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My Take: 7 life lessons from a Holocaust survivor
Author Caroline Stoessinger, right, befriended Holocaust survivor Alice Herz-Sommers.
April 19th, 2012
01:27 PM ET

My Take: 7 life lessons from a Holocaust survivor

Editor's Note: Caroline Stoessinger, a concert pianist, is the author of "A Century of Wisdom: Lesson's From the Life of Alice Herz-Sommer, the World's Oldest Living Holocaust Survivor."

By Caroline Stoessinger, Special to CNN

At age 108, Alice Herz-Sommers is the world's oldest survivor of the Holocaust. She was imprisoned at Theresienstadt, which was conceived by Hitler as a "model" concentration camp.

Herz-Sommers - Alice, as I know her - is a pianist. In between summer 1943 and the camp's liberation at the end of the war, she played more than 100 concerts at Theresienstadt. Most were solo recitals culled from memory from her extensive repertoire. She has survived for more than a century with a profound faith in humanity intact and a smile on her face.

As music is her kind of prayer, Alice still practices piano - Bach, Beethoven, Schubert – for three hours every day.

I got to know her in London, where she now lives, through mutual friends who are musicians, historians and Holocaust survivors. For Holocaust Remembrance Day, here are 7 lessons she has taught me:

1. Hatred only begets hatred

Alice recognizes that anyone, anywhere, and at any time can adopt hatred and, worse, can infect others with its venom. Hatred that may begin with one person, like a single pebble cast into a lake, can spread out incrementally to larger and larger groups, and even to entire nations.

"We are responsible for our actions and our words," she says. " And each of us must vigilantly guard against prejudice and hatred in our own minds and with the words that fall from our lips. No one is exempt. Hitler could not have come to power except in the climate of excessive hatred."

2. Love your work, no matter the situation

Reinhard Heydrich, Hitler's "hangman," and his underlings understood that adding musical and artistic events to Theresienstadt could be a huge publicity stunt, to prove to the outside world that all was OK for the Jews.

They ordered the prisoners to form a Freizeitgestaltung, or Free Time Committee, to organize concerts, lectures and other events. Crudely printed posters appeared to advertise the programs.

Prisoners had no money so tickets were free. So many musicians had been sent to Theresienstadt that for a time before the members were shipped to their deaths in Auschwitz, four symphony orchestras could play there simultaneously.

The artists took their performances just as seriously as if they were performing on the world stage. "As our situation became even more difficult, we tried even harder to reach for perfection, for the meaning in the music," Alice says. "Music was our way of remembering our inner selves, our values."

The Nazis failed to understand that the power of music to provide comfort and hope to the performers and their audiences was stronger than the terror of their Nazi masters. Every composition that
was written in Theresienstadt, every concert played there, became a moral victory against the enemy.

3. Perseverance

On Alice's third day in Theresienstadt, she was told to play a recital the following week. "But I need to practice," she responded.

The next morning, Alice found the room where she had been assigned the 9:00 – 10:00 practice slot. With no time to waste, she began to work on her Chopin etudes only to find that the pedal did not work and that several keys stuck repeatedly.

Refusing to be defeated, she quickly adapted to the piano's limitations and began to play with abandon, losing herself in the music. "At least I was making music and that always made me happy," she says.

Despite the conditions in the camp and the inadequate, broken-down, legless instruments provided for concerts, emotionally she may have given her finest interpretations of Beethoven's and Schubert's sonatas in Theresienstadt.

4. In routine there is hope

Despite the filth and hunger, Alice's routine life of working her obligatory factory job, performing, caring for her six-year-old son Rafi, and giving him and a few other children elementary piano lessons in spare moments helped her never to lose hope.

"We were not heroic," Alice says. "We improvised. We managed to keep doing, keep working as usual. To not practice was unthinkable."

5. If you have something spiritual, you don't need as much food

In the camp Alice learned what she could live without. Rather than grieving for what she did not have, she rejoiced in what she had. Alice knew that no one could rob her of the treasures of her mind. "I am richer than the world's richest person because I have music in my heart and mind," she says today.

While performing the prisoners could nearly forget their hunger and their surroundings. Besides the terror of finding their names on a deportation list for Auschwitz, the fear of dying of starvation, typhus, and other diseases had become a reality.

"Music was our food, our religion and our hope," she says. "Music was life. We did not, could not, would not give up."

6. Complaining does not help. It makes everyone feel bad.

Alice is anything but naïve and is acutely aware of the evil that has always been present in our world. "I know about the bad, but I look for the good," she says.

7. Faith is stronger than fear.

As she faces the last years of her life, Alice does not waste time with fears of death and worries about the unknown. "We come from and return to infinity," she says. "The soul
lives on without the body." Alice finds consolation in her spiritual theme song, "Urlicht," with its opening words "I come from God and I will return to God."

"Things are as they are supposed to be," she says. "I am still here, never too old so long as I breathe to wonder, to learn, and to teach."

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Caroline Stoessinger.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Holocaust • Judaism • Opinion

soundoff (507 Responses)
  1. Marsha

    Not only 6 million Jews died on the holocaust.... so did tens of millions of other non-Jews too. Why ignore them?!
    Ridiculous.

    Let´s not forget the Armenian/Assyrian genocide in 1915............

    April 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • Kalessin

      I don't think anyone is forgetting the Roma and others that were killed. It's just that the Jewish ppl were one of (if not the largest) group to be persecuted and sought out by the Nazi.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • md2205

      The Nazis picked out and specifically targeted the Jews, and they did this from the very beginning - the Nazi Party Program of February 19201 to the very end in 1945. Hitler had written a letter in 1919 in which he called for the removal of the Jews if he ever took power.

      In Mein Kampf, there are dozens of pas-sages that vili-fy and demonize the Jews.

      The Nazis haras-sed and brutalized the Jews throughout the 1920's during the "struggle for power." Speech after speech painted the Jews as Germany's misfortune and prophesied a time of reckoning.

      When the Nazis came to power in 1933, the Jews were their very first target. The infamous boycott against Jewish businesses took place in April 1933 and the first laws against the Jews were enacted then. Jews were progressively erased from almost every facet of German life. The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 deprived the Jews of almost every right and freedom. Then the pogrom called Kristallnacht (Night of Broken Glass) took place in 1938. Over 100 Jews were murdered and an enormous fine was levied against the Jews.

      By the outbreak of World War II, actions taken against the Jews included marking them and ghettoizing them. In 1941, the the Nazis decided to kill all the eastern European Jews by shooting them where they were found.

      The one common thread throughout this process of destruction was the Jews. The Communists were often explicitly targeted as well, but the Nazis believed that Communism was a creation of the Jews. They used an expression: "Jews and other undesirables," and the Jews were almost always the first group targeted in any initiative. There is no doubt that they were the focal point from beginning to end.

      The Germans set up an office on the "Jewish Question" under the direction of Adolf Eichmann. The name used for the ultimate killing action was "the Final Solution of the Jewish Question." Others were drawn in - with horrific results - but the key object and common thread was always the Jews.

      There are thousands of captured doc-uments dealing with the killing actions. Almost every one of them deals with the Jews and there are almost no docu-ments that deal with another target that do not also address the Jews. The Nazi reports almost always separate the Jews from the other people shot, breaking down the Jews by age and gender. One report breaks down the victims into a variety of categories (bandits, partisans, etc.), but lists the Jews as "Jews executed."

      Hitler said before the outbreak of the war that if there were another war, he would annihilate the Jews. He said during the war that he was in the process of annihilating the Jews. And he said in his Test-ament that he had done exactly what he had said he would do.

      Others were murdered in the course of the Final Solution, but the first and constant target was always the Jews. The Final Solution was intended for the Jews, was about the Jews and chiefly affected the Jews. There is no denying that, without the Jews, there is no Final Solution. To minimize or trivialize the "Jewishness" of the Final Solution is to seriously understate, if not, unintentionally perhaps, deny its essence.

      ***This does NOT mean that the suffering of other groups is to be ignored; on the contrary, it was terrible. The term "holocaust" was coined to describe the uniquely Jewish aspect of the Final Solution. It does not seek to negate the suffering of the other victims.

      Albert Speer, who worked for Hitler, wrote:

      "The hatred of the Jews was Hitler's driving force and central point, perhaps even the only element that moved him. The German people, German greatness, the Reich, all that meant nothing to him in the final an-alysis. Thus, the closing sentence of his Test-ament sought to commit us Germans to a merciless hatred of the Jews after the apocalyptic downfall. I was present in the Reichstag session of January 30, 1939 when Hitler guaranteed that, in the event of another war, the Jews, not the Germans, would be exterminated. This sentence was said with such certainty that I would never have doubted his intent of carrying through with it."

      The centrality of the Jews in the Holocaust in no way lessens the killing of others. The Gypsies, partisans, J. Witnesses, etc. were marked for extermination in the same way as the Jews were and suffered terribly.

      Tes-timony of Otto Ohlendorf at Nuremberg:

      US prosecutor J. Heath: And what was the story with the Gypsies? I believe you have no idea how many Gypsies your commando killed?

      Ohlendorf: No, I don't know. There was no difference between the Gypsies and the Jews. The same order applied to both of them.

      There have been mass murders of too many nationalities over the course of history. Not only the Jews could have benefitted from world attention to the holocaust to lessen its impact. If governments would have intervened, much could have been done to save lives. The motto now is "Never Forget." Because the world has seen that even civilized countries can act atrociously against innocent people. Why do we now sit back and not make a storm when these kind of atrocities take place in Africa and other places? Why didn't we learn the lesson?

      Now more than ever it is most important that people observe the seven basic laws that G-d gave to all mankind in order to make the world the way G-d intended it to be. Despite all that has been directed at the Jews, they are the only nationality to survive from ancient times. G-d told the seven laws to the Jews to teach the world. They are: to believe in One G-d, not to blaspheme Him, not to murder, not to steal and kidnap, not to do adultery, etc., not to eat the limb of a living animal (animal cruelty) and to set up ef-fective courts of justice. It is on our part to increase in acts of goodness and kindness to make the world a better place.

      There is a website called kindify.com. Set up by four college students, it asks people to do an act of kindness for three people, and ask those to do an kindness to three others, etc. In this way, paying it forward, the acts of kindness in the world will increase and increase, and we can do our part to make the world a better place.

      April 20, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
  2. MoN

    I did not see the holocaust occur, therefore it´s false. Period.
    Stop believe in things your cannot see!!!

    April 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • momoya

      Detectability is the important bit, not sight.. We're effectively blind, for that matter; we don't see 99% of the wavelengths that are all around us.. Even with all of our scientific tools we only see about 5% of what we know exists–and there might be more that exists that we can't detect..

      We can detect the occurrence of the Holocaust; we cannot detect unicorns, gods, leprechauns, souls, bigfoot, sin, fairies, other (spiritual) realms, etc.. If we can't detect a thing, there's no need to believe or disbelieve in it..

      April 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Carl

      I have not seen you, therefore you and your rubbish do not exist and I will cease my communication with the ether.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • momoya

      Detectability, not sight.. If you've ever conversed with 'ether' and can prove it, you are welcome to think that that is the case, now.. If you can't prove that communication with 'ether' is possible, then you're just being weird.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Navy

      What is wrong with you?

      April 20, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
  3. momoya

    Everything that happens is according to god's plan.. Nothing happens that isn't a part of his plan.. Hitler and the holocaust went exactly the way bible god wanted it to happen.. It was god's plan from before the foundation of the earth.. If you believe in the god of the bible you should be grateful the Holocaust happened exactly as god planned/ordained.. After all, if god knew that it would happen, then it couldn't have not happened.

    April 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • md2205

      1) G-d is responsible. We cannot accept the cowardly theology that G-d is not responsible - that anything that happens in the world that doesn't mesh with our idea of His goodness is just an amoral and indifferent act of nature. For who is responsible for nature if not G-d? And what type of a G-d is He if He cannot control nature?

      2) G-d is not a vicious tyrant who indiscriminately punishes the wicked with the innocent. Even in the biblical flood innocent people were spared. Which moral person could have the chutzpah to say that all those who perished in this deluge deserved it?

      3) We don't want an explanation. If we had an explanation, then we could go on with our lives as usual. We could be comfortable that there is a nice and neat justification for hundreds of thousands of deaths and the suffering of millions. That would be a further tragedy.

      4) We can be disappointed with G-d. There is a Jewish tradition of even the most righteous people objecting to G-d's decisions. Abraham tried to defend the people of Sodom although G-d wanted to destroy them, and Moses interceded for the Israelites after the episode of the golden calf, when G-d had decreed that they be wiped out. We don't have to agree with divine decrees. We have a right to be upset at G-d. Even after the event, although we accept that He is the True Judge, if we see what we feel to be an injustice, we can't be at peace with it. We must scream at G-d and demand an end to such pain.

      The Jewish response to tragedy is daring and challenging: Don't solve the paradox; let it disturb you. There is a real contradiction: a kind G-d has allowed unimaginable suffering, and this does not make sense. From the tension of facing this contradiction comes an urge to do something - that the world must change to be a place of only goodness and peace. The suffering of innocents does not fit into my worldview; thus it must end. We must do what we can to alleviate the suffering of people around us. Then we can turn to G-d and demand that He do the same.

      Don't abandon belief in G-d, and don't abandon belief in human innocence. Allow the two to create a holy tension that results in a passion for goodness - and do something about it.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • md2205

      There is an online article that goes into the topic more deeply if you wish to pursue the topic:

      http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108398/jewish/Belief-After-the-Holocaust.htm

      April 20, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • LazyBoy

      One of the hardest questions confronting Christians defending the biblical record is, "How could a good God commission Israel to destroy women and children when they're fighting their battles?"

      This has happened more than once in the Bible. It's difficult to explain the answer to this, though I think there are a couple of reflections on the issue that offer food for thought. You can approach this from a couple of different directions.

      First one caveat. I fully acknowledge that not all good answers are going to be emotionally satisfying to a lot of people. That's why this is a hard issue, because people let their emotional sensibilities rule instead of trying to see the bigger picture.

      One way to approach the problem is to show that it's a much bigger problem than first imagined. Curiously, I think this helps make the solution simpler. God's command that Israel destroy women and children in battle is really just the tip of the iceberg.

      What about when God slew the firstborn of Egypt? Many of these were women and children, some infants. Every plague on Egypt–the hail, the gnats, the frogs, the locust, the boils–fell on all Egyptians equally, not just upon the soldiers.

      What about Sodom and Gomorra in which, with the exception of Lot and his family, every man woman and child was turned to cinder? Everyone was indiscriminately destroyed. The same thing happened in the Genesis flood. Only eight in the entire world survived. It's interesting that I have never heard anyone raise the complaint "What about the women and children?" in these instances.

      When you read the book of Revelation you'll find this practice of God's is not limited to the Old Testament. In the future, God will once again visit judgment upon the world and destroy not just the soldiers, but the women and children as well. I've never heard anyone raise an objection about that, but isn't it the same problem, essentially?

      The underlying question, "Is it right for Jews to kill women and children at God's command?" can only be answered by answering another question: Can God legitimately judge and destroy the world or any portion of it or its inhabitants that He sees fit to destroy? Is this inside of God's prerogatives or outside of it?

      My answer is unequivocal: It is not evil for God to take life, because God is the Author of life. He can give it and He can take it away. That's part of the prerogative of being God. All that He creates belongs to Him. This is His world. He needs no further justification, because He is not compelled by any law higher than Himself.

      Second, our notion of the sovereignty of God entails that every detail of the world is under direct control of God. Nothing happens that He doesn't either actively cause or passively allow. God did not create the universe, wind it up, then let it spin out its course without His involvement. Instead, regarding every nation of mankind on the face of the earth He has "determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation." (Acts 17:26)

      This means that since humans are mortal, there comes a time when every life God created "shuffles off its mortal coil" and returns to Him, either for ultimate judgment or for ultimate reward. God, the Giver and Taker of life, calls every life back to Him at some point and in some manner. The timing and the method of each person's demise is somewhat incidental, from a moral perspective. It's up to Him.

      So I'm arguing first that it's God's prerogative to take life when He so chooses, and second that the means He uses to take that life is a matter of His prerogative as well. Whether it's by disease, or mishap, or hailstones, or the angel of life, or the sword of a Jewish soldier, the means is up to Him. It's His prerogative.

      My third thought has to do with the question, "What did those women and children do? They were innocent." I certainly understand the response and there is a sense in which on an emotional level I am troubled when I consider this. But there's another aspect to keep in mind.

      God deals with people not just as individuals, but as groups. When the nation of Israel is doing well as a nation, doesn't He prosper the whole nation, even though there are individuals in the nation that are scoundrels? When the nation is doing well, generally speaking, God blesses the nation and everybody prospers.

      However, the flip side is that when the nation is corrupt, then God judges the nation as a whole and everyone gets judged, even those remaining few that might be innocent. God is dealing with the nation as a group, for good and for ill. It works both ways.

      This should not be a foreign concept to us, though we probably haven't considered the connection between this biblical reality and modern day practices. When the President and Congress agree to go to war against another country, they act as federal heads of state and commit each and every American citizen to war against a foreign power. The nation is at war, not just our lawmakers.

      And we all suffer alike in the process. We surrender our effort and our taxes and even our life blood, if necessary. We all participate, even though war wasn't our idea. We acting as a unit, as a family, as a nation. And those we war against retaliate against us as a unit.

      In the same way, when I nation rebels against God, it is not uncommon for God to go to war against that nation itself and not just against a few rebellious individuals. God takes up arms against the land and against every man, woman, and child.

      Let's keep this in perspective, though. In the case of the nations in question that were utterly destroyed by God, it isn't a few citizens that imperiled the many. We know from Abraham's appeal on behalf of Sodom and Gomorra that God will spare a whole city of sinners for the sake of a handful of righteous people. Instead, there was a pattern of ongoing, thorough-going, and persistent moral rebellion against God that went on for years–in many cases, for generations–in spite of repeated warnings by God.

      There's a third thing. It pertains to the challenge, "If God were really good, how could He do such a thing? How could He destroy these innocent people? This is barbaric." They take this record of God's judgment as evidence that the God of the Bible isn't really good at all, and therefore should not be believed in.

      I approach it from a different direction. I think the preponderance of evidence from the same historical record–the Old Testament– is that God is good. He continually demonstrates not just his holiness, but also His patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, though He has graciously cared for them.

      This gives us good reason to trust Him. And if we have good reason to trust Him, then when we see things that seem to go against our sense of goodness and justice, it seems only fair to give the benefit of the doubt to God, who just might know something more than we know.

      When we were children, our own parents acted in ways we didn't understand. We didn't think their decisions were fair. Later we learned that, for the most part, they had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Many times we learned that they were acting in our best interests after all, though we didn't see it at the time.

      These are the kind of things we discover as we grow up. We learn that our parents were right most of the times we thought they were off base. The same kind of hindsight is true with God. God may know a few things we don't know.

      By the way, the question has also been raised, "Why destroy the cattle, too?" My understanding is that in many of those cultures the people were so decadent they were having intercourse with animals. This caused rampant venereal disease in animals and humans that even infected children as well. So this may be– I'm not sure, but it may be– another reason God wanted these entire cultures wiped out. Because of their moral corruption, they were physically corrupt, and this represented a health threat to the new inhabitants of the land, the children of Israel.

      Even if that wasn't the case, as the Author of life God still has the right to take life according to His own judgment. I've given you three good reasons to help make sense of that. Whether it's emotionally satisfying for you or not is another issue altogether.

      April 20, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • Caffeine Mode

      LazyBoy / Leo, since your god does not exist, all that typing was a complete waste of time. Mazel Tov!

      April 21, 2012 at 3:52 am |
    • Mode Caffeine

      Everyone wastes time in there own way...look at you.

      April 21, 2012 at 8:49 am |
  4. momoya

    How can any Christian ever be upset about what Hitler did?. Bible god is going to torture people for all eternity in a lake of fire he built and sustains.. Bible god engineered his throne room so that the smoke of the tormented in hell come before his throne in Heaven.. And everybody in heaven will have relatives and friends down there.. I guess maybe god will teach them to enjoy the smoke of their mothers and grandmothers and children and wonderful friends..

    Hitler is just a little lamb tick next to that sort of monstrosity.

    April 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
    • Kalessin

      By "upset"...you are implying an aspect of guilt. I feel no guilt for what Hitler did or for what God does. Why should I?

      April 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • momoya

      Fail. Moron.

      "Upset" as in "it's wrong.". You are "upset" that Hitler did what he did because of your sense of morality; you don't feel guilty about it..

      And no, you shouldn't feel guilty about what your god does.. Obviously you approve of never-ending torment for the vast majority of humanity.. You're just a hypocrite for saying Hitler was wrong for his actions but your god isn't wrong for his actions that make Hitlers seem like kitten kisses.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
    • Carl

      Have you no decency? There is a HUGE difference between a belief in some sort of afterlife involving either punishmnet or reward versus the ACTUAL inhumanity of the Holocaust. Callous and heartless.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • momoya

      Not really, Carl.. The folks who believe in hell believe that when perfection and perfect love and goodness arrives for them (heaven) all who did not believe as they will be in never-ending fiery torment.. So, what they consider perfect love is for me and most humans to be in a state of never-ending, unimaginable, unfathomable horror.. They approve of that sort of love and goodness.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Perfection? I don't believe that is something promised in the Bible.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • momoya

      LOL, that's the issue you picked to deal with?!? That the bible doesn't imply that heaven is perfect?!? Really? So the whole deal with your god being infinitely more evil than hitler was makes no impression on you?. I mean, ok, we get it, morality is subjective and might makes right; when god does something to horrible to conceive of in a human mind he's still being moral, and the reason he's still being moral is because he's the mightiest.. What an uplifting belief you have, there. 🙂

      April 20, 2012 at 4:45 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "So the whole deal with your god being infinitely more evil than hitler was makes no impression on you?."

      ~Restate the question plz.

      "..when god does something to horrible to conceive of in a human mind he's still being moral, and the reason he's still being moral is because he's the mightiest.. What an uplifting belief you have, there"

      ~Might has nothing to do with it. If one is infinite in wisdom...is it not logical that they would know more than a finite little you?
      You are in fallacy for trying to compare apples to lemons. You're the lemon btw.

      April 20, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • momoya

      @K

      What do you think "might" means if not "infinite wisdom.". If a being has infinite wisdom, it's infinitely mighty.. Duh.. The entire faith is based on might (infinite power/wisdom/whatever).. As the mightiest, supposedly god gets to be infinitely cruel and still be good.. That's the very definition of "might makes right.". Are you really this dense?. I might be a lemon, but you consider the greatest and best being as good when he behaves infinitely worse than Hitler.. How could I possibly be concerned how you label me?

      April 20, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • Kalessin

      You're like a dof gnawing on an old bone with no meat. You keep judging an inifinite being on what you think is morally good or bad. Don't you see how much of an error in logic that is?
      You think God's actions are wrong....that's your right. Doesn't mean you are correct though.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • momoya

      Yes, I get to judge god's morality based on two concepts..

      1. Evil is evil no matter who does it.. Raping an innocent child isn't good wether Hitler does it or god does it.. And bible god built an infinite torture chamber for the people he won't forgive or love into heaven.. It'd be disgusting if Hitler did it, so it's disgusting that bible god does it.

      2. If morality is subjective, and god does get to do evil and it somehow be good, then god should expect other beings to judge morality subjectively from their body of knowledge.. If god gets to do evil because he knows it's somehow good from a better vantage point then he knows that I'm following his exact model to judge morality from my vantage point..

      I think it's disgusting to worship a being who knew about the Holocaust and did nothing to prevent it.. All part of god's plan, eh?? Yuck!! How can you do it?

      April 20, 2012 at 6:53 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "Evil is evil no matter who does it.."

      ~Is it? We all know that the world and existence is rarely black and white. Some would call the dropping of the atomic bomb on a civilian target as evil. Some would call risking 5 more years of total war evil and dropping the bomb was good because it ended the war sooner.

      "Raping an innocent child isn't good wether Hitler does it or god does it.."

      ~Another error. Taking an extreme and applying it to those that never did such a thing.

      "And bible god built an infinite torture chamber for the people he won't forgive or love into heaven."

      ~Some might point out that hell wasn't made for humanity to begin with.

      "If morality is subjective,"

      ~You keep implying throughout all this that God is different than mankind; omnipotent..etc. But then you want to base his actions on how mankind is. That makes no logical sense. You may think God is wrong but to say that God is wrong by way of fact is an error on your part.

      "god does get to do evil and it somehow be good,"

      ~Challenge time: can you please find anywhere in the Bible that says that God did something evil but it was good since he did it. I would love to see it.

      April 20, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • momoya

      Why should it matter WHO hell was made for if god is going to send people there? I mean really, who cares?

      Holy Crap have you read the New Testament?!!? God commanded evil all the time in OT.. He commanded pure genocide to the point of killing babies and livestock.. Again, have you read the Old Testament?!?! As far as never ending torment–I don't think it would be considered "good" by anybody but christians and then only for their god.. Are you sure you're ok?. You seem pretty confused or stupid or something.....

      April 20, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "Why should it matter WHO hell was made for if god is going to send people there? I mean really, who cares?"

      ~It actually does matter with motive. Obviously God did not intend on humanity to be away from him but theri free will got them into a place they were not meant to be.

      "Holy Crap have you read the New Testament?!!? God commanded evil all the time in OT.."

      ~Commanding evil is not the same thing as being evil

      "He commanded pure genocide to the point of killing babies and livestock.. Again, have you read the Old Testament?!?!"

      ~Yep..and yes I have. You look at that act as evil. But to a being that is outside of linear time...could individual acts you deem "evil" be for the greater good?

      "As far as never ending torment–I don't think it would be considered "good" by anybody but christians"

      ~I have yet to call it good. You are making assumptions...again. It simply is what it is.

      April 20, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
  5. momoya

    Evidently Yom Ha-Shoah is a made up term.. I learned this tactic of denial from Kalessin.

    April 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Yeah..made up by experts and found it's approval through time.

      Some slightly foolish ppl think that making up their own terms like "American Holocaust" has equal footing. It's funny that they think that 😉

      April 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • momoya

      LOL!! Do a search on your computer for "American Holocaust.". I think it returns about 7 million hits..

      Guess how many for Yom Hashoah? 🙂

      April 20, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Kalessin

      I got ten million hits.
      But what's your point? Does majority rule with you?
      Actually, you are probably google ignorant and do not understand how google searches information.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • momoya

      Oh please, you liar.. You were acting like it was some term I made up on the fly.. Turns out you were talking out of your azz, doesn't it?. Snap judgments are so awesome!

      April 20, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Let's see...if I go to the online dictionary (dictionary.c o m):
      Shoah is in there.
      Holocaust is in there.
      But...American Holocaust isn't.

      Yes..you are speaking out your azz. 😉

      April 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • momoya

      Kalessin, I never thought that you would ac.cept the term as it is ac.cepted by ac.ade.m.ia and li.sted in thousands of do.cu.ments as such.. I always thought you'd be intellectually di.shonest and big.oted.. It was never a doubt in my mind.. Thank you for proving your ca.llou.sne.ss when you don't want to face facts.. Remember, you're the k.o.o.k saying that the sl.au.ghter of 50 mil is no worse than the sl.au.ghter of 6 mil.. So why in the world would I think you would face facts.. Of course you won't.. You keep proving it for me over and over.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "Remember, you're the k.o.o.k saying that the sl.au.ghter of 50 mil is no worse than the sl.au.ghter of 6 mil.."

      You Sir are a liar. I never said that. Don't go and pull an O'reilly now.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • momoya

      HERE'S YOUR OWN WORDS, LIAR:

      "Don't get me wrong....neither tragedy can be said to be worse or better than the other. They both were horrible."

      When you say "neither tragedy can be said to be worse or better," you don't acknowledge that 50 mil is worse than 6 mil

      Game. Set. Match. B1tch.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "When you say "neither tragedy can be said to be worse or better," you don't acknowledge that 50 mil is worse than 6 mil"

      ~My o my..is that cherry picking O'reily I am talking with?

      I said, "neither tragedy can be said to be worse or better than the other. They both were horrible."

      Guess what...that means I am not calling either worse or better. I usually try to avoid calling one massive amount of death worse than someone else's massive amount of death. Especially when they have very little in common when it came to the execution of those deaths. You can be presumptious if you wish. I choose not to be on this topic.

      I love it when ppl seem to claim victory when they have failed utterly.

      April 20, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
  6. Prayer changes things

    Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    April 20, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Jesus

      "Prayer changes things"

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!.!.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
  7. JP

    The holocaust didn't happen, but the ethnic cleansing of 10+ German civilians did.
    incogman.net

    April 20, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Sooooo..you don't think that systematic killing of people identified as Jewish, Roma, communists..etc didn't happen?
      Send us a postcard from La-La Land.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
    • momoya

      You think that American Natives were systematically slaughtered by god believing christians to the tune of five to ten times that of the Jews killed under Hitler.. What's your address.. I'll send you a copy of the postcard you're sending to JP.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • momoya

      Meant to say, "You don't believe that...

      April 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "You think that American Natives were systematically slaughtered by god believing christians to the tune of five to ten times that of the Jews killed under Hitler"

      I am sorry, maybe you can offer the evidence of this systematic slaughter. Maybe you could cite some Presidential Orders. Maybe some Spanish Imperial orders.
      Do you have anything that started at the highest levels of existing govts in the Americas that would support the notion of a govt led and systematic killing of Native American ppl simply because they were Native Americans? You might find some...but you will not find any for the entirety of the Americas or even just North America. But I bet you are just focusing on the USA and even there you are incorrect.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • momoya

      @K

      Nope.. That's not how this works.. You say that it's not a holocaust.. If you make that statement, I assume you've done your research.. After all, I'm not asking you for evidence Yum How Yoda.. You can do your own research or keep looking stupid.. (I'll keep you in the dark as to my preference.)

      April 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • Kalessin

      You are funny. I cannot prove a negative. You want me to prove that there wasn't something...a "American Holocaust"?

      You made the statement that there was. Based on what consitutes a govt sanctioned "holocaust", you should have no problem backing up your statements. But it seems you are having a problem.

      April 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • momoya

      Kalessin, you don't believe that the organized slaughter of 50 million is a holocaust because it wasn't as organized as another event that only slaughtered a fraction of that amount.. Your refusal to accept the label being currently used in academia rests on your assumption of how organized the killers were.. It's your definition, I'm just showing you how stupid and hypocritical it is based on the logic of YOUR statements.. LOL!!

      April 20, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "you don't believe that the organized slaughter of 50 million is a holocaust because it wasn't as organized as another event that only slaughtered a fraction of that amount.."

      ~I don't think that the term holocaust works best for the historical situation you are talking about. The "slaughter" wasn't what made the situation of the Jews a "holocaust". It was more than that.
      Don't get me wrong....neither tragedy can be said to be worse or better than the other. They both were horrible.

      "Your refusal to accept the label being currently used in academia rests on your assumption of how organized the killers were.."

      ~I am sorry to tell you this but you have no idea really what you are talking about. You def have little clue what those in academia are thinking.

      "It's your definition,"

      ~Just for fun..what was that definition again.

      April 20, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • momoya

      Kaelssin, it says more about you that you refuse to even research and co.nsider a term that is accepted term by universities and legal offices.. Have you done a go.ogle search and looked at what type of doc.uments the term is used in?. Your proud of your stupidity and your ignorance so much that you won't look into a term that returns 7 million hits with some pretty good explanations at your fingertips.. LOL!

      April 20, 2012 at 6:42 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "it says more about you that you refuse to even research and co.nsider a term that is accepted term by universities and legal offices.."

      ~Actually...what all this says is that you never attended college or learned anything from one. Even high schoolers know how to cite info. You have offered NO university or legal office that uses the term American Holocaust. You have just offered your hot air.

      "Have you done a go.ogle search and looked at what type of doc.uments the term is used in?."

      Lol...you really don't pay much attention to what google shows do you? My gosh I thought you type of ppl faded away last century. What I see when I use google is a lot of the same thing. A book that uses the phrase "American Holocaust" in the ti_tle. It's the same book on many of the pages so they are not unique.
      A great deal of the pages has to do with the event some call the Holocaust in Europe, but plz...don't pay any attention to those pages..lol.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
    • Snow

      I guess you can find the executive orders from Syrian govt to kill its citizens too right.. if they don't exist, the killings do not happen? right? great piece of

      April 20, 2012 at 6:50 pm |
    • momoya

      LOLLOLLOL!!!! Kalessin, go into any college, in any liberal arts program there, and they'll be able to give you reference after reference after reference in more papers than you can fit in your car.. But please, don't research it.. I like you better spouting your ignorance.. HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

      April 20, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Lol...actually Snow..I am sure there are doc_uments that show troop movements and the like that would support the notion of a top down organizational killing of the Syrian protesters.

      It's like the Nurmenberg trials. There was a mountain of evidence that shows a systematic govt led attempt to wipe out the Jews, Roma and many others.
      While some govts like the US did kill the Native Americans at various levels...I don't recall a systematic govt led initiive starting at the top of the Executive Branch to wipe out the Native Americans. My gosh yes they made their lives he11 in many cases but the manner that the Nazi tried to take out the Jews, Roma...etc was very different than how the Native Americans died.
      Measles, scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, influenza, whooping cough, tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria and chicken pox wiped out huge amounts of the ppl but that wasn't a coordiated effort on the Europeans. No more than the Native Americans sending syphilus to Europe.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Kalessin

      momoya- I think we are getting way off topic on certain things.
      In no way am I denying that the Native Americans were primarily wiped out by Europeans.
      The term of holocaust is usually used for situations closer to what happened to the Jews, Roma..etc. I persoanlly don't use it. If you wish to, knock yourself out. But...the phrase "American Holocaust" isn't as widely used as you might think it is. Plz don't rely on google searches to really let you know how real something is.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • Snow

      so, according to you, i guess all the native american population (all the millions of them) just decided to one day die because the christians with high morals have come and decided to take their land.. ok.. I now understand why the others are calling you so many names..

      April 20, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Snow

      and what the heck do you think they meant to do by your statement "they made their lives he11 in many cases" .. have giggles and expect no consequences? Oh gee we will not kill them outright, but we will take the moral high road and make their life hell in such a way that they die by themselves?? what is the difference?

      April 20, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "so, according to you, i guess all the native american population (all the millions of them) just decided to one day die because the christians with high morals have come and decided to take their land.."

      ~Lol..no. Don't try to make such a complex topic as the destuction of the Native Americans into something insultinly simple. It isn't. Let's be honest...not all early settlers wanted to be. You had slaves and indentured servants...you had ppl that were paid by their govt to come here.
      The vast majority of immigrants that came to the Americas had nothing to do with the destruction of the Native Americans. Unless you think those fleeing the pototo famine in the 1800's were the same as the Spaniards of the 15th/16th century.
      And I do not think those that killed the Native Americans had any high moral ground to stand on with their actions.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "and what the heck do you think they meant to do by your statement "they made their lives he11 in many cases" "

      ~Forced population distribution, taking their childen and "educating" them, not allowing them to vote, keping them on the rez....things like that.

      "but we will take the moral high road and make their life hell in such a way that they die by themselves"

      ~I don't know where you get the moral high ground stuff from. Maybe they thought that...I don't.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • Snow

      do you not call "~Forced population distribution, taking their childen and "educating" them, not allowing them to vote, keping them on the rez....things like that". systamatic? what do you call it? and what do you call the govt that does not intervene?

      There need not be executive orders for every atrocity. Not acting against an atrocity happening under its jurisdiction is as good as signing an order to support the atrocity. There is no difference between what happened to native Indians and what happened to jews in ww2. Both are holocausts.. one lasted for shorter period of time than other is the only difference

      April 20, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "do you not call "~Forced population distribution, taking their childen and "educating" them, not allowing them to vote, keping them on the rez....things like that". systamatic? what do you call it? and what do you call the govt that does not intervene?"

      ~As a whole of the time period this involves (what 500 years+)...no I don't. It was the policy of the US for a small time but the goals here are not the same as the ones for the Jews. The end result was to wipe the Jews out fully. I do not believe that has ever been the attempt of the US govt. They wanted to minimize them and render them submissive to the US govt...horible and vile. Sometimes it involved actively killing them. But the end goal of the US govt was not to exterminate the Native Americans.

      "There need not be executive orders for every atrocity. Not acting against an atrocity happening under its jurisdiction is as good as signing an order to support the atrocity."

      ~Agreed. But most long standing atrocities usually have approval from those in power eventually. One can only ignore it for so long. As far as I know...there was never an American equivelant to the Wannsee Conference.

      "There is no difference between what happened to native Indians and what happened to jews in ww2. Both are holocausts.. one lasted for shorter period of time than other is the only difference"

      ~I disgree with the term usage but otherwise...you are correct in that they were terrible, horrible, immoral and should never happen to anyone ever again.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • Snow

      not kill them, but minimize them.. ok.. two analogies come to mind when I read the first part of your response..
      1) po-taa-to, po-tae-to..
      2) if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what else can you call it?

      you can make any number of reservations for the govt, but its simply making excuses.. Sure they did not sign an order, or they did not send troops with killing mandate.. but the bottom line is they were responsible for the natives deaths..

      April 20, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "you can make any number of reservations for the govt, but its simply making excuses.. Sure they did not sign an order, or they did not send troops with killing mandate.. but the bottom line is they were responsible for the natives deaths.."

      ~I am not making excuses but stating facts. One event (Shoah) was conducted from the top of the Nazi govt down to it's base. It just wasn't so with the overall destruction of the Native Americans.
      Also...I think we are not talking about the exact same thing in a sense. I am referring to the overall "event". From the time Columbus came to the here and now. I think more of you are specifically referring to what the US did to the Native Americans.

      April 21, 2012 at 8:52 am |
  8. lhayes

    Don'tcha just love how an article on faith and hope generates all this bickering.

    April 20, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • Carl

      You are absolutely correct. Bunch of sick haters on this site when all should be celebrating the victory of life over inhumanity.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
  9. Alan

    The Holodomor 1931-32 was Stalin's forced starvation of Ukrainians.
    It resulted in 12,000,000 deaths.
    Please look this up.

    April 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • Debrap424

      2.4 – 7.5 million (scholarly estimates)
      4.5 million, 10 million (some claims)

      April 20, 2012 at 1:02 pm |
  10. sm57nyc

    A nice article but PLEASE CHECK YOUR FACTS CNN! I photographed Holocaust survivor Alex Imich a year ago in Manhattan when he was 108 years-old and I don't believe he has passed away. If you need assistance confirming his age and story please contact me. You can find my photo here: http://www.corkscrewproductions.com/stevemeyer.net_website/AlexImich.jpg

    April 20, 2012 at 10:37 am |
  11. MsMello

    Alice is beautiful. I will print and save this article as inspiration for myself when I think things are not going well in my life. What a beatiful soul! Anyone who reads this and cannot come away with a sense of awe totally missed her first lesson.

    April 20, 2012 at 7:22 am |
    • Mr Old

      So if we don't feel a sense of awe we're a bunch of haters?

      Do you have any idea how stupid and nasty that sounds?

      April 20, 2012 at 9:36 am |
    • Gianni

      This just in: Mr. Old is an imbecile.

      April 20, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
  12. md2205

    To Stan:

    America gives lots of other countries lots of money, and much more money than they give Israel. But you like to make out Israel as if they are mooching on America. America gave Israel money because it was in America's interest as Israel was the only democratic country in that region and wasn't politically aligned with Communist Russia. And nowadays, any aid given now is not on the same ratio (it is less) as other nations get where America has extreme interest. US aid increased to other countries in the region.

    The Torah begins Bereshis Bara E-lokim (In the beginning G-d created). Why? Why could it not have started with the first commandment that G-d wanted? After all, G-d created the world and all of us for a reason (for us to do what He wants) and the Torah was not meant to be a science book of how the world was formed.

    The explanation of this question is written in the Book of Psalms (chapter 111, verse 6): The answer is that G-d knew that the world would accuse the Jews of stealing the Land of Israel. He knew they would say that the Land of Israel belongs to others, and the Jew is coming to steal it from them. He therefore began the Torah so all the peoples in the world would know: In the beginning, G-d created the world. HE gave the land to other peoples, and HE took it from them and gave it to the Jews.

    Don't mess.

    By the way, there were thousands, if not millions, of Jews who were kicked out of almost every country in Europe in the last thousand years, and almost every Arab country in the last hundred years, after having all their property taken from them, and after being imprisoned and tortured. The Jews who could get to Israel never let themselves become a refugee problem because they worked together to better their lot while rebuilding their land. Why haven't the Arab countries, drowning in their oil dollars, seen fit to assist their brothers from their plight? Why? Because it would be politically unwise. Refugees make good headlines. Squalid refugee camps are exploited to make bad guys out of the Jews. Israel did not drive out the Palestinians. They left by themselves in 1948 when the Arab countries surrounding Israel told them to leave so they could invade and drive the Jews into the sea. They told them they would come home great victors; that Israel's destruction wouldn't take long; that they could take the spoils. The Arab countries turned their own people into refugees.

    April 20, 2012 at 2:17 am |
  13. HITLER WAS A CHRISTIAN

    CASE CLOSED!

    April 20, 2012 at 1:36 am |
    • just sayin

      Yes Hitler was an atheist. God bless

      April 20, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • momoya

      He professed that he was a christian and he professed to believe in his heart.. Why doubt the word of a person who claims to be Christian?. Do you have a method to tell who is a christian and who is lying about being a christian? No, you don't.. So you've got to accept people as christian who say they are–it's your only choice unless you've got a method to tell you who is and isn't saved.

      April 20, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Kalessin

      Who cares what religion Hitler was or wasn't. The only point that can be gleaned from it would be a juvenile attempt of guilt by association.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
    • momoya

      Because if Hitler was a christian it goes to show how useless christianity is at stopping somebody from being a desp.icable tyrant.. That's not guilt by a.ssociation, that's proof of christianity's impotence.. If it can't stop Hitler, what good is it?

      April 20, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • Kalessin

      See...guilt by association.
      Hitler was bad.
      Hitler was Christian.
      Therefor..Christianity is bad.
      Of course that line of thinking is horribly flawed.

      Hitler's religious background is not cut and dry. No politician's religious background is very cut and dry.
      Besides, professing one as a Christian doesn't make them good. No more than professing a person is a teacher makes them wise.
      I don't know of anyplace in the NT where it says that being a follower of Christ makes you blamelessly good. Probably because it doesn't.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • momoya

      @K

      You must not be able to comprehend what you read.. It's not guilt by association, it's proof of christianity's impotence.. If christianity can't keep a person from doing the evil acts that Hitler and early americans did to the Indians, what's it good for?.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "it's proof of christianity's impotence.. If christianity can't keep a person from doing the evil acts that Hitler and early americans did to the Indians, what's it good for?."

      Lol..Christianity never has made the claim that people cannot do evil. If a person does not live by the faith...it is not the fault of the faith but that of the person.

      In our nation we have just and fair laws overall right? But does that mean the law failed when ppl choose not to behave in a just and fair manner? Of course not..the fault lies with those that reject the law (or religious teachings) and perform evil.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • momoya

      LOL, actually, that's exactly what Christianity claims to do.. You know christians by their love and acts for widows and orphans and all that ja.z.z.. People are supposed to be "lost" and unable to be righteous without Christ's in.dwelling and the power of the Holy Spirit in the person's life.. Hitler wasn't a christian because nobody is a christian since there is no big sp.ook to come live in your blood pu.mper.. He said that he was, though, and since there is no way to determine who is a christian and who is just lying about being a christian, then we must give him the benefit of the doubt..

      April 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • Kalessin

      No it doesn't.
      You even mentioned something...you mentioned "acts". So..did Hitler act like a follower of Christ and his teachings?
      Ah...but it seems you go by a person's words instead of actions. That is your cross to bear.

      April 20, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • momoya

      Red herring, huh? To bad you don't have actual, logical reasons so you have to dodge the issue!. Nice.

      You christians have no way to know who is really a christian and who isn't, so YOU have to accept the words of those who claim to be what you cannot disprove but believe by the same reasoning (your own).. YOU have to accept Hitler as a christian.. It's not my problem since there is no holy spirit to do any indwelling in anybody.. Besides, who are you to say that he didn't convert on his death bed.. I wonder how much Hitler would get off on spending time in god's throne room huffing the smoke of the tormented piped all the way up from hell by god's design?

      April 20, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "To bad you don't have actual, logical reasons so you have to dodge the issue!. Nice."

      ~You are the one that mentioned acts first. Sorry that came back and bite you in the butt.

      "You christians have no way to know who is really a christian and who isn't,"

      ~I never claimed to know one way or the other. But you mentioned acts as if that was a litmus test. I asked you if his acts were those of a Christian. You ran away from the question..coward.

      "YOU have to accept Hitler as a christian.."

      ~Lol...no I don't. I don't have to accept anyone as anything. Silly boy. Your canned debate strategies aren't going to work today.

      "It's not my problem since there is no holy spirit to do any indwelling in anybody.."

      ~You seem very wrapped up in the topic for some reason.

      "Besides, who are you to say that he didn't convert on his death bed.."

      ~I never said he did or didn't. Maybe the voices in your head implied something and you got it confused again with reality.

      April 20, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • momoya

      You moron.. Nobody can ever know if anyone is a christian.. There is NO test.. Thus, you have to accept as a christian anybody who claims to be one.. That's how christians want it to work; you can't have it both ways..

      No, you don't have to accept that he was a christian, just like I don't have to accept that you're a decent intelligent person.. You're basing your opinion on the facts before you and so am I.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • Kalessin

      "Nobody can ever know if anyone is a christian.. There is NO test.."

      Yet..you also said, "You know christians by their love and acts for widows and orphans and all that ja.z.z.."

      Hmm...guess you are either a liar or very very forgetful.

      "you have to accept as a christian anybody who claims to be one.. That's how christians want it to work; you can't have it both ways.."

      ~That's a funny thing about personal belief...I don't have to follow what you think Christian should think on such things. If you knew your scripture properly..it does imply that a person is known by their fruits (acts of faith). It also says in the Pauline Letters to observe the brethern and help those that seem to be backslidng. Obviously...it's ok to question a Christian's faithand how much they are on the right track.

      April 20, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • momoya

      Way to completely take my words of context, fvckwad!

      April 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Sorry you don't care for your own words. Think before you write next time 😉

      April 20, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • momoya

      Oh I DO stand behind MY words; I do NOT stand behind a quotation used out of context in order to make it look like I said something I didn't say.. That's your sh!tty tactic.. You LiIED by misrepresenting and quoting out of context.. You know full well what you did.. You're proud of it.. Fine.. LIE and lie again.. You're very good at it.

      April 20, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Kalessin

      If you feel you have been misrepresentive...there is a little thing called clarification.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
  14. Faithful

    Jesus Christ is the only hope for this fallen world. One lesson from the Holocaust, man is at his core evil. But according to John 3:16, God provided hope.
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."
    – John 3:16

    April 19, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • Quick

      The Nazis killed the Jews because Jews were, are, and have almost always been hated by the Catholic Church and by Lutherans. Martin Luther himself penned one of the most anti-Jewish pamphlets known to man. Hitler loved that stuff.
      Any anti-Jewish sentiment in Germany was based solely on Christian Biblical values as taught by the RCC and Lutheran Brotherhood.
      Christians killed the Jews. The Holocaust was a Catholic and Lutheran pogrom of epic proportions.
      That's why Mel Gibson hates Jews. He's a good Catholic who doesn't like the new RCC but prefers the old one.
      Jews don't talk about that part of the Holocaust for many good reasons. They have their lies, too.
      Nazis hate Jews, but no one really likes to talk about why. They only want to wring their hands at the horrible Holocaust.
      Jews committed genocide in Biblical times. Where are their survivor stories? None survived to tell the tale or their accounts were destroyed or lost or ignored until we have no victim accounts of those bad Jews wiping out whole peoples.

      Nobody gets a free pass. Christians do not read their bibles to find truth or examine accounts, they read the bible to cherry-pick something that will make them feel better or give them a random inspiration or to use as a basis for doing what they were going to do anyway.

      Religion is a madness upon the face of the world. Until it is gone these things will continue.

      April 20, 2012 at 12:07 am |
    • I Was Born Hard

      What does scripture have to do with this article? Your god doesn't exist.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • md2205

      There have always been peoples in the world who kill Jews. They do it with no provocation whatsoever, and it has been that way in every generation. But they don't like to think of themselves as mere murderers: There must be a reason they act that way. Ah, it is that the Jews killed people, or the Jews killed their god (which by the way, the pope said is not true in 1965). The Jews are taking away my land, or they are fighting back after being attacked... Not only do they kill the Jews, they become hypocritical and turn events around so as to rationalize what they are doing. It is the Jew's fault – he did something wrong. So I kill him.

      You make a general statement that Jews committed genocide and wiped out entire peoples as a fact without giving any proof. Now before you go accusing the Jews of genocide, you have to understand that the Bible was written in a time where the mindset and mentality of the day was that any conquering nation would kill the nation they conquer, down to the last person, even children. And there were many conquering nations in the those days who conquered without any provocation.

      If the Jews were attacked, they fought back but unlike the other peoples around them, didn't ever kill the entire nation who attacked them. The conquering nation did not get the full retribution that they would have given to any peoples they conquered. It is not possible to view what it says in the Bible without knowing the context of the different nationalities' behavior during war in those times. We can't apply our mindset, which would not act that way, to times 3,000 years ago when the mindset and behaviors were so different.

      (It is the Jews who started the idea that entire nations should not be wiped after being conquered. They did a good job teaching that to the world, as you can see that nowadays, America is condemning the conduct of the soldiers's conduct in Afghanistan.)

      In this post, you tried to show that the Jews weren't any better than the other peoples around them in Biblical times and even tried to suggest that somehow Jews have their own lies, although I don't see your point there, as if to justify why other people are always killing Jews. This is another statement you make without any proof.

      You and others like you reference the Bible when it suits you – to try to show how bad the Jews were and are. But then they say the Bible isn't really true, and Moses didn't really exist, and the Jews never really got the Torah from G-d (even though it says 24 times that G-d gave the Torah to Moses in front of the entire Jewish people [3 million people] experiencing it, which is verifiable. Not one born Jew came later and said he wasn't there, and not one Jew argued with Moses that G-d didn't give them the Torah.) Why do they say the Torah isn't true and the Jews never came out of Egypt? Because they don't want the Jews to have the Land of Israel. Not only do they want to kill the Jew, and justify it by saying the Jew is the same as they are (some justification!) they want to steal their land also, by saying the Jew is stealing the land away from others.

      If you want to try to show that the Jews were bad because it says so in the Bible, then you have to be intellectually honest and accept what it says in the rest of the Bible as well, that G-d gave the Torah to them, and that they are G-d's chosen people, chosen to teach the world what G-d wants of them (and they did a pretty good job, and you don't realize it because you are not aware of how barbaric and immoral the people were who lived in those days), that G-d gave Abraham the Land of Israel and that is belongs to the Jews, then and now.

      April 20, 2012 at 1:41 am |
    • Faithful

      I am not saying that it is right to kill Jews just because they are Jews. That is wrong and against the Bible. What I am saying is that the total event of the Holocaust as well as the surrounding events of WWII show that at man's core is only sin. This proves that man is fallen completely. It is tragic what happened to the Jews during this time. But when I look at God's Word, the Bible, I see the truth that points to a hope and a peace that surpasses all understanding. And it is only found in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ rescues us from our sin. Yes, the Holocaust was very tragic more tragic than any Shakespeare play combined. When I look at that event, I see lost people with no hope. And Jesus Christ can provide that hope.
      "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."
      ~ John 3:16

      April 20, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • Mr Old

      md2205, it's just amazing how racist you are. Good grief! Did you even read what you wrote?
      You seriously think your tribal ancestry makes you, a latter-day mongrel descended from mongrels, a superior race above all others.
      That, whoever you are, is racist. And I notice you couldn't deny the truth that Jews committed genocide. All you do is say that the culture was different back then as if that somehow nullified the fact.

      You are like any Nazi. You think your race is supreme. It's all right there in your post. Racist.

      April 20, 2012 at 9:33 am |
    • Faithful

      Mr. Old,
      Could we please be gracious in our responses please? It does not get anyone anywhere by name-calling. So can we please be more gracious? Thanks 🙂

      April 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • md2205

      To Mr. Old,
      Please read what I wrote again. I wrote: If the Jews were attacked, they fought back but unlike the other peoples around them, didn't ever kill the entire nation who attacked them. The conquering nation did not get the full retribution that they would have given to any peoples they conquered...

      It is the Jews who started the idea that entire nations should not be wiped after being conquered.

      That is what I wrote. The person who accused the Jews of committing genocide was incorrect in his accusation because in fact the Jews never did that. That is the gist of what I wrote. There is no statement in the Torah that can be used to show that the Jews ever committed genocide. What he said is just a provocative lie.

      Contrary to popular belief, there is no racism in claiming to be the Chosen People. G-d gave different commandments to Jews and non-Jews according to His expectation of what He wants them to do in the world. All people have Seven Basic Laws to follow: To believe in one united G-d, not to blaspheme Him, not to steal (and kidnap), not to murder, not to do adultery, not to eat the limb of a living animal (animal cruelty) and to set up courts of justice that are effective. Jews have 606 more commandments to do. The reason is due to the nature of the relationship between G-d and the Jews. G-d chose the Jewish people to create a society that would focus on improving the world to the point where the Messiah would come. This would make the world return to the way G-d created it before Adam and Eve made their mistake. Their mistake was to think they knew better than G-d. G-d told them to stay away from the fruit of the tree that would make them internalize evil. If they had pushed away their desire to do what G-d didn't want, they would have merited to have the days of the Messiah come immediately, and this is what G-d wanted of them. Their rationale was that if they would eat from that fruit, it would make evil part of themselves, and every action they would do after that would be an act of pushing away the evil, time and time again, which would be a greater accomplishment than before because the evil they would be pushing away would be from inside themselves, making doing what G-d wants more difficult. But the reward they would get for it would be greater, according to the difficulty. The Jewish people were chosen to bring the world back to that original state. We are almost there, as it is hard to recall when the days were that people all over the world were cannibals, would murder each other, steal, etc. and do so without a government to stop them. The Jews did teach the world all the laws of civilization and we have reached this point.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • Real Deal

      md2205 – "...the days were that people all over the world were cannibals, would murder each other, steal, etc."

      There have also been many cultures and societies all over the world where these destructive behaviors were overcome - without your G_d. Unfortunately many of them were destroyed by the warrior types, however. Your culture has had some positive effects in civilizing sav.ages, but it is not the ONLY way.

      April 20, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • md2205

      To real deal:

      That is an interesting point and I would to know which culture(s) you are referring to.

      April 20, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
  15. Iqbal Khan

    http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=40

    April 19, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
  16. just sayin

    Ignorant, insulting troll leaves Tom, Tom shows up, another amazing coincidence. God bless

    April 19, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Navy

      If this is the real just sayin.......

      God bless! Keep being positive, I always enjoy your posts

      April 19, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • just sayin

      10-4 . 100 % original. God bless

      April 19, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nice try, lame brain. I got home from work about 15 minutes before I posted to you. Go ahead, liar, pretend you have a clue and a pair.

      April 19, 2012 at 8:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You really are pitiful, justlyin. What a sad, empty life Jesus has led you to lead.

      April 19, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      100% stupid you mean, just lyin'.

      April 19, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • just sayin

      Tom,Tom back from another unsuccessful days work on the suicide prevention hotline. God bless

      April 19, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • Yentil

      So just sayin, you think it is trolling when someone changes their name here? Very interesting coming from you.

      April 20, 2012 at 2:25 am |
    • just sayin

      @Yentil
      Stolen identi ties are not name changes, try commenting on what is being referenced instead of your personal prejudices and unproven conspiracy theories. When was the last time you saw Elvis? God bless

      April 20, 2012 at 7:57 am |
    • Mr Old

      What a slimy little troll.

      April 20, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Now, now, that's an insult to slime, Mr Old.

      April 20, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
  17. David Longoso

    God didn't give them the land the US Military did after WW2

    April 19, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • just sayin

      You may want to research your facts a little. Palestine wasn't under American control. God bless

      April 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Yeah..the UK might argue with you.

      April 19, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
  18. JeanneLH

    You don't know how I needed these words today....

    April 19, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    April 19, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!.!~!

      April 19, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
  20. Stan

    8. Make sure to milk the tragedy for as much money as possible creating an Industry based off portraying yourself as an eternal victim who is always under attack. If your real good at this might be able steal an entire country (Israel) and even ethnically cleanse it of it's native population all while still looking like a victim in the process and getting billions of dollars in military and economic aid..

    April 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • just sayin

      Somebody is Muslim or White Power Person

      April 19, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • Stan

      Someone is a realist or just rational

      April 19, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Kalessin

      Oh oh...we got a repeater poster here.

      April 19, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • wpqr99

      It's really a shame that the first comment on this would be some pathetic anti-Semitic creep like you. And you don't seem to have a problem living in a country that your ancestors stole from its native inhabitants who were subjected to far worse than "ethnic cleansing".

      April 19, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • just sayin

      lol

      April 19, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • MJ

      Amazingly hateful and ignorant. You are one troubled individual.

      April 19, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • just sayin

      God says if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways then I (God) will hear from heaven and heal their land. After 2000 years of oppression and genocide God restored the land of Israel to the Jewish people. The land is theirs, God gave the land to them.They will never again be moved. God bless

      April 19, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • Navy

      Stan

      You are a sick waste of life

      April 19, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Mr Old

      Sounds like racists don't like Stan. Good. That means Stan is okay.

      April 20, 2012 at 9:39 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.