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Gay rights activists see Mormons softening attitudes toward their community
Gay rights activists hold hands in protest in front of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City, Utah, in July 2009.
April 17th, 2012
12:25 PM ET

Gay rights activists see Mormons softening attitudes toward their community

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) Kevin Kloosterman, a former Mormon bishop, said he “came out” last year just not in the way that many people associate with coming out.

“I came out and basically made a personal apology to (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) folks for really not understanding their issues, not really taking the time to understand their lives and really not doing my homework,” Kloosterman said in an interview with CNN.

Though not speaking on behalf of the church, the then-bishop stood in front of a crowd of gay and straight Mormons at a November conference on gay and lesbian issues in Salt Lake City, Utah, where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is headquartered.

Donning a suit and tie, Kloosterman was visibly shaken, struggling to find the right words as tears welled up in his eyes.

“I’m sorry deeply, deeply sorry,” Kloosterman told the group in a speech that was captured on video. “The only thing I can say to those of you who have been so patient, and have gone through so much, is for you to watch and look for any small changes with your loved ones, with your wards (Mormon congregations), with your leaders. And encourage them in this repentance process.”

Kloosterman’s apology was just one example of what many Mormons and church watchers see as a recent shift in the Mormon community’s posture toward gays and lesbians, including by the official church itself.

Though the church’s doctrine condemning homosexuality has not changed, and the church remains opposed to same-sex marriage, many say the church is subtly but unmistakably growing friendlier toward the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, including voicing support for some gay rights.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Students at the church-owned Brigham Young University recently posted an “It Gets Better” video about the gay and lesbian community there, while a gay Mormon in San Francisco was selected last year for a church leadership position.

A new conference series on gay and lesbian Mormons the same one Kloosterman addressed last year is seeing an uptick in popularity.

Church spokesman Michael Purdy would not comment on whether church members are changing their stance toward gay and lesbian issues but said in an e-mail message: “In the Church, we strive to follow Jesus Christ who showed immense love and compassion towards all of God’s children.”

Purdy wrote, “If members are becoming more loving and Christ-like toward others then this can only be a positive development.”

‘It is definitely getting better’

The Brigham Young students who taped the pro-gay video this month were contributing to a popular video series meant to inspire hope in young people who are struggling to come to terms with their sexuality identity.

The video featured students telling stories of being gay at Brigham Young, sharing tales of heartache, loss and even suicide.

“It kind of is a very different world to be gay and Mormon because it feels like neither community accepts you completely,” said Bridey Jensen, a fifth-year senior and acting president of Understanding Same Gender Attraction, the group that posted the video.

Explain it to me: What’s Mormonism?

“We put out the message for youth that are going through this, and we want them to know that we were them a few years ago, and it gets better and there is a place for you,” she said.

Though chastity is a requirement at Brigham Young, gay and lesbian students say they are under more scrutiny. The school’s honor code says that “homosexual behavior is inappropriate and violates” the code.

But Jensen said reaction to the video, which has been viewed almost 400,000 times on YouTube, has been “overwhelmingly positive.”

Carri Jenkins, an assistant to Brigham Young's president, told CNN that the production of the video is not a violation of the honor code and that the students will not be punished.

The honor code, Jenkins said, is “based on conduct, not on feeling and if same-gender attraction is only stated, that is not an honor code issue.”

Jensen said that while gay and lesbian Mormons face a tough road, she sees a shift toward greater acceptance. It is definitely getting better within the church, she said. “They are not so quick to judge. They understand that they don’t understand everything. I am glad I can be a little part of it.”

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Some scholars of Mormonism, such as Columbia University’s Richard Bushman, said they see the very existence of such a gay rights group at Brigham Young as a step toward greater acceptance of gays and lesbians.

“The last 10 years have been a huge sea change in terms of willingness to accept homosexuals,” Bushman said. “Gay kids are still going to have a tough time in the church, but this level of acceptance and acknowledgment that is really that last decade I would say.”

Most gay Mormons point to 2008’s push for Proposition 8 in California, which banned same-sex marriage in the state but has faced legal challenge in the courts, as a low point in the relationship between the church and gay and lesbian community.

Mormons make up 2% of California’s population, but they contributed half of the $40 million war chest used to defend Proposition 8, according to a Time magazine report.

The church’s Proposition 8 activism angered many gay rights groups around the country, with some labeling the church “bigoted,” “homophobic” and “anti-gay.”

But church officials pushed back against the perception that the Proposition 8 backlash has provoked a Mormon softening on gay and lesbian issues.

“Many positive relationships have come from the Church’s experience in supporting traditional marriage in California,” Purdy, the church spokesman, said in an e-mail exchange with CNN.

Purdy draws a distinction between being against same-sex marriage and against equality for gays and lesbians.

He reiterated that the church was “strongly on the record as supporting traditional marriage,” but he said its stance should never be used as justification for violence or unkindness.

“The Church’s doctrine has not changed but we certainly believe you can be Christ-like, loving and civil, while advocating a strongly held moral position such as supporting traditional marriage,” Purdy wrote in an e-mail message.

“We do not believe that strong support of traditional marriage is anti-gay,” he wrote. “We love and cherish our brothers and sisters who experience same gender attraction. They are children of God.”

Church doctrine says that sex outside marriage is a sin and can lead to excommunication. Since gay people cannot be married in the church, any sex for them would be premarital and, therefore, sinful.

“The distinction between feelings or inclinations on the one hand, and behavior on the other hand, is very clear,” the church’s website says. “It’s no sin to have inclinations that if yielded to would produce behavior that would be a transgression. The sin is in yielding to temptation. Temptation is not unique. Even the Savior was tempted.”

Openly gay and a church leader

Mitch Mayne seems to relish his role as a lightning rod.

Mayne, an openly gay Mormon who blogs about homosexuality and the church, received the calling a term Mormons use for being invited into a church position in August.

Mayne is now executive secretary in a San Francisco ward of the church.

“I view myself as gay and being completely whole as being gay,” Mayne said.

Many observers of Mormonism say Mayne’s calling marked a unique moment in church history. Purdy said that Mayne’s appointment is “not unique,” but it’s hard to find precedent for an outspokenly gay executive secretary.

Mayne said he sees his job as building bridges with the gay community in San Francisco and showing them “there are pockets in the Mormon Church where you can be yourself.”

The biggest obstacle toward building those bridges is the threat of excommunication, said Mayne, who told CNN that in some wards just being gay can lead to expulsion from the church.

According to church doctrine, a formal disciplinary council can be called at the request of church leader.

While the leaders of the church mandate councils called for murder, incest or apostasy, it has a long list of reasons to call a disciplinary council.

According to the church’s website, the list of reasons includes “abortion, transsexual operation, attempted murder, rape, forcible sexual abuse, intentionally inflicting serious physical injuries on others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations. …”

Some wards are observing that guidance while others aren’t, Mayne said.

“Here in the Bay Area ... we are no longer seeking out LGBT members of the church and excommunicating them,” Mayne said. “Our role is to bring people closer to the Savior, so if we are routinely excommunicating people, then we are really not doing our job.”

Mayne said he believes the challenge is to convince church leaders that they don’t ever have to excommunicate gay members.

And he said the Proposition 8 campaign was the “least Christ-like thing we have ever done as a church.”

“Not only did we alienate gays and lesbians, but we alienated their parents, their friends, those who support them the ripple effect went way beyond the gay community, and I don’t think we were prepared for such a negative fallout,” Mayne said. “I think the church deserved the black eye they received.”

He added, “As a result of that really horrible time, I think we are entering a really good time to be a gay Mormon. It is getting better.”

‘Mormonism doesn’t simply wash off’

When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints speaks, the City Council of Salt Lake City listens. At least the council seemed to in 2009 when it voted on an ordinance to make it illegal to discriminate against gay and transgendered residents in housing and employment.

"The church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage,” church spokesman Michael Otterson told the council.

Shortly after the church’s expression, the City Council approved the measure unanimously.

Many gay rights activists said they saw the move as an olive branch after the Proposition 8 debate.

“The tone and the culture is evolving, and the way the LGBT people are being treated is changing. I don’t think the church’s policy has caught up to that change in culture,” said Ross Murray, director of religion, faith and values at the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. “The Mormon church hasn’t gotten nearly as politically involved as they had since 2009.”

Though Murray sees the church lobbying for anti-discrimination laws as a positive step, he said the church’s shift is more about style than substance.

“It is going to take a lot of intentional effort to actually prove they are different,” Murray said. “That burden, because of the really public nature of their support of Prop 8, falls harder on the Mormon church than others.”

Joanna Brooks, a popular Mormon blogger and president of Mormon Stories, a nonprofit group that facilitates conversations on Mormon issues, echoes Murray’s sentiments.

She said she sees the church’s stance as challenging gay Mormons to choose between the religion they most likely grew up with and their desire for romantic companionship.

“Mormonism doesn’t simply wash off,” she said, adding that the church can’t make it that “either you are gay or you are Mormon, or either you support gay rights or you support the church.”

- Dan Merica

Filed under: California • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Mormonism • Utah

soundoff (1,904 Responses)
  1. Rainer Braendlein

    I don't hate and judge gays, but offer the gospel towards them. Some brothers on this CNN blog asked me, where the Bible calls gayness a sin. There are several verses. I have chosen the only one of Romans, in order to avoid a lengthy text, which would overchallenge habitual TV watchers.

    Epistle to the Romans by St. Paul (a book of the New Testament, which is a part of the Bible), Chapter 1:

    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    I myself am a Protestant, which tries to keep the genuine doctrine of the Early Church.

    I don't hate and judge gays outside the church (even inside the church I don't hate them, but there they need a special treatment). It is only, if they want to join the Christian Church, they have to repent before.

    Assumed my workmate, relative, neighbour, etc. would be a gay, I would treat him friendly nevertheless. Only if he would go to church, I would admonish him privatly and tell him he should repent.

    Why should a gay church member repent?

    Gayness is one of many sins, which is an indicator for our alienation from the Lord, the eternal God, which has made heaven and earth. Inside the Church there should stay only people, which are reconciled with God.

    A church, which wants to be connected with the genuine Early Church, has to keep this.

    A church, which tolerates gayness in her midst is no Christian Church, but has apostated from her Lord.

    I repeat, I don't refer to gays outside the church, but inside the church.

    Gays, outside the church, I shall not admonish, but treat kindly (however, if a talk about Jesus develops, I may confess the truth, that God, the Father, delivered his Son for our sins and raised him from the dead for our justification, in oder to set us free form every sin and give us a life of love and righteousness).

    Everybody, who hates and judges gays, should ask himself, if he is sinless and consider that even the sinless Jesus did not judge the sinners, but offered the gospel of deliverance, in oder to set them free:

    Romans 1:

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    Dear gay brothers, Christ died for your sins and suffered a horrible death for you, furthermore he resurrected for you, in order to set you free. Can you remain gay regarding Christ's atonement for you?

    April 18, 2012 at 7:26 am |
    • YeahRight

      "23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: "

      It always amazes me that Christians like Rainer skip over this part of that scriptures...they were worshiping a pagan god using sex that was part of Roman culture, it has NOTHING to do with the Christian gay partnership as we know and understand it today. The people doing it were straight former Christians who switched over to that religion. Now you have to ask yourself is your judgment against gays using this scripture telling them their sinners still a just reason NOT to give them their civil rights. NO it is NOT! ! There are worse sinners in the Christian communities but you're not blocking their civil rights now are you! What a hypocrite!

      April 18, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  2. Bootyfunk

    LOL. religions are always at least 3 decades behind on social issues.

    a better question is why would you join a club that hates you?

    Leviticus 20:13
    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    it clearly says in that disgusting book that g.a.y.s must be killed. how do you just ignore that? the bible is disgusting.

    April 18, 2012 at 6:22 am |
    • just sayin

      The wages of sin is death. Not just ho mo se xuality, but all sin. The passage clearly puts that type of perversion in the criminal realm,where it should be. God bless

      April 18, 2012 at 6:31 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      listen to how evil your religion is.

      first off, NO SUCH THING AS SIN. that's a vile idea, you self-loathing sheep. christianity is one of the most ignorant and evil forces on earth. but because most of this country is part of the cult, they get a pass. is there another club that preaches so much evil? that protects child molesters over the victims? that teaches bad information?

      and you say god bless. LOL. your god killed babies in the bible - why would i possibly want his blessing?

      April 18, 2012 at 6:54 am |
    • just sayin

      There is always a why to the Bible. You conveniently always forget the 'why' in your hate filled rush to judgement. Guess what you're wrong, you've been wrong and you probably will always be wrong. God bless

      April 18, 2012 at 6:59 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      I agree with Bootyfunk. Sin doesn't exist...and even if it did I fail to see how 2 people who express love to each other can fall under this category. Seems to me an all loving god would appreciate the bonds of compassion between people, not condemn it. How twisted is the viewpoint of the bigot when stats indicate that a significant percentage of their own family members(whether they are aware of it or not) are eternally condemned. That's Christian love for ya....I'll pass thank you very much.

      April 18, 2012 at 7:18 am |
    • captain america

      Your opinion does not amount to a mound of day old dog sh-it in America, is there sin? yeah Butt in neighbors trying to influence the decency of a Christian nation, with irrelevant crap. Next time you get a traffic ticket tell your magistrate there is no law. There's your sign

      April 18, 2012 at 7:26 am |
    • Primewonk

      just sayin – you miss the point of the verse. Your god is specifically ordering his followers, like yourself, to actively kill gay folks.

      The vast majority of you fundiots are refusing to do this. What is your justification for thumbing your nose at god, and refusing to follow his command?

      April 18, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • your god is irreducibly complex

      What is the "why to the Bible", just sayin? Oh wait, it's because the bible says so.

      It's funny that your evil book says to murder gays, but nobody seems to care about that or bring it up. How can a civilization that bases itself on such an evil book be "decent", as captain america says above? Oh that's right, thankfully the US was NOT founded on the Christian faith.

      April 18, 2012 at 8:41 am |
  3. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    April 18, 2012 at 6:19 am |
    • your god is irreducibly complex

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And scripture is not evidence, by the way.

      April 18, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!!!.!

      April 18, 2012 at 11:20 am |
  4. bobcat

    How easy it is for the oppressed to become the opressors.

    April 18, 2012 at 4:02 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      or is it that the oppressors are finally getting their just deserts...?

      April 18, 2012 at 6:23 am |
  5. christians are garbage

    eff 'em all up their stupid butts with a big jelly dong

    April 18, 2012 at 12:58 am |
  6. Frank Bund

    Mormons are already a bunch of soft pansies.

    April 18, 2012 at 12:53 am |
  7. Chris

    Mormons go pro gay to help Romney get new votes

    April 18, 2012 at 12:37 am |
  8. Pipe-Dreamer

    1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

    The above verse of scripture is to me one of the most important verses in the whole Gospels! Our labouring together with God seems to suggest we are working together for a commonwealth of inalienable constructs to be equated! God's letting it be known that He does ever have and hold the reigns of humanisms' husbandry! In finalities are we but buildings in which God and all God's Kinds do inhabit! No other verse of Gospelled scriptures can lay a hand on what this one verse does profess!

    April 18, 2012 at 12:34 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      i prefer Suess:

      From there to here, and here to there, funny things are everywhere.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:26 am |
    • Primewonk

      Szilard 88:16 I'm all in favor of the democratic principle that one idiot is as good as one genius, but I draw the line when someone takes the next step and concludes that two idiots are better than one genius.

      April 18, 2012 at 8:34 am |
  9. RMB

    I think the article was great overall, but I just want to point out that one of the main reasons the LDS Church supported Prop 8 in California was to protect religious freedom. You'll notice several other states have legalized gay marriage (New York, most recently) and the LDS Church has not taken any action. With Prop 8, however, what was being threatened was the right of the church to perform legal and lawful weddings within its temples, where only members in good standing are permitted to enter. Prop 8 was never about discriminating against gays or denying them any rights. It was about religious freedom, which is something the LDS church is very willing to fight for.

    April 18, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • Colin

      And Westwold has always been at war with Eastworld.

      April 18, 2012 at 12:12 am |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      RMB scribbled out typing,"I think the article was great overall, but I just want to point out that one of the main reasons the LDS Church supported Prop 8 in California was to protect religious freedom"

      True freedom(s) need no religion to pamper and be pampered! Religion(s) of this world are but sucking oodles of money from the very of weak minds and sorrow filled hearts! To hell I say the religions should go! Let Go! Let God alone and have him be set upon the book-shelfs gathering bust bunnies! Our bodies are God's true churches,,,, at least some of them are! The rest are but storeage houses and some are even mansions!

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      April 18, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • LinCA

      @RMB

      You said, "With Prop 8, however, what was being threatened was the right of the church to perform legal and lawful weddings within its temples, where only members in good standing are permitted to enter. Prop 8 was never about discriminating against gays or denying them any rights. It was about religious freedom, which is something the LDS church is very willing to fight for."
      Complete and utter bullshit. You are either a liar or hopelessly ignorant.

      Nobody was ever required to perform same sex marriages if they didn't want to. The only thing prop 8 was about, was to take away a constitutional right from gays.

      April 18, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • Pipe-Reamer

      Then again, I really don't care If the guy behind me is religions or not as long as he keeps giving me the gospel.

      April 18, 2012 at 1:27 am |
    • Coffee-Creamer

      You Bet! Stay right there and don't stop.

      April 18, 2012 at 4:22 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      you are insane. prop HATE is exactly about shoving LSD views of marriage on everyone else.

      "one of the main reasons the LDS Church supported Prop 8 in California was to protect religious freedom" - what a joke.

      "With Prop 8, however, what was being threatened was the right of the church to perform legal and lawful weddings within its temples, where only members in good standing are permitted to enter."

      if you get married without a gov't issued marriage license in a church, guess what? you're not married.
      if you get married with a marriage license outside a church, guess what? you ARE married.

      marriage is a gov't issued civil union. you can add religion or not - marriage is not about religion.

      i am part of a straight couple that protested against prop 8. it's a disgusting prejudicial law bought by LSD in order to discriminate against g.a.y.s. look up Leviticus 20:13, where it says g.a.y.s must be killed. what ignorance, what disgusting evil to kill an innocent man or woman because of who they love. religion promotes bigotry and hatred. let people love who they want to love.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:31 am |
  10. Pipe-Dreamer

    You wanna be free? Go work for a living! Tou want freedoms? Get married! So much for being free and having freedoms!

    April 17, 2012 at 11:59 pm |
  11. Sodomy = Yuck!

    Just because there are some out there who like to eat stinky, slimy, smelly crap, does not mean we should all have to sit in a restaurant and watch them eat the stinky, slimy, smelly crap..............But with the help of blind, low IQd supporters, it is very scary that the supreme court might have all of us having to smell the crap they eat before long.

    April 17, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      Sodomy = Yuck!,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.

      This once Great Nation of the U.S.A. has strayed way too far from moral justice! Immoralities are spreading like a cancer upon Her nationalized social constructs!

      April 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • christians are garbage

      yes christianity is like cancer and is ruins everything it touches

      send all christians to north korea

      April 18, 2012 at 1:05 am |
    • Josh

      To christiansaregarbage: You know, there was a time in history when people thought that Christianity was the reason for great wars, people dying, and to eradicate religion would be to eradicate the problems thereof. I believe that was the Enlightenment. However, as we can see in history, the French Revolution, an attempt to do away with religion, was the bloodiest till it's time. Your thought process then is quite faulty.

      April 18, 2012 at 3:01 am |
    • sam stone

      pipe: when did we have this supposed "moral justice"? when we could own people? when a group such as women or blacks had less civil rights? where is this moral shangri-la you speak of?

      April 18, 2012 at 6:14 am |
    • sam stone

      josh: we can all eradicate religion. everyone who does not believe just needs to not pass on what they see to be irrelevant mythology. realize here i am speaking about religion, not individual belief

      April 18, 2012 at 6:22 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      @Sodomy
      you're a moron. you probably get sodomized nightly and hate yourself for loving it. check out this article, it'll explain your pathetic hatred, it's about g.a.y.s with self-loathing:
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120406234458.htm

      seek help, get an education, leave the one horse town you live in and get some life experience.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:35 am |
  12. Kebos

    "scholars of Mormonism" – now that's an oxymoron

    April 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      Kebos,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.

      No more worse their wears! What I really hate are those Tv religious belladonnas that syphon millions of $$$ from the weak-minded soul-fearing morons of the sheeped and sheepishly dumbfounded!

      April 17, 2012 at 11:46 pm |
  13. Pipe-Dreamer

    Many "humanists" do today want only to love and be loved! Hate has become a no no within this world! I hate many issues and I hate but a few people I associate with! Hate and being hated is a good thing if understood correctly and with no malice! You can Hate me for bringing to light this no no word of emotionalisms! I hate the gays who did abuse me in my earlier years when I was but a lad and knew little about social constructs and people of immoralisms' decrees! I hate the drug pushers and especially hate these damned filtered cigars I now smoke! I hate my weakness of the flesh! Hate Hate Hate! There! I said it! I feel much better now!

    April 17, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      "Many "humanists" do today want only to love and be loved!" - propaganda.

      why do you assume atheists don't know how to love. you're ridiculous. because we don't love imaginary beings doesn't mean we don't love. you're whole argument is a logical fallacy. i love my family, my mother and sister especially. i love my fiance, i would jump in front of a flying bullet for her. i love humanity in general and believe, as DNA evidence shows, that we are all brothers and sisters. i love our planet and the incredible diversity of life it offers. i love the universe in its vastness and simple complexity. i could go on and on about what i love, and i'm an atheist.

      stop spreading lies to make a point. atheists, and especially Humanists, don't hate everything or have empty lives. i DARE you to compare christianity and humanism. humanism offers a much more compassionate and logical ethical system than christianity. the bible is nuts. have you read it? it says to kill g.a.y.s, non-virgin brides and disobedient children. god murder innocent people left and right. the bible supports slavery. do i need to go on? truly read every word of the bible instead of the cherry-picked passages you hear on sunday and tell me that book isn't evil. god kills babies in that book. babies. the bible says the earth is flat. how can anyone stomach this ignorant dribble?

      so get off your high horse - you get criticized because your book says to commit evil in the seemingly benevolent disguise of the good. if someone actually followed the teaching of christianity, they'd be among the worst and most evil people to have ever lived.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:45 am |
  14. Reality

    "Abrahamics" like the Mormons believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

    And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.
    ===========================================================================================

    April 17, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      Reality,,,,, Do you in all honesty realy think I could give hoot about what the "Royal College of Psychiatrists" do issue in and ladle out? They are on the take! And they push psychotropic drugs upon the people, these unknowledgable humanists and for what? Money! Pure and simple,,,,, Money! I could care a cat's ass what people get themself into! My Life is all I truly do care about! Except for my brother's Life and his kids and grandkids! I do truly not care what social construct you aspire toward! My God and all God's Sons and Daughters are my spiritual manifestations of my Fiath! No one else need apply!

      April 17, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Josh

      "early...environment." How can the Father create it if it is an abomination. Genes to be gay is the most nonsensical thought I have ever heard.

      April 18, 2012 at 3:04 am |
    • sam stone

      "Genes to be gay is the most nonsensical thought I have ever heard."

      Hmmmm...mankind is cursed because.a talking snake convinced a rib woman to eat a piece of fruit and you think that a genetic cause of ho-mo-se-xuality is absurd?

      April 18, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      "And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages."

      that's your prejudicial opinion. take that opinion and shove it up your @ss.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:47 am |
    • Reality

      From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, gay se-xual activity is still mutual masturbation caused by one or more complex, gene-related se-xual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

      Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

      April 18, 2012 at 10:33 am |
  15. 2smart4this

    Wise up. The only reason this is happening is because they have to change their image for the election. Believe me, they do not support gays/lesbians, women working, women making final decisions in the familly, any other religion, etc, etc. Romney says he respects other religions, he, as a Mormon, baptizes the dead because he does not believe that any other religion's baptisms mean anything. I could go on forever.

    April 17, 2012 at 10:55 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      You,,,, e,,,,,Others,,,,,One's soul does truly go on forever! Choose well your stance and position of things you feel deeply about!

      April 17, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      You,,,,, Me,,,, others

      April 17, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • Kev

      You mean like as opposed to the other Christian denominations who believe that Latter-Day-Saint baptisms don't mean anything. What does that got to do with Romney and the election? Was Romney so disrespectful of other faiths when he was governor? Besides, what makes you think that all Latter-Day-Saint voting U.S. citizens will be voting for Romney? There is also the point that there are more Latter-Day-Saints outside of the U.S. than within the U.S., so the importance of this U.S. election may not be as important to the church as you may think it is.

      April 17, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Karen Nichols

      It would be nice if people who spout their opinions had some facts to back them I am a very proud member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon). We as members will not change our beliefs or how we live and what we say just because of an election. We are too strong to let something so minor make us change something so important to our very existance and to our eternal lives. It is a false statement to say that we do not suport gay and lesbians, women working or other religions. I have several familiy members that I love dearly who are gay and we are taught not to judge others and to hate the sin but love the sinner. You may say that being gay and living a gay lifestyle is not a sin. The fact of the matter is only God can judge what is right and wrong so we will leave it to the expert. Secondly, I am a woman and I have worked the majority of my life, as did my mom and my sisters and my daughters, with absolutely no interference or condemnation from anyone in my church, male or female. Thirdly why would we need to accept any other religion if we are deliriously happy with the religion we have already accepted? We do not shun members of other religions, we do not condem them for their beliefs, nor do we say that they are not Christians because of their beliefs, unlike the label that is put on we Mormons every day. I believe in God the Father and His son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit. I have one husband and my husband has one wife. We work together as one unit when it comes to our marriage, our home and our children. I don't over rule him and he does not over rule me. But mothers and wives I know who are members of the church really do have a lot of power in the home and in what decisions are made. Why do you think the LDS church has grown so large so quickly? Mothers and wives rule the world but God holds our hands while we do it.

      April 18, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • Primewonk

      @ pipe-dreamer – if we take up a collection, will you go buy a new comma key? Your refusal to replace your broken one is very disturbing.

      April 18, 2012 at 8:40 am |
  16. Sodomy = Yuck!

    See how the godless and the q_u_e_e_r_s seem to go hand in hand with eachother.................So pathetic!

    April 17, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      Double Yucks,,,,,,,,,,,, ,.

      April 17, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
    • christians are garbage

      you two should get a room together

      and bang each other hard in the butts till youre bleeding and cant walk right for a month

      i bet youll feel a lot better about yourselves

      since its painfully obvious youre both in the closet

      April 18, 2012 at 1:07 am |
    • sam stone

      sodomy=yuck: maybe you and pipe can have a circle jerk together and see who co-m-es in the same of the lord first

      April 18, 2012 at 6:33 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      @sodomy
      i'm starting to think you're just a troll laughing your @ss off that people respond to your moronic ravings. i don't think you even believe the cr@p you're selling. either that or your mom got kicked in the stomach when she was pregnant with you. get an education. seriously.

      April 18, 2012 at 6:49 am |
  17. Obadiah

    Though not featured in the video mentioned, I too am a gay Mormon at BYU. I truly do see a positive shift in perception in the Church. My own "it gets better" message can be found at my own blog:

    http://bit.ly/J3qghw

    It truly does get better, and with God it gets best.

    –Obadiah

    April 17, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
  18. Pipe-Dreamer

    The "ways of the world" are for the worldly! The ways of the One are not for the worldly and their ways! As One does make settlements with the "Only-One", (the God of Celestial Creationisms), peace-will be bred from within the insides of One's Body, the True church'd Buildings of God, the Only-One! These worldly ways of "oppressivisms" weigh heavily upon the yolked! For, to lighten one's yolk of worldly bondages turn in your heavily ladled weights of immoralities for a lighter yolk of believabilities in God1 Do not risk your soul in the crankiness of others' words whose contemptuousness does lay in the riddlings rattles of "boisterisms" in unholy verbalisms of untruths!

    April 17, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • Pipe-Dreamer

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      We in all Truth are literally God's buildings!

      April 17, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
  19. mikstov33

    If Romney really wanted to win this fall, he would come up with a proposal for accomodating gay unions on a national basis. Since he is really a liberal at heart, maybe he will legalize marijuana,too. Since niether of those things are going to happen,I guess four more years of Obie are in order! Besides, he would be excommunicated in a Salt Lake minute...
    Peoples personal lifestyles are none of my business, and should be of no concern to the government or the churches. I tend to defer those types of judements to the Almighty himself, and Mormons,Catholics, Evangelicals, Muslims and any other belief should do the same. Just my opinion.

    April 17, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
  20. burn the bible

    what a stupid piece of crap...waste of paper!
    wipe you ass with it!

    April 17, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • edwardo

      Consider it burned and wiped! Agreed!

      April 17, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Carml

      Pretty much! What a farce.......

      April 17, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.