll on bin Laden's death reveals an imperfect humanity.
There is no disposable Jesus, just Christians that are imperfect and we sometimes forget how we should act. Thankfully, God is more gracious and merciful to us than we are to each other.
An honest Christian will admit that the reason he or she needs to be a Christian is because of imperfection (or sin) in their own life and they want to be reconciled to God and become a "better person". A Christian that claims to be or acts like they are perfect has forgotten where he or she came from.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these [are] the beginnings of sorrows.
Mark 13:8
Amen.
It starts in the pulpit. American Christians like to point out the fallibility of the infallible Pope but everything they say from the pulpit is treated, as Rush Limbaugh would say, "From God's mouth to their ears." But we live in the last days and that is to be expected.
last days of what, seafood? sure lookin' that way...
There's a bit of a logical disconnect in the poll. The question asked was whether a specific proverb about not celebrating the death of one's enemies should apply to bin Laden, but it doesn't ask whether one even believes in Jesus. Even someone who isn't religious and/or a Christian could agree with the sentiment in the proverb. Further, it isn't necessarily inconsistent for someone to believe the deaths of enemies should not be celebrated but still be willing to do some really nasty things to those enemies if needed to defeat them.
Matt 5:42, one of the few passages said by the simple preacher man aka Jesus as per most contemporary NT scholars. Unfortunately, most of what he supposedly said and did was invented by the Matthew et al.
For us contemporary folk:
Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European, white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices.
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, mostly-invented preacher man would do today? "Love thy neighbor" was around way before the first century CE.
to wit:
Ancient Egypt
"An early example of the Golden Rule that reflects the Ancient Egyptian concept of Maat appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant which is dated to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040–1650 BCE): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to cause that he do."[6] An example from a Late Period (c. 664 BC – 323 BCE) papyrus: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another."[9]
Love thy neighbor except when he is a jew? is that what the Ancient Egyptians wanted? People are the major issue when it come to religion. WE as people make words that are intended to make us help one another and be better people, twist them in such a way that if you squint look at it sidways and jump up and down it REALLY means kill that sob with a stick cuz he look at you funny
Yep, all cultures have taken pieces from other cultures. It is amazing with all of the evidence of religion being man made there are still those that believe in the divinity of it. My big assumption is that the creator wouldn't claim religion, no way no how. We created that concept. All religious dogma is flawed and no perfect creator would have created any of it.
I suppose you believe this scripture to be bogus too, Reality.
You hate all workers of iniquity.
Psalm 5:5
Amen.
Where is this Papyrus you speak of... i'd like to see it...
Wow. What an article.
Finally something that calls out the hypocrisy in all of us. Thank you.
As a Christian, I know that I am flawed and without the saving grace of Jesus Christ, would go to hell. In my flawed state, by default, I am not perfect. Therefore, by logic, a self proclaimed Christian nation is by definition flawed as well. That doesn't mean we don't constantly strive for the right (vs. wrong).
And isn't it convenient. You don't have to follow it, just say that you want to and you are forgiven. Religion takes away the need for self policing as you are told what you can't do and when you do it, well you are told how you can be forgiven. Do you think that doing what you know is wrong will be absolved just because you follow a dogma?
Lisa ConQueso
As a Christian, I know that I am flawed and without the saving grace of Jesus Christ, would go to hell. In my flawed state, by default, I am not perfect. Therefore, by logic, a self proclaimed Christian nation is by definition flawed as well. That doesn't mean we don't constantly strive for the right (vs. wrong).
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Does god talk to you? Do you hear his voice?
Amen sister. Well said.
Please re-read the top post. The writer says "That doesn't mean we don't constantly strive for the right (vs. wrong)."
Perhaps the word strive here comes across as rather more weak than is intended. Admission of one's moral flaws and the need for forgiveness and redemption do not any means grant license to indulge temptation with impunity. Failure to make every effort to take the right path is in effect spurning redemption; we have to do our part or it doesn't count. The point of it is, the most dedicated and sincere among us screw up; it is for that reason that we need forgiveness and redemption, just as we redouble our determination to avoid repeating our mistakes.
If this is true and I think it is, it shows just how shallow religion really is (not to mention how self serving the belief in a "personal" deity is).
I think it points to two things: scriptural illiteracy, and the level of abject fear that has been instilled in Americans by the 'War on Terror'. Fear brings out the worst in everyone.
And I would add, where strife exists there is every evil thing. American politics exists on strife. From a Christian perspective I know all the flaws on the left, but I am not a one or two issue voter. But to point out the hypocricy and the lies on the Christian right is to be scourged in the churches of the religious right.
Religion is idealism, not realism. What that means is people who practice any religion, practice it flawed. Ideally speaking you assume they follow their religion to the letter of the law, but they don't. Bottom line is anyone who mixes politics and religion is missing the point of religion. Religion shouldn't make you a thorn in the side of society as a lot of people have made it, religion is for you in your home and in your life. Not for me or someone else. If you believe in a ultimate diety, you can understand that men are diverse for a reason, and that reason is not for us to hate each other.
I am religious, but I do not expect others to be. I don't judge people for their beliefs. And they shouldn't judge me for mine.
I believe in God and that Jesus died for our sins and i used to refer to myself as religious but as i grew older and met people in general with hardly any religious affiliation who were so much more kinder and non judgemental and compasionate i now feel that i am more of a spiritual individual . Religion has become such an orgaization and man has created God in his own image.
Using your values of non-judgment, we should not judge anyone, not even criminals.
I judge your post as being intellectually bereft of common sense. You wrote it. I can judge you as easily as I judge any criminal.
You do the crime and you are a criminal. Judging is easy. Doing it intelligently is hard.
Fear gooses you into believing in your fake sociopath god. You have nothing but lies to sustain you in your faith.
You say I shouldn't judge you for your beliefs? Then you aren't the one believing? You don't choose to believe?
What is this crap you are saying?
Seems like Christians need to be evangelized and converted before they think about "doing that unto others."
Roger, I suppose you never read the following scripture ...
The Lord tests the righteous, but the wicked and the one who loves violence His Soul hates."
Psalm 11:5
Amen.
You mean people believe what they want? Open your eyes, this isn't new. I'm guessing that most people that call themselves religious, no matter what they follow, do not follow the ideology to the letter of the law because it is too inconvenient.
It is also impossible to follow every teaching of our savior Jesus... as man is fallen. That is why Jesus had to come and atone for our sins. However, imagine the peace you would receive if you did follow all of his teachings... His yoke is light... unfortunately satan also exists and tempts us... that is when you have what we have here today... pain, suffering, greed etc, etc...
I am at peace. I wish that the creator would wipe all religions from the face of the earth. People would just find another way to scapegoat and blame though.
Thank God this author is not making decisions in our government. He should go shepard his flock.