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February 16th, 2012
10:13 AM ET

Rumors of Vatican power struggle

(CNN)–A series of leaks suggests that trouble's brewing in the cradle of Roman Catholicism. CNN's Vatican analyst John Allen has more.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bishops • Catholic Church • Pope Benedict XVI

soundoff (50 Responses)
  1. Olen Filburn

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    May 19, 2013 at 8:35 am |
  2. Reality

    Dear sister and brother Muslims,

    Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

    This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

    And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

    Current crises:

    The global Sunni-Shiite blood feud (e.g. Syria) and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

    March 2, 2012 at 11:38 pm |
  3. AGuest9

    I guess the skinheads want their Hitler Youth pope to return to the Fatherland and lead the Fourth Reich?

    February 18, 2012 at 10:19 am |
  4. RightTurnClyde

    The Roman Catholic church is in very serious trouble - but don't gloat because all of Christendom is in serious trouble as well. The more recent issue of pedophile priests and bishops sweeping it under a rug are significant but not the single (or even the most difficult) source of trouble. The biggest trouble is the enormous number of Catholics who have left the Roman Catholic church (beginning in the 50's in the U.S. and becoming a flood in the 60's and 70's. Why did this happen? The RC church is a we-they kind of organization (clergy versus lay). During the dark ages and even the middle ages that could work because Roman Catholics were largely illiterate peasants. They depended on the RCC to ring their bells at 6AM 12 Noon and 6PM. The RCC told them which day to plow and which day to plant (patron saints days). They could not read a calendar or a time piece. In American (and also in Europe) they became literate and then became learned - and they realized that there are some major contractions in the RCC. The church was too rigid to change so they left. The vacuum was filled with a lesser type of member (AND the exit flood continued). It is too late to win back the following which left and it is too late to turn back time (and void the scandals). They really cannot convert new members who are dedicated to the Christian faith. But actually do not gloat because the memberships in all N. American churches has also declined dramatically and the numbers are not growing. Membership is not growing anywhere in the world - 3rd world or emerging world. Christian preachers (and church leadership) are not a lot brighter than the RCC (witness the Crystal Cathedral and other failing churches). 30 years makes a big difference. Christianity is fading (and rapidly). Too bad.

    February 17, 2012 at 2:07 am |
  5. Iqbal Khan

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0A3WMOLOKo&w=640&h=390]

    February 16, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • Reality

      Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

      This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

      And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

      Current crises:

      The global Sunni-Shiite blood feud (e.g. Syria) and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

      February 17, 2012 at 12:35 am |
  6. Joe from CT, not Lieberman

    The last time the Roman Catholic Church experienced a Civil War was when King Phillipe Auguste's henchman, Nogaret, kidnapped Boniface XI (and apparently tortured him to death) in 1309 trying to force the Pope to declare the Knights Templar guilty of Herasy and order their arrest. Over the next 65 years, the German Emperor, the French King and the various Italian principalities fought it out over which of their chosen was the true Vicar of Christ. There hasn't been this much fun since the Pope declared Martin Luther Excommunicated, and Luther found enough German Princes to protect him leading to the next two centuries of outright wars based on Religion between Papists and Protestants. Now the guy who used to be in charge of the Inquisition is the Heir of St. Peter, and he has survived longer than he was expected to. He was only supposed to be a "placeholder" Pope, not rule for 7 years. No wonder the Church is in Revolt! Two guys in a row who are more concerned about keeping the Church in the 17th century instead of trying to bring it into modern times like John XXIII and Paul VI started.

    February 16, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      The RCC cannot "modernize" itself. It is stuck in too many contradictions. The birth control impasse is one of them and celibacy is yet another. But there are many: almost everything in the RCC is built upon fictions that were convenient back some time ago. The l..a.y-clergy separation is a big obstacle. Brokering salvation through invented sacraments is yet another. Mystic artifacts is still more a.n.t.i.q.u.a.t.ed mumbo-jumbo (holy water, rosaries, stations, beads, incense, candle, statues, medallions .. and visions of Mary or saints in screen doors and watermelons are even more). P.r.e.t.e.n.t.i.o.u.s encyclicals (acting like they are Apostolic epistles) is pagan. The RCC cannot back away from Councils that decided "against" orthodoxy, Protestants, nobles and crowned heads .. creating complicated alliances and complicated histories. (the RCC also opposed and possibly defeated Soviet Communism and Communism behind the Iron Curtain. There is no way to start anew. Their p.a.s.t has caught up with them and it is not good. American Protestant churches have their own troubles and their own sordid past. Soon after they settled in N. America there were witch hunts and with inquisitions. CALVINISM is a.n.t.i.t.h.e.t.i.c.a.l to Christian doctrine. But American churches were imbued with it (Tennessee Williams plays). It twisted Christian doctrine into narcissism (Barby and Ken America) and looks "down" upon the unwashed ones. It brought about nasty social and economic .a.t.t.i.t.u.d.e.s. which in many ways fueled the American left. But members have been leaving the dogmatic fundamentalist religions as well as the Episcopal, Methodist and Lutheran groups. Today all of them are in trouble. Their decline has been r.a.p.i.d. The church built by Rev. Schuler has been destroyed by his kids in just a few years. Gross slippage can be seen in the Graham second generation and in the children of O.r.a.l. Roberts. Major i.n.c.o.n.s.i.s.t.e.n.c.i.e.s have rendered fundamentalists in serious troubles. In a few decades none of them will exist.

      February 17, 2012 at 2:40 am |
    • Danman

      Hey, you're literate! Thank god! Someone who doesn't toss history into a dumpster and actually learns...

      March 1, 2012 at 10:42 am |
  7. J.W

    I don't think that the pope is a true Catholic.

    February 16, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
  8. hippypoet

    muhahahahaha
    WHO CALLED IT! me, the Hippypoet thats who! conspiracy anyone!

    February 16, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • Dodney Rangerfield

      Glenn Beck called it ! Don't tell me hippypoet is actually Glenn Beck conspiracy theorist extraordinaire !

      February 16, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • hippypoet

      glenn licks my grundle after a nice workout!... its blissful!

      February 16, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Dodney Rangerfield

      If you can lick your own grundle why are you here wasting time?

      February 16, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
  9. Flinders the Butler

    Well ya know, it's very likely JohnPaul I was murdered by Cardinal Villot, and his henchmen, the night before he was going to reverse the birth control ban, (back in the 1980's), which was sitting on his desk. He had fired Villot and his friend for the Vatican Bank scandal, (Bishop Paul Marcinkus), and the BC docu'ments have never been found. They embalmed the body before any toxicology tests could be done. (See "In God's Name", by David Yallop). What a hoot.

    February 16, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
  10. Guest

    Do they have rival gangs like Mods and Rockers? Mostly they're the right age for it.

    February 16, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
  11. David Johnson

    Hmm... A civil war, you think? I say we arm both sides and let them settle it.

    Cheers!

    February 16, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • AGuest9

      A boom to the economy, since all we manufacture are weapons.

      February 16, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Nonimus

      Not really. The Vatican is how big?

      February 16, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
  12. AGuest9

    The pope wants to turn it int a Nazi enclave? No surprise there.

    February 16, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  13. Reality

    Only for newbies and only for those interested in a religious update:

    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple/magic preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

    This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

    And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

    Current crises:

    The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

    4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

    The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

    Current problems:

    The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

    5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

    "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

    Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

    Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

    Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

    February 16, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • ......

      The flaw is in copy paste bull sh it hit report abuse on every reality post

      February 16, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  14. Doc Vestibule

    Seems like the last thing the Vatican wants is any kind of transparency.
    Wouldn't want all the sheep to know the contents of internal correspondence!

    February 16, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • sam

      I wonder if their internal memos are all in Latin.

      February 16, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • ellie

      @sam
      Lol

      February 17, 2012 at 1:51 am |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    February 16, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • ....

      For those of us that know that action, not prayer, changes things, please hit 'report abuse' to get rid of this troll.

      February 16, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Good men pray
      Great men act on prayer
      Prayer changes things

      February 16, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • I'm The Best!

      If prayer actually changed things men would not have to act on it. Prayer changes nothing.

      February 16, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
  16. William Demuth

    Perhaps we can hope for some assasinations?

    February 16, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Dodney Rangerfield

      Are you volunteering? Why not do the job on you yourself?

      February 16, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • William Demuth

      Why not wait till they kill each other?

      Syria, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, all one need do is study history, and you will see NOTHING is bloodier than religious civil war!

      It more efficient! Besides the upstarts are probably more liberal.

      February 16, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • just sayin

      Nothing more bloody? Not atheist Stalin and the Gulags? Not atheist Hitler with the 2nd World War and his death camps? Not atheists Mao,Pol Pot or Ho Chi Minh?

      February 16, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • William Demuth

      Just

      You do know they were an AXIS power don't you?

      I think a gulag might be acceptable, but I would prefer they crucify each other!

      February 16, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • A known Filipino

      Mr Just Saying Hitler was Catholic and the Church actually supported his actions against Stalin. Stalin was just plain crazy and probably mentally insane.

      February 16, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ just sayin
      Learn history, Hitler was Christian. He believed in Jesus and thought he was doing gods work.

      And instead of just disagreeing with me, please provide evidence that he was an atheist. Because anyone familiar with history knows otherwise

      February 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • just sayin

      Anyone familiar with national socialism knows Hitler was an atheist.

      February 16, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      Just sayin,
      I don't understand, please explain to me how nazism implies Hitler was an atheist. Because his speeches and writings say otherwise. And atheists don't have a singular political stance, there are some of us who are liberal, and some who are conservative. I don't see hoe a political stance says anything about what religion a person is.

      I'm looking for historical proof, not your opinion.

      February 16, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • What IF

      @just sayin,

      Jesus was a socialist.

      "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor..."

      And free health care all over the joint, without concern or consideration for pre-existing conditions or whose toes he was stepping on Jesus made his way through the land casting out demons, healing leprosy, epilepsy, and other dastardly illnesses that afflicted the people, he cared not a whit for whether a person was rich or poor, of the ruling class, or the most dest'itute beggar before the temple he healed them.

      More here:

      http://valentinelogar.hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-was-a-Socialist

      February 16, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • What IF

      p.s. That is, if you believe that Jesus existed, and was/is "God", and really said what those 1st century evangelists *said* that he said...

      February 16, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • ....

      @just sayin' is obviously just making things up to get a rise out of people. Very Christ-like of him, Please just ignore the troll.

      February 16, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • just sayin

      Adolf Hitler said and did what brought power to himself, national socialism and Nazi Germany. If it was to his advantage to declare territorial ambitions complete with Czechoslovakia he would sign a treaty to that effect. If it served his evil purpose he would sign an agreement with the pope with the same lack of sincerity. Bottom line Hitler was his own god, the ultimate atheist and undisputed leader of the national socialist party of Nazi Germany. Hitler was and remains an atheist, he was not a Christian and in reality he was only catholic by birth, not by intent.

      February 16, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • sam

      C'mon, just sayin'. Just because you don't want him in your cult doesn't mean he wasn't. Hitler was a perfect christian. Just like you.

      February 16, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      There you go with opinion again. I want some actual facts.
      You say he was his own god which just implies narcissism, not atheism. Which he may have been narcissistic but he wasn't his own god, his god was Jesus Christ and the Christian god. He says so in his PERSONAL writings, meaning they were just for him. He wasn't an atheist, he was Christian.

      February 16, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • just sayin

      The deception of Czechoslovakia and the concordat with the pope are historical facts. Both were lies by Hitler used to further his atheist agenda. Talk to those of the greatest generation who knew best what they were dealing with. No priests in the bunker, kind of odd for a devout catholic? No papal 'Rasputin' in the Hitler inner circle. Why? Because Hitler was not a believer in anything but himself as the highest ideal of national socialism. Hitler the completed evil atheist.

      February 16, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • ....

      Once again, for those who didn't catch it the first time:

      @just sayin' is obviously just making things up to get a rise out of people. Very Christ-like of him, Please just ignore the troll.

      February 16, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ just sayin
      Yes, those events happened, but they say nothing of his religious belief, just that he was a terrible person. Not that he was an atheist. The opinion that I was referring to was that those events are evidence of him being an atheist. Just because a powerful person doesn't surround himself with priests doesn't mean he's an atheist. These are not facts for or against any religion, they are facts that lead to your false opinion of his religious affiliation.

      I'll repeat myself again, I'm looking for actual facts pointing to him being atheist, not your opinions

      @ ....
      I know, but I'm trying to help him learn something

      February 16, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
  17. *facepalm*

    There's scandal and corruption in the RCC? Isn't this news about 1700 years old?

    February 16, 2012 at 10:32 am |
  18. hippypoet

    oooohhhhh, WHO CALLED IT! me, the hippypoet thats who! conspiracy anyone!

    February 16, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • Dodney Rangerfield

      Glenn Beck called it ! hippypoet is none other than Glenn Beck !

      February 16, 2012 at 10:57 am |
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