By Aaron Cooper, CNN
(CNN) - Passengers on Alaska Airlines will no longer get a free Psalm with their meal.
On Wednesday, the airline announced it is ending its more than 30-year tradition of including printed cards with short Bible verses during meal service.
“I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name O most high,” was written on one card, over an image of foggy blue mountains. Another card featured these words over a beach at sunset: "Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.”
The cards have been distributed on trays with Alaska Airlines meals since the 1970s, according to airline spokeswoman Bobbie Egan. Since 2006, only passengers in First Class on longer Alaska Airlines flights have been served meals, so only a small percent of passengers received a card.
“This difficult decision was not made lightly,” the airline’s top executives said an email to frequent passengers. “We believe it's the right thing to do in order to respect the diverse religious beliefs and cultural attitudes of all our customers and employees.”
“We also know some of you consider the cards to be a tradition that reflects your own spiritual beliefs,” the email said. “At the same time, we've heard from many of you who believe religion is inappropriate on an airplane, and some are offended when we hand out the cards.”
Kathy Hosford, of Dyea, Alaska told CNN Affiliate that ““I take the time to read them. It really tells me the airline cares about the people sitting there.”
Others disagree. “Religious attitudes do vary,” Egan says, and “a large percent of residents in markets that we do serve on the West Coast say religion is not important to them.”
“We have been keeping track over the recent years and we are receiving more complaints than compliments” says Egan. Between 1998 and 2002 they received 242 complaints and 141 compliments about the cards.
The idea to distribute the cards in the first place came from a marketing executive who borrowed the idea from another carrier as a way to differentiate Alaska’s service, according to the airline’s statement.
But that view has now changed. “A business that aspires to be diverse and inclusive shouldn't have a religious agenda. Religious beliefs are deeply personal and vary greatly among our customers” Egan said in an emailed statement.
The decision to eliminate the cards was made last fall, she says, and takes effect on February 1. No decision yet about what to do with the leftovers.
Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hoby.
Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god or gods. Dont try to over think this, not that there is muhc of a chance of that happening to someone who is religious.
im not religious. and just because you are doesnt make you right. atheists are the most pushy bunch of religious nutcakes ive ever seen. the ONLY group who doesnt know, or denies their religion like they deny god. In 50 years maybe you will deny you even exist and the brainwashing cycle can start over again
Oh no. Another f-tard that cant think. Atheists are a-religiouis at least and ir-religious at most.
"Fear not the Ori, fear the darkness that would conceal the knowledge of the universe. Believe in the truth of all things, and you too may find the path to enlightenment."
"Hallowed are the children of the Ori."
Look up the definition of RELIGION on http://www.merriam-webster.com. I'd post it for you but these cursed filters won't allow it.
Atheism is NOT a religion. Insisting that it is, does not make it so, it just makes you look silly. And you believe in god, you most certainly are religious.
thanks for the link.."a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith ".. sure sounds like atheism to me. and who says i believe in god? you are making assumptions and getting angry at me over nothing.. nice.. how very religious of you
You aren't religious? Please. You clearly worship at the Church of the Almighty Troll.
By the way, feel free to list the "10 denominations of atheism" you alluded to in an earlier post. I'm sure all us atheists are waiting with bated breath to find out what we actually believe.
Where did I get angry there? My beliefs are not faith-based. Using your own definition, you have to be religious because you don’t allow for neutrality on the subject. You either believe in supernatural god(s) or you don’t, and to you, both of those positions are equally religious.
Atheism is a religion just like bald is a hair color. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. I am not sure why religious people seem to have problems grasping this.
Doubt me? Go look up the word atheism in a dictionary. Go ahead. I will wait.
@marilynn I don't think of atheism as a religion. However, atheism now has a character. It has the character that the atheists have given it. What kind of character? Well, you've read their comments.
THis has been an informative blog. It has allowed us to discover atheists. When their paper-thin arguments are challenged, atheists immediately collapse into emotionalism which eclipses their self-vaunted reasoning power. I think we can dismiss them.
@catholic engineer: You said, "I think we can dismiss them."
So...nothing new then. Not unexpected.
a group of people gather in a building to talk about god. they take collections and spend the money to spread their ideas on god. They actively participate in trying to convince people of other religions they are wrong. This is what athiests do. and you tell me that doesnt sound religious? you guys are caught up in thinking religion means believing in God. sorry to burst your bubble. Wow, and you guys say religious people are in denial and living a fantasy..
Generalize much? I am not certain what "paper thin" arguments you are refering to, but I doubt that atheists as a whole base their theological opinions on "emotion" as you claim. Atheists that I have met have used used reason to overcome religious indoctrination, and do not believe in a higher power just because it makes them feel loved.
Still waiting on that list of 10 denominations of atheism...
According to marilynn, atheism is a religion.
According to the Oxford dictionary, religion is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods
According to the Oxford dictionary, atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
If I had to choose an expert on the definition of the term "atheism" I am going with Oxford's.
There are those atheists who are very anti-religious, and study up on religion to argue against it, but I do not think that discussing religion makes them religious. No more so than discussing the zoo would make them penguins..
@saopaco: Just let it drop. They're so happy to have found something that gets the non-believers riled that they'll continue to throw it out there until you stop taking the bait.
I don't know what atheists you have been talking to but most of use don't "collapse into emotionalism", in fact, I've seen many theists do this when trying to have a calm, logical conversation with them. They just get angry and start to make personal attacks. I've seen this multiple times and it's because most of the time, their arguments are so paper thin that a small child could poke holes in their reasoning. So I think you're just talking to theists pretending to be atheists trying to get a rise out of people. Talk to a real atheist and you should be able to tell a difference.
Perhaps, Sean. Then again, I always hope that it is just a matter of clarification on my part that will allow a person with a misguided view of atheism to come to a better understanding. Usually, they do not. =)
saopaco.. oh, you will believe what oxford says? heres their definition of religion "a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion".. now what? i would say athiests pursue their interests with great devotion.. so once again, you have RELIGIOUSLY chose to edit the facts to prove your point. such a shame.. such a sham..
oh, and sean. Im done with you. I have no interest in communicating with someone who states they will use a prayer card to slice open someones neck to murder them... you are a certifiable nutjob.. seek help
@marilynn: Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I'd suggest a continuing education course. Most communities have them for little or no fee.
using your interpretation of the Oxford definition, then many things could be religion. I have a friend who is a football fanatic. Does that make football a religion? As a youth, I was an avid coin collector. Was I practicing some sort of currency based religion? If you argue more than five hours a week on the Internet, does it make arguing your official religion?
Atheism is not a religion, no matter how vehemently insist that it is. Then again, perhaps redefining atheism is your religion?
oh, okay. ill quote you word for word then.. "fashioning it into a paper mache shank and sticking it in the jugular vein of a flight attendant".. So, have fun in your world of denial. you sound like a really scary person with a lot of delusions. Good luck with your life, and i sincerely mean this. you might really need some help. bye
"using your interpretation of the Oxford definition"... nice, i quote EXACTLY oxfords definition, as you instructed i do, and you come back and call it my "interpretation".. sorry man, i cant go round and round with you. just because you have become what you most despise doesnt make me wrong.. just get a grip..
@marilynn: You can take a break. No one's buying it.
ha ha, okay sean. ill take off now. dont go slicing open womens necks with prayer cards now, id like to come back and have you entertain me some other day.
It is your interpretation. Words do not have absolute value. Words only have the values that we agree to assign to them. Oxford has two definitions: One is about belief in a higher power (ie a god), and the other makes it possible to say that anything is a religion, so long as a person has great devotion to whatever it may be. Oxford's example is about consumerism. Do you then equate consumerism with catholocism? Personally, I do not.
I will admit that there are atheists out there that are very dedicated to arguing with theists in the hopes of getting them to use reason instead of blind faith. I do not consider that to be their religion as there is no belief in gods required to promote reason.
What have I become, marilynn? You assume that I am an atheist, when i am not.
@saopaco:” I am not sure why religious people seem to have problems grasping this.”
Oh they understand, they are just trying to bring atheists down to their level
Atheism is not a religion for example atheists don’t fly planes into buildings in the name of not-god
I'm reading some of these comments and I feel like I need to point something out to all the theists. Atheists DO NOT HATE GOD! We just don't believe. Most of us find the whole idea of a god dumb. We get angry when someone tries to 'prove' their god exists without a single real fact. I don't care if you believe in the cookie monster, whatever you believe in, just keep it to yourself! And out of my life! So no more public displays of religion or trying to pass legislation on one of your stupid ideals that no one else shares!
There, that's my rant for today.
actually, there are over 10 different denominations in the athiest religions. you speaking for the rest is pretty arrogant. some of the athiests i hung out with would laugh at you for this post.. just sayin
I did say most, not all. Also, atheism isn't a religion. You saying there are over 10 denominations makes no sense at all...
The media constantly sticks your world and your world view in the Christians face. You love to burn Bibles and point a sharp stick at Christians 500 years ago that burned the tastless images of that era. I cannot walk down a mall in America without victoria secret front and center. Exactly how are you the offended one.
atheism is indeed a religion. just because you dont get that doesnt make it so. imagine me saying "christianity isnt a religion".. youd think i was nuts.. of course athiesm is a religion, and there are MANY different denominations of it. Some believe in the idea of "good" and "bad", others think those concepts are religious and dont subscribe to any form of goodness or badness. others believe in faith, others think faith is just a chemical reaction. many many branches of athiesm..
That has nothing to do with atheism. It's not even comparable. Plus, Victoria secret isn't trying to pass laws saying there has to be one of these posters in every mall. Whereas I see Christians all the time trying to make it a law to put up the ten commandments in every courtroom in the country.
And who burns bibles, I've never heard of groups of atheists getting together to burn bibles, but I have heard of Christians doing this to any book that contains evolution
who gave christians the right to decide what is tasteless or not? and I don't remember burning any bibles. more likely I would use a bible as toilet paper or maybe as compost filler, but not burning.
You're blaming atheists for the stores in your local mall?
Does that mean I can blame Christianity for insipid television shows like Full House?
"The media constantly sticks your world and your world view in the Christians face."
Every time I use the cash in my pocket I am constantly reminded of the Christian view.
Doc! What's up? That was pretty funny btw, "Full House" LOL.
I'm The Best
No one is arguing to put the 10 commandments up we have trying to stop them from being torn down. Even the best schools of this country were founded by Christians and began with Christian ways. The schools went to great effort over the years to hide their origin, Courts removed the commandments and Christianity was relegated out of the public square where it had been for thousands of years. You may cheer at the direction in your favor and applaud the shallow victory for atheists but, stop the delusion. It is not Christians pushing their way on the godless into closets rather the godless pushing Christians into their closets.
I think public displays of religion should be ok as long as they are not in a government facility or something paid for by taxpayer money.
"something paid for by taxpayer money."
So we can get rid of In God We Trust on our money, Yippee!
@fred: One question...
What color is the sky in your world?
Touched by an angel trumps a full house. In my world when you go to the river you do not get an inside straight rather baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit.
yo. The federal reserve prints the money, and its a privately held bank.. see how blind you actually are? the federal reserve isnt anymore part of the government that federal express..
The sky in my world has no color. My optic nerves however recognize the spectrum of light as it comes through our atmosphere. Today it is a rose color.............oops forgot to take my sunglasses off.
"he federal reserve prints the money, and its a privately held bank."
The Federal Reserve System's structure is composed of the presidentially appointed Board of Governors (or Federal Reserve Board), the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation, numerous privately owned U.S. member banks and various advisory councils. The FOMC is the committee responsible for setting monetary policy and consists of all seven members of the Board of Governors and the twelve regional bank presidents, though only five bank presidents vote at any given time. The Federal Reserve System has both private and public components, and was designed to serve the interests of both the general public and private bankers. The result is a structure that is considered unique among central banks. It is also unusual in that an entity outside of the central bank, namely the United States Department of the Treasury, creates the currency used
Fred, just because Christianity has had its fingers in everything for a long time doesn't make it okay for it to be there. If there was a 200 year old public school started by Muslims with a lot of things from them on the walls, you would be right here with me trying to get it torn down. We aren't pushing our ideas onto Christians, we're trying to remove Christian ideas from everyone else. We aren't forcing anything on christians, we are stopping Christians from forcing thongs on us.
Send me some money and I will co produce a show with you. Baptism for atheists. It would be like that show where you eat worms and stuff only we will make atheists do things like bow down, get baptised, see the truth........
so you can copy n paste. congrats. your dollar bills are still privately held and "in god we trust" belongs to the fed, not the people.. good try though.
And a rare bit of lucidity shows through the fog.
I am the Best
No, it would be part of our heritage, our world view, who we were. Part of what communism wanted to do was remove the ties of history and break community so that the State would be the bonding agent.
We are not like Stalin, Mao or the Tallaban that smashed antiquity to clear the mind. We are where we are because of the world view that began with the Jew and ended with the resurection of Jesus. Know your history so you do not repeat the same mistakes of the past.
"world view that began with the Jew and ended with the resurection of Jesus"
It is quite obvious that your worldview stopped updating 2,000 years ago, but thanks for the confirmation.
"your dollar bills are still privately held and "in god we trust" belongs to the fed, not the people.. good try though."
That's why "In God We Trust" was just reaffirmed by congress in Nov.
yo. until you understand that the government itself is a privately held corporation you arent going to get anywhere. good luck with life. youre in for a bumpy ride.
Atheism most definately is NOT a religion. Otherwisw, not collecting stamps would be a hobby, and bald would be a hair color. Repeating a lie over and over will not make it true.
@marilynn: Do you consider the Republican party or the Democratic party a religion? When grouped together, they generally believe the same thing.
So you would be okay with this hypothetical school, even though your tax dollars are paying for everyone to see something that you don't believe in, and maybe even your kids go to that school and see indoctrinating words from a different religion than your own. You would still be okay with them leaving it up? I highly doubt it.
The courts have ruled over and over again that atheism is a religion and have given full religeous rights to atheists to practice their belief with equality to that of any other faith. Do your homework
@fred: no court could ever make that ruling...atheism is the lack of a belief in a god and therefore does not qualify as a religion...we do have various religions that fall under atheism-Buddhism, Jainism,...to name a couple
religion defined is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Atheism does not fall under that!
I'm The Best
You need to go to some public schools. They study Islam and the middle east being intentionally taught tollarence to religion. What you also see is that Jesus , the Bible or Christianity cannot be mentioned. In California after 911 special sections were included to promote Islam as a religion of peace yet not a word about Christ who peace I bring to you. The only mention in elementry schools is of religeous wars brought on by the church with support of priests.
the Seventh U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Wisconsin prison officials were mistaken when they did not recognize atheism as a religion. The court stated that atheism is inmate's religion and that the group he wished to start "was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being."
Fred wrote, " I cannot walk down a mall in America without victoria secret front and center."
When did Victoria's Secret become a storefront church of atheism?
Whenever I sneak in to one of the little "confessionals", they call me a pervert and yell for security.
Here is another one for you: Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003) ('If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.')"
"The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a 'religion' for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions"
They referred to another Supreme Court decision (Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985)), where the court said:
"At one time it was thought that this right [referring to the right to choose one’s own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism. But when the underlying principle has been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all."
"religion defined is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe," last time i checked, athiests regularly discuss the cause, nature and purpose of the universe.
Classes are fine, if you want to take a class in religion, feel free. What I'm talking about is scripture on the walls of the building that people would see every day. And you're telling me you would want a school to leave up "Praise be to Allah" above the front door where your kids would read it everyday as they walked into the school. I don't believe you would be fine with that.
I'm The Best
Ok, unless the school was secular and only leaving old historic stuff up I would have a problem. But, I have no problem with Allah which actually reinforces the truths of the Bible when I see it because I think of Ishmael and his decendents which is the source of the problem between arabs and jews. If kids went to that school they need to know where Mohomed got his Quran.
Not teaching the Bible in school is not the problem, the problem is the subtle constant suggestion that it is myth
I don't have a problem with any religion really, just when they have it for everyone to see and present it as fact. You go ahead and believe, just keep it out of public areas. I don't even mind optional religious classes, just don't present it to everyone implying that your religion is the one true religion. That's what atheists are fighting for, not to destroy religion (some are, but most aren't) but to keep it from being everywhere in public. Keep the ten commandments out of courtrooms, keep religious belief out of politics, and take the religious slogan off our money.
I'm The Best
That has never worked over the long haul. There is always a group to put down or a group to raise up. Even atheism would begin to build upon some aspect if dominated. Communism cannot succeed because a level playing field goes against our core design.
Why not procalim Christianity in public and put all other beleifs and non beleifs in the closet? We never once did what God or Jesus said we should do as a society and you have no idea how that would work. We know atheism does not work as a core belief for a society so we certainly would not want to try that would we?
Communism and Atheism are not the same thing, I'm an atheist, but I'm not a commie. My views about government are actually pretty republican. I'm an independent but I lean more conservative. We know that communism doesn't work, but a government with atheism as core values hasn't been tried yet. There are a few countries that are majority atheist and they have a normal government that works fine. I think the Swiss government is like that (don't hold me to that, I may be mistaken), it's a little liberal for my taste but my point is communism is not the same as atheism.
Comparing atheism to communism is like comparing christianity to a supreme ruler like it was in the middle ages. They just aren't the same.
@fred:” I cannot walk down a mall in America without victoria secret front and center”
Typical paranoid Christian wingnut, sees conspiracies everywhere, like the Victoria’s Secret is conspiring with atheists
Its their airline and they have every right to distribute these cards as they see fit. I would exercised my rights by ripping it in half and tossing it on the floor.
The godless one has spoken. Such contrast from the love expressed on the cards to the hate and darkness in the soul of the godless. Interesting point is you do not even see the dark that has consumed your mind and heart. Oh, I am just so offended by the word kindness, goodness, love, patience...................
Your vision of life fits the vision of your end. Nothingness, void, empty, without feeling........Yep you atheists take the cake.
"The godless one has spoken. Such contrast from the love expressed on the cards to the hate and darkness in the soul of the godless. Interesting point is you do not even see the dark that has consumed your mind and heart"
Lying is a sin moron.
You sure read a lot into those stupid cards. And it's pretty presumptious of you to declare Earthling as 'godless' just because she/he doesn't agree with your particular kind of insanity.
"I would exercised my rights by ripping it in half and tossing it on the floor"
earthling could not simply ignore the card he ripped it. Now that sounds like an act of goodness from the heart.
earthling tossed it on the floor showing total disrespect for everyone all around and making the crew bend down to earthlings godlessness.
What part of earthlings dark heart can you not see?
hmmm... He tore up a piece of paper, so what? He threw it on the floor. Rude maybe, but I wouldn't presume to judge him as godless or disrepectful to your cult. And the flight attendants don't pick up your garbage. Service techs do, but guess what? That's their job. I think it makes you feel righteous when you spout of your indignant judgements to people who think differently than you. In fact I think you get off on it, in your trolly kind of way.
actually, you are so blinded by your religious preference, you think its a "right" and thats scary. you dont have a "right" to rip up property of the airline. if they offered me literature on a credit card and i got offended, i cant just go ripping up their property.. you guys are really scary.. whats next? you have a right to shoot people for offending you?
@marilynn: Once they gave it to me, it's no longer airline property. It's mine, and short of fashioning it into a paper mache shank and sticking it in the jugular vein of a flight attendant, I'm fairly certain I could do with it what I wanted.
Including ripping it in half, using one half to wipe my mouth, and the other half to wipe my other half later on.
sean. actually, unless you buy it you do not own it. if they handed you headphones to use and you broke them youd either have to pay for it or youd be taken to jail. And your rant about sticking someones vein and killing them shows how immature you actually are. im embarrased im actually talking to you. thanks for shedding some light on your viewpoint though. religious nutjob.
Are fred and marilynn the same person? I see a radical difference in posting style between "marilynn" and "Marilynn."
I'm afraid fred may have had a full-blown psychotic break.
sean. you just went on a rant about slicing open a stewardess' neck with a prayer card. and you are saying im having a psychotic breakdown? wow.. one word for you.. lithium
It would be more than a mental break down and need to include physical as well. Marilynn uses feminine words and displays sensitive qualities. With the exception of the cat sitting on my lap we are very different.
@marilynn: As I mentioned in the other thread, your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I'd suggest a continuing education course. Most communities have them for little or no fee.
@fred: My apologies. Regardless of our differences, I can say you've never intentionally misrepresented my position.
marilynn you are an absolute nightmare...so if the stewardess gives you a napkin (which is essentially, if not exactly the same as those stupid cards), then it would be like ripping up the airlines property if I tore it in half? You produce logical fallacies faster then the sun creates light.
Cave ab homine unius libri
As an agnostic who has flown Alaska, seen their prayer cards, and wondered how much of my fare was truly relative to flying. A prayer card isn't (unless you're trying to tell us about poor maintenance ).
It was creepy to get those messages. No meals, so eat this. God people are the most violent, intolerant people on earth. There is no compromise, believe or suffer. I will only respect religion when they end fighting and war. If there is one god why can't all the god people get along? Because they react on an emotional level and reject rational thought and compromise.
Ive hung out with a ton of "god people" and never seen a drop of violence. But thanks for showing your bigotry and prejudice. Hitler kind of thought like you did. Grouping people together and assigning them to a certain fate. Scary
It was "god people" who flew planes into buildings.
It was a "god person" who blew up a building in Oklahoma City.
It was "god people" who killed black folks for wanting to vote, or just looked at a white woman.
It is "god people" on these very threads who call for the death of gay folks.
@Primework I lost a good friend in the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995. It was not "god" people who did this violence. It was "god" people who cleaned up the mess. McVey was a nut responding to a government action in Texas.
And yet again: the twentieth century was the most godless and bloody, period in human history. Admit this.
I've posted this before: In the 1960's and '70's the "un-god" people threw off all religious authority and began a Secksual Revolution, "free love", "if it feels good do it", up with R v Wade and to hell with fatherhood. The "un-god" people fostered a culture that produced an AIDS epidemic, a thriving abortion industry, a huge population of struggling single mothers, a 60% divorce rate, and rampant teen pregnancy. If I were an "un-god" person, I couldn't stand to look into a mirror either.
"Believe in the truth of all things and you too may find the path to enlightenment."
Engineer: you're a troll, right? Because I have to believe that someone stating such idiocy as facts wouldn't be able to string together a sentence in English.
You can't use the "No True Scotsman" fallacy to defend McVeigh. He believed his actions were serving a higher power. He did what he did because of his religious and political convictions. Just like the terrorists who bomb abortion clinics (yes, they are terrorists).
As for your great fear of non-monogamy and the decline of marriage, please be aware that divorce rates are higher in more religiously conservative states. So that kind of shatters your tidy little image of godless heathens destroying marriages.
In the 60's and 70's the church molested childen. Priests abused their positions of authority with impunity. Suppressed women's rights. Forced women to have back alley abortions at the risk of their lives. Caused undue hardship to families with excessive amounts of children. Dictated what people should watch, hear and know.
um, actually.. oaklahoma bombing wasnt about god at all..there was no religion involved. 9/11 hijackers was politically motivated, not religiously. in fact, the hijackers regularly drank and visited strip bars. strictly forbidden for muslims. and im sorry to tell you this, but racism has nothing to do with religion. its shame people like you are so filled with hatred towards god that you just blindly believe what people tell you.. i wish people would think
@deadlyserious and probono: In the 1960's I grew up near a Benedictine monastery. I was alone with numerous priests in sacristies, cars, houses, and swimming pools. NOT ONCE was I ever set upon in any inappropriate way. While you scholars have merely read the papers, I have heavy personal experience.
My friends name was Diane. She had a son and grandson. At her memorial service there was no body. In Father Mike's words, "The body was unviewable."
Your beliefs are fragile. Hold onto your very few data points against "god" people. You have so little to justify your disbelief.
McVeigh was a fundiot – fundamentalist ldiot – who was torqued off over the wacky fundiot Koresh in Waco.
The fundiot muslims where trying to fit in. Plus they knew they were on their way to heaven and all those virgins.
You really don't see racism in your religion? Are you blind? Why was the SBC formed? Think it's all in the past? In a poll from April, half of all republicans in Mississippi said interracial marriage should be illegal. Hmmmmm – republicans in Mississippi – I'm betting that there is about a 0.99999999 correlation between republican in Mississippi and christian.
@marilynn – Just as an FYI (you can take it or leave it, I don't really care) you are not supposed to believe everything Fox news says. McVeigh said a higher power drove him to do it, and the 9-11 terrorists were muslim fundamentalist extremists. Saying it was political and not religious is simply ridiculas. And frankly, if you have never seen one of these 'people' yelling out "Allah Ahkbar" before blowing themselves up, your opinion on whether it was political or religiously motivated is inconsequential. Bottom-line you are obviously too stupid to have a conversation with about this topic.
@cath putz – De asini vmbra disceptare
"you are not supposed to believe everything Fox news says."... hilarious coming from a guy posting on a CNN forum. who am i supposed to believe? YOU? ha ha.. please..
Non sequitur – look it up
meh. no thanks. youve lost relevance.
"if it did not present a real threat to your soul. Even if you do not believe God or the Bible the principles were right on then and today."
Total B.S. the 100 of thousand of experts have shown the prejudice and bigotry of the past against this group, so it' wasn't right then but we are slowly getting it right today, we are not there yet until they have equal rights.
You want bible verses on your flight? Bring your own freakin bible to read. I can't believe they ever did this in the first place. Setting aside offensive, it just seems like really stupid business practice. Which is why they got rid of it.
If it was such a bad idea why did it last for decades? Lets not kid ourselves into thinking this was a "logical move based on popularity". They only did this because of political and financial influence. Its a shame really to see a company compromise themselves.. Really sad
I dont think it was offensive, after all we are a Christian country.
But I do agree that it shouldnt have started at all.
Anna, this is not, nor ever was, a Christian country.
Anna – to suggest its not offensive because we're a Christian country implies that had they been passages from the Koran it may have been offensive. I find that offensive.
Offensive? Just how are you offended by love, kindness, joy, goodness, patience. Only the godless are offended by such wonder
"Offensive? Just how are you offended by love, kindness, joy, goodness, patience. Only the godless are offended by such wonder"
So if they had cards that supported gay marriage, showing how loving, joyful, patience and kind these people are in their relationships, you would allow those cards to be on the plane?
Read the magazines they put on their planes and you will see there is 100 times more of your literature and world view displayed front and center than on some cards. I don't go about ripping up magazines and jumping up and down because I am rational and understand $ex and gossip of all sorts is the mainstay of our media. Next time be honest and take note of what you see in public including airlines.
I have never seen these cards on Alaska air so perhaps the steward already trashed em long ago.
If only Jesus would have died for the hom-o$exual you may not be so offended by Christians.................oops Jesus did die for the ho-mo$exual. I suggest you find the truth and stop living the lies that you have been branwashed with. Take a close look at the real bully in your life and move on.
"I suggest you find the truth and stop living the lies that you have been branwashed with. Take a close look at the real bully in your life and move on."
We know the truth, being gay is not a choice, it's not a mental illness, and it can't be voluntarily changed. By the way there is no bully in my life and lying is a sin, so it's time for you to move on.
You are in denial because we are all surrounded by bullies. Orientation is not a choice but acting out on your orientation is a choice. You have been bullied into belief that you must act out on your orientation. This is not the case and no one should be allowed to abuse you because of their twisted desires. Do what is right in your heart.
"You are in denial because we are all surrounded by bullies. Orientation is not a choice but acting out on your orientation is a choice. You have been bullied into belief that you must act out on your orientation. This is not the case and no one should be allowed to abuse you because of their twisted desires. Do what is right in your heart."
I've been bullied for being straight? LOL! You are one sick twisted individual. Gays have the same loving relationships as straights only a corrupt prejudice heart see's it differently. At least gays have the experts on their side which is why they are gaining ground on their civil rights.
As I said it is a choice to act out on your orientation and of course that would include straights. God would not have said anything about $exual practices in the Bible if it did not present a real threat to your soul. Even if you do not believe God or the Bible the principles were right on then and today.
Dam posted in wrong place.
@fred:” God would not have said anything about $exual practices in the Bible if it did not present a real threat to your soul”
So eating shellfish and wearing cotton\polyester is a real threat to my soul too? Because your god included that in your bible to and in the same chapter as the $exual practices.
Shellfish in the wrong season were killers at that point in history and polyester had not been invented. Hey, nero jackets are making a come back did you buy yours yet?
Oh thank Christ!
“We have been keeping track over the recent years and we are receiving more complaints than compliments” says Egan. ..... This is a poor yard stick to measure how people feel about the issue. You'll always receive more complaints than compliments regardless of what you're talking about. It's human nature that people are more likely to complain than to compliment. The folks who appreciate the cards, most likely just accept and savor the little extra and go about their business. Then you'll have the few who always find offense and love to complain if something is not to their liking. It's unfortunate that their voices sound so much louder sometimes.
Well maybe an Airline shouldn't be ramming their worship on those who don't want to see such things?
Hey joe, it happens. There was a billboard out for a while where they were ramming talk about god down peoples throats. Driving your car, you look up and there it is. No choice, nobody asked, i cant "unsee it". A billboard talking about god!!!. The athiests who put that up were only concerned with their own agenda and just dont care. Shame..
@Kenin – "You'll always receive more complaints than compliments regardless of what you're talking about. It's human nature that people are more likely to complain than to compliment."
You are correct in that. I know the article states that complaints outnumbered compliments but at a guess, there was probably just a steady rise in the number of complaints they were getting. If a business sees an increasing number of complaints about something, they'll change it in order to avoid losing customers. Well, most businesses, anyway.
I'm not overly religious, but I pray everytime I board an Alaska Airlines plane
Just another example of Christian beliefs being set aside or trampled on...seems like Christianity is the only religion that constantly has to bend or change to please people. If I were Alaska Airlines I'd continue what I had been doing and those few who don't like it can fly another airline.
Christianity is not being trampled upon. Enough with the persecution complex. Alaska Airlines, a business, decided to end this practice because it was in their best interest. If you alienate customers, you don't make money. Your have no business trying to force other people to promote your insane desert cult.
Poor, persecuted Christians.
If you're the dominant religion in America (and a large part of the rest of the world as well) you don't get to have a persecution complex.
Lets not be naive about why they did this. Is wasnt about respecting others or "coming to their senses". There was financial influence at play here. They been handing these cards out for decades. If people had rejected them in the first place theyd have gone out of business or immediately stopped..
Excuse me while I vomit all over the illuminated lighted isle.
Christians have been trampled on since day one. It's an honorable calling. People don't want to hear the glad tidings of Christ and His Kingdom. Their dark minds go mad and they start to "reason". But Jesus said go and make disciples of all nations, teaching all things whatsoever I have told you. So the happy souls go for it. They know something you complainers don't. As for the prayer cards? A graciuos act dispoiled by ungracious souls. The Lord knows all about that.
"So the happy souls go for it. They know something you complainers don't. "
That's what brainwashed Christians have to think to justify their belief in a fairy tale. Sorry dude, your lying, we are happy, full of love and at peace with ourselves and our lives because we don't need the crutch of an invisible friend.
“Just another example of Christian beliefs being set aside or trampled on”.
Typical spoiled, self centered Christian. They got use to having everything their way all the time and now they are sulking because they finally have to share and play on a level field
@Peter:”Christians have been trampled on since day one.”
Poor always trampled on Christians. Trampled on during the crusades, trampled on during the witch burnings, trampled on during the inquisition, trampled on by the GOP. The persecution has become so great that televangelists and mega church pastors can hardly make a living. Poor, poor Christians, 80% of the population and still can’t force the country to become a theocracy
Dear Alaska Air,
Some suggested slogans for your next fuselage decorations:
SAVING 1.5 BILLION LOST MUSLIMS:
THERE NEVER WERE AND NEVER WILL BE ANY ANGELS I.E. NO GABRIEL, NO ISLAM AND THEREFORE NO MORE KORANIC-DRIVEN ACTS OF HORROR AND TERROR LIKE 9/11.
SAVING 2 BILLION LOST CHRISTIANS:
THERE WERE NEVER ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY BODILY RESURRECTIONS I.E. NO EASTER, NO CHRISTIANITY.
SAVING 15.5 MILLION FOLLOWERS OF ORTHODOX JUDAISM:
ABRAHAM AND MOSES PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED.
Added details upon request.
Words of ignorance from someone who has only existed for a fraction of recorded history. What's it feel like to assume you know everything? Does it give you some great sense elevated pride, or deep down does it depress you to think that you can't learn anything?
Yet you believe what you believe without any evidence of it's existence.
The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
(References used are available upon request.)
Jesus in a lot is comparable to other Roman mythological charathers. Virgin birth, resuration from the dead was more appealing to Romans and Gentiles then the stuff Jesus taught. Why do we have a religion based on Jesus when others preached similar messeges?
If this was strictly a 'business decision' to differentiate their airline from others, as was stated in the article, there is a problem. If it truly represented the values of the company, then they would not be so concerned about what the world thinks. It would be the conviction of the company leadership, and that I believe, would be honored by the Lord. They should not have made decisions to use the name of the Lord for apparently financial reasons. IF the Scripture was genuinely valued, regardless of what the majority thought, then they should continue to place them. It is a matter of intent.
As a Muslim I would have no objection to Psalms 107:1 or 9:2. We believe that the Book of Psalms was divinely revealed to Prophet David but today's version contains a lot of human additions, deletions and modifications.
For you to make such a claim, you would have to be in possession of the original text. Since you are not, you have zero proof that these alleged alterations truly occurred. I know this is the dogma long taught by Islamists, but it has zero merit.
More Muslim "pride"????????????????
As the koranic/mosque driven acts of terror and horror continue:
The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century
■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "
and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.
and more recently
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,480 and 928 in non combat roles. 102,522 – 112,049 Iraqi civilians killed as of 9/16/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, land mines and bombs of various types, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,385 killed in action, 273 killed in non-combat situations as of 09/15/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror
11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.
12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.
13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,
14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.
15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.
16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.
17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.
18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.
19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011
20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011
21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.
22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.
23) "October 4, 2011, 100 die as a truck loaded with drums of fuel exploded Tuesday at the gate of compound housing several government ministries on a busy Mogadishu street. It was the deadliest single bombing carried out by the al Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group in Somalia since their insurgency began. "
Now, maybe I'm using too much logic for religion, but EVERY religious book has human additions since humans wrote them. Technically, the entire book is a human addition.
I think the term "Islamist" usually refers to 'Islam as a political system', but you don't know that about Proud Muslim. In addition, you don't have the originals either, so there is zero merit in saying that they are the same as the originals.
Hope that helps.
Sorry, that was @Shadrach.
@Shadrach – And to dispute it so would you, and you are not, so your point is?
His/her beliefs are just as valid and meaningful to him/her as yours are to you.
But you would have a problem with nude ladies, pictures of girls learning, pictures of Muslims being friends with non-Muslims, theories of evolution etc. Your Koran was written by a child raping, second rate warlord who manipulated people from different tribes into joining an army under his leadership with a stupid rule book that he said an angel helped him to write, based on the bible. So of course you don't have issues with the bible sayings. Meanwhile I know that you are taught to kill me... an Atheist. So I would have BIG issues reading Islamic sayings, you know because the Koran dedicated more than 60 pages to my death and punishment.
I tell you God spoke to me in a booming voice from the sky & you'd call me crazy..
I tell you God spoke to my Grandfather from the pantry & you'd say he was delusional ..
I tell you a woman was told to kill her children by God & you'd have her put in prison ..
But somoeone you've never met talked to God through a burning bush or God told a man to kill his son thousands of years ago .. and you worship them as prophets & base your whole belief system on them .. that IS crazy!
Right on Horses!!
Nobody worships the people you mention.. But points for effort.
Marilynn .. I understand your point, which is why I wrote "as prophets". You must accept that Abraham is the father of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions .. thereby the basis of the worship. Thank you for the points, but I'll take the points for the truth not the effort.
Worship is fundamental to being human and goes back to the days of the Neanderthal. We know there is something more and 90% + of us know this. Horses do not and atheists have built an elaborate construct using science as a basis knowing full well science does not apply to things of God. All that nonsense cannot support a complete lack of horse sense.
points for truth? when you lie to make a point? thats like, really bad that you cant even see that. people worship god, not these prophets. you were wrong. sorry, but your logic falls apart in your escape plan to save face.
Reality is reality no matter what anyone wants to believe.
Believing since the days of the Neanderthal does not make it true.
My logic is sound regardless of whether you are nitpicking your definition of worship, sorry. You cannot teach someone something they do not want to know.
"Worship is fundamental to being human and goes back to the days of the Neanderthal. We know there is something more and 90% + of us know this."
The truth is that while religion is common in human cultures, not every person is religious. Not everyone is religious. You also have to take into account what it means to be human, because the meaning of spiritual changes in different cultures and historical periods
"Reality is reality no matter what anyone wants to believe.".. once again, you are in over your head. reality is NOT reality. there are some places in our great universe where your reality doesnt exist. your problem is you think YOUR reality equals TRUTH. very narrow minded, but the usual mistake humans make. you should study a little more, not trying to be a jerk, but youd be surprised to see how wrong you are, about a great many things..
You prefer the term spiritual that is fine, 90% of the world can sense there is a spriitual side to life which atheists cannot address. Would you say atheists have a disability and are spritiually challenged? The post lacks horse sense as even a horse knows it has a master.
"You prefer the term spiritual that is fine, 90% of the world can sense there is a spriitual side to life which atheists cannot address. Would you say atheists have a disability and are spritiually challenged? The post lacks horse sense as even a horse knows it has a master."
Actually from the posts I've read they addressed it with the science on the functionality of the human brain, so I would say that chemical reaction doesn't occur in their brain but it doesn't make them disabled or spirituality challenged.
Do you ever go outdoors?
Lions and tigers and bears oh my !
@fred:”Worship is fundamental to being human and goes back to the days of the Neanderthal. We know there is something more and 90% + of us know this. … All that nonsense cannot support a complete lack of horse sense.”
Horse sense will also tell you that the sun orbit around the earth and that the earth is flat just like over 90% of the world’s population once did
@marilynn:” reality is NOT reality. … your problem is you think YOUR reality equals TRUTH. very narrow minded, youd be surprised to see how wrong you are, about a great many things..”
This is much different from marilynn’s reality which obviously equals truth (eye roll)
Yes, and today we think the universe is shaped like saddle so horse sense remains king. Even with 80-200k years of evolution the vast majority of humans know there is more to life than what can be seen.
I don't find them any more offensive than I would find it offensive if a Jehovah's witness came to my door trying to give me a Watchtower. I've talked to them, and read their literature, but their rules are not the way I believe. Heaven forbid someone try to show you their way.......
It was started as a marketing trick. Now they are only given to the first class passengers. Don't regular passengers deserve it also? It is a flawed concept.
They want stupid gullible rich people. First Class all the way, baby! And make me a sandwich!
The regular passengers are going to hell anyway so why do they need a card?
"Since 2006, only passengers in First Class on longer Alaska Airlines flights have been served meals,...."
Yes, EVERY airline that only provides certain services to 1st Class has a flawed marketing concept. After all, people would surely pay double or triple the cost, just to say the are flying 1st Class and sit near the front.
"just to say the are flying 1st Class and sit near the front." – no. If you've ever flown from DC to Seattle or Anchorage and had to get off the plane and immediately work at your zenith, you appreciate first class. When I fly more than 8 hours in economy class, I need at least another 8 hours to recover before I can work productively. As for these cards, I don't remember seeing them – I probably just ignored them and threw them away.
Hal//"no. If you've ever flow..."
You miss the point Hal. 1st Class gets certain perks over the rest, including meals and leg room. FactChecker was lamenting about other passengers deserving the same courtesies as the 1st Class.
So the airline suggests you pray while flying on one of their planes. "Oh Flight Attendant, I think this is my stop".
Those cards can be used as weapons. Now who wants to fly the plane?
No, its actually just a card with a verse. Nobody at anytime suggested anyone pray.. At all..
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.