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January 24th, 2012
04:28 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Tuesday, January 24

By Dan Merica, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: Jewish newspaper’s editor resigns over Obama assassination column
A Jewish newspaper owner who attracted U.S. Secret Service attention for a column suggesting that Israel consider assassinating an American president has resigned as the paper’s editor, employees there said Monday.

The 2011 Right to Life march in Washington.

CNN: My Take: Why the abortion issue won’t go away
After recently addressing a large secular assembly on issues of moral controversy, I turned and faced a woman who urgently wanted to ask me a question: “Why won’t the abortion issue just go away?”

Tweet of the Day:

From @DrDannyPenman: Is it possible to have a happy open marriage? From BBC: bbc.in/zP1vYn And the answer is.... almost certainly not.

Enlightening Reads:

Catholic News Service: Pro-lifers wear their convictions on colorful T-shirts, sweatshirts
Mark Hosbein stood on the corner of a busy Washington intersection under the steady rain Jan. 23 with a small duffle bag at his feet and a simple message for passers-by: "Please consider spiritually adopting an unborn baby who is in danger of abortion."

Arizona Central: Arizona high schools may soon offer Bible classes
Arizona's public and charter high-school students could soon earn credit for learning about the influence of the Old Testament on art or how biblical references are found throughout literature.

A now debunked survey showed Romney at historic levels of support among Jewish voters.

Huffington Post: Mitt Romney's Reported Rise In Support From Florida's Jewish Voters Appears Fabricated
A report purporting to show potentially historic levels of support from Jewish voters for Mitt Romney in a general election matchup with Barack Obama appears to be either profoundly flawed or simply fabricated.

Altmuslimah: How are Muslim women doing in political cartoon?
When it comes to Muslim women as represented in political cartoons catered to non-Muslim Western audiences, a few prevalent themes can be easily identified.The themes I mention in this post are pretty representative of many other cartoons out there, and the images included here are just a sample. Muslim women seem to look the same, and usually wear hijabs, niqabs and/or abaayas (the blacker, the better!) When it comes to the niqab in political cartoons, it tends to serve the purpose of deleting the women’s presence, voice and agency. This resonates with the idea that niqabi women are already oppressed, so why depict them with an agency that they do not have?

Excerpt of the Day:

Few Israelis had heard of Kiryat Malachi, much less been to the down-on-its-heels town of 25,000 on the road to Beersheba from Ashdod, until television news reports in early January broke the scandal of apartment leases that supposedly barred Ethiopians from living there.

In an article titled “Restive Ethiopians Take to Street,” Nathan Jeffay of the Jewish Daily Forward writes about a news generation of Israelis, primarily Ethiopian, who decided to protest after hearing about alleged racists deals against Ethiopians in Israel. According to the report, nearly 50 percent of the town came out to protests on January 10.

Today’s Opinion:

My Take: Why Christian are criticizing my Christian marriage and sex book
You try to write a book on marriage and sex with your wife and next thing you know there are a lot of ants crashing your picnic. My wife, Grace, and I recently published "Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, & Life Together," which quickly became a No. 1 New York Times best-seller.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (195 Responses)
  1. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things
    There is joy in evening prayer
    Talking with God brings inspiration to life
    Prayer changes things

    January 24, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      Schizophrenics get joy from speaking to the voices they hear also...religion is no different!! You need mental health care in a serious way!!

      January 25, 2012 at 7:10 am |
    • Mirosal

      maybe she's already in a mental ward, andis sneaking into the office when the nurses aren't looking .... hello m'lady Truth 🙂

      January 25, 2012 at 7:14 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      demons gather at the mention of prayer

      January 25, 2012 at 8:00 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      demons gather at the mention of prayer trembling with fear and lusting for themselves

      January 25, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • Mirosal

      nothing wrong with a little bit of lust now and then lol ... you're just mad that no one lusts after you

      January 25, 2012 at 8:03 am |
    • Nope

      We've been praying you would stop posting this crap and it hasn't stop, proving prayer doesn't work.

      Plus there are starving people in the world praying to end their starvation, yet millions die every year, proving prayer doesn't work.

      January 25, 2012 at 8:04 am |
    • just sayin

      dead observes and gathers he doesn't hit on someone on an anonymous blog

      January 25, 2012 at 8:05 am |
  2. VanHagar

    Ironicus...and again...explain first cause to me.

    January 24, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Ironicus

      And again, you really should try thinking. It doesn't really hurt all that much. Really.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
  3. VanHagar

    @Ironicus...easy there cowboy. My point was to point out the fallacy of the arguments above. But to your point, you are wrong about faith–it can be proven. I have faith! There. See, i just proved that it exists, because I say it does. I believe in God. That is faith. There, I proved it again. I think, obviously, what your trying to say is that God does not exist. Explain to me, if you will, the concept of first cause. What was it? I say that it has to be something that exists outside of the laws of cause and effect, that makes it, for lack of a better word, super natural. I say it is God. Prove that it isn't.

    January 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Sorry all, this was meant to go at the bottom to respond to Ironicus' post at 5:14.

      January 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      I have faith too. The moon is made of green cheese. I believe that. See I have faith. Faith exists. believing something doesn't make ir true. The jump from your "first cause" argument, (which has been debunked by Quantum Physics), to MY god did it, is not the ONLY option. Your god of the gaps argument is as old as the hills. The problem is, what are you gonna do when more and more answers are found. Just because YOU don't understand something is not a reason to jump to "oh god did it".

      January 24, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Maurey...your right, you do have faith–you need to read Ironicus statement below–my response was sarcasm. QP has not debunked first cause–explain it if you can.

      January 24, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      Sorry you have to do your own homework. There is no qualitative difference in arguing for an eternally existing creator, (who made the universe), if you are consistent with your "first cause" argument), and eternally existing universes without it. If you are consistent with the "first cause" argument, then you have to answer "who made the creator ?" Hint: Nothing is not "nothing". Nothing is something. It's NOT "turtles all the way down". Good luck.

      January 24, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Maurey-nice try. (And try reading my posts next time.) I already indicated that the existence of God exists outside the law of cause and effect–and thus outside the first cause requirement-thus making it supernatural. I have done my own homework–you're the one that made the QP claim (which I assume you only got of the internet somewhere). If you don't want to explain it, fine. At the end of the day, you must agree that something must exist outside the law of cause and effect–there is simply no way around it.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • Ironicus

      LOL
      If your "god" is outside the "law" of cause and effect, then he couldn't have "caused" anything. LOL
      Where's your logic? Did you forget to think again? LOL You really are too funny! LOL

      January 24, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Ironicus...did you miss the "supernatural" part?. To believe in God is to believe in something that exists clearly outside our own understanding of the universe. Our natural laws simply don't apply to Him. And, again, explain first cause to me oh wise one.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • Ironicus

      And where did your "god" come from? Did he come out of his own ass? Because that's where you're coming from.
      Describe your "god" and we can show that your fantasy-delusion does not exist outside of your damaged head.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Ironicus...I apologize. I thought I was having a debate with an adult. Don't you have a junior high home economics exam to study for?

      January 24, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      YOU were stating the necessity for a "first cause". If you are not going to be consistent, then stop making the "first cause" argument, by, oh so conveniently saying YOUR first cause needs none. You invalidate your own argument. And I'm not going to attempt to explain QM to you. It would take hours, and if you believe in that for which there is no evidence, you're, a priori, not going to accept it anyway. Your assumption that everything is "intuitive", has been proven to be invalid, in at least two cases that come to mind, (Relativity, and Uncertainty). Your assumption that the nature of reality is intuitive, is not reasonable.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      1. Jumping from "something must exist outside cause and effect", to "MY god is the cause", or Yahweh Sabaoth, (the ancient Near Eastern god of the armies), is THE first cause, is something you have not established. Actually it's not the "exists outside the laws of cause and effect" that is the problem, (as you can posit ANY unsupported explanation you want), but if you expect reasonable people to take it seriously, you have to offer at least one reasonable explanation. You have not explained the link between the first cause to YOUR god.

      2. Please define the word "existence". Explain how your (human) temporally dependent concept of that word, could apply to a god "before" it created space-time. (Be sure, in your definition, to use NO concept that requires time to "proceed"). How can your god "exist", within any meaningful definition of that word, without the concurrent "existence" of time. It could not "exist", AND also be the creator of the dimension(s) in which it "exists". The most you can say, is that there is nothing logical that can be said about that subject.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:59 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      Oh well, gotta run. I'll just leave you with a simple equation. 1 + (-1) = 0. Gravity can have a negative energy. Your assumption that the sum of the energy of the universe(s) is + (positive), is not necessarily the case. Maybe there is "nothing"...zero. Then your first cause requirement is moot. Also, if as is currently thought, Dark Energy+Dark Matter= about 99.99 % of the universe, why would your "first cause", have made you so totally insignificant ? Great discussion sir. Hope to see you again.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
  4. RightTurnClyde

    This CNN Belief Blog has run out of issues about theology or religious practice so now they are focused on being a scandal sheet (like Oral Roberts kid and a DUI) and defaming Christian (anything Christian) .. and politics. They think the big story is the 2012 election (and it is not)... at least yet. Nobody cares about it. Nobody cares who runs against Obama since it is a foregone conclusion that Obama will win (because of the media - as he did before). Obama does whatever he pleases (which generally is a failure: bailouts, economics, the wars, mortgages, unemployment, jobs .. he has no successes .. and he is way unqualified . .. but the media likes him because he is black .. so they will not report anything good about anyone else). So the election is wash .. nothing worth reading. The CNN belief blog was scratching the barrel last year with Amish beards and Amish buggys in Kentucky. Then some nut-case Mennonite Calvinist. Most of the preachers cannot write an interesting post (probably like their sermons). So the blog is out of gas .. and on the side of the road. The "anti's" are a clique of gays and atheists who are a broken record. They just out-shout everyone else, but their message is the same (and dumb). So that's the old ball game January 2012. Maybe something will come along and breathe new life in to this BLOG. Maybe.

    January 24, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Thanks for continuing your ignorant, personal narrative. It really adds a lot to the blog.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
  5. AGuest9

    The abortion issue from a civil law standpoint is when to define the death of a human being. When a child is a viable human life, s/he can survive outside the mother's body, at approximately 28 weeks or sometimes less, with neonatal care.

    The quandary becomes the dependency on whether that baby is wanted or not. A wanted baby at 25 weeks that dies as the result of a vehicle accident, for example, can result in homicide charges for the driver. An unwanted baby at 22 weeks can be legally aborted. As personally revolting this is (after becoming a father), I am still a pro-choice supporter, because my children grew up in a loving home. At the same time, my tax dollars support prisons filled with adult unwanted children, many born into the welfare system as a method to "game" the system. More disgusting still are the shotgun weddings that ruin at least three lives and result in the raising of a "mistake". One can't preach the morality of an abortion without considering the consequences of the destruction wrought by the birth of all those unwanted children on the rest of society.

    January 24, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • Observer

      There's a good blog where this really belongs – go over to My Take: Why the abortion issue won’t go away

      January 24, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      It's not about defining the point of death. It's about granting (legal) person-hood to a clump of cells with no neural tube. (the "Life begins at conception" argument) "When a child is a viable human life, s/he can survive outside the mother's body, at approximately 28 weeks or sometimes less, with neonatal care." Most 28 week old births are severely compromised. They cannot "survive, (as no infant can), without support. A bankrupt nation cannot afford millions of dollars on one 28 week old premie.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      It's actually bigger than the theoretical issues about when is a f.e.t.u.s viable. Back in the "old days" since it was such a social disgrace to be an unwed mother, women (girls) were sent to "auntie's house" and the situation had NO affirmative results. It was a major psychological, personal and familial disaster Many unwed women went to back-alley surgeons who often m.u.r.d.e.r.e.d both of them. So there were two lives lost. They were not skilled (just available). These are the same type who would take bullets out of robbers with the same results there - about a 70% failure rate... and permanently crippled the patient. So it is actually BETTER if those people get skilled medical care and the medical people are NOT bothered by religious wackos.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
  6. hippypoet

    ok time for my question/topic/thingie – if you were given the power that all in history have desired – ultimate dictatorship, what would you do with it?

    January 24, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • William Demuth

      Bring back "All In The Family"

      January 24, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Brad

      Everyone shall have cake.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      Fire Kathy Lee

      January 24, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • J.W

      I could get any woman I want, so the first thing I would have to do is decide who my wife would be. I am sure there would be other things though let me think about that.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Nonimus

      abdicate

      January 24, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • J.W

      I think at least at first I would want all the people to love me, so I would do good things, like have new hospitals and roads built all over the world. I would overthrow all the corrupt rulers in power right now who cause people to live in poverty. I would make sure that everyone had food and medical care. Then the people would be so happy they will worship me even more. They would all say 'This man believes in God, surely God must be partly responsible for our great fortune.'

      January 24, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • hippypoet

      ok this isn't just a grasp at power but rather a hint at how you will be remembered throughout history – make it good!

      January 24, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Brad

      All right, for the first time in history everyone will be fed, sheltered, as healthy as we can make them, and safe. And there will be cake.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • hippypoet

      ko so brad, as awesomely sweet as that sounds i shall twist it around on you – are you saying that because i said you will be remembered for this you changed and now say that you would feed all and give the homeless homes – thats selfish in that you will be held still above those that you sought to help...so in time you may not be as honored as you think but looked upon with disstain for being selfish with power and used it to only increase your image...are you still sure thats what you would do?

      January 24, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • SeanNJ

      I'd tell an old guy to build a boat, take his family and a bunch of animals and then flood the planet killing everything else.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • Nonimus

      I'm sorry. "ultimate dictatorship" meaning ruler of the world, but in the real world, or god-like powers? Makes a difference.
      I like to think that I would still abdicate, either way, but no one can say what they would do until it happened.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • SeanNJ

      @Nonimus: I hope my answer didn't throw you off. I could flood the world without god-like powers using a series of lasers and large orbiting mirrors aimed at the icecaps.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I'd buy the world a coke and teach it to sing in harmony.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • hippypoet

      i think we are all forgetting where true power comes from – is a lone man or women having of any power over others? no, so with that one can gather that power is only power when there are those to have power over... and so any power is just another form of tyranny – and an act of true power is giving that power up and giving it to the people to govern themselves.

      however, who can say honestly that they would give up utlimate power? the interesting part here is that once you give power to the people and give up your own sit of power – you are now just an average joe and once again have power due to your last act as a tryannical ruler...pretty selfish again, but now all have equal say in all matters, so is it really selfish?

      January 24, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • SeanNJ

      Sword of Damocles is a bitch.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Brad

      OK hippypoet, I shall live as my people live and only go among them anonymously. But I will set up Another who appears to rule. He will live in great opulence and will begin to dispense terrible justice and become capricious. He will be despised. Like Che, I will come forward. I will give the people the means to overthrow this tyrant and together we will do so. Unlike Che, I will replace the tyrant and, loved by all, will see to it that everyone enjoys equal access to all the things they need in life.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • fred

      God was the perfect benevolent head of the Garden of Eden. Man rejects even complete perfect benevolence from the head of the Garden that so loved all in that world he gave them everything but, one little tree. Man revolts rejecting the heads only request wanting greater power and wisdom. The head of the Garden pulls a Nonimus and says fine it’s all yours go for it with your new found knowledge and wisdom.
      Over the next 4,000 years the benevolent head cannot help himself and keeps trying to guide and help these people out and they reject his efforts at every turn. The head then came looking like everyone else and walked around the area of Jerusalem healing people, guiding them and blasting the religious leaders that were treating everyone like dirt. He told everyone how much he loved them and promised a Kingdom where he would wipe away every tear, remove pain and suffering, guarantee an eternity of Joy. The people given their wisdom and knowledge nailed him to a cross and mocked him.
      Two thousand years later people have grown cold and selfish. Their desire is wealth, beauty and pleasures of all kinds. Deluded in their lusts all sense of $exual morality is lost. Mothers have killed over 50 million of their own children and the rest encourage decadence in public and private the like’s man has never known. The godless generation quickly approaches the fall all civilizations have experienced over history yet oblivious that history repeats itself. The entire time claiming to exercise greater wisdom and knowledge than even God, if there is such a thing.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • Brad

      hippypoet – sovereignty of the people is a new idea and people have not always demanded it it. Historically, people have been satisfied when their needs are met and they are treated in a way that seems fair – usually they just want equal recourse to law and justice. As a tyrannical ruler I would establish sufficient law to ensure that everyone feels there is a level playing field and class-mobility.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:23 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @fred: I think you missed a few doses, because you've been increasingly erratic the last couple days.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • fred

      SeanNJ
      Well, I would like to say that was the other fred or Fred who posted the above ..................but, it was me. The theme was right on track with God is the perfect and only King anyone could ever want. How to get anyone to see that continues to elude me.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @fred: You said, "How to get anyone to see that continues to elude me."

      Well, if your god won't do it, then you certainly can't do it. I'd just throw in the towel if I were you.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @fred,
      Thanks for the mention, but God, supposedly, didn't abdicate power, he just kicked man out and said, 'fine. if you won't play by my rules you will suffer and in the end you may burn in hell for eternity. Thanks for playing."

      January 24, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • fred

      Nonimus
      Did you notice why God threw them out? Other than the fact they rejected God (not vise versa) the tree of life was in the Garden. " he has become like us knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat and live forever". It appears that to live forever as you and I are today is a real problem. It would be like a bad movie where you never kill freddie off (not me Kruger). God does not want us to spend eternity as a bunch of miserable humanoids. Always providing, always loving, God made a way to be restored. Now that is some God!

      January 24, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • fred

      SeanNJ
      Why God grabbed one of the least deserving ones like me, dusted me off and gave me a few more years of life still blows me away. I remain thankful and fear that I might be wrong in hopes that hell is only for Satan and his demons. If I am wrong non beleivers will suffer great loss. At a minimum non beleivers will spend eternity separated from God. At a minimum will see the truth and see God as he really is then spend eternity knowing it was their choice to reject God as he is not as we would have him. There is one Hebrew translation that gives a slim chance to some people simply being blotted out. That is the atheist dream of the after life – nothingness and never existing in the first place.
      Either way I would be a real jerk if I did not try and tell every one I knew about the truth of God. If I am wrong I have yet to think of any downside. The good thing is that I agree with the atheist that if I am wrong we are all going to be dead wrong.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:34 pm |
    • hippypoet

      @fred – fuk god, that creation of man has no place in the real world. untill proven god takes a back seat to any discussion. Unless of course if god is part of the question then by all means, chime in with your delusions. But be forwarned – atheists know far more then the average believer when it comes to religions (worldwide not just the one YOU think is the right one, which btw makes you a bit conceded and tad willfully ignorant) and religious dogma.

      @brad- that major flaw in your idea is that people are yes easily fooled but not for long, your vale will at some point come crashing down on you. But i like the idea! With more thought that could totally work, all you need really is more balances of who to hate and why with no connections to you...the way to do this is have the first dictator who takes your place hire a new one using your orders, then you kill the first dictator – but you can't be named in the killing or all is lost.

      @Nonimus – i too would give up the power, but if the power was god-like then would it be possible to give it up or is the power rather a part of you? I'd say that the dictator of the world is human so no real complications like that can ensue.

      @sean – your boat and killing everyone off is not going to work – you only have power thru others being below you and following your orders... what your taking about is rather a god-like being just for the sake of it destorying the planet but picking one to live...sounds a bit too familar, just can't place it! lol

      @J.W. – once all the "bad" leaders are gone, which would have been done thru war, would you consider yourself to be better then them that once held such a poisition of power? Or after building all these things, which will be done thru either paid work or slavery, would you consider yourself done? At the end of each option you have something that is at the core of your post – you want/need others to like you...unless thru free will, it always ends badly – they must like/love you for who you are, not what you do or build. tryanny is the way you would end your days.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @fred: You said, "Either way I would be a real jerk if I did not try and tell every one I knew about the truth of God."

      Funny, we think you're a jerk because you won't shut up about it. Go figure.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
    • hippypoet

      fred this is the last time i will correct you for being so GOD DAMN DUMB – its the tree of either knowledge or wisdom – not the tree of life – thats a celtic myth but nice try.

      this further proves the ignorance of you believers not only with other belief systems but your own as well... so sad!

      January 24, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @hippypoet: Of course it would work. Even Dr. Manhattan got fooled by Adrian Veidt. I'm certain I could concoct a story involving solar power and asteroid/comet defense that would get everyone to happily build the requisite parts that I needed for my orbiting-icecap-melting laser array.

      Since you doubt me, your not the one who gets the boat. 😛

      January 24, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • hippypoet

      @sean, lol..its cool – i have always wondered how the earth would look with an extra couple hundred feet of water...plus i am a great swimmer – shark food anyone! lol

      January 24, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • fred

      hippypoet
      There were two trees in the Garden one was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the other was the tree of life.

      God does enter into any discussion regarding the optimum form of government. I was God that granted the chosen ones a King. Man demanded a King just like the other nations had and God said you will have a King. Then God warned them that Kings will extract payment, land and whatever they wish from subjects. Man chose to have a King just like you choose a King. That is just as relavent if not more so to your post as it expresses the truth as to how foolish man is in cheep talk about government and politics.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • hippypoet

      sorry fred, the only reason i can see how you spewing more come about god is that i am also talking about things that aren't real or just never going to happen...in that sense – sure, gods of all types have relavence, but when you talk "truth" when in referrence to any god then you sir are just a moron. your book was written 2000 years ago and can be found in the fiction section of any proper library. fiction is also where they keep dr. suess – a much better writer then those that wrote your manual on stupidity.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
    • J.W

      I would not need war to overthrow them. All of their armies that they use to obtain power would be on my side. Therefore, their people would just stop listening to them and follow me. I would not need any slaves. I would have enough money to pay for everything I needed. There maybe be some people who would not be on my side and try to cause trouble, but hopefully I would have a good enough police force to stop them.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • fred

      hippypoet
      Red fish, blue fish big fish................dr.Seuss thought enough of the writting of Jonah to embrace the fish story, you may just want to give it a little more credit since God as outsold Dr. Seuss 1 million to 1.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • hippypoet

      @J.W. – again, you become a tryant before the end of your post...in a perfect world with no enemies what need is there for police? Your right thou to @ssume that you would become complacent in that lifestyle, however complacently breeds boredom which only creates havoc in a perfect world.

      @fred – god hasn't sold anything being that god doesn't exist, and if god did it wouldn't be alone in that type of existence – there are a great many gods, yours is just one of many – not THE ONE ......and the modern publishers do all the selling...and since your ENTIRE faith is based on fear, its not a hard sell!
      the sad fact is mr fred that the most sales made on the bible are in hotels, the people who stay in them often destory them so the hotel people need another one to replace the old one. I know when i go on my vaca in 6 weeks i will a lovely drawing inside the covers of every bible i find in my hotel room – or perhaps pretend to get offended by the lack of the koran or torah. oh what joy can be found in debasing fear based idiologies! 🙂 I can't wait....

      January 24, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Ahhh, hippypoet, once again you posit something with missing variables. Alas.

      Depending on how this "ultimate dictatorship" came to be and how it is projected upon the current human population as it stands now (a non-relevant variable at this point because current world society has no mechanism by which an "ultimate dictatorship could arise), then my actions would be as rational as possible under all circ.umstances.

      Or, assuming there is some sort of world-wide government under which a dictatorship could exist, but keeping all the other variables nonsensically stable and equivalent to the current state of: world affairs, population metrics, socioeconomic variables, psychological metrics, etc. - THEN I, for one, would welcome myself as the New OverLord of Earth and immediately do the best damn job I could in protecting the human species from extinction, raising the standard of living for all people to the extent possible with a "golden mean" as the most effective and sustainable projection of my "ultimate power" in such a case.
      This would include a lamentable number of absolutely necessary executions due to resource management, some policies likely to be viewed as "oppressive" to those targets of such policies, and other grandiose ideological projections of my personal take on what sort of things need to be done...yet on the whole my reign would be viewed as amazingly liberating and supportive of the general population.

      My goals would range from immediate and short-term to the extremely long-term goals I view as critical for the human species as a whole, while keeping everything as realistic as possible even in the face of your ridiculous lack of details.

      For you personally, I would sentence you to wear fuzzy slippers for a week and ban you from saying stupid things on the internet for at least a year.
      See? I'm not so bad as an "ultimate dictator", but come at me, bro!
      Get out your fuzzy and arbitrary evaluations of my reply from your belly button and tell me how messed up my reply is this time, you lint-head.
      Go ahead, I fucking dare you...

      January 24, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • hippypoet

      @Ironicus, tell ya what, tomorrow ,just for you, i will have a complete lack of creativity topic where all the details are given that way noone has to think for themselves – that seems to be more your speed.
      I can imagine that it was very hard to come up with any kind of answer when the question was as hard as it was.
      I shall give you a hint about tomorrows question/topic – it involves me asking a lovely open ended question where others use the minds (this is where it gets hard for you) to come up with interesting ideas which reveal our inner selves. perhaps thats what you fear, you...hence the hostility towards such questions. And i am once again very sorry for that i ask a question without giving the how, why, where, when, who answers first – that must really sting not having such a hand out when thats exactly what your use to... i am laughing at you right now just so ya know...it hurts too because the whole come at me bro is a dead give-away to who you have posted as in the past. Let me just say that your on the spot poetry is , well, lacking! But now that i know what i am dealing with, it comes as no surprise.
      Why don’t you create a question/topic for us all and you can do all the things that you dislike about when I do it…deal?

      January 24, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Think about Jeremiah (biblical prophet): Jeremiah was a bullfrog He was a good friend of mine I never understood a single word he said But I loved to drink his wine And there was Joy to the world All the boys and girls now Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me **If I was the king of the world Tell you what I'm gonna do Do away with bars and cars and wars and make sweet love to you And there was Joy to the world All the boys and girls now Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me

      January 24, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • Ironicus

      You think that because I said, "come at me bro" this means I am some particular person?
      Why don't you google the phrase? I think you'll find it's an internet meme and not indicative of one person you fuckwit.

      And I tried playing along with your sloppy question in case you hadn't noticed, so your complaints fall rather short.

      In addition, in your original post, you assumed everyone wants to be the "ultimate dictator" which is demonstrably false, yet you have no problem sticking it in there....just like any old fuckwit would do.

      When you learn to have a proper respect for variables, assuming it doesn't result in your death, I fully expect your posts to improve in this area and become less ridiculous.
      Until that unlikely event happens, I do not feel especially motivated to think up useless questions and leave such activities to you since you seem to have such fun with them. I've got better things to do. You apparently do not.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • hippypoet

      yes, you do have better things to do right...like what? post on mine acting smart but revealing yourself to be quick to anger and comical when you are mad. I have always liked your name but that was about it. you sir require too much of others when you are more then capable, and the variables you love to speak of are everywhere and need no reiteration. i simply ask in the category of "what if" and the variables for what if are purposely endless but held in a realm of possibly events. Such as if time travel was possible or if you were made utlimate dictator or what would happen if this was your last day – these things are text book questions to your innerself and are needed in this day and age where most of us care not who or what and only concern ourselves with when and how!

      and off topic, how is it that you are able to post the f word, i have to type it like this- fuk you you come drinking whor bag!

      January 24, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • Ironicus

      lol
      You posit questions like an empty-headed schoolgirl all enthused about her cute Philo101 professor and throw insults like a girl, too.
      Are you female? Because that would explain certain things about your posts...

      January 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • hippypoet

      no i am not a girl, not that would truly answer anything .....all it says it that you are biased towards women, so i have gathered that you are quick to anger and biased towards women – you fit the bill for a red neck rather perfectly...do we see how saying things in an honest fashion reveals our true selves....you may wish to put the mirror down.

      January 24, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Just testin' ya, hippypoet. You are so easy to troll, I swear...
      I love how you make assumptions about me. It really shows you to be the sort of person who jumps to all kinds of untrue conclusions.
      And if you didn't act like an empty-headed fool, I wouldn't call you one, you empty-headed fool.
      When you want to have an intelligent conversation be sure and ask someone to do it for you, like I said before...

      January 24, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
  7. Christopher Hitchens

    Get at me brooooooooooooo.

    Hitchy Hitchy Hitchy p000000000, where are you?

    January 24, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Christopher

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_D7Ov0xKts&w=560&h=315]

      January 24, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • hitch

      rotting in hell
      and turning to goo

      January 24, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
  8. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Just thought I'd start another lengthy thread: Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son was never elected to homecoming court. That omission in high school shaped her whole future. Everything we see here is a plea for someone to help her find what she missed out on in life.

    January 24, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • just sayin

      it is always interesting to see someone so desperate that they have to steal a handle on an anonymous blog. You poor lonely pathetic unoriginal waif.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Observer

      In this topic-less Wasteland anything is an improvement.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      Ya, you better get praying. If you don't pray 1.09786542543 % harder today, that kid with leukemia is not gonna get cured. Now get cracking. I'm watching, and my prayer meter is fired up, and running.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The Maurey Povich Bible Show, I received this e-mail about a month ago.

      Past the seeker as he prayed
      came the crippled
      and the beggar
      and the beaten.
      And seeing them... he cried,
      "Great God, how is it that a loving creator
      can see such things
      and yet do nothing about them?"
      God said,
      "I did do something.
      I made
      YOU."

      ~Anonymous

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Becuase we all what God thinks of his factory reject creations.

      Ex.4:11
      Who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

      Lev.21:17-23
      Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

      God makes people that He automatically rejects as beign worthy of His house of worship.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      *crickets chirping*

      Guess HS got struck dumb (pun intended) by that one. Good job!

      January 24, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
  9. just helping out

    No one is punished for curiosity, the problem is not curiosity, the problem is sin.
    Babel was not about cooperation between mankind, it was about going the wrong way. Man left to his own devices degenerates into evil until everything is corrupted by evil and sin . Much like the danger that atheism and ho mo se xuality pose to society today. Fortunately we have a Godly influence to counterbalance the evil and we still have a language barrier that at least slows the transmission of sin.
    The first four commandments deal with God because God is and knows what is best for us. All knowledge to improve and advance mankind comes from God. God has given freely to man since creation. To suggest God opposes knowledge shows a remarkable lack of understanding of who God is, but the again everything you have written shows an incredible lack of understanding.

    January 24, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      There are 628 commandments. You pick and choose.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • William Demuth

      Hah!

      You sound like a Star Trek nerd, hoping around on one foot whilst wearing pointy ears INSISTING that your interpretation of some meaningless point is the correct one.

      Alas, you seem to miss the point that the whole world you are discussing in its entirety is FICTION.

      Every single aspect of your faith was fabricated by men to manipulate the minds of the weak.

      Tragically, you are proof that their efforts were not in vain.

      Your God is about as real as Klingons.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • just helping out

      If it wasn't for all the fulfilled prophecy, historical and archaeological evidence you might have an argument as it is you are merely showing your ignorance.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • William Demuth

      Ignorance?

      You speak of Prophecy and you say I am ignorant.

      Your psychobabble clearly betrays your indoctrination.

      Your mama so filled you with a fear of death that you would kowtow to a cartoon like visage of a savior.

      You want prophecy? I predict that if you have children they will be ignorant indoctrinated simpletons, just like you.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Genesis 11:6
      And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

      That seems pretty cut and dry to me!
      God saw what mankind could do when working together, united by a common goal and He didn't like it.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Knowledge to improve mankind is gained and applied in spite of God and his earthly minions, not becuase of it.
      You'll note that the biggest technophobes in the developed world are devout Christians (Amish).
      Christians persecuted those who rejected geocentrism.
      Certain sects deny facts like the true age of the earth and the universe, basically denying reams of solid data pertaining to red-shift of light from distant galaxies, radioisotope dating, plate tectonics, optically stimulated luminescence, thermoluminescence, archaeomagnetism, electronic spin resonance, pollen analysis, ice core dating, linguistic diffusion, soil creation by earthworms, erosion rates, and molecular clock dating.
      Look on the page from CNN regarding the Evolution debate.
      Theists reject facts like he fossil record, which though not complete, is immense.
      Strange creatures that used to be alive are alive no longer.
      Older strata of rock contain fossils of animals that are, in general, more primitive than later strata.
      Studies of DNA show that animals that share common characteristics also share much DNA.
      These same studies show that humans share between 97% and 99% of their genome with chimpanzees.
      Modern humans shared the planet with at least two other hominid species within the past 30,000 years, Neanderthals and Flores humans.

      The theistic response to hard questions is all too often "Goddidit – good enough for me. No more questions, please."

      January 24, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • just helping out

      Well good doc good, you quote scripture . Now read back a bit, say around Genesis 6. History does not happen in a vacuum. What had just happened and what was the real problem? The Bible is not some childrens book, it takes a measure of adult intelligence to see the connections, you may never get it. Without Gods own illumination you may never understand the Bible and it would seem you are determined to avoid God at all costs.

      January 24, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      "Gods own illumination" is code for "understand it my way, or you're wrong".

      January 24, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, you posted “Genesis 11:6
      And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do; and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

      That seems pretty cut and dry to me!
      God saw what mankind could do when working together, united by a common goal and He didn't like it.”

      Answer: Funny that an atheist picks scriptures pertaining to the ego of man building a monument to themselves (look at me, look at what I can do, what I’ve done, calling attention to their own abilities/achievements, hence, babble, babble, babble of baloney, stroking one's ego) instead of giving glory to God.

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      The Maurey Povich Bible Show, you babbled ""Gods own illumination" is code for "understand it my way, or you're wrong".

      Answer: Sin is evil. What sin(s) are you refusing to give up that you go out of your way to bash Jesus' spiritual truth?

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @heavensent
      The only "sin" is harming other unnecessarily.
      All other sin is nonsense invented by those who wish to control others – with "blasphemy" and "heresy" battling it out for which is the most ridiculous.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • Ironicus

      There is no such thing as "sin" and no "gods" exist as described, thus any discourse upon these imaginary bits of nonsense are semantically useless and empty.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Ummm

      Yet it doesn't stop you from voicing your opinion on it.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Yes. Being bored, I thought it ironic to post that. Thanks for coming out.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      HeavenSent
      "what sins are you refusing to give up...bla bla bla" is code for : "If you disagree with ME, the only explanation is that you are a sinner, and evil". There is no arguing with a 2 year old.

      Amen

      January 24, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
  10. bringoutyourdead

    Not here to debate the dead you just making observations and moving the cart

    January 24, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @bringoutyoudead
      May I assume that this is your response to my request for you to give an alternate interpretation of the babel/eden stories?
      So basically you're saying "Because I said so 😛 nyah nyah. I don't wanna play anymore".

      January 24, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      don't play just observe

      January 24, 2012 at 10:12 am |
  11. You are a Monkey

    So many stupid people always on CNN comments......I'm guessing that 90% of you all have no life and probably live in your mom's basement.

    January 24, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      If it's all so inane to you, why read it – let alone comment?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • You are a Monkey

      @Doc

      Because I find the ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, and same old tired arguments amusing when I'm slow at work. It's like nobody can think critically anymore. Just like politicians throwing out bogus phrases that have no real meaning whatsoever.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • William Demuth

      You are a Monkey

      While me and Doc do not always agree, I can assure you he is quite insightful and can "think" with the best of you.

      With religion (and politics) one need be wary of the mental trap of engaging the minutuia of a false premise.

      Saying something is absurd on its face is a time tested method of prosecuting one beliefs.

      Otherwise you end up with folks like our poster "Reality", who is so buried in his imaginary dogma that he seems like he is from another world.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Was that a Freudian slip, there, Monkey? "When I'm slow at work." I'll bet you're slow at work most of the time.

      January 24, 2012 at 6:15 pm |
  12. Doc Vestibule

    We need another of Hippypoet's "what if" scenarios this morning...
    What if Pantheistic Solipsism is the way the multiverse runs? Meaning that everything ever conceived exists somewhere/when...
    What Universe would be the most interesting for you to visit?
    Oz? Xanadu? Valhalla? Heaven?

    January 24, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      While valhalla sounds like a lot of fun, if I could only pick one it would be Muslim heaven. 72 virgins is just too good to pass up.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @I'm the Best
      As tempting as all those nubiles are, it just isn't heaven to me without bacon.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      Are you kidding ? Se'x with virgins ? How boring !

      January 24, 2012 at 9:48 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      Oh yea, good point doc...

      Am I allowed to bring a bacon explosion with me?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • William Demuth

      This one right here my freind.

      No figment of ones imagination can hold a candle to the starkness of this reality.

      Life, when viewed as a spectator sport, can be fascinating.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • Observer

      Oz has the clearest treatment of good and evil.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      It's "chaos vs order". They stole it from the "Marduk slaying the Dragon" (of chaos) myth.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • hippypoet

      well, doc... i'd say asgard is the place to be for it has access to all 9 worlds via the rainbow bridge – plus i love to fight and thats pretty much all we do here in asgard ....kick @ss!!! while Valhalla sounds nice, i am a god, i do what they do everyday only i get to feast everytime! 🙂

      January 24, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • J.W

      I have a question. Can I conceive my own universe and go there?

      January 24, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      J.W.
      No you can't. (reducio ad absurdum argument). That does not mean "god did it".

      January 24, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • J.W

      Maury Povich Bible Show I do not see what your response had to do with the question I asked. But feel free to explain. I did not say anything about God doing anything. I was simply asking if I could conceive my own universe, since doc said every universe ever conceived.

      January 24, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
    • Ironicus

      J.W., you just answered your own question. Congratulations.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
  13. bringoutyourdead

    demon fears God and denies prayer

    January 24, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • William Demuth

      Back to the gulag.

      You need reeducation.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:46 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Which demon exactly?
      I'd say that you and Atheism is Not Healthy are under the influence of Pythius, as you keep spreading misinformation.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:53 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      All demons fear God and deny prayer

      January 24, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • just sayin

      great faith has come out of the gulag, the strength of Christ is evidenced in great adversity, the godless have tried to suppress the freedom believers have in God but only result in making Christianity stronger and more vibrant. Gulag? bring it on Mr. Stalin

      January 24, 2012 at 9:26 am |
  14. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    January 24, 2012 at 6:59 am |
    • Mirosal

      Prove it.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:01 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      a demon demands proof because he fears the answer

      January 24, 2012 at 7:18 am |
    • Mirosal

      I am not a demon.. I am real.. demons are not. Your second sentence makes NO sense.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      demons attach themselves to dead souls

      January 24, 2012 at 8:04 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Souls don't exist either.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:05 am |
    • Mirosal

      he thinks werewolves and vampires are real also ... He probably thinks exorcism is real as well.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Here's a fine example of prayer changing things.
      At the beginning of this month, two farmers in India were arrested for sacrificing 7 year old Lalita Tati.
      She disappeared in October and police found her dismembered remains a week later.
      The farmers had removed her liver as an offering to their God in order to ensure a better harvest.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:10 am |
    • just wondering

      What does the bs India unconfirmed story have to do with anything?

      January 24, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      exorcism is used because demons exist. the other creatures are from literature but represent evil which exists. the soul exists

      January 24, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • LinCA

      @just wondering

      You said, "What does the bs India unconfirmed story have to do with anything?"
      It was religiots praying to their imaginary friend that drove them to kill an innocent child. Prayer changed everything for Lalita.

      Here is one of many links to the story:
      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57350880/police-indian-child-killed-as-human-sacrifice/

      January 24, 2012 at 8:25 am |
    • just sayin

      There is a God. The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, revealed to us In the person of Jesus of Nazareth.That is the One True God. Any other gods are false. Prayer is only relevant when you are in communication with the OneTrue God.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:50 am |
    • Nope

      "Prayer is only relevant when you are in communication with the OneTrue God."

      LMAO – delusional or what LOL! People have been praying to end starvation for centuries and yet millions of people die every day from it – proving prayer doesn't work.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:53 am |
    • LinCA

      @just sayin

      You said, "There is a God. The God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, revealed to us In the person of Jesus of Nazareth.That is the One True God. Any other gods are false. Prayer is only relevant when you are in communication with the OneTrue God."

      There is equal evidence for their god(s) as there is for yours. The odds that any of them exist are extremely close to zero. Those farmers are no more or less deluded than anyone (including you) who communicates with his imaginary friend.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • An inconvenient truth

      Mankind was given the responsibility for looking after each other by God. People are starving means we are not living up to our God given assignment to care for our brothers ans sisters. People are starving guess who is responsible? You are and I am.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:01 am |
    • just sayin

      Emmanuel, God with us revealed in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Just because linca can't comprehend does not negate the evidence.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @an inconvenient truth
      Flooding, draught etc. are in the Gods' domain, are they not?
      People starving due to a poor harvest is not man's fault.
      Until just the last handful of decades, lack of long range, speedy transportation meant that there was little or nothing people could do to help those starving in foreign lands.
      So does that mean early 20th century and earlier famines, draughts, plagues etc. were all the fault of those who were suffering?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:07 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      just sayin
      Thanks for reminding us that Yahweh was just one of the many gods of the time, (the god of the armies), and there were many Ancient Near Eastern gods, and that the covenant was not that they didn't believe in other gods, but that they would not worship the others, (Marduk, Ahura, Baal).

      January 24, 2012 at 9:33 am |
    • LinCA

      @just sayin

      You said, "Just because linca can't comprehend does not negate the evidence."

      What evidence? If you have some, let us know. There is no easier way to "save a soul" and win a convert than to show the evidence. Without it, on the other hand, you're just blowing smoke.

      My bet is that you don't have any. All you have is your book of fairy tales. It won't convince any rational person over the age of 5.

      So, please make your choice. Produce some evidence, or show the world you're an idiot. It's time to put up, or shut up.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:42 am |
    • An inconvenient truth

      It rains on the just and the unjust. Sin has the capacity to inflict problems on both the perpetrator and the innocent bystander.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:44 am |
    • just sayin

      Jesus of Nazareth is the evidence.
      Can't be much plainer
      If you still can't see it I cannot help you
      You are spiritually blind.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:48 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      just sayin
      Ya ya ya. For thousands of years you people have been stomping your foot, and slamming your fists, saying "my god is the one true god", and "you just don't understand". In the end, you are ALL wrong, and ALL the same. There is not one shred of evidence for any of it.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • LinCA

      @just sayin

      You said, "Jesus of Nazareth is the evidence."
      So, you got nothing then?

      The only account of your guy is in your book of fairy tales. There is no credible evidence he actually existed, let alone that he was special in any way.

      January 24, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @just sayin
      And the silo full of grain is the proof that the God to whom the aforementioned 7 year old was scrificed is real.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • The Maurey Povich Bible Show

      You are spiritually blind. Macaroni is the evidence for the pasta god.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • Nope

      "Mankind was given the responsibility for looking after each other by God. People are starving means we are not living up to our God given assignment to care for our brothers ans sisters. People are starving guess who is responsible? You are and I am."

      They are still praying to your God and still starving to death, still proving prayer doesn't work.

      January 24, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • fred

      LinCA
      The proof that the Bibe is not fairy tales is in your very replys. The Bible clearly states that non believers will be under great delusion beleiving their own knowledge rather than the truth. Yes?

      2,000 years ago in 2 Timothy 3 we have: "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power."

      Now, given you can withness this today is that not proof the Bible is perhaps a bit more than a tale?

      January 24, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • *facepalm*

      @fred, Nostradamus' pred.icitions were more specific than that. You could point to evidence of that 'prophecy' being true at any point in human history.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • Bizarre

      *facepalm* (and fred),

      Yes, gypsy fortunetellers' and the Psychic Hotline's prophecies are more specific than Paul of Tarsus's.

      fred, Paul was a silver-tongued blowhard.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
    • fred

      Bizarre
      *facepalm*
      So, it is true and that was my point to LinCA that truth in the Bible is proof that it is not a fairy tale. Paul as you recall received most of his truth about Christ from Jesus long after Jesus ascended to heaven. I can see that because it happened to me. I saw the truth by revelation of the Holy Spirit just as Jesus said anyone who seeks with a contrite and sincere heart would receive. That personal experience allows me to understand that Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. This guy went from chasing down Christians with a sword to being the spearhead of the church of Christ.

      January 24, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      fred, if we told them that they had the mark of the beast, they'd all look for it, then deny its existence because it isn't visible until they open their mouths.

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • Bizarre

      fred,

      Well, saying that you (and Paul of Tarsus) had supernatural visions that the rest of us have not, is a conversation stopper right there. You (and Paul) can therefore say *anything* and expect it to be taken as fact because it was 'revealed' supernaturally to you. Nope.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • fred

      Bizarre
      Of course it is supernatural. How do you expect God who is outside of our time and space to relate with a limited physical humanoid? God revealed himself through the Bible, through creation and through the Holy Spirit. Jesus was about as close to a physical representation we will have and when Jesus left he said “I must go so that the Holy Spirit that reveals all truth can come” This Holy Spirit is what set the apostles on fire for God. Recall that they were afraid to go outside their hiding place, Peter denied knowing Christ 3 times, doubting Thomas was more than a skeptic and Paul was wild Christian killing Jew. Suddenly, these men did a 180 and were willing to die and suffer great torture to proclaim Christ. What was that if not the power of the Holy Spirit?

      January 24, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • fred

      Heaven Sent
      Sounds like you have been reading Revelations again. It is interesing how many of todays graphics come out the Bible when evil and doom are brought into artistic representation. That too shows the truth of the Bible in that they glorify the beast yet do not even know what they are gloryifying. The delusion is complete as God gave them over to their own delusions.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • Bizarre

      fred, "were willing to die and suffer great torture to proclaim Christ. What was that if not the power of the Holy Spirit?"

      The same type of "power" that causes Muslim suicide bombers to die for Allah. The same type of "power" that caused oodles of folks to die with/for Jim Jones, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate, etc. etc. Call it what you want... I tend to go with, "delusion".

      January 24, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • fred

      All I know is that the Bible was a bunch of nonsense, stupid stories about big fish and big boats from a people that depended on fish and water. One day after suffering great loss I picked up Bible that miraculously wound up in my trunk. I read it beginning where it was cracked open because the red letters seemed very important. Suddenly I was convicted of all my sin, asked for forgiveness and the entire book began to open up. I could not put it down. The fish story was no longer a fish story but one of renewal for a lost godless people, the ark was now Gods protective nature bringing Noah and his family to safety. I was born again just as Jesus said. How can I deny what I experienced and saw?
      I look at the bombers you mentioned and know that 20,000 alone went through one school in Saudi with total emersion and control by a cleric. That is different from my experience as it was a transformation not indoctrination. Even so, only a small percentage becomes bombers. In this country we have our version of bombers like McVeigh where we can see thought immersed in evil. As to Jim Jones I understand drugs were part of the overall experience to begin with and Heaven’s Gate story I did not follow.
      Either way the power of the Holy Spirit resulted in the biggest event in history to date. There are few places you can go in the world where the name of Jesus is not known

      January 24, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Fred
      There are few places in the world you can go where the name Mickey Mouse is unknown.
      That doesn't make him real.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • fred

      Doc
      Thanks, next time anyone questions why would God do that I can sing M I C K E Y why because he loves you !
      It time we give God an extreme makeover on this belief site.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "the ark was now Gods protective nature bringing Noah and his family to safety"

      You forgot about the rest of civilization that it murdered to do it. What an idiot.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "There are few places you can go in the world where the name of Jesus is not known"

      LOL! Yet only 30% of the people on this planet are considered Christians. LOL! Yeah he's really known, only if you're delusional.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • fred

      Yeah Right
      As to the Ark M I C K E Y why........because he loves you...............!
      As to the rest your argument about God killing the rest of civilization that is the Dawkins mickey mouse argument. Check out the correct Hebrew translation and you will see God blotted out the ungodly generation of Cain. Be thankful for the use of that word as it gives hope to the atheist and is the foundation of their belief. To be blotted out is to never have existed in the first place is one possible take. You believe (without any evidence) that when you die nothingness is your reward well I pray that you are correct. The common view of this verse is that they were blotted out from the record but will be toast soon enough.
      Your mickey mouse nonsense is just that. Atheists totally mess the story behind the flood because they are not looking for the truth in the story that applies to their lives they are looking for the applause of fellow atheists. The story is simple God chooses people that have hearts inclined to the things of God and it is God that carries them to safety above the troubled waters of life, safe inside the ark (remember the ark is where Hebrews had the image of God), remember that it is in Christ we are safe with future assured. What happens to the rest...............well I hope they are only blotted out.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • J.W

      So Yeahright have you never heard the name Jesus? Do you have to be a Christian to have heard the name Jesus? LMAO idiot

      January 24, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • fred

      J.W
      Ouch, I don't recall you ever using the "LAMO idiot" closing remark. Unless you were spoofing those that are running an app that automatically subst-itutes that closing from their I phone.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "The proof that the Bibe is not fairy tales is in your very replys. The Bible clearly states that non believers will be under great delusion beleiving their own knowledge rather than the truth. Yes?"

      Really fred, that's your "proof"? Tell me that you really aren't that moronically stupid. Please tell me that you are just joking. You've got to be fucking kidding me, right?

      If I say: "Believers will not believe what I say", there are basically two possibilities. All believers will suddenly shed their delusions and see the light (not very likely), or I will be right. So, because I am right, I am correct in everything that I say.

      There you have it. Proof, by your rules, that I am correct and that you are wrong. Are you convinced?

      Your book of fairy tales is riddled with blatant errors. The fact that anyone takes it seriously is beyond comprehension. It's garbage. It holds no truth. None. You can't use it to prove it is correct by quoting from it.

      You said, "2,000 years ago in 2 Timothy 3 we have: "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power."
      Now, given you can withness this today is that not proof the Bible is perhaps a bit more than a tale?
      "

      The end times delusion, again? You can find all these "predictions" to be "true" at any time in history. They are not specific to anything that is happening today.

      Quoting your nonsensical book of fairy tales proves nothing.

      So, cheer up. Live a little. Drop that Bronze Age fairy tale. There is nothing to lose.

      January 24, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "demons attach themselves to dead souls." Is that what's hanging off HS's butt?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • sam

      Demon dingleberry LOL

      January 24, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
  15. PrayerDoesNotWorkAndOnlyWorksForThePersonPraying

    Do not waste your time praying...there is no evidence that it works for anyone other than to appease the person praying...they get a warm fuzzy feeling from it.
    Do not preach that prayer works unless you have solid evidence that can be backed by numerous re-occurrences of the same prayer.
    Stop wasting your time and do something that actually makes a difference.

    January 24, 2012 at 6:18 am |
    • Mirosal

      Two hands at work can do far more than a thousand hands clasped in prayer. Give a man a fish he eats for a day , teach him to fish and he eats for life ... give a man religion and he dies of starvation praying for a fish.

      January 24, 2012 at 6:24 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Two hands need a plan. What better instruction can one get than insight from the creator God? It is better to pray then act on the prayer. The same God made man and the fish, God knows more about fishing than you do.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:03 am |
    • Mirosal

      one does not need any kind of deity to build something. And it doesn't take any 'god' to learn how to fish. If you have to act on the prayer, then why pray at all? Stop wasting the time praying and just DO something ... no middleman and no 'god' needed.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:08 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Without God you would have nothing, so you do in fact need God. All knowledge comes from God shared with man for the betterment of mankind. Man gains insight in his communications with God, be it in thought, dream, vision or personal revelation.Communication with God is prayer.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      What use is prayer at all. If things are meant to unfold according to God's plan isn't praying to change an outcome asking God to alter his plan? Isn't that like suggesting that he made a mistake that needs your intervention to correct? If this isn't the case then all the prayer in the world is totally pointless since things are going to proceed just as they would if no prayers were given. Again what is the point? Either prayer doesn't do diddly or God keeps making dumb mistakes that need fixing. Not exactly a glowing endorsement for his all-powerful all-knowingness now is it?

      January 24, 2012 at 7:18 am |
    • Mirosal

      If prayer is needed then your 'god' is not omniscient. There goes one of the cardinal doctrines of the x-tard faith. If your imaginary friend is omniscient, then the game is already rigged and no amount of praying will change it.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:29 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      G'morning Mirosal. Yes the obvious paradox seems lost on the christards but then logical thinking isn't their strong suit. Prayer is useless, miracles never happen and God, souls, heaven and hell are complete fiction.

      January 24, 2012 at 7:56 am |
    • Mirosal

      And hello to you Sir Steve, KBE. 🙂 They say logic and reason are the enemies of faith, and this is a prime example as to why. Open a buy-bull, close the mind .. close that book, open your mind.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:04 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Atheism is not Healthy
      God has clearly demonstrated that He does not want man to pursue knowledge.
      In the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Original Sin is becoming aware of who and what we are.
      Our species has been forever punished for curiosity.
      The story of the Tower of Babel is another fine example of God sp.anking humanity for working together towards a common goal. God is the cause of tribalism. God ensured strife between tribes by taking away our means to communicate effectively.
      3 of the 10 commandments can effectively be described as God saying "Obey Me Without Question".
      No – God has a proven track record of hindering our species' quest for knowlege, so why would I ask Him for direction?

      January 24, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      Your conclusions are as flawed as your cold dead soul rotting within you and corrupting your mind.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:52 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @bringoutyourdead
      And what conclusions did you draw from those two Biblical stories?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:10 am |
    • bringoutyourdead

      the right ones

      January 24, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @bringoutyourdead
      That's the kind of answer I'd expect from a petulant child!
      According to you, what – SPECIFICALLY- are the right conclusions?

      January 24, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • just helping out

      answer for doc posted at wrong place

      January 24, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Actually, Mirosal, Christians know that to teach an individual what the Bible says, they have knowledge for a day; teach an individual to study the Bible, and they have knowledge for a lifetime.

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, you still don't get it when you posted "@Atheism is not Healthy
      God has clearly demonstrated that He does not want man to pursue knowledge.
      In the Judeo-Christian mythology, the Original Sin is becoming aware of who and what we are.
      Our species has been forever punished for curiosity.
      The story of the Tower of Babel is another fine example of God sp.anking humanity for working together towards a common goal. God is the cause of tribalism. God ensured strife between tribes by taking away our means to communicate effectively.
      3 of the 10 commandments can effectively be described as God saying "Obey Me Without Question".
      No – God has a proven track record of hindering our species' quest for knowlege, so why would I ask Him for direction?"

      Answer: You are so off the mark on this one Doc. You truly believe your ideas come on your own? Ideas and thoughts are passed down from generation to generation. You may have added or subtracted a thought, turned it around ... then run to a patent office to claim it as your own ... to sadly find out, tens of thousands before you had the same idea. There's more to telling your big egos it's blown out of proportion ... but, when I have time, I'll write it.

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      Dawkins describes how ideas have propogated throughout history in his "meme" theory.
      Look it up – (and not just the watered-down, colloquial use of the term).

      January 24, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      You get another thump on your head Doc. Jesus' truth has been around longer than Dawkins. As I said, thoughts handed down from generation to generation ... taking an idea from here and adding it to there ... building off each other and Jesus is the cornerstone.

      Amen.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I'm not saying that Dawkins theory pre-dates christianity.
      I'm saying that he has elucidated the mechanisms by which mythologies stay alive and permeate the cultural subconscious.
      Those things that "everybody knows" – yet which turn out to be of dubious veracity.

      January 24, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • VanHagar

      @steve and mirosal–your arguments are fallacious–its a false alternative argument. You claim that prayer (a) indicates that God made a mistake that we (apparently) need to ask for correction or (b) that God is not omniscient. Yet, you fail to consider that, while God knows exactly what we are going to request (as if prayer were nothing more than a time set aside to make demands) before we request it, he is looking for a relationship with us–that is an ongoing biblical theme. In human terms, that requires communication (prayer). If you look at prayer as nothing more than "give me" you won't understand it at all.

      January 24, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Ironicus

      VanHagar (is that you, Lycidas?), you seem to assume "prayer" is "communication" yet you cannot prove that the "god" end of the conversation even exists in any way, shape, or form.
      Thus, you can make all the claims you want, but can back up ZERO of them as regards the existence of your "god".

      "Faith" cannot be proven because it is bullshlt. I can prove it's bullshlt. You cannot prove it is real because it isn't real.
      It's just bullshlt.

      January 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • VanHagar

      Ironicus...misplaced my post–see above at 5:26. And no, I'm not Lycidas.

      January 24, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Heaven'sStinkBomb sez: Jesus' truth has been around longer than Dawkin's.

      So what? You've been around longer than dirt. Doesn't make your words any less worthless.

      January 24, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.