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Dutch ban on Jewish, Muslim butchering passes hurdle
June 28th, 2011
12:10 PM ET

Dutch ban on Jewish, Muslim butchering passes hurdle

From Eileen Hsieh, CNN

Dutch lawmakers Tuesday approved an animal-rights measure that would ban Jewish and Muslim methods of ritual slaughter, the Parliament press office said.

It must now go to the Senate for a vote, which will likely happen in September, press officer Leon Van Schie told CNN.

The Dutch Party for the Animals proposed closing a loophole in the Dutch law that allows Jews and Muslims to kill animals that have not been anesthetized first.

"The Party for the Animals believes that freedom of religion must end where animal suffering begins," leader Marianne Thieme wrote on her blog before the measure went to a vote Tuesday.

Stunning animals before butchering is not allowed by Jewish or Muslim law.

David Zwartz, the chairman of the Wellington Jewish Council, fought successfully against a similar proposal in New Zealand last year.

He said that for Jews, the Dutch measure would be "an attack on their freedom to practice their religion in a way that they have done for thousands of years."

He compared the proposal to Nazi-era laws.

"The banning of shechita was introduced as an anti-Jewish law by the Nazis in Germany three months after they came into power in 1933," said Zwartz, using the Hebrew word for Jewish ritual slaughter.

"The banning in Nazi German-occupied Poland and the Netherlands was overtly anti-Jewish, " Zwartz said.

"Freedom of religious practice is a hallmark of civilized (and most Western) societies. In New Zealand it is covered by our Bill of Rights Act. For Orthodox Jews, the eating of kosher meat is a central part of their belief," he said.

Britain's Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, traveled to the Netherlands two weeks ago to lobby against the law.

Abdulfettah Ali-Salah, the director of the Halal Correct Certification organization in the Netherlands, argued that Jewish and Muslim methods of slaughter are humane.

"They claim that ritual killing without stunning cause more pain for the animals then with stunning, but I don't agree," he told CNN.

"Many scientists even don't agree, if ritual slaughtering without stunning happens according to the right procedure," he said.

The ban could force Jews and Muslims to get their meat from other countries, he said.

"Many believers, if they are Jewish, Muslim, have to search for other alternatives - probably import from abroad and from Islamic countries," he said.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (259 Responses)
  1. Erky

    Banning the Muslim and Jewish ritual slaughter appears on the surface to be reasonable, however I believe it is far more humane than modern farming methods. It's not just about the slaughter – when you have chickens and pigs crammed into cages, pumped with antibiotics to keep them alive. Most of the time the animals are incorrectly stunned, and start being dismembered whilst fully conscious. The ritual slaughter at least forces an individual to slaughter the animal, one at a time, instead of a conveyor belt. The dietary laws forbid grinding up dead cows and feeding them back to the cows, as the corporate modern farming has done.

    June 28, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
    • Creepy supersti_tions that should have died long ago

      So if the world is cruel, the religion has the right to be every bit as bad, if not worse? Interesting logic.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
    • Muneef

      Erky.

      You are right all unnatural ...take it animal created to eat grass is fed other animal left over flesh, fats and insides..
      Feeding poultry blood&feather feeds... All unnatural causing all today's diseases and illnesses...in the short or long run. Blood is source of all diseases... Second page has my posts about that more detailed.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
    • Sree

      earthlings.com

      June 29, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
  2. Antje

    Evidently mr Schwartz (from 20000km distance) thinks he should play the shoah-card to depict civilized societies as anti-jewish. There are plenty other countries where it is alreay forbidden to slaughter jewish-muslim-style.
    They could easily alter the rules as these have always been man-made. Or why is it that there are no kangaroos in the bible/koran or why didn't mohammed think of the above midsummer-night of the norths when making up the rules for ramadan?

    June 28, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
  3. Just Thinking

    Imagination, dreams, demons–where is reason? Modern religion started in the bronze age and had an update in the dark ages. Look at the animal world they live they die what more is there? Religion only controls the weak minded and funds the lazy.

    June 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Your opinion. Also, reference Ecclesiastes on the spirit of the animal.

      June 28, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
  4. Frank

    Finally justice! Of course the hitler card will be drawn and the comparison with the nazi regime will be made ( is made already), but I believe that all religions still have a phenomenal live in my country! We live in 2011 and the ritual slaughter is by far outdated......every sane person knows this....

    June 28, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
  5. Reality

    Ritual slaughter of animals is just another religious, archaic practice that needs to be abolished. Actually, the followers of both religions should simply leave said religions because all the practices of Judaism and Islam are outdated.

    And said practice gives more credence to the following:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

    June 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
  6. Reality

    Ritual slaughter of animals is just religious, archaic practice that needs to be abolished. Actually, the followers of both religions should simply leave said religions because all the practices of Judaism and Islam are outdated.

    And said practice gives more credence to the following:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

    June 28, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  7. skywalker26

    This is total nonsense. How far can falsehood go to challenge the laws of G-d with nonsense.
    All the people who think ritual slaughter is cruelty are hypocrites of the highest level. Lets see – how many happy animals do we have in a zoo or in your fish bowl. Ever step on a few bugs. The true list of animal cruelty can go on and on. The Torah does not allow any animal cruelty at all. So ritual slaughter is not animal cruelty at all. You angainst G-d if you say it is.

    June 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm |
    • Munitions

      Because the Torah says it's not so it isn't? What century do you live in?

      June 28, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • Paul

      Let me ask you a question.

      If you were born and raised in captivity and then you were to be killed and you could choose one of two ways to die:

      1. Getting your throat cut and experience the pain as you die a slow agonizing way.

      OR

      2. You get a drug which will cause you to feel no pain while you're dying?

      I am sure you will choose the 2nd option. Maybe you should stop talking about the hypocrisy of this debate because religions are THE most hypocritical organizations out of all of them, 99% of their followers sin one way or another, they never follow it entirely.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @skywalker26

      Hey -skywalker...

      You seem to be using a version of the 'argumentum ad absurdum' tactic. In other words, you are attempting to try and point out how wrong and in your 'opinion' (absurd) the arguments are of others here, without offering any proof or backing up your own claim/s.

      I am interested in reading more about 'your' argument and position, not what others are saying.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
  8. Jeshurun

    Hi all and peace unto you. My name is Jeshurun. It has been given to me by God. The Lord has ordained me as one of two end of days witnesses (prophets). In November 2007 God called me. The Lord led me into the mountains of Washington state; before God was done with me I found myself walking down a body of water dragging the soles of my feet along the stones; close to the end of this walk were two witnesses and their dogs; at the end of this walk I was instructed by the Holy Ghost to say this, "it is done". These three words are written twice in the book of Revelation. I did not know that then. The walk lasted from sunrise until sunset. This walk is biblical. May 24 2011 the abomination of desolation was set up. On July 11 2011 blessing will be received. The beast spoken of in the book of Revelation will arise out of Iran. Folks all this that is going on in this world is going to continue to grow worse. It is just as a woman that is travailing with child, until that child is born the pain grows and grows; so shall it be with the sorrows happening in the world now until the Lord Jesus Christ returns the sorrows are going to grow and grow. People, you out there, that have the Lord Jesus Christ in your hearts and in your lifes you will fare these times just fine, stand on that rock and refuse to step off; continue in your faith and press into the word of God. Those of you out there that do not have Jesus in your lifes I beg of you to seek him out. He is quick to hear and quick to heal. Those of you out there that refuse to believe in God and his Christ I am so very sorry, but you have been deceived, but remember this when things are so bad all hope is lost call out his name. Our God is a merciful God and you will be saved...walk in Christ...I love you all, God loves you more...watch and pray always....our redemption is at the doors...
    Jeshurun

    June 28, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • Peace2All

      Did these 2 witnesses happen to snap any 'picts' of this miraculous walk of yours...?

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 4:27 pm |
    • Paul

      You've done a bit too much crack.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
    • wjs

      Okay, Jeshurun, get back to me on July 12, 2011 and tell me about the blessing. Oh, yeah. Post pics as well. I might consider believing you then.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
    • Sree

      I saw this same post in other links. You go around copy pasting the same stuff, Jobless, or getting paid for this?

      June 29, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
  9. Henk

    What a great day. Any Muslims and Jews who don`t like this, Please LEAVE the Netherlands. We will NOT miss you.

    June 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Thank goodness no one really cares what you think or decided to give you any real power to put your opinions into action.

      June 28, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Henk

      Your kindness and overt bigotry is overwhelming !

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Lycidas Well, Christians were ready to throw a bunch of fellow Christians out of America for not playing or singing the national anthem before ball games the other day. Good thing THEY don't have any real power, either, eh?

      June 28, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @John Richardson- Totally agree John. No one's beliefs, whether atheist or Christian, Jewish or Muslim..should effect the rights of others in our nation. I don't know why the anti-religious seem they are being clever when bringing this up.

      June 28, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • wjs

      Assalamu alaikum, Henk. You made me want to visit you in your country, just to make you uncomfortable. Salaams, my brother.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
    • Ted M.

      -Uncouth Swain-
      Equal rights under the law is very clever. Oh, yes.

      If you are blind to what equality means and how it would have to work to be as equal as possible, you would see that your religion does not get a free pass. That is how it is clever.

      Religion becomes limited and must follow secular law in order to give everyone an equal share of equal rights under the law.
      Religious values / laws are not supreme law in this country. That is how the First Amendment works and how it has any force of law at all.
      If any religious value is held to be supreme over our nation's laws, that is a violation of the supremacy of our nation's laws.
      There might not be a specific statute that deals with this other than the passages in the Constltution itself, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to happen in the first place.

      June 29, 2011 at 1:14 am |
    • Ted M.

      -Lycidas-
      Sorry, that post was meant as a response to your post.

      June 29, 2011 at 1:15 am |
    • Lycidas

      @Ted- "If you are blind to what equality means and how it would have to work to be as equal as possible, you would see that your religion does not get a free pass. That is how it is clever. "

      Ummm, duh. I never once said that my faith or anyone's faith gets a free pass on anything.

      "Religion becomes limited and must follow secular law in order to give everyone an equal share of equal rights under the law."

      Yeah..and..what was your point in this? Did I disagree with you somehow?

      "Religious values / laws are not supreme law in this country. That is how the First Amendment works and how it has any force of law at all."

      Never said it was. Again, I don't see what your problem is. I haven't aid anything to disagree.

      "If any religious value is held to be supreme over our nation's laws, that is a violation of the supremacy of our nation's laws.
      There might not be a specific statute that deals with this other than the passages in the Constltution itself, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to happen in the first place."

      Yeah...again, I agree. The only time the govt's laws are suspended from an ndividual's point of view is when the govt tries to take away your rights by the law...such as freedom of religion.

      June 29, 2011 at 9:00 am |
  10. Augure

    I'm half jewish-half arabic. And I'll laugh everytime I see muslim and jews fight, because not only are they of the same race (semite), during History muslims protected jews during the Inquisition, the Pogroms and the Holocaust but also one of the german president said "We must maintain conflict betweens jews and muslims, because together they could easily run the world"

    Both of my brothers, if Israel didn't exist and if muslims were generally more kind to jews there would absolutely no conflict between the two.

    Because obviously white people are the dangerous ones, they are doing the same propaganda they used against jews but this time against islam. And mind you, once they come for the muslim, they will come for jew people as well.
    By the way, Holland is the most raciste country of the world BY FAR

    June 28, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • Paul

      Stop lying man, Holland isn't the most racist country by far at all.

      Only those foreigners who rob, steal and beat up the locals for no reason like to claim so.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
    • Antje

      Yeah, run the world. One of these groups is too lazy to get anything done and always waits for what brings them (=nothing). The other bunch is always getting into a quarrel with loud yelling with themselves and anybody else around them in the world.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
    • Lycidas

      "I see muslim and jews fight, because not only are they of the same race"

      Actually....being Muslim has nothing to do with one's genetics. Also, the term anti-semitic was coined to be used directly toward the Jews. No one until recent times ever included the Arabs in with this term. The term semitic has more to do with those that spoke Semitic languages than anything to do with race.

      June 28, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
    • Dirkje

      Please stay in your semite paradise. Don't leave it for a day and don't accept the fruits of European enterprise. But likely you are not living in the Middle East and certainly you live off the fruits of other people's non-semite labour.

      June 29, 2011 at 2:46 am |
    • Lycidas

      @Dirkje- Psst, the term you would be looking for is semitic and not semite. At least in the manner you are trying to use it.

      June 29, 2011 at 9:02 am |
  11. Buddy R

    Leftists are such loons. They'll fight to defend the "right" of a mother to kill her unborn baby (causing it lots of pain and death) but cry over the pain of an animal. Idiots. It is sad leftists reject freedom of religion.

    June 28, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • vince

      Freedom of religion does not give you the right to be a cause of suffering. Anyone who has been around animals know that animals feel pain like we do, feel fear like we do and feel joy like we do according to the limits of their DNA programming. Letting an animal suffer and bleed to death just so you can follow an outdatted dietary manual based in an age of ignorance is silly. If we're going to be that literal we might as well start stoning people again because that's prescribed in both the OT and Quran.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • Cathy Kayser

      The left is very hypocritical. But the right is also foolish in this respect – they abhor abortion, but think it is fine to have capital punishment and the slaughter of animals! Everyone, from right to left must stop the killing going on – no killing is good.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • nura

      @buddy r
      and what about the loons in the right??
      they will fight for the rights of an unborn unsustainable foetus, but support the death penalty ...

      June 28, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • Rob

      This has nothing to do with left or right but now you mentioned it the current political landscape of the Netherlands is dominated by conservatives. The law mentioned here is was forwarded and sanctioned by the 'right'
      So in plain American: )&*)Y^+#@!~ and educate yourself.... a mule would do a better job...

      June 28, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
  12. @@@

    EVERY TIME YOU SEE THE TROLL POST THE BUTTERFLY – HIT " REPORT ABUSE" IMMEDIATELY. After a while, CNN will block the addresses (s)he uses

    June 28, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • Me

      Gladly.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
  13. Uncouth Swain

    Ok, I got a bit fired up at frist from all the stupidity on here. But for those of you that are calling what the Jews and Muslims do as cruel, do you even know how that perform the killing in question? Or are you just taking believing it's cruel because the article implies cruelty? Do you have any idea how the Dutch kill their animals?
    Let's be honets here...the article is lacking a lot on facts. If you want to go all against cruelty....let the animals go wild and free. Keeping them locked up is cruel. Adjuesting their mating cycles is cruel. Killing them just for our own easy civilization is cruel. Right?

    June 28, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • @@@

      Uncouth Swain. To repeat what I said below (to make it easier for us to continue) Jews and Muslims insist on slitting these animals' throats without their having been anesthetized. Anesthetization provides a simple, humane way to lessen the anxiety and suffering of the beast.

      It is not a lot to ask that, to the extent their primitive belief systems are inconsistent with the lessening of the beasts' pain, they be subordinated to common human decency.

      Their resistance to this minimal step speaks volumes about the ability of religion to cause people to act in irrational ways that they never would outside the purview of their beliefs.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • Stevie7

      I think you raise some good points and yeah, the article is more than lacking on facts and background info. Since I have no desire to research dutch standards for the processing of meat, I'm taking things at face value. So, let's throw the nazi card out, since I think we can all assume that the nazi's didn't have animal cruelty in mind when they banned jewish butchering methods. Now, I'm definitely an omnivore, so I'm not against raising and slaughtering animals for meat. In general I think that given the option between two slaughtering methods one should choose the method that, on average, is the most humane. Religious arguments shouldn't factor in at all.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Stevie7- Thank you, another opinion that I can respect. Unlike many others on here.

      It is kind of difficult to be an omnivore and be too against the killing of animals isn't it? I think the PETA ppl are the only ones that could actually stand firmly for no cruelty in any way.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Stevie7

      Uncouth Swain,

      "It is kind of difficult to be an omnivore and be too against the killing of animals isn't it?" Indeed it is. I once drove by a slaughter house near the Kansas-Colorado border. That was one disturbing site. I didn't stop me from having a burger the next evening. Hypocrite? Maybe. But it was a really good burger.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Stevie7- Lol....yeah. My example would be my family when they hunt deer or squirrels. I don't like it, but it doesn't mean that dinner didn't taste good.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Juggling Squirrel-Jesus

      Uncouth Swain – may you and your family burn in rodent hell for all eternity.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Lol..Now now...I rather be more specific and instead of rodent call them Sciuridae.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Uncouth Swain Ask anyone well versed in animal welfare issues and you will find out that the PeTA gang is a pack of hypocrites. In an age when animal shelters are doing all they can to reduce euthanasia rates, PeTA runs their shelter in Virginia as a death camp. They also "aid" other shelter by making it easier to kill more animals. They've done a lot of that in places like North Carolina. People associated with PeTA's push to euthanize shelter animals even were convicted of cruelty. Read No Kill Nation's and Animal People's critiques of PeTA. As someone who is haunted by euthanasia decisions I've had to make, I don;t pretend that there are any easy answers. But some things are simply beyond the pale and PeTA has been guilty of more than a few of them.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @John Richardson- I just cited Peta because they tend be the most well know organization on such issues here in N. America. But you are right on their hypocracy.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • Juggling Squirrel-Jesus

      You go ahead and tell that to Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      June 28, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Juggling Squirrel-Jesus- Afriad he got dizzy running his wheel of torment.

      And let's be honest their is a war of the cute going on between the Muridae and the Sciuridae.

      June 28, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
  14. Woody

    I hope this starts a worldwide trend. Religious freedom only goes so far. It's hard to believe that people, who are supposed to be religious leaders, condone torturing their god's supposed creations. Tradition is, and always will be, the enemy of progress. I hope these people rot in their mythical hell. Of course they won't, they'll just be dead.

    June 28, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "condone torturing"

      Who the heck has said that? The only thing mythical here is this foolish notion that their is a painless way to kill a cow. What do you think they do? Let the cow get comfy, give it a little something to make it fall asleep....then they hack it all up?

      June 28, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Woody

      Uncouth Swain, try reading the article again.

      "Stunning animals before butchering is not allowed by Jewish or Muslim law."

      June 28, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Woody- Stunning them is not the same as being unconcious. I would guess that the animals are still aware at some level of what is happening to them.

      It would be like a lawyer telling a jury, "You can't find my client fully guilty. He didn't kill the other man till after he took a stun gun to him. You got to consider that right?"

      June 28, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
  15. Peace2All

    Often some of the religious wonder why some of us, that don't believe in the world-views, beliefs, and rituals of organized religion have a problem. In some cases the beliefs and rituals are 'fairly' harmless, and in other cases... they are, IMHO very abusive and harmful.

    Causing unwarranted suffering and cruelty upon animals, because of some old mythical beliefs, is where said 'beliefs' and 'rituals' begin to cross the line of becoming ... 'insane.'

    This, I believe, is just -'one'- of those instances.

    Does your God truly give a rat's a-ss about how you kill your food...?

    To use the 'religious freedom' argument to justify cruelty is just absolutel unbelievable.

    Regards,

    Peace...

    June 28, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Colin

      Hey Peace, well said.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      I can at least agree with you line of thinking Peace. Ppl should not be cruel for any reason.
      I just hope the Dutch are doing this because of the concept of what they feel is cruel instead of their view being directed because they don't care for a certain religion.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Colin

      Thanks mate !

      Peace...

      ------------

      @Uncouth Swain

      You Said: "I can at least agree with you(r) line of thinking Peace. Ppl should not be cruel for any reason."

      Yeah, I think that's what I'm going for here. I know there is a lot of debate around this issue, but for sure... we are in agreement on this.

      You Said: "I just hope the Dutch are doing this because of the concept of what they feel is cruel instead of their view being directed because they don't care for a certain religion."

      I agree with you here too.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
  16. GSA

    I'm all for the the humane treatment and killing of animals for consumption and agree with this law but it is only being looked at because of the hate for Muslims in this country. There is a lot of torture and mis-treatement of animals and humans right here in North America, I mean I've seen some horrible hunting practices that cause extreme pain to the animal yet no one seems to care too much.
    Just like all the crazies saying it is a religuous rule to kill the animals in this inhumane way, there are also just as many wackos who are only speaking up because they are against these 2 religions. I mean we slice off the end of a babies penis (foreskin) daily in Canada and the US, no big deal right?

    June 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @GSA

      Hey -GSA... i hope that you are doing well.

      You Said: "I'm all for the the humane treatment and killing of animals for consumption and agree with this law but it is only being looked at because of the hate for Muslims in this country."

      Are you sure about that...? This law does mention jews as well. So, does that mean that it is now about hate for muslim's...and...jews...?

      It seems to me that we have laws that at least approach some kind of humane slaughtering of animals. We certainly have a long way to go, but to say that these laws are about hatred of muslims... i'm not so sure.

      It's possible that you are right, ...however... if the laws cause less suffering for animals then I'm for it.

      You Said: "There is a lot of torture and mis-treatement of animals and humans right here in North America, I mean I've seen some horrible hunting practices that cause extreme pain to the animal yet no one seems to care too much."

      You are right about that. And... there 'are' a lot of people that 'do' care about these said inhumane hunting practices.

      You Said: "Just like all the crazies saying it is a religuous rule to kill the animals in this inhumane way, there are also just as many wackos who are only speaking up because they are against these 2 religions."

      ..."Just as many"...? Maybe... Or, possibly it is as much about the 'cruel' slaughtering which is based on ancient tribal rituals by these religions.

      You Said: "I mean we slice off the end of a babies penis (foreskin) daily in Canada and the US, no big deal right?"

      I think IMHO these are 'insane' religious practices too.

      Again, -GSA... I hope that you are doing well, and Canada is treating you well.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Actually, there have been quite a few initiatives in North America concerning the treatment of farm animals. These initiatives have actually tended to split the animal rights community between realists and idealists, I suppose you could say. The realists say that we can make real inroads against real suffering with these initiatives. The idealists say that supporting laws for the keeping and killing of farm animals means that you implicitly condone the keeping and killing of farm animals. For various reasons I won't go into now, I do not identify with the animal rights community at all. And as an animal welfare advocate whose politics tend to bend towards the pragmatic in many cases, I side with the realists here.

      June 28, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @GSA

      Hey -GSA...

      Sorry about my OCD... I just 'had' to bring your post from page 2 back under this thread, where it belongs. Sorry ! In therapy for this, but obviously not helping. LOL 😀 !

      BTW--Glad to hear all is well with you in Canada land. Say hi to -HotAirAce for me !

      Regards,

      Peace...

      You Said: "@Peace2All – great post. Nice to hear from you again, all is well in Edmonton, hope things are good for you?
      I agree with your stance completely, I think I was just trying to get the point across that this is an issue all around the World but this instance involving Muslims (and Jews as well) is great for headlines and getting hits so that is why it is being talked about on CNN. Although they are here to get the news out that ppl want to talk about so I guess it's just their form of supply and demand.

      I feel hypocritical at times, I love animals and do not want to cause harm to any animal yet I love all types of meat....especially beef, BBQ burgers, YUMMY! "

      June 28, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
  17. Colin

    Jews play the "Hitler card" with the same gay aboandon as black politicians charged with corruption in the USA play the race card. Not buying it. Cruelty to animals cannot be condoned based on the supposed wishes of some hokey Bronze Age sky-fairy.

    June 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Have you enjoyed your hamburger today? Have you ever seen what we do in the US with our cattle?
      The whole Nazi angle isn't a "card"...it's what happened. This ban is either: a direct attack upon a certain religious group of ppl or a genuine concern for animal's well being. Maybe it's a bit of both, who knows. But from experience I know that the manner that Jewish ppl kill their livestock is actually quicker than some other methods out there that we use.

      "Bronze Age sky-fairy"

      Wow..thank goodness no one believes in that.

      June 28, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
    • Colin

      UncouthSwain. To the extent the USA is killing them cruely, I would oppose that too, but that is not the subject of the article. The "Nazi angle" as you call it is a total card, an attempt to get an emotional reaction to something he opposes by invoking Nazi Germany. Happens all the time, and is a worn, obviously flawed argument.

      I don't quite follow your comment on my characterization of the Judeo-Christian-Islam god(s).

      June 28, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "I don't quite follow your comment on my characterization of the Judeo-Christian-Islam god(s)."

      You didn't make a characterization about God...you went on babbling about a fey from around 1000BCE.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Uncouth Swain

      Hey -USwain...

      You Said: "But from experience I know that the manner that Jewish ppl kill their livestock is actually quicker than some other methods out there that we use."

      Interesting... I have seen and heard that 'Shechitah' can be humane, but quite often is actually more brutal, as it is often 'not' done correctly, which can lead to even more needless suffering for animals.

      I hope that you are doing well...

      Regards,

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Afternoon Peace,

      "Hey -USwain..."
      ????

      "I have seen and heard that 'Shechitah' can be humane, but quite often is actually more brutal, as it is often 'not' done correctly, which can lead to even more needless suffering for animals."

      That can be said about anyone not trained properly on something. I've also seen a cow get shot in the head 4 times here in the US for butchering and it still wasn't dead yet. I would guess that person wasn't trained properly. But if done correctly it can be quite quick.

      I hope that you are doing well...

      ...same to you.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Uncouth Swain

      "Hey USwain".... Sometimes I shorten the -moniker- when I greet someone, to save time on the full spelling. That's it. No meaning behind it.

      "I have seen and heard that 'Shechitah' can be humane, but quite often is actually more brutal, as it is often 'not' done correctly, which can lead to even more needless suffering for animals."

      You Said: "That can be said about anyone not trained properly on something. I've also seen a cow get shot in the head 4 times here in the US for butchering and it still wasn't dead yet. I would guess that person wasn't trained properly. But if done correctly it can be quite quick."

      Of course-agreed, I was merely responding to your comment about the jews and the way they kill their animals, being "quicker" which I was assuming implies more 'humane'. My concern is 'what' is the best, and most humane way to kill our animals for food...? If methods are used that cause seemingly 'more' agony and pain in the name of 'religious freedom' then, I'm not so good with that, as I stated above. I'm not o.k. with 'any' methods that cause more 'agony' and 'pain' to animals actually, in the name of religion or religious rituals or not.

      Thank you for your well-wishes.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      June 28, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Peace2All- Ah..ok (on the name shortening)

      Ah..ok (on the rest).

      Your welcome btw 🙂

      June 28, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
  18. TheRationale

    What? Nazi-era legislation? What sort of self-righteous morons are protesting this ban? It's a ban against gross mistreatment of animals. No, being Jewish does not grant you the license to label anyone who disagrees with you a Nazi.

    June 28, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Do you even know what this "mistreatment" is? Do you know how the aminals you consume died?
      And what is all this Jewish stuff, it effects Muslims too. Quit being so unreasonably biased.

      June 28, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Paul

      So jews pulling out the Nazi card, the muslims the race card, no biggie, happens all the time in the Netherlands. Somehow they're always the victims.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • TheRationale

      @Uncouth

      I'm not being unreasonably biased. The Muslims just don't go prosti-tuing their unfortunate past across their political agenda whenever they don't get their way. Although that's essentially because they don't have a parallel situation. They do get incredibly defensive and petty and all "offended" and then occasionally violent, though, if you're looking for me to cover all my bases so I don't seem like I'm biased.

      And it seems that you're saying that because other animals are mistreated, that gives license to others to do the same. I'll assume you don't actually care about the animals either way but really about what seems "fair" to certain interest groups. I mean if they were trying to tell corporations to treat their livestock better your argument would be "Well the Jews and Muslims can mistreat their animals, why can't we?" While it'd be nice to just fix everything at once, you have to start somewhere.

      June 28, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "The Muslims just don't go prosti-tuing their unfortunate past across their political agenda whenever they don't get their way"

      Do you watch anything on the Palestinians?

      "And it seems that you're saying that because other animals are mistreated, that gives license to others to do the same."

      No, I am just pointing out that those who are ranting about what the Muslims and Jews are doing...are the same ppl that are probably enjoying a hamburger from a cow that got shot in the head four times and butchered while still alive.

      As for my position on how animals are killed, I do not and never have supported cruelty, whatever that really means is up to the reader I guess. But this topic isn't just about animals...if it was then it wouldn't be in the religious section. If their are those that are just doing this to hurt the Jews or Muslims...then they are wrong. But if they are doing this out of real concern for animals...then it makes more sense and should include all killing of animals in their fight against cruelty. That would be the logical step for these groups right?

      June 28, 2011 at 8:52 pm |
  19. marisol

    Wow any surprises here? it's Europe by the way. very secular, anti-religion, anti-semitic going back to Hitler's time
    and laws comes natural; then people wonder why probably Holland is looking more and more close
    to be hit by a great natural disaster just like iceland and nearby nordic lands.....
    Make life miserable , hard , diificult or be against Israel /bible laws and G-d will take things in His hands.

    June 28, 2011 at 1:07 pm |
    • Colin

      What nonsense. Europe allows Jews and Muslims to practice their silly superst.itions freely, and indeed has laws to protect them. This is an animal rights issue. To the extent that Jewsish or Muslim customs pass over from harmless rituals to actually harming other living thigs, they should be banned.

      June 28, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • Stevie7

      So what excuse do you make when a natural disaster strikes a predominantly Christian area? I mean the South, probably the most religious area in the US, is constantly getting hammered with hurricanes, floods, and tornadoes. Is god just sadistic? And what about when a hurricane forms and dies in the ocean without it ever doing anything to anyone? Is god just practicing?

      And if god is all about punishing those that, in your view, persecute Christians, why didn't he wipe the Roman Empire of the face of the earth in the first few centuries after he graced us with his presence? I mean, its not like the dutch are feeding jews to the lions or anything.

      June 28, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Colin

      You said: "To the extent that Jewsish or Muslim customs pass over from harmless rituals to actually harming other living thigs, they should be banned."

      Well said.

      Cheers!

      June 28, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Colin-"This is an animal rights issue."

      Is it? Are you sure that it's not something more? And come on...animal rights. Why don't you just shut down all farms that raise animals. So you think animals have the right to a "painless" death, as far as you know what painless is.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
    • Colin

      Uncouth Swain. Jews and Muslims insist on slitting these animals' throats without their having been anesthetized. Anesthetization provides a simple, humane way to lessen the anxiety and suffering of the beast.

      It is not a lot to ask that, to the extent their primitive belief systems are inconsistent with the lessening of the beasts' pain, they be subordinated to common human decency.

      Their resistance to this minimal step speaks volumes about the ability of religion to cause people to act in irrational ways that they never would outside the purview of their beliefs.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Colin, how about that if the subject is about the methods being used are cruel...you stick with that. Using this topic as a way to voice your opinions about a certain religion is quite dirty.

      Heck..I don't like any of the methods we in the secular world use to kill animals anymore than in a religious world. But I question how many on here really care about the animals in quuestion and how many just want to use the topic to voice their hatred for a certain faith.

      June 28, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Paul

      The Dutch created their own land when they raised it from the sea. Not only are they giants, they're also their own gods.

      No surprise that the Louisiana has contacted Dutch engineers to help with building a waterworks in case of a Katrina-like-type of hurricane again. The Dutch specialize in waterworks.

      June 28, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
  20. Bippy, the Lesser Squirrel God of Pi$$ing Off Religious Nutters

    Now watch all the religious fruitcakes come out in favor of cruelty because cruelty is a religious tradition.

    June 28, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      You don't even know what they are talking about. How does a Muslim or Jewish person kill their livestock? Do you even know?

      June 28, 2011 at 2:12 pm |
    • Bippy, the Lesser Squirrel God of Pi$$ing Off Religious Nutters

      See! There's one now!

      June 28, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      You dolt....you could wait till I actually say if I support it or not. Leave it to a simpleton to jump the gun to pat himself on the back. You probably end up shooting yourself.

      June 28, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • Bippy, the Lesser Squirrel God of Pi$$ing Off Religious Nutters

      Big swing and a miss, Uncouth Swine. By the time that had been posted, you had already made your position very clear.

      But your just here for the sport cruelty or it all. The facts really don't matter to you at all.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      I think a line drive must have hit you in the head. I have never said anything to support cruelty. But hey..continue to lie, it seems to suit you Dippy.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
    • Best to ignore nitwits

      Ah, don't mind our little uncouth, Bippy.. He's just a lonely old white curmudgeon with no friends, so he comes here and makes a fool of himself with his spittle-spewing rage and tangled non-thinking.

      There are much better ways to spend your time, squirrel-guy. There are few worse.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:34 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      Thank you Bippy....oh, I mean "Best to ignore nitwits", your foolish post has been noticed. Bet you feel so good about yourself now. Go treat yourself to a cookie.

      But it is sad when I get falsely accused of something and tell a person that they are wrong...and then they can't accept it and make up new user names. Oh well.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:51 pm |
    • Bippy, the Lesser Squirrel God of Pi$$ing Off Religious Nutters

      Not me. Sorry.

      June 28, 2011 at 7:56 pm |
    • Best to ignore nitwits

      Always let the dingbat have the last word, Bippy.

      June 28, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Best to ignore nitwits- You might want to wait more than four minutes before commenting from your other user name. And your last comment...so elementary. What did you do, just join the internet community last week? But thank you for your response on the topic....oh that's right, you didn't.

      June 28, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • Heh

      @Bippy
      Wow! I am impressed! That was like teasing a rabid dog so that it chews its own legs off and glares in all direction as it dies in it's own filth.
      Well, sorta anyway. 😈

      June 29, 2011 at 2:08 am |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @Heh- Yeah..except it's not anything like that at all. But thanks for playing, I love it when you ppl try to declare some kind of victory when you ahven't done anything that a middle school kid could do. Priceless 🙂

      But seriously, if you and those using multiple usernames can pull yourselves together...what I dared asked was if you knew how the Jews and Muslims kill their livestock. Heck, if you've been reading the above comments you should have the resources now to figure it out if you really cared.

      June 29, 2011 at 9:06 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.