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Church leadership post for an openly gay Mormon
Mitch Mayne, who is openly gay, hopes his newly assumed Mormon leadership position will increase understanding.
September 24th, 2011
10:00 PM ET

Church leadership post for an openly gay Mormon

By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

(CNN) - Early on in life, Mitch Mayne knew exactly who he was.

He would race home from school to watch reruns of “Star Trek” and swoon over his crush, Captain Kirk. At 8, after his parents converted, he was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a faith he embraced. Even after he drifted away from the LDS Church following his parents’ divorce, he came back to Mormonism on his own in his mid-20s.

It is where he feels spiritually at home, irrespective of the fact that, for the past 10 years, he’s been openly gay.

“I’m a man that lives in two worlds that a lot of people don’t think intersect,” Mayne said. “Both sides of myself exist in me. It’s part of my DNA, part of my makeup.”

Actively Mormon and openly gay: It's the sort of combo that might leave people wondering. After all, the LDS Church teaches that homosexuality, specifically if same-sex attractions are acted upon, is a sin. And the church has actively backed measures to ban same-sex marriages.

Now, Mayne finds himself in the spotlight as he embarks on a journey he says “belongs to all of us.” In mid-August he was selected, or called (as Mormons say) by local church officials to serve in an LDS Church leadership position in San Francisco.

Mayne’s appointment may have generated attention, but he’s not the first gay Mormon to assume a leadership role in the church.

In Seattle, Washington, and Oakland, California, gay men have reportedly served in LDS Church leadership roles, Peggy Fletcher Stack wrote in her piece about Mayne in The Salt Lake Tribune. What makes Mayne unique, Stack said, is that he "may be the first local LDS leader to announce his orientation over the pulpit.”

Late last month, from the pulpit, Mayne revealed - to anyone who didn't already know - who he is:

"I am a gay Latter-day Saint.

"I don't want pity. To pity me is to make me a victim. I want understanding. To understand me is to love me as an equal.

"I don't want tolerance. If I am tolerated, I am disliked in some way. I want respect as a fellow striving child of God - an equal in his eyes.

"I don't want acceptance. To accept me is to graciously grant me the favor of your company. To accept me is to marginalize me with the assumption that I am less than you. I am your peer. I am neither above you nor below you."

Mayne shared these words during a farewell address to the Oakland ward he long attended, amid an announcement that he would be leaving because he had been named the executive secretary to the bishop of the Bay Ward. It is a role in which he'll offer administrative help but also take part in shaping congregational work.

“While that’s not a big accomplishment in and of itself,” Mayne said, “it is a remarkable accomplishment for the simple fact that maybe for the first time, a man was called to a priesthood leadership position not in spite of the fact that he is gay, but partly because he is gay.”

For those unfamiliar with LDS Church vernacular, a ward is essentially a congregation or, to use Catholic terminology, a parish. Various wards fall under the auspices of a stake, the rough equivalent of a diocese. In this case, the Bay Ward is one of three wards that make up the San Francisco Stake.

The LDS Church, which entrusts local leaders to determine local callings, does not pay clergy, nor does it send would-be bishops to seminary. So Mayne, like the bishop who called him to serve, is a volunteer who works for the church on top of his full-time corporate communications job.

Don Fletcher, an ophthalmologist, said that when he was called last month to serve as the bishop and leader of the Bay Ward he wanted to make sure every Latter-day Saint in his ward knew they were welcome, including the vast majority who weren't showing up. Of the 950 members on the books, only 150 were appearing in the pews.

Because the Bay Ward serves a geographic area in San Francisco that includes the famously gay, rainbow-flag-waving Castro neighborhood, it stands to reason that a segment of those not attending church are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

Among those who have been absent are members who grew up steeped in Mormonism, faithfully served as missionaries and have families still active in the church. For Fletcher, making members of the LGBT community feel comfortable enough to walk through his congregation's doors is personal.

Fletcher has a gay family member with AIDS and says he has seen firsthand how isolating that can be in the Mormon world.

“I love my church and have a lot of faith, but culturally we haven’t done a good job in dealing with people who are gay when they face life challenges,” whether that be coming out, depression or struggles with suicide or illness, Fletcher said. “I wanted to address it in the ward I live in.”

The response in his ward, and from other Mormons he has heard from, has been nothing but positive, "uniformly, no exception," the bishop said. And, he added with a laugh, in the past month he’s broadened his own knowledge – or, rather, his lingo base - learning about “the ‘Moho community,' Mormons who are homosexual. That was a new one to me.”

The LDS Church's top leadership, and by extension many Mormons sitting in pews, heavily supported the campaign behind Proposition 8, the 2008 California initiative to ban same-sex marriage, which is currently tied up in the state’s high court.

Church doctrine says members should avoid sexual relations until marriage, which only can exist between a man and a woman. But the church’s involvement in the Prop 8 battle, and the Mormons who financially fueled the effort, created rifts in wards, spawned protests outside LDS temples and pushed some members, likely already on the churchgoing fence, out the door.

The Oakland First Ward, which Mayne attended for more than a decade, held a series of meetings to help heal those post-Prop 8 wounds. He said he sees his new church position in San Francisco’s Bay Ward as an extension of such bridge-building and a positive evolution from where he once was. The appointment will allow him to do extensive outreach in the LGBT and Mormon communities.

“It’s been hard to be a gay Mormon,” Mayne said. In the course of his life, he said he came out "no less than three times to bishops and stake presidents, and each time I was pushed back into the closet. … This is an opportunity to take my own pain and challenges and make it an opportunity to help. How can I not do that?”

He and Fletcher have already seen dividends from Mayne's calling. On a recent Sunday, Fletcher said he looked out to see seven formerly absent members take their seats in the pews because Mayne is there.

“I talked to a couple that hadn’t been to church in 20 years,” Fletcher said. “I’m not reinventing doctrine. I’m just trying to put in place what Jesus Christ would have us doing. … Even if you’re in a gay relationship and have no interest in living all the commandments, you’re still welcome in church, by all means.”

The development has stirred up discussion far beyond California. In one week, Mayne said, his personal website, which links to a blog in which he writes openly about who he is, received 30,000 views from 67 countries.

“I’m not a lone wolf on this,” he said. “I just happen to be a face of it. … There is a place for everyone at our savior’s table.”

But not everyone is as confident that Mayne’s calling will make a difference.

“I’m conflicted about this,” said Eric Ethington of Salt Lake City, the founder of the LGBT blog PRIDEinUtah.

“On the one hand, I view this as a positive step forward for the church, a church that has a history of extreme persecutions against the LGBT community,” he said. “But on the other hand,  I worry about LGBT people … because the church teaches you that you cannot reach your full potential and have full acceptance in the church unless you marry someone of the opposite sex.”

Ethington was raised in the LDS Church and says he was kicked out of the house when he came out at 17. He later closeted himself and married a woman in an LDS temple, only to divorce a couple of years later after realizing he was kidding himself.

“I can’t share (Mitch’s) optimism, but I share his hope,” he said. “Whether the church is ever going to change its policies, that’s a question for (LDS Church President) Thomas Monson. But one thing I hope the church will do, and maybe Mitch can help with this, is educate local leadership. Some kids are gay. … And that’s OK.”

Ethington pointed out, though, that Mayne, who was in a longtime monogamous relationship until a year ago, was only able to get his church calling because he’s not currently with someone.

“If he falls in love again and wants to be with that man, he won’t be allowed to serve,” he said.

Matt Mosman, a high councilor with the San Francisco Stake, said that if Mayne were to find himself in another romantic relationship, there would be an expectation that he would step down.

But the expectation that Mayne will abstain from premarital sex while in a leadership role, Mosman added, is no different from what would be expected of a single man who is not gay.

“The idea that a gay man who is not currently active in a gay relationship could serve actively in a high-ranking calling – that is a policy in the Mormon church that you could argue has been around since the church’s inception,” said Mosman, who works in corporate development.

For now, Mayne looks forward to his service and to promoting conversations and understanding. He will not, however, commit to a life of celibacy and hopes, “for all my gay brothers and sisters,” that same-sex marriage will someday be an option.

“I’m not saying I have an intent to go out and sin,” he said. “Here’s where I am; I am able and willing to serve. But I don’t have a crystal ball and don’t know what the future holds.”

- CNN Writer/Producer

Filed under: Homosexuality • Mormonism • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (1,700 Responses)
  1. Dumbndumber

    Did anyone ever think that this article is a FAKE? CNN reports that scientist discovered a secret process to convert lead into gold. Would you sell your gold? The whole article is a fake. Wake up people!! Oh that's right, you can't cure STUPID.

    September 25, 2011 at 11:18 pm |
    • *frank*

      Lead can be turned into gold actually.

      September 26, 2011 at 12:06 am |
    • Yet another Steve

      @*frank* The process is way too expensive to be worth it however.

      September 26, 2011 at 12:28 am |
    • Muneef

      Some had the power to turn sand into gold...one of those was at Moses time and he was the richest among the children of Israel...this is what is called the "Knowledge of the Book"...

      September 26, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Observer

      "Some had the power to turn sand into gold...one of those was at Moses time"

      If people could turn sand into gold, gold would be as common as sand and wouldn't be worth anything. The fact that this is not the case is called "Knowledge of Science".

      September 26, 2011 at 12:49 am |
    • Matt

      I don't believe it's "fake" per se, but it reeks of public relations propaganda by the mormons. A "leadership" positions in the mormon church can be anything from being the prophet down to a 12 year old whose job is to pass the sacrament, so it may very well be true, it just doesn't mean anything-and is so meaningless that the only reason the mormons would have it pushed by CNN is for publicity points. Sad.

      September 26, 2011 at 1:03 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      If billions of people can believe that water was transformed into wine 2,000 years ago or that wafers transform into Soylent Green every sunday, alchemy shouldn't seem too far fetched.

      September 26, 2011 at 10:06 am |
  2. carpenter

    Well, at least he doesn't want multiple wives.

    September 25, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
  3. Sid

    herbie juarez is a spineless coward.

    September 25, 2011 at 11:06 pm |
  4. jackinlondon

    Wow, a CNN article about Gay people. That's such a surprise!!!!

    September 25, 2011 at 10:12 pm |
  5. CSX

    The unbelief blog digs up everything except real Christianity. They have articles about wicked sinners and reprobates.

    Now make an article about Christianity.

    September 25, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Every now and then they do positive articles but no one post on them. They had articles about nuns doing positive work in the community and I remember one about the Martin Luther King family and the comments count barely came to 50.

      Right now the Faithful and athiest are just gladiators to CNN's Nero. Make it an article about something negative dealing with Christians and both sides

      ....say together

      ..... With one voice

      We who are about die salute you Belief Blog editors.

      l'chaim

      September 25, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Sollie

      There are no real Christians.
      There are no true Scotsman.
      Ah, the familiar complaint (and fallacy).

      Get over your fallacy and get over your religious delusions.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:51 pm |
  6. Imam Fareed

    God makes man marry woman.

    why you lustings 1 man 2 man, that is grossings of mind and body.

    marry also God says 1 man and 1 woman.

    God like no sins, God punish all sins, repent God gives mercies.

    September 25, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • *frank*

      Hard to argue with that...

      September 25, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • Colin

      "It's English Jim, but not as we know it."

      September 25, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
    • Imam Fareed

      frank come friday prayers,
      colins you gay we pray for you and you repent of all sins.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
    • Sollie

      Imam Fareed, it's OK. You can come out here with your gay tendencies. It's a free closet.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:52 pm |
  7. Maria

    God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve..... You can not lives in 2 worlds, you either follow Christ or the devil and obviously you folow the devil....

    September 25, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Adelbrain

      And maybe some day Maria will grow up.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm |
    • Colin

      Hey Maria, that's a great point. Let's base 21st Century social policy on discredited Bronze Age Palestinean mythology. Can I also live in a whale's belly for a few weeks?

      September 25, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • Muneef

      Well you might be lucky facing a whale if you swin close to the ocean...! But not sure if it will spat you out after few weeks from it's mouth but just maybe through the other end...since you have no prayer to say as did the earlier one repenting for his sins...

      September 25, 2011 at 10:45 pm |
    • Sollie

      Maria, I thought you said god created everything. What's wrong? Did "Steve" slip out accidentally, or is your god imperfect?

      September 25, 2011 at 10:56 pm |
    • Fred1

      Yes, this is why I vote for the least Christian political candidates. Christian politicians don’t work for the people, their loyalties lie elsewhere and they do not what is in the public interest as their highest priority

      September 26, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • Seriously

      "God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve."

      So you're a parrot now. What a brainwashed load of crap.

      September 27, 2011 at 11:07 am |
  8. Richard S Kaiser

    Mat 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

    In searching have you found yet, “The Kingdom of God?”

    Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

    The Lord Christ Jesus has stated himself that this world is NOT of His Kingdom and perhaps never will be,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”

    Being God’s husbandry, we are all given the chance to procreate and thru procreation God places His Hopes that one day soon someone will have an eye to see and in seeing know without a doubt that we are outrightly but Buildings of God’s grand design!

    1Cr 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    Some of God’s buildings are as Temples and in these Temples of Godliness, does reside the spirit of God’s wealthiness. I though am but a building for I did spend most of my days, not doing the things that God has set upon me to do. I nowadays write what the Holy Spirit inside my being dictates to me to write.

    Luk 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside/within you."

    Alas, The Kingdom of God is truly inside us! Thank you Lord Christ Jesus for saying it in your Word!

    1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    Only with added light and high magnification can the “hidden things of darkness” upon inner space be revealed. Only by capturing light by time and telescopic magnification can one see the far away outer space “hidden things of darkness”. Still; one cannot see but a short distance upon the closer outer space phenomenon while much of outer space “hidden things of darkness” will never be seen by our prying eyes. Both places of “hidden things” are of one accordance and revealing sameness, ergo which one is imitating the other or are both things of the hidden darkness mimicking each other simultaneously?

    The GOD who is this Earth’s Heavenly Embodiments assures me that within all the Celestial Heavens does lay many other universes too numerable to count, let alone be seen ever by man. As GOD stretches out HIS Body, He creates other universes to fill the Holy Sea of HIS Spirit which is the Sea of Nothingness and its’ rivers of Nothingness lay way to ponds and streams and creeks inwardly upon the realms of the atomized universes where within live the Gods and Christ Jesus is their King.

    When we die one goes before the throne of judgment to be deemed worthy of receivership of a heaven or to be sent off to lead a life/death and life/death living throughout all eternity until the new earth is completed from the celestial universes which are forever being built and supplanted as GOD sees fit within the new earth’s growing firmaments. May the Sons of GOD who dwell deeply inside have mercies upon us all!

    September 25, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
    • Fractal Fairy Tales

      Richard! Tell us the value of the Feigenbaum number and explain it's relationship to period doubling. What simple formula produces the Mandelbrot set when applied to the coordinates of the complex plane? What is meant by the edge of chaos?

      September 25, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
    • Fractal Reptilian Yeti

      Kneel before me or I will bite your face off and haul you down into my nightmare labyrinth of reiterating leaf veins!!!!!

      September 25, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Fractal Fairy Tales wrote on Sunday, September 25, 2011 at 9:00 pm the following, "Richard! Tell us the value of the Feigenbaum number and explain it's relationship to period doubling. What simple formula produces the Mandelbrot set when applied to the coordinates of the complex plane? What is meant by the edge of chaos?

      The first Feigenbaum constant is δ = 4.66920160910299067185320382...and is the limiting ratio of each bifurcation interval to the next, or between the diameters of successive circles on the real axis of the Mandelbrot set. Feigenbaum originally related this number to the period-doubling bifurcations in the logistic map, but also showed it to hold for all one-dimensional maps with a single quadratic maximum. As a consequence of this generality, every chaotic system that corresponds to this description will bifurcate at the same rate. It was discovered in 1975

      The second Feigenbaum constant is α = 2.502907875095892822283902873218...,and is the ratio between the width of a tine and the width of one of its two subtines (except the tine closest to the fold).
      Both numbers are believed to be transcendental, although they have not been proven to be so.

      The Mandelbrot set is a particular mathematical set of points, whose boundary generates a distinctive and easily recognisable two-dimensional fractal shape.

      zn+1 = zn2 + c That is, a complex number, c, is part of the Mandelbrot set if, when starting with z0 = 0 and applying the iteration repeatedly, the absolute value of zn never exceeds a certain number (that number depends on c) however large n gets. Images of the Mandelbrot set display an elaborate boundary that reveals progressively ever-finer recursive detail at increasing magnifications. The "style" of this repeating detail depends on the region of the set being examined. The set's boundary also incorporates smaller versions of the main shape, so the fractal property of self-similarity applies to the whole set, and not just to its parts.

      Mandelbrot's idiology sees but in one or two dimensionalized shifts and are parodies unlike three dimensional endowments such as atomized nebulas and their "big brother" a stellar nebula.

      Both Feigenbaum constant numbers are rather declaring the a one or even a two dimensioned field of relativity and does in no way shape or form follow along three dimensional relavencies of which like I stated above regarding atomized nebulas and stellar nebulations cannot be attributed to such numbers' constants.

      I find Mandelbrot and Feigerbaum to be old schooled theorists and are unworthy to follow except if one thinks in perspectives of one or two dimensional paradigms,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 🙂

      September 25, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Fractal Fairy Tales did also ask me, "What is meant by the edge of chaos?"

      The phrase edge of chaos was coined by mathematician Doyne Farmer to describe the transition phenomenon discovered by computer scientist Christopher Langton. The phrase originally refers to an area in the range of a variable, λ (lambda), which was varied while examining the behavior of a cellular automaton

      Computer science is not, I repeat, is not three nor four nor even five dimensional sciences. All your touting about others' doodlings are purely regarded by me as being allegories regarding either one or two dimensionalized figurations and cannot be part and parcel of atomized nebulations and stellar nebulations similarities.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:13 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Fractal Fairy Tales

      Just exactly FFT, how many dimensions can you clamoringly obfuscate? 2? 3? 4? or more?

      I know of 7. Can you FFT tell me of these seven shifts of paradoxical dimensioning?

      September 25, 2011 at 10:31 pm |
    • Perspex Pomegranate

      Conflagrate those fast obfuscations, Richy So Kaiserly. That's chaste Cooley-Tukey to a "y". Prime stuff, multidimensionally speaking. Split-radix. Multivariate too.

      Sperical, man. Spherical.

      September 25, 2011 at 11:03 pm |
    • Observer

      Richard,

      When you are finished with the cut and paste, please tell us about talking serpents and unicorns.

      September 25, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
  9. Jazzy

    Mormons are extremely judgmental. If yu don't believe me try dating a Mormon, when you are not, and see how their family reacts!

    September 25, 2011 at 8:24 pm |
    • Sollie

      Try dating a zombie Mormon and see how their dead family reacts.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm |
  10. ytuque

    He looks like the son from Married with Children all grown up.

    September 25, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
  11. Bo

    @tallulah 7:11 post You are half right, Etenity will be spent worshiping God who has rewarded us for our fathfulness, but that is not all we will be doing. The Bible tells us we will build, and plant and harvest, and no doubt we will travel the whole universe. And there will be no longer any sorrow. But, unfortunately, you are right, those who have not learned to love God, he will mercifully destroy (not suffer eternally as some teach.) because they would find no pleasure in Heaven and the Earth made new. However, there is always an open invatation from God. While at the library today I discovered there are many who were well known evolution scienctists that found Jesus as their savior, and now they preach and teach creation. God loves you! I believe this will be the last posting I can make on this page. The memory in my cell won't let me open it much longer. I'll see you on another blog.

    September 25, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
    • *frank*

      "mercifully destroy" lols...

      September 25, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
    • John Richardson

      So who are these famous evolutionary scientists who "found Jesus"? Did they find him in Olduvai Gorge?

      September 25, 2011 at 8:05 pm |
    • Stan

      Ya, Bo, actually back up your posts with some specifics for a change, not just vacant claims.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:15 pm |
    • tallulah13

      It's a shame Bo didn't actually back his claim with evidence before the "memory" in his cell went south.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • *frank*

      I saw Jesus chilling with Heidelberg Man and the Taung Baby at Starbucks.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • Fred1

      No kidding I would find no pleasure in the Christians heaven, an eternity of sitting in church doing nothing but stroking god’s ego. No thank you

      September 26, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
  12. Richard S Kaiser

    Answer

    Wrote on Sunday, September 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm, @Richard stated "To God it is an abomination! Maybe, just maybe the bigger God who is GOD will give you a star to live within when death beckons you to be on the judgment seat! As for me, I repent daily and do try my best to spread the Word as the holy spirit has so guided me in!"

    Answer then stated, “To God it is an abomination – so you know this as fact? Doubtful. Please restate this line as follows : "I think this is an abomination because that is what I think.”

    I rebuke Answer by stating, “Are you the type that keeps putting words in others mouths or are you idly gestating?

    The KJVB states, Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination

    Answer dribbles my word,,,,,,,, "to spread the Word as the holy spirit has so guided me in!"

    Answer decides to say, “Doubtful once again. God talked to you directly – yes in your head, it's a nice concept. Hearing voices – sounds like it to me. Restate it to this please.. I think that God has guided me but I am definitely not sure. I want to believe."

    I Rick do reiterate by stating, “Are you by my side when I type? Do you see whatb goes on within my mind when I am typing? Are you able to see my inward ongoings of my psyche and what truly happens when I type? The Holy Spirit has been spread upon the wholeness of this world’s people, but some people run away while others deny and those who know the Holy Spirit outside of the manmade churches which are not of GOD or even God, may spread the words of truthfulness to those who have an ear and an eye.

    Answer continues on in denigrations stating, “Look at your words Richard .. full of faith – nothing else. Empty words coming from you. Care to deny it? Of course you will. I haven't stopped you from being too much of being an idiot have I?”

    In repose I Richard shall surmise by stating, “I was called a bigot by some. I am now pointed out as being an idiot. Shall I say it’s in my DNA to be called a bigot or idiot? Or shall I stand apart from those who dwell in acts of proclaiming someone to be a bigoted fool or an idiot? I am a sinner who has reached the point of wanting Christ Jesus’ redemption and guarantee for a new life of living/dying and living/dying thru all Time for honoring Christ’s Word and to spread that which has come to me in light of my mind’s sakedness.”

    September 25, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
    • Fractal Fairy Tales

      Stupidity probably IS in you DNA, and stupidity can lead to bigotry ...

      September 25, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • Answer

      @Richard

      Poor you..

      "I am a sinner who has reached the point of wanting Christ Jesus’ redemption and guarantee for a new life of living/dying and living/dying thru all Time for honoring Christ’s Word and to spread that which has come to me in light of my mind’s sakedness.”

      So basically your words are just a fancy wish. This is what I am presuming and claiming about YOU.
      Your claim is that you inherited sin. This 'guarantee' also – IS about your FEAR of death. I'm simply calling you on your claims. You do not have one iota of sin – this is ONLY A CONCEPT OF WORDS – to my thinking. It is not real in my OPINION.

      If it were real it exists ONLY in FAITH! To science you will need to test it to see if it exists. Offer the evidence – to assist your views. To anyone who can see this (your point) is the reflection of the deep FAITH in your being. We do not care how much of your faith is in your words! Do you get the picture?

      Whatever you WANT to proclaim, I could care less! Remember your words are just that – WORDS. It is not even truth. Until you have proof – then anybody who sees this point – can absolutely determine it as solely as being FAITH. See the logic. Your faith is useless in this argument.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      "Remember your words are just that – WORDS. "

      Isn't that the same for you, me and everyone else posting on this blog?

      September 25, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • Answer

      @Mark

      No s-h-i-t! Words are just that. Then why does a religious person want to convert others? That answer is – forcing others to their own viewpoint or set of beliefs.

      When can someone then say and retort "I refused your view!" ? Yes with words. Words are then have to be put to the test with proof! That is how to find out the truth – with proof.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>>"Words are just that. Then why does a religious person want to convert others? That answer is – forcing others to their own viewpoint or set of beliefs."

      The same reason mostly everyone on this planet. Every believes that their way of belief, non belief or any range of topics, we all believe that ultimately our way of looking at things is how every other creature on this planet should look at things. The view that if anyone believes differently that must be weak of mind and brainwashed. Not that the person just is equal to us and came to another view, no they are less than us.

      Many Athiest come here just as the Faithful and believe that they can convert the others. When they fail, because folks who post here are not weak-minded , then the claims of brainwashing get thrown out.

      That's all

      September 25, 2011 at 11:46 pm |
  13. daplumper

    I belong to an outreach program that reaches out to the gay community. We try to open dialogue between the gay and straight community, because we are trying to build trust in the gay community. Once we achieve that trust, we generally take the gay person aside, and beat the gay out of him with a t-ball baseball bat. As an added bonus, we get to keep any cash or small jewelry he is carrying. We don't generally target the lesbians, because lesbianism is hot.

    September 25, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
    • Observer

      How's your wife's presidential campaign coming along? 🙂

      September 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • Mormon Beliefs and views on the subject- As told by an active member

      I'm sorry, but that is truly pathetic and sad that none of you in that group can't even look past that one trait of the person and look at the whole picture. I don't agree with the act myself, but I do try to understand and love every person, even if I don't agree with what they do. I can however understand your irritation if it is being flaunted in your face, if that is the case. That's only human for a person to get mad if someone is trying to intentionally irritate or anger you. However, that is not an excuse to be violent and prejudice against someone, even more so if they did absolutely nothing to you personally. Hatred will only start another fire, and then a war is born. Why make an enemy, when you can make a friend? People are more than one trait, or one thing. If you were to stop and take a look at the world for a change, we don't need more hate and war; we need peace.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:53 pm |
  14. evan

    I find this bizarre. He's gay (okay), claims to be a believer in the LDS faith (also okay), and yet won't commit to celibacy. It sounds like he doesn't actually believe in the LDS faith at all. Either that or he's hoping that once gays can marry, that'll change what God has said about gays.

    September 25, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • Dave

      Evan, the Mormons have great practices for community and family life. Their beliefs miss accuracy on other things but if that's where this guy feels his place is there it's a good ground breaking for gays. I kind of see it as a non-anglo wanting to join the KKK. Hopefully he can set a good example.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • daplumper

      he's a liar. You don't get called to a job in a different ward. You get called to jobs in your own ward. You get assigned to a ward. It isn't like he got called to be a branch president, or a missionary president. This a ward job that is called to one of the parishoners within that ward. You don't get a calling to be a bishop of another ward, for example. Instead, one of the lay members in that ward is called to be the bishop (usally for 5-6 years). Then you step down and another is called from the same congregation. So, he is a liar. Even if he isn't a liar, I hope he gets aids.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • Adelbrain

      Exactly. It just proves that people CHOOSE religion for a strange set of reasons, that have nothing to do with logic or reason. He obviously NEEDS this community. So let hem be. Maybe he will grow out of it. No one can seriously believe the junk Joseph Smith said. It's obviously about something else...comfort, community, belonging etc. Whatever it is, it's VERY strange, especially THIS cult.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:08 pm |
  15. Richard S Kaiser

    Observer wrote, "Over and over and over you can see statements from gays saying they were born that way and would never choose a lifestyle that would require putting up with mindless comments from ignorant bigots."

    And I was born to be a bigot, an ignorant one at that! It's in my DNA to be an ignorant bigot! So Be It! One cannot read one's mindless coments regarding choice lifestyles can one? I wouldn't want the gaybashers to draw the wrong conclusions now would we?

    September 25, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Observer

      Please list your credentials as a mind reader.

      People who claim they can read millions of minds of strangers and claim those people are lying have a problem themselves called delusion.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • *frank*

      No, being ignorant is a lifestyle choice.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • *frank*

      Are there gay fractals? Some of the functions seem pretty stylish.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Where in Sam's h3ll did I ever say I was a mind reader, Seems you are doing such, quite well by putting words in the mouths of babes! Next thingamabob might be the coke bottle in places that cannot be mentioned. The credentials I have are not found anywhere but in the KJVB and in my defining way, I have given my say as to what God, not GOD thinks of those who lay with their sameness or even with many different partners at once! To God it is an abomination! Maybe, just maybe the bigger God who is GOD will give you a star to live within when death beckons you to be on the judgement seat! As for me, I repent daily and do try my best to spread the Word as the holy spirit has so guided me in!

      GOD’s Love

      I Love GOD because “I am“.
      I am living because of GOD
      I am learning because of GOD
      I am seeing my faults because of GOD
      I am repentant because of GOD.
      GOD’s Love allows me to be what "I am".

      You ought Love GOD because “You are”.
      You are living because of GOD.
      You are learning because of GOD.
      You are seeing many faults because of GOD.
      You are repentant because of GOD.
      GOD’s Love allows you to be what “You are”.

      We need to Love GOD because “We are”.
      We are living because of GOD.
      We are learning because of GOD.
      We are seeing our faults because of GOD.
      We are repentant because of GOD.
      GOD’s Love allows us to be as “We are”.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Answer

      @Richard

      "To God it is an abomination! Maybe, just maybe the bigger God who is GOD will give you a star to live within when death beckons you to be on the judgement seat! As for me, I repent daily and do try my best to spread the Word as the holy spirit has so guided me in!"

      To God it is an abomination – so you know this as fact? Doubtful. Please restate this line as follows : "I think this is an abomination because that is what I think.

      "to spread the Word as the holy spirit has so guided me in!" Doubtful once again. God talked to you directly – yes in your head, it's a nice concept. Hearing voices – sounds like it to me. Restate it to this please.. "I think that God has guided me but I am definitely not sure. I want to believe."

      Look at your words Richard .. full of faith – nothing else. Empty words coming from you. Care to deny it? Of course you will.
      I haven't stopped you from being too much of being an idiot have I?

      September 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • Dave

      So basically, you are taking the opinions of long dead sheep herders as the word of some hypothetical deity. Trying to make a logical argument starting from that basis is inherently flawed.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • *frank*

      Richard, your post is simultaneously hate-filled, insipidly saccharine, baseless, illiterate, and self-contradictory.
      Other than that, it's good.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • WMP

      I suppose that some of you would say that not being in favor of Gays is being ignorant. So called Christian gays are on a crusade to change all religious doctrine and beliefs to conform to their choice and lifestyle. Sick.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Answer

      Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • Observer

      Richard,
      "Where in Sam's h3ll did I ever say I was a mind reader"

      Gays constantly say they were born that way and have felt the same from their earliest memories. You say they are lying. Obviously, you must be able to read their minds to know their experiences and can tell they lied.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • Observer

      Richard,

      Leviticus (20:9) also says “If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death”

      So what is your point?

      September 25, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Answer

      @Richard

      As if your quotes mean anything to me. Poor fool and his quotes..
      The fact is you do not want to address your own stupidity. It is after all an insulting methodology that I have used to undermine your whole faith. You can not respond to it in kind simply because you have no position for that defense.
      I know the practice of futility on one's such as yourself, I just wanted to see how much retreating you will do.
      It is fun to play with you, get you to bottle yourself back into your shell. One day that shell will collapse .. then you'll probably commit suicide. Too bad though.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:21 pm |
    • Mormon Beliefs and views on the subject- As told by an active member

      God put us on Earth to learn. Mortal life is all just one big test. We have daily trials and problems that he has given us to overcome- it is our choice wither or not we overcome those trials. Yes, he still does love us no matter what, but you will learn much more and he will be much more proud of you if one overcomes their own trials.
      and I think you should know, that a *true* Mormon's view on this is, that We love the people, but don't agree with what they do. And that goes for MANY things and many people. Here's an example (MY example), one of my brothers smokes, I hate that he does, but I still love him VERY dearly. That does not mean that I hate all smokers, now does it? It just means I don't like smoking, but I love my brother. And the LDS church teaches to love EVERYONE, so please don't be prejudice against the church because of one or a few peoples opinions. Their opinions are not the LDS churches opinions, and they do not reflect upon what our church truly stands for.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:10 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Answer – Are you HeavenSent's twin? Between the both of you I doubt if either could undermine anyones Faith or non-Faith because all each of you have is just insults and preaching from a Holy book that the other side believes to be fiction. Sadly both of you actually fool yourselves to believing you are winning the argument.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • Answer

      @Mark

      I'm not here to win an argument. I'm here to provide the answers – those that I have and know. It is my knowledge that I have acquired! The years that I have pointed out the false logic of the religious people that want everyone to follow their own personal views. No one should just follow blindly. That is my opinion. If a person wants to know how or why or to question something they do not understand they should question it. Everyone SHOULD question religion – I do and I am not the only one. You should never be afraid of someone condemning you to hell just because they have some fancy wish to make you one of them.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:14 pm |
    • Imam Fareed

      You fools to say no God, why God give no brains to you stupid minds.

      repent sins, God will mercy you.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
    • Answer

      @Iman

      Go and tell all those other religions that are against you that you are right. That your god is the truth god and that they should convert to your side. Obviously they want you to come to their side.

      Tell them that they need to repent. While you're doing that, could you also kill yourself and ask all the religious people in your life to kill themselves also? Thanks. Muchly appreciated.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:33 pm |
    • Imam Fareed

      You dull, stupid and idiot, you no believe in God , you one rotten tomato very very rotten and full of dull head.no sense talk to fools like you full of dullness and stupidness .

      repent sins now. God grant forgives for foolish thinking saying no God.

      Come friday prayers, we pray for you and for your gay.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:43 pm |
    • Answer

      @Imam

      Whatever makes you happy .. keep on with your hate and spread your fear. You all die and then we wait out to see how the next generation will turn out. It is hope that they won't be as stupid as you Imam.

      I'll be glad when you die and those of your fellow kind. Keep on the rant or repent and sin. They are all you have anyways.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:49 pm |
    • Answer

      @Imam

      Do you know how stupid you are? Honestly do you?

      September 25, 2011 at 10:53 pm |
    • Imam Fareed

      You fool no think you bigger than my God, you stupid and foolish posts are full of lie and falseness talking lies all day long, how you go to sleep talking so bad about God all day long and making fun of God. You no can think man is bigger than God who makes him, God is bigger , you fall on your face and ask God repenting now, today.

      God punish sins and God punish fools say no to God.

      Come friday prayers with us we pray.

      September 25, 2011 at 10:58 pm |
    • Answer

      @imam

      You have said that already stupid. So what else does your pervert god say to you?

      September 25, 2011 at 10:59 pm |
    • Muneef

      Mark from Middle River...
      About "Imam Fareed".
      Just unbelievable what I read..! Where did this guy appear from and why now only and why only on this gay issue did he appear...?
      From reading I had the feeling that he must be some one having good time fooling others that he is a Muslim...!!

      September 25, 2011 at 11:02 pm |
    • Answer

      @Imam

      Let's play the insult game shall we? Your dribble on sin and prayer and that whackiness is so boring.
      I wonder how many years it has been that you have been sucking that god c-o-c-k? Do you want to tell the world? I promise to not tell 🙂

      September 25, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
    • Muneef

      Mark from Middle River...
      Another thing I find "Anwar" no better than him since suddenly he went insane calling GOD names for a fault of a man...so allow me to say that both are fake dead fake...and not at all Muslims...

      September 25, 2011 at 11:07 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>”I'm here to provide the answers – those that I have and know. “

      ...and who is asking the questions? I have been here for about a year, on the Belief Blog, and the one thing that I have come to accept is that on the basis of Faith, no one ….or it is extremely rare, that a poster has come in with a question or I would even go as far as to say..with a doubt of their view of Faith and Religion. The majority of those, both Atheist and the Faithful, are not only concreted in their views, they are laser etched in their views.

      It sounds more like you are the type that feels that your way is the only way and that anyone that thinks differently are lost and waiting for you to save them. Do not worry Answer, folks on our side think that you are lost and clueless and are waiting for us of Faith to sweep down and save you. 🙂

      Question, you mentioned “blind faith” …. why is that when a person agrees with our personal view they have convictions, are steadfast and often seen in our eyes are noble. Then when another who continues to hold hold their views that are counter to our own, we look at those as having “blind faith”? It is the “brain-washed” arguement all re-packaged.

      >>>”Everyone SHOULD question religion”

      Is religion and Faith the same to you? In some ways people with in the Faith have been questioning this aspect or this scripture since before Martin Luther. The questioning of Faith I feel is different and that is an aspect that we could go on for days and several hard drives on CNNs servers discussing.

      >>>”You should never be afraid of someone condemning you to hell just because they have some fancy wish to make you one of them.”

      Ok, question is that how every person of Faith views their interactions with those not of Faith? Do you see a difference in those of Faith? Are we all Westburo Baptist? Are we all the Taliban?

      >>>”If a person wants to know how or why or to question something they do not understand they should question it.”

      Do you understand all the different types of Persons of Faith? You just as equally want to make folks to to be like yourself. So how is it that much different than those militant Faithful, that you describe?

      Now, you can continue to rant and rave with the likes of Herbert and HeavenSent or you seek those of Faith that I feel might challenge your views of the totality of the Faithful and of Religion.

      L'Chaim.

      September 26, 2011 at 1:18 am |
  16. Answer

    From HeavenSent's earlier ranting:

    "I thought the ranks of the non-believers would never get that Jesus' truth (the Bible) explains all life has to offer. His teachings explain what happens when focusing on the unrighteous route vs the righteous route."

    - The all too common spout from you bible thumpers.. you word are your own remember that!
    What do you think you have really learned from your bible except that your life is just your own emotions and your own views? Ask yourself REALLY – how much of life CAN your bible explain? Does your bible even tell you what LIGHT is? Or what DARKNESS is? What about the whole range of the infrared or ultraviolet spectrum? Never mind just what your eyes can discern.

    Fact is your bible is a bunch of useless stories. You stand on it and use it to mock real intelligence and progress – always afraid that your time of control (or that your small bubble of security) will be REPLACED by science! The sooner the better!

    HeavenSent, Herbert, Richard Kaiser - all you clowns - if you do not like the changes that are going to happen you better change this moment and accept it. Science will undermine your little crackpot minds and leave you in the hollow of your own shells. You little people have no concept of what life really is. You haven't even thought of how vast the oceans are.. how vast the universe is.. you've never explored it! All you are is just talk about how you are afraid to die!

    What do you know of what is righteous? It's your own personal view stemming from your own acceptance of your specific religion. That is all it is – so your preaching is just your fantasy of what you want to protect. This is your methodology to shelter your own upbringing. There are other views more important than your own. That view is science!

    If you don't like the changes – too f-u-c-k-i-n-g bad! You're going to have to accept it. Your future generations will be taught this – because it is and will lead to the betterment of the whole earth that we all live in. Insert that into your minds now. For science doesn't condemn you – it will only teach you knowledge.

    September 25, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • Chad.

      Hear! Hear!

      Great post, Answer. Bravo!

      September 25, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      You are on the path to destruction not only for yourself but for everyone who follows your godless ways.The real danger is that you and your kind undermine the very fabric of the nation and cause unnecessary harm wherever you go.You will be held responsible for the innocents you destroy with your godless lifestyles.God created science for the betterment of mankind,you are perverting science for your own selfish goals.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Keep sputtering away, Herbert. Troglodytes like you always fear the future.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      The future is confirmed by the past, only a moron fails to learn from history.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • tallulah13

      History shows that mankind has created thousands of gods and that those gods have been abandoned in their turn. Your god is no different, herbie.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      So one name calling hostile rant is answered by an equally hostile rant.

      I wish all of you could find another way. Screaming is not the solution.

      l'Chaim

      September 25, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      God is God the great I AM.When you attempt to undermine God you are undermining yourself and helping to destroy your nation.Check out history, the pattern has been repeated from the dawn of time.Godlessness destroys nations faster than anything else.You will not escape responsibility for your foolishness.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      Hey mark, bite me THIS IS SCREAMING.The truth has to be told ,the godless will be held accountable for their godless ways.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @mark
      Read the prophets you panty waist.Shalom God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
    • Colin

      Well said Answer. Your frustration with the simpletons is understood.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Herbert – Try to think of it like this. The truth needs to be heard and unless you have a weak minded individual or a gun to anothers back, many do not respond to being told. You give them what you believe, stand on it, but folks responding to one rant with another rant is not productive. Especially on a place like this blog.

      September 25, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • Sid

      herbert juarez is a spineless coward.

      September 25, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
    • Muneef

      -A person who does not speak out against the wrong is a mute devil.

      September 25, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      >>>”-A person who does not speak out against the wrong is a mute devil.”

      Since, we have very little consensus in society on what would be defined as “wrong” and what is “right” then does that not just have us fractured and screaming at each other. Are we all to just segregate into separate ghettos and surround ourselves with those that think and believe exactly as we do? Even within groups that appear to be unified we see deferring opinions. Often times the tighter the unity the more violent the clashes are because of how close those involved are but deferring on one small issue.

      September 26, 2011 at 1:28 am |
  17. dfarling

    An 'executive secretary' in a ward is not a leadership position. He does not counsel or advise others, as the bishop and his counselors do. He merely keeps the bishop's appointment schedule, and takes roll each Sunday. This is not news, CNN, you have been played for some free advertising.

    September 25, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing you are so ignorant of the mormon hierarchy.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
  18. dfarling

    This is not news.

    September 25, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing you are sop ignorant of the news worthy realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • darling

      It is amazing that herbert is such an ignorant sop.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Herbacious, it's amazing you can breathe when your cranium is stuck so far up your azz.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing that tom tom is so ignorant of ,well...the everything realm .God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 8:30 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing that darling is "SO" ignorant of the sop realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
    • darling

      Relax herbie. We know about your smallness problem. It's OK for you to post here. We won't tell anyone.

      September 25, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing that d"f"arling is so ignorant of the smallness realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's amazing that herbtastic can manage to tie his own shoes. Oh, wait. His mommy does it for him. She has to assist him with toilieting, too

      September 25, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
  19. Richard S Kaiser

    I feel sorry for you who are gay, I really do! Anything else I should say to make your gaynesses reach its' highnessed level of outrages equalateralism along side the husbands and wives of the right-minded kinds? Will you who are gay continue to blame it on your DNA and take no responsibilities for wanting to be gay? Shame on you who cannot outrightly say you want a gay style of living arrangement because your desires are to abandon the right style in favor of the abominable by God style!

    😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦 😦

    September 25, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing you are so ignorant of the literary realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • Observer

      I feel sorry for those heteros who are so ignorant that they think they know more of what goes on in a gay person's mind than the person themselves. The term for this is delusion.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      I for but a person of one cannot make manifest otherly opinions nor put word in the mouths of those who remain silent. As for those who tend to speak for others, "Did you who speaks for others get permission slips to do so?"

      September 25, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
    • Observer

      Over and over and over you can see statements from gays saying they were born that way and would never choose a lifestyle that would require putting up with mindless comments from ignorant bigots.

      Try doing some research for a change. Mindreading isn't too reliable.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      And yes, I did put on the spot, my s,e # ual stance regarding gaynesses being an abomination by God and yes you gaywards will soon have your way due your outlandish persistences to become known outrightly in the public school systems where your literal taggings of books in the schools libraries will lay waste to many an innocent mind!

      September 25, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • Observer

      If you REALLY cared about sinners, you'd pick on the FAR FAR GREATER number of Christians who commit adultery by remarrying instead of "abominations" like eating seafood. It's all pick-and-choose hypocrisy.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Richard, you are a shining beacon of ignorance and arrogance. All your opinions seem to be formed by your own fears. You fear death, you fear damnation, you fear people who aren't like you, you fear science. I would hate to be such a coward as you.

      September 25, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • John Richardson

      He obviously fears dictionaries and grammar books as well!

      September 25, 2011 at 7:41 pm |
    • Yet another Steve

      I'm not sure, but I think the "Abominable by God style" is a gay hair salon. I could swear I passed the sign in San Francisco.......

      September 25, 2011 at 11:58 pm |
  20. Amy

    Why are religions against gay people but they like angels? Angels seem pretty darn gay to me! Do the religious people just pretend angels aren't gay even though they know they are?

    September 25, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing that you are so ignorant of the spiritual realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
    • Answer

      Herbert

      Pathetic as usual. Do you support your religious agenda that much? Just buying your steady goodwill ticket to heaven? I had thought you already had your ticket in hand.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      It is amazing that answer is so ignorant of the response realm.God bless

      September 25, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • Observer

      herbert juarez,

      So why didn't you just say you have no answer for Answer's question?

      September 25, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
    • Sid

      herbie juarez is a spineless coward. That explains what is behind his religious beliefs.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • Answer

      @Herbert

      The reason why your posts are so inane is simply that I have abused you so much that it hurts you to see them.
      I know you are shallow, full of hate .. and so full of stupidity. I can teach you so much but you know what I prefer to abuse you for simple pleasure. You'll never learn from myself or any other – you'll one day reflect in your own mind and ask yourself – what has my life amounted to and you'll come up with? "I do not know."

      The one simple line "I do not know" is the cornerstone of science! Accept it now. This is the only piece of knowledge that will break your little religious zealotry! Trust me! This is the ultimate truth to all life! Test it if you have the strength to overcome your religious background.

      September 25, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      In heaven they neither marry nor recreate.Angels are.God bless(question answered)

      September 25, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
    • Answer

      @Herbert

      "in heaven they neither marry nor recreate.Angels are.God bless(question answered)"

      More fallacy professing as logic. You believe in a heaven, you wish for the heaven to be true. You wish it to be real when you die. You wish that the angels are true. You want to believe. You want to be blessed from your god. You see your words as your own truth.

      Just state that plainly Herbert. You'll see it eventually. Along with your other like minded people.. it is just your wish for it to be all real. I'm not sure how many times you people deceive yourself with your own words on any given day. Have you ever counted out how many times you people have typed this same rhetoric out every time?

      September 25, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
    • Yet another Steve

      You know, you have a point. I mean, the have sparkly wings and wear dresses......

      September 26, 2011 at 12:03 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.