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December 19th, 2011
12:08 PM ET

Christianity goes global as world's largest religion

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

(CNN) - Christians are by far the largest religious group on the planet, and the religion has gone truly global over the past century, according to a new report out Monday, which finds some of the world's biggest Christian communities in surprising places.

Europe was the clear center of world Christianity one hundred years ago, but today the Americas are home to more than a third of all Christians. In fact, the United States has the world's largest Christian population, of more than 247 million, followed by Brazil and Mexico.

China also appears on the list of top 10 largest Christian populations - with an estimated 67 million Christians, it has more followers of the faith than any western European country.

There are nearly 2.2 billion Christians around the world, making up about one-third of the world's population - the same percentage as a century ago, according to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Islam is the world's second largest religion, with about 1.6 billion followers worldwide, the Washington-based organization calculates. That's just under one-quarter of the estimated 2010 world population of 6.9 billion.

Sub-Saharan Africa has seen the biggest explosion in its Christian population in the past century, going from about 9 million Christians in 1910 to about 516 million today - nearly a quarter of all the world's Christians. Three of the world's ten largest Christian populations are in Africa: Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Ethiopia.

The study, "Global Christianity," is based on demographic and opinion data from 232 countries and territories. It's part of the Pew-Templeton Global Religious Futures Project, which has also included reports on the current and projected number of Muslims in the world.

It does not measure practice or belief, merely counting as Christian anyone who says they are.

The report calculates that half the world's Christians are Catholic, 37% are Protestants, and 12% are Orthodox. The remaining 1 percent belong to other traditions such as Mormonism.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Belief • Christianity

soundoff (2,648 Responses)
  1. JohnQuest

    Abinadi, What points would you like to discuss (debate)? We can converse about any of the defunct arguments in favor of a deity, take you best shot. Please be prepared for a lively but civil exchange of idea. (no name calling).

    December 20, 2011 at 9:08 am |
  2. Rod in Texas

    With this information, we also learn the world's largest group of hypocrites, the world's largest group of brainwashed people, and the world's largest group of discriminators. Wow, four facts from just one scientific study.

    December 20, 2011 at 9:08 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Of course it invalidates Genesis. Genesis says man was created whole, fully human, as were all other creatures on Earth. Not evolving from earlier forms. Evolution describes mankind as an animal, no different from any other lifeform, that progressed from simpler to more complex structure. Even the increase in complexity doesn't require divine guidance as those forms that didn't have adequate adaptations went extinct. It really is a roll of the dice as proven by the fact that 99% of all things that ever lived are extinct. Which if you accept that God had a hand in it then you also have to accept that he fails most of the time.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Oops...that should have gone into the post below. Bugger this blog for not letting you push reply more than once.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:43 am |
  3. Abinadi

    I would like to take on the atheists, but CNN deletes everything I try to say while they print every crude, profane, lying statement the atheists want to put up. Seems pretty one sided. I wonder why?

    December 20, 2011 at 8:47 am |
    • HotairAce

      Just as there are no gods, there are no live moderators at CNN. It's just a lousy piece of sofware and you are simply too stupid to figure out how to deal with it.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • captain america

      As long as stupid came up, note that hotair is a stupid, butt in, know it all canadian, who is held in extremely low regard by loyal, intelligent Americans everywhere. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 8:58 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Learn to edit your posts to avoid banned words. EG: S-p-i-c-e is not allowed because it contains the derogatory s-p-i-c or c-u-m- in circ-u-m-stance. Someone will again post a list of banned words. We invite your arguments.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:58 am |
    • Abinadi

      Yes, Hotair. That is the only argument that you people seem to have – that you are all so extremely, wonderfully intelligent and the rest of us are just stupid twits when, in fact, the opposite is true. You people have never added one intelligent remark that I can see. I read your great Hitchens most memorable quotes and I could not see a single remarkable thing there.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:59 am |
    • Abinadi

      It appears to me that the great contributions to mankinds advancement have all been made by believers i.e. Einstein, Isaac Newton, Galileo, even Charles Darwin was a devout Christian. Maybe the atheists would like to help out with an example, but I can't think of a single solid contribution an atheist has made.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:05 am |
    • LinCA

      @Abinadi

      You said, "I would like to take on the atheists, but CNN deletes everything I try to say while they print every crude, profane, lying statement the atheists want to put up. Seems pretty one sided. I wonder why?"

      HotairAce is right, nobody at CNN is reading your posts. There are no human censors. CNN uses automated censoring that looks for words, or fragments of words, that are considered offensive. My guess is that your post had had a forbidden word in it. Posts that contain too many URLs will also get rejected.

      Repeat posts, even those that were previously censored and not displayed, will show a message stating that you posted it before.

      The following words or word fragments will get your post censored (list is incomplete):
      arse
      bastard
      bitch
      cock
      coon
      cum
      cunt
      douche
      effing
      fag
      ftw
      fuck
      homo
      horny
      jackass
      jap
      jism
      kinky
      kooch
      nipple
      orgy
      pis
      porn
      poo
      prick
      rape
      sex
      shit
      slut
      snatch
      spic
      tit
      twat
      vag
      whore
      wtf

      To circumvent the filters you can break up the words by putting an extra character in, like: consti.tution (breaking the oh so naughty "tit").

      December 20, 2011 at 9:06 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Well we could say exactly the same thing for every remark posted by Christians who believe the Bible is worth the paper it's printed on. Stick to any single point you wish to debate and we'll go from there.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:06 am |
    • Abinadi

      Even the contributions that the communists made were mostly stolen from the very Christian USA scientists. Inspiration, after all, comes from God.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • HotairAce

      Abinadi, your faith blinds you to the truths (such as no believer has ever shown that any god exists or that The Babble is the inerrant word of some god) that many have written here. But I do look forward to a novel proof of either. Go for it!!

      December 20, 2011 at 9:11 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      "It appears to me that the great contributions to mankinds advancement have all been made by believers i.e. Einstein, Isaac Newton, Galileo, even Charles Darwin was a devout Christian. Maybe the atheists would like to help out with an example, but I can't think of a single solid contribution an atheist has made."

      Most of those were alive during times when to challenge the church was to invite disaster. But Einstein was a deist, not Christian, Galileo was imprisoned as a heretic and Darwin was completely dismayed at coming to the realization that man had evolved and how his devout wife would react to his blasphemous thoughts.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:14 am |
    • HotairAce

      Abinadi, if the best you can do is repeat claims about what great scientists believed about imaginary beings then you should quit now. Go read a few (non-biased) biographies and you will learn that Einstein did not believe in a personal god. You will also learn that mant scientists professed a belief in some god because to do otherwise could literally be deadly, while at the same time engaging in scientific research completely at odds with the teachings of the cult they were born into.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:19 am |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      @Abinadi – not to bright are you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

      December 20, 2011 at 9:21 am |
    • Chuckles

      ....So everyone is going to ignore the fact that Abinadi wants to claim Darwin as a believer AND as a great scientist who advanced science, that was completely against church doctrine and invalidates genesis. Call me crazy, but if I were a believer that last thing I would want to do is argue that one of the churches biggest critics and has certainly since sparked a massive debate would be on their team..... but that's just me.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:21 am |
    • Abinadi

      Sorry, Chuckles, your logic is lost on me. I am a Christian who actually believes in evolution and, like Darwin, I don't believe evolution invalidates Genesis at all. In fact, it validates it. All Genesis did was point out that God made the universe. He gave us all a brain and expects us to figure out how he did it and evolution was one of the processes that he put in motion.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:28 am |
    • Chuckles

      @Abinadi

      That's adorable, really..... just precious. Ever hear of doublethink?

      December 20, 2011 at 9:30 am |
    • HotairAce

      So in a little less than a hour, Abinadi, the new champion of myths, is what, zero for 5 or 6? I anticipate a Newt like comeback any moment...

      December 20, 2011 at 9:43 am |
  4. Reality

    o http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
    o
    Religion............................ Adherents

    Christianity.......................... 2.1 billion

    Islam ...................................1.5 billion

    Irreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion

    Hinduism 900 million
    Chinese traditional religion 394 million
    Buddhism 376 million
    Animist religions 300 million
    African traditional/diasporic religions 100 million
    Sikhism 23 million
    Juche 19 million
    Spiritism 15 million
    Judaism 14 million
    Baha'i 7 million
    Jainism 4.2 million
    Shinto 4 million
    Cao Dai 4 million
    Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
    Tenrikyo 2 million
    Neo-Paganism 1 million
    Unitarian Universalism 800,000
    Rastafari Movement 600,000

    Please note who is in third place:

    December 20, 2011 at 8:26 am |
    • .........

      please note hit report abuse on all reality bull sh it

      December 20, 2011 at 8:33 am |
  5. TruthPrevails

    I like an article where it says 'Worldwide'...it refers to every country in the world and not just the USA...CNN provided an opportunity here to prove that they are not biased or ignorant of how belief affects everyone. This article has brought out the 'no true scotsman fallacy' on many fronts and not one of them seems to agree with the other...how sad!! They then wonder why it is that we question their mental stability in believing the stuff they have been lead to think as being accurate. Maybe when they agree on which god we should be following and provide the scientific date to back their claims for said god, we will finally agree with them.

    December 20, 2011 at 8:11 am |
    • captain america

      If there were no canadians on these blogs the level of intelligent, relevant conversation would double if not triple. canadian opinion is useless to us, they have nothing to offer the American people. They have screwed up their own country with their socialist ideas and apparently have trouble recognizing that the rest of the world simply do not think of them as leaders. canadian opinions remain the dog waste on these blogs sidewalks, foul smelling,untended and to be avoided lest stepped in.There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 8:21 am |
  6. Debra Martinez

    Wow..... Alot of Christians.. I am a servant of the Most High God Jehovah.. The God of Isreal.. I am shock .. Wen I see that there are more Chistian people .. Someone has to wonder is that number right.. As we live in a world that has so much discrimainaion and ungodly devotion .. Lovers of pleasure , lovers of themselvers but alergic to Jehovah God requiresments..Someonw has to wonder if you only go to service once a week that doesn't make you a christian .. What makes you a christian is are you walking with God or away from God.. I am walking with the true God and He is walking with me cause it is written.. Come Follow me....

    December 20, 2011 at 7:17 am |
    • rick

      The true god is whatever is true to the individual.

      December 20, 2011 at 7:27 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      At least christards don't come knocking on my door trying to convert or stand on a corner handing out fictional papers based on their beliefs or believe they are the ones who will be chosen to remain on earth. I love JW's,-we invite you in and the nscare you off with reality...they never come back once they hear that we are Atheists who think they're full of crap and that they have been far too brainwashed by their cult.

      December 20, 2011 at 7:41 am |
    • captain america

      We do not need to hear what goes on in canada. It is none of our business, ours is none of yours. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 7:47 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      I see our favorite troll is back and has not located its bridge yet (must be the alzheimers)...run little troll run!

      December 20, 2011 at 8:17 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Every Christian holds a concept of God in their head that exactly matches their positions on, right and wrong, how we can came to be here and where we go after we die. Coincidence? Do any of them hold beliefs that differ with the wishes of their own personal God? Is there even one single thing where they disagree with their God? Not from what I've seen.

      Well sure they mostly refer to the Bible as an instruction guide but most treat it more like a cook book. Add a little seasoning here...remove a little water there. But in the end each has constructed their God to reflect their own internal concept. That's why there are over 30,000 different sects all claiming that they have it right while the others are 'not true Christians'.

      So again if we refer to the above statement where each is in complete agreement with the wishes of their God, but each has a different idea of what God wishes, the problem and the answer become obvious. It's all in your head.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:43 am |
    • captain america

      Every canadian holds in their head the idea that someone, somewhere wants to hear their opinion. Nothing could be farther from the truth. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 8:46 am |
    • Keith

      captain america, Amen.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:25 am |
    • claybigsby

      "Someonw has to wonder if you only go to service once a week that doesn't make you a christian"

      someone has to wonder how you passed 1st grade.

      December 20, 2011 at 10:00 am |
    • Debra Martinez

      Rick.. There is only One True God.... This world has there image about what is right and wrong.. You quoted that its up to the invidisual .. Yes it is but it is also a judment upon you that you will be judge in the eyes of GOD..
      That why its up to the invidual.. Because the Church in OUr Country donot enforce what the Bible Teaches.. Its provides what you want to hear and that is God LOves you, God Blesses you.. Well Guess my friend true witnesses walk with God and walk in the Name Of The FAther and Son... They dont walk with Satan and his friends or disrespect The BLood of Christ .. I walk In truth and even tho i am not made perfect i was taught to Love and praise him for what I have not .. I have a relatioship that is so warm and complete and I choose to be walking with the Prince of Peace.. I love what (Gal: 2-19,20)
      Go seek that scripture and pray on it with the Glory Of the True God.. Seek Him and you will find Him.. And He is the Almighty...God... Jesus stated no one come to the Father only Thru Him and He is right... John 14:6. Jesus said :I am the way , and the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father except through me.. If you men know me you would know the Father also: from thi moment on You know him and have seen him"
      Remember Satan Is a god .. and since our world lyies in his hands of the wicket one we are doomed to feel its up to the invidisual .. For the Father of mercy have mercy on your soul .. Go seek the Father in his name and he will admonish you.. I pray for you.. In his Name we ask ....amen...

      December 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm |
    • Debra Martinez

      Claybigsby.. Some one has to wonder of course... Do see how this world is .. Did you see the numbers.. It is amazing .What more amazing is How people are living.. Do think looking at those numbers are right when you know that it is written that the road leading off into life and few are the ones finding it...(Matt 7:14) read it yourself .. and look at the numbers and see where are you at.. what number are you and see if you are at 1st grade passing..

      December 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
  7. pete

    The though of people basing the beliefs on the Bible makes me sick to the stomach. I hate religion, I wish I could eradicate from this world.

    December 20, 2011 at 6:29 am |
    • DICK RAMER

      GO TAKE A GOOD SWIM IN THE OCEAN OR REALLY STUDY THE HEAVENLIES. TRUE STUDY OF A ROSE OR A SMILE OF CHILD. REAL TRUTH WILL NEVER FIT INSIDE A BOX.

      December 20, 2011 at 7:04 am |
    • just sayin

      We all hope you eradicate from this world also. Keep on thinking and writing as you are and you will get your wish. You will be gone at an early age in the worst possible way, like Hitchens.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:51 am |
  8. A Hitchens question

    Show me one moral act undertaken by a religious person that could not have been done by someone who doesn't believe in God.

    December 20, 2011 at 4:45 am |
    • uwubanmwen Isi

      when it come to Christianity there is no comparison, what makes a man a christian is not good work or morality but your acceptance of Jesus Christ the son of God. God qualification is different from man's qualification

      December 20, 2011 at 6:38 am |
    • rick

      Man wrote "God's qualification"

      December 20, 2011 at 7:29 am |
    • Seriously

      "Show me one moral act undertaken by a religious person that could not have been done by someone who doesn't believe in God."

      That is what Christians deny to themselves because they believe in order to be moral you have to believe in their cult. They will condemn the whole based on the actions of a few, just read George and HeavenSent comments.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:26 am |
    • claybigsby

      "what makes a man a christian is not good work or morality but your acceptance of Jesus Christ the son of God"

      LOL so if a man is a mass murderer but accepts Jesus Christ as his savior, he is a good Christian? See how F-ed up that is?

      December 20, 2011 at 10:04 am |
  9. Smythe

    In the beginning there was nothing and god said “LET THERE BE LIGHT”!!

    And there was still nothing.....but at least you could see it better....

    What a clever chap. And where is he?
    Never likes to do anything real anymore since he kept screwing up, I see.

    At least he knew when to quit.
    Some people just like going on about stuff without realizing they've gone right off the deep end.

    And their god isn't around to show he exists, so I guess we're on our own like we always were. Who needs a bunch of hallucinating religious nuts?

    Not me. I'd rather fix real world problems than mumble a mantra. Get more done that way, you see.
    Quite handy to have a bit of extra time to get things done. And no need for OCD paranoid narcissistic nosey spirits thank you.

    December 20, 2011 at 3:01 am |
  10. RightTurnClyde

    The Lord is my Shepherd;
    I shall not want.
    He maketh me to lie down
    In green pastures;
    He leadeth me
    Beside the still waters;
    He restoreth my soul;
    He leadeth me in the paths
    Of righteousness for His Name's sake.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley
    Of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil;
    For Thou art with me;
    Thy rod and Thy staff
    They comfort me.

    Thou preparest a table before me
    In the presence of mine enemies;
    Thou anointest my head with oil;
    My cup runneth over.

    Surely goodness and mercy shall
    Follow me all the days of my life;
    And I will dwell in the house
    Of the Lord for ever.

    December 20, 2011 at 2:25 am |
    • HellBent

      He's making a list
      And checking it twice
      Gonna find out if you're naughty or nice
      Santa Claus is coming to town!

      December 20, 2011 at 2:31 am |
    • So Jeerus today!

      Jeerus! Jeerus is coming! Lets all crap our hands for Jeerus!

      December 20, 2011 at 2:43 am |
  11. Cocopuf

    If there were enough people who would turn against God, then God would have to resign. LOL in derision.

    December 20, 2011 at 1:55 am |
    • uwubanmwen Isi

      Even though man deny God,God is God he cannot deny himself, before man God was and even after man has gone he will still be God. refusing God is refusing life a man that refuses God is died for God is life

      December 20, 2011 at 7:08 am |
    • rick

      "Even though man deny God,God is God he cannot deny himself, before man God was and even after man has gone he will still be God. refusing God is refusing life a man that refuses God is died for God is life"

      Huh?

      No one can deny themselves.

      December 20, 2011 at 7:33 am |
    • claybigsby

      "Even though man deny God,God is God he cannot deny himself,"

      I thought god was all powerful? Surely he would be able to "deny himself"

      December 20, 2011 at 10:06 am |
  12. Bobs Friend

    Gnight all you sinners & Saints....
    “The Lord bless you
    and keep you;
    25the Lord make his face shine upon you
    and be gracious to you;
    26the Lord turn his face toward you
    and give you peace.”’

    Amen

    December 20, 2011 at 1:38 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      To tell you the truth I'd rather burn.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:52 am |
    • Cocopuf

      To GodofLunaticsCreation:- There are a lot more of you out there. As the old saying goes: So, let it be said, so, let it be done. 🙂

      December 20, 2011 at 2:04 am |
    • Huh?

      I thought you said you never used any other handles, or did you lie again.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:30 am |
    • Laer

      Hosea 13:16
      Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

      That's some blessin' and keepin'!

      December 20, 2011 at 8:50 am |
  13. Bobs Friend

    @ Richard :
    http://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Puzzling_Passages/BurningCoals.html
    The concept has historical Hebraic roots.

    December 20, 2011 at 12:59 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      As I said, you guys have been at the game long enuf to recognize where all the atrocities and petty meannesses may be found in the Big Book of Horrors and to have come up with rationalizations for them; this is clearly no exception. But notice that even the rationalization contains this bit of spite: "Likewise, the passage about coals is about the emotional discomfort an enemy will feel when you waken his conscience about his conduct toward you." Again, both the original source and the apologetic for it COULD have come up with a metaphor about kindness for its own sake — which is what we might expect if it had truly been inspired by an altruistic deity — but instead it chose one that would cause the enemy "emotional discomfort" rather than a feeling of grat¡tude and forgiveness.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:09 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      @ Richard:
      Yes, but the END purpose is not to inflict discomfort, but sometimes emotional/moral discomfort moves people toward God. Any moral transition involves some initial emotional discomfort. People are resistant to admitting they are wrong; the moment of realization is painful.
      But it is a good pain, a cleansing pain. A pain for a purpose.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:30 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Hebrew 12:7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. 9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! 10Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. 11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:31 am |
    • HellBent

      "Any moral transition involves some initial emotional discomfort. People are resistant to admitting they are wrong; the moment of realization is painful.
      But it is a good pain, a cleansing pain. A pain for a purpose."

      This adequately describes my transition to atheism.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:35 am |
  14. Belieber

    Interesting. No actually you are correct. I was teasing. I cannot see why in hell that sequence would be on the blocked, (moderated), string list. But think HTML programming tricks. You can say whatever the fuck you want. There are no moderators. 8)

    December 20, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      Shhhh. Don't tell the Christians. They think there's a BIG moderator.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:53 am |
    • Cocopuf

      It is most likely your overly foul language that repulses the moderators, and others too. It akso reflects on your intelligence by the way you say things.

      December 20, 2011 at 2:20 am |
    • Belieber

      Well, as I proved, (ie evidence...get it..) there are no moderators, and no Big Moderator. You as'sume your irrational conclusions are the only ones there are. In fact they have nothing to do with reality. They make you happy, and repeating your reasoning to yourself makes you comfy and all warm, and fuzzy, and superior. If fact, you are wrong.

      December 20, 2011 at 7:19 am |
  15. Sir Issac Charles Squared

    90% of comments on this board are from complete trolls who lack any sort of common knowledge. They think they know everything and berate others when they disagree. The funny thing is they are the actuals fools who aren't educated and their arguments are bogus. They say trite phrases over and over as their proof yet have no interest in digging deeper.

    Many of you are narcissists and just plain d!cks. I've met many people like you before since they are unfortunately abundant in my generation. Guess what:

    NOBODY LIKES YOU, OPEN YOUR EYES, YOU'RE A MISERABLE PERSON BOTH ONLINE AND REAL LIFE.

    You all truly bring nothing to society other than self pity, expectations of undeserved greatness, and misery to those you encounter. You are everything each of you b!tch about and YOU are what's wrong with society whether you believe it or not.

    December 20, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Arthur

      Something tells me this post is directed at Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son. And it's rather fitting indeed.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • HellBent

      Does anyone know if the distinguished Sir Isaac is an atheist ranting at Christians, a Christian ranting at atheists, or just looking in the mirror?

      December 20, 2011 at 12:42 am |
    • Answer

      What does this tell us about the person who wrote it out to highlight about others?

      The writer does not want to include himself about what he wrote. So it says something – "I will criticize you."

      December 20, 2011 at 12:43 am |
    • Sir Issac Charles Squared

      @Hellbent

      I'm just someone who's come across many of the people I described and who frequent these board and I know how sad you all truly are in your little bubble. I'd feel bad if it wasn't that at the heart of it you're just a selfish POS who thinks the world revolves around them.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:48 am |
    • Cocopuf

      ... and to summarize what you've said above is that the unbelievers in our creator God are like chaff blowing aimlessly in the wind, and eventually fall down. 🙂

      December 20, 2011 at 2:15 am |
    • Hamster12

      Very well said, Sir Issac. I entirely agree – pathetic, ignorant, failures.

      December 20, 2011 at 2:57 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      Wow, arrogance and hypocrisy rolled in to one. Pot meet kettle!

      December 20, 2011 at 7:45 am |
    • captain america

      Truthprevails is a canadian who should keep their unneeded responses out of our discussions. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 7:49 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @CA: Canadian and proud. And how are you today my favorite troll? Hope you're enjoying this beautiful holiday season!
      Did you happen to notice that the article said 'worldwide'...the USA is not the world...sorry to disappoint you.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:19 am |
    • captain america

      The USA is the world and third world opinions are neither needed or welcomed by us. No canadian ever has any instruction for an American that would be considered useful. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 8:27 am |
    • just sayin

      To be proud of being a Canadian would be like I'm proud of the dump I took this morning.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:28 am |
    • Alex Trebeck

      Where do these pushy Canadians get off?

      December 20, 2011 at 8:30 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @just sayin: really? look in your own backyard recently? our country still has its full credit rating you ignorant slob!!! You haters of Canadian's are the most ignorant people out here...your closest neighbors and your only hope of staying above water.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:36 am |
    • captain america

      It does not take long until the anti American nature of the canadian shines through.The canadian wants the American to look at them as equals, but the canadian does not see you that way. Deep down they fear Americans because we are nicer than them. There's your sign

      December 20, 2011 at 8:44 am |
  16. Reality

    “John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident (the randomness) of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

    The Situation Today
    Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed. “ J. Somerville

    It is very disturbing that religious narrow- mindedness, intolerance, violence and hatred continues unabated due to randomness of birth. Maybe, just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.
    ----------------------------------------------------–

    December 20, 2011 at 12:28 am |
    • Cocopuf

      There is no such thing as random chance or accident (period) – If you think that you came from a primordial soup of some sort millions of years ago by pure chance or even an accident ... fine. But don't knock the existence of an intelligent creator that crated us all or you may, at the end, be dead wrong.

      December 20, 2011 at 2:29 am |
    • Reality

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen

      Some of the references used to prepare the update:

      o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
      2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
      – a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
      30-60 CE Passion Narrative
      40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
      50-60 1 Thessalonians
      50-60 Philippians
      50-60 Galatians
      50-60 1 Corinthians
      50-60 2 Corinthians
      50-60 Romans
      50-60 Philemon
      50-80 Colossians
      50-90 Signs Gospel
      50-95 Book of Hebrews
      50-120 Didache
      50-140 Gospel of Thomas
      50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
      50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
      65-80 Gospel of Mark
      70-100 Epistle of James
      70-120 Egerton Gospel
      70-160 Gospel of Peter
      70-160 Secret Mark
      70-200 Fayyum Fragment
      70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
      73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
      80-100 2 Thessalonians
      80-100 Ephesians
      80-100 Gospel of Matthew
      80-110 1 Peter
      80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
      80-130 Gospel of Luke
      80-130 Acts of the Apostles
      80-140 1 Clement
      80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
      80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
      80-250 Christian Sibyllines
      90-95 Apocalypse of John
      90-120 Gospel of John
      90-120 1 John
      90-120 2 John
      90-120 3 John
      90-120 Epistle of Jude
      93 Flavius Josephus
      100-150 1 Timothy
      100-150 2 Timothy
      100-150 T-itus
      100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
      100-150 Secret Book of James
      100-150 Preaching of Peter
      100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
      100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
      100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
      100-160 2 Peter

      3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
      – "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
      4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
      5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
      7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
      8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
      joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
      9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.

      December 20, 2011 at 8:21 am |
    • .........

      Hit report abuse as often as possible to end reality bull sh it

      December 20, 2011 at 8:23 am |
  17. Bobs Friend

    This is n interesting article for Atheists and Christians alike:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=379225

    Laws against "Bashing" religion? Sounds a lot like censorship to me... bye bye Freedom of speech!

    December 20, 2011 at 12:22 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Sounds like Islam.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:23 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Thanks to Christians we can't say Godd@mn on T.V or this forum, among other things.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:28 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      The islamic terrorists are an example of a people who actually follow their bible. If Christians followed theirs they would be thrown in jail or the looney bin.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:30 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      There's a movement afoot in one of the large multi-national organizations (I think one of the branches of the UN but am not sure) to treat blasphemy as "hate speech" and therefore OK to criminalize if a nation so desires. I believe this is at the behest of Muslims in those countries, but there's little doubt that other religionists would gladly sign on to this abridgment of free speech if they thot they could use it to stifle their critics.
       
      The worrisome thing is that, like the World Trade Organization, once the US signs on to a treaty, it becomes part of the supreme law of the land and trumps ordinary laws at either the federal or state levels. It's not clear whether it would also trump the Bill of Rights, but frankly I hope we never have to put it to the test. I further hope that lots of other nations stand up for free speech whenever this question arises in any jurisdiction they have influence over.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:32 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      That would cause a war in the U.S if it was allowed to happen.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:42 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Unfortunately from a historical perspective, freedom of speech is the exception rather than the rule. So I fully expect, if not in my lifetime, in my children's lifetime, whatever power-grabbing group rules Washington (whether it be "Christians", Atheists, or Zulus) will out law the speech of those opposed.
      Even now atheists (ACLU) can't bear to hear a valedictorian tell his graduating class that his prime motivator for excellence is Jesus Christ. So much for "Civil Liberties"
      As for Christians, Jesus said: "My kingdom is not of this world" People have to come to God of their own accord: using the force of law create false converts: The "Letter, being, the "Letter of the Law":

      2 Corin3:5" Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:49 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      No self respecting atheist would outlaw free speech.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:53 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Your friends at the ACLU are working day & night to shutdown any public religious proclamation that they can get away with. I think their next stage of attack will be public sidewalks. After all, sidewalks are owned by the government, and religious speech on sidewalks may be misconstrued to mean that the government is promoting that particular religion. Or public parks for example.. Should public parks be used for Easter egg hunts???

      December 20, 2011 at 1:24 am |
    • HellBent

      @Bobs friend – that you think the ACLU are all atheists only reveals your own bias. The ACLU has a long tradition of defending anyone who's civil rights have been suppressed – including religious organizations and insti.tutions. Here's a list of such cases: http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression

      December 20, 2011 at 1:27 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      I don't have to repeat myself do I? We do know for a fact that Christians have a long history of being the enemy of free speech.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:50 am |
  18. Belieber

    for wondeful us

    December 20, 2011 at 12:21 am |
    • Belieber

      for wonderful us

      December 20, 2011 at 12:22 am |
    • Belieber

      oh, oh..... it's a miracle.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:24 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      Thanks for helping with the test. It's driving me nuts. Sometimes the WF word triggers the nannybot, sometimes it doesn't, and I have no idea when or why it's going to occur.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:27 am |
    • Belieber

      wonderful

      December 20, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Belieber

      Woops. Forgot the Reply button.
      Interesting. No actually you are correct. I was teasing. I cannot see why in hell that sequence would be on the blocked, (moderated), string list. But think HTML programming tricks. You can say whatever the fuck you want. There are no moderators. 8)

      December 20, 2011 at 12:41 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      Ah, Belieber, you are my master. I confess that I know zero HTML tricks beyond making stuff boldface or italic. And even those are usually too much trouble. But congratulations for having subverted CNN's idiot nannybot!

      December 20, 2011 at 12:48 am |
    • LinCA

      @RichardSRussell

      Do you remember your post from July 4, 2011 at 6:19 pm, where you said, "More research results: The CNN nannybot also gags on a r s e n a l."?

      That post set off a thread in which the method that Belieber is referring to, was revealed. If you keep track of what you post on this comment board, you should be able to find it.

      December 20, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
  19. b4bigbang

    Answer

    If you're running a mobile – chances are you have to set your incoming scripts to CNN as "safe".. there are also various other settings relating to browsers and add-ins if you are using them. They are basically under various security settings – learn to deactivate the ones that screen CNN wordpress or html scripts.

    I wish it was that simple. No mobile, actually im posting from my work computer. It's a high-security facility and i cant do hardly anything on this pc, they've got it totally locked down and i dont have admin rights....

    December 20, 2011 at 12:13 am |
    • b4bigbang

      and again im sorry i had to use the no-reply, but here im again using the reply button from another of my own posts....

      December 20, 2011 at 12:14 am |
    • Test

      b4... now, use that *same* Reply button to make it show up here...

      (December 20, 2011 at 12:13 am | Report abuse | Reply)

      December 20, 2011 at 12:17 am |
    • Answer

      Here's my reply from before..

      Intelligent Design is creationist. When you want to discuss science and use science then you are relevant.

      It's your choice to come out clean and not try to confuse your take with creationism and embed them into science and try to redefine that as truth. It will never be valid.

      -You tell me where you think your Intelligent Design is valid. State it. Don't put out outright lies.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:17 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      There's a reply to your earlier question at the top of Page 23 that you should read.
       
      In addition to that advice, I also suggest that you make more of an effort to distinguish between what you're quoting from someone else and what you're writing yourself, since generally the latter disagrees with the former, and if it's not apparent who wrote what, and where the dividing line is, it just seems hopelessly contradictory and confused. As others have suggested (repeatedly) this is one of the virtues of using the "Reply" function, since it spares you having to quote the person you're responding to.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:20 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The Bible teaches us that God created the Universe. I don't understand why you continue to ignore this fact.

      Amen.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:21 am |
    • Answer

      @HeavenSent

      Read your own sentence. Again. Again and yet again.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:24 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Because the Bible is a book that has already been proven wrong.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:24 am |
    • fred

      Answer
      The earth is balanced, consistent patterns and laws exist everywhere we look. Chaos is the natural condition yet we see order. The brain seeks to balance and rationalize just as you rationalize your anti God bias as a product of greater knowledge rather than a blind spot to a reality you brain cannot make sense of.
      Intellegent design not a random improbable series of events is the most likely.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:29 am |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heaven sent.. the bible tells you god created the universe..no teaching involved. teaching involves thought, discussion and understanding.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:29 am |
    • HeavenSent

      GodofLunaticsCreation, you babbled:

      "Because the Bible is a book that has already been proven wrong."

      You are incorrect.

      Amen.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:29 am |
    • HeavenSent

      EvolvedDNA, you spewed:

      "Heaven sent.. the bible tells you god created the universe..no teaching involved. teaching involves thought, discussion and understanding."

      God gives us thought and understanding.

      Amen.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:30 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Yes it has! c. Creation of the Sun, The Earth and the Moon

      According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the Sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.

      d. Vegetation Created on the third day and Sun on the fourth day

      According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the Bible?

      If Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the Qur’an and had copied its contents from the Bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the Bible contains? The Qur’an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.
      e. The Sun and the Moon both Emit light

      According to the Bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, “And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night”.

      Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the Qur’anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the Bible and then copied such corrected passages in the Qur’an is to think of something impossible.
      f. Adam the First man on Earth, lived 5,800 years ago

      As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:

      i) 1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
      ii) Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
      iii) 2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today

      These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

      There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.

      The Qur’an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible – what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

      g. Noah and the Flood

      The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.
      This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur’anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur’an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur’an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur’an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.

      It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur’an.

      h. Moses and Pharaoh of the Exodus

      The story of Moses (pbuh) and the Pharaoh of the Exodus are very much identical in the Qur’an and the Bible. Both scriptures agree that the Pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue Moses (pbuh) and led the Israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The Qur’an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92: “This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!” [Al-Qur’an 10:92]
      Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II’s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur’anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs’ body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
      This verse of the Qur’an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur’an. He later wrote a book ‘The Bible, the Qur’an and Science’, and confessed that the author of the Qur’an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:33 am |
    • fred

      GodofLunaticsCreation
      The Bible spot on for its intended purpose. If you are trying to use it as a hammer or science book try the right tool.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Answer

      @fred

      Don't blame me for actually telling you that the Intelligent Design community is all about creationism.. Just blame yourselves for trying to pass it off as a subst-i-t-u-t-e for real science. You people invented it just to complete with science that your kind couldn't comprehend. There are real scientists who are religious that do away with creationism and have accepted evolution – but certainly not you. We don't care about you.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:35 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      fred writes: "Chaos is the natural condition yet we see order."
       
      Actually we see both, because both occur in nature. Examples: chaos in a babbling brook, order in a salt crystal. Many more examples available upon request.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • Answer

      @HeavenSent

      "You are incorrect."

      "God gives us thought and understanding."

      -Keep on telling yourself that.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, you babbled:

      "-Keep on telling yourself that."

      You keep denying it and see where it lands you.

      Amen.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:39 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Bible proven wrong like I said before. I offered evidence for this even though it only takes common sense to prove the bible is wrong. If the bible were a statement admissible in court it would have NO credibility, based on all the falsehoods within.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:40 am |
    • Answer

      @HeavenSent

      You can keep on your rant about denial .. but it is you who are reluctant to face reality. You want your heaven – it's cool.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:40 am |
    • fred

      GodofLuniticsCreation
      A though F is a bunch of nonsense. There are bunches of web sites dedicated to refute what you claim as an error regarding creation. Let me know if you have any questions or find none of the explainations acceptable. Personally, you have missed the point of Genesis in your attempt to reconcile common translation issues. As to Mohamed he based his information from texts and teachers of 650 AD that were well aware of the translation problems that crept into the Bible. This translation issue does not impact the truth or accuracy of the Bible for it’s intended audience. You for example went down the wrong rabbit hole to prove your heart was that of a skeptic not interested in the things of God rather the things of man. You received exactly what you were looking for Mammon. That is just how Divine this Bible is. You tried to sneak in and give God a black eye yet it was the darkness in your eye that was revealed.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:48 am |
    • HellBent

      "Chaos is the natural condition yet we see order."
      -What makes you say that chaos is the natural condition on earth?

      @fred, you see patterns because that is what you are programmed to do. That's why our species has been able to advance as far as it has – because we are great at seeking patterns. The most fantastical computer we've ever invented can't hold a candle to the power of the human brain to see patterns. Our survival depends on it. However, this trait also produces a lot of false positives. Just because you think you see 'evidence' of god, doesn't mean that there's anything there.

      Intelligent Design is likely? Ha! Then why did your "intelligent" designer see fit to give an organ that have almost no benefit, are entirely unnecessary, and occassionally kills? How come this omnipotent designer made us so woefully energy inefficient? There's a lot about the design of nature that can hardly be considered intelligent. Of course, if you've already convinced yourself otherwise, you'll be blind to these basic and obvious facts that are right in front of your face.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:50 am |
    • fred

      RichardRussel
      That babbling brook generates additional oxygen for the survival of life and stirs nutrients as required for balance in the system

      December 20, 2011 at 12:53 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Im sorry but, "THere are a bunch of websites..."? Is that your way of saying you have no argument or no proof?

      December 20, 2011 at 12:59 am |
    • HellBent

      "The Bible spot on for its intended purpose."

      And which purpose would that be:
      -Justifying slavery
      -Justifying war
      -Oppressing the civil rights of others
      -Telling others how to live their lives

      It's such a multi-purpose book, its hard to pigeon-hole it for a single purpose.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:59 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      That's absolutely right, Fred, the babbling brook DOES provide a variety of benefits to the life forms in and around it, but it's still a chaotic system, water tumbling and spraying every which way. And a salt crystal is still an example of spontaneous order. My point was that nature is NEITHER intrinsically chaotic nor intrinsically ordered but has some of each.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:00 am |
    • fred

      HellBent
      If there is a God, God could use any method in any form to create. Do you know the future, no you assume it. The only thing you think you know is already behind you. Just as the brain flips the image that comes through your lens to make sense of it so too you mind could well be flipping the actual order of things. Time is actually advancing through us as we are static only observing what has happened. Your mind flips it so that you think you are the one moving forward through time. Life is actually something your soul experiences as time rushes by.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:05 am |
    • HellBent

      @fred,

      That was a very verbose way of saying 'I have no clue why we have an appendix. You're right, it makes zero sense from an Intelligent Design standpoint.'

      December 20, 2011 at 1:07 am |
    • fred

      Richard Russell
      Would you consider complete balance between ordered and chaotic events if put on a scale? Should the universe collapse or envelope back to its original state would that be complete balance to the order of matter that is neither created nor destroyed but simply moving between state.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:09 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      Hey Fred you can worship your sci-fi story at the Comi-Con, with the trekkies. So your answer is well God can do anything. I can use that argument to prove anything I want.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:10 am |
    • Q

      "God could use any method in any form to create." Such is the position of theistic evolutionists who recognize the available evidence, both historical and observable in real time, indicates the "creative" power of replication, mutation and selection and that this is far more concordant with not only the functional utilities of biological forms, but more importantly with the less than "intelligent" anomalies (e.g. male nip-ples, the recurrent laryngeal nerve, humans possessing a defunct gene for egg yolk proteins, etc, etc).

      December 20, 2011 at 1:11 am |
    • fred

      HellBent
      The purpose of an appendix was job creation for intelligent design explanationists.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:20 am |
    • fred

      Q
      Whew, I thought for a moment you were going to include Christians with the less than "intelligent" anomalies !

      December 20, 2011 at 1:23 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      Fred, I don't have a clue as to what the balance is between order and chaos in the Universe. I don't think anybody does. Frankly, I'm not sure the concept has any meaning. The ONLY thing I was saying is that there's clearly SOME of each, and we shouldn't assume that the "state of nature" is either 100% chaotic or 100% ordered. As you yourself point out, some things go from chaotic to ordered (such as ice freezing) and some go the other way (such as a goblet shattering).
       
      MOST (not all) of the ordered things we see in our day-to-day lives in a modern industrialized society are artificial (designed and manufactured by human beings), so there's a natural tendency to associate order with human endeavor and disorder with nature, but that's a TENDENCY, not an absolute rule.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:28 am |
    • fred

      GodofLunaticsCreation
      Hey, you're taking all the Divinity out of my Bible and making me work hard to keep believing. Even if you do not believe the Bible are you leaning toward the Quran as of greater accuracy or just setting up the old one god is as good as any other?

      December 20, 2011 at 2:05 am |
  20. Bobs Friend

    How I love the Word of God:
    Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

    14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.c Do not be conceited.

    17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d says the Lord. 20On the contrary:

    “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
    if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
    In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”e
    21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

    December 20, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • GodofLunaticsCreation

      If that is the word of god then there are no Christians on this forum.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:16 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      “If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
      if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
      In doing this, YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."
       
      Boy, now THERE'S a noble motive for being generous to your fellow human beings. Man, Christians can't even do kindness very well, can they? How about kindness for its own sake, not out of a need for petty revenge?

      December 20, 2011 at 12:24 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      One of my favorite lines from "The Matrix" is :
      "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NErHBnXONvM&w=640&h=360]

      December 20, 2011 at 12:25 am |
    • Answer

      The thing about the matrix is that if you believe in the matrix then you would know that you are only guilty of thinking.
      You are not really living. You are a slave in the machine world and if you heap a religion onto top of that you are only adding more misery.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:29 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      @ Richard:
      "coals on his head" is a euphemism for giving him something to think about. i.e... a fire in his mind.. setting his mind on fire.
      My experience with blessing people who don't expect it / or don't think they deserve it is that they have a moment of confusion, of wonder.. It is a wonderful experience for both people.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:31 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Part of the Christian life is loving to bless people.. especially your "enemies". One of the most fun things to do is to "Conspire" on how to bless people, esp those who don't expect it.

      December 20, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • RichardSRussell

      Bobs Friend writes: "'coals on his head' is a euphemism for giving him something to think about."
       
      Yeah, BF, I know you guys have come up with rationalizations for every atrocity in the Bible, so I suppose it's only natural that you'd come up with rationalizations for all the petty meannesses, too, but let's not call it a "euphemism", which means a GENTLER, more civil way of expressing a harsher reality, when what you really mean is that it's an appeal to the worst part of someone's nature by saying "here's how you REALLY get back at the people you secretly hate".

      December 20, 2011 at 12:44 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      @ Richard :
      http://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Puzzling_Passages/BurningCoals.html
      The concept really has historical Hebraic roots, I know, not that you care about such things.... Revenge doesn't even fit within the context of that passage in any sense.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:01 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      @ Richard:
      I agree with your "Secretly hate" comment however.. that is the rub...It is against our nature...(Our sin nature to put it in a Christian sense) to bless people when they have hurt us.
      First of all.. no one will blame us if we take revenge.. everyone understands that "He had it coming" So from a purely human perspective, we have an open opportunity to avenge ourselves, and balance the justice equation. An this is usually what happens, and the cycle escalates and goes round and round.
      In fact, in the example of people stealing from us, not only do we want our property back, but we feel justified in demanding something extra to punish the thief.
      But Gods way is better than our way:
      1 Corin 12: 31 But now I will show you a more excellent way:
      13: 1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

      4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

      Praise the Lord!!

      December 20, 2011 at 1:11 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Jesus put a fine point on it:
      Matt 5:38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’g 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

      December 20, 2011 at 1:16 am |
    • Laer

      How I love the word of God, he so loves and takes care of the little children!

      2 Kings 2:23-24
      23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
      24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood and tare forty and two children of them.

      December 20, 2011 at 9:08 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.