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Atheist rally continues in spite of rain; students highlighted throughout
March 24th, 2012
05:44 PM ET

Atheist rally continues in spite of rain; students highlighted throughout

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN)– Billed as a watershed moment in the atheism movement, a gathering of atheists, agnostics and humanists drew large numbers of non-theists to the Washington Mall Saturday despite bad weather.

Put on by a coalition of atheist and humanist organizations, the rally was touted as the largest gathering of non-theists in the history of the world. Headlined by a number of high-profile speakers, including Richard Dawkins, the author of “The God Delusion,” organizers said the event shows that atheism is a powerful minority in American life.

“We will never be closeted again,” said David Silverman, the rally’s head organizer. “In years to come, the Reason Rally will be seen as the beginning of the end to the religious right’s grip” on American life.

With thunderstorms moving through the area, rain had threatened to dampen the event. However, Silverman and other organizers said they were elated by the turnout, especially in light of the rain.

CNN's Belief Blog – all the faith angles to the day's top stories

The idea of thousands of atheists gathering drew the ire of religious groups. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church, a controversial group known for picketing and protesting at funerals of U.S. service members, were in attendance and chanted at the rally-goers.

In large part however, protests were rare and not aggressive.

Silverman had said prior to the event that the rally would not be an exercise in “religion bashing,” but in a number of instances, religion and the belief in God was, in fact, denounced.

Taslima Nasrin, the author of “Shame,” categorized the Muslim prophet Mohammed as a charlatan, a pedophile and a rapist. A wooden cross was constructed in the middle of the crowd and a sign that read “Banish the 10 Commandments to the dustbin of history,” was hung from it.

An iReporter takes on the Reason Rally

Under umbrellas and ponchos, college insignia and fresh faces dotted the rally crowd.

For many of the students in attendance, the event was more than just a large gathering; for them, it was a coming-out party.

“The reason why events like this help is because of the confidence people get in seeing other people that think like you,” said Mark D. Hatcher, founder of the Secular Student Alliance at Howard University in Washington. “It is important to realize you are not alone.”

Hatcher and other atheists have co-opted much of the same lingo used in the gay rights movement. “Coming out” and “in the closest” are both terms regularly used because, according to Hatcher, telling people you are an atheist is comparable to telling people you are gay.

“Being younger, you are especially exposed to being labeled a pariah when you come out of the closet,” Hatcher said.

Rebecca Cunningham, a graduate of the University of Michigan, said that her freshman year at college was that moment for her. Cunningham was raised in a Christian family, but a few months before leaving for school, she started to doubt her belief in God.

Shortly after arriving at Michigan, Cunningham went to a Secular Student Alliance meeting.

“It helped me come out,” Cunningham said. “It was the first group of people that I met who weren’t religious in some form. They taught me that it was OK; they taught me that I was OK.”

Jesse Galef, the alliance’s communications director, said stories such as Cunningham’s show why his group tries to mobilize on campuses.

“One of the biggest things we do at the Secular Student Alliance is connect them [local groups] with a larger movement that is supporting them and giving them a grass-roots presence,” said Galef.

Jessica Ahlquist, a 16-year-old high school student who won a lawsuit against her city for a prayer banner that was displayed in her high school, was also a speaker at the event.

She touched upon the need for more student groups in high schools and colleges during her remarks. After the speech, she told CNN that students are a critical place for the atheism movement to focus its efforts.

“This community is all about bringing people together and talking about a secular future,” Ahlquist said. “I think that future comes from the students.”

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Atheism

soundoff (1,305 Responses)
  1. pam

    PRISM1234,Thank You very much ...

    March 25, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • jenny

      pam, please go stroke yourself somewhere else.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      @pam
      God bless you, keep you and strengthen you, dear friend.
      Matthew 5:11,12

      March 25, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
  2. Pipe-Dreamer

    ALL things be it animal or mineral or vegetable are creations as so are Planets, moons stars etc. called Creations. Only those who tend to detest there being a Creator of all things give many of Creation's creations a black eye!

    March 25, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • Pipe-Layer

      Bend over and I'll give you my creation.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
  3. nsp

    i don't get atheist and non believers... why be against something you don't believe in.
    it's like me rallying against the toothfairy or the easter bunny.

    March 25, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Jake

      Really? Is it just like that? Are crazy people using their belief in the easter bunny or the tooth fairy as an excuse to pass laws limiting freedom? To teach religion instead of science in science classrooms? To start wars? As a excuse to fly planes into buildings? I didn't think so.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:06 pm |
    • Gokubi

      Well you're right that you don't get it, but it mostly relates to being against Religion..... not god, or gods, etc..., does this help?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Steve

      I grew up in a Secular Humanist household way before it was acceptable. While there was some animosity toward the organized church, we celebrated Christmas with a tree that had an angle on top and always had a nativity set. Even sang Christmas songs. Easter Bunny always visited and extended family gathered for roast lamb cooked by Grandma. There was always a blessing said at the table, just never seemed to invoke JC or his Father. My wife and I, along with all of our siblings have raised our children the same way.

      Deeds not creed.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Cool story, bro

      Bro! Cool story!

      March 25, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • Joke

      Jake you said, "Really? Is it just like that? Are crazy people using their belief in the easter bunny or the tooth fairy as an excuse to pass laws limiting freedom?"

      What specific freedom that is granted to a NORMAL believer, but has been deprived to a NORMAL non-believer? Can you name one?

      March 26, 2012 at 1:37 am |
    • memyself

      @Joke Churches don't have to pay income taxes. Dumba$$

      March 26, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
  4. Me

    USA, USA.

    March 25, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • You

      STAY A WAY, STAY AWAY.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
  5. lol!

    Atheists had just simply got what they wanted.

    They have been WILD, then.. they got WET.

    March 25, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And? Did you really think they were upset by rain?

      Oh, wait..

      You must be under the delusion that rain is some sort of 'sign' from 'god'.

      More fool you.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • Bud

      No, more like simply observing that these carping, bitc hing, whining little girls don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      So, when we protest against sharia law, are we b itching and whining then too? I mean, we are equal opportunity... we want ALL RELIGIONS out of public office, not just yours...

      March 25, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So, Bud. are you SO afraid of rain that you'd forgo a 50-yard-line seat at the Super Bowl unless you were under a dome?

      Freakin' weenie.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:11 pm |
    • Bud

      You protested sharia law? Really? When exactly was that? Maybe as an afterthought, but it certainly never headlined anywhere except on the occasional billboard. How many was that? All I've ever heard from you mealy-mouths is that sharia was a minority concern, trivialized because it doesn't have the political impact that the Judeo-Christian electorate wields. This is, after all, all about politics. None of you would give a fat crap except for religion's impact on political issues.

      Tom Tom, You making a request?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure. What 'request' do you imagine I'm making, you retarded dolt?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Bud

      You're too obnoxious to have my Freakin' weenie. You'll have to look elsewhere.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No prob, dude. Your wienie is hardly unique or all that desirable, belonging as it does to a total moron.

      Weinies are a dime a dozen and yours ain't exactly among the top contenders.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Bud
      "You protested sharia law? Really?"

      Bud, what part of anti-religion don't you get?

      March 25, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
  6. Pipe-Dreamer

    National Pride here in the U.S.A. is being torn apart by socialisms awashed in dissentions and discernments affixed upon para-social selfishness wherein freedoms' gains are Prides' betrothed are humanity's losses. Too much social waywardness tears apart both National Freedom and Socialisms' Pride leaving little to nothing but stains of shamefulness' and bruised moral pleasure What can come from a movement that does not Believe in a Creator of Creation?

    March 25, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Chomsky's Wet Dream

      So basically you're saying that this argumentative mind fu ck called atheism isn't good for us. Got it.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • christina knight

      I would like to respond to what you said, but it was too incoherent to be understood. Please try to to write intelligibly so that one can respond to your thoughts appropriately.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:34 pm |
  7. Religion is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer is delusional.

    March 25, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Jeff

      Wait...I thought it change things.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
  8. PRISM 1234

    What does it matter what anyone thinks? Let them make their noises! They can gather themselves and rally , but it won't change anything. It won't change the fact that each one of them, and every person ever born into this world will stand before their Maker and give account of their lives to Him.
    Multi/tudes gathered together with all the power in this world that man can come up with, can not change this fact! Man's opinions are like a vapor in the wind, lasting for a moment, then dissipating into the thin air....
    But the truth is eternal, forever established by God who created all that was , is and ever will be.
    Those who say in their hearts that there is no God are as the blind, who by never seeing the light of day nor the beauty of things that surrounds them, have determined in pride of their hearts that they don't need guidance of those who see, and so convinced themselves into believing that all those who do see and are telling them of the world they never knew, are really the ones who are blind, and are just living in the 'pretend' world.
    But THEY are the ones who are lying to themselves, because the proof they pretend to seek was already given them, being imprinted by God on their conscience, which they have silenced by rebellion, pride, love of Self and sin that's in their hearts.
    Even if God Himself would come down and demonstrate in front of them who He is, they would still rebel, throw insults and mockeries at Him, and do just what they did to Jesus Christ.
    Humanity hasn't changed since then, it just got worse. All sophistication, technology and advancement of human race will not change corrupt human nature. These will only expose it's further corruption.
    Only Christ Jesus can change a human heart, making a person a new creation in Him. And this truth stands unshakable, no matter what men's opinions are... That alone is proof enough to be overwhelming evidence! God has chosen it that way, to open the eyes of the blind who seek Him and know they need Him. But those who think they see, and ar wise in their won eyes, to them He gives a spirit of stupor, that even while they have eyes, and ears, they can not see nor hear, because of what's in their hearts. The Eternal Word of God and the Spirit of God testify of this fact. And that's all that matters! Nothing else!

    March 25, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • momoya

      What does it matter what everyone thinks?. Apparently that's all that matters to your god or he'll fry you for all eternity.. Why so glib about such serious matters?

      March 25, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      That's just it, momoya! It matters what HE thinks, and what He says, because He is the God of all creation.
      It will matter to you too, at the end of YOUR journey! He is the LORD, and every knee will bow and every tongue co'nfess! Yours will do also, and you will mourn the rest of your eternity for not honoring Him while yhou still had time!

      March 25, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      P.S. He doesn't fry..... It's those who are allured by their own lust, through pride, desiring their independence from God who calls them to safety, and who chose to follow the voice of the enemy of their souls... it's those that end up in the place apointed for satan and his angels, which was never meant for human souls.
      Why blame God for their and your choices?!

      March 25, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, PRISM the Illiterate makes THREATS!!!!

      March 25, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • momoya

      PRISM, I'm sorry you have a virus in your brain making you disregard any sense or logic when it comes to the magical beliefs you were brainwashed with.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      @ PRISN 1234,,, Consider this,,, 1Cr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      Our Being but mere buildings should ring the bells of above average folks not to mention that we and God do labor together. As for being God's husbandry, I am in need of being tutored about this.

      Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is INSIDE you.

      Being buildings and now realizing the Kingdom of God is INSIDE Us,,,,,,,,,,,,, Why then should anyone believe otherwise when considering what people say regarding man-made churches and buildings made by our hands?

      PRISM 1234, Preach what Scripture tells us to 1st seek which is found in Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

      Science has but recently peered into our body called building by God and it is with much fanfair that we have put together a blueprint of God's buildings (our Bodies) The only trouble I see with biological science's studies are that they refuse to call our bodies as being God's Buildings.

      The Truth about All Life-Forms is that they are all God's Buildings, each and everyone of them are for God and God's ancestors, past present and future! Kahpeesh?

      March 25, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      TIME will tell ALL things! You still have YOUR day!
      🙂

      March 25, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      HOLD THE PHONE PIPE DREAMER!!!

      God's ANCESTORS? Do tell! please educate us all on God's ancestry... was he created by ZEUS? JUPITER? ODIN? RA?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post by 'PRISM 1234' is loaded with common fallacies, including the Willed Ignorance fallacy, the ad hominem fallacy, the circ-umstantial ad hominem fallacy, and multiple Straw Man arguments. The same post also contains a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      March 25, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • Jeff

      Falalcy spotter or Faux sporter suffers from acute esotropia.

      March 25, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • Jeff

      Fallacy spotter or Faux sporter suffers from acute esotropia and has been disqualified from spotting any fallacies.

      March 25, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      @spouting
      The One who set the Standard will have the LAST WORD. He is the One who defines the truth from fallacy. You have no chance with your argument against Him.
      I have no agenda, no claims of my own. Just declaring what His Word and His Spirit say. Because if there is one lost soul out there that may by the reason of holy fear inhis/her heart turn from the path they are on, and humble themselves before Almighty God, comming to Him for refuge, then my purpose is fulfilled.
      But it would be better for those who love their own ways to not say anything, because even a fool is counted to be wise if he shuts his mouth about things he knows nothing about, then to run it presumptuously in his folly!

      March 25, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Prior posts by Jeff are instances of the ad hominem fallacy.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      March 26, 2012 at 12:41 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Recent post by 'PRISM 1234' contains the ad hominem fallacy and also includes a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      March 26, 2012 at 12:42 am |
    • Really?

      "It won't change the fact that each one of them, and every person ever born into this world will stand before their Maker and give account of their lives to Him."

      The problem with your pathetic analogy is only 30% of the world even believes in Christianity. So your god is going to send to hell 70% of the population, – that is not a loving god but a monster!

      March 26, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • Huh

      "Even if God Himself would come down and demonstrate in front of them who He is, they would still rebel, throw insults and mockeries at Him, and do just what they did to Jesus Christ."

      I thought lying was a sin.

      March 26, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • Huh

      "Only Christ Jesus can change a human heart, making a person a new creation in Him. And this truth stands unshakable, no matter what men's opinions are... That alone is proof enough to be overwhelming evidence! God has chosen it that way, to open the eyes of the blind who seek Him and know they need Him. "

      That's why 70% of people in America claim to be christian and yet they are some of the most greedy, adulterers, gluttonous people on the planet. It might help if when you spew your nonsense that you aren't so full of greed and lies, it might actually make your claim about your Christ more believable.

      March 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
  9. Pipe-Dreamer

    As the branches of now time's socialism swing to and fro, the labeling of marginalized socialists' endowments do tend to clarify and settle amidst the long forgotten insinuations of bygone days and eras the world seems to have long forgotten.

    March 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • Pipe-Smoker

      Wow, man. Say more stuff like that. It gives me a nice feeling in my pants.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
  10. Chewbacca

    The Reason Rally was awesome, although the weather was a mess.

    I think its amazing we live in a country where this is allowed, even encouraged.... and there were plenty of non-americans there too.

    Check out my video below..
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2QEjZwg1BQ&w=640&h=390]

    March 25, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
  11. Kona Isles

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kBcg7ZQuGQ&w=640&h=390]

    March 25, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • momoya

      Oh, please.. We don't know exactly what will happen with the universe, but its death seems apparent and rather bleak.. Oh, well.. Deal with it.. Drink it up while you're alive!.

      Just because the eventual end is bleak is no reason to believe in fairy tale myths conceived and used in a very different time and culture.. Just because there's no "ultimate meaning" is no reason to cry out for what has no proof.. Look, if god wants to interact with humans than he needs to start interacting with humans–he should clear up all the confusion over his real name and desires..

      If god does exist, he doesn't seem to care what we think about him, that's for sure.. If he wanted to be known, he should have made himself obvious like chemistry or math–obvious fundamentals that require correct procedure to unlock further knowledge.. As the true sciences advance, they mesh more and more and prove the validity of the other sciences by their cross-functionality.. We're obviously way to dumb to pick up what god wants if hardly any two god-believers see eye to eye with each other.. There's proof of complexity, and we still know almost nothing, but so far there's no evidence for any sort of "god" type being.. Move on.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:52 pm |
    • momoya

      Oh, and by the way, there's no reason to think that our universe isn't part of something much larger and more beautiful and complex, and there's sufficient unknowns to allow for hope of sending data out of our dimensions (or our universe) into other dimensions or universes.. Science sometimes leaps forward; in a few decades, you might be transmitting messages to other universes that we don't currently know about..

      I see no reason to live hopelessly; and if someone needs to imagine non-proven ideas in order to feel like his life has greater meaning, there's no harm in that.. I mean, if you're going to "have faith" in something, just have faith that we are part of something bigger than us and more complex than we can imagine–you don't have to believe in human-centered gods and the like to do that.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • Kona Isles

      @Momo-WIthout watching the video why did ya respond?

      March 25, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • momoya

      The people who would be swayed by that sort of reasoning need to grow up, not revert to a childish belief that has no evidence.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • HypocrAtheists

      "WIthout watching the video why did ya respond?"

      @Kona.

      That is called, HYPOCRITICAL guess in atheistic science.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • momoya

      @Kona

      Why did you post the video?

      March 25, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • Richard

      Star stuff we shall be from start to end.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Kona Isles

      Momo- Craig does a great job in articulating the purpose of life while demonstrating atheism offers no such thing!

      March 25, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • momoya

      No, Craig is just using faulty logic to make a childish appeal to fear and "yuckiness.". Anybody swayed by Craig's "argument" doesn't understand how logic works..

      March 25, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Kona

      Atheism isn't a belief system so of course it doesn't offer any methods to live your life or think about certain philosophy or raise your kids or who you should marry or what you should think..

      Atheism is a LACK of a belief; it's not a belief, itself.. It's like being a non-stamp collector in a land where almost everyone collects stamps.. Non-stamp collecting doesn't speak to anything just like atheism doesn't speak to anything.. Does that make sense, now?

      March 25, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • Kona Isles

      momoy-Did ya really watch the video? or, is it that you are that obtuse that you can't fathom what Craig is talking about? Get back after you have had a successful debate with Craig, ok?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • momoya

      Yes, I watched the video.. Scientists have several ideas about how the universe might end, but it does seem as thought it will die.. You'll die much sooner.. What does it matter?. You, like most people, want to feel more important than you are, so you need to believe in 2,000 year old myths..

      Craig is appealing to fear and yuckiness, and that's not logic., There's no proof for your god, deal with it.. Have faith–or whatever it is that every religion and cult and denomination claim it is to believe without any evidence.. It's all you have.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
  12. False Dichotomy

    Chad: (lists five "facts") "those facts are not in dispute by any liberal or conservative scholar."

    CollegeAd..: "(There is not ONE contemporary historian who wrote about a physical Jesus, NOT ONE)...(Again, there is no evidence of this in any historical record.)"

    Chad: "MAYBE your first two assertions MIGHT be true, the rest is hersay and NOT FACT. What next?"

    What next?!? Chad, right from the start you're first two phrases are proven to be false. Right from the start it is made clear that you are making dishonest claims, and then you just expect to move on?!?

    Busted. Like most all creationists you are prone to outright lies. And it is such standard operating practice for creationists that you don't even blink when you're exposed. It's like "Darn it, that lie didn't work, okay what to try next?" It's beyond pathetic, it's reprehensible.

    March 25, 2012 at 6:35 pm |
    • Chad

      "Most modern historians agree that Jesus existed and was a Jewish teacher from Galilee in Roman Judaea, who was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire. [23][24][25][8] Scholars have offered competing descriptions and portraits of Jesus, which at times share a number of overlapping attributes, such as a rabbi, a charismatic healer, the leader of an apocalyptic movement, a self-described Messiah, a sage and philosopher, or a social reformer who preached of the "Kingdom of God" as a means for personal and egalitarian social transformation" - Wikipedia

      March 25, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • False Dichotomy

      But you didn't claim that "most historians agree." You claimed that "those facts are not in dispute by any liberal or conservative scholar." That's not all the same thing. It was not an honest claim to begin with, and neither is your sleight-of-hand attempt to support it with the Wikipedia quote.

      Truth matters, Chad. It's one of the only reasons that it is hard to debate a creationist – an honest scientist limits themselves to supportable claims and the best evidence at hand, whereas a creationist feels free to just say anything they want. It doesn't have to be technically true, or even remotely true.

      And when something is demonstrated to be false, they typically don't stop saying it, they tuck it away to try it again when they have a new audience. I've seen you do this over and over. Ironically, it doesn't seem to matter one bit to creationists if they have to lie in order to promote their version of the "Truth."

      I'm sorry if it seems impolite, but just as with b4bigbang and the textbooks (and I suspect that may have been you as well), I am sick of this crap and I am calling a lie a lie.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Chad

      Again, I'm fine demonstrating that for an atheist to hold their position, it requires them to deny facts that are not in dispute by any liberal or conservative bible historian.

      seems irrational to believe something is a lie that most secular historians have agreed is fact, right?

      March 25, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • False Dichotomy

      You're trying to change the subject again. I stated no opinion on the historicity of Jesus. I am calling you out on making false claims in support of your argument.

      The evidence you attempted to put forward said that your "facts" were not in dispute by any scholar. You then proceeded to include things beyond what your Wikipedia quote refers to, as well as gloss over the fact that MOST historians agree – that means some don't agree, and that is entirely different than what you said. It is the very definition of word dispute.

      Honestly, it doesn't bother me either way if Jesus is based on a historical person or not, but your range of half-truths, exaggerations, slippery word games, and outright lies simply would not be necessary if you were on the side of right with regard to Jesus or creationism. People don't have to lie to depict the truth.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:31 am |
    • False Dichotomy

      And furthermore,
      "seems irrational to believe something is a lie that most secular historians have agreed is fact, right?"

      Right! And yet you are the same guy who doesn't accept evolution. Clearly you're willing to show one face when it serves you at the moment, and another if it doesn't. Truth matters. Chad. Deceit is wrong, even if it is supposedly done for Jesus.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:43 am |
    • Chad

      @False Dichotomy "And yet you are the same guy who doesn't accept evolution. Clearly you're willing to show one face when it serves you at the moment, and another if it doesn't. Truth matters. Chad. Deceit is wrong, even if it is supposedly done for Jesus."
      @Chad "Ah, well the devil is in the definition isnt it 🙂
      atheists routinely attempt to cast themselves as the ones who believe science, and Christians as ones who dont.
      but
      nothing could be farther from the truth.

      in fact, creationists viewpoint is in perfect harmony with science, and atheism isnt, just looking at the creation of the universe:
      creationist: "God triggered the big bang and created the universe out of nothing"
      atheist answer A: "we dont know how and it doesnt matter"
      atheist answer B: "the universe has always been there, we dont want to talk about how we realize this violates the fact that the universe has been shown to have a beginning, and that we know it cant be infinite in the past"
      atheist answer C: "our universe came from an earlier universe, we dont want to talk about where that earlier universe came from "
      atheist answer D: "Our universe came from kraus' "nothing", we dont want to talk about how we realize that "nothing" isnt the absence of everything which we know must be the the original condition of either our universe, or the first universe because we know they cant be infinite in the past."

      as you can see, atheist dont have an answer, AND more importantly, are committed to ignoring the inherent contradictions.

      Atheistic science is NOT about discovering the real nature, its about proving naturalistic humanism and ignoring all else. They have a built in bias against God.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
    • Brad

      Chad-
      I would argue, as a believer, that science is properly atheistic. It is about describing the properties of our universe which, even as created thing, has consistent properties that do not involve the constant intervention of God. If the universe were not so, then it would would not be a truly independent creation, and it's hard, for me at least, to see the purpose in that.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Chad, you are finally starting to get it, in some twisted sense.

      Science is about discovering the true nature of the universe (multiverse?), wherever that may lead. Based upon "nature", it seeks to disqualify that which is not scientific. Fantasy has no part in scientific discovery, therefore, you rarely see scientists engaging in fiction writing, or even plausible conjecture, although there are some that do. Conjecture, however, is based upon provable science and the logical extensions of it. There, of course, is a built in bias against any gods, as their existence defies logic.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • False Dichotomy

      And again you change the subject and instead provide a series of fabrications. You conflate science and atheism, you claim that atheists/scientists say things "don't matter" or they "don't want to talk about it." Those are just simply not true, and the probability that you know they are not true qualifies them as lies.

      And as far as the statement that "in fact, creationists viewpoint is in perfect harmony with science" goes, well, you are disqualified from an honest conversation from the start.

      March 26, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • GodPot

      "They have a built in bias against God." You are funny. That would mean I have a built in bias against the tooth fairy, unicorns, jackalopes, leprechauns, trolls, teletubbies, barney the dinasaur and many many more figments of other peoples imagination. Why should I not be biased against things with no substance or basis in reality? You make it sound like a bad thing, but thats like walking into psyche ward and hearing one of the patients say "Hah, that guy is crazy, he doesn't even believe he's Jesus..."

      March 26, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • fred

      GodPot
      The fact you put God and Jesus in the same category with the Tooth Fairy, Santa etc. shows bias.
      The Tooth Fairy etc. are manmade and worldly because they give you tangible materialistic stuff. God says you must give away your life if you want to save your soul. God is eternal and speaks of eternal things while manmade gods are temporal. You know they were made up yet you cannot as an atheist know God or the things of God. That should tell you something but it does not which is bias.

      March 26, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • Really?

      "The fact you put God and Jesus in the same category with the Tooth Fairy, Santa etc. shows bias.
      The Tooth Fairy etc. are manmade and worldly because they give you tangible materialistic stuff. "

      Your god is man-made and churches, the land are the materialistic stuff they get from their religion. LOL! Your god isn't real dude, time to wake up.

      March 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • fred

      Really?
      I agree most churches are manmade as are many religions but, that is different than God. What man would come up with a God that cannot be confined to what man understands? What man would come up with a God that tells you to keep your pants on in a world that is dying to take em off? What man would make a God that says to give your best to your master? What man would make a God that says sell everything you have and give it to the poor? What man would make a God that is nailed to a cross then mocked onto death? What man would make a God that tells you to love your enemy?
      God is very different from the gods you like to compare with over time. Every man since the beginning of our recorded history makes the decision to accept or reject God. To accept or reject various gods is different than accepting or rejecting God. God has given us this choice and made it clear through creation the wonder of our purpose. One must work hard to claim God is anything even close to the gods of mythology past. You did not answer the question to accept or reject Zeus as God because in your very core you know that God is outside the limit of our ability to define even Gods image. We have been shown attributes of God that we could comprehend. No one can comprehend God other than that shadow of a graphic.

      March 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
  13. Voice of Reason

    just sayin

    How did that happen to you?

    Let's just say that I was born again! After nearly 3/4 of a century that shroud of ignorance has been lifted and my eyes have seen the glory of this amazing place we live in, with no god, no religion. I really feel a sense of overwhelming relief and I have an incredible amount of passion for the truth behind logic and reason. Your kind is a threat, it should be outlawed or at the very least TAXED!

    March 25, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • just sayin

      And that is how you became a fool?

      March 25, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • momoya

      Fools are those who believe in stupid magic sh!t; atheists study the processes that make the universe the way it is, and we admit it when we don't have a very good idea of something (why we are here/afterlife possibilities).

      Atheist: We don't know if there are supernatural realms or invisible organs (soul) or an afterlife; since we have no idea if those things might exist, there's no reason to believe they do.

      Theist: A big magic daddy did it because it looks nifty and I don't care about truth as long as I can believe in a soft ole teddy bear magic guy who is good even though the world has so much nastiness, but magic daddy is going to torture everybody who doesn't think like me and it will HURT for a berry berry long time!! Yep!!. I wanna believe in my magic daddy with absolutely no proof whatsoever. whee!!!!!

      March 25, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
  14. georgex

    That these people can have a rally in this nation is greatly appreciated. With the expression of different ideas people can evaluate and choose for themselves what seems more reasonable and satisfying.
    Have you seen the billboard with "You don't need God to be good", a very thought provoking message.
    You may have doubts about the absolute goodness of religion when looking at a history that set up one man as infalitable and never making mistakes or at the Inquistion of torture and death and the hundreds of years of the Dark Ages where questioning was considered a sin. Where would our medical knowledge stand now if those centuries of ignorance had been spent in open inquiry and scientific investigation?

    March 25, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
  15. Chad

    I'm curious, when Dawkins spoke at the rally, was he wearing his "atheists for Jesus" T-shirt?

    http://richarddawkins.net/articles/20-atheists-for-jesus

    March 25, 2012 at 5:12 pm |
    • Gokubi

      You do understand what he means by that right?

      No? Well let me help you.

      Being "for jesus" is a way to support some of the messages that jesus preached (love thy neighbor, do unto others as they would unto you. etc...) without supporting that he was gods son, or god, or magic, or whatever.

      In your previous post, that Yeshua Bar Nazareth was real and he was a preacher and was crucified might be true, there may have been a guy like that who did go around saying he was god and then was crucified for it, that's not crazy and there were many others who died for the same reason.... now when you get to empty tombs and witnesses of jesus's resurrection... well that's when you get into religion which I as.sure you, Mr. Dawkins does not support.

      Good try though buddy, pretty adorable.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Izzenee cute? Such a little corker.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
    • Gokubi

      Tom Tom

      I think the cutest part is that he thinks that if Richard Dawkins does something that effects all atheists everywhere, sort of like the pope.... except when the pope decrees somethings, I have a good feeling that Chad probably wouldn't give a sh.it..... hmmmmm

      March 25, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • Chad

      @Gokubi: In your previous post, that Yeshua Bar Nazareth was real and he was a preacher and was crucified might be true, there may have been a guy like that who did go around saying he was god and then was crucified for it, that's not crazy and there were many others who died for the same reason.... now when you get to empty tombs and witnesses of jesus's resurrection..."

      @Chad "atheists for Jesus dont deny the empty tomb, nor the early disciples reports. That's not "religion", believing that to be true doesnt make on a Christian (just ask the "Jesus Seminar" people).
      What makes one a Christian is believing that the disciples really did see a risen Christ, and they didnt just make it up.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:09 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      That we can agree on, but what's your point? I fail to see why I should believe someone is telling the Truth just because they are willing to die for it. I don't believe in the terrorists who try to blow themselves up in the name of allah and yet they kill themselves anyways because they believe firmly that Allah is god and mohammed is the prophet. As for disciples "seeing" jesus rise, it's all heresay that doesn't really hold up to any questioning person.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • Chad

      @Gokubi "That we can agree on, but what's your point? I fail to see why I should believe someone is telling the Truth just because they are willing to die for it. I don't believe in the terrorists who try to blow themselves up in the name of allah and yet they kill themselves anyways because they believe firmly that Allah is god and mohammed is the prophet."

      @Chad "but, if the disciples knew that Jesus hadnt been resurrected, they died for something they knew was a lie.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • momoya

      @ Chad

      People die for weird reasons all the time.. Also, perhaps the apostles did not thing that Jesus was resurrected, but believed his message though he was still dead.. Or, maybe the stories of the apostles are false. Or maybe the stories are embellished, or carefully selected, or a combination of all of these.. You're assuming way to much, and as a result, your logic has no foundation and simply gives way.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      I'm not necessarily saying these disciples knew it was all a lie, but it's pretty easy to go back to a tomb and find it empty and choose to believe that it was because Jesus rose when it could have been any number of reasons why his body was missing. Consider the fact that grave robbing has been a time honored tradition in the medical community for millennia. Anyone could have gone in and stolen the body to dissect it and learn more about the human body. Or consider that there's rumors circulating that Jesus charged Judas to betray him just so he could fulfill his own prophecy, who's to say that he didn't ask a disciple to also go and remove his body from the tomb?

      Now answer me this, if you devoted your life, reputation to a wandering holy man who then died and said he would rise again and then 3 days later, voila his body is missing, what other conclusion could you jump to? Just because they really believed it all happened makes no difference nor does it convince me just because someone really, earnestly believes in jesus and the ressureciton.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • Just the Facts

      Chad "but, if the disciples knew that Jesus hadnt been resurrected, they died for something they knew was a lie."

      The fates of these supposed unnamed eyewitnesses is unknown. Even the named apostles' fates are unverified. Christian legends about them abound, however.

      http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/apostles.html

      March 25, 2012 at 6:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Regardless of what people were willing to die for, Chad, it doesn't prove that Jesus was anything but a man.

      There's not a single thing you've posted that proves otherwise.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • Chad

      @momoya "People die for weird reasons all the time"
      @chad "people believe weird things to be true all the time, and die for them. No one willingly goes to their death for something that they know is a lie"

      @momoya "Perhaps the apostles did not thing that Jesus was resurrected, but believed his message though he was still dead.. "
      @Chad "The narrative of an actuall physical resurrection has always been the central belief in Christianity present in the earliest attested writings dated to within 15-20 years of His death. Christianity hangs on a physical resurrection, those disciples went to their deaths believing and proclaiming a physical resurrection."

      @momoya "maybe the stories of the apostles are false. Or maybe the stories are embellished, or carefully selected, or a combination of all of these"
      @Chad "earliest writings dated to within 15-20 years of His death (Galatians, First Thessalonians).
      To short a time for any embellishments, legends.. multiple independent attestations (more than any other ancient doc.ment). Pretty solid basis for belief.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      Sorry bud, but writings that happen years after an event written down by people with a tenuous grasp of their own language is not a solid foundation of belief, it's pretty shaky at best. Now, a strong foundation to a belief would be say, Many Romans writing down stories about the resurrection, mass conversion immediately following the event, no more jewish people, Jesus appearing in other parts of the world to preach the same "truth".... THAT is a strong foundation my friend. However the best christians have is Pauline christianity, a guy who is admittedly a big anti-semite who never met Jesus but just had a dream about him and decided to run with it....

      March 25, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Chad

      @Gokubi "Sorry bud, but writings that happen years after an event written down by people with a tenuous grasp of their own language is not a solid foundation of belief, it's pretty shaky at best. "
      @Chad "15-20 years after the event, many written by direct witnesses, multiple independent attestations, a historians dream really."

      no idea what you mean by "a tenuous grasp of their own language "

      March 25, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      Haha, multiple testimony written by believers about an extraordinary event that most likely didn't take place is not a historians dream, it's the sh.it they have to wade through in order to find the truth. Now please, tell me about something happened in perfect detail 20 years ago.

      Also, the "tenuous grasp" on the language is that most people in that time couldn't write worth a damn, thinking that these people could write down a story of what "happened" 20 years ago without properly being able to write is such shaky foundation it's more surprising that people have even taken this remotely seriously.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Chard, if you were on trial for murder and had to rely on eye-witness testimony to exonerate you, how much faith would you place in the statements of people regarding what they 'saw'?

      If your life depended on it, would you want to rely on the word of fallible humans?

      Eyewitness testimony is notorious for being quite unreliable.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      There is something that those who deny God and His Son Jesus Christ don't understand!
      Man (human beings) is a physical AND spiritual being. Those who live in this world without God, are dead, even though they are physically alive. For this reason they can not understand spiritual things, and deem them as foolishness. The only way to become alive is by comming to God through faith in His Son Jesus Christ. He has risen from the dead, so that those who come to God by faith through Him, may become alive in Him.

      It is written:
      " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
      He was in the beginning with God.
      All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
      And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.....
      That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
      He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
      He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
      Those are profound words that cut straight to the depth of every human being. WHAT we do with them reveals and defines WHO we are, and that determines eternal destiny of every human being.
      It would be better for those who boast themselves in their unbelief, ridiculing God's people, if they have never heard the Name of Jesus..... Because those who have never heard, but yet believed the testimony of His Spirit in their consciences, will stand in judgment against them, them themselves being justified.
      Not everyone's judgment will be the same....... especially for those who knew but refused! Because pride is a damnable thing to a human soul.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      PRISSY, if it takes you that much space to prove your claims, you aren't believable.

      March 25, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
    • Chad

      @Gokubi "Haha, multiple testimony written by believers"
      @Chad "remember, several of those folks were NOT believers until AFTER the sightings (Paul/James).
      That fact is powerful evidence in and of itself.
      The fact that the people who wrote about the events believed that they actually took place and were impacted by that truth clearly does not disqualify them from providing a credible narrative. That fact is precisely when believing and non believing historians view those events as historically accurate.

      ===============
      @Gokubi "Also, the "tenuous grasp" on the language is that most people in that time couldn't write worth a damn, thinking that these people could write down a story of what "happened" 20 years ago without properly being able to write is such shaky foundation it's more surprising that people have even taken this remotely seriously."
      @Chad
      a. "it was extremely common to use scribes to write down the testimony at the time, many of those writing specifically say that"
      b. "what evidence do you have that would indicate the disciples couldnt write? pure speculation of course on your part."

      ===========
      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son "Chard, if you were on trial for murder and had to rely on eye-witness testimony to exonerate you, how much faith would you place in the statements of people regarding what they 'saw'? If your life depended on it, would you want to rely on the word of fallible humans?

      @Chad "This is really an excellent example of the degree atheists will suspend rational thought.. Every single historical fact prior to the advent of audio/visual recording devices was preserved in history by eye witness accounts. Are you suggesting that none of that actually occurred or can be known with certainty?
      utter nonsense. of course.

      March 26, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Chad, then why is there no historical account for this man outside of this book written by his followers? Even in the Acts, the apostles realize that they are looked upon by outsiders as being drunk (2:13). What about Matthew 27:51-53? No one else wrote about a large earthquake that caused tombs to open and the dead to walk around the city for days. Don't you think an event like that would have been recorded? Yet is wasn't, save for one man, in a book of dubious sources that were likely tainted for political purposes. I can provide you with a list of first and second century historians who wrote not one single word of this Jesus. Doesn't that strike you as very odd, and your one, single, solitary source of information as suspect?

      March 26, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      Give me a break, first and foremost, Paul never saw the resurrection and only became a believer through the a dream he had, which isn't exactly rock solid. Second, when I say that the recordings are all by believers, it's because all of these recordings are in a singular book created with the express goal of making sure it supported a single point and has since been perverted, edited, reedited to fit a very precise end. Tom Tom's point stands that human testimony isn't solid evidence and although it would have been great to get the resurrection on video or with pictures, Human testimony is all we have but that doesn't mean we have to accept everything being said. Do you think when the Assyrians claimed their king was a god that he was one? It's fine to agree that an Assyrian lived and ruled, but to believe further is just idiocy, or in this case... Christian.

      March 26, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • Chad

      @AGuest9 "Chad, then why is there no historical account for this man outside of this book written by his followers?"
      @Chad "there are:
      -Flavius Josephus (Jewish historian) mentions Jesus , John the Baptist, Ananias the High Priest, James the brother of Jesus and Herod – Antiquities, Book 18

      -Tacitus (Roman historian) mentions "Christus" (Jesus) in Annals

      – Thallus (Greek historian) Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. His writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, who wrote about AD 221, mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.

      – Pliny the Younger (governor of Bithynia) mentions Jesus Christ.

      – The Talmud mentions the crucifixion of Jesus

      – Lucian (Greek writer) mentions Jesus.

      =============
      @AGuest9 ".... Don't you think an event like that would have been recorded? ..."
      @Chad "you are looking at the events of those days through the lens of our expectation of 24×7 news hour coverage. CNN didnt exist back then.
      Also, how many earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornado's do you think happened back then? probably about the same number as now, certainly several major natural catastrophes every decade, right? Were ANY of them recorded by ancient historians? Answer is not many, if any.. right? Why are you levying a different standard on the earthquake that occurred when Jesus died?

      When He died, Jesus was a complete unknown outside of one small community of one small country in the middle east.. How many people did Rome execute every year? Three on that one day in that one place alone.

      March 26, 2012 at 6:37 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      "When He died, Jesus was a complete unknown outside of one small community of one small country in the middle east.. How many people did Rome execute every year? Three on that one day in that one place alone."

      You would think that god would have better PR

      March 26, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • Chad

      Gokubi "Give me a break, first and foremost, Paul never saw the resurrection and only became a believer through the a dream he had, which isn't exactly rock solid."
      @Chad "you really need to get familiar with the bible before attempting to criticize it.. I mean, really geeze. you arent even familiar with the details of the conversion on the way to Damascus narrative... It wasnt a dream.

      "Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
      5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” 7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything."
      acts 9

      ==========
      Gokubi "Second, when I say that the recordings are all by believers, it's because all of these recordings are in a singular book"
      @Chad "the NT is a collection of first century independent writings gathered in one book (the bible) in the second century."

      ==========
      Gokubi " since been perverted, edited, reedited to fit a very precise end"
      @Chad "sigh.. there exists more early manuscript evidence for the accurate transmission of the bible throughout the ages than ANY OTHER ancient doc.ment, that's just a fact...
      please provide evidence of any "perverted, edited, reedited" it's utter nonsense..

      "A similar type of textual criticism is applied to other ancient texts.[106] There are far fewer witnesses to classical texts than to the Bible, and unlike the New Testament where the earliest witnesses are often within a couple decades of the original, the earliest existing manuscripts of most classical texts were written about a millennium after their composition. For example, the earliest surviving copies of parts of the Roman historian Tacitus' main work, the Annals of Imperial Rome (written in 116 AD), come from a single manuscript written in 850 AD, although for other parts of his work, the earliest copies come from the 11th century, while other parts of his work have been lost.[104] The earliest copies of The Jewish War by Josephus (originally composed in the 1st century AD), in contrast, come from nine manuscripts written in the 10th, 11th and 12th centuries.[104] After the bible, the next best preserved ancient work is Homer's Iliad, with 650 copies originating about 1,000 years after the original copy.[104] Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic War (written in the 50s BC) survives in nine copies written in the 8th century.[107] Thucydides' history of the Peloponesian War and Herodotus' history of the Persian War (both written in the 5th century BC) survives in about eight early copies, the oldest ones dating from the 10th century AD.[107] Biblical scholar F. F. Bruce has said "the evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning...It is a curious fact that historians have often been much readier to trust the New Testament records than have many theologians."[108]" wikipedia

      get real.. this isnt opinion, it's fact.

      March 26, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • Gokubi

      @Chad

      Dream, Hallucination. Potato potahto. Fact is, this guy went all crazy and converted, neat story, probably not true, but a cool one nonetheless.

      Second, the NT being a collection of independent manuscripts could be true in your precious little pea-sized christian brain if it hadn't been for the council of nicea that edited all these stories, pick and chose which ones made the cut and in all likelihood tweaked details to fit their own ends. By the time the New Testement was created it was anything but a collection of independent manuscripts but a collection of heavily biased, selected manuscripts specifically used to prove jesus' divinity and burning anything that refuted that fact.

      Chad, it's pathetic that you know about all of these events and different versions and yet still believe with determination that this is all factual and that people who lived 2000 years ago would never lie to you to fit their own ends.

      March 26, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Chad

      @Gokubi "Second, the NT being a collection of independent manuscripts could be true in your precious little pea-sized christian brain if it hadn't been for the council of nicea that edited all these stories, pick and chose which ones made the cut and in all likelihood tweaked details to fit their own ends. ...."

      @Chad "exactly what is your source for saying that? Because you think it's true?
      It's just amazing how atheists have absolutely no trouble with a viewpoint that has no basis in fact what so ever.

      Council of Nicaea AD 325
      We have MANY original manuscripts of NT writings available from dates PRIOR to that.

      "Parts of the New Testament have been preserved in more manuscripts than any other ancient work, having over 5,800 complete or fragmented Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 manuscripts in various other ancient languages including Syriac, Slavic, Gothic, Ethiopic, Coptic and Armenian. The dates of these manuscripts range from c. 125 (the John Ryland's manuscript, P52; oldest copy of John fragments) to the introduction of printing in Germany in the 15th century." – Wikipedia

      again, other than "well, I just know that's what happened", do you have ANY evidence for "perverted, edited, reedited"

      I dont get you atheists.. you seem completely and utterly unconcerned with getting any facts straight.. it's amazing.

      March 26, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
  16. Atheist and proud

    I remember refusing to say the "under god" part in the anthem in middle school and getting singled out and becoming a pariah. It offended me so I refused to say it, and the thought that people would be so disgusted by that is sad. Recently I realized why exactly I am an atheist. The world and universe as a whole just seems that much more fantastic and amazing without a "god or gods". Just imagining who everything came to be and how things fit together from the smallest atom, to time, and gravity, and even life itself is amazing and astounding. I have friends who are religious and we have both come to terms with each others beliefs, as long as they don't try to shove their religion down my throat, I wont shove mine. I wish this way of thinking was more common, because with so many different religions and beliefs, no one person can be right. You should be proud of who you are and what you believe in, but don't look down on others for being different.

    March 25, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • georgex

      You could have just lied and agreed with the rest of the class in the pledge, but I guess you were too honest. I think that is part of why people don't just go along with the crowd; that is, they see that the facts don't fit all the claims that religious people make. This rally shows that you are not alone and many others are on your side.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
  17. Plug1

    Look at all those white folks.....wood for the fire!!!!

    March 25, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
  18. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    March 25, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Yes, it does. It changes a relatively normal human being into a fool.

      March 25, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • just sayin

      How did that happen to you?

      March 25, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • Jeff

      Can prayer change the channel on my TV? I have tried it for over an hour with no success.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • AGuest9

      @Jeff, it's only supposed to be used for "important" things. That's why infants die horrible deaths and innocent little children suffer for years with devastating cancers. But, just remember, "prayer works"!

      March 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
  19. John

    This is funny i love reading about ignorant people (atheist) it just makes my day to show how they hate people who are nut freaks about religion when they are out in the rain being nut freaks about being atheist themselves..Religion and the Atheist the never ending war.

    March 25, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      You claim atheists are ignorant? How can you be such a foolish moron, it boggles one's mind to know that there people like you that just do not get it. In a heartbeat, I would bow down to you if you could provide me with something, anything that makes any sort of realistic sense. You can't, I know it for sure you can't, no of you can.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • TR6

      @John:” Religion and the Atheist the never ending war.”

      It’s a very long war and I probably won’t see the end of it in my lifetime; but, not “never ending”. Religion has been losing ground ever since the reformation and atheism has been gaining it. This is especially true for the last 100 years where the process has greatly accelerated.

      March 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • mitch

      The never ending war? No that's between you and the other religious morons fighting over who's fairy-tale is real. We believe in reason and being logical. This gathering is very important because we deserve a voice, we have a movement and its not behind a moronic book from the bronze age. The percentage of athiests is going up and religions going down, can't wait until all of you are gone.

      March 25, 2012 at 6:35 pm |
    • Dogger807

      I don't think you know what the word ignorant means. Atheist, on the average, know a lot about the subject they don't believe in. Lack of belief is not a result of ignorance, in fact it's the other way around.

      March 25, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • Nii

      Being generally knowledgeable about religion does not mean atheists understand Christianity or Theology. I've read enough atheists making mistakes concerning theology, Christianity and the Bible to know they don't understand many things.

      March 25, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • christina knight

      Did you know that more than 90% of the scientists that are members of the National Academy of Science are nonbelievers. All of these people are brilliant representatives of their respective fields. Can you consider these people ignorant?

      March 25, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
  20. Voice of Reason

    A delusion is a false belief held by a person. If doctors talk about delusions they mean that the false belief is the result of some disease, usually a disease of the mind, like paranoia or schizophrenia.

    Delusions also have other properties, according to Karl Jaspers

    They can not change (that is they are fixed)
    Those believing in the delusions are absolutely certain of its truth.
    The beliefs may be implausible or bizarre.

    March 25, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.