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Survey: U.S. Mormons feel discrimination, hope
The Mormon temple at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah.
January 12th, 2012
12:01 AM ET

Survey: U.S. Mormons feel discrimination, hope

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) – Nearly half of American Mormons say they face a lot of discrimination in the United States, though most also say that acceptance of their religion is on the rise, according to a major survey released Thursday.

The survey also found that a large majority of American Mormons think their countrymen are uninformed about their religion and don’t see Mormons as part of mainstream society, even as most Mormons also say the country is ready for a Mormon president.

“The survey creates a mixed picture for how Mormons see themselves,” said Greg Smith, senior researcher with the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, which conducted the study. “On the one hand, many tell us they’re misunderstood and often discriminated against, recognizing the challenges of acceptance.

“But Mormons also seem to think that things are changing, that more Americans are coming to see Mormonism as mainstream,” he said.

The survey comes amid what has been called a “Mormon moment.”

Two of the Republican presidential candidates – Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman – attend the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The religion has also cropped up in big ways in popular culture, from the hit Broadway play “Book of Mormon” to the recent HBO series “Big Love,” about a fundamentalist Mormon family.

Mormons constitute about 2% of the American population.

The Pew survey found that 46% of American Mormons say they face a lot of discrimination in the U.S. today, while six in 10 say their fellow Americans as a whole are uninformed about the LDS Church.

Two-thirds of Mormons say their fellow citizens do not view Mormonism as part of mainstream American society.

At the same time, 63% of Mormons say Americans are “becoming more likely to see Mormonism as part of mainstream society,” in the words of the survey report, while 56% say the country is ready for a Mormon president.

There are some surprising parallels between how Mormons feel about their place in American society and how Muslims do, according to an earlier Pew survey.

"We do see a remarkable degree of similarity about what it's like to be a minority in society," Smith said. "They are under no illusions" about how the broader public currently feels about them, and know their religions are not widely understood, but they remain optimistic at heart, he said.

They recognize the challenges, "but both groups are relentlessly positive about their future in the United States," said Luis Lugo, the director of the Pew Forum.

As Romney’s and Huntsman’s ability to win evangelical votes in the approaching South Carolina presidential primary has become a major question in the presidential campaign, the Pew survey finds that half of Mormons believe that evangelical Christians are unfriendly toward them.

In fact, Mormon and evangelical political opinions match closely on almost everything except immigration, the survey found. (Mormons are much more likely than evangelicals or the U.S. population overall to see immigrants as making a positive contribution to society, said David Campbell of the University of Notre Dame, who helped advise the Pew Forum on the survey.)

Mormons also subscribe to key tenets of mainstream Christianity, despite the sense many evangelicals have that Mormons are not Christians. Previous Pew surveys show that about half of white evangelicals say Mormonism is not a Christian faith.

"Nearly all Mormons say they believe Jesus rose from the dead and that Mormonism is a Christian religion," Smith said.

But the Mormon-evangelical divide is not simply one of theology, a leading evangelical said.

"Evangelicals are - famously or infamously, depending on your perspective - very evangelistic," said Richard Land  of the Southern Baptist Convention. "And so Mormons are out there going door-to-door trying to convince folks  to become Mormons, and evangelicals are out there going door-to-door trying to convince people to become evangelicals."

By comparison, most Mormons said that Americans who are not religious are either neutral or friendly toward them.

Mormons and evangelicals are politically similar, the survey found, with three-quarters of Mormons saying they identify with or lean toward the Republican Party.

And the survey showed that Mormons are more devout in their faith than evangelicals, who are more devout that the public at large.

Three-quarters of Mormons report attending religious services at least weekly, while eight in 10 pray daily and give 10% of their income to their church.

The Pew Forum says the nationwide survey, conducted in October and November, constitutes the biggest survey of American Mormons conducted by an organization that’s not connected to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Pew surveyed 1,019 self-identified Mormons for the project.

CNN's Richard Allen Greene and Emma Lacey-Bordeaux contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Mormonism • Politics • Polls

soundoff (1,639 Responses)
  1. K

    I was in that cult as a teen. They are taught to feel persecuted, afterall, if you die for the church, you go straight to heaven as a martyr.

    January 15, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • rickjana

      WOA. I attended the same church as a youth but got a completely different message! mormon.org

      January 15, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Dave

      That's funny – I never heard that and I've been a member all my life. I'm glad there are so many experts on my faith!

      January 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
  2. katone216

    Mr. Gilgoff, in response to the statement in your article "The religion has also cropped up in big ways in popular culture, from the hit Broadway play “Book of Mormon” to the recent HBO series “Big Love,” about a fundamentalist Mormon family". I can see why the members of the 'Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints' feel like they are miss understood. How can normal everyday people understand when even the News gets it wrong. The HBO series "Big Love" is associated with the 'Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) Church' NOT 'The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saint' religion. It's like calling the Lutherans Catholics. Just because they started out that way doesn't mean they still are.

    January 15, 2012 at 10:00 am |
  3. cologneami

    Better a Jew in the White House, than a Moran...errr Mormon if you ask me.

    January 15, 2012 at 9:14 am |
  4. HellBent

    "I wish everyone could understand that you don't have to accept the sin to accept the sinner (which all of us are, in one way or another.)"

    Kind of like you don't have to accept divorce, but you should go on a personal crusade to tell divorcees their going to hell while simultaneously trying to ban divorces.

    January 15, 2012 at 3:41 am |
    • Staitpath

      Apparently, the statement you quoted from alkarrk's was meant to rebut the statement of Dan that says and I quote, "You cannot claim discrimination if you discriminate yourself."

      I think the message that alkarrk was trying to relay was, condemning against the act doesn't necessarily or automatically condemns the person.

      Being gay is NOT a choice, divorce IS. Time for you to find a better an.alogy before finding yourself stepping on the wrong foot.

      January 15, 2012 at 4:47 am |
  5. lebowski1776

    Mormons are the new Muslim. God Bless the GOP.

    January 15, 2012 at 3:02 am |
  6. Ozymandias71

    I'm sure all the Gay and Lesbian Californians who were stripped of their marriage rights by the Mormon-funded Prop H8 feel just *awful* about how persecuted Mormons feel... yeah, sure. /eyeroll

    January 15, 2012 at 3:00 am |
    • CrazyAtes1983

      Maybe those Gays and Lesbians in California should have looked a little more closely at what other religious groups funded that bill (i.e. Catholics, evangelicals).

      January 15, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  7. Geebus

    Maybe because most Americans can not stand the fact that Mormons believe in nonsense that was started by Joseph Smith who was a scam artist before supposedly being visited by an angel that told him to dig up golden plates in his back yard and was told he could marry as many women as he wanted. I thought Trey Parker and Matt Stone went to far with their Mormon episode on South Park until I watched a PBS special that was exactly the same story on how the Mormon chruch was started LOL. Now I wonder how anyone in their right mind can be so gullible. Though Gleen Beck a member of LDS proved to me they are not in their right mind. To be honest though I don't see how anyone who believes in religion could be so gullible, it's not just them for me.

    January 15, 2012 at 1:29 am |
  8. g.c.kells

    Boo Hoo. Everybody on this planet is discriminated against, and the discrimination usually goes both ways. Ask those same Mormons what they think about Catholics, or worse Atheists. We all have to deal with the fact that no matter what we believe, someone thinks we are horrible for it

    January 15, 2012 at 1:02 am |
  9. Dzerres

    Mormons feel discriminated against? Please. Have you ever lived in Utah? If you're not LDS in Utah you ARE discriminated at every turn. So its karma – too bad.

    January 15, 2012 at 12:50 am |
    • Dave

      If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt you), then we would ask for your forgiveness. We are also in need of the grace of God.

      January 28, 2012 at 10:34 pm |
  10. Jason

    In reading through the comments on this board, it is not very hard to see why many mormons feel discriminated against. Why can't we just allow mormons to believe what they want to believe. We should judge people based on their character and not what their religious beliefs are.

    January 15, 2012 at 12:17 am |
  11. Doug B.

    I've known some mormons and they know how to party! I've heard of newly promoted bicycle jockey's stripping naked and chasing their unsoiled girlfriends around the apartment looking for graduation gratuities. And, I had a boss that couldn't keep secretaries due to the suggestive influence. Not to mention the churches philosophy of giving funds to higher level patrons to start up business's and endeavors. I know this because I was dating within the higher echelon and was inside the circle!

    January 14, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
  12. Logic

    I do not understand why people don't let other people believe what they want to believe. If you don't believe the same thing, THEN FINE. You aren't being forced to believe. Oh, the IGNORANCE of people who think they know better.

    January 14, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
  13. Christina

    It doesn't matter 90% of the human race are going to Hell anyway. Where there is no life, no food, no water, where the damned can't speak, can't sleep, cant breath, They will wish they could come back to Earth and warn everyone of the treacherous endless beatings, an grief. So many Celebrities, Popes, Iconic People are in Hell because they were strangers to Christ. Just like any of us God doesn't allow strangers in his home. And it isn't enough just being a Good Person nor Good President. It wont Matter

    January 14, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • g.c.kells

      I don't know about 90%, but I do know all the cool kids are going to hell. The description you give is nowhere in the Bible though.

      January 15, 2012 at 1:12 am |
    • Mirosal

      Only about 20% of the world is "christian" .. so, just to be clear .. the 80% who are not are condemned already. Yeah, mighty bigoted (and rather X-tian) of you. We're all going to the same place .. six feet under in a box. Deal with it

      January 15, 2012 at 1:24 am |
    • HellBent

      Christina,

      I would never worship the tyrant monster that you do. I think the evil being that you bow down to would make even Machiavellie cringe.

      January 15, 2012 at 3:14 am |
    • Mirosal

      ANY 'being' who commands that you worship, praise, exhault, and obey 'it' is not worthy of any of the aforementioned things.

      January 15, 2012 at 3:23 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      "Only about 20% of the world is "christian" .. so, just to be clear .. the 80% who are not are condemned already"

      @Mirosal

      Can't you get your facts straight? Or at least cease lying. You only show us all here what a TYPICAL atheist is. You're just a waste of space on this blog.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:16 am |
    • Mirosal

      7 billion people .. 1.5 billion christian .. that's 21.5%

      January 15, 2012 at 5:20 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      So you're trying to support your lies with your brilliant calculation than a giving link of a much reliable source? Nice Try.....

      But try harder.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:42 am |
    • Mirosal

      1 billion plus in India (not X-tian) ... 1 billion plus in China (not X-tian) ... 1 billion Muslim... that's almost half the world right there. In the world's population, X-tian is a minority.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:46 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      You are free to try harder and spout further claims. BUT...until you presented here a link of a realiable source with testable pertinent data and figures, you are yet considered LYING and that makes you a LIAR still.

      But wait...let me commend your skills in calculating figures. You must be a mathematician, sta.tistician or an accountant. Then, you should know what percentage is considered "material" and "immaterial" when it comes to 9-zero figures.

      January 15, 2012 at 6:17 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      Mirosal's number's are slightly off. It is more like 2.1 billion, equating to about 33% overall (any google search will give you this answer). You can find this stat at http://exchristian.net/pics/worldreligions.html. It also lists the fact that secular beliefs make up approximately 19% and it lists other religions.

      @Mirosal: Sorry...I usually don't correct you but they did want a source.

      January 16, 2012 at 5:39 am |
    • Mirosal

      none taken m'lady ... I cannot access sources at work internet, so all I had were rough figures from memory. Like any true person of science, if you can provide the facts, we'll llisten. Trouble is, there is not ONE fact in religion, starting with a deity of ANY kind. Science loves questions .. for some reason, religion HATES them.. gee I wonder why? lol

      January 16, 2012 at 5:49 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      @Truth Prevails

      Let me commend you for acting by your moniker despite the hard fact of incriminating your buddy (Mirosal).

      But don't be sorry for what you did, she/he/it should be thanking you instead, you actually just save his/her/its ass.

      The last time I checked, the non-believers (agnostics, atheists, etc.) comprise only 16% of the world's populace. But I will not argue with your (19%) figure, the (3%) difference is slightly immaterial.

      But do you really think that 600,000,000 difference is "slightly off"?

      Again, the last time I checked, atheists make up only 2% of all Non-believers. That will be 2% out of 16% or let us say 19% of 7 billion. For sure Mirosal could help you in calculation, he's/she's/it's good at it.

      If you consider 600 million a "slight" difference (when it's more or less 9% of the world's populace), what would you call the 2% of Non-believers?

      Honest answer pls.....

      @Mirosal

      Nice alibi but not quite. Your lol is NOT substantial to hide you LIES.

      January 17, 2012 at 5:46 am |
    • Mirosal

      Where are the facts about your 'god'? .. also provide facts related to the thousands of other gods throughout human history.

      January 17, 2012 at 5:50 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      @Mirosal

      Ey, comrade! divertionary tactic, eh?

      January 17, 2012 at 5:58 am |
    • Mirosal

      That "lol" you refer to was more of a sneer, because religion opposes any questions, such as "Why?". You seem to think I am lying about something, but a belief in a deity is the biggest scam on the planet.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:00 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      TRY HARDER, buddy!

      January 17, 2012 at 6:12 am |
    • Mirosal

      About what, troll?

      January 17, 2012 at 6:16 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      Ok let's set things straight. I hope you bear with me that you may see the difference.

      The belief that you considered "the biggest scam on the planet" is not proven yet. In fact, such thought has been strongly opposed by at least 80% of the earth's populace. It's an on-going debate.

      But, I mean BUT.....your attempt of distorting facts and figures to bend them at your side that you may go on to further your agenda is as clear as a high noon. It's a BLATANT LIE! And you've been indiscriminately doing it on here.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:28 am |
    • Mirosal

      You are correct about one thing. The "biggest scam on the planet", religion, has NOT ben proven, yet 80% of people fall for it. They are indoctrinated from birth, by their parents, and are told "these are the answers, do not question them, or you'll get punished". That isn't religion. It's coersion. So why are your panties in a twist because I have the gall to ask somebody, anybody, to show me something, when not one person out of the billions that have lived now or before me have been able to do.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:35 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      "About what, troll?"

      What a TYPICAL way for atheists to win a debate.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:37 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      You know what? What I heard was only "Demolition Team". Is there "Distortion Team" in the military?

      Should there be any, it's either you're the one founded it or you're its great team leader.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:49 am |
    • Mirosal

      What are you babbling about?

      January 17, 2012 at 6:51 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      Not it isn't, it's because you have the gall......the liver.....the lungs and...............most specially the thick skin to spew your BLATANT LIES here.

      And FYI.. I don't wear panties...and brief either. LOL!

      You really make laugh.

      January 17, 2012 at 6:59 am |
    • Mirosal

      What does "No, it isn't". referring to?

      January 17, 2012 at 7:10 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      It was about "Why panties in a twist", remember? Memory gap attack?

      January 17, 2012 at 7:23 am |
    • Mirosal

      That was 6 posts ago and almost an hour has passed since then, and I get busy. Unlike you, I am not collecting welfare checks for mental disability. I am actually at work now, earning my money.

      January 17, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      Oh, it's been a while. Been engaged in an urgent meeting with BODs then went right straight home spent and quality time with my family.

      Oh, man! You mean you tend to forget something you've said for less than an hour? That's god damn serious!

      Good to know you are still working. Lucky for you to have an employer who allows a worker with severe alzheimer's.

      January 18, 2012 at 7:20 am |
  14. Bill Edelman

    I have no quarrel with Romney because of his religion. In fact, from what I've seen, he's a pretty lousy Mormon. My quarrel with Romney isn't because he's a lousy Mormon, either; it's because he's a lousy human being.

    January 14, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Sanappyuppie

      You're noted. It's meal time, go get your welfare coupon.

      January 16, 2012 at 4:20 am |
  15. Bob Moore

    LDS SHEEPISHLY FLOCK TO MITT, even though Huntsman was a Utah Governor with >90% approval, BECAUSE HUNTSMAN SUPPORTS CIVIL UNIONS AND MEDICAL CANNABIS...

    ironic that the religion in which polygamy whose fundamental issue is polygamy, would oppose civil unions...

    January 14, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • katone216

      Mr. Moore, you might want to Google the difference between the FLDS church and 'The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints' It's like saying the Lutherans are the same as the Catholics.

      January 15, 2012 at 10:08 am |
  16. welll

    Yes, the Church was a major donor but as the only true church, don't they have a right to make political donations to fight for laws that support their religious beliefs? If corporations are people, aren't churches too?

    January 14, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • Brad

      If churches are people, then they are people with some obvious special privileges – regarding taxes, for example.

      January 14, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • Mirosal

      They are NOT the only "true church". Only your arrogance would even think that YOURS is the "right" one. There is NO true church, because there is no true religion, and there never has been one. And, NO, a church CANNOT make any donations to any poltical cause or candidate, as this would be in direct violation of the tax-exempt laws. If they donate, they run the risk of having to pay taxes, losing their exempt status, and the Moron (sic) church owns a LOT of property. When the churches start paying their fair share, instead of getting a free ride, then they might be in a position to express their views on how gov't is run and how taxes are spent. Until then, they need to STFU and deal with the fact that the bible, qu'ran, book of mormom, etc. etc. do NOT form the basis for laws in this country.

      January 16, 2012 at 4:33 am |
  17. ohsnap

    Somehow, I find it hard to find any sympathy for Mormons who, until fairly recently, wouldn't let blacks hold a position in their church. Discrimination? Ha, how does it feel?

    January 14, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • welll

      "Fairly recently" was 34 years ago! In 1978, the living prophet of the Church, praying together with other Church leaders, received a revelation directly from God that any honorable man could hold the priesthood in their church, regardless of race or color. It has been a generation since then, and many members are not even aware of the previous position of the Church.

      January 14, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • alkarrk

      Unlike Evangelical churches back in the 60s and 70s, the LDS church did not have segregated congregations. When the revelation came that all worthy male members could hold the Priesthood, everyone rejoiced. It was the first time this had ever happened (back in Biblical times only the sons of Levi–one of the 12 tribes of Israel–were given the responsibility of administering ordinances of the Priesthood). It has nothing to do with who is "better" LDS believe that we are all equal in God's sight, male and female (who also do not hold priesthood responsibilities), black and white, Jew and Gentile.

      January 14, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • Puzzled

      Jew and Gentile? Say more.

      January 14, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Bizarre

      welll, "the living prophet of the Church, praying together with other Church leaders, received a revelation directly from God"

      Oh, Pleeeeeeaze...! You can type that with a straight face?!

      January 14, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • ringo

      @allkark, this is fascinating. Are you saying that female descendents of Levi, who one might expect to still exist in the present day, do not hold priesthood responsibilities according to the beliefs of Mormonism?

      January 14, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
    • alta

      When Church LEADERS of any faith interfere with politics and take control over our Government, by putting in Their person
      or Puppet, Then I think Churches should be Taxed. There is a big difference between Leaders and the people. No connection at all.

      w

      January 15, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • centerpoint

      Just read 2 Nephi 5:21 (passim Mormon, Alma 1-3 Nephi) and see the perspective of the LDS scriptures: white = good, black = curse. And no this is not simply walk in the light don't walk in the darkness sort of ethical stuff, it is very clearly racial and race based. Also Brigham Young's Journal of Discourses (2nd LDS president) is rife with extremely racist "prophecies" (e.g. B Young, Journal of Discourses, 7:240-241 et al) that directly contradict what the 1978 president prophesied regarding admission to the priesthood. If both of these were true prophets, wouldn't they have gotten it right the first time? So who got it wrong, the prophets or their god?

      January 15, 2012 at 1:52 am |
    • basso

      alta said:

      "When Church LEADERS of any faith interfere with politics and take control over our Government, by putting in Their person
      or Puppet, Then I think Churches should be Taxed."

      I wonder how could a sane person makes a terribly nonsensical comment as that?

      January 15, 2012 at 5:36 am |
    • Mirosal

      Because under tax codes for a 501(c) tax-exempt body, it is against federal law to endorse or oppose ANY candidate for ANY public office, from the President to the city dog-catcher. To do so could remove them from tax-exempt status.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:42 am |
    • CW

      All are equal in the church except for gays. But I think that's a majority of Christian based religions 😛

      January 15, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • Matt

      I served my LDS mission in the Caribbean. Try and tell me we don't want blacks in the church.

      January 16, 2012 at 12:07 am |
    • Dave

      Centerpoint should read 2 Nephi 26:33 to get a little more understanding of God's equal view of blacks and white in my church.

      January 28, 2012 at 10:37 pm |
  18. DB

    Any Vote not for Ron Paul is a GOP vote for re-election of President Obama. Mitt Romney doesn’t have what it takes and the rest didn’t even make the first cut.

    January 14, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
  19. dreamer96

    I have known many Mormons that were great people.....this is more about Mitt Romney and how his uses his religion in one hand but acts in another way....What we say...what we do...and what we actually are thinking, the real reason behind why we say, and do, the things we say, and do...that is how I believe we will be judged if there is any God at all...so

    Mitt Romney Private Equity,Venture Capitalist/ = Gordon Gekko Vulture Capitalist

    Google "Gordon Gekko" and find out the many reasons why...

    Yes a fictional movie character, which was based on a real person, and bears the same qualities as many real people on Wall Street.... raiding companies that are in trouble and have large worker's pensions...is a practice known to Wall Street and there are plenty of examples.

    January 14, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
  20. Dan

    Wasn't the Mormon Church a major donor and/or leader against gay marriage in California? You cannot claim discrimination if you discriminate yourself.

    January 14, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
    • alkarrk

      Yes, LDS people were encouraged to donate and fight against gay marriage in California. The LDS view is that we are all equal in God's sight, gay and straight, but that God has ordained marriage between a man and woman. In standing up to protect marriage, they feel they are also protecting their first amendment right to freedom of religion. If gay marriage was legal, the rights of churches to NOT perform them could be infringed upon.

      That being said, as an LDS woman, I do feel that many members of my church have a long way to go in being loving and accepting of people who are gay. I wish everyone could understand that you don't have to accept the sin to accept the sinner (which all of us are, in one way or another.)

      January 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • Brad

      alkarrk:

      From what we've seen of the Supreme Court recently it seems likely that the First Amendment would protect any church that did not want to perform a marriage between a same-se.x couple, or any couple for any reason, really.

      January 14, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • Sanity

      Blacks also voted against the bill. People never seem to bring that up. Odd.

      January 14, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
    • Ozymandias71

      alkarrk – Your argument is nonsense for one very specific reason... the Gay Marriage ruling already allowed churches who disagreed with Marriage Equality to NOT MARRY Gay and Lesbian citizens. That, naturally, was lost in the hysterical 'Gays will destroy marriage (but don't ask us how 'cause we don't know)!!'

      January 15, 2012 at 2:58 am |
    • Mirosal

      Since they were encouraged to fight and DONATE to a political cause, I think your tax-exempt staus should be taken away. Churches have NO say and can only contribute as a private citizen, not as part of a congregation. What would the Moron (sic) church do if they suddenly had to pay millions in taxes on the properties it owns througout the US?

      January 15, 2012 at 3:17 am |
    • myklds

      "I wish everyone could understand that you don't have to accept the sin to accept the sinner (which all of us are, in one way or another.)"

      @alkarrk

      Very well said. I just wish everybody has (even) an inch of common sense to distinguish the difference and grasp what it means.

      January 15, 2012 at 3:35 am |
    • HellBent

      "I wish everyone could understand that you don't have to accept the sin to accept the sinner (which all of us are, in one way or another.)"

      Kind of like you don't have to accept divorce, but you should go on a personal crusade to tell divorcees their going to hell while simultaneously trying to ban divorces

      January 15, 2012 at 3:45 am |
    • Mirosal

      Civil law trumps religious "law" here. NO ONE needs any kind of church to get married. You DO need a civil marriage license. Even for a church wedding. All your Moron (sic) sect did was influence California lawmakers. That's againt the law for a non-profit, tax exempt enti'ty such as your church. Time for your quorum of 12 to start writing checks to the IRS.

      January 15, 2012 at 3:47 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      @Mirosal

      Surely I can explain to you why fighting against gay marriage is rather religious than political cause.

      But since you were the one who made the first claim that it's "political", hence, the burden of proof lies on your shoulder.

      Would you mind shedding us some lights here what made it political?

      January 15, 2012 at 3:48 am |
    • Mirosal

      a public vote, massive campaigning, and a checkbox on a ballot

      January 15, 2012 at 3:51 am |
    • Staitpath

      @HellBent

      Apparently, the statement you quoted from alkarrk's was meant to rebut the statement of Dan that says and I quote, "You cannot claim discrimination if you discriminate yourself."

      I think the message that alkarrk was trying to relay was, condemning against the act doesn't necessarily or automatically condemns the person.

      Being gay is NOT a choice, divorce IS. Time for you to find a better an.alogy before finding yourself stepping on the wrong foot.

      January 15, 2012 at 4:12 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      I see, but you must consider the reasons behind those "a public vote, massive campaigning, and a checkbox on a ballot".

      No, it wasn't political, instead, it's fighting against something political that is trying to trump something religious. But it doesn't violate the first amendment beacuse the state grants its right to do it. It's called freedom of religion and (combined with) right of suffrage.

      January 15, 2012 at 4:39 am |
    • Mirosal

      The Moron (sic) church was the biggest backer of that campaign, and its aim was to amend the State Consti'tution of California. They were using their mega-church status to get the signatures, pass out flyers, go door to door, stand outside with signs, and pay for media ads. In THIS country, civil law trumps religious law, and the Moron church decided it wanted to reverse that. This was a campaign to amend state law. If that isn't politics, tell me what is.

      January 15, 2012 at 4:44 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      "and its aim was to amend the State Consti'tution of California." = LIE!

      Truth is...Not only Mormons, but all religions who believe in the bible specifically Leviticus 20:13 are against gay marriage. Thus, the cause is religious.

      Their aim is NOT to "amend the State Consti'tution of California" as what your LIES is claiming. But if that what it takes, then so be it.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:31 am |
    • Mirosal

      it started when San Francisco started to perform gay marriages. THAT is when the churches reared up and said it was against 'god's law'. Civil law allowed it, so the city began performing them. That's when your zealots decided they want to overturn that law because of 'religious' doctrine. If your pulpit-masters would have shut up, and stayed IN the church, this whole thing would have just blown over, and it would be a non-issue today. But you and your ilk had to get out and influence civil law based on religious feelings. THAT is exactly what the Founding Fathers did NOT want to see happen.

      January 15, 2012 at 5:39 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      As what I've said, freedom of religion and (combined with) right of suffrage. Our founding fathers GRANTED both.

      And one more thing, isn't there any chance that the the separation of church and state was meant for the purpose to prevent the state from intervening religious affairs and NOT the other way around that you and your fellow non-believers are expecting?

      January 15, 2012 at 5:57 am |
    • Mirosal

      Actually you have that reversed. The Founders had seen what theocracies and religious law had done throughout Europe. They did not want religious influence in the new government for that very reason. By our own Supreme Court, freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion as well. The Sixth Article of the Consti'tution specifically states that NO religious test shall be required of ANYONE running for public office.

      January 15, 2012 at 6:04 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      Absolutely I didn't. If you could see that I did NOT make a statement but a question, for you.

      And based in your response, it is safe to presume a "no" as your answer. But your quote on "The Sixth Article" made me lil bit curious about your interpretation about what it says.

      And also, allow me to remind you that treating a quote as your own consti.tu.tes pliagiarsm.

      January 15, 2012 at 6:32 am |
    • Mirosal

      I gave full credit to the US Consti'tution and the Supreme Court. I claimed neither as my own work. To answer your question, the answer is "No, that was not the intention." The intention was to keep religion OUT of government. They set up a secular government, and as such they knew that the state would not have a say in what a church preaches. That is why the US has NO official religion. Also , tell me just where the word 'god' is mentioned in the US Consti'tution.

      January 15, 2012 at 6:39 am |
    • godmirosal

      I understand your opinion and I sincerely respect it

      But how about the Sixth Article that The Sixth Article of the Consti'tution specifically states and I quote, "NO religious test shall be required of ANYONE running for public office."

      I'm a lil bit curious why you were using it to support your own version of "freedom FROM religion".

      January 15, 2012 at 7:52 am |
    • Mirosal

      I wasn't using Article 6 to support freedom FROM religion.. that would be the Supreme Court's ruling about the First Amendment. That last sentence in Article Six means that a candidate's faith (or lack thereof) is not to be used as an issue for his/her candidacy.

      January 15, 2012 at 7:57 am |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      So what's inside those parentheses all about? Are you now saying lack of belief, religious?

      Nice try injecting phrase to further your agenda. But then again.......

      TRY HARDER, buddy!

      January 17, 2012 at 6:09 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.