Early Monday morning, the top item on Google Trends hot searches is John 3 16, the passage from the bible that reads:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
The number two and three searched terms on Google? Tebow and Tim Tebow.
In the begining......Or onces upon a time....A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....
Tebows numbers are that...Just numbers...We can assign different meanings to numbers thats what Humans do..S&P just assigned a different credit rating for the entire Nation of France...Based upon ...Thats right numbers...If we look for Biblical meaning in just numbers Christians might come upon things they would rather NOT know...Like the NFL plays most of its gave on 7th day day of the Georgian calender...Gods day or the Day of rest...History recent history has shown the Church in general has frowned upon the NFL for pulling families apart on Gods day...Now the Church had jumped on the NFL bandwagon...What about Tebows jersey number....15...What hidden Biblical number is that...5 and one is SIX...if TeBow throws two touchdown passes in a game...thats 6...6...and the sum of his jersy.....wow thats 666....Hummmmm you see..We can go ANYWHERE with Biblical numbers.....
It my Hope The Broncos have a great game on Saturday Night...I hope they win...But it's not just TEBOW on the feild..Football is A TEAM SPORT...and there are alot of NUMBERS flying around .....Be care ful what you assign to what and why..Tim Tebow...is fun to watch...and the Broncos scoring touchdowns is even better....Lets keep Mr. Tebow in prespective...He's a Rookie Quarterback in the NFL...On his personel side he's a practicing Christian...Im all for it...But to place divine provedance upon one man when the Game is a TEAM Sport..is kinda like saying God needed Moses and Aron there to Part the RED SEA.....Number 15 is a great Role Model...he's a nice guy...he has wild style at QB and is also a Christian.....Take it for WHAT IT IS...Stop trying to MAKE IT FIT into somthing other than what it is....Tim Tebow is a all American type Q.B. .....
NFL can censor eye black but not God!
>>>”Christians haven't been in the closet, and are just now trying to peek out into the world and try to get accepted.”
The sad thing is that in history Christians have been persecuted. In countries today, there are Christians who are suffering because of their Faith. Ever heard of Christians being thrown to the Lions.
The interesting thing you need to ask yourself is that if we did take your flawed view that Christians “haven't been in the closet” then is your solution is that we should be in the closet concerning expressing our Faith? After witnessing groups come “out of the closet” do you think that any groups , secular or Faithful would voluntarily go “into a closet” now?
Would that be the same as a Native American telling a White American that to be fair that they should give up their lands and suffer the same as their ancestors?
>>>”They have been dominating western society for centuries, persecuting those that don't agree with them.”
Welcome to the world EnjaySea. This happens around the entire planet. It is not just found in the Christian west. We could argue the Caste system in India. Ever hug a Dalit lately? Military and Secular tyrants. Try this, do you think the Ja'panese that are living there now are the original inhabitants of those islands?
>>>I don't apologize for, nor will I ever stop challenging them, now that I no longer have to fear being imprisoned or burned at the stake for disagreeing with them. I don't have to lay down and submit to their constant bombardment in the media and in the public square just because that might hurt their feelings."
EnjaySea, I do understand your feelings but is TeBow bowing to silently pray the same infraction to you as the Salem Witch Trials (1692) or the Spanish Inquisition (12th Century)? The man is not even requesting that his entire squad hold hands and pray on the 50 yard line. EnjaySea, I have cousins and relatives that went through the persecution of African Americans during the Jim Crow laws... Some of them still want to strike back at every White person that they encounter today for wrongs that were done to them in the past. Many of them have moved beyond this type of hate that you are exhibiting.
>>>”In fact it is the Christians themselves who are the ones persecuting the Gay and Lesbian community.”
Here yah go EnjaySea..... ”http://www.gaychurch.org/” and a simple pic from the NewYork Times.
So, when you say that Christians, themselves, are persecuting the Gay and Lesbian community... How do you address those Christians who are Gay and Lesbians? When faced with Gay Bishops and Ministers... does your “fact” still hold up?
You see that is why hatred sounds the same.... just listen to them.... The Whites and persecuting the African American Community. The Jews are persecuting the Palestinians. The West is persecuting the Middle East...etc etc...
In the end EnjaySea... it is simple mathematics or science. When you say that “Christians ..are persecuting Gays and Lesbians”....
...all I need to prove you false are Gay and Lesbian Christians. :)
Only for the "newbies":
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher man would do or say?
Except for the passages that clearly say "and he read the scroll" and "taught as one who had authority" your comments would then make sense
And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,
"Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "
What about the Gospel of Matthew?
Or Luke's investigative reports for the king?
I believe that bad times and things happen because of the sin in the world. Now you might ask, "Why not get rid of sin?", this is where free will comes in. God loves us so much that he is willing to let us make the choice for ourself, become corrupted by the ways of the world (sin) , or live as it is outlined in the bible. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Greg, how is that such a generous "gift", given that a "god" could just create itself another son any time it felt like it. As for etenral life, why not just give us that from the get go, given that god is supposed to be willing to forgive anything anyway.
I also recognize that bad things happen because people do bad things. We agree on that. What I find troubling is the theological notion that your deity can be credited for good works, but when it comes to bad things happening, that's all on us, that's all because of this "free will" clause, which basically allows the faithful to opt god out of any blame for anything. I find that to be contrived, somewhat overly convenient, and notably, a very human construct, invented by man to justify the obvious flaws in their theogical view.
As for your god giving his son to us. This is another human notion, invented by John 60 years after the death of his mentor; the christians' favorite saying, and the one saying that makes the least sense. If a god exists and he needed to make a point, or somehow bestow grace upon us by spawing a son, sending him to earth, then callously allowing him to be slaughtered by an angry mob, then frankly, I question his sanity.
If he is as clever as your theology paints him, he should certainly have been able to devise a more efficient way of accomplishing the same thing. So he's either not clever, very clever but quite clumsy, or doesn't exist. As you might have guessed, I'm leaning towards the latter.
(from Professor JD Crossan's book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)
"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."
"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."
"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."
@Mark, here's where your example differs. Christians haven't been in the closet, and are just now trying to peek out into the world and try to get accepted.
They have been dominating western society for centuries, persecuting those that don't agree with them. I don't apologize for, nor will I ever stop challenging them, now that I no longer have to fear being imprisoned or burned at the stake for disagreeing with them. I don't have to lay down and submit to their constant bombardment in the media and in the public square just because that might hurt their feelings.
In fact it is the christians themselves who are the ones persecuting the Gay and Lesbian community. Comparing them to those that they persecute is fantastically ridiculous.
Isn't his 15 minutes over yet?
*sigh* Nope. He managed to buy at least another 60 minutes next week.
and Good Grief if he defeats New England.... his 15 minutes will go on longer if he loses the next or not. He and his team just slew Goliath now the Broncos are going for Goliath's kin.
Athiests will stop at nothing to tear people down. Does Tim Tebow's faith make you that uncomfortable that you feel you have to rip him apart. What is funny, is that if he actually read any of this, he would probably pray for you and wish you the best. Wow, if only we were all that selfless and cared about others more than ourselves...what a world this could be.
If Tim Tebow kept his faith to himself, then there would be no comments about it, for or against. He has made the choice to broadcast his faith to the world, and since the world no longer rolls over and plays dead any time a christian speaks, but is instead now allowed to challenge those assertions in public without fear of persecution, the floodgates have been open, and Tebow must understand that some of the bread he casts upon the water is going to come back toasted.
Yeah – if we were all that selfless. Exactly – what does a 2,000 year old book and a dogmatic organized religion have to do with being selfless? And I wouldn't be so quick to label us Atheists. We are realists. If some giant old man in the sky came down and started casting fireballs and lightining bolts at me.....yeah I might have to believe in him. But until then, who gives a damn. Live life, be good, and realize that it is a gift. When you die, you can deal with the afterlife BS.
>>>"If Tim Tebow kept his faith to himself, then there would be no comments about it, for or against. "
Hmm....wasn't that the same thing folks said about the Gay and Lesbian community? Kept your relationships in the bedroom away from society? Do not hold hands or kiss ... Do you see how you are just echoing all the groups in history that wish hold down and limit others in society. Right now ones who say such are no different from the Rev Terry Jones and 700 club types on the Christian side and the Bin Ladens on the Muslim side.
Goodness....how hateful people always sound exactly the same no matter which side they are on.
Thanks for your input @Mark. My response is out in the main thread.
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