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Perry hits Obama for war on faith, despite a ghost of 'holiday season' past
December 7th, 2011
04:54 PM ET

Perry hits Obama for war on faith, despite a ghost of 'holiday season' past

By Kevin Liptak, CNN

(CNN) – Rick Perry doubled down on his religion-based attack of President Barack Obama Wednesday, saying the president was preventing students from celebrating Christmas in schools. But just last year, Perry issued a holiday statement as governor of Texas that omits any mention of the Christian holiday.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Perry said Obama and the political left were waging a "war on religious traditions," including preventing students from praying in schools and having Christmas parties.

"What we're seeing from the left, of which I would suggest to you, President Obama is a member of the left and substantial left-of-center beliefs, that you can't even have a Christmas party. You can't say a prayer at school," Perry said in an interview airing on CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer."

But in a holiday statement to troops issued by his office on Dec. 22, 2010 and posted on the governor's website, Perry fails to mention Christmas at all, sticking instead to more general terms like "holiday season."

FULL STORY

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- Dan Merica

Filed under: Politics • Religious liberty • Rick Perry • TV-The Situation Room

soundoff (273 Responses)
  1. Margarita Brown

    Anderson I am keeping you honest. Was not Obama who said that we are not a Christian nation? and also a crucifix or a cross has to be covered at york town university when he gave a speech? you are an obama microfone, hipocrit

    December 9, 2011 at 1:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It was GEORGETOWN U. , you moronic dolt. It's a "microPHONE", idiot.

      December 10, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
  2. Tea Party Crasher

    I'm amazed that people are actually in line with this belief system.

    December 8, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
  3. Sean

    Athiest Hunter – Please kindly cut out the grandstanding. God gave humans free will, they're allowed to not believe in his existance. The Apostles couldn't convert everyone they preached to, and trying to do the same over the internet isn't the best method for spreading the Word of God.

    Various Athiests – The bashing isn't going to convince him to renounce his beliefs, so please quiet down. If you don't enjoy having Christian beliefs shoved in your faces, don't do the same to Christians. I have an issues not with athiests, but people who go around self-assuredly preaching religion/anti-religion and think that they are better than their opposite number for it (That's just the feeling I get from people like that).

    Neither group is completely good or completely bad (we're all human). Theists and atheists both have their saints and sinners (I use this in both loose and strict terms). No matter how many cited facts or quotes you throw at one another, neither side is going to budge from where they stand. This is not a world of black and white like most want to believe. This a world covered various shades of gray. I hope you think about that and understand.

    – A simple philisophical Roman Catholic

    December 8, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • Heather

      AMEN!!!

      December 8, 2011 at 8:14 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      wow times have changed since when has Catholics been so understanding,…dude do me a favor and apologize for all the witch burnings and denouncing the morality teaching in Deuteronomy and we will be good ill be your friend if you get the pope to rewrite “thou shall not suffer a witch to live” you know (Exodus 22:17) written out of the bible we can actually be friends

      December 8, 2011 at 8:24 pm |
    • Jake

      Sorry, but people who THINK and come to their own conclusions rather than just blindly believing some story that is blatantly false ARE better. All views are not created equal on any other subject, why should religion get a pass? The evidence is clear: religion is wrong. Am I supposed to treat people who don't believe in gravity as equals? If not, why would I treat people who believe in religion as equals? I understand there is a brain-washing factor and that somewhat excuses a temporary belief in religion, but that excuse expires by age 20 or so.

      December 10, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
  4. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, storms, and other natural disasters, plus cancers, lupus, typhoid, malaria, and other diseases too numerous to mention, that have caused horrid suffering and death to millions of innocent people.

    Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. And I'm an ugly and fat saggy old hag. And I fa-rt too much.

    December 8, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
  5. .........

    dis embellish reality hit report abuse early and as often as possible

    December 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
  6. Reality

    And some final words from Thomas Jefferson, not a contemporary NT scholar, but indeed a very learned man:

    "And the day will come,
    when the mystical generation of Jesus,
    by the Supreme Being as His Father,
    in the womb of a virgin,
    will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva
    in the brain of Jupiter.

    – Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
    Letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823.

    More about TJ:

    Thomas Jefferson omitted the Book of Revelation along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31

    December 8, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • Ironicus

      I sure hope that these really are your "final words"...nah, just kidding. You should dialogue more and demagogue less.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
    • Reality

      Christmas, the embellished story of the birth of a simple, preacher man named Jesus.

      As per most contemporary NT exegetes, his parents were Mary and Joseph although some say Jesus was a mamzer, the result of a pre-marital relationship between Mary and a Roman soldier.

      Jesus was not born in Bethlehem at least the one we are familiar with and there were no pretty wingie thingies singing from on high, no slaughter of the innocents by Herod, no visiting wise men and no escape to Egypt.

      Conclusion: the holyday of Christmas is historically a non-event. Ditto for the Feast of the Magi and the solemnity of Mary aka New Years day.
      Kwanza

      December 8, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
    • Reality

      American Heritage Dictionary:
      dem·a·gogue

      also dem·a·gog (dĕm'ə-gôg', -gŏg')
      n. 1. A leader who obtains power by means of impassioned appeals to the emotions and prejudices of the populace.
      2. A leader of the common people in ancient times.
      tr.v., -gogued, also -goged, -gogu·ing, -go·ging, -gogues, -gogs.
      Usage Problem. To speak about (an issue, for example) in the manner of a demagogue.

      [Greek dēmagōgos, popular leader : dēmos, people + agōgos, leading (from agein, to lead).]

      USAGE NOTE Among the nouns that the Usage Panel is loath to see used as a verb is demagogue, meaning "to speak about something in the manner of a demagogue." Ninety-four percent reject it in the sentence The President will demagogue Medicare, unwilling to acknowledge that fundamental reforms need to be made. Resistance to the use of traditional nouns as verbs is sometimes strong, especially when the novel usages are associated with business or bureaucratic jargon.

      Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/demagogue#ixzz1fzNkvGUK

      December 8, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
  7. Curious

    Would anyone court the non-theist vote? Obviously not Rick Perry, but anyone? Surprising if not. Self-identified non-theists are about 5% of the U.S. population. Jews, in comparison, are a bit over 2% of the population and, as we've seen recently, the Republican field is aggressively seeking the Jewish vote. Are non-theists lacking in influence?

    December 8, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Courting the non-theists would probably be impossible since all that most of us probably want is to be left alone by the right-wing they are already courting.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:12 pm |
    • Ironicus

      We are actually more like 15 to 20 percent of the population. A few points can swing an election. Being narrow-minded, exclusionary, and bigoted has a real tendency to reduce your voter base. The GOP is being run by batshlt crazy idiots.
      Good thing they can't win over the Dems. We don't need a theocracy run by traitors.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • Shem Azaz

      That’s because there untrustworthy there always ruining the peace making a ruckus, and biting the heads of everyone they meet. There generally unhappy and loyal to no one they had a hard life like the rest of us and take it out on everyone including other atheist. Also the statistic does not separate agnostics and atheist its probably closer to .5%. those stats are always completely misleading you asking do you believe in god?.. yes I do you ask me if I like him no I don’t? we don’t say your god does not exists we believe all god do does not mean we like him

      December 8, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Curious<
      "Would anyone court the non-theist vote?"
      I would say it's unlikely for two reasons.
      1 Atheists, I don't think are hierarchy/organizational inclined, i.e. independent. The phrase 'herding cats' comes to mind.
      2 Atheists are more valuable as the out-group against which to form conservatives, which do seem to organizationally inclined and therefore more likely to vote as a block.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
  8. Same Yazah

    You want prof the bible says love god, fear god, there is no fear in love. 100% accurate like Dick Chaney

    December 8, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      You forget that these are also some of the people that conflate fear and respect.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      That’s because they prey to a tyrant. Also yes I know I spelled prey wrong, it has nothing to do with me being from a pre iron-age religion I see no deference between prey and pray when vied in the Christian light.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
  9. Atheist Hunter

    Only 1 way Jesus Christ of the Bible!

    December 8, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • Sid

      He did it all 3 ways.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      Only one way to Heaven Jesus Christ.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Looking for me? I'm an atheist. Or maybe you're an atheist who is also a hunter? LOL
      Didn't think about it too hard, did ya? lol

      December 8, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      I found you didn't I so it must of worked pretty good!

      December 8, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      I'm on a religious blog where all the atheist hang out trying to convince each other there is not God cause their soul tells them different. I'm not blogging with deer.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Athiest Hunter, if heaven is real, where is it. Should be a simple question.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      It's surrounding the throne of God. Simple!

      December 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Heaven is in the bathroom?

      December 8, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      Your's is, that's were you'll be hiding while we're in the real heaven.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      You cr@p in your toilet and I'll cr@p in mine. Works for me. Nice to see we are in agreement!

      December 8, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      You're the one who chimed in, why ya crying?

      December 8, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Without a god, all your parading around really looks stupid when you are clearly without any real facts to back you up.
      You brought a dull stick to a gunfight. You are the poo on the end of that stick, too. How ironic.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Athiest Hunter

      Where is the throne of God located? Please try to avoid using circular logic. Thanks in advance.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:07 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      iron........where's your proof he doesn't exist? That's right you don't have any, you're theory is just a fairytale cause you can't prove it.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      Under God!

      December 8, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Athiest Hunter

      I believe in Leprechauns. They are real. You can't prove that they are not. That is your logic? Fail.

      If you want to convince me that something is real, prove it. The burden of proof is on you.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:15 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Personally, I keep my proof of the non-existence of the Christian god in the same cabinet you keep your proof of the non-existence of Zeus. You do have that proof in there don't you? If not I hope you are as open to the possibility of Zeus as you wish for everyone to be about your personal god. I'm still agnostic on Santa and the bunny. I keep holding out hope for those two.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      Atheist hunting? Can a pagan get in on that it sounds like fun? Let me see you pseudo-nihilistic-ideologist, when are you going to realize that the belief in the abstract make it real. Because one believes in God, God becomes real. God is not a universal truth it is an opinion, much like your own so god is as real as your opinion. Sorry this is probably all way beyond your intelligence after all you believe you can multiply Absolut 0 to get 1

      December 8, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • George

      @Atheist Hunter

      Better watch out. If you believe in traditional Christian morality and believe that Jesus is the only way, they will be labeling you a bigot.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:21 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      When Zeus' inspires people over a 1400 years period to write a book with 100% accuracy up until the very moment that you and I are speaking that is totally prophetically accurate account of the past and present then call me.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Only if you define your religion in terms that are indistinguishable from bigotry.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Geoge is a bigot and the Easter Bunny is real. I have proof!

      December 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Feel free to do the same when Christians manage the same feat.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      saem.....It depends on what you are wanting to get in on, the debate of Heaven and God, sure. Pagans and heaven, sorry no. Worshipping the wrong god for that.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      George....names don't hurt me, my fear is of Hell and I only care about the one who can save me from hell.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Athiest Hunter
      Did you just say the Bible is accurate?? LMFAO!!!!

      Ask yourself this simple question AH: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement?

      If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

      Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you read what the Bible actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

      The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Ironicus

      So "hunter", what flavor of proof would you like? I've got all sorts here.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:29 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      um Zeus may not have any followers, but Amaterasu has been around for more the 5000 years and her message has remand 100% accurate if there is such a thing from an opinion. You know what forget this, sheep is taster 100% accurate you really that arrogant. Beware the price for hubris is death.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      George, where is hell? Does the bad 'ol devil have a pointy tail and horns too? How did his skin get all red like that?

      December 8, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Get Real

      Atheist Hunter: "...a book with 100% accuracy up until the very moment that you and I are speaking that is totally prophetically accurate account of the past and present..."

      The Bible may be a fairly accurate record of some of the primitive Middle Eastern Hebrew people and places, and of their culture, and the myths, legends and superst-itions which they believed in. There is not a shred of verified evidence for any of the supernatural beings or events in that book.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:33 pm |
    • captain america

      Hell appears to have a major portal just north of the Great Lakes , and to the east and west somewhat.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      ungodly dying soul...............We are it is you who are not because you quench the spirit and only with the spirit can you have an awe for the things of God. In atheists terms you declined the power to understand when you reject Jesus Christ.
      10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[c] 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      Iron.........the same you want that there is a God. The kind that leaves nothing to doubt, the kind I can see and touch, nothing left to wonder about. You want to know the exact location of Heaven so while you disprove God and Heaven I want undeniable facts proven, tested, and tried with no room for doubt. The kind you expect me to provide. Get with it!

      December 8, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      same................no not me arrogant, my GOD is that real and amazing that you can't begin to touch it! He confounds the wicked.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • Atheist Hunter

      Get Real.................you don't get out much do you. Check out the new in israel right now this very date about what is happening at the temple mount then read your bible, look at the worldwide economy crashing and the riots worldwide and then read your bible. I challenge you to read any part of your bible and check history and see if it hasn't come to past or is in the process of coming to past.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      You still blathering on about the same kind of proof you are so unable to provide as well? Show some proof of your god if you wish to be taken seriously. So far I've seen bugger-all in the proof department, just a lot poorly written stories.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      sooo the only way to have a soul is to obey a tyrant? I have to disagree everything has a soul dude from a barnacle to the sun, from a pebble to a star.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Get Real

      Atheist Hunter: "10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit."

      Ol' Paul of Tarsus again... why would you believe him? Because he *said* so? You would not buy a used car from that guy today. He was a misogynistic, misanthropic, ranting, raving zealot - a skilled promoter, who latched onto that early first century cult and ran with it.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      ...actualy you can touch God, and killing him rather easy, fist you know gods real name, then you kill his 9 seraphim or aspects then you dive your blade into that toddlers face,…or you can just play Shin Megami Tensei II

      December 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      AH
      We've got spirit yes we do! We've got spirit how 'bout you?

      December 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Atheist Hunter must be correct. We are nearing end times. Don't let the last few (hundred) failed predictions get you down. I strongly suggest everyone read what Marilyn Agee has to say about end times – she's put a lot of work into her predictions and I think you will come away amused and educated.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      A.H. Of course it's all come about before and continuing to come about. Va.gue predictions about the likelihood of people being mean to each other are sure winners every time! 2000 years and counting and still a no show should be a bit of a hint. But there is nothing like faith to get you through all those ratio.nal doubts!

      December 8, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Big Chris

      @Atheist Hunter

      I don't think your going at this the correct way. This isn't what Christ did to bring people to him. Just rethink your approach on this.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:52 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Then I give you the sum of human knowledge and science, including all modern discoveries, tests, studies, and all that.
      There you have it. No god anywhere and all your Bible disproved, debunked and obliterated.
      Every prayer is answered by random events or collaborative hoaxing.
      Every miracle is a hoax. Every statement you make supporting your faith an easily demonstrated lie.
      Really I could go on, but I see no need. Your god is not here and says nothing to anyone, as can be easily demonstrated at any time and has been tested and studied for hundreds and thousands of years.
      Your non-existent "god" does nothing, says nothing, makes no signs or portents, and very clearly does not exist.

      And as the cherry on the cake, YOU have absolutely NOTHING to support ANYTHING regarding your "faith" but your easily debunked opinion. An opinion is not a fact but a mere assertion. Assertions can be tested, examined, and analyzed
      I have done so. Yours loses so bad it's a wonder you don't start bleeding from every orifice.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      So if science cannot prove something it’s not real, I guess the big bang never happened ether. You need to readdress your idea of skepticism there are only 3 absolute truths and your opinion is not one of them I will say it again the belief in the abstract make the abstract real.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Same Yazah

      You know “I think there for I am” that too is not an absolute truth

      December 8, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Belief in the abstract does not automatically confer factual existence upon that abstract beyond being a mere concept within the brain. Just because you can think up something does not make it real. There's a word for that sort of fallacy but I can't remember it just now. "Delusion" will have to do for now. You are delusional. But thanks for responding.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • Shem Azaz

      no problem.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Observer

      You know what Atheist Hunter (among others)? You're right! There's only one way! Jesus! All these "atheists" here on this forum are here to help convince each other that they're right, because misery loves company. I don't think any of these atheists have given any deep thoughts to their religious beliefs at all. None of them. I think all atheists have traveled through their individual lives and never taken a single moment to ponder the important questions. Moreover, I don't think there is a single college-educated atheist in the world. I don't think a single atheist has arrived at their current opinion of God as a result of any research, reading, or dialogue with humans. Moreover, I think atheists, just because of their opinions, are actually worthless human beings with nothing intelligent to offer to society. I also think that political candidates who smear others for not being religious enough are completely justified. It's actually a direct manifestation of one's own religious convictions! Its like that story from the Bible–where Jesus goes to that town and tells the mayor that he doesn't deserve to continue as a mayor because he's not religious enough and everyone cheers and puts Jesus on their shoulders and carries Him–and countless other analogous parables. Ha, that was so Jesus! You're right!

      OK, so before I get into the myriad reasons that you are wrong, I should disclose that if you couldn't detect my sarcasm as I was summarizing your–and oddly enough, the GOP's–opinion, then you should stop reading right here because you just won't comprehend anything else in this post anyway.

      You, atheist hunter, and people like you are the single biggest reason that other intelligent, compassionate people are leaving the church. Give yourself a nice pat on the back. I have absolutely no problem with Jesus, none. I have a problem with the people who apparently have all the answers already, so everyone stop debating and looking, the American evangelical church figured it all out. Yeah, it feels funny even typing that. Your quote "Only 1 way Jesus" is great because it aligns so nicely with the current American evangelical "us-vs-them" mentality, which so many of your wing-nut church pastors convince you is godly. Hey they convinced GWB, and he's really smart! (oh wait...) Do you realize your quote could've EASILY been recited word for word by any number of Conquistadores (who brought such a message of peace to the world) or other ethnic-cleansing proponents. Only 1 way, Jesus? Really? First of all do you realize how thoroughly UN-AMERICAN that is? For all your right-wing faux-patriotism, you could not possibly be any more anti-American in that sentiment. Anyone find it ironic that all the self-proclaimed "patriots" are from the south and the Bible-belt, specifically Texas, the only state that ACTUALLY COMMITTED TREASON against its own country? Hmmmm.

      If you actually read the Bible–which you obviously don't (most evangelicals don't) or you'd have better substantiation to your ignorant proclamations–you will learn that Jesus didn't travel the middle-east telling people what to believe, he showed them how to live. This is the essence of Him and his life on Earth, and it is COMPLETELY lost on American evangelicals. The true meaning of Jesus' teachings slip through your fingers like sand. But its ok, you have a LOT of other people on your side, so you must be right. Because we all know that the truth of any statement is completely determined by the volume of people that believe it to be true. I think a lot of Germans circa 1939-1945 would agree with you! But hey we're not really that far removed from fascism in the U.S. anyway, so it looks like (your) God's will is manifesting itself already!

      I went for my undergrad at a very urban, international-laden university in Philadelphia (not too long ago), and was a part of the campus Christian club for a year. They were called "Campus Crusade for Christ". Why they would choose that name is completely beyond me. Here's what actually goes on at said clubs. Everyone sensors themselves and shrouds their personalities in pretense. Everyone collectively, and passively, agrees that there are things we should all do, and things we should all believe. Realistically though, most of us were just looking (in the wrong place) for principled and moral people to hook up with and date. A few years after I escaped, I saw a friend of mine (from said cult) with a mic and amp in the middle of campus shouting at 2 random girls walking together to their next class, calling for them to rebuke their apparent lesbianism and repent to God. He was only following the example of any number of street preachers that came before him. He was 20 at the time. Even then (circa 2000), the fear-based, manipulative, coercive methods of the evangelical church had aligned themselves perfectly with the methods of the fear-based, Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld politics. Man, did Karl Rove work fast! Do you see the parallel here?

      Lets get to the Bible itself. The Bible is a book comprised of other books, NONE of which were written during the time Jesus lived. The Bible was compiled by the Roman emperor Augustus, for the purpose of uniting the flourishing Christian population with the existing pagan populations (i.e. worshiping on "Sun"days). This is of course why there are other religious texts that address the same subject, that didn't "make it in". The majority of the Bible, esp. the new testament, was originally in Greek, translated decades letter from events that actually occurred in Aramaic. The version you read was yet another translation into English. Now think of any new top-seller book, or movie, or show. Think about how much of the plot, the humor, the references, is culture and time-specific. A lot right? 100 years from now, how much of the humor from The Simpsons will be understandable in the fullest sense? How much of the poignant political message of "The Wire" will be comprehensible and pertinent? Even if your answer is 95%, if we're still talking about the biggest question posed to mankind, so I think I want 100%. How can you wage an intellectually stable argument when this is your foundation? How can any intelligent discourse happen when the only reply to that is, "I know because I just know"? Your entire argument is based on pre-supposition. Look it up.

      I think salvation has more to it than geography and upbringing. I think there's more to it than echoing the beliefs of our parents, putting our flags in the sand and denouncing all others. I am not an atheist, though I'm sure you labeled me as one several paragraphs ago. I believe Jesus lived. And if he were to visit the U.S. today, he would be crucified again, by the evangelicals, probably in Texas, or Arkansas, or some place in the Bible belt where His message has been completely lost. He would be viewed as an anti-Christ, because brainless lemmings like you think that Revelation has anything to do with God or spirituality. Its an allegory, like most of the books in the Bible. It's John's underhanded, nifty little display of insubordination toward the Roman empire.

      And if there's anyone else left in their bubble, I hate to burst it but Perry, Bachmann, Cain, Obama, all politicians really don't care about religion. If you can't understand that all this crap is a vote-grab, if you think any of these politicians who go out of their way to (self) promote their faith are sincere, stop kidding yourself. If you still vote for the President and LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD based on religion, you are IRRESPONSIBLE. Grow up.

      And to atheist hunter– Until you can establish any intellectual ground to stand on, shut up and get the f*** off your right-wing Christian moral pedestal.

      VOTE NOBODY in 2012
      Change will only come from the people

      December 8, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
    • Tea Party Crasher

      No response to that? Shock and awe!

      December 8, 2011 at 11:39 pm |
    • laughing

      Observer, tell us how you REALLY feel! Don't be shy!

      December 9, 2011 at 5:11 am |
    • Paul cohen

      yea we should kill everyone who is not a christian, and you can pick them out

      December 11, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
  10. Martin Brynildsen

    I guess lots of these comments come from people who think they stay in touch with life via these forums. They seem to eventually be so caught up with themselves that they proceed to dictate rules for everyone here. Lots of idle time...quite idle! Yes, one's faith is something of a continuing conversion, and understanding that this life is worth more than that of say, a wolverine. The practice of religion must be a corporate experience, as we are accountable to God, and to each other.

    December 8, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Hypocrisy is so ironic when coming from a delusional person. There's nothing quite like it in the world.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • Sid

      Martin: you guessed wrong.

      And your BOMITS doesn't exist.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Wolverines are awesome. I am sure if there were a God, he would favor Wolverines over humans.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Stick bugs too.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Paul cohen

      alright good show dude best one yet

      December 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
    • John Richardson

      OK, Martin. Let's settle this. You can wrestle a wolverine and the winner gets to be pinnacle of creation!

      December 11, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
  11. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    Perry the meat puppet. blah blah blah god! blah bla blah jebus! blah blah blah vote for me!

    December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Do you guys have any sisters?

      December 8, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.