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My Take: Stop sugarcoating the Bible
The 17th century painting Judith Beheading Holofernes, by Artemisia Gentileschi, depicts a biblical scene.
February 25th, 2012
10:00 PM ET

My Take: Stop sugarcoating the Bible

Editor's note: Steven James is the author of more than 30 books, including "Flirting with the Forbidden," which explores forgiveness.

By Steven James, Special to CNN

(CNN) - The Bible is a gritty book. Very raw. Very real. It deals with people just like us, just as needy and screwed up as we are, encountering a God who would rather die than spend eternity without them.

Yet despite that, it seems like Christians are uncomfortable with how earthy the Bible really is. They feel the need to tidy up God.

For example, look in any modern translation of Isaiah 64:6, and you’ll find that, to a holy God, even our most righteous acts are like “filthy rags.” The original language doesn’t say “filthy rags”; it says “menstrual rags.” But that sounds a little too crass, so let’s just call them filthy instead.

And let’s not talk so much about Jesus being naked on the cross, and let’s pretend Paul said that he considered his good deeds “a pile of garbage” in Philippians 3:8 rather than a pile of crap, as the Greek would more accurately be translated.

And let’s definitely not mention the six times in the Old Testament that the Jewish writers referred to Gentile men as those who “pisseth against the wall.” (At least the King James Version got that one right.)

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The point?

God’s message was not meant to be run through some arbitrary, holier-than-thou politeness filter. He intended the Bible to speak to people where they’re at, caught up in the stark reality of life on a fractured planet.

Dozens of Psalms are complaints and heart-wrenching cries of despair to God, not holy-sounding, reverently worded soliloquies. Take Psalm 77:1-3: “I cry out to God; yes, I shout. Oh, that God would listen to me! When I was in deep trouble, I searched for the Lord. All night long I prayed, with hands lifted toward heaven, but my soul was not comforted. I think of God, and I moan, overwhelmed with longing for his help” (New Living Translation).

And rather than shy away from difficult and painful topics, the Old Testament includes vivid descriptions of murder, cannibalism, witchcraft, dismemberment, torture, rape, idolatry, erotic sex and animal sacrifice. According to St. Paul, those stories were written as examples and warnings for us (1 Corinthians 10:11). So obviously they were meant to be retold without editing out all the things we don’t consider nice or agreeable.

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I believe that Scripture includes such graphic material to show how far we, as a race, have fallen and how far God was willing to come to rescue us from ourselves.

God is much more interested in honesty than pietism.

And that’s what he gives us throughout Scripture, telling the stories of people who struggled with the same issues, questions and temptations we face today.

Peter struggled with doubt, and we hear all about it.

Elijah dealt with depression; Naomi raged with bitterness against God; Hannah struggled for years under the burden of her unanswered prayers.

David had an affair and then arranged to have his lover’s husband killed. Noah was a drunk, Abraham a liar, Moses a murderer. Job came to a place where he found it necessary to make a covenant with his eyes not to lust after young girls (Job 31:1).

It’s easy to make “Bible heroes” (as Protestants might say) or “saints” (as Catholics might refer to them) out to be bigger than life, immune from the temptations that everyone faces.

I find it encouraging that Jesus never came across as pietistic. In fact, he was never accused of being too religious; instead he partied so much that he was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton (Matthew 11:19).

Jesus never said, “The Kingdom of God is like a church service that goes on and on forever and never ends.” He said the kingdom was like a homecoming celebration, a wedding, a party, a feast to which all are invited.

This idea was too radical for the religious leaders of his day. They were more concerned about etiquette, manners, traditions and religious rituals than about partying with Jesus. And that’s why they missed out.

That’s why we miss out.

According to Jesus, the truly spiritual life is one marked by freedom rather than compulsion (John 8:36), love rather than ritual (Mark 12:30-33) and peace rather than guilt (John 14:27). Jesus saves us from the dry, dusty duties of religion and frees us to cut loose and celebrate.

I don’t believe we’ll ever recognize our need for the light until we’ve seen the depth of the darkness. So God wasn’t afraid to get down and dirty with us about life and temptation and forgiveness. And grace.

Only when the Bible seems relevant to us (which it is), only when the characters seem real to us (which they were), only then will the message of redemption become personal for us (which it was always meant to be).

We don’t need to edit God. We need to let him be the author of our new lives.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Steven James.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Opinion

soundoff (5,744 Responses)
  1. PLEATOGOD

    hence the statement. satan has coem to steal kill and destroy. if something is taken it is because satan has stolen it from you and i strying to kill you and destroy you thru wicked men who choose not to make Christ there Savior but rather satan there god and allow satan to operate thru them such as abuse etc. jesus is always loving even when we do have to face disicpine for sin he is always loiving and kind and soft even in our disciplines but it is never way you picture discipline you picture it way a man has done to you. you need to believe this and be controlled by Holy Spirit or youll never be free from bondage of bitterness amen

    February 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • MatterOfFact

      Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

      February 26, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
  2. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    February 26, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      I just prayed for a troll to slap me in the face. Didn't happen. Guess prayer doesn't change "everything."

      February 26, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • MatterOfFact

      It seems that atheists tend to be more forgiving and religious people are always trying to control everyone else or kill them. I want freedom from religion. The world would be a better place. Right now the world is full of religious people and look at the carnage. In the name of God.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
  3. MatterOfFact

    and let's see...the New Testament was assembled by a Roman Emperor who was pagan all his life until he decided to become a Christian at the last moment, since it was becoming a popular club and it was politically correct. So he gets together with some cronies and chooses which books would best suit the purpose of the Roman Empire, and poof!!! we have the New Testament. Is there something fishy here?

    February 26, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      Jesus authenticated each and every Book of the Old Testament while on earth and He also preauthenticated the entire New Testament. Nice try, though.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • Oversimplifications and inaccuracies too severe to merit response

      February 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      Liberals Are Stupid
      Jesus authenticated each and every Book of the Old Testament while on earth and He also preauthenticated the entire New Testament. Nice try, though.

      WOW. He pre authenticated and book that he didn't know people were going to write about him many years after his death? Damn, smart guy. Too bad he didn't get paid for it. Would be a Trilllionaire.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • Are you Kidding?

      Yes there is something fishy, the way you can completely butcher history and twist the truth. You're a moron.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • MatterOfFact

      actually everything i said has been corroborated by biblical scholars.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      LOL Biblical scholars? Could there be a more useless way to devote a life? Go cure a disease, not spread it.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
  4. MatterOfFact

    hmmm, let's see, the Old Testament was for the Jews who are intimately involved in the death of Jesus, who was born a Jew, and they are still waiting for their Messiah because they didn't give Jesus the job. Didn't think his resume was good enough. So why are Christians still dragging around the Old Testament? Because God tells you to beat a dead horse?

    February 26, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      Rolls eyes at your stupidity and lack of knowledge about the Bible, something you're trying to act like you know about. Try again.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • Just go home and study

      February 26, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • MatterOfFact

      Please tell me what I said that is wrong.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
  5. PLEATOGOD

    jeremiah 7 31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I DID NOT COMMAND, nor did it enter my mind.

    February 26, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
  6. PLEATOGOD

    i was once where you were kay. Thought life could satisfy me but always found that nothing could ever heal me of addictiosn or from guilt of sin. i need Christ. To say one doesnt need Savior is only pride within. What will happen when you end up in jail cell or middle of a desert will you still be relying on self? or satan atatcks you and hurt you really bad by some act of vengance from another human being. Jesus loves you soooo much kay and i want you to have him hun. I really do. I am like all others who like brian welch you know from band korn......he came to understand his personal drug addiction and he prayed and got saved and jesus also healed him of drug addiction. its on youtube. type in brian welch gets saved from band korn its there on youtube. actually two members gave hearts to christ. power of HOly Spirit comes in and heals abuses that have happened on peopel heart. no other can heal inward wounds of heart. or when christians pray and God moves, such as healings, mercy, releases, provisions, according to Gods will. How is it christian in my circle pray to Lord and they need 20 bucks and a person finds 20 bucks next day on there door step or 5 bucks they needed exactly for gas? Not coincidence.

    February 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post consists mainly of several common fallacies, including the Suppressed Evidence fallacy, Willed Ignorance, and Hasty Generalization, as well as the Cu-m Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.

      http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#H6

      February 26, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
  7. Remnant of God

    This site will not allow me to post (Matthew 5:17-19), I have tried to post this verse "several" times!
    So that tells me one thing......this verse from God's Word is VERY POWERFUL, and the enemy does not want the TRUTH revealed.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Bob

      No, it just shows that you are too ignorant and/or too stupid to understand the CNN word filter that most of the rest of us know about.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      yeah i been have hard time few rtimes as well.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  8. Beth

    This artlcle and the actual bible content itself merely show that if Christian god actually existed (and there is no verifiable, testable evidence that it does), he'd merely be a vengeant, violent asshole with a predeliction to torture, murder, and commit sexual violence, and to instruct others to do the same.

    No thanks then. You can stow your tall tales about your jerk of a Christian god where the sun don't shine. He's not a being I'd worship. Sounds like quite the asshole, really, when you look at the description.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      and that is why they wipe the board every few minutes. Amorality is just a fancy way of showing immorality.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      If you don't believe there is verifiable, testable evidence that God exists, then what are you arguing against? Typical intolerant, liberal atheist.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      hun. i like when elijah told peopel to call upon there god of baal and no one came down and then elijah called upon Yeshua and He won...haha love it. Jesus loves you huney. All peopel come to christians for prayers and according to Gods will our prayers get answered....mayeb we dont have cashes and catalacks but we get by and i have seen many nmiracles for peopel who needed 20 bucks for something or 5 bucks and they foudn it on there car seat and have no idea how got there.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      you just need to be shown love cuz you are really hurting inside. Jesus loves you let love coem in your heart and set you free hun bun

      February 26, 2012 at 4:16 pm |
    • gman

      beth , whatever your past or thoughts , if you look closely at the biblical text , GOD NEVER TOLD ADAM TO DO

      EVIL BY EVE. That's not what christ stands for. Unfortunately till Jesus returns and sets things in order Satan

      is running around doing every sort of evil. Just the fact that he poisons peoples minds against a Holy God,

      is something we have to deal with while we are still here. Don't give up. It's a war here for souls. God was

      tough on marriage commandments because they are the foundation of the family and one family destroyed

      creats angry children and sorrow. So he commanded wives obey your husbands but he also commanded

      husbands obey your master the LORD. so theres a system of checks and ballances there. But the

      final motive is the truth. We don't have to marry or have children but people choose to take a chance on

      someone in their life. God simply told us since the fall in the garden that it would be hard at best

      to make it while we are here and there will be many trials. Don't give up seeking the truth.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  9. PLEATOGOD

    jeremiah 7 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the LORD. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

    31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

    it shows how God says to reform form there ways. they were sacrificing children on altars and burning to other gods and yeshua could no longer take it anymore to see such evil prevail. He loves all mankind and gave even in days of noah hundreds of years to repent but has to intercede for those that wish not to do evil or have such evil prevail.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
  10. PLEATOGOD

    Jeremiah 7 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the LORD. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

    31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

    it shows how God says to reform form there ways. they were sacrificing children on altars and burning to other gods and yeshua could no longer take it anymore to see such evil prevail. He loves all mankind and gave even in days of noah hundreds of years to repent but has to intercede for those that wish not to do evil or have such evil prevail.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
  11. PLEATOGOD

    you took out of context what i was trying to speak to craig. it was not an ansswer for you but for craig. God made us for His pelasure to glorify HIm and love Him. not that he needs anyone but HE wants us to be a part of HIs plan and he has plans not to harm us but to have a future and a hope. You took out of context what i was saying. God did not create us for his glood pleasure in doing evil against us. satan has come to do kill steal and destroy us. But GOd has come to save us, rescue us, and save us but man chooses to rebel and thus make satan there god. if you chosoe satan then you are gonan have heartache anger rage borkeness and death and destruction. Choose Christ and you will feel peace healing and love from God in your heart. God wants u to have a loving personal relationship with Him and to know HIs heart and HIs love and forgiveness, not what you make Him out ot be. God never had it in his mind to do what man did to children and burn them and all horrible things....that was of satan and man and man choosing to let demons control them from inside. Choose Christ and you will be overcomer of evil of this ages.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      @both of you.

      In now way do I sound ridiculous. I'm asking simply, how do you know that Jesus wasn't a pimp? Because a book written a ton of years after his death was written ~2000 years ago? I'm just saying, don't always believe everything you read. Why would they ever write a book that was for the mass conformation of the people at the time and claim any of his bad traits? You actually think everything in the bible is true?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      Hiroshima n Nagasaki were not genocide right?

      February 27, 2012 at 12:44 am |
  12. MatterOfFact

    Jesus didn't read the Bible nor did he belong to a church. Nor did he hate anybody. He's all right in my book!

    February 26, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      How do you know he didn't do that stuff? Did you know him personally?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • MatterOfFact

      @NVRWRNG – because it doesn't say Jesus read the Bible in the Bible. So if the Bible is true...

      February 26, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      NVRWRNG: The more you post, the more ridiculous you sound. If you're going to argue with Christians about Christianity, shouldn't you first know something about it?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      @both of you.

      In no way do I sound ridiculous. I'm asking simply, how do you know that Jesus wasn't a pimp? Because a book written a ton of years after his death was written ~2000 years ago? I'm just saying, don't always believe everything you read. Why would they ever write a book that was for the mass conformation of the people at the time and claim any of his bad traits? You actually think everything in the bible is true?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      You aren't worthy of my time to answer. You promised to go away if I gave you answers before, but your still here harassing Christians for sport just like the Sadducee and Pharisees did. And yes, your silly questions sound ridiculous.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      My questions are all warranted. I feel like if I wanted to be religious those would be simple questions that anyone with a higher education of religion should be able to answer, in a direct way. Not "god is in control of everything." It just sounds ridiculous to me. If aliens exist, did god create them too? Do they believe in "your god." I feel like these are all rational questions. Maybe I'm wrong though.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  13. PLEATOGOD

    Christ is the ONLY way truth and life. If we accepted any other way than wed be the devil who accepts everythign as truth when really that statement is a lie. in order for truth to be truth it is closeminded, it is consistent, it is orderly. You dont find true evangelical Christians straying from truth of message gospel...we are sinnes, there is a punishment and how you can be saved. it is consistent, orderly, etc. even brian welch from band korn got saved and healed (found on youtube or cbn.com) Truth is consistent and orderly and is ONE THING, not many cuz then it no longer is truth. Christ is only way truth and life. Many native americans and tribal groups are visited by missionaries who risk there lives to go ina nd preach gospel ie story of Jim elliott. Many native americans have had dreams of Christ on a cross. Whatever case the gospel is getting reached out to peopel. for those that reject it they will not be saved or go to heaven. if you wanna help further effort of reaching trivbal groups to be saved then receive Christ.:)

    February 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      As posted below, Pleatogod, please tell me that this isn't the god you claim to worship, that he did none of the things below "for His pleasure."
      Please tell me and many others, that we are wrong. But show us how, don't just appeal to emotion or New Testament verses.

      The god who commands that females (preferably young) be treated as chattel (Deut 22:28 ff.), whose financial value immediately diminishes upon losing their viriginity (the same is not said for men) (Deut 22:13-21), and who orders that married women be brutally, publicly humiliated if *suspected* of adultery (Num. 5:17-31), executed if caught in adultery (along with the man) (Lev. 20:10-11), and viciously mutilated if they rescue their husband from a fight with another man by grabbing the other guy's nuts (Deut 25:11-12).

      The god who excludes illegitimate children and those with physical disabilities from entering his temple (Lev. 21:17-23)

      There are many, many more examples, including God's condoning slavery, assigning comparative liability to r ape victims, and commanding or personally committing many, many deaths of believers and non-believers alike (easily numbering into the millions). This is truly a "God of love."

      February 26, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      Jeremiah 7 18 The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. 19 But am I the one they are provoking? declares the LORD. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?

      31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

      it shows how God says to reform form there ways. they were sacrificing children on altars and burning to other gods and yeshua could no longer take it anymore to see such evil prevail. He loves all mankind and gave even in days of noah hundreds of years to repent but has to intercede for those that wish not to do evil or have such evil prevail.
      amen

      February 26, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      Unfortunately, still no justification for "God's" ordering their deaths, and the over a million other deaths he is responsible for in the OT. If God is eternal and trascendant then he surely could have introduced democracy and a modern judicial system into the Hebrew culture. His failure to do so makes a strong (but admittedly not dispositive) case for his being a late-Bronze-aged local deity, in which context his actions, thoughts, and behaviors fit right in, and were actually quite revolutionary (and secular) for the time. But commanding genocide without Due Process is quite a bestial and primitive action.

      "What keeps mankind alive? The fact that millions are daily tortured, stifled, punished, silenced and oppressed. Mankind must keep alive, thanks to its brilliance, in keeping its humanity repressed. And for once you must try not to shriek the facts. Mankind is kept alive by bestial acts." (Weill/Brecht)

      World without end, amen.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Tom

      Stanek: You parrot frequently used arguments, but in doing so you reveal that you do not truly get it. It, being the message of the Bible. Just in broad terms, the old Testament is the history of the nation of Israel as it struggled to live "under the law." (God's law.) This was a period 1000's of years BC. To understand the Old Testament, you need to understand the context in which it was written, the prevailing culture at the time. Ultimately, man proved himself unable to live by the Law. Religious leaders were often the worst hypocrites. By contrast, in the New Testament the old laws no longer apply. Instead, the emphasis shifts to God's saving grace provided in the person of Jesus. It also describes God's grace being extended to non-Jews.

      If your Bible knowledge is limited to a few narrowly focused verses specifically chosen to bolster your argument that the Bible is a farce, you're completely missing the boat. You're so focused on a single tree that you're missing the majesty of the forest.

      I used to think the same thing until I began to understand more about how the Bible came into existence and the context of each individual book. It wasn't until I began to understand the history, timeline, and significance of each book that I began to grasp the big picture. If you're skeptical (I sense you are) then at least try to first understand what the Bible materially represents. Once you grasp this, *then* search out the spiritual significance in each book.

      (Hint: This is when the light really starts to come on, when you start to recognize the consistency in Old Testament books written 100's of years apart by authors who didn't know each other. Or, in the case of the New Testament, of the improbable survival of the early church despite the religious persecution faced by Christians of the day.)

      February 26, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      @Tom. I sense your arrogance and fear. And you are entirely wrong about me. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone with a Master's degree in Theology from Biola University. Read about the theory of JEDP if you want your understanding of the OT's continuity to be shaken to the core. Richard Friedman, Who Wrote the Bible is a good place to start. YOU are parroting the arguments of modern, evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity, and are dead wrong in your understanding of the OT. Do some homework on scholarship outside of F.F. Bruce or Piper, or whoever it is you suscribe to. Your understanding of the Old Testament is fatally flawed and fails to grasp the complexity of this combined, rewritten and redacted work of cultural literature which we have today. If I sound arrogant, it's because I'm tired of the bs thrown in the face of the average human being by the common evangelical Christian today.

      February 26, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      @Tom: do yourself a favor and read Martin Luther's 95 Theses and see if your current views are anywhere near aligned with those of the founder of your faith. NONE of your straw-men arguments do anything to explain the fact that the Bible attributed all kinds of immorality and atrocities to "God."

      February 26, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      Tom, if you honestly believe that the "culture of the time/historical context" argument justifies these alleged actions by God, then I have nothing to say to you, except to encourage you to please get some professional help. Imagine if a follower of Molech, whose followers sacrificed babies according to the OT, were to claim to be the son of Molech (God) and that by faith in his death and resurrection his followers could obtain eternal life. Would you believe, despite the obvious horrible qualities of Molech? And yet you so easily suscribe to a religion based around an late bronze-aged "god" who ADMITTEDLY is responsible for everything I've previously listed, because a man claimed to be that god's son and people believe he rose from the dead. Frankly, that is sad. Good luck to you, and please trade your arrogance for some honest self-reflection. And feel free to attack, belittle, or condescend to me all you want. The fact is, the Bible as it exists today speaks for itself, wanton contradictions, atrocities attributed to God, warts and all.

      February 26, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      p.s. For the record, I do know a lot of "proof" verses to discredit the Bible, but I've also been trained in Evangelism Explosion, the Gospel Hand, etc., and know the "proof" verses frequently used to support evangelical, fundamentalist faith in Christ. And I've found them to just not stand up to water. My faith in Christ is personal, non-orthodox, and not based on the arguments you hold so fastly to. It includes speaking the truth to people, even though the truth may be hard to hear, and may cause many to question and doubt what they believe. My faith is just that: a "faith," not founded on what I believe to be historically accurate events, but what I believe to be the enduring power of the symbol of Christ's death and resurrection.

      February 26, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
  14. ashrakay

    Yes, god is cruel, childish and jealous. I expect better behavior from my 2-year old child. The years since the bible was written have been filled with apologists trying to justify or explain god's behavior. It reminds me a bit of Joseph Smith's absurd "special" glasses in order to translate the book of mormon. Christians have long been claiming that you have to be a certain way, or read the particular context, or have someone "special" explain the bible to you. As a brand specialist, I know well of the psychological desire one has of something exclusive and "special".

    The author of this article rightly points out that cruelty and brutality is who we are and the bible reflects man. And as long as man endeavors to take his morals from the bible, he will be forever condemn to this cycle of cruelty, brutality and emotional childishness.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      kay, you need Christ. at end of day you are still one that decides to be lonely without God and inside you are tormented inside with hurt pains and still no deliverance. God is HOly and God is love just as a parent must discipline there child so does a heavenly Father. However God loves people so much. Not all things that man has done is of an act of God but an act of satan and until you actually understnad that you will forever be enslaved to bitterness and hatred towards a God who loves you and wishes you be saved and purified within. God wants you. He loves you. A life without Him is lonely and hard and will be. Jesus loves lil children as well. but thats up to you. i want you to have him though godlovestheworld.com he wants to heal your heart

      February 26, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @PLEATOGOD, You assume too much and know nothing of me. My heart is full of love and I am not lonely. I feel peace and contentment and sorrow for those that think they need a god in order to feel the same. I was once like you, afraid of death—afraid of life. And like you, I had to create all kinds of stories to satisfy that fear. There is a better way. Reality awaits you, and we will welcome you with loving arms when you decide to come along.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • JM

      trying to explain or justify "God's" behavior?

      God's???

      Does your 2-year old get to question your behavior? Who is the parent? Who is the child?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      i was once where you were kay. Thought life could satisfy me but always found that nothing could ever heal me of addictiosn or from guilt of sin. i need Christ. To say one doesnt need Savior is only pride within. What will happen when you end up in jail cell or middle of a desert will you still be relying on self? or satan atatcks you and hurt you really bad by some act of vengance from another human being. Jesus loves you soooo much kay and i want you to have him hun. I really do. I am like all others who like brian welch you know from band korn......he came to understand his personal drug addiction and he prayed and got saved and jesus also healed him of drug addiction. its on youtube. type in brian welch gets saved from band korn its there on youtube. actually two members gave hearts to christ. power of HOly Spirit comes in and heals abuses that have happened on peopel heart. no other can heal inward wounds of heart. or when christians pray and God moves, such as healings, mercy, releases, provisions, according to Gods will. How is it christian in my circle pray to Lord and they need 20 bucks and a person finds 20 bucks next day on there door step or 5 bucks they needed exactly for gas? Not coincidence.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @JM, If I am cruel, jealous or childish, I long for a child that would question me. As long as you think god's actions are morally superior to yours, you will always be morally below what we find socially acceptable. Any god that demands the murder of women and children is no better than any man that does the same. If you want to worship and exalt this behavior, then the problem lies within you. History has shown us that there will always be sycophants around to follow tyrants. I hope one day you have a moment of true internal searching so you can reassess what you are fighting for.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      i dont satisfy with stories, i once lived whatw orld had to offer and found years of that did me nothing but gave me heartbreak and endless cycles of going back to something that didnt satsify me and only caused me more pain. no imaginary stories satisfied me. it was breakthru of knowing God love was after me and i got saved and it was real and powerful. i hope you get same. jesus2020.com

      February 26, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      that lie you beleive kay. God didnt demand murder of innocent children and women. jeremiah 7 31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

      read it. Satan wanted to kill steal and destroy. stories were also shown to us to show what man has done and to have us learn so we do not repeat history.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @PLEATOGOD, In answer to your question, should I find myself in a situation I cannot change, as I often have, I will find peace in it because I accept what IS fully. I do not need a god for this and neither did you. I too had many addictions, one of which was god. In the end it was knowing myself that freed me from those things.

      I find it ironic that you speak of the holy ghost coming in and healing bruises, because I see the religious relationship with god much like that of a battered housewife who cannot leave their abuser. He beats you, and then tells you he loves you. He takes from you and then expects you to rely on him more. Again I say, if this is the life you want, then clearly something is broken inside. I don't mean that as a condemnation, but only as a recognition. You feel you need to fill a hole preciesly BECAUSE you have a hole inside. You can fill this hole permanently and find peace and love. But the answer does not lie outside of you.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      kay, im sorry abuse you faced from what man did to you. when God disciplines me for doing sin, it is one of out of love and done in love and not out of wrathful vindication way a man beats a person. God is never likea man. When he disciplines it is for my good but it is never in abuseive state as man does it. if somethign is taken it cuz satan takes from you. or it can be because people are in sin and they have chosen to trun away from God. you have to go back to God with all your heart. You will face so much warfare. satan goal is to make you hate God and think all of it was God. it wasnt. whoever abused you was not of God. a person who abuses let a demon control them and leyt satan work thru them to hurt you when God has plans to help you and give you a future. yes we will face many things that satan will come against us but we must always forgive and love and turn to God with all heart or else bitterness will get in our hearts. im so sorry for all pain you have faced sweetie i really am. i know that abuse hurt heart so bad. I had a horrible hole in my heart and horrible sins i could not overcome. terrible adddicitions and terrible sin i had done and only wya o0ut was Christ. already tried it my won way and never worked always had to keep going for more sin and could never stop but jesus made a way and he helped me and came in my heart. jesus never abused you. it was wicked men who let satan control them. If you let jesus have your heart he can heal it

      February 26, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      hence the statement. satan has coem to steal kill and destroy. if something is taken it is because satan has stolen it from you and i strying to kill you and destroy you thru wicked men who choose not to make Christ there Savior but rather satan there god and allow satan to operate thru them such as abuse etc. jesus is always loving even when we do have to face disicpine for sin he is always loiving and kind and soft even in our disciplines but it is never way you picture discipline you picture it way a man has done to you. you need to believe this and be controlled by Holy Spirit or youll never be free from bondage of bitterness

      February 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @PLEATOGOD, I don't blame other for what came my way in life. I'm grateful for it, because it helped me free myself. I hope the same for you. You say you were like me, but I know this cannot be true. Because if you were, you would have evolved past your dependency on tea.t of god. I would ask you, what can god give me that I don't already have? I have peace. I have immense love for all living things and non-living things. I have a passion and grat.itude for life. I have money, good food and a good family. I do not fear death. I do not fear life. I find joy and peace in hard times as well as good times. I'm compassionate, and considerate of others. What can your god give me that I don't already have?

      I'm sure it must eat you up inside to think that someone can be peaceful and joyful without god. I assure you it is quite possible. There is comfort and peace in reality. I hope one day you will break free of the bo.ndage of your new addiction to find this truth.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      well i wrote to you cuz i cared abotu your situation. you were abused and yes i do understand abuse. probly more than you cna imagine. but i could not make it thru such things in my life without love of Christ and without HIm helping me especially his healing. oh my word. you can have everything be good but what if tomorrow satan strikes and hurt you again by taking everythign away from you? you have deep hurt underneath your heart that must be delt with and only can be by obeying power of HOly Spirit to follow Jesus and receive healing of abuse you encountered from mankind. You must forgive the peopel who hrut you and you can only forgive by power of Jesus Christ in your heart. You must be willing to surrender everything cuz what if a day comes when thief come to steal kill and destroy you. We are not promised otmorrow. but if you just wanan reluy on yourself then that is up to you. i have no ability to change your mind but you must will it to want it and be changed. you are only keep bottled up inside your pain and abuse and unhealedness. Love only comes from God and those who obey God can love. i dont even know if you have HOly Spirit in your heart if you wish you can try jesus2020.com but you also must surrender to Spirit ofGod to heal your heart. if not that up to you. one day you may have next it may all go away cuz satan surely out ot hurt you. i wish for you ot be saved now so you can get in light and be ready for future trials and attacks from evil one. its not a talltail. i need HIm and realized i needed him. was where you were tried to do it on my own but that deep pain in heart could not be taken away. only by power of HOly Spirit. amen. and i need Gods help so much. i hope you will see that too dear one. but thats up to you. i left website. you can also try cbn.com

      February 26, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @PLEATOGOD, You just don't get it, do you? That's fine. I will end this discussion here. I'm glad you found peace, even if temporary and constantly needing to be refueled. For some people that comes in the form of food, others drink... for you it's god. I can tell you all day long that there is a better way, but it is for you to find on your own as it is your journey. Should you ever find yourself lost and lonely again in life, I hope you will look inward and accept what IS. You will find peace there, and it is unending. It does not need to constantly be renewed every Sunday or by reading a new bible verse to "keep the demons away" as you put it. YOU are the demons. It is your relationship with life that makes you see demons where others see blessings. Life abuses and scars us all. In this, we are all one. We will all die. Here too, we are one. If you ever want to break free of your addiction, know that there are those willing to help you. Peace.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
  15. Atheism=evil and amoral

    Here's what most people don't realize. Evolution and creationism are BOTH truth. God created the Heavens and the Earth. He took 7 days to do so. We have no idea how long one of those "days" was, since an immortal being would have NO use for our concept of time. So there is absolutely NO rule stating that God did not use "evolution" for His purpose of creating mankind and the various critters that litter the planet.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      WRONG WRONG WRONG...IN SO MANY WAYS!!!

      February 26, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      If god created earth in 7 days, why did he wait 7 billion years to watch a single celled organism combine with another single celled organism and eventually create every single biological thing on earth today? The man must have a crap ton of beer and women.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      NVRWRNG: You keep spewing the same nonsense when people already answered that question. If you don't believe, then move on. This obviously is not the place for you unless you are some intolerant ninny.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      You have to prove your god exists!! We know the age of the universe to within a error rate of less than 2%. We know the age of the earth to be 4.5-4.6 billion years old. Your buybull teaches that the earth is not that old. Evolution and creationism are far from the same. Creationism started with 2 Human's. Evolution proves that that is not how man came to be (basic grade 5 science)!! Science doesn't tend to lie! Your book was written by men over numerous years and not one of these men met the other. The book tells of harming children, women and humans in general. As science discovers more and updates information, your book remains the same! I'll choose the unknown any day over a bitter creature like your god!
      You can say we're evil all you wish but it is a proven fact that Atheists tend to be better educated than theists do. Don't make dumba.ss as.sumptions about people based on lack of belief unless you can back with scientifically proven evidence.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      To the contrary, we don't need to prove anything to you or others. If Jesus' miracles, resurrection, and fulfillment of prophecies weren't enough to convince you, then certainly I can do no better. All I can say is that if somebody told me that there was a way that I could know for certain that I could get to heaven and have everlasting life, more perfect and joyous than I could ever imagine, and I failed to consider it to be true, then I have nobody but myself to blame in the end.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @NVRWRNG, Educate yourself. You'll embarrass yourself less.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      @atheism – EVERYTHING in this biological world has a SCIENTIFICALLY ORIENTED ANSWER. Just because you say "It's god's will doesn't make it even remotely true. Give me science, not magic and I would in a heartbeat believe, because it would be TRUE. How ever, since there isn't one sign of proof that anything "magical" has ever happened, I will fail to conform to weak-minded individuals ideals.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      @ashrakay – what was wrong in my statements. I'd love to here this.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      hear*

      February 26, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • ashrakay

      @@NVRWRNG, Sorry bro.... that was meant for @Liberals are Stupid.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • NVRWRNG

      @ashrakay – thumbs up.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
  16. Andrea1965

    Christ resurrected appeared to the disciples, but Thomas couldn't believe it was Him. HE said to him: "Take your finger and examine my hands. Put your hand into my side. Do not persist in your unbelief, but believe! Thomas said in response:"My Lord and my God!" and Jesus then said to him:
    "You became a believer, because you saw me. Blessed are they who have not seen, and have believed."

    February 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • ashrakay

      Hercules killed a 7-headed hydra.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
  17. Remnant of God

    For the TRUTH go to ~ http://www.remnantofgod.org

    February 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
  18. PLEATOGOD

    http://www.gotquestions.org/why-did-God-create-us.html

    Answer: The short answer to the question “why did God create us?” is “for His pleasure.” Revelation 4:11 says, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” Colossians 1:16 reiterates the point: “All things were created by him and for him.” Being created for God’s pleasure does not mean humanity was made to entertain God or provide Him with amusement. God is a creative Being, and it gives Him pleasure to create. God is a personal Being, and it gives Him pleasure to have other beings He can have a genuine relationship with.

    Being made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27), human beings have the ability to know God and therefore love Him, worship Him, serve Him, and fellowship with Him. God did not create human beings because He needed them. As God, He needs nothing. In all eternity past, He felt no loneliness, so He was not looking for a “friend.” He loves us, but this is not the same as needing us. If we had never existed, God would still be God—the unchanging One (Malachi 3:6). The I AM (Exodus 3:14) was never dissatisfied with His own eternal existence. When He made the universe, He did what pleased Himself, and since God is perfect, His action was perfect. “It was very good” (Genesis 1:31).

    February 26, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • Craig

      what about the centuries of native American families who lived and died without ever knowing about the Christian God? (Christianity wasn't introduced to them until Europeans discovered the new world) How can Gen 1:27 be true in their case?
      They worshiped the sun and moon and the ground.
      Do they deserve eternity in Hell? Yes or No.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      You are truly frightening in your abandonment of logic and common sense. It is no wonder that there are so many atrocities committed this day across the world in the name of nearly EVERY religion, including Christianity.

      Believers and non-believers alike should be presented fairly with an image of a god who orders mass genocide for people of other faiths, commands his followers to divorce their non-believing wives and abandon their children, and commands his followers to kill "men, women, child, pregnant women...AND cattle" without mercy, in many, many places in the Old Testament. (e.g. 1 Samuel 15:3) This is the god that Saul of Tarsus fervently believed in the literal existence of, codifying his beliefs about Jesus around his strong fundamentalist (i.e. concretely literal) interpretation of the Old Testament and belief in the reality of the god portrayed therein.

      "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently” ~ Nietzsche

      sigh.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      Christ is the ONLY way truth and life. If we accepted any other way than wed be the devil who accepts everythign as truth when really that statement is a lie. in order for truth to be truth it is closeminded, it is consistent, it is orderly. You dont find true evangelical Christians straying from truth of message gospel...we are sinnes, there is a punishment and how you can be saved. it is consistent, orderly, etc. even brian welch from band korn got saved and healed (found on youtube or cbn.com) Truth is consistent and orderly and is ONE THING, not many cuz then it no longer is truth. Christ is only way truth and life. Many native americans and tribal groups are visited by missionaries who risk there lives to go ina nd preach gospel ie story of Jim elliott. Many native americans have had dreams of Christ on a cross. Whatever case the gospel is getting reached out to peopel. for those that reject it they will not be saved or go to heaven. if you wanna help further effort of reaching trivbal groups to be saved then receive Christ.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      Pleatogod, please tell me that this isn't the god you claim to worship, that he did none of the things below "for His pleasure."
      Please tell me and many others, that we are wrong. But show us how, don't just appeal to emotion or New Testament verses.

      The god who commands that females (preferably young) be treated as chattel (Deut 22:28 ff.), whose financial value immediately diminishes upon losing their viriginity (the same is not said for men) (Deut 22:13-21), and who orders that married women be brutally, publicly humiliated if *suspected* of adultery (Num. 5:17-31), executed if caught in adultery (along with the man) (Lev. 20:10-11), and viciously mutilated if they rescue their husband from a fight with another man by grabbing the other guy's nuts (Deut 25:11-12).

      The god who excludes illegitimate children and those with physical disabilities from entering his temple (Lev. 21:17-23)

      There are many, many more examples, including God's condoning slavery, assigning comparative liability to r ape victims, and commanding or personally committing many, many deaths of believers and non-believers alike (easily numbering into the millions). This is truly a "God of love."

      February 26, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      For those who are too young to understand, for those who are mentally unable to understand, and for those who never had a chance to understand, they are not held accountable.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      jim, hun, you took out of context what i was trying to speak to craig. it was not an ansswer for you but for craig. God made us for His pelasure to glorify HIm and love Him. not that he needs anyone but HE wants us to be a part of HIs plan and he has plans not to harm us but to have a future and a hope. You took out of context what i was saying. God did not create us for his glood pleasure in doing evil against us. satan has come to do kill steal and destroy us. But GOd has come to save us, rescue us, and save us but man chooses to rebel and thus make satan there god. if you chosoe satan then you are gonan have heartache anger rage borkeness and death and destruction. Choose Christ and you will feel peace healing and love from God in your heart. God wants u to have a loving personal relationship with Him and to know HIs heart and HIs love and forgiveness, not what you make Him out ot be

      February 26, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      @Liberals are Stupid: please provide chapter and verse, not just wishful thinking, to support your assertion. My Old Testament clearly states that these people are not allowed into the temple of "God" because they "have a blemish," and are not "holy" or worthy to enter "God's" holy sanctuary. Leviticus chapter 21.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Jim Stanek

      Pleatogod, please don't call me "hun." I wasn't writing in response to your response to Craig. I was writing in response to your original posting.

      Please hold on to your faith in Christ, I'm glad you have found it and have found eternal security in him. Please just consider the arguments against having faith in the god of the Old Testament if you are going to argue so strenuously that people should come to faith in Christ. Please be equipped to give "to every man an answer" and do your homework as Paul commended the Bereans for doing.

      Maybe this discussion board just isnt the most appropriate place to voice your plea for people to come to faith in Christ. Most people come here with a bone to pick with Christianity, or to ardently defend the Christian faith. I'm sure that most, if not all have heard the "simplicity of the Gospel."

      Glad you have faith in Christ, God bless you and keep you.

      Jim

      February 26, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • Oh Yeah

      Liberals Are Stupid
      I'm mentally unable to understand it because it doesn't make any sense logically. Does that earn me a free "get out of Hell" card?

      February 26, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
  19. Craig

    Christians:
    Do you think that if you were born to a Mormon family in a Mormon county, who took you to church however often is normal, that you would be a Christian today?
    Say your family takes yearly mission trips to an orphanage to build schools, you went to Haiti to help with the clean up. Your Mormon father donates a kidney to his Christian neighbors 5 year old son. There is nothing but good intention and love for one another within this Mormon family.
    Do you believe they deserve eternity in Hell?
    I ask because I know several Mormon families who fit this description.

    This is a YES or NO question
    Based on my description of this Mormon family:

    YES they deserve eternity in Hell
    or
    NO they don't deserve eternity in Hell

    February 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      saved by grace not by doing good works or thinking we are good people. good works and brownie pts wont get you into heaven. mromons do not beleive that Christ is Messiah and that He is Holy and perfect and sinless and has ability to forgive us of our sins. you must understand that Christ died on cross to pay for our sins and by his blood and ultimate sacrifice that sin can be removed and cleansed and forgiven from your heart by reciving Christ into your heart. mormons will not go to heaven. they do not claim Christ as God and Savior. You must understand depth evil of your heart and punishemnt and how much you need Christ and what he did for you on cross and receive it in your heart and ask Christ to come into your heart and turn from sin

      February 26, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • Craig

      Yes or No?

      February 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • PLEATOGOD

      none of us DESERVES anything from God, however God loves all mankind. Mormons will not make it to heaven. anyone who receives Christ as God will make it to heaven and follows in Holy Spirit.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Idaho Mormon

      Interesting. I have had this question posed to me in reverse from those of other denominations asking if I, as a Mormon, believe that they will be condemned because they are not Mormon, even though they are wonderful people who do their best to live good and decent lives. My response is always that God loves his children, and as a loving Father, he will not condemn those that are doing their best. I don't have all the answers, but I believe that He will work it all out in the end.

      Also, in response to PLEATOGOD, I find it sad that you do not think that Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is their Savior and the Messiah of all mankind. I can tell you that I believe with all my heart that Christ is sinless, perfect, and that through His mercy and love, I may receive forgiveness for my sins if I believe and have faith in Him. I know that I am imperfect, sinful, fallen, and am nothing without Christ. He is my Savior and Redeemer, and I try my best to live according to His teachings.

      If the beliefs of one Mormon are not enough to convince you, here are some direct quotes from mormon.org, which outlines specific and official beliefs of the church.
      "Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and the Son of God. He is our Redeemer."
      "Only by His mercy and grace can anyone be saved."
      "In short, Jesus Christ saves us from sin and death. For that, he is very literally our Savior and Redeemer."
      "Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and He will be our Lord forever."

      Here is the exact site, http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/

      God bless.

      February 26, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Craig

      @ pleatwood

      I didn't ask if the will get to heaven.
      I asked: Do YOU believe the Mormon family I described DESERVES eternity in hell?
      Yes or No?

      February 26, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • Craig

      What does your Bible say? I honestly don't know.
      The Christian bible says that that Mormon DOES deserve eternity in hell, regardless of any Christians interpretation of the bible

      February 26, 2012 at 6:59 pm |
  20. doug

    I don't think this guy meant to imply that Jesus was a drunkard when he talked about the penchant for parties Jesus had, which I read in someones comment – if I'm right in this then I am in complete agreement with this guy. Sometimes I wonder if the men and women who are so intent on dis-proving the Bible are doing this more to try to convince themselves that they are not condemning themselves by their rejection of the grace offered them freely. The one big piece of faith these Atheist folks are believing in is wrapped up in the Big Bang moment. They don't see this as "faith", but it is. What caused this event that created every bit of matter in existence today? (can't get away from those pesky Laws of Thermodynamics that all scientists know are true which state that matter cannot be created, and all of the universe is in entropy). Their position is basically "I don't know how the universe got here, but I know that God had nothing to do with it!". By the way, I was a staunch atheist for years and although I blamed my rejection of the Bible on the basis of not believing in "myths", it wasn't really the intellectual aspect of faith that kept me away (I never really believed I was in the same intellectual circle as people like Copernicus, Galileo, Pascal, C.S.Lewis (another convert) etc ( the list goes on and on). I just didn't want to play by the rules that God challenged me to recognize as His right as creator to put in place. Jesus said "come to me, all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest". He did not say that you need to clean yourself up and then come go him – that would be you, saving you, and not grace.

    February 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      Doug, I agree with you about atheists trying to convince themselves that they aren't condemning themselves. Otherwise, why would they care so much? I don't believe in any other God or book of faith except the Bible and you will never find me commenting on the Koran or other religions even though I'm very familiar with their beliefs. It seems like a colossal waste of time to condemn something I don't believe in. Why can't they just ignore the article or comment that they don't believe in the Bible, period, therefore, this article doesn't interest them? I think your analysis is spot on.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Liberals Are Stupid

      P.S. When you think about it, their venom spewed towards the Bible and Christians is much like that of organized terrorist groups. For a group who touts tolerance and acceptance, they certainly lack those qualities in themselves. It's like if they don't believe, they want to make sure nobody else does either. Perhaps they should join up with the crazy terrorists.

      February 26, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • Oh Yeah

      doug
      Jesus likely enjoyed social drinking as much as one can today without seeing it as a problem. The ban some denominations put on everyone drinking is completely not in his tradition, or according to his teaching. There is no need to "disprove" the Bible. Just reading it, with all of it's inconsistencies, illogic and gross vulgarity is enough to prompt one into shelving it as a book of myths and morals from a bygone age.

      The Big bang does not require faith, as it actually has evidence to support it, unlike the Bible's claim that God exists. We may never know what caused it, but that's OK because it's simply foolish to assume that we have the means to know everything. Inventing a cause, like God, is no more satisfying than not knowing. It's like telling a child "just because."

      The Big Bang does not violate any Laws of Thermodynamics as explained in this site:
      http://machineslikeus.com/news/big-bang-beginners-14-does-big-bang-theory-violate-second-law-thermodynamics

      C.S.Lewis rightly had an atheistic phase for a few years sandwiched between two periods of being a believer. 🙂

      February 26, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • Oh Yeah

      Liberals Are Stupid
      Have you been keeping up with your sacrifices to Jupiter? No?!? Then you, atheist towards Jupiter, are just trying to convince yourself that you aren't condemning yourself to his wrath, right? No apply that to all of the thousands of other gods that have been invented, or so you believe. We 'atheists' just dismiss one more god than you do.

      Not the same thing, you say? Why is YHWH any more believable than Jupiter? I see lightening every Spring, after all, and that's Jupiter's sign. Sometimes it even kills people. Surely Jupiter is great and mighty then. All evidence for gods being equal, you simply 'chose' which god to believe in if you actually converted from whatever faith you were born into by accident of birth. Might as well have thrown a dart at board blindfolded.

      You're right. As an atheist I don't believe that the Bible is right that God is real, and you have the opposite opinion. What's so wrong about our discussing our opinions on this subject in a place like this?

      February 26, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • Oh Yeah

      Liberals Are Stupid
      Like I said, you have your opinion about the accuracy and meaning of God and the Bible, and we have ours. We come together here to discuss these opinions. I, for one, wouldn't dream of going to a Christian discussion board or a church to raise doubt, but I've been to university Physics lectures and Freethinking sites where Christians weren't so courteous.

      Equating us with terrorists is like equating the folks who simply exercise their free speech by saying "I think America isn't all that great" with the people who actually kill Americans. Surely you've got a thicker skin than to cry when somebody criticizes you a little?

      February 26, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • Nii Croffie

      OHYEAH the sheer weight of scientific evidence does not disprove God. Atheism is a minority religion even among the non-religious because it twists science to favour it and twists the Bible to look bad. You r just offering the same arguements a Moslem has against the Bible. Science is based on faith

      February 26, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • Oh Yeah

      Nii Croffie
      In a court of law, if the prosecution had a mountain of evidence against the accused, and I mean every kind of evidence you can imagine, and all the defense had was the character references from those who loved the defendant, saying that he had to be innocent because he was so "good". As a juror, which side would you say has made the better case? Would it take "faith" to convict, or to free the accused? Having evidence gives me confidence that my position is the correct one, not faith.

      Atheists don't have to twist the Bible any way at all; it does a good enough job of making itself look bad. Like the author says you're just sugar-coating over the horrible parts.

      February 26, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.