By Thom Patterson, CNN
(CNN) - Has God taken an interest in the computer dating business? Does he (or she) have a username and password?
You might think so, if you’ve seen TV ads for the subscription-based dating website christianmingle.com.
The announcer says confidently: “Find God’s match for you.”
Really? Is God going to hook you up online? Cue the blogospheric debate.
"That's awfully bold to presume they already know who God wants you to marry," tweeted @Jessie_luvJesus recently.
"... SMH [shaking my head] these folks should be ashamed," wrote @EWebb424.
The tagline has been creating a “misconception” that God works exclusively through Christian Mingle, says spokeswoman Ashley Reccord.
Launched in 2001, Christian Mingle now boasts more than 5 million members, 40% of whom joined within the past year, according to the site (Full disclosure: Christian Mingle advertises on CNN.)
Members can register free and are asked to answer several questions based on religious background and personal preferences. Based on those answers, the website offers profiles of potential matches.
A search on the site for “soul mate” among women age 18-80 came up with 1,000 profiles, including one from Florida.
“I’m in search of the man God has for me,” writes the 35-year-old woman. “I’m looking for my best friend, my soul mate, and someone to share life’s greatest moments with.”
A 39-year-old woman in Colorado Springs, Colorado, wrote, “I still believe in true love … a soul mate. I am reasonable. I understand that there is not a perfect man out there … but one who is perfect for me.”
Says Reccord, the Christian Mingle spokeswoman: "God can orchestrate and use the medium of Christian Mingle to allow people to find their match for one another on the site. He may or may not use that means, but he can use that means."
So does that mean the cliché is true, that some matches really are “made in heaven?" Does God, if you believe there is one, pre-select us to pair up as life partners, as "soul mates?"
The Bible has little if anything to say about the matter, according to many religious writers and leaders. But several high-profile religious commentators have strong opinions about the idea:
–Soul mates do exist, according to some religious voices who cite the Jewish Talmud.
–Many Christians believe God helps people create their own kind of soul mates.
–Some say the Bible's "language of sexuality" supports the concept.
–Islam rejects the notion of soul mates, according to Muslim leaders.
–Many say belief in soul mates has negative consequences and can even be harmful.
Some of those warning about the dangers of the soul mate idea are Christians.
"If I get to heaven and I hear God say he had someone picked out for me, I'll believe him," says Lisa Anderson, host of "The Boundless Show," the evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family's podcast for young adults.
"But it seems that this soul mate idea is really breaking up a lot of marriages and it's keeping a lot of young adults single."
Anderson says that believing in soul mates sets up two possible worst-case scenarios: a revolving door of marriages or a lifetime of being single.
Many young adults, she says, make this mistake: They think if they marry their “soul mate” then the marriage will be easy and wonderful. Then if the marriage turns rocky, game over; they suddenly decide they've picked the wrong mate. The marriage ends and they return to square one, searching for someone else to fill the soul mate role.
On the other hand, searching for a soul mate can be tragically intimidating, to the point of indecision.
"We're seeing young adults – X-ers and millennials - absolutely paralyzed and unable to get to marriage because they want to do it right," says Anderson. "They don't want to be their parents' generation ... the largest divorce generation in history."
Yada yada yada
But other evangelical Christian opinion-makers back Christian Mingle’s idea of an divinely ordained match.
"I would be scared to jump off a theological cliff and say we’re intended for one specific person," says Christian author Dannah Gresh. But based on the Bible’s “sexual language,” she doesn't dismiss the possibility.
The Old Testament’s original Hebrew text uses the word "yada" to imply the act of sex, says Gresh.
However, yada doesn't necessarily mean having sex in a literal sense, says Gresh. It means "to know," "to be known" or "to be respected."
She says yada biblically links the concepts of sex and the soul. "Sex is about a soul connection in its truest form," says Gresh, giving credence to a possible connection between God and the soul mate concept.
Not quite, says Bible scholar O. Wesley Allen of Lexington Theological Seminary. "The intimate knowing implied in [yada] is created through the act of sex, not as something that leads to union," Allen says.
A biblical companion to yada is the Greek word "ginosko," says Gresh, which is found in the New Testament. The Bible's original text uses ginosko to describe an "intimate soul connection between a husband and wife in the act of marriage," she says.
But she says the Bible also uses ginosko to describe a deep, intimate connection with God.
Gresh is giving too much weight to these words, Allen says. The fact that these words are used in dual contexts does not imply - or even suggest - the possibility of divinely ordained matches, according to Allen.
Gresh stresses that she does not believe God has intended matches for us. "However, I think there can be a really good theological argument made for exclusivity - once you have found someone you choose to love," she says.
On this point, says Allen, Gresh is on strong scriptural grounds.
A soul mate and a spare
Judaism, meanwhile, specifically includes the concept of soul mates in the Talmud, a collection of writings that constitute Jewish civil and religious laws.
According to the Talmud, before a soul comes into the world it is paired with a bashert, or first match, which is the first soul that you’re supposed to end up with, says Rabbi DovBer Pinson, of the New York-based IYYUN Center for Jewish Spirituality.
“If everything works out you’ll end up with that person,” says Pinson. Jewish tradition also includes a “second match” for every soul, which also could end up as a soul-mate relationship.
The names of everyone’s first and second matches are written down, “We just don’t have access to that information, because they’re written down in the spiritual plane” – or heaven, Pinson says.
The Kabbalistic tradition, rooted in Jewish mysticism, spells out clues to recognize whether your partner is your soul mate. If a partner is helping you overcome your negative traits and negative challenges while helping you pursue your positive traits, that person is your soul mate, says Pinson.
“It means these two souls originate from the same soul root and they’re meant to be connected to each other,” he says.
The Islamic faith, meanwhile, rejects the soul mate concept. "The words 'soul mate,' that you are meant to be with this person forever, there is no concept like this in Islam,” says Imam Mohamed Magid, president of the Islamic Society of North America.
Infinite knowledge allows God to know which partners end up together, but it’s up to people to sustain their marriages and stay together, Magid says, because “the concept of a soul mate in Islam would put the fault of divorce on God."
Are you telling me to 'settle?'
Shaunti Feldhahn and her husband, Jeff, have created their own industry with their popular books, required reading for Christian premarital counselors at thousands of churches.
But she says their marriage, which has produced the million-sellers "For Women Only" and "For Men Only,” was not necessarily preordained.
"If I'd gone to a different graduate school I may have never ended up marrying my husband," she acknowledges. Feldhahn says there probably isn't “one perfect soul mate” for each person. For her, the bottom line is that "whoever you end up with ... God knows what the eventual outcome of your life is going to be."
The flip side of that is God has also given people free will.
“We have every right to screw it up if we want to - and sometimes we do,” Feldhahn says.
However, if couples follow God’s general principles about relationships, it’s possible they can enjoy the same benefits as so-called “soul mates,” she says.
Don’t focus too much on the search for your perfect mate, according to Feldhahn, focus on leading a Christian lifestyle and things will work out fine.
As for Christian Mingle’s “God’s-match-for-you” tagline, Feldhahn says it could mean “Meet the person who’s going to end up being your perfect match - because that's what you're going to make it."
Is Feldhahn telling single folks to stop searching and to “settle” for the best person available?
“No,” she says. “That implies that the person cannot be the person you need. If you both live by God's principles, you will both become the people you need to be.”
Naive, and selectively educated, people will always fall for anything. Mystical and magical supernatural beliefs feed on ignorance and then later arrogance (the idea you know something unknowable and are favored by your personal flavor of an imaginary friend). Amen brothers and sisters.
me and the significant other have been happily unmarried for 25 years,why do you need a piece of paper to show love for one-another.
Religions require that you pay them respect – that is why.
If you do not prescribe to their ridiculous notions, then you do not have morals as they do. That is their bit/ one-liner on claiming moral superiority.
Answer you really, truly have no clue, don't you?
Well, Ricky, why don't you give us all your insight? What "clue" do you think you have? Can you answer the question posed by the original poster? If a couple is happy and has stayed together for 25 years without the benefit of the blessings of the church, what's the problem?
Are you going to try to tell us that a church marriage is sure to last longer? Go ahead. I could use a laugh.
Just another way to make money off people's misguided beliefs. Do you really think God reveals his secrets via an online dating club? The people behind this are going to hell, of that you can be sure.
I agree – it's taking advantage of people's beliefs – plus, one could easily deceive the other online anyway – which is true for everything we see online… I wish we could stop using religion and belief in God in politics and in profiting.
LOL...no such thing as a "soul mate." We make our soul mates through something called compromise and effort. No such thing as the perfect ms. or mr right. And as far as the Christian god having a hand in all this. Pfftt... .come on people, you still need to prove YOUR particular god even exists.
I'm a gay man. Where do I sign up? I'd love for God to find me a match.
Funny as he ll
The funny thing about atheists is they always claim to know so much about science yet they flock in groves when god is the question. THe truth is that if the news actually spoke like a textbook, there wouldn't be any readers. Forgive me its late and Im tired but there is so much out there is our universe im tired of CNN limiting our knowledge to a few beliefs. Imagine a news site that talked about the real scientific issues of today. Like polar shirts of climatic warfare or the galaxy while respecting the beliefs of others every employee in corporate america is forced to adhere too.
Funny thing about the religious retards – they like to tell stories of their imaginary friend over and over again.
Jesus loves you! Naive, and selectively educated, people will always fall for anything. Mystical and magical supernatural beliefs feed on ignorance and then later arrogance (the idea you know something unknowable and are favored by your personal flavor of an imaginary friend). Amen brothers and sisters.
Just doing our part to keep the crazy on the fringes of society. Thank you for noticing our hard work.
Flock in groves, or flock in droves, or what the hell ? fda have you been drinking ? Do you even know what a "grove" is ?
Just a question. How many of you christians are visiting people in prison, clothing the unclothed, aiding the sick and helping with the poor?
Well......I'm a doctor in a homeless clinic.....regularly buy clothes for my patient......and unfortunately tend to share a number of the "same patients" with my friend who is the physician in the prison system. Of course, some on this site have questioned whether or not I am a "Christian" because my marriage is a gay marriage. Luckily, my church has no doubts about my Christianity.
i gave 15 dollars to mother teresa's charity this year. Its ALOT for me, im the average struggling engineering student... But i do volunteer my time for animal shelters and ticket raising.
Just for the record, I hope you both give until you can't see straight. We NEED more people out there like you two, giving without the need for a pat on the back. Being Gay means nothing in the end. Love is the only thing that will matter. Don't allow small minded people to get in the way of your happiness! II can't stand people who are against people for their way of life, this included christians who are against non-christians and vice versa! Wish you both the best and keep up keeping up the world!
no notachristian....just an answer to your question. Don't ask the question if you don't want an answer. Also, doing the corporal works of mercy is nothing to be overly proud of......it's just people do.
The church donates more food, clothing, time, and money to the poor and needy in one day than the 1000 atheist jokers on this blog ever will in their entire lifetime, combined.
I'm sure you can prove that, can't you, RIcky? Right after you answer the other question I asked you. Go on. Get to it.
Be, go f*$k yourself. I can ask any question I want even if I don't want the answer. Rick, I sincerely doubt that, but it isn't something they are actually supposed to be keeping up with nor expounding about. Did you know that the first boxes of supplies delivered to the WTC site after the bombings were from the Church of Satan? Bet you didn't. It was many deliveries later that the christian churches started getting aid out there. You did know about them giving aid because it was all over the T.V.! Funny how the Satanic Church didn't feel the need for the publicity but the Christian church simply gobbled up all that air time!
The whole idea of God being involved in dating is absurd. It is simply a way for a commercial venture to take advantage of religion to make a buck; nothing new. If it allows for like-minded Christians to find, perhaps, a safer way to meet potential mates, then good for the lucky ones. But if its like other dating sites, I'm sure there are a lot of unhappy customers in their ranks, and others who do in fact meet their match. As for me, there is no place for me on Christian mingle because I'm gay, and we all know that Christians don't want me hanging around. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere to find God's match for me. Someone who I can burn in hell with. Ah well. .. ..
Ted Bundy and Richard Dahmer safe right, since they were of course Christians "tormented by their guilt".
The Bible says that people who divorce and remarry are guilty of adultery, but many Christians ignor than so they can trash others rather than their own hypocrites.
True.....I find it very interesting that the person who authored DOMA is currently on his third or fourth marriage. I guess marriage is just supposed to be between one man and one woman (at a time).
Yes, Republican Bob Barr (currently libertarian), the author of DOMA is twice divorced and currently remarried. Few religious Republicans seem to recognize the hypocrisy in much of what they say and do.
Naive, and selectively educated, people will always fall for anything. Mystical and magical supernatural beliefs feed on ignorance and then later arrogance (the idea you know something unknowable and are favored by your personal flavor of an imaginary friend).
I sometimes wonder when a person says "the bible says" if they are sane, since the bible says some crazy stuff like say a story of Moses killing hundreds of thousands and keeping the virgins and say God killing all his children except for Noah and his crew, and say like kids being killed for laughing at a Prophets bald head, and say like stoning to death women for speaking, and explicit endorsement of slavery. Super inspired writings I only wish more people would actually open and read so the rest of us who have can someday live in a world free of the division, hate, and supernatural mumbo jumbo.
Amen brothers and sisters.
I like this "be" guy. Hope you return a lot !
just like the snake in the egg demon extraction process.
If any of you doubters would like "empirical" evidence of God's existence--I can't give it! Not the "empirical" evidence you claim to seek. If I should tell you my testimony ( or my "walk with God") , you would only scorn it. So what's a Believer to do? I think I know know: I will tell you of a MIRACLE that I saw with my own two eyes. This happenened about 25 or more years ago, in a little country Churchouse just off 57-60West Highway in a Pentecostal church. There was a preacher from Canada there, and he was what we sometimes refer to as a "faith-healer", meaning that he lays his hands on a person's forehead and prays for that person's sickness or needs, or whatever. There was a lady present who HAD a cyst. This cyst was on the back of her right shoulder and she was sitting about 15 feet in front of myself, my mother and my aunt. We were there visiting from another church. Everybody wants to see a miracle and I actually saw one that night. I was about 9 or 10 years old and now I am 36, but I will never forget it as long as I live. The preacher came by and said the Name of "Jesus." That's all. And sorta bumped her on the forehead. And nothing (it seemed) happened. After about 10 seconds, I SAW this woman's off-white dress turn red with thick red puss and dark blood. The woman jumped up and said:"It's gone! It's Gone!" Now, I saw this happen and I know the lady and she still attends church there.
Welcome to the reality that life is vast. With vast different experiences to reach happiness. Your own personal take on your 'religion' as is frequent on the other fake religions.
I think I failed to say that this miraculous event took place in a Pentecostal Church just off the 60 West high way in Sikeston, Missouri. Sorry about my flub. God bless you, everyone.
"May your own personal god go with you."
It is after all your own god – you created.
Dear "Answer": this isnt fake drivel. I saw this HAPPEN. It wasnt performed by a swami or a magician. It was from God as sure as any event can and is from God Almighty.
No Missouri Boy – you couldn't explain it. It just means that your mind could not find any conclusion other than default to a god position.
Even Newton was affected by the "default" conclusion. You like your petty excuses – simple as that.
I have never created a God. But I have obeyed His Word. Whether you choose to believe or not is entirely up to you. I only wanted to SHRE what I have seen with my own eyes...God bless you.
See that phrase "HIS word" – so funny.
How your kind are so completed in love with that stupidity. Laughable.
Would you like to buy a bridge? 50 dollars! Cheap.
One of the best magic acts now is a couple where the woman instantly changes outfits. She does this several times during the show. They were featured on "America's Got Talent" I believe. It's a great magic trick.
Share is whate I meant to say. I wanted to share what I saw with you. And I isnt just GOD "by default" since it was expected by the minister who prayed. I was a small boy, but this man KNEW WHO he was praying to. It was definitely not by "default" it was by our God's design.
HAHA...HAHAHAHAHHAHA...."It's gone, it's gone". LOL....that is a ridiculous lie!
What a sweet story... A cyst? OK... With all those "miracles" happening, I just wonder how NOT ONE amputee had his/her limb grown back. Now, THAT would be a miracle. But for all these centuries, it hasn't happened. Not once. And if it ever does happen (which I doubt), it will be because scientists will learn how to re-grow and attach a limb, not because God did it.
Trouble is , Observer is that i was the Observer that particular time. I know these people and they are real people. This wasnt a "magic show" with all the required smoke and mirrors needed to create magic. This was an humble little group of roughly 100 believers. Would you like to have the lady's name? I can let her tell you what happened.
You are still a "boy" if you haven't figured out that these snake-oil salesmen plant people in the church to pretend to be healed. Did you KNOW that woman? Was she your neighbor? Did you ever SEE her cyst with your own eyes? How do you know that the 'red' you saw was 'blood and pus' and not ketchup?
Really, bumpkin, get a clue.
Hi! I'm the Cyst Demon! That darned Jesus cast me out of my nice cosy pus-filled boil! Now I have no boil to call home! Darn you, Jesus!!!
Can on to: Friend, how do you KNOW an amputated limb HASNT grown back. Based on what I saw as a boy, I see absolutely no reason why God cannot heal in such a way.
Sleight of hand requires no smoke and no mirrors! You should read up on illusion. Also, did you know that Jesus was a doctor? Bet that explains a lot of his "miracles" right there! Christians should read more, the bible says to test everything and to be like a child...children are the most skeptical people in the world and ask the most questions of anyone! Truth is, if you did that, you would not believe, but you can't truly follow the bibles teachings unless you do question your own beliefs! Hrmmmmm
How do I know it hasn't?!? How do YOU know it HAS??? If you're claiming something, it's on you to prove it; I am not going to prove a negative, you need to prove a positive.
To Tom Yes I know definitely know that woman. My Mother and Father have known her all their lives. I may be just a country bumpkin, but I am a country bumpkin who has witnessed a miracle to a woman we all know, by a God who cares enough about us to hear our prayers. And Tom Tom the Piper's son: no, the lady was not planted there by the Canadian preacher. If you take the time to re-read all the story, you will see that she already was there. Everyone knows her.
I like for your god to rid this world of religion. :)
It isnt "on me" to prove anything. I dont have to prove anything. I saw it happen. I dont stand to profit by this story monetarily. I am only telling this because I saw it happen. Why should any of you be angry about that?
So, the omnipotent creator of the universe pops an old lady's massive zit, but can't seem to find a little clean water/food for literally millions of dying children. Makes perfect sense if you just don't think about it...
Look up the magic act David and Dahlia on YouTube. I have seen their act live from a very short distance away and even knowing it's a trick, you can't see how they do it. They obviously admit it's magic. They could fool just as many people if they claimed it was a legitimate miracle in a religious tent.
What god isn't so petty in their ways right?
Mr./Mrs./Miss Answer: I truly believe, based on Scripture and what I have seen, felt and Received from God, that my God will in fact rid this world of His people, just hold on a little longer and we will be out of your way. I couldn't be any happier.....
You are dumber than a bag of hair.
Do you think anyone is so gullible as to believe what you write on an anonymous board, you twit?
Fine. I'm the Queen of England.
Your sad little story doesn't mean anything. You can boast your empty little world over the internet all you like. You'll still not as happy as anybody else who does not take in your ridiculous antics of religion.
And Q nails it. Missouri Boy, why don't you explain?
Why would God 'heal' this woman "everybody knows" but fail to heal all the little brown children half a world away?
Maybe because you don't give a rat's azz about them and neither does the rest of your church 'family'.
Here is evidence he doesn't, go read the Bible.
Before I sign off, I would like to leave this answer for Answer and Tom Tom: Love me or hate me, makes no different. As I have said before on here, our family knows this lady and her family. My Mother grew up chopping and picking cotton with her and her family here around New Madrid and Sikeston. Would you like to have this lady's name? This isnt fiction. It can be proven by the many who witnessed it. Just because you dont believe will not change anything. God bless everyyyyybody. The ol' countryboy from New Madrid Missouri is signing off for the night.
If a person can perform miracles and refuses to help others, they are at the bottom of the food chain as far as most caring people are concerned.
Yes, Missouri Boy I WOULD like her name, and her phone number, and a signed statement from a doctor that any such event ever took place. Get right on that.
wonder if Chaz Bono is a member.
What if God was one of us,
Just a slob like one of us.
That is one thing the religious fools will never admit to. How can their 'god' be any less than "perfect" is their perpetual excuse for a non existent being.
If everything in holy books were misunderstood technologies of extraterrestrials that visited us thousands of years ago, then we are part gods and we can do anything!
If there is no response to the opinion that I voiced that "god must be perfect" then those who are religious are really failures at defending their hate and stupid crap. I would like to see your religious zealot replies.
Answer, you wanna see a fool who's obviously dealing with hate and anger problems? Look in the mirror buddy,
Answer, one word for you: Jesus.
What if God was one of us. Came to us in a dirty, lowly manger among animals. Perfect. Any other questions?
You wanna see someone who's impotent? Look in the mirror yourself, bub. If you can't provide an explanation or proof, don't attempt to place the blame on those who have asked you to do so.
Just because you are angry at my posts doesn't mean that I am angry. Stop your own hate spreading you fool.
Look at your own hate and look how you are spreading it – even over the internet.
Pssst ... lighten up guys... Alanis Morissette. Geeze... sooo serious.
Sure ..look at your fake figurehead. Your kind are a perpetual joke and I love your kind for entertaining me. :)
Answer, thank you. I believe then we agree I provided a sufficient answer to your request. God is real. Your fake assertion only reveals your a priori false conclusion. :)
God gave man the computer and a penis, so it’s on baby...!!
And a computer in heaven runs on what? Magic? – right.
No, God’s will of course...
Oh really? His will is like what exactly? You know exactly everything about that "will" stuff on your god?
So funny. Go on and try again. What does it really run on?
@ Answer – Try writing in correct prose, it’s easier to understand the tripe you’re trying to convey...
You could explain your ridiculous notion of 'will' and the computer in heaven better. If you can?
Then seriously consider reducing the amount of flouride in your diet.
Unless you mistakenly think CNN stands for Christian News Network, you just negated your own point. I have NEVER gone to a religious website and berated others in their forums. However, as this is supposed to be one of the top news sites, this sort of woo mongering has no place here and fully deserves to be heckled mercilessly.
Too true a statement!!
"fully deserves to be heckled mercilessly."
It is the defacto motto that I hold. :)
Yu talks like a craka! Take yo crakababble sumwheres else! Craka!
Your slang'ism is degrading only yourself.
Exodus 14:20 Proves that god either never existed or is close to powerless.
January 7, 2012 at 8:47 pm | Report abuse |
tony, non sequitur, false by default. The verse shows God's love and power.
January 7, 2012 at 9:13 pm | Report abuse |
Actually it shows god couldn't kill the Egyptians when needed, but had to wait until after a weather event happened. Some power!!!!
tony, at least thanks for providing your reasoning this time. You might note one of the reason I gave an abrupt dismissal is along the lines of what Christopher Hitchens said – what is just asserted is just as easily dismissed.
Now your argument is because God chose to lead the Hebrews by a pillar of cloud and protect them from the Egyptians by placing Himself between them and the Egyptians, this shows He was unable to destroy the Egyptians but had to wait. This argument is false for the following reason. You only assume what God could or could not do. You assume He "could not" kill the Egyptians because He did not then but did later. One only need realize that God may have had a reason to not kill the Egyptians then. I simply assert God may have a reason. For you to claim you know God did not have a reason you would be claiming to know the mind of God. Since you don't know the mind of God, your claim fails.
Of course someone looking to argue could claim that unless I provide you with THE reason that God chose not to kill the Egyptians, He may not have had a reason. However, I don't claim to know the mind of God. I don't claim to know THE reason for it. I find it sufficient to refute you that you don't know that He didn't have a reason.
Of course I could think of reasons that would be "good enough" to specifically prove you wrong. Perhaps God wanted to leave a particularly lasting impression on the Jews by having the water rush back on the Egyptians in the Red Sea. Perhaps God even had a symbolic reason private to Himself for the Red Sea being the place the Egyptians were killed. Perhaps God wanted to give the Egyptians more time to repent and turn back and not be killed. Perhaps God wanted to limit the amount of His own supernatural intervention to just those things He chose. In fact I would say the very possibility of any of those reasons existing proves you wrong. But I want to make clear and go on record that I don't know that any of those are God's reason at all. Nor do I have to. Perhaps it is simply through my faith in God that I know He can have reasons that I don't know. And then hence by my faith I come to the logic to refute your logic – you simply assume you know God didn't have a reason, but you don't know the mind of God. So you don't know. Your assumption is false. God could have a very valid reason.
Thank you for the discussion. God bless you.
The usual "god moves in mysterious ways" refutation. "Mere man can't understand his superior mind". i.e. you can't think of a good answer, but patronizing me might work? Of course any sort of actual god wouldn't mess about for an extra day. Particularly since no Egyptians were left as witnesses on the second "drowning" day. Levitation of a few thousand primitives and making the tablets permanent, with auto translation into the future languages of those viewing, would be a cinch and far more impressive.
tony, you base your premise on the very argument that you do know the mind of God. You are basing the claim that He "could not" have done something on the absolute assumption that there could be no valid reason for HIm to do it any other way. For you to know there could be no valid reason for Him to do it any other way, you have to know He had no such reason in His mind. You are claiming to know as well as God. Of course you are going to hear the response back to you that you don't know the mind of God when you base a false argument on the premise that you know the mind of God. It's a logical refutation, and it's a solid one. You lose, and frankly, you know you're kind of being a punk, right? I mean you know you don't know the mind of God and you know it would be ludicrous for you to pick up a bible, read a verse, and refute what the Jews have also read and countless rabbis have studied just by saying oh God couldn't have been powerful see because He didn't kill the Egyptians right there and then. Right? I mean I think you know that was a really, really weak argument. Now I took my time to respond to you. I don't mean to patronize you, sorry if there was a better way I could have responded. But let's put this one to rest shall we? If you still really believe you have such an incredibly powerful mind that you can know God couldn't possibly have any reason for the way things happened and because you say so it should have happened another way and therefore you know God is not powerful, if that's what you really believe, then we agree to disagree. But suffice it to say I have given you a thoughtful and logical refutation for what I think you ought to know was not a very strong argument from the get go. I don't mind the discussion but I'm really not going to go back and forth no and do a "no, I'm right" kind of deal. Ok?
Well, my take would be that it makes more sense for people with like beliefs to look for a future spouse among themselves. And since the Bible discourages people from yoking themselves to others who don't share their beliefs or values, this makes sense. So in a sense it seems perfectly valid for Christians to think that "God's match for you" would be found among other Christians. But there are certainly other ways it can happen. My spouse & I met after years of fruitless searching on my part & several unhappy relationships on the part of my spouse, immediately after the first time I told God in prayer the kind of person I needed. It happened thru a series of "coincidences" where both of us did several things we did not normally do, at a time of day that was unusual for both of us, all of which came together to cause us to meet – otherwise we never would have been in that place at that time. To me, God's hand in that was very evident.
It's difficult for some to understand but just as you have an unwavering believe in Jesus and Christianity, I have an unwavering believe that does not include Jesus or Christianity. Did I ask for a spiritual awakening to happen to me? Nope I did not, it just sort of evolved over time. Just as some Christians I know have a deepening faith over time, I have a deeper faith in my beliefs. Why can't we all just respect one another. If there is a vindictive GOD waiting to punish me, I'm ready to confront that. But you see, no matter how often I've sought Jesus and read the Bible it just doesn't speak to me and as often as I have prayed for simple faith, it's just not there. Do I think that there is such a thing as a soul mate, yes I do, I've had the good fortune to be with mine for 41 years. Perhaps I should have been Jewish!
OK, now I see why there are only 144000 going to be in paradise at the end :) good! none of you want to believe that there is a God or a God's will. Fine with me. Just don't complain that Christians say that you cannot get into paradise! either you beleive or you don't! stop complaing already.
By the way, all you idiotic bashers of Christians, there is a reason why the Imam said "there is no such thing as a soul mate".. According to Islam, a woman does not have a soul!
and – Hindus, of couse everything is predestined, so that even their incarnated Gods incarnate along with their consorts.
So now, get back to bashing Christians – that is all you learned after age 16 when you realized that you know everything in the universe. O wait, how does matter get mass? Noone? throw in some theories? if that fails another one?
So people who don't know how things are in reality (or what reality is) trying to find fault with people who atleast have a belief that there
The funny thing is... if there are 144000 people going to be admitted into heaven, I practically guarantee YOU will not be one of them. Not that you aren't a good human, but you actually think that out of all the religious people in the history of the world, you will be chosen? I find it so funny... there are thousands of religions in the world all claiming to be "the one." Ya, that's reality.
But that is not the non-christians idea of paradise to begin with so what makes you think anyone but people who have been sold and bought into this fantastical and fanatical belief would want to go there? And furthermore, if you don't care, then don't expound. Keep your mouth shut, don't pray in public and make sure you are visiting people in prison often. This is what the bible says you should do! Do it!
I think the thing that bothers me is when a person, who is already married, suddenly divorces and uses the excuse, I found my soulmate. If this is a Christian, this is even more perplexing. God doesn't lead people to do things that are contrary to the Bible. As my pastor has said, "If you are married, you are married to the right person." As for me, the word divorce as it relates to marriage, is not in my vocabulary.
Everything is God's fault.
rochdoc, I disagree, do you blame your (human) parents for your actions? They brought you into this world. You could claim you didn't ask to be here and it was "their fault." In this example, wouldn't you agree you can't blame your parents after you know and are capable of doing better? Is it really their fault if you knowingly commit a crime? Did they cause you to do it? Similarly I would say if God created you and gave you free will, explained to you what He wanted of you, and took the time and effort to make sure you were capable of making thoughtful, informed choices and willfully, deliberately chose otherwise, a strong, solid case could be made that this is entirely your fault.
And actually, I could as easily say God is not to blame for anything. He is perfect and sinless. Really everything is not God's fault.
God is a loving a creator, and indeed He tells us in the bible He gave us His only Son so that we might be saved. He forgives us our sins, rochdoc. So even when it's our fault, He takes the punishment.
We don't get free will. Anyone murdered while still young, never gets to exercise free will.
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