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July 26th, 2011
04:56 AM ET

Atheist group wants to stop World Trade Center cross

A group of atheists has filed a lawsuit to stop the display of the World Trade Center cross at a memorial of the 9/11 terror attacks.

The "government enshrinement of the cross was an impermissible mingling of church and state," the American Atheists say in a press statement.

The group says it filed the lawsuit this week in state court in New York and posted a copy of the lawsuit on its website.

The lawsuit names many defendants, including the state of New Jersey, the city of New York , New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

FULL POST

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 9/11 • Atheism • New York

soundoff (554 Responses)
  1. Laughing

    On a side note, I'm surprised this hasn't gotten a crapload of comments yet about atheism ruining america (Adelina/Zelda/Beatrice/FairGarden ect... ect.... aside, then again she doesn't count as a real person anyways)
    Guess it's still too early.

    July 26, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • myklds

      @Laughing

      In only proves that unlike atheists having bee in their bonnets when it comes to religious topics, religious people could careless about atheistic one.

      July 26, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • Laughing

      Oh mykids,

      You might feel all high and mighty, but you might want to go back and look at some other Atheist stories that were posted on this blog. You might find that they have the most posts out of all the stories posted, and from a lot of believers who bemoan and wail about the prosecution that is taking place in America. Sorry, but the high and mighty thing only works when you can back it up, and you my friend, can not

      July 26, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      @Mark from Middle River, no, but the attack took place on American soil and America was the target.

      It doesn’t matter if someone doesn’t feel that the flag represents them. It is the symbol for our nation. If someone doesn’t like being a US citizen, they can become an expatriate in another country or form a radical militia up in the mountains somewhere. Or they can stay here and be vocal about their beliefs. Because that’s the beauty of this country. People are free to think and say what they want.

      July 26, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • myklds

      I would apologize if I couldn't trace back some other atheist's stories in this blog. Like atheists which comprise only 2.5 of the entire unbeliever's populace, they (other atheist's stories) are too few to recall down here.

      July 26, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • myklds

      2.5%*

      July 26, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
    • myklds

      @Laughing

      (In addition to my reply)How about you, would you mind going back to tons of religious topics on this blog where atheists are storming like bees?

      July 26, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Is there such a thing as a REVERSE "argument from popularity" ? If so, I think I just saw one. 😈

      July 26, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • Misty Jean

      @my kids

      I believe about one-fourth of the world population is Atheist/non-believers/free thinkers/etc. Not 2.5%.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:23 pm |
    • Carl Saga

      @Misty Jean..

      16% of the entire globe are considered non-believers and only 2.5 of which are known atheists.

      July 29, 2011 at 11:10 am |
  2. Ron

    I think there should be absolutely no religious symbols of any kind in this area, Just the American flag as the flag represents all people in our Nation.

    July 26, 2011 at 10:09 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I second that motion.
      The WTC was a target because it symbolized America, not christianity.
      The terrorists cared not for religion – only nationality.
      The American flag is a much better symbol of strength and solidarity than a christian cross.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:26 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Here, here.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • myweightinwords

      I concur.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      "Just the American flag as the flag represents all people in our Nation."

      Were all the victims....in a World Trade building... people of our nation? Were they all Americans? How many, in America, not consider themselves patriotic and often declare that the stars and stripes, do not represent them?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • Ron

      @ Mark,

      Thank you as I didn't think of that fact. In that case, I would suggest a flag representing the country where these people were from, be placed in the same area as the American flag. They should be included too.

      July 26, 2011 at 11:35 am |
    • myklds

      Is there none of you here knows that "In God We trust"?

      If (atheists) you really allergic to religious symbols and sinages, then how could you stand keeping that dollar bill inside your pocket not sneezing and without having some rashes on your thigh?

      July 26, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @mykids
      That little addendum to American currency was added during the height of McCarthyism, which isn't the most flattering chapter of your history.
      I think you'll find PLENTY of people who have an issue with it.

      July 26, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      @mykids, atheists do oppose “In God We Trust” on our money. We oppose it, but we still have to buy groceries and pay rent. Because we are realists and live in the real world, as opposed to a fantasy land where some deity is all soft and fluffy while letting 3,000 people die.

      We aren’t “allergic” to religious symbols. We just oppose them on Federal objects because the US is a country for ALL people, not just Christians. Christians aren’t the only ones who pay tax to support those government items.

      July 26, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • i wonder

      myklds,

      The U.S. currency motto is a minor annoyance - I can't think of the last time I used paper money... maybe a month ago.

      By the way, there's a good ol' Evil Eye on the bills too - doesn't that make you real twitchy? Don't fear too much though - there are red threads embedded in the paper to protect us from harm. Oy, when will you folks get past these ridiculous supersti.tions?!

      July 26, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • myklds

      Doc...

      I think when or whom it was printed or was the author are not the main issue, it's the fact that it's still (blatantly) printed on every face of every dollar bill but you're still using it either to buy groceries or pay your credit card bills without any expressive complaints. But on crosses, there's a lawsuit? OH C'MON!

      @pfeffernusse

      Perhaps there are some oppositions from your group but apparently not as expressive as making your own currency like making your own currency sans the the phrase, like making your own version of Christmas billboard, (ridiculously) spending $23,000 for a flier, right?

      And...you oppose the cross "because the US is a country for ALL people"? REALLY? How about that $23,000 flier bearing the message of "God Less America"? Are you saying that "ALL people" of America are atheist? I think you better quit exploiting some words just to further your cause.
      And you must accept the hard truth that though it doesn't speaks for ALL but in Democracy, MAJORITY RULES.

      @ i wonder

      i (also) wonder HOW "God Bless Our Trip/Journey" (NOT) in every busses and any form of public transfortations that can't be seen when you're driving your own tainted limo or the Christmas Billboards and crosses that can only be seen when you go such places where such sinages and symbols are constructed, can be more annoying than "In God We Trust" which is blatantly printed on EVERY bill which is widely used and accepted. Which also represents that plastic that you are swiping. And likely you use as payment when the bills of that plastic (over) due.

      Oh wait...that good ol' Evil Eye and there are red threads embedded in the paper to protect us from harm sounds interesting. I'm glad you knew a lot about it. I never thought you're that ridiculously supersti.tious. But you already past first grade. I think it's time for you to get over with it.

      July 26, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Mykids
      My money has poems about hockey and such – no God on my currency.

      July 26, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      @mykids, make our own currency? This isn’t Monopoly. Printing our own currency would do nothing because the money would have no Federally-backed value. Do you not know how the economy works? And may I remind you, some good Christians put up an opposing Christmas billboard. You know, instead of following Christ’s instructions like feeding the poor and caring for the sick.

      Is the flier printed using Federal dollars? Is it 15’ feet tall, weighing thousands of pounds, displayed in prominently in a public (i.e. provided for with tax payer money) space? You seem to have some reading comprehension and logic difficulties. A flier is an expression of freedom of speech. A huge steel cross on public property is a violation of the Establishment Clause. Not everyone who died on 9/11 was a Christian.

      July 26, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
  3. Laughing

    Unlike the previous article where the American Atheist's tried to get the "Heaven" sign down, I am completely behind them on this. They make the excellent point that it's a ridiculous notion that god would want us to keep faith by letting two crossbars stand after he let 3,000 people die.

    The mental gymnastics that some people will go through is really astounding.

    July 26, 2011 at 10:09 am |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      Laughing

      Unlike the previous article where the American Atheist's tried to get the "Heaven" sign down, I am completely behind them on this. They make the excellent point that it's a ridiculous notion that god would want us to keep faith by letting two crossbars stand after he let 3,000 people die.

      The mental gymnastics that some people will go through is really astounding.
      ---
      Apparently god was p!$ $ed at the 3000 but was there to support the people cleaning up the mess. Moral of the story.... don't p! $$ god off and he might save your a $$.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:16 pm |
  4. justathought

    Perhaps a symbol for all major faiths should be put on display at the World Trade Center, including one for the athiests, if there is one. Although I'm a Christian, I think that this nation was founded on religious principles, so if it is appropriate to display any religious epithet, let all be reconized.

    July 26, 2011 at 9:43 am |
    • Ron

      Don't forget minority religions. The symbols of the major faiths do not represent all people in this country.
      Besides, if they were to put a symbol up for every religion in the U.S., it would look silly.
      Take the cross down and put up an American flag...or several, as the flag represents ALL people in our Country.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:02 am |
    • Luke

      There is no symbol to recognize atheism. Atheism is not a creed, has no set of rules. It's nothing. It's like saying you don't collect baseball cards. Do we need a symbol to say we don't collect baseball cards? If we had groups and creeds for the things we do not do, it would be literally endless. That being said, I work across the Street from the Wolrd Trade Center (our lobby was a temporary morgue in 2011 and see that atheist group having a point here. The cross currently sits next to a Catholic church and has been consecrated. World Trade Center is particially built with government money and we cannot put tax dollars into religious icons. I had friends die on 9/11 – some muslim, some Christian and yes – some atheists.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      @justathought: “I think that this nation was founded on religious principles”

      Many Christians want to believe that the US is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles. They are incorrect and reconstructing history to suit their bias. And we wonder why the US is falling behind in education…

      July 26, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Luke: I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how awful that must have been. I'm across the river in NJ and we could see the smoke from our house. I think you also mentioned you knew people in Norway as well. I can only wish you comfort.

      @justathought: I disagree about having religious symbols at the memorial because, as Ron said, you could never include them all. I would like that something in the memorial be dedicated to religious tolerance. I think it is vitally important for this country and the world to know that intolerance was what drove these insane acts. And that we should strive to never give into that kind of intolerance lest we forget where it leads.

      July 26, 2011 at 2:58 pm |
    • Free

      @justathought
      “I think that this nation was founded on religious principles”
      One can also say that it was founded on the principle that only white men could vote, so it's a good thing that we have moved away from such founding principles, right?

      July 26, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
  5. Secular love maker

    Bea: Either you are incredibly committed to trolling or you are the most mentally undeveloped person since Abraham(if he ever existed).

    July 26, 2011 at 8:55 am |
    • Frogist

      Just gotta say... I love your name! 🙂

      July 26, 2011 at 8:57 am |
  6. Frogist

    The cross of the two steel beams was in a way iconic. But it makes me very uneasy to have that symbol enshrined in the memorial. It represents an idea that this was a Christian moment. A Christian loss alone. And in opposition to a muslim act. That is a false story. It gives a very false impression of what actually happened that day. If anything, we need honest, true accounts to remind us of the damage, the history, the culture, the people who were lost. And representing it as a Christian issue really does what happened a grave disservice.

    July 26, 2011 at 8:53 am |
    • Ron

      @ Frgist,
      I completely agree. This tragedy was on people of many different religions and people of no religions.
      I also think it's another push to put Christianity at the head again.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:04 am |
  7. Civiloutside

    Why would we move to a horrible country where people are forced to worship a living man masquerading as a god when we could stay home and help prevent America from becoming a horrible country where people are forced to worship a dead man masquerading as a god?

    July 26, 2011 at 8:51 am |
    • Civiloutside

      Sigh. Apologies for the post out-of-place. This was meant as a reply to Adelina 12.0 (Beatrice) below.

      July 26, 2011 at 8:57 am |
  8. CW

    Man got to love those Atheist,

    They want to abolish laws when it comes to g.ay marriage but when it comes to citing separation of church and state...boy do they want that law followed to the "T".

    I'll say this...since all the atheist want to cite the above law...I'll cite this one: 1ST AMENDMENT...FREE SPEECH!!!...you know remember that one? PLEASE PUT THE CROSS ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER...THANK YOU!!!!

    @ Beatrice,

    We need to pray for these people...your right they "DO HAVE" a cancer...of the heart....loved your comment but lets remember to pray for them.

    July 26, 2011 at 8:47 am |
    • Civiloutside

      If one law is good and another bad, exactly how does supporting the good law and opposing the bad one reflect poorly on the people doing so?

      Yes... First Amendment... Free speech. That's a right of the *people*, not a right of government insti-tutions. Private people can put up religious symbols all over their own private property as much as they like. Government insti-tutions, however, are quite rightly more limited.

      July 26, 2011 at 9:05 am |
    • JF

      Yes how dare those atheists insist on fair and equal rights for everyone. People should be forced to obey laws that are based on ancient literature. Doc makes a good point. Let's bring back slavery. If it was good enough for God's chosen people then it's good enough us. And for those of you that will become slaves, well, be the best doggone slave you can be and God will certainly reward you in heaven for your services.

      July 26, 2011 at 9:16 am |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Civiloutside,

      Well said. Thank you for that.

      @ JF,

      LOL. Good plan... is there a sign up sheet? Slaves to the left, Masters to the right...

      July 26, 2011 at 9:34 am |
    • Luke

      you know what CW – I am looking out my window RIGHT NOW at the World Trade Center and thinking back 10 years, recalling how my friends burned up, jumped or were incinerated instantaneously. I'm reminded how my sister survived luckily, but her entire company was wiped out. And I am suddenly reminded that people I know of all faiths, creeds and non believers alike died and how you were watching on TV, deluted as to what really happened here. You have no idea and reminded this blog that you are heartless, clueless, ignorant and foolish. I won't even bother replying to your argument because it doesn't even warrant a reply. Good riddence to you.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:07 am |
    • CW

      @ Luke,

      You said:

      you know what CW – I am looking out my window RIGHT NOW at the World Trade Center and thinking back 10 years, recalling how my friends burned up, jumped or were incinerated instantaneously. I'm reminded how my sister survived luckily, but her entire company was wiped out. And I am suddenly reminded that people I know of all faiths, creeds and non believers alike died and how you were watching on TV, deluted as to what really happened here. You have no idea and reminded this blog that you are heartless, clueless, ignorant and foolish. I won't even bother replying to your argument because it doesn't even warrant a reply. Good riddence to you.

      -----------–

      I say:

      First let me address...first I'm sorry for your loss and anyone that lost anyone on that dreadful day. Second you say..."all faiths" right?....remember there were christians that died too. Now would you want to tell someone who lost a "CHRISTIAN" loved one that they CAN'T AND SHOULDN'T have a cross on the building? Third...not sure why you felt the need to attack me but its okay...like I've said we as christians pray for all...non-believers...mu.slims...and atheist's alike. All I can say is this....one day we will all stand before One God...the one true God...not Buddha, Zeus, or Thor...but Our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Peace....

      July 26, 2011 at 10:24 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      It's early.

      The cross should stand at the memorial. Not in a prominent display, such as front in center when you arrive at the center, but it still does have a place. I point to the scene, a few days ago, of the ladder seven fire truck being lowered into the the museum. I know that when I visited the WTC site a year or so ago, there was a damaged NYC police car on display already, in another museum. If I am correct a postal truck or jeep was also on display. I hope these vehicles make their way also to the museum.

      I point to these because each represented a piece of the people that passed away that horrible day. Does it mean that everyone there was a fireman, or a police officer or a mail carrier? No, the memorial and enshrinement of these vehicles were not to represent everyone that died there. They were enshrined to represent images of that day that many felt were significant. That the twin beams displayed after the fall or how ever they came to be was to me a miracle because I am a person of Faith. They might not mean the same to a Atheist, but it was something that I am many others remember from those tragic days.

      Some one said: "just the American flag as the flag represents all people in our Nation."

      Ok, to argue a point, were all the people who died that day at ground zero Americans? I think this is when I believe that the traction of the Atheist argument sorta begins to slip. If we put a huge flag at the front doors of the memorial and required every visitor to pledge allegiance to it, as they came into the location, there would be a serious issue.

      If they were going to require every person to Catholic "cross" themselves or kneel and pray before this Iron Cross when entering the site I can see a issue with the government forcing a Faith on folks. Displaying a image or a symbol of that day that a great many felt was touching or helpful to them is not forcing anyone to define everyone as Christians in the same way that Ladder 7's truck does not say that everyone who died were firemen.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      You ARE joking , right ? The First Amendment does not grant freedom of speech to GOVERNMENT bodies, it grants it to individuals, (the PEOPLE). BTW, you may want to read the rest of that amendment, it grants the rest of us protection from people like you who want to shove your religion down our throats. If YOU want to put up a memorial on your own property, go right ahead, (assuming your neighborhood association does not think it is an eyesore). And since you did it twice, in an otherwise carefully typed post, the plural of "atheist" is "atheists".

      July 26, 2011 at 10:49 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      @CW, there used to be laws supporting slavery. There used to be laws prohibiting interracial marriage. There used to be laws preventing women from owning property. Those laws were abolished because they were discriminatory and WRONG. Sometimes, bad laws need to be changed.

      However, one of the main cornerstones of this country is the Establishment Clause. It is a just idea that not only protects citizens from being force to worship a particular way; it also protects churches from government interference. It works both ways, to the benefit of everyone. Christians conveniently forget that.

      If government dollars are being used at the new site, then no crosses should appear. As pointed out, free speech applies to citizens, not the government.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
    • Frogist

      @MarkFromMiddleRiver: You make an important point. That symbol was prominent. And as much as we would all like that those who were at the scene think about the implications before focusing on the cross in a couple of steel beams, that didn't happen. The cross was there. I do think it deserves a place where people can visit it and reflect. I think Christians especially would appreciate it. Whether it should go in the memorial itself, is another issue. It is a gov't sponsored memorial that I think needs to remain religion neutral. Establishment clause aside, what happened on Sept 11 affected this whole country and even the world. Christian symbols do not reflect that. I think a compromise can be reached. Display the cross at a nearby church with a plaque denoting its history.

      July 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
    • Frogist

      @JF & fimeilluer: I don't know abou tthe whole slavery thing... are we talking a little dominant/submissive kind of thing? Or the full Kunta Kinte deal?

      July 26, 2011 at 3:36 pm |
    • Free

      CW
      Abolishing laws that are biased against gays and abolishing laws that favor only Christian religious symbolism are in the same spirit of fighting for minority rights and equality for all, not just the majority. If it were possible for all religious symbols to be displayed without offending anyone then I'd support that, but the opposition given to opening a mosque even near the site makes me doubtful that it is. As an alternative isn't it just easier to leave the religious symbolism out of the memorial altogether?

      July 26, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
  9. Noble9

    Not all of the families of those lost on 9/11 are Christians. If your child died in a bombing in Israel would you want his grave marked with a Star of David or a Crescent? The US should either put up religious symbols for ALL faiths or none.

    For me the cross is a symbol of oppression, and I was born and raised in the USA and I'm a veteran. I'm tired of people saying this is a Christian country. I served my country, not the cross.

    July 26, 2011 at 8:39 am |
  10. i agree with bea

    The Lord doesn't want anyone to perish...Heaven and earth may pass away but His Word never will. Trying to stop the teaching of the Gospel is as worthless as trying to hold back the tides.

    July 26, 2011 at 8:00 am |
    • JF

      "His/Her/It's" word has already passed. We don't have the original copy of the New Testament. Did you know that there are more versions of the New Testament than there are words in the New Testament? If any deity had any input as to what went into the text, it has long since vanished. Men wrote the scriptures and then other men changed, deleted, or added to the text. You said that the Lord doesn't want anyone to perish. Based on the Bible, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. You're just fooling yourself. If you read it closely, you will also see it's not the most moral piece of literature out there. There have also been a lot of innocent people that have died because of that literature.

      July 26, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      If the Lord doesn’t want anyone to perish, then why did He allow 3,000 people die on 9/11/2001?

      July 26, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ pfeffernusse
      oh, he didn't WANT them to perish, he gave them FREEWILL to stay in the towers and die, He was INCAPABLE of stopping this. Proof positive that He is NOT OMNIPOTENT.

      *** this comment is satyre and in NO WAY implies that the victims of 911 wanted to die that horrible day. The comment is not meant to disrespect the dead, but to admonish the foolishness of the bible thumpers who believe the nonsense they believe in. My sincerest appologies to those I may have offended (families of the deceased... not the religitards)

      July 26, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      @fimeilleur, oh. Yes. Of course. How silly of me to forget the water-tight "logic" of God.

      I think I may have just hurt myself rolling my eyes...

      July 26, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  11. Rachel

    Since when does the minority rule. This country is really going to pot. What are these lawmakers smoking these days. They've got to be very disturbed in their thinking.

    July 26, 2011 at 7:56 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I agree.
      U.S. lawmakers should completely ignore the consti.tution whenever it suits them.
      If the people vote in favour of slavery, why should those chains be unlocked?
      If the majority of people disbelieve Darwin, Newton, and Copernicus then science classes should be taught straight out of the Bible.
      Thomas Jefferson was a heathen and a heretic. No need to pay attention to him or his cronies.

      July 26, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Doc,

      Bang on, as usual.

      July 26, 2011 at 9:37 am |
    • Luke

      Well, let's answer your question "since when does the minority rule?

      Never. But neither does the majority. Under the const.ituion, equal rights are granted to everyone (mostly). So, let's go with the 1780s as to the answer. Suffice?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:10 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      Which is why we have the Consti-tution. A majority may decide elections, but those elected are to support EVERYONE they represent. Not just the people that agree with them. Once upon a time, a majority of people favored slavery, apartheid, and no rights for women.

      Atheists are simply reminding people of the principles that made this country great.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
  12. Reality

    Reiteration is great for the learning process. As is reading and rational thinking followed by conclusions based on all of it.

    A reiteration for posting on all refrigerator doors:

    SAVING 1.5 BILLION LOST MUSLIMS:
    THERE NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE ANY ANGELS I.E. NO GABRIEL, NO ISLAM AND THEREFORE NO MORE KORANIC-DRIVEN ACTS OF HORROR AND TERROR

    SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:
    THERE WAS AND NEVER WILL BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY

    SAVING 15.5 MILLION ORTHODOX FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM:
    ABRAHAM AND MOSES PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED.

    Added details upon request.

    July 26, 2011 at 7:52 am |
  13. i agree with bea

    Our beautiful nation is falling apart for that very reason: turning it's back on the Lord. We've become a new Babylon.....a Sodom and Gomorah. Such a depraved, selfish society. God help us!

    July 26, 2011 at 7:46 am |
    • JF

      Someone's been to Jesus Camp.

      July 26, 2011 at 8:05 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I'm not worried.
      If the Bible story of Sodom and Gomorrah taught me anything it's that God will spare me if I just give over my daughters to be gang rap'ed by a ravenous mob.
      Even if my wife gets turned into a condiment for the terrible sin of looking over her shoulder, I should still be able to have a drunken or'gy in a cave with those same daughters.
      Lot sure was a righteous man!

      July 26, 2011 at 9:31 am |
    • Laughing

      So which one are we? Soddom and Gomorrah or Babylon?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • Luke

      So Thomas Jefferson, a noted deist (not religious and fought against organized religion) was a bad man. So to answer your question now – I suppose the country began falling apart BEFORE it began. Weird. That's like dividing by zero. Does this answer suffice to you?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • YourGodlessGaySocialistNightmare

      Selfish: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others.

      I think you're right.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      i agree with bea

      Our beautiful nation is falling apart for that very reason: turning it's back on the Lord. We've become a new Babylon.....a Sodom and Gomorah. Such a depraved, selfish society. God help us!
      ---------------
      Your brothers in the ME have the same ideas. Taliban is Taliban whether christians or muslim.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:20 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      Our beautiful nation is falling apart because our infrastructure is crumbling. Our businesses are shipping jobs overseas. Our schools can do their jobs without massive interference. Our beautiful nation is falling apart because one group hijacked one of our political parties, intent on creating a theocracy. Our political parties have become so divided and acrimonious that nothing can get done. THAT is why our nation is falling apart.

      July 26, 2011 at 1:12 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      *CAN'T do their jobs without massive interferrence.

      July 26, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • Jim

      If you don't like what America has become so much why don't you just move away? Perhaps to a more religious country, like Iran?

      July 26, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
  14. Beatrice

    Americans, you need to go back to Christianity in order to be saved from yourselves. Look at the world. What good was there by ignoring your God? None, only the bottomless evil follies, perversion, insanity and shame. Wake up, America.

    July 26, 2011 at 7:12 am |
    • JF

      How many times have people heard this over the past 3,000 years. You people never give up. Jeez.

      July 26, 2011 at 7:43 am |
    • Luke

      Beatrice

      How can one go back to being a Christian if they were born atheist?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      Well, let’s see. Does someone send tickets to the Evil Follies? Because that might be a fun show to catch. Like burlesque, but evil-er.

      Nope, no perversions. None that are illegal anyway.

      Quite sane.

      I have nothing to be ashamed of. I try to live each day with the highest set to standards and ethics.

      What was your point, again?

      July 26, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • Frogist

      @pfeffernusse: The Evil Follies? I think they call it Disney on Ice now.

      July 26, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      @Frogist...BWAH!

      There is now coffee all over my desk.

      July 26, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
    • Free

      Frogist
      I was thinking of Dancing With The Stars personally, but I think yours is better. 🙂

      July 26, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
  15. Beatrice

    Why aren't white Americans learning that USA was created by Christians in order to spread Christianity all over the world? Why do the secular American whites conceal historic things just like the criminal nations, teaching history wrongly? Why are things going so wrong in USA now?

    July 26, 2011 at 6:55 am |
    • fimeilleur

      I blame home school... and Texas... but that's just one man's opinion...

      July 26, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • Civiloutside

      "Why aren't white Americans learning that USA was created by Christians in order to spread Christianity all over the world?"

      Simple. Because it wasn't.

      July 26, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • Woody

      ".......USA was created by Christians in order to spread Christianity all over the world"

      Uh, Beatrice, it seems as if you've never read the Declaration of Independence or the US Consti-tution (maybe you've never even heard of them). The American colonies declared independence from British rule when they when they published a list of grievances against the King in the form of the Declaration of Independence. The US Consti-tution, adopted several years later, is the official list of the laws of the land. It's the backbone of the US Government. Nowhere in the Consti-tution will you find the words "Christ" or "Christian". The Consti-tution begins with the phrase "We the People". The US Government was founded on the principle that the People should should decide how they will be governed, not to spread Christianity, or any other religion "all over the world".

      July 26, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      Beatrice

      Why aren't white Americans learning that USA was created by Christians in order to spread Christianity all over the world? Why do the secular American whites conceal historic things just like the criminal nations, teaching history wrongly? Why are things going so wrong in USA now?
      -------–
      Christians are destroying our nation.....have been for 50+ years....Things were fine until this. Since then fear and intimidation has been the standard for the Christian Taliban.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      There was a day when people respected the rights of other people. Now you have the Christian Taliban stuggling to keep power so that they impose their god's law on everyone. BEa...people like you are enemies of the state.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • Free

      Beatrice
      'white Americans'?

      Let me guess, you have an unhealthy fetish for wearing plain white sheets and for visiting the homes of black and Jewish folks late at night in order to burn religious lawn ornaments?

      July 26, 2011 at 4:18 pm |
  16. Beatrice

    No Bible or No Christianity = No USA
    The British and Americans stole everything good and noble and intelligent from the Bible. Otherwise, they are all barbarians just like any others.

    July 26, 2011 at 6:46 am |
    • fimeilleur

      So are you calling the other 189 sovoreign states and 13 disputed states as barbaric? Only the US and UK are civilized? OK then...

      Home schooled were you?

      July 26, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      @Beatrice, you keep saying this and it simply isn’t true. Which either means you are being willfully ignorant (and not using the brain God gave you) or you are lying. This means you are breaking one of God’s Commandments.

      You are also being incredibly judgmental. I’m pretty sure Jesus frowned on that. Why is it so difficult for Christians to follow Christ’s orders?

      July 26, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      For a better understanding I invite you to visit our website http://www.gaychristian101.com

      July 26, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
    • .....

      Avdberg stop trolling..... your cult is garbage, it's not worth your time people, click the report abuse link to get rid of this troll.

      July 26, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
    • Free

      Beatrice
      There would have been no USA without displacing the Native Americans from their lands. Are you saying that we owe that chapter of our history to the Bible?

      July 26, 2011 at 4:27 pm |
  17. Beatrice

    These godless parasites who contributed nothing to build USA should be kicked out of the country.

    July 26, 2011 at 6:43 am |
    • Frogist

      @Beatrice: I'm actually quite pleased that this story has gotten under your skin as much as it has. It means we, as a country that values freedom of religion, are doing our part to make sure the ugly fanatical religious extremists, like you, are kept at bay.

      July 26, 2011 at 8:56 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      Thomas Jefferson
      Benjamin Franklin
      Thomas Paine
      James Madison
      Abraham Lincoln
      Edgar Allen Poe
      William Howard Taft
      Elizabeth Cady Stanton
      Susan B. Anthony
      Mark Twain
      Walt Whitman
      Andrew Carnegie
      Thomas Edison
      Clarence Darrow
      Katherine Hepburn
      H.P. Lovecraft
      Frank Lloyd Wright
      Earnest Hemmingway
      Gene Kelly
      Isaac Asimov
      George Orwell
      Howard Hughes
      George Carlin
      Barry White
      Frank Zappa
      Julia Sweeney

      Darn those slackers who have done nothing to contribute to the US! Darn them all!

      July 26, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
  18. Beatrice

    Godless whites have gone mad both in Europe and America.

    July 26, 2011 at 6:40 am |
  19. Beatrice

    America, why do you live with these atheists? why don't you get split like Sudan? The Christian state will have plenty refugees from the secular state in no time.

    July 26, 2011 at 6:39 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      So this is today's new name, Adelina?
      Your vitriolic nonsense is as inflammatory as always.
      You do more to convince people that Christians are bigoted nutbars that anyone I know.
      You're doing a great job selling atheism!

      July 26, 2011 at 8:35 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Zelda-today-gone-tomorrow.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:55 am |
    • pfeffernusse

      What part of “Liberty and justice for ALL” do you not get?

      July 26, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Free

      Generally speaking, the most 'Christian' parts of America are the most economically depressed. They're separating themselves from us would likely hurt them greatly, and the poverty would likely lead to even greater crime rates in these areas. Who would you blame for the 'godlessness' then?

      July 26, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
  20. Beatrice

    They are really wasting Americans' time, money and energy. What a cancer. Why don't they immigrate to North Korea where there is no cross?

    July 26, 2011 at 6:37 am |
    • Civiloutside

      But why would we move to a horrible country where people are forced to worship a living man masquerading as a god when we could stay home and help prevent America from becoming a horrible country where people are forced to worship a dead man masquerading as a god?

      July 26, 2011 at 8:55 am |
    • Luke

      By your own rationale, you should move to a country where the government still collects a church tax. There are plenty – the USA is not one of them – for you to choose from. Some of them even speak English, so you'll have a good start. Seriously. I'm not kidding. Try the Google machine out for yourself.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:19 am |
    • CW

      @ Beatrice,

      I agree...with you. They don't realize that the H.ell that God is going to bring upon them if they don't change...Oops...someone will conjure up some dumb ributle arguement against me...o well its not me speaking..see the Revelation in the Bible...God spells it out for ya.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • gozer

      CW, a god such as you describe that metes out eternal torture for even minor transgressions such as doubt done in a finite lifetime, should properly be described as an AS-SHOLE. Take your evil god fictions and shove them.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:36 am |
    • Laughing

      @ CW

      Let me ask you something, how does it feel to be one of the most hated people on this board? No really, you're opinions are as worthless as you and just because you have gotten it through your thick skull that there is a god and he favors you above the rest, you start condeming people to hel.l. Even according to most believers on this board your not a good or true christian. I do feel bad for you, because when we both go to hel.l, you know exactly what torments await you.

      July 26, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      Beatrice/Adelina dont you have some rotten cabbage to dig up and eat?

      July 26, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban

      Come on folks...don't be too mena to Bea/Adelina and CW they provide great entertainment. Only difference is we don't feed them to the lions anymore.

      July 26, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      @Beatrice—are they wasting your time, money, or energy? You are the one who keeps investing time and energy. No one is taking it from you. And no one is taking your money.

      @CW, so God is going to send me to Hell because I used the brain He gave me and all the evidence I was presented with? God would really do that if I don’t believe in Him? How insecure is God that he needs a bunch of hairless apes to worship Him?

      July 26, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Laughing: I suspect CW and Adelina/Beatrice wear that hatred/pity/anger that others feel for them as a badge of honour. They consider it proof that they are doing God's work if the godless (which is everyone but them) can't stand them. Sadly, it's only proof of their own egotism IMO. It's attention-seeking behaviour paired with inferiority/superiority issues. It is sort of scary that they have linked those problems with their God considering what people are capable of when they think they have the backing of an omnipotent being. Hopefully, blog posts are the only place that their violent bitterness expresses itself.

      July 26, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
    • Laughing

      @ Frogist

      Ramen

      July 26, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.