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Obama delivers very Christian message at Christmas tree lighting
President Obama and his family at the Thursday night tree lighting.
December 1st, 2011
10:12 PM ET

Obama delivers very Christian message at Christmas tree lighting

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - President Barack Obama delivered an unusually stark Christian message at the White House Christmas tree lighting Thursday night, saying Christ's message "lies at the heart of my Christian faith and that of millions of Americans."

"More than 2,000 years ago, a child was born to two faithful travelers who could find rest only in a stable, among the cattle and the sheep," Obama said at the tree lighting ceremony, a longstanding White House tradition.


"But this was not just any child," Obama continued. "Christ’s birth made the angels rejoice and attracted shepherds and kings from afar. He was a manifestation of God’s love for us."

Obama has been more public and specific about his religious beliefs since polls last year showed that only a minority of Americans know he is Christian. Last Easter, Obama got unusually specific about his beliefs on Christ's resurrection at a White House prayer breakfast.

Some conservative Christian leaders have questioned Obama's Christian faith, even though Obama got his start in politics through church-based political organizing and has written about accepting Jesus in his 20s.

Last month, South Carolina Christian conservative leader Bob Jones III told a reporter “I’ve no reason to think (Obama is) Christian."

“Some people will say whatever they think the politically helpful thing would be,” Jones said. “I say, ‘Where is the evidence that he is a Christian?’ ”

In his remarks at Thursday's tree lighting, Obama said that Jesus "grew up to become a leader with a servant’s heart who taught us a message as simple as it is powerful: that we should love God, and love our neighbor as ourselves."

"So long as the gifts and the parties are happening, it’s important for us to keep in mind the central message of this season," he said, "and keep Christ’s words not only in our thoughts, but also in our deeds."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Barack Obama • Christianity • Christmas

soundoff (2,184 Responses)
  1. Captn

    Obama is giving a very general message – too general. Everyone wants to be loved by god and have happy fluttery butterfly feelings in their stomachs about how much god loves us. He left out the most important point of why Jesus came – to save us from our sins and to save every man from eternity in Hell. thats why Jesus was born. anyway i think it's a tactic to sound good in front of the cameras because he wants to win the next election. He isn't christian.. he has shown no proof in his conduct the last 3 years.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Snc735

      I don't want your god's love.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:29 am |
    • yeahalright

      I'm sorry you're so easily manipulated by fear.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • jen b

      So now there is some measure by which one must prove he's a Christian? What does that entail? Raping children?

      December 2, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • jim

      you're YET ANOTHER lying conservative who can't accept facts.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Reasongal

      His faith isn't something he has to a) prove to you, or b) even have.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:50 am |
  2. eBAY

    Who cares if he is a Christian. He is the President of the United States, not the Pope.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • warmesTghosT

      Ramen.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:27 am |
  3. Brett

    It's actually a Pagan Tree. Christians never want to admit that they stole the tradition from pagan celebrations. Show me a passage in the Bible where it says they should decorate a tree to honor the Birth of Christ. The only passage that refers to deorating a tree is Jeremiah 10:2-8, and it ironically FORBIDS the decorating of a tree as a form of heathen idolatry.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:25 am |
  4. CitizenJP

    Before Mr. Bob Jones asks the President to provide a proof that he is a Christian, can Mr. Jones himself provide the proof that he is one?

    Mr. Jone's Christianity is limited to his enrollment in a brick and mortar Church while his heart rests upon greed of power and wealth. He protects the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class and poor – Jesus protected the poor and condemned the wealthy who were blinded by their greed. You are in favor of guns and death penalty – Jesus was clearly not. Mr. Jones is in favor of the death penalty, Jesus was not. Therefore, Mr. Jones needs to first prove his Christianity before he brazenly questions the President's faith.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:25 am |
  5. LindaMae

    Merry CHRISTmas everyone!!

    December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • warmesTghosT

      Happy holydaze!

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Merry Christmas

      Merry Christmas

      December 2, 2011 at 11:55 am |
  6. Atheist Hunter

    The explanation is that the atheist is like a color-blind person looking at a rainbow - he just does not see it all - even though he looks at it and thinks he sees it. This is exactly what the Bible says happens. 2 CORINTHIANS 4:3-4 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      More like we saw the pretty colors as a child now we know its just the diffraction of light. The separation of wave lengths by water droplets is something of greater wonder.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • warmesTghosT

      The Bible is patently wrong on many, many things. Like, Genesis. And the Exodus. And the Flood. And the existence of Jesus.

      None of those things are substantiated historically or archaeologically. Some have been outright proven false by modern science.

      What a terribly shallow and blinkered way to live your life.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Cedar Rapids

      Whereas the christian looks at a rainbow and thinks it was created by magic by a supernatural spell casting being.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

      It's like the picture of a napkin and written on it says "This napkin is the one true religion. Why? Because it says so right on this napkin."

      Obviously the guy who wrote that was smart enough to know that people wouldn't believe his writings so what better way to get people to believe with a little reverse psychology.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • Brett

      No, actually, it's the other way around. Atheists see the picture in full color, because they haven't confined themselves to the views of one religion. Believers are the ones who see the picture distorted by their own dogma.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:28 am |
    • Really?

      "The explanation is that the atheist is like a color-blind person looking at a rainbow – he just does not see it all – even though he looks at it and thinks he sees it. "

      Guess what we see the rainbow because of light reflected on water, but our eyes define the color, it doesn't mean in reality the rainbow is really just shades of gray but our eyes turn it into colors as it is processed in our brain. 😉

      December 2, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • yeahalright

      Had to throw something in the book the gullible could point to when rational people look at you and start laughing when you say you actually believe it.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • catholic engineer

      I was at an osteology museum the other day looking at a skeleton of a human ancestor from 200,000 years ago. The explanatory plaque said that evolution is measureable and scientific. I accepted this. But I wondered, "evolution of what?" Well, a simple explanation for humans would be "the natural organization of bone, organs, and flesh in such a way as to insure survival." The result? A mere body. In John 6, Jesus said "the flesh is useless, it is the spirit which gives life." The atheist doesn't believe in spirit. So is he only a body? If so, that probably explains why he can't detect God.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • kenny

      wow that is exactly what the spahgetti monster bible says people would say about him... spahgetti psalms 2:15 "but even when you tell them you know for super super sure that i, the spahgetti monster who rules the universe from the dark side of the moon, exists they just won't believe you so you have to convince them by killing them, so sayeth the spahgetti monster, ruler of the known universe who resides on the dark side of the only moon of the 3rd planet from the sun in the infinite universe" ... lol

      December 2, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

      you forgot to mention that you can't detect the flying spaghetti monster being on the dark side of the moon because he doesn't want people be to be able to witness him. We could actually check the dark side of the moon for him, but if he's not detectible on purpose then we're in the clear.

      December 2, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
  7. derp

    I though he was Muslim?

    December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
  8. Polkovnik

    I personally see no evidence that Bob Jones III is a Christian.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • Really?

      Does it matter what you "personally see"?! Is it up to you? Can you even judge yourself?!

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Russell Johnson

      Ditto.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:28 am |
  9. Hasa Diga Eebowai

    Obama is just afraid of the Krampus

    December 2, 2011 at 11:20 am |
  10. demo joseph

    Amen to So Funny. He hit the nail on the head....

    December 2, 2011 at 11:16 am |
  11. L. D. in Denver

    And we are SUPPOSED to have separation of church and state. There should be no Christmas tree at the White House. All this open religiosity makes me sick. Yes, Obama is a Christian, but I wish he could be allowed to just keep that faith private, and not feel obliged to parade it in order to try to get more votes. Sigh. I'll vote for him again anyway, though, as I do believe that he is a much better, more moral person than the current crop of his disgusting Republican rivals, as well as a pretty good president. Obama/Biden 2012!

    December 2, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • hawaiiduude

      as long as the joos have a giant hanukah on the whitehouse lawn there will be a christian tree.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • John

      I'm glad that President Obama not only EXPRESSED his faith but so PUBLICALLY. This too is a right. The same people who don't celebrate Christmas or speak out against it are the same ones who enjoy the day off.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      As long as he does not let bronze age mythology alter his decision making he can hang a wreath around his nuts for all I care.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • sunblur

      Keep his religion private? I suppose if we all kept our faith private there would be no hospitals, schools, soup kitchens, support centers ... and on and on ... we would just sit around and think / feel great thoughts and feelings and DO Nothing ... think about it ... hopefully ones faith leads to the service of others ...

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Brett

      It's actually a Pagan Tree. Christians never want to admit that they stole the tradition from pagan celebrations. Show me a passage in the Bible where it says they should decorate a tree to honor the Birth of Christ. The only passage that refers to deorating a tree is Jeremiah 10:2-8, and it ironically FORBIDS to decorating of a tree as a form of heathen idolatry.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • kenny

      you gotta remember he has to play the xtian card just like the rest of them or the knuckle draggin morons which make up most of this country wouldn't feel comfortable voting for him. most vote gop but there are a percentage that are a little smarter and realize jeebus was about helping the poor even if the gubment does it. as an agnostic atheist i'd love to see a law that required those of faith to follow the rules of their faith and if they broke those rules would get punished by society instead of supposedly waiting for ggoodddsss.... i'd bet big money we'd see religion disappear.... lol

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • John

      It's sad that there is a continued misinterpretation of the amendment, that in no way says there shall be a separation of Church and State, only that the State may not establish a religion. The founding fathers understood perfectly that without a foundation built upon the revealed wisdom of God, there could be no lasting success for a Republic.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. – Thomas Jefferson

      December 2, 2011 at 11:29 am |
  12. N.Shapiro

    The 2 quotes; He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

    -Luke 10:27

    are originally in the "Tanach", the Jewish Bible, the first is also part of Jewish daily prayer.

    showing the origin of he ethical and moral teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

    "Merry Christmas" to those who observe it, and "Seasons Greetings" to those who observe other holidays at this period.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • hawaiiduude

      like ramadan, at least muslims love jesus. Not to forget hanukah is from an anti-jesus religion.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • hawaiiduude

      and dont forget what the joowish talmud say about jesus and christians. most hate filled religion against jesus and christians,

      December 2, 2011 at 11:21 am |
  13. MaryM

    AND Bob Jones is JUST AS HATEFUL as FRED PHELPS. ( westboro baptist church)

    December 2, 2011 at 11:13 am |
  14. Rainer Braendlein

    @DamianKnight

    I guess, Obama is of a "hyper-advanced" faith. This faith allows him to claim to be a Muslim and to claim to be a Christian at the same time. Seemingly, Obama has found the solution for a historical conflict.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:12 am |
    • MaryM

      rainer, you spew so much hate and BS, you must really hate yourself.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:16 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @MaryM

      Facts and hatred have nothing to do with each other.

      I just think that people have a right to know the facts.

      My small service is it to point to facts; I am not led by hatred.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • hawaiiduude

      uh.. at least muslims revere jesus as a prophet of god jewish talmud calls him the devil and a heretic.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • BRC

      He has never claimed to be a Muslim, others have accused him of it (with no proof), but he has never claimed it, so your comment as no basis.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @hawaiiduude

      In a way it is better to call Jesus a devil and a heretic, than to call him a prophet.

      Why?

      The fault of the Jews is absolutely obvious even for naive people.

      By the statement of the Muslims, Jesus would be a prophet, some naive people could be seduced and could assume Islam and Christianity could be friends. In fact Islam and Christianity are absolute enemies, because the Islam rejects the divine sonship of Jesus Christ. The Islam degrades Jesus a prophet or Iman. That is outrageous.

      The truth: Jesus is God and God is three. Christians ascribe a partner to Allah. We are associaters.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • DamianKnight

      He is a Christian.

      "I'm a Christian by choice. My family didn't – frankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didn't raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead – being my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me. I think also understanding that Jesus Christ dying for my sins spoke to the humility we all have to have as human beings, that we're sinful and we're flawed and we make mistakes, and that we achieve salvation through the grace of God. But what we can do, as flawed as we are, is still see God in other people and do our best to help them find their own grace. That's what I strive to do. That's what I pray to do every day. I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith." – Barack Obama, September 27, 2010

      December 2, 2011 at 11:44 am |
    • drinking glass

      Damian:
      ...but is he the right kind of Christian?

      December 2, 2011 at 11:56 am |
  15. MarkCali

    Now that it's voting time, Obama sheds his typical Muslim rhetoric to become Christian? No surprise there...

    December 2, 2011 at 11:11 am |
  16. David

    Everything finite, that is everything existing in time, has a cause of beginning outside of itself. The universe and everything in it began and will end. This is the cosmological argument. A teleological argument exists as well. This is based on a design and purpose in the universe that exits beyond the scope of human activity or even ability. Look to Saint Thomas Aquinas' five ways or similarly Averroes' argument. Cicero makes an argument (De Natura Deorim) related to reason which exists throughout the universe. This is somewhat related to Immanuel Kant's Transcendental argument drawing on pure reason and morality as proof. There is, as always, the Holy Bible as well.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • MarkCali

      Stop smoking it and shut up.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:12 am |
    • warmesTghosT

      The Holy Bible is full of inconsistencies, errors and outright lies. It is a major reason why many theists turn atheist.

      There is no historical or archaeological evidence for the Exodus, the Flood, the existence of Jesus or Moses, and many other very fundamental tenets of Christianity.

      Basically, the Bible proves that Christianity is false. Satire at its finest.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
  17. Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

    I know Jesus, he fixed my car last week. Jesus Diaz, good guy.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • hawaiiduude

      but out of respect to jesus any one named jesus nowadays is pronounces haysoos!

      December 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

      I thought it was a throw back like "Hey Zues."

      December 2, 2011 at 11:29 am |
  18. Matt

    Lets lay down some law here.
    1) atheists go and stop forcing your religion on everybody, it is exactly what you don't want us Christians to do. Stop being hypocrites.
    2) you are now thinking to your self atheism is not a religion. WRONG look up the definition for religion.
    3) I don't see anything wrong with this, i also don't see why this is news. This is no political event, it has no bearings on decisions being made. If you guys are actually that worried about the seperation of church and state remove all christmas trees and everything related to christmas. I realize that christmas was not first of all a christian event but the pagan holiday of saturnalia and christmas trees have nothing to do with the birth of jesus, but right now in society it is a time se taside by christians to reflect. And if you don't like that then go and stop celebrating it yourselves.
    4) Now i know trolls/other people will say well God doesn't exsist there is no proof
    i) Show me that he doesn't
    ii) explain to me scientifically how we all got here, as science is very logical this should not be a problem.( key word is scientifically)
    iii) Please respond and tell me why i am wrong in believing in God
    In summary religious atheists please just accept it Christmas as a christian holiday that if you have a problem with obama doing this then go and stay at work all of december, and think about why God doesn't exist.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      1) atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
      2) atheism is really not a strict belief but a range of belief from agnostic to fully believing that there is nothing governing the laws of our universe. This makes it very difficult for theist to comprehend as they see things in strict black and white.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:16 am |
    • Steve

      You never see any of them working on Christmas because they don't like those days off for a religious holiday 🙂

      December 2, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

      I believe that the universe was created by a garbleflawfin. prove to me it wasn't and he doesn't exist....

      You can't prove the none existence of something. If you take as truth anything you can't prove doesn't exist then all you will do is spend your time spinning your wheel on nonsense. Prove that they're aren't invisible unicorns. Unless you have evidence something exists the default position is that it is unlike that it does. That's all we have is probability of something and in all likelihood there is no god. "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer to where the universe came from. You don't need to go stick another unknown in there and claim God did it because then you have to answer the question "Where did God come from?" And you'll say he always existed, then why couldn't the universe always exist and cut out the middleman?

      December 2, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      We celebrate xmas/Yuel/winter season... So im guessing you go to work on jewish holidays?

      December 2, 2011 at 11:19 am |
    • Cedar Rapids

      lets see now.
      ok, first off, no matter how often you want to cliam it as such, atheism is not a religion and does not meet the criteria for a religion. I know you want to claim it as such so you can moan but sorry, go find something else.
      Secondly, how are people forcing atheism down your throats? Stating that to include everyone we dont focus on one faith is not forcing anything on anyone.
      Xmas trees and the like are a hangover or pagan holidays, same in fact with gift giving. So we have all the fun of the holidays with none of the religion. You call it what you want, we'll call it what we want.
      Its up to the person claiming something exists to prove it, not to the person that scoffs at the notion.
      And what are asking for about how we got here? evolution or the universe in general, seeing as they are not linked.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:19 am |
    • DamianKnight

      Yeah, I wouldn't exactly call atheism a "religion." I'd call it more of a "belief system."

      Like was said, I don't believe in unicorns or vampires...that doesn't make that a religion. That makes it part of my belief system.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:19 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      Matt,
      First of all...
      If you go strictly by definition then even your lack of a belief in unicorns is a religion. If you think that is true then by all means say Atheism is a religion.

      We're not trying to force our beliefs on everyone else. What we're trying to do is keep everyone else from forcing their beliefs on each other. Telling you not to talk about your god in public is not forcing our beliefs onto you, no matter what you say.

      I don't celebrate christmas, but the rest of my family does. And it's a great reason for everyone to come together and just be a family because everyone gets those days off anyways. I look at it more as a second thanksgiving except with presents.

      I'm sure you've heard that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim but I figured I'd say it anyways....

      Finally, how we got here...
      There was the big bang which could have been just about anything that started it, we don't know, but we do know it didn't have to be a god that did it.
      Next, atoms began to form because of the different forces in the universe, these atams started to fall together because of gravity and become stars which in turn created heavier atoms. Once these stars exploded, planets began to form along with second gen stars.

      On these planets, some of which had atmosphere, all the individual parts of DNA began to form. These eventually formed in such a was to create a tiny one celled life form. This life form reproduced and eventually evolved into the humans we see today.

      Sciency enough for you? I can be more specific if you want.

      You're not wrong to believe in god, you're wrong to expect everyone else to and to try and convince other people who can't understand how the universe works that it's a magical being that's doing it.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Really?

      "In summary religious atheists please just accept it Christmas as a christian holiday "

      The Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born. However, we know that the angels announced the birth of Christ to the Bethlehem shepherds in the open fields who were tending their flocks by night.. This fact certainly implies that the birth of Jesus could NOT have been on the 25th of December. "The cold of the night in Palestine between December and February is very piercing, and it was not customary for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October." Hislop,.

      In addition, Jesus Himself said, in speaking of the coming destruction of Jerusalem,
      "But pray that your flight be NOT in winter, neither on the Sabbathday."
      Matt 24:20

      Obviously, Jesus understood that the wintertime in Palestine was harsh enough to make traveling difficult and uncomfortable. If the winter was such a bad time in which to flee, it seems unlikely that the shepherds would be sleeping out in the fields while tending their sheep during that season.

      Because of these facts, and others to be discussed, it is virtually impossible for the birth of Christ to have occurred on December 25.

      "No such festival as Christmas was ever heard of until the THIRD century, and not until the FOURTH century was far advanced did it gain much observance.

      "Long before the fourth century, and long before the Christian era itself, a festival was celebrated among the HEATHEN, at that precise time of the year, in honor oft the birth of the son of the Babylonian queen of heaven; and it may fairly be presumed that, in order to conciliate the heathen, and to swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity, the same festival was adopted by the Roman Church, giving it only the name of Christ. This tendency on the part of Christians to meet Paganism half-way was very early developed."

      It is beyond doubt that Christmas was originally a pagan festival. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin.

      Isis, the Egyptian title for the "queen of heaven," gave birth to a son at this very time, about the time of the winter solstice. The term "Yule" is the Chaldee (Babylonian) name for "infant" or "little child."

      This pagan festival not only commemorated the figurative birthday of the sun in the renewal of its course, but it also was celebrated (on December 24) among the Sabeans of Arabia, as the birthday of the "Lord Moon."

      In Babylon, where the sun (Baal) was the object of worship, Tammuz was considered the incarnation of the Sun.

      "In the Hindu mythology, which is admitted to be essentially Babylonian, this comes out very distinctly. There, Surya, or the Sun, is represented as being incarnate, and born for the purpose of subduing the enemies of the gods, who without such a birth, could not have been subdued."

      There are many other Christmas counterparts of the Babylonian winter solstice festival, such as: 1) candles lighted on Christmas eve and used throughout the festival season were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him, 2) the Christmas tree was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir. The tree denoted the Pagan Messiah.

      "The mother of Adonis, the Sun God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognized as the ŒMan of the branch."

      The Yule log was considered the dead stock of Nimrod (or Tammuz, depending on the specific nation involved), deified as the sun god, but cut down by his enemies; the Christmas tree is Nimrod revived – the slain god come to life again.

      The Yule occultic colors are red and green.

      The mistletoe branch symbolized "the man, the branch" and was regarded as a divine branch – a corrupt Babylonian representation of the true Messiah. Both mistletoe and holly were considered fertility plants by the pagans.

      "Babylon was, at that time, the center of the civilized world; and thus Paganism, corrupting the Divine symbol as it ever has done, had opportunities of sending forth its debased counterfeit of the truth to all the ends of the earth, through the Mysteries that were affiliated with the great central system in Babylon."

      The story of the death of Adonis, also known as Tammuz, involved a fatal wound from the tusk of a boar when Tammuz was 40 years old. That is why a boar was sacrificed on this Pagan holiday. Even today, a Christmas ham is a traditional favorite of many.

      Etc...etc..etc....

      December 2, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Matt

      @lacking evidence since 14 billion BCE
      You have contradicted your self. Your name implies that you believe the world's age is in that specific range, but when you try defend evolutionism your response is," I don't know is a perfectly acceptable response". So you know, but you have no way to prove it as it just probability. Does it not worry you that the most basic question does not have any logic in it at all? Now i assume since you said 14 billion years you are a big bang/evolution man, I am not against the big bang theory, i Just have a different method of explanation. Where did the material for the big bang come from, out of a mass of anti matter and matter whose balances switched? To answer this question we must go into an infinite regression and as we all know infinity does not exist, it is just a concept. I think that no matter what way you look at it theism makes just as much valid sense.
      @Cedar Rapids
      How are they not linked?? if the universe exsisted, how do we exist with out design?... Evolution.
      religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
      You people are right to a certain extent
      Certain criteria are met and some are not, in my mind atheism is void of anything moral for that is almost its definition.
      Like Nietzsche said God is dead, we have killed him so where do you get your morals from, definitely not from genetics. wait for another hundred years and humanity will be very different from today, I doubt for the better.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Matt

      @ im the best
      where did you learn that gr 8? you are just regurgitating the classical evolutionary mantra. sorry for the mocking but that is what i meant by keep it scientific. By definition Science is unable to prove/disprove evolution.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ Matt
      Wow, thanks for being so nice.... a/ss
      Anyways, science may not be able to prove/disprove evolution but science can't prove/disprove that gravity will work forever and all the time either. But there is enough evidence for both of these that you can say they're right. The only other explination other than evolution is creation, and there is little to no evidence for that whereas there are mountains of evidence for evolution. Plus you can see it in the human population; ear lobes are disappearing, pinky toes are disappearing, people's IQ's are going up.

      Scientists have also seen small changes in plant life over time that point towards the plant evolving. Like a second generation of plant being resistant to a chemical that would kill the first generation.

      December 2, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • Matt

      @ Im the best
      Those are cases of micro not macro evolution

      December 2, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • Cedar Rapids

      "How are they not linked??"
      Erm because one deals with how the universe came into existence, the other deals with how life arose on this and other planets. Two totally different areas of research.
      Its like suggesting that volcanoes and the invention of computers are tightly linked.

      The important bit of your religion definition: "especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances"

      The morality we follow is the morality of society. And you are right that it could be very different in a couple of hundred years, just like despite this magical christian morality, slavery was accepted a couple of hundred years ago.

      December 2, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ Matt
      I don't understand how micro evolution doesn't prove/logically lead to macro evolution. Eventually with enough micro evolution, macro evolution happens. Are you expecting to see macro evolution happen within just a few hundred years? Because I can tell you that it's not going to happen. Large changes in evolution happen over hundreds of thousands of years.

      December 2, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • Lacking Evidence since 14 Billion BCE

      @Matt on both counts you are confusing extremely long time scales. Roughly 14 billion years is the age of our current universe. Beyond that we're unsure. Is there a multi-verse? do universes pop in and out of existence constantly, do universes continuously expand and contract and start over? Who knows. The matter that makes up our universe could have always existed somewhere in some form.

      As far as evolution if 1 changing to do is macro evolution and .00001 is micro, eventually you add .00001 to 1 it'll eventually equal 2. You're having a problem with grasping the timescale involved because a human living for 100 years is only around for 1/45,000,000 of the time the earth has been here.

      December 2, 2011 at 1:07 pm |
  19. MaryM

    Mr President, thank you for the nice thoughts this holiday season. And Happy Holidays to all.

    December 2, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • Merry Christmas

      Merry Christmas your Jew

      December 2, 2011 at 11:56 am |
  20. Bailey

    great campaign tactic!!

    December 2, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • AGuest9

      Now, all he has to do is get all teary-eyed and go on TV, like Reagan. Oh, wait, he'd have to kill a bunch of astronauts that were to act as a back-drop for the State of the Union address.

      December 2, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Peter

      Bailey wrote: "Great campaign tactic":::::

      Yeah, and what would the response be if he DIDN'T mention Christ. If one does not like Obama, then he is wrong WHATEVER he does, right? This is the empty logic of the fanboy.

      December 2, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.