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Bush aide finds forgiveness and a second career
Tim Goeglein was fired for plagiarism but found forgiveness from the president he wronged.
December 13th, 2011
09:23 AM ET

Bush aide finds forgiveness and a second career

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Washington (CNN)– Tim Goeglein never expected to see the president again, let alone get called into the Oval Office, because he committed the ultimate Washington sin - he betrayed the boss.

"The leader of the free world has lots of people to see, he has lots of things to do," Goeglein said, sitting in his office at Focus on the Family, where he is now vice president of external relations.

"The thing that leaders of the free world don't often do, probably, is ask aides who have just embarrassed them and brought shame upon the White House, they don't typically invite them to the Oval Office," he said.

But that Goeglein said is exactly what then-President George W. Bush did.

February 29, 2008, Goeglein said, was the worst day of his life.

He was made. His secret exposed.

Goeglein was a staffer in the Bush administration, an aide to Karl Rove, who dealt with faith-based groups.

That day in 2008, Goeglein was caught plagiarizing a column he wrote for his hometown paper in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Goeglein copied large sections of an essay for The News-Sentinel nearly verbatim from author Jeffery Hart, whose writings appeared in the Dartmouth Review in 1998.

Goeglein had written a weekly column for the paper and after the plagiarism was first discovered, editor Kerry Hubartt said they found instances of plagiarism in two other columns from Goeglein.

Once he was found out, Goeglein knew his actions would reflect on his boss, the president. He resigned and thought he would be banished from the Beltway forever, a fate he says he fully deserved.

That day the White House issued a terse statement:

"Today, Tim accepted responsibility for the columns published under his name in his local newspaper, and has apologized for not upholding the standards expected by the President."

"The President was disappointed to learn of the matter, and he was saddened for Tim and his family. He has long appreciated Tim's service, and he knows him to be a good person who is committed to his country," the statement read.

"It is true. I am entirely at fault. It was wrong of me. There are no excuses," Goeglein wrote at the time in an e-mail apologizing to The News-Sentinel.

"I was not the senior-most person and I was not a confidant to the president," he says now, but his fall from grace was spectacular nonetheless.

But what was unknown at the time was what happened behind closed doors between the aide and the president.

In a new book, "Man in the Middle: An Inside Account of Faith and Politics in the George W. Bush Era," Goeglein paints a picture of a sympathetic president who forgave him, an act that allowed him to have that rarest of political moments, a second act in Washington.

He was exposed on a Friday and promptly resigned, confessing what he had done.

It was a bad place for any employee to be - let alone the liaison to the Christian community.

Monday, he came back to clean out his desk.

The White House chief of staff stopped by and told him, "The boss wants to see you."

A few days later, Goeglein found himself in front of the president.

Goeglein writes he tried to apologize but was cut off.

"Tim, I want you to know I forgive you," Goeglein recounts the president told him. He tried again to apologize and again was cut off by President Bush.

"I have known mercy and grace in my own life, and I am offering it to you now. You are forgiven."

The president then asked him to join him in front of the fireplace in a chair normally used by the vice president or heads of state for photo opportunities. The two chatted about the past eight years working together, and they prayed, Goeglein writes.

Goeglein said the president invited him back to the White House numerous times after that meeting, including with his family the week after the act of forgiveness, validating Goeglein in front of his wife and children. He also attended the president's farewell at Andrews Air Force Base in 2009.

Had he kept his nose clean, Tim Goeglein would have likely gone unnoticed by history.

But is it precisely because of his sin that his words are given weight.

He says he saw a side of Bush that he says bears recording, one of compassion rooted in faith. That intersection of faith and public life stirred him to reopen a personal and public wound. He wanted to show, "How does the man live his faith?"

"I experienced as a result of George W. Bush's grace and mercy, at a very personal level, a very important chapter of forgiveness in my own life and the ability to start again," he said.

Goeglein says Bush's legacy is being looked at anew, a fact which played into his decision to write the book.

When Bush left office he was deeply unpopular. The country was mired in a down economy and two wars.

"I wanted to show, not just how his faith impacted the domestic and foreign and security policies, which I do, but I also wanted to show in real human terms how his faith impacted his relationships," Goeglein said.

From his desk in the second floor of a bright town house at Focus on the Family in Washington, Goeglein can look across the street to the Supreme Court. His walls are covered with artifacts from a career inside the beltway: photos of him with Bush, a Richard Nixon autograph, an Inauguration ticket stub, reproductions of the founding documents.

In his new capacity he has worked with President Barack Obama on his fatherhood initiative, a program that has crossed party lines.

As far as Goeglein is concerned, none of this would be possible were it not for a single act of forgiveness.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Church and state • Politics

soundoff (422 Responses)
  1. Paul

    lol Bush was sympathetic because he probably plagiarized all his term papers in college.

    December 14, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
  2. FauxNews

    Crooks of a feather, flock together.

    December 14, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
  3. The Dude

    Why would Bush care? I am sure he plagiarized his way through college.

    December 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
  4. Alfred E Neuman

    Nice photo. Clown clones?

    December 14, 2011 at 9:38 am |
  5. Jimtanker

    Why does CNN keep putting stuff like this in the Belief Blog? This has nothing at all to do with religion.

    December 14, 2011 at 2:49 am |
    • AGuest9

      They feel that they can pull the Higgs boson into it, so who knows what their criteria actually are.

      December 14, 2011 at 10:10 am |
    • wonderwall

      It's because Tim is a Focus on the Family lobbyist. But yes.

      December 14, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
  6. George

    The Bible is quite clear on repentance and forgiveness. It's not all that difficult.

    December 14, 2011 at 12:02 am |
    • HellBent

      Yup, if your child curses you, don't forgive, just start throwing stones. It's right there in black and white.

      December 14, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Damn straight! Kill that little heathen bas-stard!

      December 14, 2011 at 12:42 am |
    • fred

      Hey George hang in there we have em on the ropes

      December 14, 2011 at 1:00 am |
    • fred

      I do not have anything to forgive HellBent or Ungodly for yet. But, God has gifted me with patience...................ok still waiting patiently.......................

      December 14, 2011 at 1:02 am |
    • fred

      Enough, I am tired of waiting. I forgive HellBent and Ungodly for what they were thinking

      December 14, 2011 at 1:03 am |
    • George

      @Hellbent

      I guess you missed the entire New Testament. I recommend that you take a Bible class.

      December 14, 2011 at 9:48 am |
    • Huh?

      "guess you missed the entire New Testament."

      LOL! From your Jesus: " Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. "

      December 14, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • HellBent

      The bible includes the old testament. I guess you skipped too many of those bible classes.

      December 14, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • o.k.

      @ Huh? & Hellbent...Let me guess, you're both farmers right? Cherry farmers to be exact right? Cherry picking comes easy to you. If you don't want to quote the bible in context, then don't bother at all. Even educated atheists know that you have to look at all of scripture in the context that it was written to accurately interpret it. You may not agree with what is says, but at least be fair in its use.

      December 14, 2011 at 11:34 am |
    • George

      @ok

      Amen.

      December 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
    • HellBent

      @ok, then please help me figure out how I'm supposed to take stoning one's children in context. Also, please provide the passages that show that the old testament is not relevant. By ignoring those parts of the old testament that you find inconvenient, you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of. That would make you a hypocrite.

      December 14, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Huh?

      "Cherry picking comes easy to you. "

      Ok ready....being gay is not a sin! Now watch what happens. LOL!

      December 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • fred

      HellBent
      You are taking the old stone the baby verse out of context with the Bible that must be taken as a whole. Jesus stopped the religeous leaders from stonning the woman caught in adultry, Jesus blasted theses leaders for many things. One was making laws and consequences against people that they (leaders) could not even bare up against. Stonning is a no go as are many of the laws that were of men not of God. Jesus referred to the laws of God not laws of man when he said those laws still apply.

      December 14, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • fred

      Huh
      Jesus did not specifically mention the sin of ho mo$exuality during his lifetime. He addressed the problem with forcing one to be celebate where that was not the individuals God given gift. He addressed the problem with churches that allow $exual immorality as a show of tolerance. He addressed sin that destroys the soul of others. We know from the words of Jesus that we are not to be tolerant of immorality and clearly never think even a hateful thought towards a ho mo$exual. The pathway given is to seek first the Kingdom of God and all else will be given onto you. The heart and action of the Christian thus should be to bring people to Christ so they can share in the mercy and grace that flows from the love of God. If they reject you and reject Christ then we are to move on.

      December 14, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • o.k.

      @hellbent...see Romans Chapter 7.

      December 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • o.k.

      @Hellbent...I'm not ignoring Old Testament verses I find inconvenient. I truly am glad I'm not in a position where I would be required by the law to stone someone for a sin. (I can't explain to you why God chose this path, at least not in a way that would satisfy a nonbelliver.) All I can say is that that law (those laws) is (are) no longer applicable to me based upon the clear teachings of Jesus and other New Testament verses.

      December 14, 2011 at 4:25 pm |
    • HellBent

      So god is a moral relativist. Got it.

      December 14, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • o.k.

      @Huh? In the context of cherry picking verses, I don't understand your point. I will say that both the Old and New Testament make it clear that it is sin (if you define sin as acting contrary to God's will). What verse would you point to to say that I'm cherry picking?

      December 14, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • o.k.

      @Hellbent...based on what? His morality is the same–he wants us, however, to deal with the sins of others differently (i.e., marital unfaithfulness is still a sin, and He will judge it accordingly, but now I'm free (did you read Romans 7?) from the obligation to exact the punishment. Other areas of the law (dietary, etc.) were never a moral issue, and I think Fred did a pretty good job of identifying that above.

      December 14, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @o.k.

      Honest question. How do you know gods intentions so specifically? I mean, for instance, how do you know that using a computer isn't a sin, or flying in an airplane or any number of modern inventions in the last century, heck the last 5 centuries that isn't in the bible?

      December 14, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • o.k.

      @Chuckles...fair question, if not for the overuse of hyperbole. First, we have the Bible (which, admittedly, requires faith that IT is the word of God) to direct us. In many areas, its very specific about right or wrong (marital unfaithfulness, for instance). God has also given us the innate ability to know right from wrong–no one has to tell you that murder or theft is wrong– you know that it is. For those who chose to believe, we can also expect God to reveal to us (in very subtle ways–I'm not referring to direct communication) his Will in certain areas. Your example–use of a Computer can be for good or evil–it is neutral device. If God wanted us to reject technology, he could have said as much in the Bible. He didn't. If you find it against your conscience, then don't use your computer. I for one don't see it as a problem (or for that matter, flying on airplanes or taking on my cell phone or tying my shoes).

      December 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • o.k.

      @Chuckles...I would also add...the God I believe in is a just and fair and loving God. Accordingly, I don't believe there's going to be any "gotcha's" when we meet JHim. If a certain behavior, action, etc. is sin, He will make that known to us (either directly, i.e., the Bible, via our conscience or, as I indicated, in a more personal or subtle way). I don't believe we'll have the opportunity to say, "if I'd only known the truth!" because that dog just won't hunt.

      December 14, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • o.k.

      @huh? C'mon mate, I'm still waiting...what verse(s) are you relying upon to suggest I'm cherry picking with respect to "being gay is not a sin" issue? Inquiring minds want to know!

      December 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • Huh?

      "I will say that both the Old and New Testament make it clear that it is sin "

      Oh, let's see Romans you aren't putting into full context if you are only using part of it to condemn being gay a sin. That story is about using sex to worship a pagan god (read the verses before it), it has nothing to do with gays today. Corinthians they added the word homosexual to that verse. Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't about gays at all if you read Ezekiel, etc...etc..etc... LOL!

      December 14, 2011 at 6:07 pm |
    • Huh?

      "I would also add...the God I believe in is a just and fair and loving God."

      That's why he supposedly killed all of humanity except two, innocent men and women, animals, etc... Yeah, that is not just that is a monster.

      December 14, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
    • fred

      Huh
      There were 8 in Noah's family. You miss the most important teaching from God. God's loving nature protected and safeguarded Noah's family. That is the story of love. As far as the ungodly generation of Cain is concerned God was patient for a long time giving them chance to turn from their wickedness. Even in the end God "blotted " them out which could mean they never existed so what's your beef with this loving God.
      Even at the end when Jesus hung betwen two theives one criminal was welcomed into the kingdom for simply haveing kind thoughts and words. Jesus never said anyting about or to the other criminal who mocked Jesus onto his last breath.

      December 14, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • Huh?

      "You miss the most important teaching from God. God's loving nature protected and safeguarded Noah's family. That is the story of love. As far as the ungodly generation of Cain is concerned God was patient for a long time giving them chance to turn from their wickedness. Even in the end God "blotted " them out which could mean they never existed so what's your beef with this loving God."

      LMAO! That is such a load of crap fred. Based on what was written in the Bible, your god murdered everyone, the very thing it called a major sin. Nice try, your god is a monster.

      December 14, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • o.k.

      @huh...I'm honestly trying to respond, but my responses aren't posting–I'll try again later.

      December 14, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • Huh?

      It's the word filters, look for the words t.i.t c.u.m a.s.s...inside of other words, it stops them from posting.

      December 14, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • fred

      Huh
      Let's see the ungodly generation of Cain was filled with such wickedness that God relented having created man. Now, we are not told what that wickedness was but it was the most vial evil and began with murder of Cains own brother. Tell me Huh what would you do to people that were more evil than you ever imagined? Is it murder to stop a pack of say vampires from taking over all known future existence. If this evil trait (some hint they mated with fallen angels) is in the genes, a love lust for inflicting pain and suffering on innocent future generations is it murder to blot them out of existence?

      December 14, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
    • o.k.

      @huh...I've tried every which way and Sunday to post my response to no avail–we'll have to agree to disagree at this point and pick up the debate another time.

      December 14, 2011 at 7:55 pm |
    • fred

      ok
      break your post into parts and post it part 1, 2 etc.
      As Huh suggest t.i.t and c.u.m and s.e.x. are common block inside words. like Att-itude will fail and doc-ument will fail

      December 14, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
  7. HeavenSent

    Forgiveness will bring you happiness.

    Amen.

    December 13, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • Frank S.

      Maybe the thousands of dead/wounded US soldiers should forgive Bush/Cheyney/Rove/Rice/Fleicher/Rumsfeld for lying about WMDs. Oh, that's right, they never apologized, so the blood of heroes is still on their hands.

      December 14, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
  8. .......

    Sweet screen name above right? I'm awesome because I said so. I'm everything and the most important piece of shlt on this planet.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • Noel

      YOU are the Christmas poo?

      December 13, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • .......

      "Sweet screen name above right? I'm awesome because I said so. I'm everything and the most important piece of shlt on this planet."

      Hey stop stealing my screen name, I am GOD after all and stealing is a SIN! Now repent and give me twenty hail Marys!

      December 13, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • Noel

      You are NOT the Christmas poo? I am confused.

      December 13, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  9. Ungodly Discipline

    To "What have we become" and "LOL":

    I would have responded sooner but I have a responsible job helping others. I hate no one, including myself. I enjoy playing around on the blogs, sometimes I am serious and sometimes I am just a big goof. And sometimes people steal my name. Those are the worst people on blogs. Bad edicate. Shame on you. I am a Temporal Agnostic and enjoy batting the ball around with both believers and atheists’, although I certainly agree far more with atheists’. The believers are stuck in some kind of strange delusional time warp that I can only assume is a product of some combination of stupidity, ignorance and indoctrination. So if I come on the blogs for a little entertainment, I don't feel bad about it. Until any of you believers have anything intelligent to say you get what you deserve. And if you ever do win an argument, good for you and hearty well-done. I have not seen it yet though. Happy Holidays!!

    December 13, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • Ungodly Disciple

      I didn't steal your name!! I'm just one of your converts!!

      December 13, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Too little too late you chump.

      December 13, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
    • rachel creek

      You spelled etiquette wrong, genius.

      December 13, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
    • Ungodly Disciple

      Was a joke btw 🙂 That was not me posting as you wherever you are refering to 🙂 That would be douchy.

      December 13, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Thank you Rachel. It was very kind of you to point out my type-o and then pay me a compliment. Such a nice girl! Please continue to monitor my spelling as this is an excellent use of your time.

      December 13, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      To the person who called me "chump", you hurt me with your words.

      December 13, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Will you marry me ?

      December 13, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
  10. Bob

    fred's fairy tale god-ass-hole in the sky has been losing ground in the US, and that is fantastic news. From this website:

    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-09/living/us.religion.less.christian_1_american-religious-identification-survey-christian-nation-evangelical

    "America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.

    Seventy-five percent of Americans call themselves Christian, according to the American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. In 1990, the figure was 86 percent."

    fred, take your sicko Christian supersti-tions and your horrid bible, and shove them sideways up your aft end.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • .......

      Yayyy lets go celebrate, since America has clearly become so much more moral since then. Fookin idiot.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • tallulah13

      My favorite part was where that Tony Perkins guy said that he thinks more people will come back to the church because people do that in a bad economy. My question to him: Where have you been in the last 10 years when the economy was failing and people were still leaving the church?

      @.......

      Evangelical churches are bucking the trend and growing. Perhaps this is source of the lack of morality you complain about.

      December 14, 2011 at 10:56 am |
  11. Bob

    So fred, was it a goat that you sacrificed and burned today, or some other poor creature? You don't dare make your fairy tale ass-hole in the sky angry or he'll torture you forever.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:37 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Fred you stay away from my bunny. She is fluffy and cute and her favorite book is Watership Down.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
    • Alfred E Neuman

      Hasenfeffer.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Well Alfred we have to fatten her up a little first but....AHHHHHH what am a saying??

      December 13, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
  12. Ungodly Discipline

    Now having said all of that, even Ronald Reagan, the second stupidist president we have ever had, didn't want Dubya to run for a second term in office.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:31 pm |
    • William Demuth

      He was quite a divisive figure, that is for sure.

      I remember being in Fort Benning when Anwar Sadat was assasinated, and worrying that if Reagen was as crazy as I had felt, we had just begun a downward spiral in the Middle East that would lead us to Armageddeon.

      What disturbed me the most was the impression he might find that desirable.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Yup.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Reagan died in 2004, was out of the public eye for years due to Alzheimers and apparently had long since failed to recognize even his family. I doubt he had ANY thoughts about Dubya at all.

      December 13, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Sorry John, I meant Ron Reagan.

      December 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Oh, okay!

      December 13, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
  13. Ungodly Discipline

    @Reagan80

    "Poor dear," remarked British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, his closest international ally, "there's nothing between his ears." As for a "moral man," Reagan's morality included union busting–beginning with his dismissal of striking air traffic controllers in 1981–an unprecedented war on the poor, opposition to civil rights and support for apartheid South Africa. The "moral" Reagan trained and supported terrorists, including the Nicaraguan contras ("the moral equal of our Founding Fathers") who killed over 30,000 people, and Islamic rad-icals in Afghanistan who later formed the al-Qaeda network.

    Reagan was also a liar. In November 1986, he publicly denied that his administration had been illegally selling arms to Iran and using the proceeds to fund the contras. One week later he was forced to retract this statement, but denied that the sale was part of a deal to free U.S. hostages. The following year, Reagan admitted that there had been an arms-for-hostages deal, but denied he knew anything about it.

    Good riddance.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
  14. Ungodly Discipline

    @Reagan80

    Reagan's economic policies were a disaster for working-cla ss Americans. Reagan presided over the worst recession since the 1930s, and economic growth in the 1980s was lower than in the 1970s, despite the stimulus of military Keynesian policies, which created ma ssive federal budget deficits and tripled the federal debt. By the end of the decade, real wages were down and the poverty rate had increased by 20 percent.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  15. Ungodly Discipline

    @Reagan80

    Daughter Patti wrote, "I first remember my mother hitting me when I was eight. It escalated as I got older and became a weekly, sometimes daily, event."

    Nancy Reagan directed the Department of Agriculture to cla ssify ketchup as a vegetable in September 1981 in an attempt to slash $1.5 billion from the federal school lunch program.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  16. Ungodly Discipline

    @Reagan80

    Reagan refused to mention A I D S publicly for six years, under-funded federal programs dealing with the disease and, according to his authorized biography, said, "Maybe the Lord brought down this plague," because "illicit s e x is against the Ten Commandments."

    December 13, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
  17. Ungodly Discipline

    @Reagan80

    Ronald Reagan was a venal and vicious man, who was happy to slash workers' wages, see families thrown onto the street, support sa-dis-tic death squads and bomb other countries, if this was in the interests of the American ruling cla-ss.

    December 13, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
  18. Wachetauf

    Two sentiments:

    1. The matter of Mr. Bush's forgiveness of this man should have remained a private matter for the two of them, and/or their God, for them to justify between themselves.

    2. God seems to have become the one on whom all responsibility is shouldered for managing the relations among men. If we take God out of the equation might not the responsibility for the management of our affairs becomes less confusing and problematic? If we negotiate without reference to God, or a god, must we then be required to justify our ruminations and actions on their own merit? Attained through a process of reasoned deliberation and compromise? Without the fear of offending some imagined or assumed authority? Whose presence may be known (or assumed) by only a very few (or more than a few, if you wish) from whom we may have not yet "heard"?

    December 13, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
  19. Liberal Conservative........Conservative Liberal

    Wow aII you people are absolute morons. Never in my life have I seen so many ignorant comments. I feel bad for you all, life must be really tough for you if that's what you really think and your behavior in real life is at all similar. Although I doubt many of you say this stuff in real life because you're the biggest cowards of them all

    What nobody has anything to say? What you don't know how to respond when you're not trolling? You all are pathetic.

    December 13, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
    • HellBent

      Pot? Or kettle?

      December 13, 2011 at 3:55 pm |
    • Liberal Conservative........Conservative Liberal

      @hellbent – Thanks for proving my exact point clown.

      December 13, 2011 at 3:59 pm |
    • .....

      Kettle meet pot, pot meet kettle.

      The log in your eye is making you blind.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
    • HellBent

      @LC ... CL

      I didn't think you'd get it. Guess I was right. Hypocrite.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Many of us have spoken out publicly for many years.

      I do find it ironic that you bemoan those hiding behind the annonimity of the internet, yet you use a screen name.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:30 pm |
  20. Snow

    No matter whether they mean it or not, we see people who committed every sort of crime be forgiven just because they "asked god" for forgiveness.. But say one word against the church and the holy moly dude – and you burn in hell forever.. Equal justice, y'all..

    December 13, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
    • fred

      Hey, Jesus said "raca" to the leaders of the temple and told the 7 main churches of where they are off base in 55AD. Jesus spoke the truth so if you a truthful complaint agianst the church you will not become the flame of satan

      December 13, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • Wizz

      Just ignore fred. He is trolling for lulz and is dumber than a box of rocks. Don't waste your time. You can't fix his brand of stupid.

      December 13, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
    • fred

      Hey Wizz it's a bag of hammers

      December 13, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Ah, the Christian loop hole!

      Hitler, Manson, they can all go to heaven if they just repent, and give a charlatan a nice fat check.

      December 13, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
    • Ungodly Disciple

      @fred – "Jesus said "raca" to the leaders of the temple and told the 7 main churches of where they are off base in 55AD. " Did he now? Let's do some math – Christ is born supposedly around year 1 AD and is then killed around 33 AD and is then resurected 3 days later, but is then whisked away to heaven never to be seen again other than in dreams or visions. When did he say "raca" to the leaders again? 20 years after his death?

      @W D – Where do you think all that Nazi gold went? Hitlers soul was not cheap to squeeze through the Vatican, er, Heavens Gate...

      December 13, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • Snow

      Hilarious exchange..

      December 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Nicely done Disciple. Salute. But quit being smarter than me it is embarrassing. lol

      December 13, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • fred

      Ungodly
      Raca was at the temple. The 7 churches was in Revelation while with John.

      December 13, 2011 at 7:32 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      fred, you are the mostest smartest bag of hammers ever!

      December 13, 2011 at 7:56 pm |
    • fred

      Thank you ! I may just savor that for a while......ok.........yeah...something godly about that disciplined comment. The Bible says discipine is a good thing and you proved it right.

      December 13, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • hippypoet

      cs, why do you waste so much time with fred? obviuosly hes not going to learn ever

      December 13, 2011 at 9:24 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      HP, I was dropped on my head as a child and have empathy for the retarded. What can I say.

      December 13, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      HP, I am so in the mood for some whisky. I wish we could share some Glenfiddich. I would buy!!

      December 13, 2011 at 9:35 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Well, well, well. I was right all along about who you were and denied to be. Lying is a sin.

      Proverbs 12:22, "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight."

      Amen.

      December 13, 2011 at 11:19 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.