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September 9th, 2011
02:25 PM ET

Explaining the 9/11 ceremony controversy

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - The controversy continues in New York over how to commemorate the 10th anniversary of 9/11.

On Thursday, HLN's Joy Behar tackled the issue with a priest, a rabbi and an imam.

Religious leaders from across the spectrum have criticized the city's decision not to include clergy or any formal prayer, saying faith played an important role in the recovery from the tragedy.

"The ceremony was designed in coordination with 9/11 families with a mixture of readings that are spiritual, historical and personal in nature," Evelyn Erskine, a spokeswoman for New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, said in an e-mail to CNN in late August.

"It has been widely supported for the past 10 years, and rather than have disagreements over which religious leaders participate, we would like to keep the focus of our commemoration ceremony on the family members of those who died," she wrote.

You can read more about the issues surrounding the controversy here and here.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: 9/11

soundoff (324 Responses)
  1. ?.?

    *
    B'H

    NEWS RELEASE: JERUSLAEM, ISRAEL
    18:16
    ReportedNews Brief
    9/3/2012, Elul 16, 5772

    MKs to Discuss 'Deterioration' of Relations With US

    MKs will meet next week to discuss Israel's current relationship with the United States. The special session will be held next Wednesday, and was called by Kadima MKs, to discuss “the drastic deterioration of relations between Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and President Barack H. Obama

    THANK YOU FOR KEEPING MY NAME IN YOUR PLATORM.

    B"H

    PLEASE ASK THE CANDIDATE THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.

    JONATHAN POLLARD HAS SPENT ENOUGH TIME IN PRISON.

    IT IS TIME THAT HE IS PARDONED.

    WILL THE PRESIDENT PARDON JONTATHAN POLLARD ON

    THE PLATFORM OF HUMANITARIANISM

    WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO LET
    JONATHAN POLLARD GO BACK TO ISRAEL
    WITH HIS WIFE ESTER AND LIVE THEIR LIVES IN
    ISRAEL ONCE IF POSSIBLE THE PRESIDENT
    AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE TO THIS.
    LET MY PEOPLE GO. PLEASE PARDON JONATHAN POLLARD
    MR. PRESIDENT.

    THE SPEECH THAT WAS MADE IN CAIRO
    THAT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT
    HUSSEIN OBAMA MADE IN EGYPT.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBZhTaf1oU&w=640&h=360]

    DOES THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

    DOES HE AND THE REST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE

    WANT THE TORAH?

    DO THEY WANT THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM AND DOES THE WORLD AND WILL YOU PLEASE
    ASK MR. ROMNEY, AND HIS CONVENTION THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.

    WE THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM
    WE WANT TO GET PERMISSION FROM THE WORLD TO
    BUILD THE 3RD TEMPLE.

    WE WANT TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION TO THE WORLD
    THROUGH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    THE TEMPLE INSITUTE IN JERSUSALEM WILL HELP THE
    MINISTRY OF EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES WITH
    PERMISSION.

    MR. ROMNEY THE FOLLOWING QUESTION IS DIRECTED TO YOU.

    DO YOU MOURN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SECOND TEMPLE AND WILL YOU ALLOW THE ISRAELITES, THE LEVIHIM AND THE KOHANIM TO SERVE HASHEM IN THE LAND

    B"H

    IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE

    PLEASE ASK THE CANDIDATE THE FOLLOWING QUESTION.
    JONATHAN POLLARD HAS SPENT ENOUGH TIME IN PRISON.
    IT IS TIME THAT HE IS PARDONED

    LET MY PEOPLE GO SENETOR HILLIARY CLINTON AND hussein OBAMA. LET JONATHAN POLLARD GO NOW
    LET MY PEOLE GO

    Rabbi Chaim Richman answers President Obama's Cairo speech

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBZhTaf1oU&w=640&h=360]

    WORLD VS ISRAEL. HILLARY CLINTON-THIS IS A MESSAGE FOR YOU – LET MY PEOPLE GO. FREE JONATHAN POLLARD NOW. LET MY PEOPLE GO BARRAK HUSSEIN OBAMA – NOW!
    The Land of Israel is the Promised Land given to our forefathers Abraham Isaac and Jacob and is given to us, their seed, as an everlasting Inheritance.

    MAZEL TOV.

    MR. ROMNEY, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    LET MY PEOPLE GO SENETOR HILLIARY CLINTON
    AND PRESIDENT OBAMA. LET JONATHAN POLLARD GO NOW
    LET JONATHAN POLLARD GO NOW.

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyBZhTaf1oU&w=640&h=360]

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2012/07/29/sot-romney-blitzer-irsael.cnn

    NEWS RELEASE: JERUSLAEM, ISRAEL
    18:16
    ReportedNews Brief
    9/3/2012, Elul 16, 5772

    MKs to Discuss 'Deterioration' of Relations With US

    MKs will meet next week to discuss Israel's current relationship with the United States. The special session will be held next Wednesday, and was called by Kadima MKs, to discuss “the drastic deterioration of relations between Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and President Barack H. Obama

    http://www.cnn.com
    http://www.cnn.com

    September 10, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
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    October 26, 2011 at 6:22 am |
  3. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Is there ANYONE more boring than herbert juarez? I mean, really? What snooze.

    September 11, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • captain america

      Herbert kicked your butt again Tom?

      September 14, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
  4. Taknihim

    I wish we could just kill every muslim!!! It would solve so many issues!!!

    September 11, 2011 at 2:22 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Why?

      September 11, 2011 at 2:58 am |
    • Al

      So you tell Even that he's retarded and then you make this statement? Please tell us more professor.

      September 11, 2011 at 3:37 am |
    • John Richardson

      Sometimes one has to wonder how civilization ever made it this far considering what some people think would SOLVE problems. Yeah, stamp out hate and violence by murdering 1.5 billion people. I mean, the creepiness is screamingly obvious, but the sheer stupidity of the inherent self-contradiction screams almost as loudly.

      September 11, 2011 at 4:26 am |
    • Skep

      It would make more sense to let all the religions themselves die off. The people aren't necessarily the problem except that no one has the capability to overcome their limitations. We still fling poo and other naastay stuff at other people. Don't go thinking we're all super-beings, here.

      September 11, 2011 at 4:38 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Oh right. How can anyone be SO fricking stupid. If YOU decide it's OK to kill them today, then what's to prevent someone else from deciding tomorrow YOU are the unacceptable one. Go buy a brain somewhere, PLEASE.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      for brain purchase story see more than 1000 turn out for multifaith 9/11 event

      September 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
  5. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    How interesting! Heaven Stink is pro-choice after all! As long as she gets to choose who is aborted, that is.

    September 10, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      You mean Bejar? What an oinker she is. Oh golly. She did not descend from the apes... they will never admit that. If anything SHE is an argument against evolution .. but if God created her (it) He has a remarkable sense of perverse humor (including the entire "V" line up) Bah-bwa too .. and all of the .. never-been-kissed panel.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:06 am |
  6. Evan

    I find it almost humorous that Atheists condemn religion for being immoral, yet isn't Atheism the belief that rejects morality as completely meaningless?

    September 10, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
    • John Richardson

      No, it isn't. But thanks for playing!

      September 10, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • ROFLOL

      Hilarious straw man argument there, Evan. Don't let the real world get in the way of your delusions.

      September 10, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Oh true. If there is no God there is no sin. Civilized behavior is merely a matter of law and ethics. We are woefully aware of how much the many "Codes of Ethics" men to professions and trades. Which is why there are laws and courts to enforce them and billionaires routinely going off to prisons (as money tempered their adherence to ethics). The man of the street does not profess ethics, of course, so their behavior is constrained only by law and by what they can get away with - includes using mannequins to drive in the HOV lanes, road rage (assaults), DUI, texting while driving, meth, pot dispensaries under the fiction of illness, employee theft (in the millions), phony handicapped hangers .. and don't the mortgage fraud they ALL did to get bigger home mortgages with miserable credit ...it sound noble to say we are self regulating and naturally good .. but we know we are not.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:01 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      I think it is particularly insane when some war atrocity is uncovered that every last lefty becomes morally indignant. W.T Sherman said it "war is h*l* " and on top of that it is insane (not to mention a threat to species). So the time for moral indignity (which never happens) is when war is being declared. At that point everyone is for it .. flags waving .. bands playing .. politicians waving fists. THEN .. sooner or later .. somebody gets killed against the rule (the rules?? what rules??) and oh the out cry. That is so insane. Absolutely defies any kind of rationality or morality. And we are not finished .. it goes on and on .. and more wars starting up every day. Every country and every religion and every atheist is doing it. Everybody is selling weapons and supplies. Everybody wants it.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:13 am |
    • Taknihim

      Evan you are retarded, nice try

      September 11, 2011 at 2:23 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Evan

      W T F...? Please elaborate...

      Regards,

      Peace...

      September 11, 2011 at 2:30 am |
    • John Richardson

      @RTC Just because YOU can't imagine any reason to act decent and civilized without the threat of some big guy in the sky ready to kick you @$$ for transgressing, that doesn't mean others can't. There is a vast literature on ethics that don't evoke god and societies the world over and throughout time that have created formal or informal laws/rules of conduct not grounded in theology. It's untrue and frankly irresponsible to assert otherwise.

      September 11, 2011 at 4:22 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      WHAT??? Atheism has nothing to do with rejecting morality...it is the rejection of god. Not all christians are immoral, the way of thinking and supporting a book full of crimes against humanity is immoral. You look ignorant with you comment and that would lead most to believe that you are still a little boy, attached to the churches apron-strings.! Put down your book of stupidity and do your homework little one...you need a real education

      September 11, 2011 at 7:44 am |
    • Evan

      I find it funny that you guys call me stupid and then take no time to even refute my argument. This is what is called an "Ad Hominem" attack.

      "There is a vast literature on ethics that don't evoke god and societies the world over and throughout time that have created formal or informal laws/rules of conduct not grounded in theology"

      I assure you that I know more about secular ethics than you do, and it all amounts to moral Nihilism; that is the belief that all morality is baseless and meaningless. No moral decision we make has any meaning in a world without God. We may conform to what society deems as "moral" only out of fear of punishment and the desire for reward. The only reason one would act moral on the Atheistic worldview is for pure self interest. Furthermore, we don't even have free-will, and therefore aren't even responsible for our own actions, as every decision we make is based on electrobiochemical reactions in our brain. Whenever we do something wrong, we can blame it on a "brain malfunction". That's what Atheist philosopher Freidrich Neitzche feared: the death of God would mean the death of man.

      "Atheism has nothing to do with rejecting morality...it is the rejection of god"

      The rejection of God is the reject of morality. That is not to say that Atheists are immoral, but that it is say that "moral" means nothing on the Atheistic worldview.

      September 11, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Wrong. Take an anthropology course, idiot.

      September 11, 2011 at 7:42 pm |
    • Evan is a High School Moron

      Evan is a high schooler. Not at all shocking that he thinks he knows everything about everything, and that he is smarter than everyone else.

      September 11, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Evan

      Hey -Evan...

      You Said: " isn't Atheism the belief that rejects morality as completely meaningless? "

      I said: "W T F ? Please elaborate.

      Peace...

      ----------------------------------------------------–

      Then @Evan You Said: " I find it funny that you guys call me stupid and then take no time to even refute my argument. "

      Well, I certainly didn't call you stupid nor attack you, as you can see. And for the record, if you've seen enough of my postings, rarely do I resort to ad hom attacks. On occasion, I'm certain I probably have over the years. However, It is just not my style. If I'm commenting on something, it is usually because I am sincerely interested. I asked you for more information, as you made a statement to me that didn't make sense...to me. Hence, the request for more information.

      And also, I'm not necessarily here to 'refute' your argument, but to hopefully have us 'both' and 'others' coming away from this dialogue having *learned* from each other.

      So, I'm very interested in your opinion about all of this. As this is a very important and interesting topic to me and many others here.
      ------------------------------------------------------

      Then @Evan You Said: " I assure you that I know more about secular ethics than you do, and it all amounts to moral Nihilism; that is the belief that all morality is baseless and meaningless. No moral decision we make has any meaning in a world without God.
      We may conform to what society deems as "moral" only out of fear of punishment and the desire for reward. The only reason one would act moral on the Atheistic worldview is for pure self interest. "

      So, obviously... I can only speak for myself here, and while those may be some of the more 'formal' structured frames regarding such things (Nihilism), I think that there may be broader 'frameworks' to place around those strict guidelines. As in... maybe the way's I act and behave don't fit within 'Nihilistic' frameworks.

      I, personally, certainly have no sense or belief that "morality is baseless or meaningless." I believe 'morality' to be extremely important, and strive to live a moral life, beneficial to all.

      The very exact same thing gets stated here by many of 'faith' that don't seem to understand how it could be possible that people could behave in moral ways without a God.

      It appears to me that on the one hand you are stating that somehow, atheists 'only' live their lives morally because of 'fear' or 'reward.' The very 'same' logical level type argument can and is made regarding those of 'faith'... they 'only' live moral lives because of the 'fear or punishment' of not believing in Jesus as their savior, so they will "burn for eternity" or the 'reward'... "believe" in Jesus and you get to go to Heaven and be with Jesus and God for eternity.

      I've been posting on these blogs since almost the very beginning when it started. A year and 3 or 4 month now. And, I'm telling you, I can't remember how many times those of 'faith' have used that very argument as the 'reasons' they 'believe' and more importantly as to your interesting question on 'Morality'... that the 'reason' they are 'moral' is because they 'believe' they are told to by God... and they either will "burn" (punishment) or "believe" (reward)... therefore 'that' is 'why' they act in moral ways. That 'is' what they say 'motivates' them. So, 'reward' and 'punishment.'

      So... what's the difference...?

      Again, not speaking for all agnostics or atheists here, I absolutely act morally, 'because' I believe it to be the 'right' 'good' 'kind' thing to do... not to mention, that and this may be one of the more important points here... Is that I act 'morally' as it (is) *meaning* to me. It gives me a sense of 'contributing' to Life, Society, my Loved ones, Friends, etc...

      So, by doing for others loving and kind acts... would you consider that "self-serving"...?

      There are certainly other philosophical world-views and models that state that 'everyone' does 'everything' they do for 'themselves.' So, that would include believer and non-believer alike. What's the difference if you give to the poor or I give to the poor...? We are doing what we consider moral, and I'm certainly not doing it out of some fear... I do it because "I" believe it to be the right, the good, the kind, the loving thing to do.

      Please tell me... how do we differ here in our giving...?

      I don't know if this is the 'only' life, or if there is an 'after-life'... But, to live a life of goodness, love, kindness, caring, compassion, just seems to give me *meaning* and seems to be one of the ways we help "make a difference" here on this wonderful planet Earth.

      Whether we have one life and this is it, or some kind of after-life.

      So, 'living morally and ethically' ...is... part and parcel of what gives me *meaning* and seems to be one of the greatest ways to contribute to society as a whole.

      Anyway, -Evan, that is 'my' particular take on this. I'm am 'sincerely' interested in your opinions too.

      I hope that you make it back to further the discussion. I believe it to be important, let alone fascinating.

      Respectfully,

      Peace...

      September 12, 2011 at 1:53 am |
  7. gupsphoo

    9/11 serves as a reminder how dangerous religion can be – as long as you believe there's a higher being somewhere out there giving you orders that you absolutely must follow, you would be able to put aside your own sense of morality and follow that "order".

    The world would be a much better place if everyone could think for themselves.

    September 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
  8. Reality

    The Book of Revelation is even more insane than the Gospels of M, M, L and J.

    Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

    Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.

    Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about the Lion of Judah who is the seven horned Lamb with seven eyes and also bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah, white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

    So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher man or the author of Revelation would say?

    September 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      repeat post copy paste spam, hit report abuse

      September 10, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Herbert Juarez

      Hey -Herbert...

      Obviously, you are free to do what you want, but doesn't this kind go along the lines of 'stifling free speech' here, with what you are proposing...?

      I mean, that is @Reality's 'style' is to do a lot of 're-posting' of the same articles, postings, comments, etc...

      You may not like it, but ya' don't have to read it.

      Again... you are free to do what you want, but I might respectfully suggest that bypassing someone's posting rather than trying to get them banned just because you don't like the content, or their repeti-tion just doesn't seem like in the spirit of allowing free speech (IMHO).

      Respectfully,

      Peace...

      September 10, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Think About It

      @herbert juarez...

      Peace2all is correct. Perhaps you, herbert, are one of the regulars here who haunts the comment section, but I'm sure that there are new readers stopping in all the time.

      I think @Reality's posts are quite interesting.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, go get your oil can, your bones are too brittle.

      I am sorry you can't fathom the awesomeness of His being.

      Amen.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Peace2All (that's if you aren't really RealityNot) GIVE IT A REST. Reality never discusses his post with anyone, but he demanded that we replied with answers that we learned over the years of reading Jesus' truth. Then he turns around and posts the same nonsense over and over and over again on new articles that come on this site. It's never ending his one sided discussions.

      Amen.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • Reality

      As we move along with rational thinking, conclusions and reiteration to counter the millennia of false and flawed religious history and theology!!!------––

      September 11, 2011 at 12:18 am |
    • Peace2All

      @HeavenSent

      Hey there -HeavenSent...

      Again, as I suggested to -Herbert, I would like to offer you the same: Ya' don't have to read someone's posting if you don't want to. So, if you don't like @Reality's postings, ... simply don't read it...nor respond to them !

      Just because @Reality posts the way he does, and you or someone else doesn't like it, shouldn't *mean* that you just get to 'ban his posts.' I mean, you can... you are certainly 'free' to make that choice, but again, I can't emphasize enough of how hitting the 'report abuse' button just because you don't like the 'way' or 'content' that they posts smacks so very much of trying to 'squelch his free speech.'

      Let me give you another example. I 'know'... that 'you know' that there are quite a number of people that probably don't like what you post. As you tend to post the same 'bible verses' and explanations over and over again. Should we all hit the 'report abuse' button, just because we don't like your postings...? Of course not. You've got as much of a right to state your...'opinions' as anyone else, including Reality.

      And... for the record, yes... he does at times come out and have a dialogue when someone apparently offers him something that he sees fit to respond to. But, again... it really doesn't matter in the overall point being made here.

      Respectfully,

      Peace...

      September 11, 2011 at 2:12 am |
    • Chuck L

      Peace2All – Excellent post!

      September 11, 2011 at 3:07 am |
    • J.W

      I think I would agree with that Peace. However sometimes I see people comment on what Reality posts but he never responds to their questions. He should talk more about what he posts sometimes.

      September 11, 2011 at 3:12 am |
    • Peace2All

      @J.W.

      " I think I would agree with that Peace. However sometimes I see people comment on what Reality posts but he never responds to their questions. He should talk more about what he posts sometimes. "

      Well, J.W. my point being again is... really more about people choosing to hit the 'report abuse' button, just because they don't like the 'way' someone posts, such as Reality's often useage of cutting and pasting the same things over again.

      He has a right to do it 'whatever way' he chooses. 'You' and -HeavenSent, and anyone else that doesn't like the 'way' Reality posts gets to... 'choose' whether or not to post or not. And that goes for 'all' of us here on the belief blog. Thousands of people posting in many different ways. Some are hit and run posters, some virtually never respond, some respond to almost everything, etc... etc... I think you get the point.

      Heck, many posters like myself, and I'm guessing you too, quite often have multiple conversations going at once. And, I know a lot of us don't always make it back to respond...and... I often have people 'not' respond to my questions or attempts at responding to their posts.

      It 'is' their 'choice'... just like it is your 'choice' whether to respond to Reality or not.

      As to whether or not..."He should talk more about what he posts"... well, that is certainly your 'opinion' that really has no bearing on the overall point of 'free speech' here. I respect your 'opinion'... but again, that is for Reality to decide.

      Reality can post any way he chooses... and... I'm guessing that he really does realize that some people may get annoyed by the 'way' he posts, but if 'he' doesn't care... then so be it.

      I'm also sure he realizes that... there 'may' come a time when 'no one' will want to respond to him because of how he posts.

      However, again... no reason to hit the 'report abuse' button. Now that just ain't right (IMHO).

      Respectfully,

      Peace...

      September 11, 2011 at 3:26 am |
    • J.W

      Yeah I know Peace. The only ones I hit report abuse on are the butterfly videos. or the people just trying to be stupid. I probably lose track of conversations I agree. What I usually try to do is look at the side where it has the most recent comments and click on each one of those. I am sure I miss some if I get into a particular conversation.

      September 11, 2011 at 3:35 am |
  9. kimsland

    I feel that all religious people should hold their heads in shame
    What we should do is rub religious peoples noses into the that sh!t of a place they call church, then say NO to them.
    Churchies must learn that jesus lied just to save his mom. And he was a coward, he couldn't even fight for his own life. What a LOSER.

    September 10, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>"I feel that all religious people should hold their heads in shame"

      And all Whites should hold their heads in shame because a white guy ki'lled Martin Luther King

      All African Americans should hold their heads in shame because of the beatings of Reginald Denny and or blindly following the Democratic Party.

      Ja'panese Americans should hold their heads in shame because just like the Muslims that attacked on 9/11, I guess according to kimsland, it does not matter if they were American's or not.... so shame upon the Ja'panese Americans.

      Hmmm.......... rolling Trails of Tears and the treatment of Native Americans, ... kimsland, we are going to have a bunch of folks running into things because pretty all of us have our heads hung in shame.

      Other month on another blog it was that all "men" should hang our heads in shame because of the treatment of women through out history. sigh ....

      But, it is nice to see folks like you dancing for the Belief Blog editors... do not worry though ... we should have a "My Take Thread" popping up soon and trolls like you can start all over again.

      l'Chaim

      September 10, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • JohnR

      Kimsland! I HOPE that isn't how you housebroke the dog you mentioned "training" a few days ago. I can refer you to some civilized dog training sites, if you wish!

      Back on topic: Seriously, get a grip on your anger. There's a lot to object to in religion, but this sort of collective guilt mongering and expressions of a desire to castigate and literally assault people (yes, grabbing people and rubbing their noses in ANYTHING is assault, indeed battery!) may give you some sort of adrenalin, but it's really dragging an already pretty low brow discussion into the gutter.

      September 10, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Kimsland, how about we charge you non-believers with stealing Jesus' wisdom, renaming it, and calling it your own?

      Hypocrite.

      Amen.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Mark from Middle River, Not all Black Americans blindly follow the dems no more than all White Americans blindly follow the repuds.

      September 10, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • Toomin

      Careful there, JohnQuest!
      Mark likes to insinuate that others are extremists with Nazi leanings and are only minutes away from committing genocide no matter what they actually say.
      Anyone who disagrees with Mark is obviously an extremist or a Nazi or KKK member. Don't forget!

      September 10, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Toomin, Thank you, Mark does speak like a right winger when he has his hackles up.

      September 10, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Mark is African American, Christian and somewhat conservative in his politics, but has displayed an open-minded, welcoming att-itude to, eg, gas and lesbians that is quite untypical of the Christians on this blog. His own journey began with exposure to a lot of angry, black separatist politics that he has, to his credit, rejected. He is one of very few people on this blog who has made friends "across the aisle". I criticize a lot of his thinking and he has criticized a lot of mine, but I consider him a man of integrity.

      September 10, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • John Richardson

      That's GAYS and lesbians. Yeesh!!!!!

      September 10, 2011 at 7:54 pm |
    • Fred1

      @ Heaven Sent:
      How about we charge jesus with stealing the wisdom of the Torah and calling it his own

      September 10, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Nothing's been plundered quite like Zoroastrianism!

      September 10, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Thanks John.... Much respect dude.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:41 am |
    • Skep

      Naivete is the other side of skepticism, JR.
      If the improvements you allude to are not play-acting in a few spots, I would be much surprised.
      Integrity can be unethical, or hasn't it occurred to you? Didn't think so.

      September 11, 2011 at 3:14 am |
    • laura

      not sure what you meant by Jesus lied to save His mom. i know you are not going to believe this, but Jesus came to die for the sins of humanity so that we may eventually have eternal life. God sacrificed His Son as our Passover; He know full well what would happen, but all is for the greater good.

      September 11, 2011 at 9:19 am |
  10. Chad

    When did we start becoming ashamed of being a nation based on Judeo-Christian values?

    September 10, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • The Whizzo Chocolate Company

      Freedom of religion is not a Judeo-Christian value. It is an Enlightenment value.
      Freedom of speech is not a Judeo-Christian value. It is an Enlightenment value.

      That's true for all the amendments.

      September 10, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • TransformoSquirrels Are Go ! ! !

      Are you the Dangling Chad we have been hearing so much about?

      September 10, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • Byrd

      We stopped when the Judeo-Christian values you mentioned started including things like hatred-filled intolerance, abhorrence of education and demonization of the poor and everyone without a flag decal or plastic Jesus on their dashboard. Look to theyselves, ye casting the stones.

      September 10, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Chad, only those that are made to feel ashamed and accept that shame carry that burden.

      >>>”values you mentioned started including things like hatred-filled intolerance, abhorrence of education and demonetization of the poor and everyone without a flag decal or plastic Jesus on their dashboard. “

      Hate filled intolerance? After a year on the Belief Blog, there are sects of Atheitism that are just as intolerant of folks as the 700 club and Westburo Baptist side of those of Faith. In the past few months we have heard more sad souls on the Atheist side put out a call for places of Faith to be burned and even for the extermination of those of Faith.

      Abhorrence of Education.? Yeah, I guess that is why those kids in Parochial schools score on average better than those in public school and their rate of students continuing to college is also higher.

      Demonetization of the Poor? Well, my church denomination has come from the poor and ones that society has left behind. We have churches in the inner city and all the way to small country churches. Also, our outreach ministries, like other churches, temples and mosques... step up to the plate often with feeding and counseling to the poor you speak of? Can you give an example of a church demonetizing the poor?

      >>>” everyone without a flag decal or plastic Jesus on their dashboard”

      I'm going to tell my Hispanic Neighbor you said that ….. can you give me your address in Berkley California so he can come and drive over your Prius with his F350. 🙂

      September 10, 2011 at 12:44 pm |
    • Ben

      Christianity is all about shame. That relgion can't exist without preying on guilt.

      And our nation is not based on Judeo-Christian values. That is a false claim that idiot Christians make a lot. See earlier post by The Whizzo...

      September 10, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>"Christianity is all about shame."

      Is it? What church have you been attending? One of those "Hand of an Angry God" churches?

      September 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Chad, when the bad behaviored children that rebel against society as they sit in their parents living rooms stuffing potato chips down their throats, never to get a job and complain 24/7 about EVERY THING and ANY THING just to make them feel like they are alive ... were born.

      Amen.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:45 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @The Whizzo Chocolate Company

      You Said: " Freedom of religion is not a Judeo-Christian value. It is an Enlightenment value.
      Freedom of speech is not a Judeo-Christian value. It is an Enlightenment value.

      That's true for all the amendments. "

      Very well said ! 😀

      Regards,

      Peace...

      September 10, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Mark from Middle River, an honest assessment of Christianity (all forms, Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox etc...) will reveal that without guilt Christianity would not exist, it would not have made it pass the second century. We would be basing our calendar on some other arbitrary concept.

      September 10, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Hi John Quest. The Guilt issue is interesting because there are still “Fire and Brimstone” and “Hand of an Angry God” types of pastors out there. I remember I caught a Pastor on TV, I think his name was Hagee. That guy scared me with his style of preaching. Then there are pastors that I have heard that are the total opposite. Steve Harvey said in a comedy act that the pastor spoke of God as if he were a friend coming over your house for coffee.

      My Pastor is different, his sermons often bore me but his one on one dialogue of Faith and motivation for Faith outreach in the community is what keeps me a member of my church. Plus, when I used to hear folks talk about how rich, some Pastors are, I remember that our pastor has a huge church and it took his wife to finally pry the steering wheel of his second or third year Subaru Forrester away from him. Now he is in a two generation back Jeep Cherokee. 🙂 Maybe that is why I am often taken back when some say that all of Christendom is the same. While there are churches that go out and march against Gay and Lesbians most of the churches in my denomination are too busy with other ministries and using the Church as another force helping our community.

      The question is motivation. The philosopher Descartes, I believe, questioned the motivation on why we, as humans, do what we do. I might feel that I help around the church for guilt. The question, I would ask, is it guilt because of disappointing God by not helping or is it the guilt of someone that has a roof over their head trying to help those that are hungry and do not have a roof over their head?

      Or is it a bit of both?

      I just do not have that image of the Spanish inquisition type of church, with ministers shouting and castigating their congregations from the pulpit with images of the congregation with their heads in their hand in shame. I am sure there are some out . I have not been to every church but, I just have not witnessed it and each Sunday I currently have not experienced such.

      l'Chaim
      --

      Also, John Richardson, much respect and thanks.

      September 11, 2011 at 1:40 am |
  11. herbert juarez

    @peace2all
    End of days simply refers to this dispensation,from the advent to the return.That time period is not given to us.Planning to jump back on board at the last possible minute?Seriously, Revelation is worth an occasional read.God bless

    September 10, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Herbert

      *See my response to your posting here... 'below' under our the original thread and conversation.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      September 10, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Ben

      herbert, cease with the sickening "god bless" already. Your god can kiss my as-s except that he doesn't exist.

      Hey, next time you're on your knees praying, thank god for the wildfires and hurricanes -not. And think about why your god wants you on your knees.

      September 10, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      Hey ben
      bite me

      September 10, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      reply to ben was a little harsh, let me rephrase my sentiments
      hey ben
      bite me
      God bless

      September 10, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Herbert 😀 Have to admit it! You made me laugh this time!

      September 10, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
  12. Byrd

    Okay, a priest , a rabbi and an imam walk into a black hole...

    For ten years now, you people have been walking around a hole in the ground that the media and government won't let you forget. You all might as well be Muslims walking in circles around the Black Stone in Mecca. The psychological effect is exactly the same if they succede in planting that cross, so Christians in America and Muslims have much more in common than you might have thought.. Why else did you think construction has taken so long? They find the hole in your brains much more useful to exploit for their sinister purposes. Kinda like a blcak hole, it just sucks you in until judgment is actually suspended. It's pretty much given them free rein to do anything they want. Just as they've been doing for far too long.

    Islam has the word jihad to stir up its people in times of perceived emergency and the Freemasons needed a symbol like that that they could use on us as well. So they invented 9/11which is conveniently and forever associated with the thought "emergency" in the minds of all Americans. Now they can turn many of you on just like Islam can turn on its followers. And what does this ultimately promise for mankind? Eternal conflict that they manage and have been for quite awhile. I really hate Freemasons. There's a Freemason in the Ailes House and he's been whizzin' in your beer.

    September 10, 2011 at 11:29 am |
    • JohnR

      Oh, shut up. The Freemasons. How do you know it wasn't the Rotarians? The Kiwanis Club? The Moose?

      September 10, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>"For ten years now, you people have been walking around a hole in the ground that the media and government won't let you forget."

      First, that is a deep imagry but in Hawaii we have the Arizona memorial, do you feel the same way about that site?

      September 10, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
  13. RightTurnClyde

    Reduced to A Old Fashioned Political Soap Box .. what they have done is co-opted the 9/11 commemoration into a political blabber. If they went to Central Park there would not be a crowd. But at WTC they have a crowd..so they can skip honorng anyone and get right to bragadosio and self congratulation .. votes, votes, votes ..

    September 10, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • The Ugly Truth

      Ever since 9/12, 9/11 has been about manipulating people into throwing away their rights and embarking on war, torture, imprisonment without trial, surveillance, further loss of privacy, and obeying. 9/11 is about fear, both the terror brought by madmen, and the terror exploited by powers in this country for their own benefit.

      Corporations and the right wingers have profitted massively from 9/11. The country in general is the worse for that exploitation.

      September 10, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • JohnQuest

      The Ugly Truth, hear hear, truer words have never been spoken!!!!

      September 10, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
  14. Reality

    The following sign should be projected on walls of the 9/11 Memorial starting Sunday and lasting forever:

    SAVING 1.5 BILLION LOST MUSLIMS:
    THERE NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE ANY ANGELS I.E. NO GABRIEL, NO ISLAM AND THEREFORE NO MORE KORANIC-DRIVEN ACTS OF HORROR AND TERROR LIKE 9/11

    SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:
    THERE WERE NEVER ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY

    SAVING 15.5 MILLION ORTHODOX FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM:
    ABRAHAM AND MOSES PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED.

    Added details upon request.

    next topic!!

    September 10, 2011 at 8:23 am |
  15. brian

    Tell me, HeavenSent, under what context is it okay to murder children and pregnant women? And don't give me some elliptical reply that doesn't answer my question.

    September 10, 2011 at 4:59 am |
    • Carla

      Brian, Israel eliminated the child-killing perv tribes for one time in history. God specified the tribes in order to protect the future generations, other tribes and also the land itself with its creatures. It is up to God to use floods, fires, or wars to eliminate certain groups of people off from the earth when certain sins irreversibly reach certain level. In each case, God takes care of the innocent casualty; we know it from Psalms. Today, we apply the war principles as eliminating any forms of sin in our personal lives. You should worry about your homeland instead of complaining about the Canaanites. All nations face judgment from God for mistreating Israel and other evils.

      September 10, 2011 at 5:17 am |
    • Reality

      Carla, the red-neck lady of many names in her usual rant of inanity !!

      September 10, 2011 at 8:25 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Honestly Brian, I'll go carnal on this answer. The day you were born.

      Amen.

      September 10, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
  16. bigwilliestyles

    The "Book" of Revelation reads as it were written by someone tripping on acid as he smoke a joint of PCP laced with crack on a drunken binge.

    September 10, 2011 at 4:57 am |
    • brian

      A lot of Christians don't know this; they've never read it.

      September 10, 2011 at 5:00 am |
    • Carla

      Revelation says no such thing. It says countries like USA will be punished.

      September 10, 2011 at 5:09 am |
    • Reality

      "Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]

      Martin Luther "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]

      September 10, 2011 at 8:26 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @Carla: WRONG!!! It doesn't say countries like the USA...in fact it doesn't mention any country by name.

      September 10, 2011 at 9:03 am |
    • Carla

      Reality never read anything wholly but always only a few lines out of context. Thus everything is misquoted by him. @T-P-, read Revelation 9:20-21. It is a picture of secular USA.

      September 10, 2011 at 9:44 am |
    • herbert juarez

      @truthprevails
      Truth?There are several references to countries in Revelation.Revelation 20:8 "and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth_Gog and Magog_to gather them for battle."For someone who uses "truth" as a screen name you sure get caught in a lot of lies.

      September 10, 2011 at 10:01 am |
    • Peace2All

      @herbert juarez

      Hey -Herbert...

      " Truth?There are several references to countries in Revelation.Revelation 20:8 "and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth_Gog and Magog_to gather them for battle."

      So, i'm curious as to what you think this means...? Are you suggesting (or not) that this somehow represents what is going on now...? And... of course involves the U.S., etc...?

      Curious.

      Peace...

      September 10, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • herbert juarez

      @peace2all
      Revelation has the capacity to lend itself well to all eras of history but the text quoted is time specific.Revelation20:7"When the thousand years are over Satan will be released from his prison (8)and will go out to deceive the nations..."so these particular events are not meant until after the millenium.Unless coded the USA is not mentioned by name in Revelation,and i personally have no knowledge as to where we are regarding the end of this dispensation.I would suppose we are getting closer to the end.Have you read Revelation?

      September 10, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Herbert Juarez

      Yes, I have read the whole Bible actually. I used to be a Christian, went to Christian schools etc...

      It's been a long time though since reading Revelation.

      As for the timing aspect of the 'end of days' thing, as you said, it could be used at different time periods, and seemingly does.

      I'm just not so sure why many, or most Christians think that 'now' we are somehow in the 'end of days' or the 'beginning of the end times' etc...?

      Regards,

      Peace...

      September 10, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • herbert juarez

      @peace2all
      Posted as its own thread oops.Revelation is worth reading from time to time.It is the only Bible book that promises a blessing to the reader.End of days,simply refers to this dispensation,the time period between the advent and the return.We are not given that length,but there are clues to be found in scripture.Planning to jump ship at the last possible moment?God bless.

      September 10, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • Peace2All

      @herbert juarez

      You Said: " End of Days simply refers to this dispensation,from the advent to the return.That time period is not given to us. "

      So, again... i'm curious as to why there are (seemingly a majority) of Christians that seem to believe that this is all happening or beginning to happen now...?

      You Said: " Seriously, Revelation is worth an occasional read. "

      Why do you find Revelation to be worth the read...? It seems to be written so va-guely, and open to extreme interpretation.

      Also, I just can't seem to get behind a 'loving and kind beyond understanding...Jesus' all of a sudden bursting from the clouds with whatever is coming out of his mouth, being the 'warrior Christ' out to slay all of the non-believers, just because... they didn't happen to actually, 'believe'. It just doesn't make 'any' sense to me on any level of analysis.

      You Said: " Planning to jump back on board at the last possible minute? "

      Well, 'when' exactly would that 'last possible minute be'...? I mean, even I gotta' admit, if I saw warrior Jesus descending from the clouds with a host of angels, I might have to do some serious reconsideration.

      Or... check and see if someone has laced my drink with an hallucinogen !

      Regards,

      Peace...

      Seriously, Revelation is worth an occasional read.God bless

      September 10, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • herbert juarez

      @peace2all
      By the time you check your drink it would be too late.Read Revelation=get blessing, did you miss that part?God bless

      September 10, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Reality

      The Book of Revelation is even more insane than the Gospels of M, M, L and J.

      Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

      Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.

      Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about the Lion of Judah who is the seven horned Lamb with seven eyes and also bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah, white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

      So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher man or the author of Revelation would say?

      September 10, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      the best response to reality copy paste is to hit report abuse,it is all spam

      September 10, 2011 at 12:44 pm |
    • JohnR

      That's the beauty of apocolyptic va-gueness. There are noodleheads in every generation who leap to the conclusion that the times referred to in the "prophecy" are their own.

      I knew an Evangelical Christian who tried to convince me the end was nigh by quoting Christ's reference to "this" generation not passing before his prophecy comes true. Repeated attempts to explain that he said "this generation" to people who lived almost 2000 years ago (assuming the story is true, of course!) failed to make a dent. And that explains a lot. Truly, biblical literalism is easiest to swallow amongst the stupidest amongst us.

      September 10, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
    • Smite Me

      herbert: I'll bet it gives you a real buzz and feeling of power every time you hit that "Report Abuse" button, huh? You little worm. Shall non-believers do the same with ad-nauseum Bible quote spam?

      September 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @smiteme
      Whatever trips your trigger,free speech includes calling bs ,bs.All opinions and a buck will get you something from the dollar menu at Mc Donalds.

      September 10, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      @Herbert: really? which translation here says that? nowhere in any of the following translations does it specify a country and btw since you are all knowing (NOT), which is the true translation?

      New International Version (©1984)
      and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth–Gog and Magog–to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

      New Living Translation (©2007)
      He will go out to deceive the nations–called Gog and Magog–in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle–a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore.

      English Standard Version (©2001)
      and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

      New American Standard Bible (©1995)
      and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

      International Standard Version (©2008)
      He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

      GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
      He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations in the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They will be as numerous as the grains of sand on the seashore.

      King James Bible
      And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      American King James Version
      And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      American Standard Version
      and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      Bible in Basic English
      And will go out to put in error the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to get them together to the war, the number of whom is like the sands of the sea.

      Douay-Rheims Bible
      And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city.

      Darby Bible Translation
      and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

      English Revised Version
      and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      Webster's Bible Translation
      And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      Weymouth New Testament
      and will go out to lead astray the nations in all the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, and assemble them for war, and they are like the sands on the seashore in number.

      World English Bible
      and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

      Young's Literal Translation
      and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - to gather them together to war, of whom the number is as the sand of the sea

      September 10, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @truthprevails
      Gog and Magog are the nations mentioned in that reference.What is the problem?Virtually every reference said that.That is one heck of a debate style you got there "truth" you confirmed your own stupidity repeatedly.

      September 10, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • Toomin

      herbert, there are no countries called "Gog" or "Magog". Maybe they were primitive city-states that went extinct. That would show that your Revelation book is mystical BS written about the nations of the old days and is completely meaningless, wouldn't it?

      September 10, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
    • *frank*

      It's very hard to be respectful of any book that talks straightfacedly of places named "Gog" and "Magog".

      September 10, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @toomin
      Or that those countries will emerge again,like say all those nations that were once part of Eastern Europe and the USSR.The original claim by "truth " was that no (as in none)nations were mentioned in Revelation.I chose those two to show his error.I did not mention Egypt which is also referenced in Revelation.Will you be posting to point out that there is no Egypt as well?God bless

      September 10, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @frank
      In the coalition of the willing Eritrea was with us.How weird is that?

      September 10, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      @Herbert: really??? stupidity??? I'm not the one sitting here making claims about a god that has never been evidenced to exist. You are the ones making the claims that science says are false...prove your damn point or shut up. If your god really wanted people to believe in it, it would show the world it exists instead of being a coward and hiding behind other people. You are an ignorant a.s.s who spews stupidity just by your belief.

      September 11, 2011 at 7:54 am |
    • herbert juarez

      @"truth"
      You were the one who offered the false opinion that there were no nations mentioned in Revelation, then posted 20 or so references to their existence.Even atheists should be bright enough to see stupid in that!Millions of people over thousands of years have testified to the existence of God.Many people have borne witness to actually seeing and touching God.Your position is as stupid as your contention there were no nations in Revelation.Actually nobody has talked science on this thread except you,look forward to you going stupid on that as well.God bless

      September 11, 2011 at 8:08 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.