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Terminated employee claims bias against intelligent design
NASA's Cassini space probe snapped this photo of jets spewing from Saturn's moons.
March 13th, 2012
10:08 PM ET

Terminated employee claims bias against intelligent design

By Stan Wilson, CNN

Los Angeles (CNN) – A former veteran systems administrator for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory claimed during opening arguments in a civil lawsuit Tuesday that he was wrongfully terminated for expressing his views on intelligent design.

David Coppedge, who spent 15 years on the Cassini Mission, one of NASA and JPL's most ambitious planetary space explorations, asserts that he was unlawfully fired under his employer's anti-harassment and ethics policies. JPL contends Coppedge created a hostile workplace while expressing his religious views with co-workers.

His suit also claims that supervisors wrongly admonished him for distributing DVD documentary films titled "Unlocking the Mystery of Life" and "The Privileged Planet," which present biological and cosmological explanations for intelligent design, according to the complaint.

Coppedge claims he never forcibly compelled colleagues to accept his idea of intelligent design in the workplace. Intelligent design is a conviction that life is too complex to have developed solely through evolution and that the universe was designed by an intelligent entity.

CNN's Belief Blog – all the faith angles to the day's top stories

JPL, based in Pasadena, California, is one of the world's most prestigious institutions for scientific research and development institutions. In Coppedge's civil lawsuit, he describes JPL's space missions as designed, in part, to explore the origin of the universe, uncover whether life exists elsewhere in the universe - or is improbably confined to earth - and whether conditions necessary for life to exist reside elsewhere in the universe.

Launched in October 1997, the Cassini mission to Saturn included a sophisticated robotic spacecraft that orbited the ringed planet and provided streams of data about its rings, magnetosphere, moon Titan and icy satellites. Cassini was the largest interplanetary mission ever launched, with the largest technical staff and participation of 18 countries.

In his role, Coppedge was responsible for making technical and scientific recommendations to management and developing presentations about various technical capabilities of new systems and upgrades, his attorney William Becker Jr. said during opening arguments. During his tenure, Coppedge developed a "sincere interest in the scientific evidence behind life's origin," which led to his conviction about "intelligent design."

Coppedge shared the view that life and the existence of the universe derived not from "undirected material processes," but from "intelligent cause," said attorney Becker.

In March 2009, Coppedge claims that his supervisor advised him that co-workers had complained that he was harassing them over debates about his religious views and coercing them in the workplace into watching DVD programs about intelligent design. During his opening statements Tuesday, attorney Becker Jr. told a judge hearing the case that Coppedge's supervisor threatened him with termination if he "pushed his religion" and ordered Coppedge to refrain from discussing politics or religion with anyone in the office.

During that 2009 meeting, Coppedge alleges, his supervisor became angry and belligerent asserting that "intelligent design is religion" and ordered him to stop. "The tone of the meeting and conduct were abusive and constituted harassment," his attorney said in court.

JPL spokeswoman Veronica McGregor said the lawsuit "is completely without merit, and we intend to vigorously fight the allegations raised by Mr. Coppedge."

In their response to the civil suit, attorneys for JPL stated in court documents that one of Coppedge's co-workers complained to his supervisor that Coppedge made her feel so uncomfortable in discussing "non work related topics" that it bordered on harassment. The supervisor encouraged Coppedge to limit his discussions about topics like religion and politics to periods like lunch breaks, according to the response.

The documents state that other co-workers complained they also felt harassed when Coppedge expressed views in favor of California Proposition 8, the ballot initiative in 2010 that defined marriage between and man and woman.

"David Coppedge alienated his co-workers by the way he acted with them, and blamed anyone who complained about those interactions," according to JPL in their response. "He accuses his former project supervisor and line manager of making discriminatory and retaliatory employment decision, when they had in fact protected him for years."

JPL alleged that Coppedge "was seen as stubborn, unwilling to listen and always having to do things his way, which frustrated project members and resulted in errors."

Coppedge was demoted after eight years as lead systems administrator and terminated last year. He cited those actions as a factor in basis for his suit claiming religious discrimination, retaliation, harassment and wrongful demotion.

JPL has denied Coppedge's termination complaint, contending he was among 246 employees laid off as part of a downsizing plan that affected 300 staffers.

"JPL complies with all applicable state and federal employment laws including laws governing freedom of expression," said JPL spokeswoman McGregor.

California Institute of Technology operates JPL, which is federally funded under a contract with NASA. Scientists are employed by the Caltech.

The case has generated interest among advocates of intelligent design. The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group, and the Discovery Institute, a proponent of intelligent design, are supporting Coppedge's lawsuit. The National Center for Science Education, which supports the teaching of evolution in public education, is closely monitoring the case.

Coppedge is seeking damages for wrongful termination, including attorney fees. The nonjury trial is expected to last four weeks.

*An earlier headline for this article identified David Coppedge as a scientist. His attorney later said that despite his technical work with computers, he is not a scientist.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Culture & Science • Science

soundoff (2,244 Responses)
  1. Phillius Thomas

    Sounds like the employer did some waste management with Des Moines, if you catch my drift.

    August 7, 2013 at 6:32 pm |
  2. Science

    Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/12/where-do-morals-come-from/#comments

    Gravity is not up for debate !

    BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !

    Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet..............................E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas.

    Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130425142250.htm

    Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.

    The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?

    The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

    Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130408165955.htm

    April 30, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Report abuse |

    May 1, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Report abuse |

    Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

    And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

    Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought

    Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

    No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US

    Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.

    No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !

    Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History

    Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130423134037.htm

    Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/.../page4

    Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

    Good stuff !

    The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

    Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

    Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

    For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/

    Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

    Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

    Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
    bears his name as the “God particle.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

    Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
    Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

    Science

    Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
    By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

    April 7th, 2012

    08:32 PM ET

    The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

    Make sure to read comments

    April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

    Breaking News

    NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/planet-discovery/index.html

    NASA: Mars could have supported life

    Star Dust we are

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWdU_px9ApE&w=640&h=390]

    Holy Hallucinations 35

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTCRdC8Dlo&w=640&h=390]

    The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

    Human Evolution

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2cHumanevo.shtml

    BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUliLKSJ4bQ&w=640&h=390]

    BACKFILL on E =mc2.....

    Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

    By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

    Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

    “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/

    May 4, 2013 at 6:47 am | Report abuse |

    Cheech & Chong's History of 420

    http://www.funnyordie.com/embed/3b1508d1f0Cheech & Chong's History of 420 from CheechAndChong http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=138711277798&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2Fvideos%2F3b1508d1f0%2Fcheech-chong-s-history-of-420&send=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=like&height=21

    All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

    The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

    Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

    Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

    Peace

    May 4, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
  3. Katie

    You tube Chuck Missler. He will blow your mind.

    October 24, 2012 at 10:34 am |
  4. tuvia

    B"H

    SHALOM, THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING.
    YOU SHOULD ALL HAVE A GREAT SHABBOS.
    HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

    SHALOM, YOM TOV.
    TUVIA

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=947by3X6_Ru&w=640&h=390]

    >?

    September 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
  5. Erik B

    Religious wacko-s are everywhere! Especially in the workplace. This story is not unique. I know a bible thumper who had a fit because he had to work with a coworker who was transgender. On top of that she (was a he) got a prestigious award as a female scientist. Blew his mind!

    August 8, 2012 at 11:03 pm |
  6. Archie

    I notice the Bible never does state any facts about DNA,, You reckon this could be problematic. For the tribes of Israel.or for all the incestuous behavioral people in the bible..???

    June 7, 2012 at 1:38 pm |
  7. Taylor

    Why doesn't CNN mention all of the whackadoodle nonsense this guy has been pulling in this trial? Like how his legal brief includes a 3 page "screenplay" of a conversation between a coworker and his boss, which he wasn't present for and which he admits to taking "artistic license" with? At the end of his story, the coworker bursts into tears over a DVD he gave her.

    May 22, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
  8. allenwoll

    Restrict the practice of religion to the sane !

    April 21, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
  9. dizzylucy

    Sounds to me like he was fired because he continually pestered his co-workers, and disobeyed direct instructions not to discuss religion or politics with them anymore.
    If someone is being disruptive and causing an uncomfortable work environment, what else is a supervisor to do?

    April 16, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
  10. KateDawg87

    Yes, and The Lord of the Rings is real too. It's written in a book, and I declare it to be the word of god.

    April 11, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
  11. christina knight

    What puzzles me is why this suit was not dismissed as frivolous, especially since there is no likelyhood that the plaintiff will prevail. It is clear that the plaintiff has no case and is just wasting the court's time.

    April 7, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • chinaconqueryoueasy

      hahaha..american legal system waste time on semantic..american redneck teach fairy tale as science..argue that theory is theory..hahaha..american redneck not understand dna or carbon date...easy for chinese to take technical job when american not understand law behind technology because of fairy tale inconsistent..hahaha..

      April 8, 2012 at 12:18 am |
  12. Nick from Philly

    I just love the way Christians wait for science to make discoveries, then commandeer the information to make it fit the Bible.

    You would think that God would bestow this information on Christians decades, nay, centuries before the scientific discovery is made.

    Current questions about dark energy and dark matter present the perfect opportunity for God to enlighten Christians about that stuff while scientists are still scratching their heads. Let's see who gets the answers first!

    April 4, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      It is all very well to point out that important scientists, like Louis Pasteur, have been Catholic. More revealing is how many priests have distinguished themselves in the sciences. It turns out, for instance, that the first person to measure the rate of acceleration of a freely falling body was Fr. Giambattista Riccioli. The man who has been called the father of Egyptology was Fr. Athanasius Kircher (also called "master of a hundred arts" for the breadth of his knowledge). Fr. Roger Boscovich, who has been described as "the greatest genius that Yugoslavia ever produced," has often been called the father of modern atomic theory.

      July 5, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • Truth Seeker

      Actually God said in His word that the world was round long before (thousands of years) "Science" said the earth was a sphere:

      Isaiah 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
      40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

      Funny how God talks about space being stretched out. Didn't they discover that in the last 100 years? Science, it is behind the times.....

      December 1, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Danny

      Sure thing Truth, but please stop using your computer and use whatever device the bible blueprinted to post instead.

      May 1, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
  13. Magic Jew

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    He was terminated for being bad at his job. Given his level of intellect, he should likely be working at McDonald's anyway.

    March 23, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • Reason

      Totally! If you "believe" in anything, you are, practically by definition, a crappy scientist.

      April 8, 2012 at 12:07 am |
  14. BoldGeorge

    @ Chubby

    There are many biblical predictions ('prophecies' in bible terms) that have been fulfilled, predictions that were made hundreds of years before the event, like the fall of some empires/nations (ancient and current), a natural and supernatural sign at a particular place, a catastrophe, etc. There are also many prophecies listed in the bible that were all fulfilled with Jesus Christ's arrival, death and resurrection.

    FULFILLED PROPHECIES might be one of, if not the biggest REASON to believe in and trust God's word, because of FULFILLED PROPHECIES. And there's a reason for them and the importance of them being fulfilled to the T. Fulfilled prophecies are for believers, so we may further trust God on His promises and also to know the times we are living in. They really are not meant for unbelievers. Why? Because the bible says that no matter what you show 'em, they will choose not to believe. And I know why...because of personal pride and the acclaimed (or rather 'excuse') of modern science. You eliminate pride and add spirituality, them you might start to believe.

    I would be more than happy to discuss some of these fulfilled prophecies with you, but you have to promise to leave science out of it for a brief minute. You see, the topic of bible prophecy has nothing to do with science. It has no "how" (well, the how would be God's doing), but it has a "where, when, and maybe a why". It is so fascinating. Though it is mind boggling, you can't just help but step back and say, "Woah!"

    March 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • WASP

      @BG: there you go again using circular reasoning to say your little book is real. the bible says that jesus was foretold,lived then died and came backisn't a prophecy, it's a story told after the man had been dead for a few hundred years.
      here i will write a prophecy" there will be born a country out of war with a queen that will rain fired down upon the land of the rising sun." how's that for a prophecy.

      March 26, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • ANDORIFWHAT

      GEORGE litte boy you said all..."The bible prophecies have noting to do with SCIENCE." SO shut up already.

      April 1, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • Gadflie

      The single prediction that Jesus himself repeated the most often has passed the deadline that he himself set and it did NOT come true.

      April 2, 2012 at 11:55 pm |
    • the voice of reason

      Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut.

      August 3, 2012 at 12:07 pm |
  15. BoldGeorge

    This comment is in response to a previous commenter who replied to my comment regarding 'having faith in non-evidential biblical matters'.

    Jon wrote:
    "faith is simply belief in the absense of evidence. It does not take faith to believe in Evolution, there is indeed evidence. It's the same with gravity, you don't have faith in gravity do you? We know it's real. The same goes with Evolution. However, it takes faith to believe that humans were created fully formed and separate from all life. It takes faith to believe (as I stated before) that a 2,000 year old book has more correct Science in it than modern Science textbooks."

    First, There's been instances (though unbelievable) where people have CHOSEN not believe even when faced with evidence. There are persons/groups that actually believe man has not set foot on the moon as of yet. They think it's been all a conspiracy. Here's another bizarre one: Some people actually don't believe there were any planes that hit the world trade center or the pentagon. I'm from New York City, I was there that day and trust me...those were planes (airliners) that hit the towers (don't let anyone, especially the media, tell you otherwise). And here's a paradox/irony for you: There are religious (christian) cults out there that have predicted the end of the world (a few times) and yet we are still here. But I find it bizarre that some people who have read in the bible regarding this topic of end times, that NO ONE knows the hour yet they still choose to believe otherwise believing the wrongness and inaccuracy of man.

    Second, modern science has not proven anything regarding origins of our existence as we know it. Again, how can you prove something that would take billions of years to evolve when no one can live long enough to record any data from supposed evolutionary process. There's not one single species that has ever been recorded (not one manuscript, scroll, ancient writings, etc.) to have evolved into another species. The most ancient of human writings only go back no further than 7 thousand years. Why is that? Evolutionary scientists have stated that humans go back way more than 10 thousand years. There is evidence of horizontal evolution, not vertical.

    March 19, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • chubby rain

      The first part of your post has absolutely no relevance to jon's post. His point is that evolution is backed by observable fact. Your point seems to be that people can and will believe anything.

      "modern science has not proven anything regarding origins of our existence as we know it" - You are referring to abiogenesis. Evolution does not attempt to explain the origins of life, solely how life changes over time.

      "how can you prove something that would take billions of years to evolve when no one can live long enough to record any data from supposed evolutionary process." Genetics. We know the rate at which mutations occur and by comparing genomes can predict when particular species diverged.

      "The most ancient of human writings only go back no further than 7 thousand years. Why is that? Evolutionary scientists have stated that humans go back way more than 10 thousand years. There is evidence of horizontal evolution, not vertical." Because writing and language are learned behaviors and it took over 3 thousand years to develop those skills. They are not encoded for in the genome, but the capability to learn languages and write is encoded in the genome. That is the basis for some congenital mental defects. Horizontal and vertical evolution don't fit your argument here.

      March 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • BoldGeorge

      @ chubby

      "We know the rate at which mutations occur and by comparing genomes can predict when particular species diverged." How are these predictions made and where are the end results of aid predictions. Remember, there has to come a time when predictions have to be fulfilled or arrive to a conclusion. You see, the bible has predicted/prophesied future events that have already come to pass with great accuracy and detail. Modern science can (and we're thankful for it) let us know how the physical world works. That's irrelevant to me and to a true Christian when it comes to what really matters: hope, joy, end-result, eternal life, moral values/standards and the most important one...love. So, do we really need faith for all these...YES! We need faith in God to supply all of these. Not that science isn't any good to learn. But lets not be gods about it.

      March 19, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • chubby rain

      If we have sequenced a particular genome, it's easy to compare it to another known genome and perform a statistical analysis of the differences. The more time has passed between the divergence of two species the more differences exist in their genomes. These results can be corroborated using the fossil record. It seems that we are using the word "prediction" differently as I'm talking about accurately predicting observable phenomena (that is the purpose of theories) and you are talking about predicting the future. Please provide a verified example of the Bible accurately predicting anything.

      Atheists experience hope, joy, love, and have moral codes comparable to those of Christians. The first 3 are human emotions, the last one is a social construct. None of which require a God. If you choose to believe in eternal life, that's up to you.

      March 19, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • BoldGeorge

      Exactly. That is precisely the END-RESULT and the major difference you and I have that I'm really talking about. I am no better than you are, not smarter than you (trust me, you're probably more intelligent than I am), I'm not more humanely valued than you are; in other words, you and I are basically equal. I am nothing more and nothing less than what you are. I will go as far as to say you are probably more well-liked by others than I am.

      Now, this is what we disagree on.....the hope & assurance of the eternal life. Believe me...it's a major difference like I just mentioned. And science CANNOT prove, disprove, explain nor give evidence (or lack thereof) of it. Modern science is the cornerstone of your belief system, as ancient writings that I consider to be God given, holy inspired and very relevant to modern times (as well as every society that ever was and will be) is the cornerstone of my belief system, because everything about this book has been accurate in every way, unlike modern science. Also, why is it that a Book on human history, geology, geography and morality (not to mention a manual on how to find heaven), has been warred against modern science textbooks? You ever thought of that?

      March 19, 2012 at 6:14 pm |
    • chubby rain

      About the first part, I agree that it is a difference of opinion. There are stupid atheists, smart atheists, obnoxious atheists, and extreme atheists, just like there are stupid Christians, smart Christians, obnoxious Christians and fundamentalists Christians. What defines and atheists is simply the lack of belief in God, nothing more, nothing less.
      “And science CANNOT prove, disprove, explain nor give evidence (or lack thereof) of it.” Fair enough, science attempts to explain natural phenomena, not the supernatural.
      “Modern science is the cornerstone of your belief system…” Not really. I just believe it to be the best means of explaining the way the world works.
      “…as ancient writings that I consider to be God given, holy inspired and very relevant to modern times (as well as every society that ever was and will be) is the cornerstone of my belief system, because everything about this book has been accurate in every way, unlike modern science.” I cannot agree with you here. There is no evidence that the Bible is accurate in any way. The gospels were written years after Jesus died, a roman emperor decided what books were included, and there are many, many contradictions (the death of Judas is one of these). I asked for an accurate prediction made in the Bible and you haven’t provided one. It’s true that modern science has been wrong before and will be wrong again, but that is how science works. It is constantly advancing, trying to explain new things and the results have been incredible. Every modern convenience that we have has been derived from scientific advancements.
      “Also, why is it that a Book on human history, geology, geography and morality (not to mention a manual on how to find heaven), has been warred against modern science textbooks? You ever thought of that?” Because science conflicts with a literal interpretation of the Bible? Because a lot of people, no matter what they believe, want to persuade others to believe as they do? There are many possible answers, what is yours?

      March 19, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • will fraser

      Bold,
      George,
      Please google creationism and read the wikipedia defintion.
      Then, please go to NCSE and learn about creationism and how it relates to actual science. It will help you (NCSE, National Cnetr for Science Education). Will

      March 20, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • WASP

      @BG:" An archeologist named Meg Conkey was actually the person who discovered the Chauvet cave. Meg found the beautifully painted cave by mistake. It was 1994 and apparently no humans had been anywhere near the Chauvet cave for thousands of years. These were the oldest cave paintings ever discovered. These paintings could have been created up to 32,000 years ago, but they look as though they were just painted yesterday. And not only do these paintings have animals on them, the Chauvet cave also has a whole wall full of hand prints. This cave is probably one of the best examples of cave painting ever discovered."
      we can estimate the age of these drawings by the people that once lived there during the last ice age which was 30,000 years ago. just like children learn to make pictures before they learn how to correctly make written language so did early humans. not to mention even when we had achieved written language it was kept for the wealthy and uppper crust, the average person for hundreds of years was kept ignorant to the written word.

      the whole phrophies thing, the whole bible is open to interrptation which means i can put almost any area or event in to it's meaning to accommidate my own objective. ancient alien theorists interrpt the bible passages to explain that aliens had a hand in our creation......there correct in that thought. if you believe in god, then you believe in aliens and magic. god was born nor created on earth so he/it is an extraterristrial a.k.a. an alien. many religions have foretold of events to come, nostrodomus foretold the destruction of the world, leonardo di vinci foretold of destruction in many of his paintings.....the bible is no different an impending doom makes it easier to gather the flocks and keep them in line.

      here is the next question; what came before your bible? if you want to truly educate yourself on the origins of your beliefs, research scholars that have studied it their whole careers, not some preacher that can be fired when he saids things you don't like.......trust me i have watched that happen. there are older beliefs out there, norse belief ends with ragnorok.the death of the gods and everything;however only two people are left one male and one female. why do you think that is? could it be because invading missionaries found it easier to convert the norse folks by telling them they had misinterrpted their beliefs, that norse beliefs was only the beginning of the story and the OT was the continuation of man. also look into banned from the bible 1 and 2. scholars go into all the different versions of the bible that were killed over and elected on that became the modern bible. educate yourself and be proud of having a mind or continue to live in blissful and however annoying ignorance.

      March 20, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
    • just sayin

      Wasp my God just told me you are going to Hell.

      March 20, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • WASP

      @just saying: like i care what the little voices in your head tell you. if you are hearing voices in your head other than your own, you have Schizophrenia
      Childhood-onset schizophrenia
      Last reviewed: February 7, 2010.
      Schizophrenia is a complex mental disorder that makes it difficult to:
      Tell the difference between real and unreal experiences
      Think logically
      Have normal emotional responses,
      Behave normally in social situations

      Causes, incidence, and risk factors
      Schizophrenia is a complex illness. Mental health experts are not sure what causes it. However, genetic factors appear to play a role.
      Certain environmental events may trigger schizophrenia in people who are genetically at risk for it.
      You are more likely to develop schizophrenia if you have a family member with the disease.
      Schizophrenia affects both men and women equally. It usually begins in the teen years or young adulthood, but may begin later in life. It tends to begin later in women, and is more mild.
      Childhood-onset schizophrenia begins after age 5. Childhood schizophrenia is rare and can be difficult to tell apart from other developmental disorders of childhood, such as autism.
      Symptoms
      Schizophrenia symptoms usually develop slowly over months or years. Sometimes you may have many symptoms, and at other times you may only have a few.
      People with any type of schizophrenia may have difficulty keeping friends and working. They may also have problems with anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts or behaviors.

      At first, you may have the following symptoms:
      Irritable or tense feeling
      Difficulty sleeping
      Difficulty concentrating
      As the illness continues, problems with thinking, emotions and behavior develop, including:
      Lack of emotion (flat affect)
      Strongly held beliefs that are not based in reality (delusions)
      Hearing or seeing things that are not there (hallucinations)
      Problems paying attention
      Thoughts "jump" between unrelated topics ( “loose associations”)

      Bizarre behaviors
      Social isolation
      Symptoms can vary, depending on the type of schizophrenia you have.
      Paranoid schizophrenia symptoms may include:
      Anxious
      Angry or argumentative
      False believes that others are trying to harm you or your loved ones.

      Disorganized schizophrenia symptoms may include:
      Problems with thinking and expressing ideas clearly
      Childlike behavior
      Showing little emotion
      Catatonic schizophrenia symptoms may include:
      Lack of activity
      Muscles and posture may be rigid
      Grimaces or other odd expressions on the face
      Does not respond much to other people
      Undifferentiated schizophrenia symptoms may include symptoms of more than one other type of schizophrenia.
      People with residual schizophrenia have some symptoms, but not as many as those who are in a full-blown episode of schizophrenia.

      they have treatment for your condition but i'm "just sayin'" lol

      March 20, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • SciPer

      I would encourage you all to read "The Language of God", an extremely thoughtful book by Francis Collins, the current director of the NIH and former head of the human genome project. He is a self-stated believer in God an puts forth a perspective that integrates scientific understanding with faith. One does not necessitate the other. Very insightful.

      March 22, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • WASP

      @sciper: ok so you're saying that faith, which requires no proof works well with science that requires not only proof, but is only accepted if challenged by peers and tested over and over again...............sure they get along great. lol

      March 26, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
  16. chubby rain

    @ Jenn

    "Evolutionary theory is great at explaining how an system can change but can't explain how the system comes about." Yeah, evolutionary theory is great at explaining how life changes - that's it's purpose and scope. Just like how quantum mechanics is limited to the very small things, evolution deals with how life adapts and changes over time, not how it came about. The theory that deals with how life arose from inorganic materials is "abiogenesis".

    "This is because of its failure to be able to get by irreducible complexity." Irreducible complexity has never been proven. Not one single experiment has been conducted that confirms a system is irreducibly complex. On the other hand, there are thousand of examples that show adaptation of existing proteins to new functions, disproving irreducible complexity.

    "This is why evolution is still a theory." This statement shows you have a misunderstanding of the very basis of science. A scientific theory is a possible explanation of natural phenomenon supported by experimental data. The scientific mindset is to constantly test theories by comparing observable and reproducible evidence to the predictions made by that theory. At no point can any theory become more that a theory (fact?). That just isn't how science works.

    March 19, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
    • the voice of reason

      Many people point to the Theory of Evolution as just being a theory. Well, there's always the Theory of Gravity to compare it to. And yes, gravity is still a theory.

      August 3, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
  17. Muneef

    Even if evolution existed it was & is by the will of GOD!

    Can we say that evolution to creatures is still going on or seized...?

    The present and future fears are the evolutions that are being unGodly but rather being created by scientific manipulations to creatures and creations...!

    March 19, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • chubby rain

      Please don't use a computer. After all, it is the result of the ungodly scientific manipulations that created transistors. And if you get sick, don't take medicine. Most medicine, especially the cutting edge stuff that saves countless lives each year, is the result of ungodly modifications.

      March 19, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Wayne

      1. Evolution does exist.
      2. No Gods are needed.

      March 19, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Bobby

      Muneef
      Most researchers in evolution would likely say that there is no evidence to suggest that anything unnatural is working in the process. Life can evolve without the aid of a "designer". ID supporters sound like defense lawyers trying to get their clients off by claiming that Bigfoot was the real murderer.

      March 19, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • GodPot

      "Even if your God existed it was & is by the will of my God Odin!!"

      See what I did there... don't look away Muneef, read it slowly and see if you can understand why your statement is as moronic as the above statement.

      March 19, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Muneef

      And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge and follows every rebellious devil. 22:3

      It has been decreed for every devil that whoever turns to him – he will misguide him and will lead him to the punishment of the Blaze. 22:4

      O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed – that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity. And among you is he who is taken in [early] death, and among you is he who is returned to the most decrepit [old] age so that he knows, after [once having] knowledge, nothing. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down upon it rain, it quivers and swells and grows [something] of every beautiful kind. 22:5

      That is because Allah is the Truth and because He gives life to the dead and because He is over all things competent 22:6

      March 20, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • Luc

      MooBeef Allah is a false prophet, Vishnu told be so.

      May 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.