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Atheists flying ad campaign meets strong resistance
June 30th, 2011
06:41 PM ET

Atheists flying ad campaign meets strong resistance

By Katie Glaeser, CNN

(CNN)–It's a battle of belief - and the right not to believe - in a country founded on freedom.

"I'm a patriotic American. I served my country. I get out there and celebrate the Fourth, too," Blair Scott, who calls himself a proud atheist, proclaimed.

"This America belongs to everyone."

Blair, the communications director for the New Jersey-based American Atheists, said atheists in the United States often feel alienated and face accusations of being anti-American because of their lack of belief in God.

To combat those notions, his group is using Independence Day to say atheists love their country, too.

But the way they're spreading their message might have Americans looking to the sky this Fourth of July and finding something besides fireworks to stir emotion.

Planes with banners that read "God-LESS America" or "Atheism is Patriotic" will be flying over 27 states on Monday. While people might be leery to see the messages overhead, the $23,000 campaign has had a struggle with those who are supposed to bring it to life.

Justin Jaye of Fly Signs Aerial Advertising, who is orchestrating the flights for American Atheists, said out of the 85 people in the country who fly these sign-pulling planes only about 17 have agreed to fly the messages.

"I've been in this business for 20 years and I've never run into so much resistance on people flying," Jaye said. "I've had pilots who are actual atheists who said, 'Justin, I am an atheist and I won't fly it because I can't wear a bulletproof vest.'"

Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, says the reaction to the organization's campaign before it takes off shows how much work the group still needs to do. "This is a clear reminder of why we need to keep fighting because the bigotry against us is so thick that a lot of the pilots are afraid to fly our banners," he said.

Jaye said while some feared for their lives, others feared for their marriages. He had one pilot say his wife would divorce him if he made the flight.

Red Calvert, a pilot and president of Pro-Air Enterprises in Indianapolis, said his reasons to decline the flight were based on his personal beliefs.

"I respect our country and I respect our churches and we've got enough problems in our country without stirring up some more," he said. "If those people want to do something they believe in, fine, just don't include me."

The American Atheists hope to draw attention and spur public discussion through their campaign on Monday.

"It's going to remind people that atheism is at that ballgame and at that beach and at that parade. We are patriotic people," Silverman said.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Atheism • Belief • New Jersey • Religious liberty • United States

soundoff (2,835 Responses)
  1. Bruce

    I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. Atheists don't,– OK.
    I live a full life and am happy. If atheists feel they live a full life and are happy –OK.
    Atheists think I'm wrong for believing–OK. I think atheist have it wrong, still, OK
    If atheists are right and I'm wrong, what have I lost? I still have a good life, am happy and have hope for eternity.
    If I'm right and atheists are wrong, what are they going to lose?

    July 4, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • John

      Pascal's wager : look it up. If I "live my life for Jesus" I 've given up a LOT. Firstly, my own control of my beliefs. To believe something out of fear is not a good way to go about it. If I told you that if you didn't give me 10,000$ a meteor would hit you, it would be the same thing. Based solely on consequences (meteor death) you should give me the money. But you probably don't believe that there is a meteor. I, similarly , don't believe in your hell or your God.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • Bruce

      John,
      Your argument – Pascal's wager, is not, to me, valid. I did not say I have given up control of my beliefs. They are still MY beliefs. What I believe in. Secondly, my beliefs are not based upon fear, but on a desire for something good. Not a fear of hell, but a desire to go to Heaven –yea, I believe in heaven too.
      Third, you assume that simply because you say "give me $10,000 or a meteor will hit you" that I will believe you. Why? I give you no quarter in my life. I've seen nothing from you that makes me think even for a moment that you have the power to "call down a meteor on my head". And why would you do that anyway? For your own gain?
      You John, do not have to believe in God. As for my choice ,I do believe in God. I'd like to tell you to keep an open mind– you just might be surprised someday.
      For the record, a meteor is something that does not hit anything except the atmosphere. A meteorite is what strikes something –such as the Earth–or a person! So, no, I'm not worried about you hitting me with a meteor.

      Bruce

      July 4, 2011 at 10:08 pm |
    • TJ

      Bruce, your response sums up the Atheist stance fairly well. I'll use your same argument to state the Atheist stance.

      "You assume that simply because you (or a preacher, or a book) say "believe in God or go to Hell (or miss out on Heaven)" that I will believe you. I've seen nothing from God that makes me think even for a moment that He has the power to send me to Heaven or Hell, or that he even exists at all. And why would He send me to Hell for not believing in him anyway? For his own gain?"

      There, I think that makes it pretty clear.

      July 4, 2011 at 11:26 pm |
    • Popes IsA Jerk

      Without fear, there would be no christianity. Pretend as you wish, that is fact.

      More importantly, teaching children about religion is teaching them to lie. That is unless you tell them the truth 'God can not be proven, nor can jesus..'

      I

      July 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • Bruce

      TJ,
      That is the whole idea of faith!

      Popes...,
      #1 What are you afraid of? #2, Merely your opinion.

      July 9, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
  2. Opie

    Isn't a belief in nothing, a belief in something?

    Just sayin'...

    July 4, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
    • Popes IsA Jerk

      Nope.

      July 5, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
  3. L

    Said:
    Oren

    Never met an athiest that didn't like me and told me so in no uncertain terms. Met the Big Kahuna of athiests, Mad(alyn) Murray O'Hair herself. Never met a more disagreeable, rude, ignorant, profane human being ever. Her grandchildren were just like her. She went to an acid barrel heaven. She brought it on herself with her bad habits of only hiring known criminals.

    God only talks with those who believe, those who don't have their own version and can't understand why the silence. They'll get their reward. From nothing to nothing and then sit in darkness for eternity and rue the day they refused to listen.

    July 4, 2011 at 8:25 pm | Report abuse |

    How come these holy rollers can't spell a simple word like "atheist", but they have unshakeable bigotry towards them?

    July 4, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
  4. Oren

    To believe in nothing and feel so proud. It takes more faith than I can have. It makes no sense, ever. No one will force anyone to believe and that's just what they want, someone to force them. Ain't going to happen. There is a reward for such a foolish stance.

    July 4, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
    • mike here

      oren says "There is a reward for such a foolish stance."

      lemme guess ...hell right? i am going to propose that hitler is in heaven right now. he confessed his sins and god forgave him. of course, all the hindus and sikhs are in hell ( you hope) becuase they had a "foolish stance". your are so positive with your tripe about eternal punishment,huh?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:35 pm |
    • Louie

      I talked to a protester once who was yelling in public about how his kid could not read the Bible in the public school of which he was attending. He stated that public schools should be open to discussion including religion as they are place of learning and debate. When I suggested that such a concept would be a great idea if the Koran, the Torah and other religious texts were to be discussed in the same nature on an equal basis, the protester began to have a huge fit. I waited patiently for the protester to end his tirade after I which I said: "That is why religion is not discussed in public schools. Thank you for proving my point." His response? He told me to go to hell.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Louie, do you judge all those of Faith by this guy you encountered? I would say that it would not be a problem but that maybe all the schools should teach is ABCs and 123s. While we are fighting out social issues in our schools other countries are bypassing us because they spend more of their student's time dealing with things that are on the S.A.T.s.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Louie

      I have heard many people of many faiths and I have no judged those people in any fashion. When I was told to go to hell by that protester, I was thoroughly amused. I'm sure outside of his belief system, that he was a good person. As for the public schools, I agree with you about the ABC's and 123's but evolution is fact and not a social argument. It belongs there.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:32 pm |
  5. Niki

    I find that atheists are generally the most ethical people, and they do it all on their own. If you need a trustworthy, honest, clear-thinking friend, an atheist is your best bet. I think that most intelligent people do not believe in any god, but people are afraid to say so because some Christians can be so crazy and scary.

    July 4, 2011 at 8:27 pm |
    • Oren

      Never met Madalyn Murray O'Hair did you? I did. Rude, profane, arrogant, lying, cheating, robber, she had a hideway in New Zealand all set up until one of her criminals she hired found out about it and gave her an acid baptism. Google it.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:30 pm |
  6. Tom Kelly

    There is only one true church. The Church of the Jolly Green Giant. Repent Sinner and bless The Beanstalk.

    July 4, 2011 at 8:23 pm |
    • Oren

      And you have Orange Juice for the sacrament. Fool.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
    • mike here

      i know you like the idea of god being a punisher huh Oren? god comin down and burnin all those sinners up while good kin-folk like you sit back and watch the show. and you will be in heaven for the next 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years doing what?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
    • Muneef

      Tom.

      You should have said there is only one true God....creator of universe that we know and didn't know...

      July 5, 2011 at 6:13 am |
  7. Zach

    I don't understand the arrogance of outspoken atheists. As a Duke student pursing a PhD, I happen to be very religious. I have faith in the Torah just as I have faith in science. We often forget that science assumes that what our we observe is 'truth'. If we were all to disappear tomorrow, would there necessarily be quarks, leptons, or the Earth? Despite atheists' faith in science, science could all be nothing but a figment of our imaginations.

    What bothers me is when atheists challenge and demean religious people. For those who can't conjure an answer to 'How could kangaroos have gotten to Noah's Ark?' atheist propaganda can be hurtful, taking away exactly what gives these people comfort. Hell, I generally interpret Books 2-5 literally, leaving Genesis to the Toledot Theory (but accepting the possibility that it's complete fact). There really is no contradiction. Have the modesty to be agnostic rather than atheist, for if G-d exists, you owe your life to Him and ought to take a minute and say, "If You're out there, thanks for giving me life".

    If people are happy, let them be.

    July 4, 2011 at 8:21 pm |
    • Eric

      @zack

      How is saying "atheists are patriotic" are an attack? These planes are just expressing their (lack of) belief – and never said anything about Jews or Christians or anyone else. The fact that you feel this "attacks" your faith say far more about you than it says about them.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • Saynt Yoasarry-un

      Uh, "faith in science"???????? niiiice. Oh, I see that you are "pursing" a PHD at Duke? in what? spelling? critical thinking? Hit the books harder. Do find Outspoken Xtians or M****ms to be more or less arrogant than outspoken aethists???

      "faith in science"?!?!?!? very niiiiiice.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • Oren

      Athiests believe in NOTHING. They say so. So their message is trash people who believe. Not a defense but rather offense. Hard to sell nothing as a belief system.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
    • Louie

      Maybe when the Pope opens the coffers of the Church and gives away everything it has right down to the Vatican itself to feed the poor, hungry and the suffering in the name of Jesus Christ the MAN than maybe I will give you a minute or to say that you have something worth believing in. Other than that, I am more likely to follow the words of Gandhi.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
  8. James Black

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGZGFdTPQg&w=640&h=360]
    .

    July 4, 2011 at 7:32 pm |
    • Muneef

      That was nice and comforting thank you...although wonder which three rivers that was all about?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
  9. Ghoulslime

    God is Santa for adults. There is no god, and there was no Jesus. Get over it already! http://ravingatheists.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16087

    July 4, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • Muneef

      That's how you want it to be my friend but it isn't that way...God is true Moses, Jesus & Muhammed were true...!

      July 4, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
    • Vanbotchalizm

      UM...Jesus was an actual person, whether he's coming back to say hello is still up for debate. If God indeed is Santa. For adults, let them believe in it. You don't take Santa away from children...well unless you're a heartless pain in the ass.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:24 pm |
    • Muneef

      In Islam we learn that Jesus will come back to free the world from filth and injustice..
      Who would want to take Santa away when it gives a spark of hope and happiness to many childrens and adults,bring the families and friends close... So it is a nice thing to maintain.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
  10. Muneef

    Real Worship in Islam ;

    The concept of worship in Islam is misunderstood by many people including some Muslims. Worship is commonly taken to mean performing ritualistic acts such as prayers, fasting, charity, etc. This limited understanding of worship is only one part of the meaning of worship in Islam. That is why the traditional definition that includes almost everything in any individual's activities. The definition goes something like this, "Worship is an all inclusive term for all that Gods love of external and internal sayings and actions of a person." In other words, worship is everything one says or does for the pleasure of Allah. This, of course, includes rituals as well as beliefs, social activities, and personal contributions to the welfare of one's fellow human beings.

     [5:2] You shall cooperate in matters of righteousness and piety; do not cooperate in matters that are sinful and evil. You shall observe GOD. GOD is strict in enforcing retribution.

    http://islam4all.com/concept_of_worship_in_islam.htm

    July 4, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
  11. Matt

    Here is my parting question. As we observe the wonderful color blasts of the fireworks this evening. As yourself, "Did those fireworks evolve or were they the product of creation? 😉

    July 4, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • Matt 2

      What a pathetic attempt at trying to make a non-existent point.

      July 4, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • sbk

      So basically... humans, animals, and plants are like fireworks?

      Do fireworks self-replicate or reproduce by itself? Nope, didn't think so.

      July 4, 2011 at 7:25 pm |
    • theindfla

      so... God made fireworks?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:05 pm |
    • Sb...what?!?!?!

      So sbk...since you include animals in your response, does your religion think animals go to heaven? Yeah, that's what I thought. You can shut up now.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:52 pm |
    • ClayManBob

      "So sbk...since you include animals in your response, does your religion think animals go to heaven? Yeah, that's what I thought. You can shut up now."

      Actually, there is nothing in the Bible that says that animals do not have souls, or do not go to Heaven. Your turn to shut up about something that you know nothing about.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
  12. Ricardo

    I'm an atheist and as such I can't say I respect religion; all the non-sense and ignorance it spreads makes me sick (although I must say I also laugh about it from time to time). However, I also realize that "god believers" are blinded by years and years of lies and that to change one mind, that mind first must allow itself to question dogmas to realize that their holy book is nothing more but a collection of stories which were written in an attempt to control the masses.

    Religions are about making up supernatural stories (aka lies); atheism is about truth by means of science.

    Yes, there is still a (tiny) possibility that there is a creator of everything, but science has proven time and time again that gods are man created and not the other way around.

    July 4, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • Heath

      Oh please! When are atheists going to come up with some new lines and new arguments?! These arguments are simply do not stand up to historical or academic scrutiny but they keep getting trotted out like a bad case of Chinese whispers. They sound like a temper tantrum or smugness from a minority who seem themselves as enlightened and everyone else as brainless bimbos. Evolve a brain.

      July 4, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
    • The Truth

      Atheists only ask to prove it, witrhout question. You have a problem with that. The religious claim god, heaven and such. Just prove it. That simple. If you are unable to, then it is not fact. However you must prove it now, not with tainted agendas of primitive writings..

      July 4, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      T.T. – The burden of the proof is most often with the person making the claim and more often than not at places such as this the first strike goes to the Atheist because they are often the first out of the gate declaring that there is not a God.

      So, bring your proof and I will bring mine....when we both arrive empty handed then we can shake hands and peace can begin 🙂

      July 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm |
    • Carol H (AL)

      Here's proof that religion is nothing but hot air – 100 percent lack of proof of any, and I mean any, god's existence.
      An overwhelming lack of proof shows that there is no god. Overwhelming. Lack. Of proof. Is proof.
      Now, Mark, we all know you were just bluffing. Or are you the first person in the history of the world to have actual proof of your god's existence?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:13 pm |
    • Oren

      Never met an athiest that didn't like me and told me so in no uncertain terms. Met the Big Kahuna of athiests, Mad(alyn) Murray O'Hair herself. Never met a more disagreeable, rude, ignorant, profane human being ever. Her grandchildren were just like her. She went to an acid barrel heaven. She brought it on herself with her bad habits of only hiring known criminals.

      God only talks with those who believe, those who don't have their own version and can't understand why the silence. They'll get their reward. From nothing to nothing and then sit in darkness for eternity and rue the day they refused to listen.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
    • Pietro

      many people suffer from delusions. that is, unless your delusion is about christ, then your are a normal people 🙂
      i guess religious nutjobs would prefer a surgeon who studied a bible as opposed to one who studied an actual science, right ?

      July 4, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Hi Carol : Thereis lack of proof that he does not exist as well. If you want me to allow yours, you have to allow me mine. 🙂

      Sorry Carol, just as Atheist are growing braver, I am just one of the growing number of Faithful who are waiting on them to bring me proof that there is not a God. Until then, Peace be upon you my sister 🙂

      July 4, 2011 at 8:45 pm |
    • Dante DAnthony

      @ Carol. " Overwhelming. Lack. Of proof. Is proof." Uhhh. Actually, no. It doesn't mean anything, one way or the other. The ancient Greeks postulated atomic theory, but they lacked the tools to test it beyond the most rudimentary concept. Overwhelming. Lack. Of proof. Didn't mean a damn thing-they were right.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
    • MonkofNoob

      On the topic of proof, which is a hallmark of western scientific study, our capability to acquire proof is limited by several factors. The most obvious is humanity's ever increasing technical sophistication, since the higher it gets the more data we can record, and often our imaginations reach ahead of our ability to test. We now have ideas like String Theory, which intrigues some scientists even though it hasn't been tested and adds more dimensions to get its equations to work.
      The only questions we have, are the ones we currently lack the ability to answer, the ones we can't perform tests to observe real world effects. That's how we get proof we can track with numbers in order to build fancy graphs, because real world data doesn't lie. It is scientific canon, like trial and error.
      What is less obvious, are chaotic fundamentals inside of physics, like the Uncertainty Principle, which we do our best to work around, but which demonstrates scientifically that this thing we call existence is quite a random beast. It's built on unique values, different combinations of DNA, different snowflakes, varied personalities, myriads of species, an infinity of stars with infinity more planets all different and changing every instant into new formations of matter, just like pi counted out never ends, and never repeats.
      The reason religion exists is because our specie has forever lived with some amount of unknown, and even today there exists no solid data for the afterlife. Every mind is curious, and wonders what happens when the brain turns off, and when faced with a problem we lack the sophistication to solve, we should come up with guesses. That's what you have to do when you can't know for sure, so religion is a completely natural and organic psychological reaction to deal with that unknown. In principle it's just good science, possibly some form of practical social evolution, which the scientists already have a name for that's taken from some dead language.
      It's all silly for practical purposes, because investigating the mystic side of life is obviously not about the data.
      "No," says the monk, "sorry. You can't have proof, or rather, no one is capable of handing you God in box or pill or book. If somebody could, you would probably hear about it, but that's not how life works. What you seek with religion lies in the realm of consciousness, in a base form of awareness, and that is a realm below our crafty monkey brain tricks of concepts and words. Words are a very recent invention, and to connect to the old consciousness, to go the base of your biology, you must abandon your chatter and listen. You won't hear words. It will be sensations, peaceful subtle energetic motions that you will not be able to describe, once you come out of the trance, and back to this realm of words, numbers, and proof." The monk bows, and then says, "I though that might help."

      July 4, 2011 at 9:35 pm |
    • TJ

      Per those paying attention in high school geometry – proof is what mathematicians do, having everything to do with what they consider beautiful theories based on mathematical axioms that may or may not be true about the real world. Science comes to terms with the real world through a different process altogether. Hypothesis are made, possibly to explain some observation, and then other scientists use rational arguments and/or other observations to falsify that hypothesis. Science does not accept a priori axioms, so proofs are not possible. Since most religious claims can not be falsified, as God or the devil could manipulate our observations to support or deny them in an arbitrary way, science does not apply to religion. It always gets me when someone says it can not be scientifically proven that God does/does not exist, which only shows that the speaker has no clue about the scientific process.

      Therefore, faith in God is separate from science. Science would neither by expected to prove that God exists, or that God does not exist. Rational thought deals with rational issues. Faith is a guide for the soul.

      July 5, 2011 at 12:18 am |
  13. Sportsdoc

    So why do athiest think they have to wear it as badge of courage? Why do they have to knock theism out of everyone else's head? Why cannot atheist be neutral? Seems to me they would have a lot easier time if they were. When does not believing in something become a believe system. Athiests, just leave it alone!

    July 4, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
    • The Truth

      If you would stop brainwashing children with lies, then we would leave it alone. You are not fair to children.

      Then again, it only takes one atheist child to cause 20 children who believe to consider they have been lied to by their parents. My son sees this in school today.

      Ever watch TV? Your kids? Slowly messages are revealing the truth about religion, it's a lie.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      ..and you have us raise children in your view, Others in their view....

      To raise a child without the Faith that is, is to raise the child as a Atheist.

      ...something tells me you would not have a problem with that.

      July 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • The Truth

      Not as atheists, but as Realist. A far better term..

      July 4, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>"Not as atheists, but as Realist. A far better term.."

      Oh like the labels the rabid Athiest label those of faith, why start now? We all would love to have the other side use the labels that we find appealing. So now the term Atheist is not appealing to you. Interesting..

      July 4, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
    • Carol H (AL)

      Whatever labels are used, the fact remains that there is overwhelming proof that your god does not exist.
      You are all wasting your time spreading lies. Lies we can prove to be lies, unlike any of your arguments.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
    • NoodlyAppendage

      Because being silent is being complicit in the religion fantasy. Folks who worship love the whole silent pat on the back of praying aloud at meetings, dinners, etc., assuming that everyone in the entire place is a deluded. Atheists are tired of being the ones who either stand mute during your cultish rantings or lip-synch along so as not to rock the boat. We're rocking the boat. When you want to pray before dinner and demand everyone bow their heads to thank your invisible friend, we will demand everyone stay standing for a few more seconds with bowed heads so we can thank unicorns, leprechauns and Great Meatball Gods in the Sky as well. Msot "religious" people believe in belief, that is, everyone is doing it and it seems that society wants you to so you join the cult. You don't have to join the cult, folks. Use your brain for critical thinking.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:49 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>”Because being silent is being complicit in the religion fantasy. “

      Sorry, Noodly, that is what happens in a society that comes to rest with a sense of tolerance. The Gay and Lesbian community has gone through centuries of folks saying that their lifestyles must be confronted and that silence was to condone what their lifestyles. So your plan is that Atheist should be more like those who felt that they must confront those that are different than them. Think of how many you are aligning yourself with, and many of those that went down your path are within the church.

      In someways I gotta admire it because it just drags Atheist down to the level of the 700 clubs, Westburos and Taliban. There will be those within Atheism that will feel that confrontation is the only path forward.

      Just remember, it is Martin Luther King who is getting a monument on the National Mall ...not Malcolm X.

      July 4, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
  14. Matt

    @The Truth
    The Bible was inspired by God- the perfect being. That perfect being had man write his thoughts down (ie, we say "scriptures inspired by God") to illustrate that-A business man dictates a letter to his secretary. The secretary writes it and publishes it. But it is still the words from the Business owner. correct? Or does the fact that the secretary writes it means it's her letter?

    Because man is imperfect we need interpretation to discern the meaning of the words, and make course corrections when we are found to be wrong. Thus there is an arrangement that does exactly that- it's called the "faithful and descreet slave" when our observations are found to be wrong we make adjustments. That would be the course of wisdom, you'd agree?

    July 4, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
    • The Truth

      More excuses. How far must you stretch things? I had one guy, when I made the statement about the religious believing in a talking snake, that satan used the snake as a ventriloquist would.

      You guys really ought to wake up and see your nonsense,

      July 4, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
  15. loren

    this guy is a moron. Everyone on here arguing is a moron. Go outside and blow off some fireworks. Meet your neighbors regardless of beliefs and enjoy the day. Shut up already

    July 4, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
  16. Matt

    @ Bucky Ball
    That's fair enough. Neither can you rely on your Atheism. it is contains the same circular logic which is based on a lot of wind and no has no substance to back it. I can play like that too, but i find in most childish. you'd agree?

    July 4, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • Carol H (AL)

      Atheism is the lack of a belief. It has no arguments, circular or otherwise.
      But if it's an argument you're looking for....that's easy to do when you have nothing to stand on.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:20 pm |
  17. The Truth

    If the bible were created by a perfect being, no interpretation would be needed. And with thousands of religions with their own different interpretations, you'd think the perfect being would have made a more frequent visit and make himself known.

    Instead, it's only primitive man who has seen him. And today the followers follow primitive man’s creations. Yes, even before man fear volcanoes.

    July 4, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Primative man .... So you flunked history as well. At the time of the birth of Christianity man had mastered the seas and built structures that even today we can not explain how they did it.

      I will say that maybe the other guy was right. I offer you the chance to go and tell the folks of the Middle East how primitive they were. Chances are they could cross deserts and survive conditions that we train Navy Seals to survive.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • The Truth

      Sure, did they start their blood letting practices yet? Did they figure out the sun doesn't revolve around the earth and the earth isn't the center of the universe yet? And yet they wrote books that YOU beleive about the invisible? Too funny. I guess at least they knew the invisible couldn't be questioned, huh?

      Yep, primitive man, I say.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
    • The Truth

      "At the time of the birth of Christianity man had mastered the seas and built structures that even today we can not explain how they did it" Nope, xtians didn't build anything we couldn't build today. And you can take that to the bank. Nothing was built that we couldn't replicate at the time with the resources that were available. Unless you are talking about aliens.. Yep, many think aliens, not gods, were here. Even still, we could have built the same, they did nothing that we couldn't do.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:33 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      ...but yet they have monuments to their ingenuity that out lives so many things we have build with modern machinery. They charted the heavens, built simple machines and might have managed electricity before Franklin. Do we need to even bring up Algebra when Europe was still in caves and wearing animal pelts.

      Interesting what you consider primitive. You might want to talk to some folks from the Middle East before you say such to the wrong person and feelings and other things get hurt. 😦

      July 4, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • The Truth

      The christians built the pyramids? We have already proven they could have made these structures at the time. Instruments? Man always built tools. Charting the heavens? It only makes sense. I realize we humans aren’t that smart, but give me a break. You make mountains out of mole hills.

      And more so, if I were going along your path, it was aliens who most now believe had influence, not gods. To them they may have been gods. Today, our military would likely try to blow them out of the sky. I’m not promoting aliens. Though it is more than likely there is life on other planets that wouldn’t look like us. More so, your image of god thing would li8kley be blown apart.

      Your religion will one day fail miserably.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Hi T.T.

      You said those who God reveled himself too. Did you not mean the people of the Middle East? Not sure where you got Christian. Calm yourself dude, you are starting to lose it.

      >>”We have already proven they could have made these structures at the time.”

      I thought they were primitive. Go take a look at the science of that day and age, I maybe you will understand how incorrect you are calling those of that time primitive.

      >> “Today, our military would likely try to blow them out of the sky. I’m not promoting aliens.”

      Well, ...i guess that's my cue to go and get a pizza. I think your Atheism is failing you by the second.

      July 4, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
    • The Truth

      It makes no sense for me or anyone to argue with your fantasy.. As far as I'm concerned, they are primitive. A term I use to place things in perspective. Now to place it into your perspective, we evolved from cave man – your primitive. See now?

      No god revealed himself to anyone, EVER. It is pure bunk. And if you believe that he did, yet he doesn't appear today, you are a loooonnnnn. You are too unrealistic to have a debate with.

      July 4, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>"A term I use to place things in perspective."

      I believe you need to rethink your perspective, or at least your word usage. 🙂

      July 4, 2011 at 7:41 pm |
    • Vanbotchalizm

      You know, if people were more concerned with getting jobs and working for a living, instead of proving who is wrong or right, we would be a lot happier. However we all get stuck with elitist atheist hipsters and insane ignorant bible thumpers. Fantasic.

      July 4, 2011 at 8:33 pm |
  18. Matt

    YOU are no doubt aware that animals are governed by instinct. Many machines are designed to obey instructions.

    But humans were actually created to be guided by principles. How can you be sure of that? Well, Jehovah, the Originator of all righteous principles, announced when he made the first humans: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” We were not created like Robots. We have been created with free will and the freedom of choice.

    The Creator is a spirit; he does not have a physical body as we do, so we are in his “image” (from the Hebrew word "Betsal-me′nu"- meaning shadow, semblance) in that we can reflect his personality, displaying a measure of his fine qualities.

    Humans have the capacity to chart their lives according to principles, that is, according to what they believe to be a code of right action. Jehovah has had many of these principles recorded in his Word.

    July 4, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • The Truth

      We too act out in instinct. And as we reason and have emotions, so do animals.

      July 4, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
  19. the truth

    You struggle hard convincing yourself. See why it's not good for children? When you stretch to prove your delusion, you are lying. Why teach kids to lie? Please stop.

    July 4, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • the truth

      ^^ response to Matt

      July 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm |
  20. Matt

    @The Truth
    You said: "So now the invisible god has an image?? Where is he then? He can't be invisible then, to have an image. Show him to me.

    Do you even know what an image is? Its definition? An image is a replica, or a copy of something else. For example, if man makes an image of the sun carving the shape out of a rock and paints it yellow. and says "This is the Sun." it is not really the hot fireball massive giant star Sun in our Galaxy but "an image" a replica, small copy of it. Can you begin to grasp that conscept, or is that too much 'a giant leap for you'? Really, it is a very simple concept to grasp, even for Atheist. wouldn't you agree?

    July 4, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.