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My Take: Bible condemns a lot, so why focus on homosexuality?
June 21st, 2011
10:10 AM ET

My Take: Bible condemns a lot, so why focus on homosexuality?

Editor's Note: Jonathan Dudley is the author of Broken Words: The Abuse of Science and Faith in American Politics.

By Jonathan Dudley, Special to CNN

Growing up in the evangelical community, I learned the Bible’s stance on homosexuality is clear-cut. God condemns it, I was taught, and those who disagree just haven’t read their Bibles closely enough.

Having recently graduated from Yale Divinity School, I can say that my childhood community’s approach to gay rights—though well intentioned—is riddled with self-serving double standards.

I don’t doubt that the one New Testament author who wrote on the subject of male-male intercourse thought it a sin. In Romans 1, the only passage in the Bible where a reason is explicitly given for opposing same-sex relations, the Apostle Paul calls them “unnatural.”

Problem is, Paul’s only other moral argument from nature is the following: “Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is degrading to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory?” (1 Corinthians 11:14-15).

Few Christians would answer that question with a “yes.”

In short, Paul objects to two things as unnatural: one is male-male sex and the other is long hair on men and short hair on women. The community opposed to gay marriage takes one condemnation as timeless and universal and the other as culturally relative.

I also don’t doubt that those who advocate gay marriage are advocating a revision of the Christian tradition.

But the community opposed to gay marriage has itself revised the Christian tradition in a host of ways. For the first 1500 years of Christianity, for example, marriage was deemed morally inferior to celibacy. When a theologian named Jovinian challenged that hierarchy in 390 A.D. — merely by suggesting that marriage and celibacy might be equally worthwhile endeavors — he was deemed a heretic and excommunicated from the church.

How does that sit with “family values” activism today?

Yale New Testament professor Dale B. Martin has noted that today’s "pro-family" activism, despite its pretense to be representing traditional Christian values, would have been considered “heresy” for most of the church’s history.

The community opposed to gay marriage has also departed from the Christian tradition on another issue at the heart of its social agenda: abortion.

Unbeknownst to most lay Christians, the vast majority of Christian theologians and saints throughout history have not believed life begins at conception.

Although he admitted some uncertainty on the matter, the hugely influential 4th and 5th century Christian thinker Saint Augustine wrote, “it could not be said that there was a living soul in [a] body” if it is “not yet endowed with senses.”

Thomas Aquinas, a Catholic saint and a giant of mediaeval theology, argued: “before the body has organs in any way whatever, it cannot be receptive of the soul.”

American evangelicals, meanwhile, widely opposed the idea that life begins at conception until the 1970s, with some even advocating looser abortion laws based on their reading of the Bible before then.

It won’t do to oppose gay marriage because it’s not traditional while advocating other positions that are not traditional.

And then there’s the topic of divorce. Although there is only one uncontested reference to same-sex relations in the New Testament, divorce is condemned throughout, both by Jesus and Paul. To quote Jesus from the Gospel of Mark: “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.”

A possible exception is made only for unfaithfulness.

The community most opposed to gay marriage usually reads these condemnations very leniently. A 2007 issue of Christianity Today, for example, featured a story on its cover about divorce that concluded that Christians should permit divorce for “adultery,” “emotional and physical neglect” and “abandonment and abuse.”

The author emphasizes how impractical it would be to apply a strict interpretation of Jesus on this matter: “It is difficult to believe the Bible can be as impractical as this interpretation implies.”

Indeed it is.

On the other hand, it’s not at all difficult for a community of Christian leaders, who are almost exclusively white, heterosexual men, to advocate interpretations that can be very impractical for a historically oppressed minority to which they do not belong – homosexuals.

Whether the topic is hair length, celibacy, when life begins, or divorce, time and again, the leaders most opposed to gay marriage have demonstrated an incredible willingness to consider nuances and complicating considerations when their own interests are at stake.

Since graduating from seminary, I no longer identify with the evangelical community of my youth. The community gave me many fond memories and sound values but it also taught me to take the very human perspectives of its leaders and attribute them to God.

So let’s stop the charade and be honest.

Opponents of gay marriage aren’t defending the Bible’s values. They’re using the Bible to defend their own.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jonathan Dudley.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Homosexuality • Opinion

soundoff (6,474 Responses)
  1. Observer

    He's in his 30's.
    He's never married.
    He's never even had a date.
    He's never trashed gays.
    He lets other men rest their heads on his chest.
    He hangs around with 11 or 12 single guys all the time.

    What do h0m0phobes think?

    July 14, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
    • HeIsGod

      He is Lord of lords and King of kings, Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world!

      July 14, 2011 at 8:51 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I'm curious. Did you know that the way you run the words together makes it look like you are calling yourself "Hel(l)s God"? It makes you look like you worship satan.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:46 am |
    • Dan

      Not very Observant. Some of the Apostles were married, such as Peter.

      July 15, 2011 at 2:06 am |
    • GodPot

      @Dan – "Not very Observant. Some of the Apostles were married, such as Peter." So the only thing you can find wrong with his statement is that it's possible some of the disciples were married and he said "11 or 12 single guys"? By the way, Peter could have been married and there would have still been 11 single apostles, so ye are the "not very observant" one. And on top of that, what does being married have to do with not being gay? Just look at several fallen (and likely many still in the closet) evangelical leaders to see what I mean.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:12 pm |
    • Observer

      Dan,
      "Not very Observant. Some of the Apostles were married, such as Peter."

      Not very observant. I said "11 or 12". They aren't sure of the marital status of the apostles during all of their time with Jesus. Try to be more observant.

      July 15, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
  2. Observer

    AvdBerg,
    I have no objection at all to your giving your opinion on here. The problem with your responses is the greedy sales pitch. Keep your failing site out of the responses and leave people only to complain about your lack of reasoning.

    When your responses consist of such illogical statements as saying God is unchanging and then Jesus changed him, you have enough problems. Skip the ads. Try to be at least a tiny bit objective.

    July 14, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
  3. TheJlew

    I'm not even going to act like I've read every post, but I figured I'd share what God placed on my heart.
    In General – Nobody knows everything about God or what He has planned. We can try to understand and intellectualize Him but it will NEVER work. We have fights and fall-outs simply because people try to convince each other what God says about things that He has never directly addressed in His word. All any of us can do is try to follow His Word and pray that we give Him glory with our lives. He is the ultimate judge and will decide who and what is right.

    About sin – All of us do it, period! Redeemed or not we're all still sinners. Until Jesus returns we have to live together. Believers should be thankful for God's grace and forgiveness and try to live lives that will lead unbelievers to Christ. Unbelievers will be accountable to God. I pray that God has mercy on them until they meet Him for themselves.

    To the fellow believers – Defend the faith but stop arguing for God! They'll never COMPREHEND Consider the following scriptures
    1 Cor. 1:18-24

    18For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.

    19For it is written, I will baffle and render useless and destroy the learning of the learned and the philosophy of the philosophers and the cleverness of the clever and the discernment of the discerning; I will frustrate and nullify [them] and bring [them] to nothing.(A)

    20Where is the wise man (the philosopher)? Where is the scribe (the scholar)? Where is the investigator (the logician, the debater) of this present time and age? Has not God shown up the nonsense and the folly of this world's wisdom?

    21For when the world with all its earthly wisdom failed to perceive and recognize and know God by means of its own philosophy, God in His wisdom was pleased through the foolishness of preaching [salvation, procured by Christ and to be had through Him], to save those who believed (who clung to and trusted in and relied on Him).

    22For while Jews [demandingly] ask for signs and miracles and Greeks pursue philosophy and wisdom,

    23We preach Christ (the Messiah) crucified, [preaching which] to the Jews is a scandal and an offensive stumbling block [that springs a snare or trap], and to the Gentiles it is absurd and utterly unphilosophical nonsense.

    24But to those who are called, whether Jew or Greek (Gentile), Christ [is] the Power of God and the Wisdom of God.

    1 Cor. 2:14-16
    But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

    15But the spiritual man tries all things [he [g]examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him].

    16For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart.

    July 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
  4. AvdBerg

    @observer and LOL

    Is that the best you can do when we answer your questions.

    July 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • LOL

      take out your website in your replies then maybe we can take you seriously.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • Artist

      AvdBerg

      @observer and LOL

      Is that the best you can do when we answer your questions.
      -----
      I am impressed you didn't include your website. *golf clap*

      July 14, 2011 at 3:35 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      You want to know the truth go to http://www.gaychristian101.com

      July 14, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      @Observer & LOL

      We are afraid that even if we remove our website you would not believe us (Luke 16:31). Anything that is a deep hidden mystery cannot be explained in a few paragraphs. Will will try to send copies of articles, see if they will post them. Would that make you happy?

      July 14, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • LOL

      "Will will try to send copies of articles, see if they will post them. Would that make you happy?"

      I dare you. Just remember to look for the hidden words in the text.

      The moderators of this blog have set up a secret forbidden word filter which unfortunately not only will delete or put your comment in the dreaded "waiting for moderation" category but also will do the same to words having fragments of these words. For example, "t-it" is in the set but the filter will also pick up words like Hitt-ite, t-itle, beati-tude, practi-tioner and const-tution. Then there are words like "an-al" thereby flagging words like an-alysis and "c-um" flagging acc-umulate or doc-ument. And there is also "r-a-pe", “a-pe” and “gra-pe”, "s-ex", and "hom-ose-xual". You would think that the moderators would have corrected this by now considering the number of times this has been commented on but they have not. To be safe, I typically add hyphens in any word that said filter might judge "of-fensive".
      • More than one web address will also activate “waiting for moderation”. Make sure the web address does not have any forbidden word or fragment.
      Two of the most filtered words are those containing the fragments "t-it" and "c-um". To quickly check your comments for these fragments, click on "Edit" on the Tool Bar and then "Find" on the menu. Add a fragment (without hyphens) one at a time in the "Find" slot and the offending fragment will be highlighted in your comments before you hit the Post button. Hyphenate the fragment(s) and then hit Post. And remember more than one full web address will also gain a "Waiting for Moderation".
      And said moderators still have not solved the chronological placement of comments once the number of comments gets above about 100. They recently have taken to dividing the comments in batches of 50 or so, for some strange reason. Maybe they did this to solve the chronology problem only to make comment reviews beyond the tedious.
      “Raison's Filter Fiber© (joking about the copyright)
      1. Here's my latest list – this seems like a good spot to set this down, as nobody's posting much on this thread.....
      ––
      bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to post that wonderful argument:
      Many, if not most are buried within other words, but I am not shooting for the perfect list, so use your imagination and add any words I have missed as a comment (no one has done this yet)
      – I found some but forgot to write them down. (shrugs).
      s-ex
      c-um.........as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, etc.
      sp-ic........as in disp-icable (look out Sylvester the cat!)
      ho-mo...whether ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, etc.
      t-it.........const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, etc.
      an-al......ban-al
      sh-it
      fu-ck...
      who-re
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, (an unexpected one)
      pr-ick
      sl-ut
      c-lit
      va-g....as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant
      hor-ny
      ar-se....yet "ass" is not filtered!
      nip-ple
      po-rn
      c-ock
      nig-ger
      cu-nt
      b-itch
      ra-pe
      jacka-ss...but ass is fine lol
      p-is.....as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, etc.
      o ficti-tious, repeti-tion, competi-tion.
      Sna-tch
      soft-ware
      Ja-panese
      Span-king
      hoo-ters
      There are more, so do not assume that this is complete.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      For a better understanding we invite you to visit our website http://www.gaychristian101.com.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      @Observer & LOL

      There is no such individual as a Gay Christian. We will forward a copy of a letter in response to the Closure of a Gay Church in our community.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • LOL

      "There is no such individual as a Gay Christian. We will forward a copy of a letter in response to the Closure of a Gay Church in our community."

      There are plenty of gay Christians were I live and we have gay friendly churches. There are also gay clergy and nuns. LOL1

      What planet are you living on. God created gays it's been shown through science and psychology, so being gay is not a sin.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • Observer

      @LOL,

      From the responses of some of the believers, it's obvious that the Bible NEVER tells people to educate themselves and to learn everything they can about the world they live in. Not ONE WORD to use all the brains and logic that "God gave you".

      July 14, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
  5. Justinstl

    If you want to know who God is open your heart! If you want to know where God is look within yourself! We are all God God is man Man is God collectively we are all one! Do not beleive any of the bible storybook crap that men have written to controll other men. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofuvH5Mm30A

    July 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      no thanks...

      July 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
  6. Dan

    I have known many gay Christians and have even visited affirming or mostly gay-oriented churches. The one thing that strikes me the most is how they always seem to spend so much time defending their position. Really, if God is okay with it, why all the polemics? If you have to go to such lengths, maybe you're trying to prove something to yourself that your conscience is telling you is wrong. You wouldn't be the first to try to justify sin apart from God, it's human nature. "Methinks thou dost protest too much" is an appropriate saying here.

    July 14, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      Since there is no "Like" button provided....this will have to do... "LIKE"

      July 14, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • LOL

      The problem with people like you are you are deaf and blind to all the hatred and prejudice that is spewed by Christians claiming it's an abomination. Our society doesn't need to be condemning gays and lesbians especially since the experts in both science and psychology have shown that it's not a mental illness, it's not a choice and it can't be voluntarily change.

      ""Methinks thou dost protest too much" is an appropriate saying here"

      If you look back through history when a minority group was trying to get their civil rights what happen...they had to protest to much to finally get their equal rights. It's people like you who are prejudice that don't want to hear the truth, because the old saying prejudice is based on ignorance is an appropriate saying here.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
    • Observer

      – Luke 16:18 “Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”

      This are FAR FAR MORE Christians committing this Ten Commandment sin that there are people committing the abomination (eating shellfish, etc.) of being gay. Is there ANY explanation for why Christians trash gays FAR MORE than their adulterous fellow Christians or than HYPOCRISY?

      July 14, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      The difference between this movement and those fighting for Civil Rights is "They weren't sitting around trying to convince each other that being black was ok with God" They weren't trying to convince each other or anyone else for that matter that even though the Bible they beleive in and live by condemns their actions, they can still force it up into God's nostrils and expect Him to be happy with it or to "change His mind". "See God, we can act just like a good christian"... But the first rule of Christianity is to obey His commandments.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Observer

      A Matter of FAITH,

      Actually, the Bible was used to support slavery. It also can be used to support the inferiority of women and discrimination against the handicapped. We won't get into God's use of incest to populate the world twice.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • LOL

      MatterofFaith so based on your poor logic women should be quiet, stay at home, obey their husbands, not divvorce and certainly not become priests. You are proving you will do anything to justify your prejudice. LOL! The bible also supported slavery....and a man could sleep with the slave if their wives could have children.....huh.....

      July 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      If the Bible advocates slavery tell me why did the people of Israel need to be freed from it? Why did God part the red sea if He saw nothing wrong with people being enslaved?

      July 14, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
    • GodPot

      To me, this is like showing up at Cowboy costume party in a Pirate costume and having to explain to each and every Cowboy there why your in a Pirate costume. You'll tell them "Well, you see Pirates were sort of like the Cowboy's of the sea" or "My Cowboy costume is at the cleaners..."

      To the Pirates out there still wanting to be apart of the Cowboy community, give it a rest and just go have your own Pirate party instead, the Cowboy's are to ignorant and exclusionary for you and you shouldnt want to be at their party anyway.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
    • Observer

      A Matter of FAITH,

      Check the Bible. Slavery wasn't good for his people, but it was fine if they owned slaves. Hypocrisy.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      @ Observer, I believe what you meant was that slavery was never advocated when it involved the mistreatment of the slave. When that happened and man started to do whatever they saw fit to a slave, that's when it was a problem with God. The Bible speaks on how to treat a slave...which is a far cry from what they were actually doing. The Bible never advocates the way slaves were treated in America.... bad argument!

      July 14, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • LOL

      "The Bible never advocates the way slaves were treated in America.... bad argument!"

      The Bible never advocated that being gay was a sin in America – bad argument!

      July 14, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
    • Observer

      A Matter of FAITH,
      God's words: (Exodus 21:20-21) “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property”

      So, to you, this is basically saying that God says slavery is bad. WOW!

      "The Bible never advocates the way slaves were treated in America.... bad argument!". So the Bible doesn't apply to America? HORRENDOUS argument.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      OM Goodness.... That's laughable.... You actually thought I was talking about the location? really? come on people....

      July 14, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
    • LOL

      My comment was meant to be sarcastic. The text that some Christians use to condemn gays is not about what we NOW know about them. When the text is put into historical context it was about pagan s-ex worshiping a pagan god, male prost-itution and idolatry. Get the picture...

      July 14, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      Thank you... I hear what you are saying... How would you argue this scripture? Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
    • LOL

      "Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

      Have you even read about this time period? Men dressed up as women, women dressed up as men, they had pagan rituals that would put themselves into a spiritual state, using alcohol or other means and then worship their god. You even see it today someone gets drunk or stoned then commits acts they otherwise wouldn't.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:06 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      When you continue to read that same chapter it shows you that this is not specific to any pagan rituals but is a broad realm of sin that all have the same consequence. The point I am trying to make is that even though WE ALL can be counted in one of these groups that is not the point. The point is what you do when you find that your action does not please God. Do you try to convince Him He is wrong or do you obey Him. WE ALL must be born again!!! This is when you can truly say you love Him because you have followed Him and obeyed Him. See Act 2:38 for instruction....people are still doing this today and being transformed.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      For your reference: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

      July 14, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • LOL

      "WE ALL must be born again!!"

      Most of the gay and lesbians I know are born again and attend our church. That's my point. The Christians gays I know only want equal civil rights through legal marriage so that their partners and children will be protected the same way straights would be if something happens to one of the parents. Hatred and prejudice has no place in a Christian heart.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      There is no hatred here. only the word of God.... The first part of being born again is "repentence" which means a turning away from the things we know do not please God. You cannot be "born again" without it.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
    • LOL

      "The first part of being born again is "repentence" which means a turning away from the things we know do not please God. You cannot be "born again" without it."

      Being gay is not a sin when you are born that way and are a creation of God. I am as-suming you think being gay is a sin since you keep using the word repentance. Are you really equating what we NOW know about gays to the se-x rituals and male prost-itution as the same thing? Plus when you take into account that the word ho-mo-se-xual was added later to the bible by bias translators it shows it is not about what we NOW know about them.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • JW

      If being gay is a sin, at what point does it become a sin? Is it a sin for me to tell someone I am gay? Is it a sin to hug another man? Is love between two people of the same gender a sin? I do not see how anyone could call these things in and of themselves a sin, so I dont see why a gay marriage is considered sinful

      July 14, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      How can I tell you of heavenly things if you don't even understand the earthly things? Might I suggest that man's own lust has blinded him of God's truth.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • Observer

      A Matter of FAITH,
      "Might I suggest that man's own lust has blinded him of God's truth."

      Paul in the Bible supports you. He said that not only men shouldn't marry men, they shouldn't marry women either. He said that marriage was just for those too weak to resist lust. Not exactly a great endorsement for marriage for heteros.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
    • LOL

      "How can I tell you of heavenly things if you don't even understand the earthly things? Might I suggest that man's own lust has blinded him of God's truth."

      Nice dancing around the point, do you or do you not believe being gay is a sin. Yes or no?. There are many churches, pastors, nuns, rabbi that have gone on record stating what we NOW know about gays it is not a sin. If you feel that way then you should be celebrate but that doesn't mean gays have to be. They deserve to have loving long-term relationships, married before God, just like you. You don't know anything about heavenly things because you are failing in understanding the TRUE meaning of love.

      July 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • Brian

      If you look at roman culture during that time It was socially acceptable and legal for a roman man to have s3x with male prosti__tutes, or male slaves, it would have been considered adultery for him to have s3x with a man equal in his status. So using prosti__ tutes is what is the sin today because slavery is illegal.

      July 14, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  7. The Pirate

    I am a Christian with a scientific background, my church affiliations is irrelevant. but I will say that there is truth in the scriptures, but the facts are not always correct. but we cannot condemn the writers of the bible, because the could only write about what they could see around them that made reasonable sense to them, therefore to them the world and everything else was created in 6 days and on the 7th God rested. today we recognize that our universe is almost 15 billion years old, so much for 6 days, but considering they had no conception of time as we know it today, they did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. and that's OK. If you want to really see the hand of God at work, just look at the pictures sent to us from the Hubble Telescope, particularly those of the horse head nebula. that place is the nursery of stars. makes a man feel mighty humble, and I believe a little more accepting of the hand work of our creator. It's beautiful, anyone who looks at it and comes away saying there is no God is spiritually dead. (in my humble opinion) Bearing all this in mind, I believe that our creator does indeed have a plan for and makes use of each and every one of us, even if we don't believe in Him, I believe He believes in us, He made all of us, Christians, Jews, Muslims and athirst alike, we are all made in His image. like it or not. I have had gay friends over the years (I am 71 ) and have always felt that they we no better nor worse than anyone else. While I do not agree with there life style for a variety of reasons, (health and psychological issues to name a few) Find that marriage is still basically a commitment between a man and a woman, with the primary purpose of procreation. I feel that civil and or legal unions a certainly an acceptable alternative for the term marriage, Marriage has been around for thousands of years predating Jewish and certainly Christian traditions. I feel sorry for Gays that want to be Married, I feel that it does not serve the same purpose as that of a union between a male and female. ,

    July 14, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Artist

      You are not making sense. You talk about them writing about what they observed. Then talk about the hand of god. If the word of god there was no self imput or "observations". By what you state you admit the writings were of men, not a god or wizard in the sky.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • GodPot

      "we cannot condemn the writers of the bible, because the could only write about what they could see around them that made reasonable sense to them" "but considering they had no conception of time as we know it today, they did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. and that's OK."

      Moses wrote Genesis around 1500 BCE and by that time was an older man who had been raised as a Prince of Egypt, trained in all their religious ideology that included understanding the Eqyptian calander that had been in use for over 1500 years (since about 3000 BCE).

      "The ancient civil Egyptian calendar had a year that was 360 days long and was divided into 12 months of 30 days each, plus five extra days (epagomenae, from Greek ἐπαγόμεναι) at the end of the year." – Wiki

      July 14, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Justinstl

      you do not need to be married to procreate! Marriage has nothing to do with religion and for everyone God is different.
      here watch this Pirate!! We are all God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofuvH5Mm30A

      July 14, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
  8. Observer

    GodPot,

    Good THOUGHTFUL points.

    Were you able to supply the reference to Jesus having men sleep with their heads on his chest?

    July 14, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • GodPot

      John 13:23 – "There was reclining on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved." New American Standard

      "Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved" King James

      "There was at table one of his disciples, the one dear to Jesus, resting his head on Jesus' breast." Bible in Basic English

      July 14, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Observer

      GodPot,

      Thanks. It's a refreshing change to find someone who can back up his statements with facts rather than ignor questions.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • GodPot

      I had missed your request on the prior page post. I have read the bible cover to cover at least 3 times in my life so I'm not bringing random ignorant anti-christian rants to these boards unlike most of the Christians who just bring their random ignorant anti-atheist rants while never having read their own book in entirety.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • Justinstl

      Jesus disliked organized religion....so why do we go to church and stand by beliefs of organized religion.

      god is love we are all god! God is us without us there is no God without God there is no us.

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofuvH5Mm30A&w=640&h=360]

      July 14, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • Observer

      GodPot,

      "I have read the bible cover to cover at least 3 times in my life". I'm not surprised. A recent poll/test showed that the average atheist and average agnostic know more about the Bible than the average Christian.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • Artist

      I used to read the bible quite a bit when I believed it. After I stopped putting faith in man, I stopped and saw no need to keep reading it. To argue scripture with a believer is like arguing over the story of santa being the word of a god. The bible is their world and reality, they can live in it if they wish.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • LOL

      "To argue scripture with a believer is like arguing over the story of santa being the word of a god. The bible is their world and reality, they can live in it if they wish."

      If it's affecting a part of our society that is a minority, fueling the hatred and prejudice toward that group, is it okay then?

      July 14, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Artist

      LOL

      "To argue scripture with a believer is like arguing over the story of santa being the word of a god. The bible is their world and reality, they can live in it if they wish."

      If it's affecting a part of our society that is a minority, fueling the hatred and prejudice toward that group, is it okay then?
      .
      Of course not. The Christian Taliban needs to be educated on where their moral line ends and society lives freely. Its like America has dumbed down with the rise of the evangelicals.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Artist

      GodPot

      John 13:23 – "There was reclining on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved." New American Standard

      "Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved" King James

      "There was at table one of his disciples, the one dear to Jesus, resting his head on Jesus' breast." Bible in Basic English

      ---------
      It is interesting that the Christian Taliban is against gays, yet it appears their savior was gay as well. In fact if you look at the habits/patterns of jesus, he was more gay than straight. lol

      July 14, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  9. A Matter of FAITH

    Listen, We were all born in sin according to the word of God. We all have things we need to learn to overcome. Ever wonder why there are things kids do that are inherently bad that you didn't have to teach them? It's the sin that has been handed down in the human family. If you are human you are a sinner. Thank God He commands us to be BORN AGAIN!!! That is when we can come into His kingdom. So unless you have been born again, you are just playing at the christian thing!!! You may say you are one and that you accept Him, the question is always....did HE accept you?

    July 14, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      Sin is a lot more than just an act. For a better understanding what it means to be a sinner we invite you to read the articles What is Sin? and Victory over Sin listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

      July 14, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • GodPot

      "We all have things we need to learn to overcome." Right! Like being left handed, or having brown hair when we really would prefer to have been born blonde or being attracted to someone that everyone tell's us were not allowed to be attracted to. Makes perfect sense, yup, born into sin... that is if you are a coniving, greedy con artist who wants to make people think that they need to give you money because you were "born" with an undiagnosable malady called sin...

      July 14, 2011 at 2:10 pm |
    • Artist

      A Matter of FAITH

      Listen, We were all born in sin according to the word of God.
      ---
      Need to correct you there. It is according to the word of man. You have faith in the men who wrote and chose your books of your bible. You faith starts in man.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • A Matter of FAITH

      @Artist...Correction – You can only speak for your own faith. Mine was not placed in me by man. Mine was definately a supernatural experience with God Himself. He has confirmed His word for me over and over again. This is how we know that the divine inspiration is accurate. Please don't fool yourself into believing that man is the highest power or highest authority... I haven't.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm |
  10. Dave

    It’s a sad thing to see how far we have fallen and how deceived people are “THE BIBLE SAYS THIS”
    2 Peter 2
    1. But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
    2. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
    3. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
    4. For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
    5. and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
    6. and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
    7. and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed with the filthy conduct of the wicked
    8. (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)
    This is the “WORD OF GOD” All will be judge by the word of God and your obedience to it….

    July 14, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • GodPot

      Just out of curiosity, who told you "This is the “WORD OF GOD”? Did you read the bible yourself one day and just happen accross 2 Timothy 3:16 and said "Ahaha! There it is in black and white! What I am reading just told me that what I am reading is inspired by God" Wow! It must be true!" Or were you a young impressionable child who was dragged to Church Sunday mornings and eventually just accepted whatever the Sunday school teacher said since neither your Parents or anyone you knew refuted it? I'm guessing the latter.

      ITo continue quoting "God" as a reliable source on anything, you must first prove your "God" exists and have him verify that what is in the book you quote is really what he wanted to say and how he feels. Otherwise you are merely making claims that are as valid as basing a belief system on a comic book.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
  11. Dave

    Anyone can call theselves a christian. Am a christian this or that "BUT THE WORD OF GOD SAY THIS"
    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. . "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    Jesus said if you love Him you will keep his commandments..He who loves him not keep not his commandments… His commandments are his instruction on how we are to live and behave..the holy Spirit give us the power to obey his words. Jesus never used the words “gay christians” He tells all of us sinners to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. If any man be in Christ he is a new creation old behavior are past we now live according to his word. Not come into the kingdom his government and not obey the kingdom rules…who’s in charge? Us or God?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Brian

      AvdBerg, it's much higher than religion. Please read my original post below this one.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:01 pm |
  12. SnowBear80

    So you're pro-abortion but against killing terrorists?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • Observer

      Abortion is legal and even terrorists are quaranteed that they will be dealt with by the laws of our land. SOME people believe our nation is based on law and SOME don't.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • SnowBear80

      Just because something's legal doesn't make it right.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
  13. Brian

    Sorry to stray away from the original topic of this article but after reading some of the posts here, I felt compelled to comment.

    It's funny to hear "God-haters" attempt to debunk the Bible through their use of sarcasm and mediocre wit. I know that most atheists who despise God, or the Bible, haven't even attempted to read the Bible or even think about God. Instead, they base their judgements on what they see on TV and what they hear from others. And before anyone attempts to crucify me for that statement, notice how I used the word "most" and not "all." Thank you.

    But let me take this moment to enlighten the atheists among us now.

    I am not a God-believer because someone told me to be. I am not a God-believer because I was raised in that fashion. I am not a God-believer because some evangelical knocked on my door and gave me two choices, heaven or hell. I am not a God-believer because a church invited me to be.

    However, I AM a God-believer because God spoke to me Himself, in the most literal sense.

    And if it weren't for that day, I would likely be the biggest, science-backed atheist this world has ever seen. To deny the existence of a superior being is like saying the sun may not rise tomorrow morning. Science cannot explain how everything in this world, down to our own human bodies, work together like clockwork and how it came to be. Truly, even the most intellectual, highly educated, and enlightened atheists don't have an answer. Why not take a leap of faith and believe in something higher than yourself?

    It won't kill you. I promise.

    July 14, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • LOL

      You do realize that there are thousand of Christian gays and lesbians out there right? They have married their partners before God, have had their children baptized and live very righteous lives. All they are asking for is equal civil rights. It's been shown that gays are born this way, they are a creation from God. It's time for Christians to recognize the brainwashing of prejudice and hatred so our society can start to heal.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
    • James

      Based on your argument, I don't need to believe until God literally speaks to me. I'm OK with that. Let him know I'm here and ready to take his call.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • Brian

      James, to be quite honest, you're right. Some things take time but don't despair. Live your life, take care of yourself, do good things, and keep your mind clear of taint and open to possibilities of something higher than yourself. In my opinion, that's the best way to live your life anyway. Take care.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:04 pm |
    • Observer

      Brian,
      "I know that most atheists who despise God, or the Bible"

      Please explain how atheists can "despise" a God that they don't think exists. Do you love the Easter Bunny? Do you hate Lex Luthor for trying to kill Superman?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Brian

      Observer, you're not very observant of my original post and what it said if you're asking me irrelevant and silly questions. I'm willing to bet you didn't even read my whole post before deciding to comment on it. However, I'm sorry I left something out. I meant to say, "despise the thought of a God." And to answer your questions, 1) I love the Easter Bunny because it's cute and 2) I dislike Lex Luthor for trying to kill Superman. 🙂

      On that note, I will leave you with a quote from my original post:
      "It's funny to hear "God-haters" attempt to debunk the Bible (and God-believers) through their use of sarcasm and mediocre wit."

      July 14, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • Observer

      Brian,
      "I'm willing to bet you didn't even read my whole post before deciding to comment on it." So you said something wrong that needed to be corrected and it's my fault?

      The ignorance that atheists "hate God" is frequently spread by believers. My questions were perfectly valid based on your statement that you said needed to be corrected. Don't attack people when admittedly you were wrong.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • Brian

      Observer,
      Please don't misconstrue my textual statements as "attacks." I'm JUST SAYING.

      Have a good one. Cheers!

      July 14, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
  14. Dave

    This is Jesus Speaking in Mark Ch 7
    20. And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man.
    21. "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
    22. "thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
    23. "All these evil things come from within and defile a man."
    Jesus and the Apostles dealt with all ungodly social behavior he hid not trash us he said repent
    Stop doing it and turn to him..not matter what it is He is a present help in time of trouble.
    Jesus was born a Jew under the law..He never sinned…sin is transgression of the law
    He was Divine and yet human we are the ones out of control and need to get it right that’s
    why we have His words to guide us but if we keep on rebelling He will deal with us. We want a loving God but not a judging God. We want to do what we want? Sorry it not so…

    July 14, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
    • LOL

      "Jesus was born a Jew under the law"

      Gays were born gay as proven by science, so there is not need to repent when you are created by God.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • Dan

      @LOL...Proven by science? Really? I'm sure that you can provide us all with the definitive stdy or studies that prove this then! Please post, so that we all may be enlightened.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • Sharon

      Dan all you have to do is google it. The A.P.A website states " Most scientists today agree that s-exual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, s-exual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's s-exuality."

      July 14, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Dan

      Sharon...You have said absolutely nothing. The fact that "most scientists agree" that homs-exuality is a complex anything demonstrates that they theorize, but have not proven, what you assert. Seventy years ago, most scientists agreed that Piltdown Man was genuine, but they were wrong. You offer no proof whatsoever.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Azrael

      LOL the science is anecdotal at best....... As to date there is no quote unquote gay gene that has been identified by science..... As for this chap that went to Yale Divinity it suprises me that he only picks at a small section in the New Testament..... As there are multiple verses in the bible pertaining to the topic...... New and Old testament and for those who would ask to quote the verses and events i suggest opening a bible and reading it cover to cover

      July 14, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • LOL

      ".You have said absolutely nothing. The fact that "most scientists agree" that homs-exuality is a complex anything demonstrates that they theorize, but have not proven, what you assert."

      Dan your ignorance is showing because it's been good enough to pass laws that protect gays and lesbians. LOL!

      July 14, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Dan

      LOL...Please. Laws are passed because society has deemed that harming gays just because they are gay is not right. It has nothing to do with science.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • LOL

      "It has nothing to do with science."

      Oh let’s see science is defined as: the systematic study of the nature and behavior of the material and physical universe, based on observation, experiment, and measurement, and the formulation of laws to describe these facts in general terms.

      Based on what Sharon posted….. The words; biology. genetic. hormonal factors, biological all fall under the category of science. LOL

      July 14, 2011 at 2:56 pm |
    • Observer

      Dan,

      Since you apparently believe you know more than the concensus of the professionals at APA, would you mind telling us about your superior educational background and knowledge of the subject?

      July 14, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
  15. RH

    One of the first commandments to Adam and Eve was to be one and to multiply and replenish the earth. Male/Male unions and female/female unions cannot ever fulfill this commandment and thus such unions must not be in conformity with God's intent for his children. To such couples, we should say as Christ said to the woman caught in adultry when he did not comdemn her, "go and sin no more."

    July 14, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • LOL

      So the straight couples that can't have children and older couples who marry also would have to be told go and sin no more. LOL! You do understand that gay couples have children right? There is a work around. God created gays because they are born that way.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • James

      RH, back then, the Earth needed some fruitful multiplying, seeing as there were only 2 human beings in existence. But did God say to multiply to such a degree as to overpopulate the planet and drain it of its resources until it dies? I think it reasonable to assume that God would want us to show some common sense and stop multiplying at some point since space and resources are finite. When you tell your child to run to the store and get some Captain Crunch, do you have to tell him not to buy ALL of the Captain Crunch? Or do you assume that he'll buy a box or two and have the common sense to stop there?

      As to the rest of your "interpetation", that's just you reading things into those bible quotes that clearly aren't there simply because you want them to be.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Dan

      @LOL...I have known many gay Christians and have even visited affirming or mostly gay-oriented churches. The one thing that strikes me the most is how they always seem to spend so much time defending their position. Really, if God is okay with it, why all the polemics? If you have to go to such lengths, maybe you're trying to prove something to yourself that your conscience is telling you is wrong. You wouldn't be the first to try to justify sin apart from God, it's human nature. "Methinks thou dost protest too much" is an appropriate saying here.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • Observer

      Dan,

      Have you noticed all the believers who love to quote against gays, but NEVER quote the Golden Rule? Why do they use the Bible as an excuse and IGNOR their greater sins from the Bible. "If you have to go to such lengths, maybe you're trying to prove something to yourself that your conscience is telling you is wrong."

      July 14, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • LOL

      "Really, if God is okay with it, why all the polemics? If you have to go to such lengths, maybe you're trying to prove something to yourself that your conscience is telling you is wrong. You wouldn't be the first to try to justify sin apart from God, it's human nature. "Methinks thou dost protest too much" is an appropriate saying here."

      The problem with people like you are you are deaf and blind to all the hatred and prejudice that is spewed by Christians claiming it's an abomination. Our society doesn't need to be condemning gays and lesbians especially since the experts in both science and psychology have shown that it's not a mental illness, it's not a choice and it can't be voluntarily change. Or where you to lazy to do any actual research on this subject.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
    • LetsThink123

      hey RH,
      i wanted to let you know that adam and eve never existed. you were brought up believing a myth with no evidence. Infact, when you ask logical questions about the adam and eve story, they cannot be answered logically (magic answers like god did it are not accepted). Some logical questions are:
      1. FACT: If a brother and sister have a child together, there is a high probability of that child suffering from retardation.
      Based on this fact, why isn't most of the world suffering from retardation if we all came from Adam and Eve?
      2. FACT: The first early humans were walking this earth 200k-500k years ago, and came out of AFRICA.
      Based on this fact, how does the Adam and Eve story hold up to such a vast error in timescale? God created the world in 7 days, and even if you say that 1 day = 1000 years, the number is still way off!
      3. FACT: The stars we see in the night sky are just other suns (some larger than our sun, some smaller). They were also formed BEFORE our sun.
      Genesis 1:3 says: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. <– This means that the sun was created.
      Genesis 1:16 says: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
      Why did God make the stars AFTER our sun?? It contradicts FACT.
      4. FACT: Land animals were present BEFORE animals who could aviate.
      Genesis 1:20 says: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
      Genesis 1:21 says: And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
      Why did god do the reverse??

      Side note: The Epic of Gilgamesh was a collection of stories written 200 years before the bible. Conveniently, the adam and eve story (and Noah's ark) is very similar to the ones in Epic of Gilgamesh. Don't you think it's plagiarized in the bible?

      August 24, 2011 at 11:42 am |
  16. dfausett

    Gay marriage advocates ignore the Bible, culture, history, and biology. I have no opposition to civil unions or domestic partnerships, with legal rights equivalent to those of married couples. Just don't call it a marriage. That is thumbing your nose at society. It needlessly inflames the opposition.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • LOL

      To late it's already called marriage in several states. LOL! That's what it means to have equal civil rights.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • James

      Research it; marriage did not start with Christianity, or even with religion. Therefore, Christianity has thumbed its nose at society and stolen what did not belong to them. Apparently they have a double standard a.k.a. hypocrisy. But Christianity is famous for stealing. Pretty much all of their holidays were taken from the pagans.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • dfausett

      @LOL Well, it is also called a civil union or a domestic partnership in several states. So why push to have it called gay marriage? And how would anyone's civil rights be denied, if civil unions or domestic partnerships have legal rights equivalent to those of married couples?
      @James I did not claim that marriage originated within Christianity. Hindus and Jews had marriage in their religions before Christians, but Christians did not take marriage away ('steal') from any other religion. Muslims also have marriage, but did not steal it from anyone else. Do you know of any religion that does not incorporate marriage into its teachings? What do your comments have to do with the discussion of gay marriage?

      July 14, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Dan

      James. That's just silly. Given that historical records only go back so far, there is no way to prove what you say.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
  17. Lorenzo

    This was the dumbest piece of work I have ever read. I can't believe this actually made it on CNN..The arguement has no substance, and coming from a Christian, you should be ashamed .

    July 14, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • LOL

      That's why exactly what he has been talking about is happening in the comments. LOL!

      July 14, 2011 at 11:55 am |
    • James

      Since his entire article was based on the bible, you have just claimed that the Bible has no substance. Your retort, however, had absolutely no substance.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
  18. Lisa

    Unbelievable. Three times I tried to post quotations from Levicitus and Corithians and they will not go through. My other posts when through, though. What is going on?

    July 14, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • tallulah13

      There are probably words in there that contain combinations of letters that form words that are considered offensive to the automated filter CNN has in place. Go back, look for words that contain combinations like t-it or c-um or s-ex or anything that might be considered even mildly profane and split them using spaces, dashes or periods. Then you should be able to post.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Lisa
      You don't even have to post the scripture in question.
      Leviticus can be immediately dismissed if you're not Jewish, unless you follow EVERY command in there. Do you wear poly-cotton blended clothes? Eat shellfish? Have more than one kind of plant in your garden? Then you'll rot in hell.

      All the ho.mophobic christians out there point to 1 Corinthians 6:9 as their justification. Here's some food for thought on that one:
      In the original Greek, the terms used in Corinthian's list of vices that are sometimes translated as "hom-ose.xual" are 'malakoi' and 'ar.senkoitai'.
      AR.SENKOTAI – Has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV), "se.xual per.verts" (RSV), "sodo.mites" (NKJV, NAB, JB, NRSV), those "who are guilty of hom.ose.xual per.version" (NEB), "men who lie with males" (Lamsa), "behaves like a hom.ose.xual" (CEV), "men who have se.xual relations with other men" (NCV), and "ho.mose.xual offenders" (NIV). The New American Bible (Roman Catholic) translated ar.senokoitai as "practicing hom.ose.xuals". After much protest, the editors agreed to delete this term and replace it with "sodo.mites" in subsequent editions.
      'Ar.senokoitai' referred to male prosti.tutes for Paul and Christians until the 4th century.
      MALAKOI – Literally means "soft" or "males who are soft". This word has been translated as "ef.feminate" (KJV), "hom.ose.xuals" (NKJV), "corrupt" (Lamsa), "per.verts" (CEV), "catamites" which means call boys (JB), "those who are male prosti.tutes" (NCV), and "male prost.itutes." (NIV, NRSV). Until the Reformation in the 16th century and in Roman Catholicism until the 20th century, malakoi was thought to mean "mas.turb.ators." Only in the 20th century has it been understood as a reference to hom.ose.xuality.
      So does God condemn gays in the New Testament?
      It all depends on what translation you're reading.

      I apologize if you were going to quote something else from Corinthians.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
  19. Mike

    I guess you could call this article a "double twist".....

    July 14, 2011 at 11:14 am |
  20. LMK

    The Bible is a spiritual guide written by men in order to interpret their world and experiences and explain the beginnings of life. It's not something we can take verbatim to apply to all life. If it was, we'd all be eligible to be stoned to death by wearing jeans and poly-cotton blends.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • Dave

      2 Timothy 3

      1. But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
      2. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
      3. unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,
      4. traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
      13. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
      16. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17. that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
      Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
      But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
      The question DO YOU BELEIVE GOD AND HIS WORD?
      if you dont then you are god and its what you say..you see the rebellion now and fallen nature now....

      July 14, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • maziotla

      The bible was not written by men. Its was written by Jesus Christ and it is most certainly verbatim for all things. Gay marriage is discusting and most definaatly wrong. America and other western nations will continue to by judged until they turn back to christ jesus.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • Observer

      maziotla,

      You might want to actually read the Bible. Jesus NEVER trashed gays, but he sure trashed all the Christians who divorce and remarrry committing adultery.

      If you REALLY care about what Jesus said, you need to be trashing adulterous Christians who are FAR FAR GREATER in number than the number of gays. Otherwise, your comments are just hypocrisy.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • ...

      Avdberg is a troll peddling their book don't bother it's garbage.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • Observer

      AvdBerg,
      Who are you trying to kid? You don't have answers for anything. Everything is read my book. Every answer is go to my website.

      If you can't answer questions without sending people elsewhere, you shouldn't be here. You ignorantly trashed CNN and now you are hypocritical enough to use them to peddle your book, while you are incapable of directly answering questions. You can't get the president, Bill O'Reilly or EVEN Glenn Beck to support it. Don't waste our time.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • .....

      Click the report abuse link on this AvdBerg troll who is only here to peddle their book.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • James

      Go Timmmmaaaayyyyy!!!!! I love systems that hand out grand rewards based on a completely arbitrary basis. Imagine if the entire world worled that way. Promotions would be based on how well you could draw unicorns. Your school grades would be based on how much you like strawberries. And people would like you based on how well you can air guitar to Van Halen. Or how about people be rewarded with heaven based on their ability to believe something and punished with eternity in hell for their lack of such ability. They are all equally arbitrary and stupid. How about rewarding people based on merit? Wouldn't that be a nice system, religious or otherwise?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • LOL

      "Some people have claimed that we use our messages to promote our website or book. This is not true! If CNN is willing to post our articles we would not have to correct people in this manner."

      That's a lie. You can post here you just have to get through the filters. I have posted long articles so it can be done as long as it's on topic and address a specific comment. Some more proof look through and you will see Reality has been doing it for a long time but it doesn't mean people will actually read them here.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • Observer

      AvdBerg,

      I factually report that you can't answer any questions and just try to send everyone to your site and your answer is:
      "Send us your questions and we will answer them all using the very Word of God"

      Not that there was any need for further proof, but you supplied the best possible answer to my charge. INCREDIBLE lack of logic.

      "All we have received from you is false accusations". LOL!

      July 14, 2011 at 12:47 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.