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April 30th, 2012
12:24 PM ET

Columnist Dan Savage stands by comments on 'bulls**t in the Bible'

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - Columnist and gay-rights advocate Dan Savage is standing by his comment that “we can learn to ignore the bulls**t in the Bible about gay people” at a recent conference for high school students, a line that prompted some to walk out and spurred intense online debate.

In a blog post on Sunday, Savage wrote that his remark at a conference for the Journalism Education Association and the National Scholastic Press Association was "being spun as an attack on Christianity. Which is bullshhh… which is untrue.”

“I was not attacking the faith in which I was raised," Savage wrote. "I was attacking the argument that gay people must be discriminated against — and anti-bullying programs that address anti-gay bullying should be blocked (or exceptions should be made for bullying 'motivated by faith') — because it says right there in the Bible that being gay is wrong.”

Some Christian students walked out of the Seattle speech, prompting another controversial line from Savage: “It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansya**ed people react when you push back.”

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Savage apologized for that specific remark in Sunday’s blog post, writing that his word choice “was insulting, it was name-calling, and it was wrong.”

One of the teachers attending the speech with his students told CNN’s Carol Costello on Monday that he was taken aback by the speech and that he supported the decision of some of his students to walk out of it.

“It took a real dark, hostile turn, certainly, as I saw it,” said Rick Tuttle, a teacher at Sutter Union High School in Southern California. “It became very hostile toward Christianity, to the point that many students did walk out, including some of my students.”

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“They felt that they were attacked … a very pointed, direct attack on one particular group of students. It’s amazing that we go to an anti-bullying speech and one group of students is picked on in particular, with harsh, profane language.”

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- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Charity • Christianity • Homosexuality • Israel • Schools • TV-CNN Newsroom

soundoff (4,113 Responses)
  1. Ed S

    Funny, he should Love Christianity since it teaches one to turn the other cheek....but seriously folks... How Freakin' Boring.... zzzzzz... wow a gay guy who hates Christianity....wooo that is NEWS! Not.

    Try saying the same about the Q'uran and see where that gets you Danny boy.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • danielwalldammit

      Today's Fallacy of suppressed evidence will be accompanied by a plate of red herring.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
  2. Save Us Jeebus!

    Give 'em hell, Dan!!

    April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
  3. Mike Allen

    If half the people here posting, including the one who said that the Bible is full of contradictions about the nature of God, actually READ the Bible before commenting, they might learn something true instead of wallowing in their ignorance of Christianity.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • mork

      Read a book written by uneducated ignorant men of the past? Whatever. Greeks wrote about mythical creatures long before the bible came along, do you believe that too?

      April 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      We have read the buybull and those contradictions you speak of are not disputable, every last one comes from the buybull. Maybe if you read the buybull yourself, you'd realize this and stop being ignorant.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Todd

      "ignorant men of the past" ha ha. We've become so smart today! Yeah us. Wonder what they'll think of our mass murdering 20th century 100 years from now when we aren't as "ignorant" as we are today.

      You atheists make me laugh. We'll have to keep a few of you useful idiots around at the end just for kicks.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • John H

      note that Todd likes to say "our" mass murdering. So, hey Todd, do you condone mass murdering, or did you simply take part in it, because most of us did neither. I love how people pull a tangent off base comment thats completely irrelivant to make a point that just makes their argument worse. lol.

      April 30, 2012 at 5:04 pm |
  4. Rachael A.

    Oh for Heaven's sake...he's just an atheist who doesn't believe a word in the Bible. What else can we expect?

    April 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm |
    • mork

      only ignorant fools beleive in a book written by ancient men with no science.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • Marie Rench

      Because he was speaking at a public school and getting paid for it.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Otto

      Mork, there would be NO science without Christianity. The Scientific Method itself was developed by Roger Bacon. Others called him Fr. Roger Bacon. You may want to actually open up a history book some day.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • Save Us Jeebus!

      @Otto - Just because a scientist or inventor is a Christian (or a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Jew or an atheist) doesn't mean it was his/her belief system which caused a discovery or a method. Many scientific discoveries were made independently in different parts of the world – can all those people be beholden to Christianity for their work? What about scientific advancements which pre-date Christianity? Think about what you write before you write it.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Luch

      hey otto...open a history book...they don't want to know what history is...they have completely abandoned historical traditional values and satndards..to OUR great perill...what is the saying "those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat the mistakes"...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:49 pm |
    • WASP

      @otto: openned history book guess what i found? chirstians and their predecessors in an attempt to conquer the world exterminated billions throughout history. i also found that religion has and continues to block science discovery when it doesn't mesh with their ideas of how the world should work. i discovered in our history books that religion is fond of trying to use ignorance of a population and out right lying to people to get their agenda across. i also found that most hate groups in this country are christians..........so yeah those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. the question is whom is causing the repeat of history's dark ages?

      April 30, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
  5. george in texas

    christians can dish it but can't take it.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • HB

      We can take it brother.. peace and love to you... It's about Faith.. you either have it or you don't.. you don't have it.. Dan doesn't have it.. I do 🙂 and we will all see once we die.. burden of proof is on you to prove there is no God..not on me.. my faith proves it.. 🙂 peace and love again!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
  6. Mike

    OK this is the first I've ever heard of this guy. I guess that shows how popular he really is.
    Nothing more needs to be said.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • mork

      Oh you havent heard of him so that makes him un popular. Ever heard og Kerry King? no? Because he packs arenas world wide, but yet you probably havent heard of him. Just an example. Get off your highhorse.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Mike,
      This is the first I've ever heard of you.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
  7. mork

    haha this is funny because its true that GOD hates Christians, Muslims and the rest of the wacko's.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  8. be quiet

    "It’s amazing that we go to an anti-bullying speech and one group of students is picked on in particular, with harsh, profane language"

    Harsh, profane language? I wonder if that was the thought going through Matthew Shepard's mind when he was chained to a fence and repeatedly beaten until he was dead.

    Christians, GROW UP!!!

    April 30, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Save Us Jeebus!

      I agree with the spirit of your comment, but be careful not to lump Christians (or at least ALL Christians) in with the monsters who murdered Andrew Shepard. I think even Andrew would oppose that.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • Save Us Jeebus!

      Whoops! That should be Matthew, obviously. (Where did I get Andrew?)

      April 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Luch

      what an absolutely stupid comment...name one real Christian who favored such a heinous act...you are so off base its mind bogling...be quiet

      April 30, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • be quiet

      @Luch I'm sorry that you missed the overall statement I was trying to make. I'm a Christian man, but I'm also a gay man. I don't mean to lump everyone into one category, but rather point out how ridiculous it is to get offended by some words.

      April 30, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
  9. Harlon Katz

    Well, I don't find it hard to believe that DS sees no problem with his behavior – most bullies do not. His attack on the children that no longer wanted to listen to his hate-filled rhetoric is really inexcusable.

    This type of behavior is WRONG no matter which way it goes.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      You idiot, he did not attack the kids! He was making a point. The buybull teaches hate through and through!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Jim

      He was in no way attacking those kids or anyone. The fact that they walked out is absurd and it just shows how brainless they were that they could not see what point he was trying to make. Or they're just willfully ignorant. Either way, I'm sure they weren't missed.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • Save Us Jeebus!

      @Harlon ....And DS apologized for his comments.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
  10. palintwit

    1969 brought us Woodstock. 2012 is bringing us Baggerstock, a gathering of the faithful birthers and baggers, evangelicals, KKK and other assorted miscreant republican losers and trailer trash. Mike Huckabee will be playing his guitar. Sarah Palin will play her mouth organ. Stay tuned for location and ticket information !!!

    April 30, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • Jim

      hahahaha so true!!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • John_M_B

      Man, that much hatred all bundled up in one flower child. I guess you are looking forward to the next OWS barbeque.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • Jon

      This is brought to you by another member of the party of tolerance and diversity

      April 30, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • sifi

      Your kind are meeting tomorrow to incite chaos.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
  11. bbrooker88

    The Bible is a beautiful work of historical fiction. Nothing more.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • Kenny Sands

      You will burn in hell.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • UncleM

      It's a nasty work of historical fiction.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Rex Lex

      Prove it.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • laughnow27513

      Boastful words for one not facing death. God is love and judgement. God hates sin and will judge the sinner who dies in their sins, FOREVER. This is what the Bible teaches, in fact Jesus said those exact words. The problem with gay folks is they plain and simple hate God, hate the Bible that calls out their sin so clearly, and really hate being told they are sinners because of the evil they commit. So this book you call fiction will be your judge after death. Ignore at your eternal peril.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Jim

      It is the source of so many of our problems

      April 30, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • mork

      personally I prefer to read the stores that came BEFORE the bible, like the ones about Medusa, Hydra, Sirens, Chimera, Minotaurs etc.. far more exciting.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • jdogg8945

      In 2000 years people will be worshiping Harry Potter and going to church at Hogworts outposts.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Ken

      I can't prove you wrong but lets just say – What if you are?

      April 30, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • tomnikoly

      "The problem with gay folks is they plain and simple hate God, hate the Bible"

      Think about your statement carefully. Not all "gay folks" hate the bible. Many are actually quite reverent in their theistic faith. You are saying in essence that all "gay folks" are non-believers. That's rubbish.

      April 30, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Mercatone

      Your article is so easy to read yet rtineas a elegance. And thinking about the choices with personalization you have allowed, I know it may attract a lot of readers and writers. Its very good that you'd want to let the folks, to learn from for your weblog. Keep these articles coming!

      May 19, 2012 at 6:13 am |
  12. jefe

    every time someone complains about something on the airways, we always hear, "You can change the channel; nobody's making you watch/listen." Getting up and leaving is no different than changing the channel. Kudos to those who walked for exercising their right to free listening...

    April 30, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • Jim

      The right of free listening?? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • Docjoe

      Best comment out of thousands. Thanks, dude.

      April 30, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
  13. WASP

    don't like the truth, deal with it. i was raised southern baptist, but when i converted to paganism i was assaulted physically and verbally by my schoolmates. they taughted me as being a devil worshipper or made threats of burning in hell to attempt to coerse my silence and observance of their beliefs. it's true whether you're atheists or any other way of than christian they will attack you and expect you to take it; but if you fight back they start crying "you're attacking my beliefs, wahhhhhh that's wrong." eat me don't like it don't start the fight to begin with.

    April 30, 2012 at 4:17 pm |
    • Rich

      Reject religion, fine. But reject religion and become a pagan?? Who becomes a pagan? D&D playing dorks and granola wackadoos. Why not just accept that you are picked on because you are a wackadoo instead of hiding behind the ridiculous notion that it's anti-paganism? It's like a kid getting picked on for taking tap dancing lessons claiming he is persecuted because of an anti-tap sentiment in society.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      My daughter is pagan (like her father) and was told by a Fundie friend of hers that if she is not christian she is of the devil. I can see how you'd be belittled for coming out pagan. Paganism is what started me on the path to Atheism...everything christian started to fall apart at that point.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Wasp

      Todays' common christians are emotion seekers! Most of their younger flocks just what to persecute others whenever they find reason to do so! The same can be said of otherly parts of mankind's tribulations of all generations' folds!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • Powers Boothe

      You are a devil worshiper...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

      April 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • TedB

      Paganism? Seriously? Buddy, your Dad is sorry, and he loves you...get over it.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

      The abolishment is clear and in flesh are we admonished and made cleanliness,,,

      April 30, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Jim

      So you're a pagan but your screen name is WASP? What wonderful irony...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • WASP

      @ jim: i'm atheist. my screen name is in honor of a wonderful arthur that made a character i truly admired for her mind. i went from southern baptist to pagan tryingt o find my place in this world. as time progressed i viewed all faiths from a logical stand point and figured out they all failed to ensure humans were equal. to me science gets it correct. we are all animals.
      @boothe: you're the type of person that i avoid due to complete lack of consideration for others points of view. you judge me, god judges you........something to think about.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
  14. Ting

    So what do you think the parents of these kids are saying to them tonight? "You did the right thing. Don't listen to that mean man. The Bible is a good book and you have every right to hate gays."

    April 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Ehhh

      I'd guess probably not since Christianity doesn't teach to hate anyone. That's what the atheists like to believe it teaches since it helps them rationalize why they don't believe in Christ.

      The reality of the situation is quite different. It is fun however to oversimplify and accuse others of being hateful to help further your own agenda though, congrats!

      April 30, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • Ting

      Thanks. You guys have been pushing this agenda for years.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • Nonimus

      "It is fun however to oversimplify and accuse others of being hateful to help further your own agenda though, congrats!"

      If you say so...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • momoya

      I don't think that christianity always teaches hate, and I would guess that most christians don't.. The issue is that you CAN use the bible to teach hate, and it has been used that way in the past and there are still remnants of that style of teaching..

      Christianity does teach about a god who commands people to love and forgive, but then he turns around and eternally tortures.. It's a pretty sick and twisted religion in what it contends are the final outcomes, at least.. Overall, the bible's problem is that it is sooooo inconsistent and puts forth contrasting views of god and differing natures.. The god it portrays is just too fragmented to deserve either belief or non belief..

      April 30, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • ThatOneDude

      @Ehhh,
      I've been both a Christian and an atheist, and I'm going to call you a damned liar right now, on every count.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • Question

      What do this have to do with him being gay?

      April 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • Ting

      The Bible is full of scripture that Christians have ignored for centuries. This is one issue that they continue to fight and the reason simply comes down to prejudice and hate.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • tomnikoly

      "I'd guess probably not since Christianity doesn't teach to hate anyone."

      Possibly not....but many Christians do. And you can add intolerance, bigotry, extremism and xenophobia to the list.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Ehhh

      @momoya

      You can use almost anything to teach hate. If that's the reason you despise Christianity then you have a very weak argument. If people want to hate then they'll find something to use to further that hate, that's human nature. I could use a banana peel if I wanted to to prove that some sort of hate is justified. You looking at that and then determining that it's the banana peel's fault is ridiculous. Please learn to think critically and put bias aside.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
    • Ehhh

      @tomni

      And you can also add atheism, Islam, Budhhism, Rastfarianism, etc to that list, so what's your point? Look at what it teaches not what self centered people who twist things for their own agenda teach. That shows great intellectual immaturity when you go down that path.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • Really?

      I could use a banana peel if I wanted to to prove that some sort of hate is justified

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4&w=640&h=360]

      April 30, 2012 at 4:39 pm |
    • Ehhh

      @really

      Ha that's funny, I had no idea that video was out there. Regardless my statement is still true, you can use anything to justify hate.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • Rynomite

      @Ehhh –

      "I'd guess probably not since Christianity doesn't teach to hate anyone."

      Well I happen to attend my fundie wifes church with her on a regular basis. I sadly promised I would go with her, and I keep my promises. I have to say the minister tries to sneak into every single sermon some line or two demonizing gays and non-believers. It's subtle hate speech, but it's hate speech nonetheless.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
  15. Paul Willson

    I heard the clip on CNN It is offensive the language disgusting and YES it did attack the Bible, and by impliclation
    an attack on Christians and others of faith that take positions that are prinicipaled ,

    April 30, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Ting

      "prinicipaled"

      Principled in hate and prejudice.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • momoya

      And that's pretty much what sl.ave owners told Abolitionists when they wanted all the black sl.aves to be let free.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • GodPot

      "Christians and others of faith that take positions that are prinicipaled "

      "prin·ci·pled/ˈprinsəpəld/Adjective: (of a person or their behavior) Acting in accordance with morality and showing recognition of right and wrong.

      How often do you hear a non-believer claim we do not need morality? When do we claim there should be no measure of right & wrong? How many do you know who think r a p e or murder or theft is okay?

      We have no problem with morality or principles, we just have a problem with Christians and others of faith hijacking morality and claiming you cannot be moral without their God. If this were so then there would be a clear distinction between the moral and amoral and you would likely see far larger numbers of non-believers in our prison systems. To bad it seems the exact opposite is true...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      Did he hurt your feelings by speaking the truth? The only way to prevent the buybull from being taught as truth and constantly shoved down the throats of people is to point out the fallacies and contradictions within it.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • Tom

      It was meant to be offensive. And I'm glad it was. Your book is BS. And so is your "faith."

      April 30, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • drloko

      Tom, you are the poster child of tolerance. Hypocrite much?

      April 30, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • TR

      @Godpot
      The problem with your approach is that there is no listed universal moral code. You have codes associated with faiths, professions (Hippocratic oath), cultures (honor codes), etc. So when you take the atheist approach, it becomes debatable as to what should and should not be included. Many progressive atheists will tell you condemning a GUILTY rapist to death is immoral yet we now have progressive medical ethicists saying it is completely moral to kill an INNOCENT baby outside the womb at the mother's discretion if she doesn't feel like she wants the baby and it's a burden to her.

      With the atheist approach, you pick and choose morals you feel are advantageous and discard the disadvantageous. At least other moral codes are based on something beyond you, something you are subservient to and something you can't pick and choose from.

      What's funny is the progressives who feel they are so intellectual being lead around by fake issues while real issues are completely ignored. They want to cry that christians will bring back slavery which no christian is advocating while they embrace Muslims some of whom still actively practice it.

      They will jump through hoops to save a convicted murderer, Mumia Abu Jamal, from the death penalty then get all melodramatic that a woman who has put herself in a position to get pregnant may have to let an innocent, healthy child live.

      But we see where progressives get their values. Their ideological master is the current President who thinks that should his daughters get themselves pregnant, they should not "be punished with a baby."

      Contrast this with the ultimate rule of the Bible, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Sadly, the definition of love has been so abused that now it means killing babies, embracing unnatural lifestyles (study the physiological function of organs if you are confused by this), and being completely undiscerning of the obvious.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • Rodboy

      Yeh Momya, the guy that got the first anti-slavery lasw passed , happend to be a white male Christian, funny no?

      April 30, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's PRINCIPLED, you moron. You idiots don't know squat about principles. You don't like it when you're treated to the same kind of sh!t you've dished out, do you?

      Cry me a river. I love seeing you all get lathered up over this. It's hilarious.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Patrick

      He actually just repeated what's said in the bible and said it was BS. If it wasn't you'd be explaining right now why it isn't BS. That's pretty telling.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • smashicus

      Tom, what you and your boyfreind do in your bedroom doesn't bother me. Just leave our children alone. They have enough problems without hearing you try to justify your deathstyle.

      April 30, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Nemoque

      The greatest critics against atheistic morality are atheists, such as Jean Paul Sartre and Nietzsche. Atheists trying to live with a Christian moral code and denying the existence of God is self-deception. With the "death of God," the moral foundation of Christianity also died. Morality is simply that which is in the best interest of an individual, or that which is to the benefit of the powerful. It would be more accurate to say that morality itself is an illusion. Atheists trying to defend themselves or Atheism on the basis of morality is irrational. Every atheist on this board has criticized Christianity and the Bible based upon the ethical standards taught by the Scriptures.

      May 1, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • TR

      Correction nemo, they are skewing biblical standards to criticize the Bible.

      May 1, 2012 at 6:43 pm |
  16. GodPot

    Christian – "You atheists just don't understand and need to read the bible"

    Atheist – "We have read your bible, and here are many quoted scriptures to prove how flawed your view of your own religion is."

    Christian – "You are just taking those scriptures out of context, Jesus did away with the old laws you keep using"

    Atheist – "Here is another scripture to prove you are wrong, again (Matt 5:17-19)"

    Christian – "Just stop with all the hate! Why do you hate us so much! We teach love!"

    Atheist – "So how do you feel about Islam, atheism and anyone who doesn't hold your faith as truth?"

    Christian – "Muslims, atheists and those who do not accept our God will die and be tortured for eternity!"

    Atheist – "Ah, so it's not so much that you teach love, but only love of yourselves then."

    Christian – "NO, YOU ARE DUM, I AM ARE SMARTEST, WHY DON'T YOU FEER HEII? YOUR SOLE IS FOURFEET!!

    Atheist – "Okay, I see this is going nowhere, moving on..."

    April 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • James Madison

      In the Christian parts, your spelling and syntax were far too good .

      April 30, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • Dan

      Nice straw man argument.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • momoya

      That seemed fairly representative to me, and I've probably engaged with several hundred christians in debates.. I ran into maybe five total that could actually stay on topic and debate the issues fairly.. Most are even worse than godpot's representation.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • GodPot

      @Dan – If I am attacking a distorted version of the Christian position, then please point out where I might have gotten the Christian position wrong instead of just claiming "straw man!"...

      April 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • J.W

      No Christian has ever said any of those things.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Ted

      Sounds about right.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • GodPot

      "No Christian has ever said any of those things."

      When faced with reality most addicts will often seek refuge in denial. Here are the new 12 steps that might help:

      Step 1 – We admitted we have power over our addiction – that our religious lives had become unmanageable and unsustainable.
      Step 2 – Came to believe that no Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
      Step 3 – Made a decision to turn our will and our lives away from other peoples invented God
      Step 4 – Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
      Step 5 – Admitted to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our addiction to religion
      Step 6 – Were entirely ready to have God removed along with all these defects of his character
      Step 7 – Humbly asked ourselves to remove our reliance on imaginary beings
      Step 8 – Made a list of all persons we had harmed through our faith, and became willing to make amends to them all
      Step 9 – Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
      Step 10 – Continued to take personal inventory and when we we are wrong promptly admitted it
      Step 11 – Sought through meditation to improve our conscious contact with ourselves for we know we are the only ones who can make this change
      Step 12 – Having had a humanist awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs

      April 30, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • jim mccandless

      great job of making up your own quotes. why would anyone believe your version of anything?

      April 30, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Dan

      I'd love to (for a good start, you might want to consider Wittgenstein's concept of "Language Games" when you attempt to generalize the belief systems of others), but I realized something from all these comments on all these pages. Given the venom and quality of rhetoric in these discussions, it would be a waste of time. Everyone will pick at each other's arguments. At the end of the day, there's nothing I can do or say to convince you. At the end of the day, you will still think my views are idiotic, as I will with your views. Nothing gets accomplished because of the level animosity and vitriol. Each side will think their side won and had the best argument (Example: Momoya in this group feels expert enough about your arguement simply because of meeting and arguing with Christians before–apparently that is all it takes to know more about Christianity than Christians themselves). At the end of the day, I will go back to living my life, trying to find meaning for my life, and you will be there to bash it. I am okay with that.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • aclimatehawk

      Dan, I guess you missed this from a few years ag::o http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2010/09/why-do-atheists-know-more-about-religion/22880/# Many of us were raised in Christian households. We were given Bibles, and expected to learn from them. So of us were expected to learn about the Nicean and other early Christian conferences. Armed with this knowledge we discoved for ourselves the hypocrisy of the religon.

      April 30, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • cg3001

      HAHAHA, I love godpot....you rock...so when you going for president..u got my vote

      April 30, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • clabern

      The old covenant laws were only to be applied to those who agreed to abide by them within the land given to the jews. Anyone who did not want to be apart of it was free to go somewhere else to live however they chose. It was not a set of laws that New Testament Believers were required to impose on others around them.

      1. New testament believers (Christians) are told to live among those who don't believe in Christ, peaceably. The only instruction for them to seperate themselves was from other people who claimed to be Christians but who engaged in certain behavior)

      2. Matt 5:17 passage was a reminder that the law was the measure of a righteous man, and that Jesus Himself fulfilled it. Again, it was not a requirement that all others need be held to (because Jesus did it for them).

      3. Arguing with those who do not agree is purposeless as there are those who even God is content to let believe what they want (someone who does want to know will search it out):

      2 Thessalonians 2:09-11, New King James Version (NKJV)

      9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,...

      4. In response to the often heard complaint of Throat Shoving: come on, admit the hyperbole.

      Free Speech and Caring For Your neighbor do not have to be mutually exclusive.

      April 30, 2012 at 6:40 pm |
    • immobee

      the teaching of hellfire is a false teaching. true christians know that a God of love would not use torture on anyone. ask any of Jehovah's witnesses.

      April 30, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
    • erk

      You are still going to Hell with that thinking. Do you think you and the Earth and all of the life came from NOTHING? Really?

      April 30, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • Rodboy

      Godpot, we christians did not say that G O D did , how would you feel if you sent your only son to help the world and they killed him, maybe ticked huh.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • TR

      @ACH
      It's funny how often familiarity with the Bible somehow equates to expertise with the Bible. I have been exposed to, read, studied, and received passing grades with college-level calculus yet I'm smart enough to acknowledge my expertise with it is highly limited when compared to those who mastered it.

      There are so many non-christians who claim, "I grew up a Catholic" or "I've the read the Bible front to back more than once" yet still do not understand fundamental biblical concepts. I Stephen Hawkins A Brief History of Time yet I didn't get it all. Hell, even Stephen Hawkins is now getting it that HE didn't get it all and how many scientists spent years on wild goose chases based on his Black Hole theories? AND THEY WERE EXPERTS!

      April 30, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Too Legit 2 Quit

      “Arguing with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it’s victorious.” – Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

      Gives me a good laugh every time.

      April 30, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • smashicus

      Nice conversation you just had with yourself Godpot. Are you off your meds again?

      April 30, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • Daaaaaaa

      I never read anything more moronic than I just read here from you. It actually is the pinnacle of stupidity and percisely the problem. Are you related Bill Maher? Apparently you and he actually believe you have completed the journey of the enlightenment of man. I'm afraid you have miles to go before you sleep. Keep trying.

      May 1, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Zag

      @aclimatehawk

      You must think very highly of yourselves to truly believe that out of the billions of people raised in religious homes (i'm talking all religions not just Christianity, though there are well over a billion Christians) you are the very few (i'm guessing less than 1/10 of a percent) who have become enlightened and embraced atheism. While many simply cease to practice their religion of birth, very very few actually renounce it for atheism.

      Considering you are so much more intelligent than the rest of use, I certainly expect you all to be billionaires many times over by now. In fact I would consider it a failure for you to have less than 10 patents and be the chief of neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins by the age of 30. You are like God's among men (ooops there is no such thing).

      May 1, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • *facepalm*

      @Zag – why do you think that 97% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are atheist?

      May 1, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • TR

      @*facepalm* and how do you explain away all the scientific discoveries by Christians? Kepler? Copernicus? Galilei? and so on...and so on...and so on. Are you going to rewrite their history as progressives do with the Founders?

      May 1, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  17. Catholicism is not healthy for a boy's anus

    A prison cell changes things.

    April 30, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • TR

      Apparently it's not for gay men either. Perhaps you should read CDC studies.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
  18. J.W

    Atheists consume their own feces to help themselves evolve.

    April 30, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • momoya

      And THAT'S what Jesus would do/say.

      April 30, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • James Madison

      Gotta love Christians – so quick with the weird old Leviticus rules, but totally unable to live up to Jesus' most basic instructions of "love thy neighbor" and "turn the other cheek."

      But we are quite used to Christian hypocrisy. No surprise at all.

      April 30, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Gregg

      Yeah, the Leviticus rules, which they then would say that Jesus did away with them, which is why they can eat pork, shellfish, etc. Yet they still quote from Leviticus when they come out against gay rights.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      http://listverse.com/2009/01/05/top-10-signs-of-evolution-in-modern-man/

      April 30, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • J.W

      I didnt say anything bad about anybody.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • just sayin

      "Atheists consume their own feces to help themselves evolve."
      .
      Some might say it beats licking the b@ lls of Jesus while on ones knees.

      April 30, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Tom

      Don't be angry at us that your religion is a myth

      April 30, 2012 at 4:35 pm |
    • J.C

      A christian does their best work, on their knees

      April 30, 2012 at 6:33 pm |
    • Rodboy

      Tom, unless you are real study hound in physics , I would not go and the Christian it is a myth. When you look at the basis for anthies world , it will make you laugh, especially the part where the science guys say " we need to assume that matter was always here in order to make our formulas work , – what a laugh.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • smashicus

      So fake James Madison wannabe, that's not hate spewing from your orifice?

      April 30, 2012 at 10:37 pm |
    • Quaker

      Just because some1 goes to church and reads the bible and "says" they are a Christian doesn't not actually mean they practice the peace and love teachings of the bible. It is so convenient for you to lump all of us in with the people that can't even get the Golden Rule, as I am sure all of those "Christians" that go around telling you what to believe and how to live would love for you to do the same to them.

      And I hate to let all of you Atheist out there that love to slam "Christians" for not being able to hold a conversation without losing track, getting louder than everyone else to win, or generally unable to defend their point, but you don't have to be a Christian for that to be true. I would wager that at least 80% of the population is that way.

      May 1, 2012 at 8:39 am |
  19. Randy Stone Live

    to Jim from BC, #1 intellecutal arguements and the bible rarely lead to anything good. Jesus said, "Love God & Love People". These laws supercede every thing else. Attacking someone for who they are or what they believe, for the express purpose of changing them is never going to work.

    April 30, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • momoya

      Nobody was "attacked" for their belief–unless that person was pro-sl.avery and you really, really screw around with the meaning of the word "attacked."

      April 30, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • Gregg

      That's because Christians pick and choose what to read, and believe in the bible. One of the reasons we have so many different denominations and sects in Christianity, is because different people and different groups have differing ideas of what parts to pick and choose, as well as different justifications for what and how they pick and choose. Even a Christian who claims to believe the entire bible is completely true and without error, still picks and chooses. The bible is not consistent, thus each Christian will prioritize and elevate some parts, while de-emphasizing, or even ignoring other parts.

      April 30, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • TR

      @Gregg
      I do? Which parts have i picked and chosen? Which parts have I not been able to reconcile the "inconsistencies" of and selected one over the other?

      April 30, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
  20. Gregg

    For those Christians trying to defend statements in the bible that condone mistreating gays, why pick on gays. The bible has a lot more statements, and is even more harsh, towards people who practice other faiths. Keep in mind, there are a lot more unbelievers, and believers of "false" gods and "false" doctrines. Why did you stop going after them, rather than getting caught in this whole gay distraction?

    April 30, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • danielwalldammit

      It is amazing just how many people have grown accustomed to the notion that the Bible is all love and fuzzy ponies. They don't even see the violence when the text is right in front of them.

      April 30, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • drloko

      The New Testiment (the one with Jesus) is the lovey part. Most of those hateful things you are referring to are in the Old Testiment (the one that is the base of the Torrah, you know, the Jews).

      So, in fact you are really an antisemite more than anti-Christian. Just want to help you get your hate straight.

      April 30, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Rodboy

      Gregg , you need to bone up a little before you spout stuff – hipocrites and gossips get the worst of it. Also define love thy neighbor in the text which include foreigners – those other religious people. Don't take other people word for stuff.

      April 30, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.