By Thom Patterson, CNN
(CNN) - Has God taken an interest in the computer dating business? Does he (or she) have a username and password?
You might think so, if you’ve seen TV ads for the subscription-based dating website christianmingle.com.
The announcer says confidently: “Find God’s match for you.”
Really? Is God going to hook you up online? Cue the blogospheric debate.
"That's awfully bold to presume they already know who God wants you to marry," tweeted @Jessie_luvJesus recently.
"... SMH [shaking my head] these folks should be ashamed," wrote @EWebb424.
The tagline has been creating a “misconception” that God works exclusively through Christian Mingle, says spokeswoman Ashley Reccord.
Launched in 2001, Christian Mingle now boasts more than 5 million members, 40% of whom joined within the past year, according to the site (Full disclosure: Christian Mingle advertises on CNN.)
Members can register free and are asked to answer several questions based on religious background and personal preferences. Based on those answers, the website offers profiles of potential matches.
A search on the site for “soul mate” among women age 18-80 came up with 1,000 profiles, including one from Florida.
“I’m in search of the man God has for me,” writes the 35-year-old woman. “I’m looking for my best friend, my soul mate, and someone to share life’s greatest moments with.”
A 39-year-old woman in Colorado Springs, Colorado, wrote, “I still believe in true love … a soul mate. I am reasonable. I understand that there is not a perfect man out there … but one who is perfect for me.”
Says Reccord, the Christian Mingle spokeswoman: "God can orchestrate and use the medium of Christian Mingle to allow people to find their match for one another on the site. He may or may not use that means, but he can use that means."
So does that mean the cliché is true, that some matches really are “made in heaven?" Does God, if you believe there is one, pre-select us to pair up as life partners, as "soul mates?"
The Bible has little if anything to say about the matter, according to many religious writers and leaders. But several high-profile religious commentators have strong opinions about the idea:
–Soul mates do exist, according to some religious voices who cite the Jewish Talmud.
–Many Christians believe God helps people create their own kind of soul mates.
–Some say the Bible's "language of sexuality" supports the concept.
–Islam rejects the notion of soul mates, according to Muslim leaders.
–Many say belief in soul mates has negative consequences and can even be harmful.
Some of those warning about the dangers of the soul mate idea are Christians.
"If I get to heaven and I hear God say he had someone picked out for me, I'll believe him," says Lisa Anderson, host of "The Boundless Show," the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family's podcast for young adults.
"But it seems that this soul mate idea is really breaking up a lot of marriages and it's keeping a lot of young adults single."
Anderson says that believing in soul mates sets up two possible worst-case scenarios: a revolving door of marriages or a lifetime of being single.
Many young adults, she says, make this mistake: They think if they marry their “soul mate” then the marriage will be easy and wonderful. Then if the marriage turns rocky, game over; they suddenly decide they've picked the wrong mate. The marriage ends and they return to square one, searching for someone else to fill the soul mate role.
On the other hand, searching for a soul mate can be tragically intimidating, to the point of indecision.
"We're seeing young adults – X-ers and millennials - absolutely paralyzed and unable to get to marriage because they want to do it right," says Anderson. "They don't want to be their parents' generation ... the largest divorce generation in history."
Yada yada yada
But other evangelical Christian opinion-makers back Christian Mingle’s idea of an divinely ordained match.
"I would be scared to jump off a theological cliff and say we’re intended for one specific person," says Christian author Dannah Gresh. But based on the Bible’s “sexual language,” she doesn't dismiss the possibility.
The Old Testament’s original Hebrew text uses the word "yada" to imply the act of sex, says Gresh.
However, yada doesn't necessarily mean having sex in a literal sense, says Gresh. It means "to know," "to be known" or "to be respected."
She says yada biblically links the concepts of sex and the soul. "Sex is about a soul connection in its truest form," says Gresh, giving credence to a possible connection between God and the soul mate concept.
Not quite, says Bible scholar O. Wesley Allen of Lexington Theological Seminary. "The intimate knowing implied in [yada] is created through the act of sex, not as something that leads to union," Allen says.
A biblical companion to yada is the Greek word "ginosko," says Gresh, which is found in the New Testament. The Bible's original text uses ginosko to describe an "intimate soul connection between a husband and wife in the act of marriage," she says.
But she says the Bible also uses ginosko to describe a deep, intimate connection with God.
Gresh is giving too much weight to these words, Allen says. The fact that these words are used in dual contexts does not imply - or even suggest - the possibility of divinely ordained matches, according to Allen.
Gresh stresses that she does not believe God has intended matches for us. "However, I think there can be a really good theological argument made for exclusivity - once you have found someone you choose to love," she says.
On this point, says Allen, Gresh is on strong scriptural grounds.
A soul mate and a spare
Judaism, meanwhile, specifically includes the concept of soul mates in the Talmud, a collection of writings that constitute Jewish civil and religious laws.
According to the Talmud, before a soul comes into the world it is paired with a bashert, or first match, which is the first soul that you’re supposed to end up with, says Rabbi DovBer Pinson, of the New York-based IYYUN Center for Jewish Spirituality.
“If everything works out you’ll end up with that person,” says Pinson. Jewish tradition also includes a “second match” for every soul, which also could end up as a soul-mate relationship.
The names of everyone’s first and second matches are written down, “We just don’t have access to that information, because they’re written down in the spiritual plane” – or heaven, Pinson says.
The Kabbalistic tradition, rooted in Jewish mysticism, spells out clues to recognize whether your partner is your soul mate. If a partner is helping you overcome your negative traits and negative challenges while helping you pursue your positive traits, that person is your soul mate, says Pinson.
“It means these two souls originate from the same soul root and they’re meant to be connected to each other,” he says.
The Islamic faith, meanwhile, rejects the soul mate concept. "The words 'soul mate,' that you are meant to be with this person forever, there is no concept like this in Islam,” says Imam Mohamed Magid, president of the Islamic Society of North America.
Infinite knowledge allows God to know which partners end up together, but it’s up to people to sustain their marriages and stay together, Magid says, because “the concept of a soul mate in Islam would put the fault of divorce on God."
Are you telling me to 'settle?'
Shaunti Feldhahn and her husband, Jeff, have created their own industry with their popular books, required reading for Christian premarital counselors at thousands of churches.
But she says their marriage, which has produced the million-sellers "For Women Only" and "For Men Only,” was not necessarily preordained.
"If I'd gone to a different graduate school I may have never ended up marrying my husband," she acknowledges. Feldhahn says there probably isn't “one perfect soul mate” for each person. For her, the bottom line is that "whoever you end up with ... God knows what the eventual outcome of your life is going to be."
The flip side of that is God has also given people free will.
“We have every right to screw it up if we want to - and sometimes we do,” Feldhahn says.
However, if couples follow God’s general principles about relationships, it’s possible they can enjoy the same benefits as so-called “soul mates,” she says.
Don’t focus too much on the search for your perfect mate, according to Feldhahn, focus on leading a Christian lifestyle and things will work out fine.
As for Christian Mingle’s “God’s-match-for-you” tagline, Feldhahn says it could mean “Meet the person who’s going to end up being your perfect match - because that's what you're going to make it."
Is Feldhahn telling single folks to stop searching and to “settle” for the best person available?
“No,” she says. “That implies that the person cannot be the person you need. If you both live by God's principles, you will both become the people you need to be.”
OK, now I see why there are only 144000 going to be in paradise at the end :) good! none of you want to believe that there is a God or a God's will. Fine with me. Just don't complain that Christians say that you cannot get into paradise! either you beleive or you don't! stop complaing already.
By the way, all you idiotic bashers of Christians, there is a reason why the Imam said "there is no such thing as a soul mate".. According to Islam, a woman does not have a soul!
and – Hindus, of couse everything is predestined, so that even their incarnated Gods incarnate along with their consorts.
So now, get back to bashing Christians – that is all you learned after age 16 when you realized that you know everything in the universe. O wait, how does matter get mass? Noone? throw in some theories? if that fails another one?
So people who don't know how things are in reality (or what reality is) trying to find fault with people who atleast have a belief that there a "reason" for everything! O yes, use the flying sphagetti monster. Go about living your lives without a center.
Das rite! Crakas beez atheists n' shiit! Buncha neanrothal crakas! How a man like me gunna evolv frum sum ape?
My dear. I adore your childish outcry of "HAHA, LOOK AT ME, I HAS SMARTS". Nope. You don't. But you are cute. In a bizarre way.
Anyways. When I was about 4-6 years old I looked up the sky and asked how the stars came about. The answer I've been told was that god made them. To this day I can't help but feel my kindergartner self intellectually superior compared to you manchildren who lack the wits / intellectual honesty and bravery to ask the next question I did that night: how did god come about then?
Since you are talking about mass, perhaps I should throw in a mom joke to stay on your level.
If you're looking to Jesus for your relationship advice, look again. Jesus said, Matthew 8:22 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." and later, Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."
Sorry, missed that first verse Matthew 8:22 which is in response to a man requesting to bury his dead father... But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Matthew 10:34-37 "34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be ... "
The word "Hate" here is from a Greek(the language of the New Testament)word which simply means to "Love less"...So, Jesus wasn't saying to LITERALLY hate(as we know the meaning of the word) your father and mother. Numerous places, from the wedding at Caana, to His death on the Cross, Jesus showed the ut-most respect for His mother. At 12 years old Jesus left the Temple and went back to His home and "was obedient to them."( to Mary and Jesus' earthly father-figure, Joseph). In no place did Jesus ever encourage hatred to or for any one(especially elders).
That's a nice cherry picking / willful misinterpretation of scripture.
You know, perhaps the word god was mistranslated and the original text talks about mice overseering our universe.
Yeah, it's always funny to watch christians scramble to make excuses for their god.
To each thier own. I don't care. BUT....it does bother me when people quote verses from the Bible, that they are so very selective. No one ever quotes about how a woman shall not teach a man, how a woman has no right to speak in Church, how a woman cannot be seen in public without her head covered lest her hair be cut off...how a woman may not be seen in public when menstrating. How a woman ... even if in defence of her husband touches a mans genitals she must have her hand cut off.....How a father can sell his daughter, and she may be stoned and treated as a slave.How it is exceptable to own slaves.Why does no one ever quote these verses ? If it is because they are out of date, and do not apply to our modern times, than why do other still go without change?
woah! Where did you get this translation? Islam?
That's religion for ya.
Women are inferior – and it is the so called "truth". The world of men could use a lot less religion to solve the problems it has.
basically its the same reason why you have to go through childbirth. Eve ate the apple. Had her breast remained in man the apple would not have been eaten. Just a theory...
Shut yo craka mouf! Da bible say "Big mouf craka womyn, shut thy mouf!" Look it up, craka!
You have mixed the Old and the New Testaments together. Jesus came to fulfil the Jewish Law and the Prophets. These things (slavery, stoning, etc. were intended to end with Jesus' death, burial, Resurrection. As to the comment/question of Pauls writings about the women not speaking in Church/ asking their husbands at home, this pre-supposes that these women are new-comers to Christianity and that their husbands have some knowledge of the Scriptures(since they were most likely converted first). If you read the Acts of the Apostles, you will find women have no shortage of influence in the early Christian Church. Philip had daughters who prophesied. I have my doubts they engaged in prophecy in the privacy of their homes.
This sounds like a marketing ploy to me.
If everybody's got a soul mate, how do you account for the people who never marry? How do you account for the mutiply married who can't make it work at all?
You mean like, “jesus!! I’d love to do her...”
yes and I think your weiner will rot off.'
Nah, God would save me...
OK you convinced me. I need to find a story about atheists and go sound off against them. I'll call them names like moron and idiot. I'm a nasty tempered Yank, too, by gosh! I can be rude! It's a national past time.
Ooh dee doo! Yu beez a angry craka!
Youd be better off to use that time in a more intellectual stimulating activity like drinking a can of your favorite alcoholic beverage. Or better yet what this video, absolutely hilarious!...
http://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=GKIvdvC0O6o
OOps! My mistake. I forgot SKEWL was out and the Katy Perry fans were online in full force. Sleep tight, children.
Dis beez wher I finds all da whyte womens!
Is God going to hook you up online? Sure, as likely as Santa is going to slide down my chimney and leave me an iPad
God most certainly does have a particular mate for you, but he will reveal it to you personally by His Holy Spirit. Malachi 2:14,15
Let god find himself a mate then HE can really talk.
LOVE 'answer's' answer! :)
Hope she’s a knock-kneed atheist with a squint...
What makes me cringe every time I see this add is the shameless use of god as a marketing gimmick. Even pressuring people by saying "sometimes god is telling you to make the first move."
Why is this not taking the lord's name in vain? Why do Christians never seem to be outraged by the cynical use of god as a marketing gimmick, from fish symbols on business signs and cards to this kind of thing? Do people really not recognize when they are being manipulated? I don't claim to be a devout Christian, but this stuff offends even me.
I don't like it either, but I am not supposed to judge them. It's like that 'God is a Republican' thing and those men in Colorado Springs who met and conspired to turn Christians against abortion doctors and gay people. They did it to win votes for Republicans. The Bible clearly tells us not to cause divisions and to rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's and onto God what is God's. When should use prayer and our beliefs to vote but not bring that garbage into the churches. I blame pastors for not speaking out against such things, but then again, we aren't supposed to judge others but rather concentrate on cleaning up our own mistakes.
God does match us if we are willing to let Him. I've met my wife through God and we've been happily married for 15 years. It gets better as years go on. In our case, we had to give up what we wanted in order for Jesus to match us up. We gave up for His Providence.
I found my soul mate through the internet. We have been happily married for 4 years now. God most certainly has blessed our marriage..........I am sure some "unchristian" christians would question that, however, since we are a gay married couple. ;-)
who says you are also judgmental?
"Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." Romans 1:26-27)
No, be, not "unchristian" Christians, but loving Christians. Loving Christians who love their God and His commandments. We don't judge you at all, but we don't have to accept a falsehood that the God of Abraham "blessed your marriage" just because you say so. God bless you. And God loves you very much. But no, He doesn't bless "gay marriage."
It's common knowledge that consistency is not a strong point of christians.. But to be gay AND christian? That's rich.
Knock it off, Bob. You ain't perfect. All we're supposed to do is deliver the message and walk away. Leave it to the Lord.
And there was a time when it was thought that all Protestants would burn for their heresy.....and that slavery was justified by the Bible......and that the Bible condemned interracial marriage.........Thank God there are many Christian Churches who now have an enlightened view on gay marriage as well.......Those who don't will ultimately come down on the same side of history as the others noted above.
Congratulations to you both, 'Be'! May you have a long and wonderful life together. And just in case there is something that people like to call God around somewhere, I'm pretty sure that He/She/It would not be spending their time writing cruel things in a book, but would be loving people who love each other.
Thanks Amma Ma......I frequently laugh at those who get so upset about the "gay agenda!" The current gay agenda is that we want to live in a monogamous relationship, raise our children in a loving and supportive community, and be productive members of society without fear of discrimination in our workplace. Wow.....how sinful does that sound!
toadears, I didn't judge nor did I say I was any better. I took offense at someone saying if you question gay marriage you are "unchristian." I love my Lord and His teachings. I don't have to accept what someone else says when it is against the bible. I don't take any pleasure in it, but I feel it's important to correct someone who calls it "unchristian" to not accept something contrary to the bible just because they say so. I still love them and I don't judge them. I just don't agree with them.
@toadear....and those who used to say that interracial marriage was contrary to the Bible, and that slavery was condoned by the Bible took a similar stance as you do today. The bottom line is that if you take the Bible as a whole, you soon realize that a sincere love can and would never be condemned by the God of the Bible. Hence, although I would never question that you believe you are being faithful to the teachings, the reality is that those who condemn true love condemn God.
oops....my mistake, the above was meant to respond to bobx.
Interracial marriage was never contrary to the bible. And no slavery anything like what was in the US was not condoned in the bible. Look you're the one throwing this stuff out there, you say you have a sincere love, that's between you and God. But don't tell me. Sure I love my dad, my brother, my cat. I love other men. Your can feel a true bond there even affection. God can bless you both and your adopted kids. But you're wrong when you say it's "unchristian" to question "gay marriage." That's your opinion. And you know what you better be real careful when you talk about the word condemning. I'm not condemning anything. I support what the bible says and I just disagree with you. You've got some need to convince me you're right well again I don't have to agree. God loves you. He blesses you. As far as I know though He doesn't support gays being "married." If He does, I think He will let me know. But as far as I'm concerned you're talking about "condemning God" just sends up a red flag. That doesn't ring true to me and it sounds more like you're the one judging others.
I find that awful commercial on CNN to be annoying. This sort of thing belongs on the so-called "Christian" channels, not on a major news network, where Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc. have to be aggravated by it.
buy up some of their commercial time then =) Or are you some sort of expert on who gets to advertise where?
We're always in a race to see who can mute the TV or change the channel first when those horrid ads come on. Dreadful!
I think I need to go sort my socks.
Can't believe that in this year 2012 there are so many that believe in the super natural. When the Hubbel tesescope finds something, I might be interested but what a waste of time. With the world at over 7 billion in numbers, how can any responsible couple want to flood the country with ten or twenty more? Luckily, the more informed countries like Italy, France, Greece, Spain et al have reduced their birth rates as had China. Why is the U.S. so far behind the rest of the world?
Your problem is called swallowing too much toothpaste. Did you know Fluoride makes you stupid?
Is that lame insult all you have?
Well, okay that was cheap. Okay, when the hubble telescope figures out what is in the center of our galaxy i will begin to rely on it for proof of god.
Then possibly you might consider avoiding belief stories and goading the followers. We would both be happier. I never go to atheist web pages and goad them with my beliefs. Nor do I go to online stories about country music and scream insults promoting opera.
Wayyy too much religion and not enough education.
God did not marry the Virgin Mary. He just got her pregnant. Another dead beat father. Not one to give advice.
actually i think the 3 kings were special in the birth of christ. They brang Gold, Frankinscene and Myrr. They were rich once Jesus was born.
The bible never mentions 3 kings, only a mention of Magi (no particular number was given). The story says when they returned home (Arabia, Ethiopia and Tarsus) they gave away their fortunes and devoted their lives to spreading the word. Kinda sketchy as to the origins of the story, but no real mention of any of it in the bible.
BRANG???? They BRANG? Oh, please tell me you aren't this much of a hick and a moron.
I wonder what his child support fines are after 2000 years?
sorry your right three wise men, They brought gifts after following a star that led to jesus mary and joseph. Gee, you people are hard to please.
Funny how well Atheists know this stuff, huh? I've always been told that if I just studied, I would believe. Actually, my study is what slammed the door on religion.
Yep. The so-called Three Wise Men brought gold and the ABOMINATIONS of myrrh and frankincense to the baby Jesus. Incense is an abomination to God according to the Bible.
Christians are familiar with abominations since they love to trash gays for them. Speaking of hypocrisy . . . .
Observer, I can say that I dont have every answer. Ill be the first to admit that my biblical knowledge is minimal and I dont have the best english all the time. All I know is that when I prayed to God that he help me when I was at my worst, the most unexpected solution appeared without my own control. I dont need science or math or reason or even the bible for that matter. I can say confidently that Jesus exists in my heart. Its as real as though I took a match to my finger. ANd when I go to church, its the most peaceful place in the world for me. Beautiful music, the word of God, the Gospels. People who have faith dont need facts. God is in their hearts and thats all the reason I need.
I feel bad for you to be honest and just feel id be greedy if i hogged this awesome thing I found which I believe is Jesus.
Are you telling me that you are NOT INTERESTED in the words, commandments of the most wonderful, the most perfect, the most loving, the most just, the most powerful being in the universe?
Holy Molly! That's completely unheard of. I'm yet to stumble upon a single christian who doesn't know the bible by heart.. But now I might have found one!
Yes, for all the christians out there: it was a satire. You guys are clueless about your own holy book (Or as we like to call it: Holy Sand Manual) and the fact we are more bible literate than you bible thumpers makes us atheists sad.
fd a, it's "YOU'RE", you stupid g it. Get back to me when you make it past your sop ho more year in HS. You are as poor an excuse as I've seen here, and that's really saying something.
It's a sin to fail to edu ca te the brain matter the good lord gave you. Even if its mass IS only eq uiva l ent to that of a wa ln ut.
A meeting of minds.
For years, I firmly believed in God. I read the bible, went to church, prayed every day, and totally believed He existed. Over the years, I came to realize that if there was, indeed, a god, he couldn't have cared less about me. His "choice" for me turned out to be a crazy,adulterous, abusive hypocrite. Once I came to my senses, quit praying that God would change things,and took control of my own life, my life got better. I became the kind if person I wanted to be. I found the goodness in MYSELF. I could care about others rather than try to impress them with my "godliness". I looked at the universe around me and realized that there was no way a god could have made it. BTW, christians......do you realize you carry in your bodies the proof that god doesn't exist? It's called an appendix. I'm proud to call myself an atheist, because I am now a clear, objective thinker who is at peace with his place in the universe. I sincerely hope you can come to that place for yourself. Don't listen to fear-mongers. What does your inner voice REALLY say? Don't be afraid to be honest with yourself.
You know God exists, why are you lying to your self. Get out of here- that's so funny. Just quit that nonsense.
Hi Greg, I just did not get how the appendix can prove God does not exist...
Hi derandlu! The appendix is a relic of our evolution. It used to be a an organ to further digestion. Since we haven't needed it for a fewmillion years, it has shrunken to a simple flap of tissue whose only use is to get infected, leading to death. If our bodies were designed by a creator, why would he have made them with such design flaws?
An atheist once said...."I don't believe in a God, but I pray there is no hell." To whom was he praying?
@Betty Z. Smith
Lame stuff that quote! For praying and being stupid. You might as well spread your delirious fear out to the world – oh you are. Carry on moron.
And yet you found it necessary to come here and poke sticks through the cage. Uh huh. Well, thanks for that. I tried many other religions before I came to a Christ based faith. I never blame G-d for silly human mistakes. It's bigger than humans. Like the Bible said, the miracle is that He notices us tiny, minuscule humans at all. King David from Israel wrote that. And you are???
greg, that must have been painful your I assume ex(?) cheating on you. It reminds me of an anecdote I heard once though of two Jews visiting Auschwitz. One said, "After this, how can you believe in God again?" The other replied, "No, after this how can one believe in man again?" You see it seems to me God tells husbands and wives to love each other but it's us – people, humans – that are imperfect. It sounds like it isn't God's fault that your ex cheated on you. It's not yours either. (At least as far as I would know) I can appreciate that was painful, but I hope you consider giving God a break on that one. And by the way, I love science and I happen to look at the universe and see extremely strong evidence that it is ordered and created by an intelligent designer. Aristotle, Newton, Kepler, Einstein, LeMaitre, those are some great people who agree. And you're wrong about the appendix. It's part of the immune system and has been proven to be a safe house for good bacteria. You may not realize it but diarrhea from cholera is a leading cause of death in the world. In these places in particular, the appendix provides a store of good bacteria to replenish the GI tract after a non-lethal bout of cholera. God bless you.
Currently my favorite passage. Come on Christians share yours:0
King James Version (KJV)
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Not to be difficult but I often find picking "favorites" difficult in anything – even as a kid I'd qualify my answer to a favorite color as blue but I like all the colors and wouldn't want to be without any. So I'd have to really say I have no single favorite verse. The one you quote is one I love very deeply. This one from the Old Testament always stands out to me too:
11 Then the LORD said: Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD;* the LORD will pass by. There was a strong and violent wind rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD—but the LORD was not in the wind; after the wind, an earthquake—but the LORD was not in the earthquake;
12after the earthquake, fire—but the LORD was not in the fire; after the fire, a light silent sound.*
13When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave.
(1 Kings 19:11-13)
Thank you for making the opportunity. The Lord's peace be with you.
I have quite a few: Act 2:38, Acts 4:12, Luke 24:47, St. John ch14, St. John 10:30, to name a few. God bless and good day!
Hmmm, are you supposed to understand what that meant Chrism from reading it or do you need a bit of background knowledge. What was the light silent sound and who was Elijah and why was he in a cave?
Oh I read it 5 times, I think I get it now. haha, stupid me:) THe bible can be hard to understand sometimes...
Exodus 14:20 Proves that god either never existed or is close to powerless.
tony, non sequitur, false by default. The verse shows God's love and power.
What a bunch of religous goof balls!!!!!!!!!!!
2 Kings 2
In which god murders 42 small children for the crime of.. calling his prophet bald. God is sensitive to hairlines, so it seems.
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Adam, the Jews are more clever than you think. The catholic church doesn't even hold the story as literal but to warn children to respect prophets. The old testament contains many things. For example the book of Job is believed to be didactic and not historical. Oh, I know, when someone like you is looking to make a fuss and argue, you'll turn around and complain that I'm picking and choosing or something. But see, it's you who are doing that. You're picking out verses you don't understand without having consulted a rabbi nor the catholic teaching on it.
You know, you make a good point. I'll take your advice. Next time Peter Popoff tries to sell me some Miracle Spring Water I'll ask Peter Popoff whether the stuff works or not.
I'll also ask the muslims about the authencity of their quran.
I'll also ask the bahai about the authencity of their kitáb-i-aqdas.
Surely, the ancient priests of horus will give me a reliable proof for their pyramid texts.
The scientologists will convince me how their dianetics is reliable.
And the book of shadows will reveal to me that the wiccan is the one true religion.
Of course, in your provintionalist mindset you didn't consider that, did you?
@Adam, you're right, I didn't consider your particular questions, but that's because they are entirely unrelated to the discussion for two major reasons.
The first reason is you were making a theological complaint about the God of Abraham, claiming the scripture revealed about Him is incompatible with a loving nature. I don't think consideration of other religions needed to be any part of that. I'm glad you said my response was a good point. I hope then we've answered your theological complaint. I mean it most sincerely too. I am Jewish and catholic. I think it is wise as St. Augustine said to consider when a verse seems troubling that we may not understand it. I think it is prudent to seek proper understanding. I'm not trying to hide the fact that I would find the verse a bit troubling if it were literal. That said, even if it were literal, I know God would be taking those children to Himself and He would have the right. It would still not be incompatible with a loving creator.
The second reason I didn't consider those questions is you are discussing issues – authenticity and proof of entire scriptures – that are really much broader than the initial question. And you've now indeed opened it up to multiple other beliefs. Adam, Jews and Christians both believe the one true God of Abraham created AND REVEALED Himself to all people. I believe as the catholic church does that there are truths to be found among all peoples. There may well be truths in Bahai (which actually I visited the gardens in Haifa about a year ago), and even wicca. I certainly believe Islam contains truths for there are many things Mohammed agreed with in the Jewish and Christian faiths. However, again, each set of beliefs would need to be taken separately. And indeed, just like I cautioned you with the old testament, you should take each *as it is intended.* In fact I sense you really missed the point – I'm guessing you're kind of being flippant there thinking I am doing just what I said you might claim – picking and choosing what is literal. That seems to be your implication when you say "The scientologists will convince me..." Convince you implies an active conversation, does it not? It sounds like you're implying they'll even distort things if needed. Well, if that's what you're implying you missed the point. I wasn't distorting. I was again cautioning you to take the old testament as it is understood BY those who believe. So that's what you should do for these other beliefs.
Now if you'd like to discuss any of these other beliefs in more detail, I'd be glad to. But that's a big topic, wouldn't you agree? I mean what were you expecting me to do, go through each one just because you throw them out there and tell you what I disagree with in each one? Oh, I can hit some highlights. I disagree with Mohammad that Jesus was just a human prophet and that Mohammed was a greater prophet. I disagree with Bahai on similar grounds (it also considers Jesus a human messenger to my understanding) and also on its belief that the universe is eternal since that contradicts science which shows it to be about 13.7 billion years old. I certainly disagree with Egyptian mythology. There's some excellent articles you might consider looking up that show the myths to be much derived from astrotheology. I know too there were no eye-witnesses to any of their so-called deities. Scientology, sorry. Hubbard may have some good ideas, but the man was a swindler. If you don't know that you might want to read more about his personal life and how he defrauded friends out of money. And wicca, I admit I don't know that much about. But I suspect it has some beliefs contrary to what I believe and I'd probably reject those. But as I said, all of these belief systems may well hold truths, in fact I'm sure they do.
I hope that provided a satisfactory answer to your question. I did get a little chuckle I think you were trying to insult me by saying "provintionalist" mindset but that's not a word, Adam. Did you mean provincial? If you meant it to imply narrow-minded, allow me to retort. You don't know me and you're the one who's being narrow-minded if you go around assuming you know about people when you don't. Take care. :)
I find many girls from different religions as my soul mate and the list keeps increasing. What do I do ? :d
I recommend you graduate from high school. Start there.
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