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Biden's support for gay marriage matches most Catholics' views
Vice President Joe Biden went further than President Barack Obama has on supporting gay marriage.
May 7th, 2012
07:28 AM ET

Biden's support for gay marriage matches most Catholics' views

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) - Apparent White House division over gay marriage - with Vice President Joe Biden saying Sunday that he is “absolutely comfortable” with the idea, going further than President Obama has on the issue – mirrors a nation that is evenly divided on the matter. Recent polls show that about half of Americans favor legalized gay marriage, while half oppose it, with support for the idea gaining significant ground over the past 15 years.

Pew’s latest polling on the issue, conducted late last year, found that 46% of Americans support favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, while 44% are opposed. Support for gay civil unions is substantially higher, with a clear majority of Americans supporting such arrangements.

Feelings about gay marriage correlate to various religious traditions and levels of religiosity, with those nonaffiliated with any religion most supportive of gay marriage. It’s worth noting the dramatic recent shifts on the issue among Roman Catholics, whose ranks include Biden.

Despite the Roman Catholic Church’s rigorous opposition to gays getting the right to marry, Pew found that Catholics support gay marriage by a margin of 52% to 37%. That’s a shift from 2010, when just 46% of Catholics favored gay marriage.

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Among white Catholics, support is even higher at 57%, while Hispanic Catholics are evenly divided.

The religious group most opposed to gay marriage is white evangelical Protestants, among whom 74% oppose it, according to Pew. Sixty-two percent of black Protestants, a key part of President Obama’s political base, also oppose gay marriage.

After Biden voiced support for gay marriage, a senior Obama campaign adviser said there was no difference on the issue between the vice president and the president, who once said he opposed gay marriage but has since said his views on the matter are “evolving.”

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"What the VP said - that all married couples should have the same legal rights - is (precisely) POTUS' position," said David Axelrod, a senior adviser to Obama's re-election campaign, in a Twitter message.

The issue has gotten attention recently as North Carolinians prepare to vote Tuesday on a ballot initiative that would amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage, reinforcing a state law banning such unions. The Rev. Billy Graham has endorsed the measure, while former President Bill Clinton has taped a robo call opposing it.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: 2012 Election • Gay marriage • Politics

soundoff (921 Responses)
  1. Haime52

    IN a purely secular sense, the state has no overriding interest in bans on gay/lesbian marriage. Where is the state's interest in plural marriage? If they are consenting adults, don't they also have rights to marry, as they please? If men and women can then have multiple spouses, then would group marriage be feasible? All consenting adults, after all. Does the state have an overriding interest in banning that?

    The point is that, taken to its logical conclusion, giving rights to all consent partnerships, marriage becomes a circus and meaningless. And are there any lines that can't be crossed and where do the lines get drawn?

    Personally, I'm surprised it took this long for this issue to come to a head. However, I thought it would be plural marriage to come first.

    May 9, 2012 at 5:05 am |
  2. dtschuck

    I apply the same person rule to gay marriage as I do most other things....if I isn't any skin off my nose and it doesn't hurt others, I'm all for it, at least, I'ml not agin it.

    May 8, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • Cq

      Very reasonable viewpoint.

      May 8, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  3. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    May 8, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Jesus

      ~Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!.~.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
  4. IggyDad

    "Apparent White House division over gay marriage – with Vice President Joe Biden saying Sunday that he is “absolutely comfortable” with the idea, going further than President Obama has on the issue – mirrors a nation that is evenly divided on the matter." The writer stretches the definition of "division." It is more an issue of political emphasis. No, it does not "mirror a nation that is evenly divided on the matter." Not even close. The writer is creating a bogus wide gap between Obama and Biden and a false equivalency to the strident anti-gay conservatives vs. gay rights supporters. That's ridiculous. Read what Obama says in his interview in the latest Rolling Stone.

    May 8, 2012 at 11:41 am |
  5. Frank

    Are they referring to practicing Catholics or people who consider themselves Catholic by attending church twice a year or because they grew up in the church but no longer attend?

    May 8, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • Cq

      I think that describes the vast majority of Catholics in the US. The Mel Gibson types are a very small minority.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • WarhammerTwo

      Exactly, Frank. Just like most Catholics use birth control against the teaching of the Catholic Church. Here's the thing: if you don't believe and follow the tenants and teaching of the Catholic Church, then you are NOT Catholic. Don't believe me? Go ask your priest. That's what I did. And that's what he told me.

      If you do not subscribe to ALL of the Catholic Church's teaching then you are, for lack of a better term, lying to yourself and the church. You do not get to pick or choose. In the Catholic Church, it's all or nothing.

      So, yeah, that's what my priest said. Since I support gay marriage, stem cell research and birth control, he asked that I stop being a hypocrite, no longer partake in the Eucharist and refrain from calling myself Catholic unless I renounce my stance on such issues and receive penance and absolution via confession for ever holding such beliefs – although I am always welcome to attend the Holy Liturgy and receive the Word of God.

      I ultimately opted out and joined the United Church of Christ instead. I'm much happier not being a hypocrite.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Geewizz

      Hit the button. That is why the article is a poorly written one.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Carl

      People that think this way REALLY crack me up. IT DOES NOT matter what the majority thinks when it comes to Biblical issues. The ONLY opiinon that matters is GOD'S. Satan does not thnk sin is a big deal either. Does his opinion on the issue matter to God? NOPE!

      Have fun in hell 🙂

      May 8, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Nonimus

      @Frank,
      "Have fun in hell "

      ...only if you show me around. I doubt that I'll have the connections that you will.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • Nonimus

      Sorry that was meant for @Carl, not Frank.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "IT DOES NOT matter what the majority thinks when it comes to Biblical issues. The ONLY opiinon that matters is GOD'S."

      Considering humans wrote that book and not god, it makes me wonder how you believe any god had a hand in creating such vile, bigoted, hate-filled filth.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
  6. NOT MY CHAIR

    i am curious what the other 10% think

    May 8, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • JoeG

      They could probably care less one way or the other.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  7. PrimeNumber

    The catholic church sees two kinds of marriage: civil, and sacramental. A sacramental gay marriage is an oxymoron. As this catholic sees it, the sooner we have gay marriage the sooner we can see them divorcing at a rate of 50-60% (assuming they have as much pressure on them as hetero marriages). Like the rest of this culture, they will say, "Heck, it's only a piece of paper" and start moving in together. But I'm not going to celebrate my own broad (but shallow) mindedness because gay marriage will bring its own complications. I'm aware of a man who became a woman and dumped his wife. Next he/she married another woman who had two children. The children are coming to school with bruises and scratches. The authorities are trying to figure out which of the two "mommies" are abusing the children. Yes, gay people are human after all.

    May 8, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • YeahRight

      "The children are coming to school with bruises and scratches. The authorities are trying to figure out which of the two "mommies" are abusing the children. Yes, gay people are human after all."

      Out of all the studies done one of the things that came out of them was that a dual lesbian home is far more loving than straight couples and the children actually turn out better. So just because you are citing on example it doesn't apply to the whole group as the experts have shown.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Cq

      You can't find any other explanation for why these kids would have injuries? Kids with gay parents aren't always the most popular, you know?

      May 8, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • K3Citizen

      Abusive people don't have to be married to be abusive.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • catholic engineer

      @YeahRight With all due respect to your comments, I'm not sure about the validity of the studies. Unless large numbers of gay couples have been raising kids "in the closet", and then "come out" to be studied, there can't be a lot of data. I have to honestly wonder, though. If a child is raised in a lezbian family, will that child be confused if they turn out to be hetero?

      May 8, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @catholic engineer,
      I'm not sure what sample size was used since citations are rarely used on this site. However, it seemed to me that you are saying that there aren't enough same-s.ex households with children in the US to even make a statistically valid comparison. So, just as an FYI, there were around 115,064 such households in 2010, at least according to the Census Bureau's American Community Survey (http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acsbr10-03.pdf). It is a small percentage of all US households and I'm not a statistician, but I suspect that it is sufficient for some comparisons.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm |
    • Cq

      catholic engineer
      I kinda doubt that there are many lesbians who believe that being straight is alltogether unnatural, so no, I don't think their kids would end up feeling weird if they happened to be hetero.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:14 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Unless large numbers of gay couples have been raising kids "in the closet", and then "come out" to be studied, there can't be a lot of data. I have to honestly wonder, though. If a child is raised in a lezbian family, will that child be confused if they turn out to be hetero?"

      No, the studies have shown that sexual orientation is not based on the parents. What your statement shows is you haven't done your research on this subject.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
  8. wolfpackbob

    Biden speaks for Biden. If the media loudly supports the distinction between President Obama and his pastor of twenty years, the honorable Reverend Wright, why this promoted connectivity between Joe Biden and Roman Catholics? Is President Obama a member in good-standing with Reverend Wright's church? Is Joe Biden a practicing member of the Roman Catholic church or is he a member of the Washington DC Catholic church shared by Nancy Pelosi and Secretary Sibelius? CNN's agenda is clear and getting clearer every day.

    May 8, 2012 at 9:41 am |
  9. AlanMichael

    Christians love to quote what they think aligns with scripture. You should try to align yourself with Jesus, he set an example if you followed his example as much as you attempt to follow scripture the world would be a better place. Whom did Jesus condemn? Did he condemn the woman caught in Adultery? Jesus said don't judge, love thy neighbor, love they enemy, that's scripture, how’s that.

    May 8, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • Bill

      You are correct that Jesus did not condemn such individulas, but neither did He condone or legitimize their actions. Instead He implored them to "Go, and sin no more." That is the case here, not to judge individulas, but at the same time not to condone behavior that Scripture identifies as ungodly.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • AlanMichael

      @ Bill that is the case here, Gays are being judged. If what Gays are doing is wrong they will be judge by God. Who are we to say they can’t be married, that is not in scripture. Forcibly denying gays the right to be married is not scripture.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:34 am |
    • Primewonk

      Sorry – but this is just one of the (many, many) things your god totallly screwed up. Or maybe it was the fault of the scientifically ignorant nomadic bronze-age shepherds.

      Being born gay – a normal, natural variant of human sèxual orientation – is about as sinful as being born left-handed, or green-eyed.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:34 am |
    • Bill

      @ AlanMichael

      My final comment – Scripture is clear regarding the gay lifestyle – marriage is seen as condoning that lifestyle. Gays are not condemned by me, or many other against gay marriage. But neither will gay marriage be supported, as it is viewed as condoning / supporting something Scripture prohibits.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • Primewonk

      Bill – for some bizarre reason you seem to think that we are a theocracy. You seem to think that what your version of a god wants, need, desires, or demands has relevance in our civil laws.

      I wonder why you think this way?

      May 8, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • AlanMichael

      @ Bill you are leaving, I’m sad, we were having a good discussion. Anyway; if you read this; it’s perfectly ok for Christian not to condone gay lifestyle, forcibly denying marriage goes beyond “not condoning”. It’s violating civil rights is not scripture, it is wrong to legislate scripture; Jesus never attempted to legislate his teachings. Like you said; Jesus told the woman to “go and sin no more” he didn’t ask Cesar to make an anti-adultery legislation.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Cq

      Bill
      Which "scripture" condemns the gay lifestyle, the old Law that Jesus replaced, or Paul's own personal opinion? Where did Jesus expressly condemn being gay?

      May 8, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Go, and sin no more.""

      Actually he didn't say that. Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • YeahRight

      "My final comment – Scripture is clear regarding the gay lifestyle "

      No it's not, nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful relationship of a gay couple. What your bible does condemn is male prostitution, idolatry and pagan worship using sex, that has nothing to do with what we now know about gays.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • AlanMichael

      @ YeahRight;
      Sir you are incorrect, Jesus does say “go and sin no more” Read John 8:11. Here are two versions but they are basically the same:
      The KJV says; She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

      The NIV says; "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

      May 8, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • J.W

      AlanMichael in which verse does Jesus say Hom0s3xuality is a sin? If Jesus is not telling us it is a sin why would he tell anyone to walk away from it? In order for your argument to work you would have to show first that Jesus did feel it was a sin.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Cq

      J. W.
      The Jews considered it a sin, but not the Gentiles. It's part of the Jewish Law, and still applies to them, but if Gentiles can become Christians without following Jewish law there really isn't any reason why today's Christians should be opposing it, right?

      May 8, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • TR6

      @Bill:”You are correct that Jesus did not condemn such individulas, but neither did He condone or legitimize their actions”

      So anything that Jesus did not specifically condone must be a sin? That’s going to be a very long list and Christians will be in repet1tive violation of most of them.

      As I recall he did specifically condemn divorce and remarriage, which most Christians accept as perfectly normal

      May 8, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Sir you are incorrect, Jesus does say “go and sin no more” Read John 8:11. Here are two versions but they are basically the same:"

      What you are not comprehending is the whole book of John is a fake, written by a scribe it was never part of the original gospels. Jesus never said those things! Duh!

      May 8, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "Instead He implored them to "Go, and sin no more." That is the case here, not to judge individulas, but at the same time not to condone behavior that Scripture identifies as ungodly."

      Sorry Bill, but your scripture is nothing but the words of a bunch of men over a long period of time. Not the words of god.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "Gays are not condemned by me, or many other against gay marriage. But neither will gay marriage be supported, as it is viewed as condoning / supporting something Scripture prohibits."

      So what you are really saying is: "its ok with me if they are gay, but they sure as h...elll wont have equal rights". Do yourself a favor and research "marriage". you will find it was not created by your god of the church but many years prior to your religion.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
  10. draccae

    I'm not seeing Biden accepting gay marriage to be anything at all like the Catholics. I am not Catholic but I live in a predominately Catholic area, work with about 30, probably 70% or more of our town is Catholic and they have always seemed (and even voiced that opinion) as being very much against gay marriage. At least from what I have overheard over the last 16 years being around them and still hear.

    May 8, 2012 at 9:00 am |
    • Mei

      I agree.. Catholics who PRACTICE their faith do NOT support gay marriage. Those who do are NOT following Catholic teaching at all and shouldn't even call themselves Catholic.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:10 am |
    • WarhammerTwo

      You're exactly right, Mei. I posted this elsewhere, but I'll repost it here because it ties in directly with what you stated:

      Just like most Catholics use birth control against the teaching of the Catholic Church. Here's the thing: if you don't believe and follow the tenants and teaching of the Catholic Church, then you are NOT Catholic. Don't believe me? Go ask your priest. That's what I did. And that's what he told me.

      If you do not subscribe to ALL of the Catholic Church's teaching then you are, for lack of a better term, lying to yourself and the church. You do not get to pick or choose. In the Catholic Church, it's all or nothing.

      So, yeah, that's what my priest said. Since I support gay marriage, stem cell research and birth control, he asked that I stop being a hypocrite, no longer partake in the Eucharist and refrain from calling myself Catholic unless I renounce my stance on such issues and receive penance and absolution via confession for ever holding such beliefs – although I am always welcome to attend the Holy Liturgy and receive the Word of God.

      I ultimately opted out and joined the United Church of Christ instead. I'm much happier not being a hypocrite.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Decm

      Catholic as you describe it = Close-minded and bigoted

      Jesus would HATE the Catholics of today.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Cq

      Decm
      I don't know about "hate", but he sure wouldn't side with any of the Christian Right, if the stories about his dealings with the Pharisees in the gospels can be trusted.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • Snow

      I guess you people are so busy judging who the true catholics are that you forgot one of your god's primary teachings.. something that goes like "judge not.."

      and that, according to your own reasons, make none of you catholics or christians. but sure makes you hypocrites..

      May 8, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
  11. Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

    Catholicism has the cure for gayness. Just get on your knees, take a swig of wine, and accept the body of a man into your mouth.

    May 8, 2012 at 8:53 am |
    • John

      Says the voice of experience

      May 8, 2012 at 9:17 am |
  12. Wayne

    I have never understood the problem with gay marriage. What difference does it make if a gay couple has rings on their fingers or not? I guess their ultimate wish is the ban being gay alltogether (penalty of death) but they know that's unrealistic. The best alternative is just to keep them from getting married.

    May 8, 2012 at 8:40 am |
  13. Rachel

    As a catholic myself, Biden's views do not match mine. Not even close.

    May 8, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      congratulations...now go back to indoctrinating your children with mythical stories created by many different people over a long period of time.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • John

      Or become an atheist and start worshiping yourself

      May 8, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
  14. eric calderone

    What a plurality or majority of individuals who are nominally Catholic believe is irrelevant. What those who actually subscribe to, and practice Catholicism believe, is relevant. What the Church teaches is relevant. Do you understand, Mr. Gilgoff?

    May 8, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Eric
      How's that cilice fitting you? Kind of itchy, itsn't it.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:57 am |
    • Cq

      eric
      As the old saying goes, the second largest denomination behind Catholics is lapsed Catholics, which still places them ahead of cherry picking evangelicals and nobody regards them as "irrelevant", do they? They are a large group, they have an opinion, and they vote, so that makes them pretty relivant.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Nonimus

      @eric calderone,
      It may be irrelevant as to whether his views are "correct" in the eyes of the church, but it is very relevant to the upcoming elections. I doubt lapsed Catholics are going to be voting according to how strictly observant a candidate is. Additionally, I don't think the article was even attempt to say that his views are "correct" or "incorrect".

      May 8, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
  15. samot

    Biden is a proven moron.

    May 8, 2012 at 8:38 am |
    • ARM

      Biden is a proven moron – Absolutely.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:37 am |
  16. religion; a way to control the weak minded

    Mark from Middle River said: "I really wish they'd ban gays from this country. These trashy people don't belong here."

    Talk about typical christian rhetoric. Bigotry and hate are what fuel that religion.

    May 8, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • John

      Typical moronic rhetoric...could be a closet atheist.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
  17. Greg C.

    Catholics that are followers of the faith will align to scripture; those that don't won't. The scripture is quite clear on the issue. Biden is clearly not a follower of the faith. He may go through the motions but his track record, his rhetoric, and his actions are indicative of this. Classic Biden and predictable...politics at its finest...

    May 8, 2012 at 7:51 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      What scripture?
      References please, so that we might debate whether it is as clear cut as you believe.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      You know nothing about your own scripture. Leviticus is where gays are vilified, but Jesus never mentioned gays. If you feel you must align with old testament law then you should also be stoning to death your disobedient children and never wearing cloth of 2 fibers or eating shellfish. Basically any Christian who believes being gay is a sin is also a total hypocrite.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:16 am |
    • samot

      agree !

      May 8, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • samot

      Agree with Greg !

      May 8, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Samot
      Maybe you can help us out and give us the scriptural references.
      Chapters and verses would suffice.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, here's a few scriptures you can read ...

      Faithful men are those who take heed to God's Word ( Matthew 24:45-51; 25:21-23; Luke 12:42-48; 16:10-12; Revelation 17:14) ... the rarest of rare in today's world.

      Most men, especially FALSE Christian men, are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents .... (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

      Most men will go to hell (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24; 1 Peter 3:17-18). Why? Because "they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10). You can thank or be disgusted with yourself for listening to the false preachers of this world that stroke your ego for what you want to hear instead of learning Jesus' truth.

      Reminder: Read the Bible yourself so you can compare Jesus' truth with what false preachers teach.

      Amen.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • HeavenSent

      ASteve, Romans 1:26-28 is a must read.

      Amen.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      No worries about me following false prophets.
      I consider all shamans con-men.
      I'm asking for the scripture that specifically condemns gays, since that is the topic at hand.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      God was angry with the people in Romans 1:26 becuase of their apsotasy.
      They were Christians who rejected their religion to join in a pagan or/gy.
      That it was a no holds barred, bi-se.xual or/gy is irrelevant – God would have been just as displeased if it were hetero or/gy.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • AlanMichael

      Chistians love to quote what they think aligns with scripture. You should try to align yourself with Jesus, he set an example if you followed his example as much as you attempt to follow scripture the world would be a better place. Whom did Jesus comdem Jesus said don't judge, love thy neighbor, love they enemy, that's scripture, hows that.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:07 am |
    • Bill

      To Doc and AtheistSteve

      There are clear New Testament teachings regarding this issue – Romans 1: 26-28; I Corinthians 6:9; I Timothy 1:10. One may choose not to accept these teachings as authoritative if they like, but it is wrong to assert that they do not exist.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:13 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, read Matthew 6 very carefully because you're paying too much attention to the ways of the world.

      Amen.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:22 am |
    • SouthernCelt

      @Doc Vestibule:
      There are a few references. The familiar Leviticus condemnation from the Old Testament, and Mark 5:17 from the New Testament where Jesus says He came not to change the Law but fulfill it. He told us to love God and love each other.
      That does not mean the Old Testament is invalid, just clarified.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      1 Corinthians 6:9 only condemns gays in certain translations.
      The original greek words used were "malakoi" and "ars.enkotai".
      10 different bible translations give 10 different definitions.
      'Ar.senokoitai' referred to male prosti.tutes for Paul and Christians until the 4th century.
      Until the Reformation in the 16th century and in Roman Catholicism until the 20th century, malakoi was thought to mean "mas.turb.ators." Only since the 20th century has it been understood as a reference to hom.ose.xuality.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      1 Timothy 1:10's condemnation also depends on the translation you're reading.
      The King James Bible (Cambridge Edition) goes as follows:
      "For who.remongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

      Nothing specific about gay folk in there.
      Many American translations toss in "sodomites", who aren't necessarily gay, and some other explicitly say "ho./mose/xuals" – but it again comes down to how you translate "malakoi" and "ars.enkotai"

      May 8, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • HeavenSent

      AlanMichael, you posted “Chistians love to quote what they think aligns with scripture. You should try to align yourself with Jesus, he set an example if you followed his example as much as you attempt to follow scripture the world would be a better place. Whom did Jesus comdem Jesus said don't judge, love thy neighbor, love they enemy, that's scripture, hows that.”

      Answer: True believers judge, not according to their own standard (Matthew 7:1-2). "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (John 7:24, Ephesians 5:11, 1 Corinthian 5:12). "But he who is spiritual judges ALL things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one." 1 Corinthians 2:15 (1 Corithians 6:2-3; 10:15; 14:29, Romans 16:17). Judging Is Believing. Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? (Luke 12:57). What is right? The statutes of the Lord are right (Psalm 19:8).

      Besides, B-iden is ushering satan’s four hidden dynasties (referred to as the four horns in scriptures). The 4 hidden dynasties of satan are Educational (Includes the media), Economic, Religious and Political.

      Amen.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • YeahRight

      "ASteve, Romans 1:26-28 is a must read."

      Part of reading comprehension 101 is you read the other scriptures around it and not cherry pick. Only prejudice bigots cherry pick like this. If you scroll up in that scripture to 23 it's talking about worshiping a pagan god using sex. That scripture has nothing to do with what we now know about gays. That was a practice Romans used to worship their gods. It might help if you actually pick up a history book to get the REAL meaning of those scriptures.

      May 8, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • AlanMichael

      @ Heaven Sent;
      You are quoting scripture, like I said, what did Jesus do, how did he live? Christians are supposed to be, Christ like, followers of Christ, I suggest we follow him. Anyone can easily quote scripture to their advantage, when are you going to show the scripture where it says to force your belief on others. Unless a gay person is requesting to get married in a church, denying gay marriage is a matter of civil rights.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • HeavenSent

      AlanMichael, I suggest you read about being a salty Christian first.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, unfortunately for you, your schooling falls under the four hidden dynasties of satan. The four hidden dynasties (referred as the four horns in scriptures) are global tools used by satan in the end times to usher him in as the antichrist imitating the true Christ. With that said, cherry picking scriptures is what non-believers do. Convenient rip apart the following scriptures from King James Bible (not the evil new version bibles that stroke man/woman) too so it fits neatly into your convenient ways of the world thinking:

      Romans 1:26-28
      1 Timothy 1:8-11
      1 Corinthians 6:9-11
      John 3:15-21
      John 8:41-48
      Jerermiah 23:19-27
      Isaiah 29:16
      Jude 7
      Genesis 19:4-11

      Amen.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • YeahRight

      "with that said, cherry picking scriptures is what non-believers do."

      LMAO Yo moron...you just did the very that very thing in your post. What an idiot.Thanks for proving your poor reading comprehension skills. DUH!

      May 8, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Cq

      Still, if Jesus came to "fulfill scripture" then why are all you fine Gentiles allowed to be Christians? Why aren't you practicing Jewish Law to its fullest? More of the usual cherry picking?

      May 8, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • Cq

      HS
      Actually, pointing out Christian cherry picking is what many non-believers do.

      And where do you guys get all this conspiracy theory theology?

      May 8, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, I've never played your game that non-believers don't want to read, hear, or discuss Jesus' truth written in scriptures. You, however, believe the ways of the world and haven't a clue that Jesus divinely inspired holy men to scripted His truth (the Bible).

      I gave you the scriptures you need to focus on. Read the surrounding scriptures to comprehend the subject, content, outcome of righteous versus unrighteous behaviors. While you are at it, you can learn to cross reference the books in the Bible to get the overall view that if you continue to pay attention to the ways of the world, your worm will never be quenched.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Cq, you posted "Still, if Jesus came to "fulfill scripture" then why are all you fine Gentiles allowed to be Christians? Why aren't you practicing Jewish Law to its fullest? More of the usual cherry picking?"

      Answer: Most Jews remind me of attending a movie, walking out 3/4 of the way through ... then want to tell folks how the movie ended. Torah versus the remaining New Testament in the Bible. Reading all of Jesus' truth and applying His wisdom to our lives is what all of us are to do.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      Yes,those poor Jews trying to get through life with only half a Bible.
      Of course, to Mormons you Christians are trying to get though with only 2/3rds of a Bible.
      Part 1 – Angry God of the Jews
      Part 2 – The Son Loves Everyone
      Part 3 – American Jesus

      May 8, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • AlanMichael

      @ Heavensent;
      Why are you calling me a salty Christian?

      May 8, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      AlanMichael, I never called you a salty Christian. I said to read about being salty.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, you posted about the ways of the world. I pray you can do better than that.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • YeahRight

      “YeahRight, I've never played your game that non-believers don't want to read, hear, or discuss Jesus' truth written in scriptures. You, however, believe the ways of the world and haven't a clue that Jesus divinely inspired holy men to scripted His truth (the Bible).”

      Actually you have no clue about what you are talking about you’ve been brainwashed bias and prejudice preachers you watch on TV. You’re hysterical and what is so great is your posts continue to show the younger generation what is so WRONG with your cult.

      “I gave you the scriptures you need to focus on. Read the surrounding scriptures to comprehend the subject, content, outcome of righteous versus unrighteous behaviors. While you are at it, you can learn to cross reference the books in the Bible to get the overall view that if you continue to pay attention to the ways of the world, your worm will never be quenched.”

      LMAO – you have no clue what reading comprehension is then which actually shows why you continue to misinterpret the scriptures to justify your own personal ego, prejudice and pride. You are nothing like your Christ. What a hypocrite.

      May 8, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • Cq

      HS
      It's their scripture, they should know where it ends, right? What Christians did was create an unauthorized sequel to a "movie" that ended well enough on it's own. It stands like "The Matrix II"; unnecessary to the story of the first movie.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Romans 1:26-28 – has nothing to do with gays as we know and understand it today since they are worshiping a pagan god using sex. It might help if you actually studied Roman culture during that time period.

      1 Timothy 1:8-11 Again the word homosexual wasn’t invented yet and what the original Greek was referring to was male prostitution – it has nothing to do with what we now know and understand about gays today.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Yet again the word homosexual wasn’t invented yet and what the original Greek was referring to was male prostitution – it has nothing to do with what we now know and understand about gays today.

      John 3:15-21 As long as a gay couple is saved before your Christ, which many of them are this scripture does not apply to them, especially as we know and understand it today.

      John 8:41-48 – This one really applies to you and all the lies you have told about gays. Nice try but good cherry picking on your part.

      Jeremiah 23:19-27 – The only one lying about the truth about gays is you so that scripture really applies to your darken heart of hate towards this minority group. (P.S. notice the spelling on Jeremiah, LOL!)

      Isaiah 29:16 – You’re the one who knows nothing especially since hundred of thousand of experts have proven that being gay is not a choice, it’s not a mental illness and it can’t be voluntarily changed. It’s prejudice people like you who twists the scripture to justify your dark heart and evil ways.

      Jude 7 – Again in Ezekiel it talks about bad hospitality was the sin of Sodom now if you actually practiced what you’re trying to preach and take all the scripture together, that has nothing to do with the saved loving gay couple as we know and understand it today. That scripture is talking about rape which is part of the bad hospitality. DUH! .

      Genesis 19:4-11 LOL! DUH…it’s talking about RAPE AGAIN – it’ has nothing to do with the LOVING RESPECTFUL relationship of a gay couple. Are you really that dumb that you don’t understand when someone is being forced to have sex against their will it’s called RAPE!

      Thanks for continuing to prove you will cherry pick and twist the scriptures to justify your dark prejudice heart, especially since the experts around the world have proven you WRONG about gays!

      May 8, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, I don't watch pastors on television except to find out what they are teaching, usually, the ways of the world, not Jesus' truth. The only pastors worth watching to hear Jesus' truth is Shepherd's Chapels (both father and son preach). As for learning scriptures, when you go through the flames and are still standing, we will talk. For that is when His scriptures ring loud and clear and never fail you.

      As for the rest of your post, you rely on man made interpretations that you've incorporated as your own.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "As for the rest of your post, you rely on man made interpretations that you've incorporated as your own."

      LOL! Keep showing your dark prejudice heart with the lies you're spewing. LOL!

      May 8, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Jesus' truth is Shepherd's Chapels"

      LMAO – He's a racist! Thanks for continuing to prove what a dark prejudice heart you have, there is no evidence of your Jesus in it. You are nothing like your Christ.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Oh by the way HS I thought it might help if you look at the definition of
      fornication
      1. voluntary sexual inter b>course outside marriage
      2. (Law) Law voluntary sexual inter b>course between two persons of the opposite sex, where one is or both are unmarried
      3. (Christian Religious Writings / Bible) Bible sexual imm b>orality in general, esp adultery

      Notice...homosexulaity isn't listed but adultery is, that is a far greater sin in the bible. That's pretty funny seeing as the divorce rate in America is 50%. It's because you interpret fornicator as being gay proves the prejudice in your heart. 😉 It's why so many scriptures that you want use against them are not justified.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, you are learning scriptures by folks who twist and contort them to appease man/womant (aka are followers of satan). To believe them when they speak of bad hospitality makes you not only naive, but, you can put yourself in the condemned category along with them.

      Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

      May 8, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, dark heart? Prejudice? For what? Oh, that's right, for not agreeing with you who was, still is, conditioned to be and live foolishly by the fools of this world.

      May 8, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • YeahRight

      “To believe them when they speak of bad hospitality makes you not only naive, but, you can put yourself in the condemned category along with them.”

      Nah you’re already condemned because of your black heart of prejudice so burn baby burn.
      “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

      That scripture has absolutely nothing to do with the loving respectful relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. It has to do with adultery and having sex before you are married. DUH! Keep showing your lack of knowledge in this area. LMAO!
      “YeahRight, dark heart? Prejudice? For what? Oh, that's right, for not agreeing with you who was, still is, conditioned to be and live foolishly by the fools of this world.”

      LOL! You are so clueless that it’s hysterical. DUH! You’ve been proven wrong on your prejudice interpretations of the bible. You’re the one promoting a racist minister, not me. LMAO!

      May 8, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "To believe them when they speak of bad hospitality "

      LOL! That's why you are listening to those that are trying to make it about gays when it has absolutely nothing to do with gays. LMAO! It's because you are so prejudice that you are reading that into the scriptures, your dark heart reveals that about you.

      May 8, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, you can't handle the truth. You live the lie of satan. Enjoy living carnally in this life ... if you don't repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, then sin no more, you will not be spending eternity with Jesus.

      As far as being prejudice and having a black heart. You own that. All that live in darkness, denying Jesus' truth and following satan's lies are in the same predicament. As far as speaking Jesus' truth, I have and will continue to do so even though fools like yourself refuse to comprehend as well as reject it. That too, is written in scriptures if you care to find it out for yourself. If you think you are doing any gay person a favor, that too, you are sadly misinformed by spreading the lies of man.

      May 8, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • YeahRight

      “YeahRight, you can't handle the truth. “

      That’s a lie so you just broke one of the Ten Commandments.

      “You live the lie of satan. Enjoy living carnally in this life ... if you don't repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, then sin no more, you will not be spending eternity with Jesus.”

      Love your desperation but you have still been proven wrong in your dark heart interpretations.

      “As far as being prejudice and having a black heart. You own that. “

      No you’re posts prove you do, there is absolutely no lover or truth in your heart and because I have shown you the TRUTH your ego is on over load.

      “All that live in darkness, denying Jesus' truth and following satan's lies are in the same predicament.”
      Another LIE – again you can’t even follow one of the basic Ten Commandments.

      “As far as speaking Jesus' truth, I have and will continue to do so even though fools like yourself refuse to comprehend as well as reject it. “

      Again another lie because I do comprehend it. LOL!

      “If you think you are doing any gay person a favor, that too, you are sadly misinformed by spreading the lies of man.”

      No, you’re the one spreading the lies since the experts around the world have proven that what was written in the past about gays was done by bias and prejudice people, that includes the writers of the bible. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured.”

      May 8, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Wow HeavenSent turned from a troll who spout out random bible verses and ignores other peoples criticisms to an angry little b.itch with a devil complex.

      May 8, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, you and your buddy HawaiiGuest can listen to all the liars of God's truth all you want because you need your egos stroked. Remember, none of the liars of Jesus' truth will be standing next to you on judgement day. Sin is sin, no matter how many spins, twists and turns man puts on it.

      Good night.

      May 8, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I think my observation hit a little too close to home for HeavenSent.

      May 8, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      HawaiiGuest, you posted "I think my observation hit a little too close to home for HeavenSent."

      Answer: You don't even come close to the truth because your observation is already jaded. I would say, figure it out as you age, but, I'm aware that those that are consumed with their big egos (aka carnally observing) never get it ... so I'll spell it out for you. It's not about you. It's not about me. It's about Jesus and how He wants the best for us (as in all of us). Which means, you need to look inside yourself when reading His truth. If something irks you, it's because you have something to work on. Of course, there is so much more to spiritual awareness than I have time to write ... but, this is a start. Shirking it off by telling me off is a carnal reaction. If you stay in carnal mode, you will always find chips sitting on your shoulders. Shelf the ego and ask Jesus for guidance. How? Read His truth (the Bible).

      P.S. Please do not respond with you know more about the Bible, etc. etc. etc. I want you to have the courage to take the journey of reading His truth with eyes to see and ears to hear ... not what others that have issues about His truth are conditioning you to perceive.

      Peace on your journey of self awareness.

      May 9, 2012 at 6:55 am |
    • Bill

      HeavenSent – Very well said – and probably enough said. They must discover the truth for themselves at this point, and accept it or not. Arguing will not help.

      May 9, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • YeahRight

      “It's about Jesus and how He wants the best for us (as in all of us). Which means, you need to look inside yourself when reading His truth. If something irks you, it's because you have something to work on. Of course, there is so much more to spiritual awareness than I have time to write ... but, this is a start. Shirking it off by telling me off is a carnal reaction. If you stay in carnal mode, you will always find chips sitting on your shoulders. Shelf the ego and ask Jesus for guidance. How? Read His truth (the Bible). “

      What is so wrong with your logic is that Christian continue to state that your god is a living god, that your god created science. That science today is showing that what people knew in the past about gays was WRONG. Being gay is not a choice, it can’t be voluntarily changed and it’s not a mental illness. What you are not considering is that your God could be using that science today to say this is the truth and you need to come into this CENTURY! The one thing your Christ teaches you is everything is based on love. Gays have now proven they have long term loving committed relationships and many are Christians, when science is showing that they are born this way then in their hearts they are not sinning before your god. If you don’t get that then maybe you need to go talk to your preacher to get your over inflated ego in check and to desolve your black evil heart. You are nothing like your Christ.

      May 9, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "They must discover the truth for themselves at this point, and accept it or not. Arguing will not help."

      LMAO you're the ones denying the truth of today. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      May 9, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • Bill

      @YeahRight "Not a mental disorder"

      Not arguing with that – never said it was. Like almost all human behavior it is a choice, a decision to act a certain way.

      May 9, 2012 at 8:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @HeavenSent

      Believing that your brand of christianity is correct and others are wrong is more egotistical than I could ever be. Believing that others will go to hell because they do not believe as you do is sociopathic. You are the one constantly stroking your ego by using god as a justification for the marginalization of others rights.

      May 9, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Erik

      "Like almost all human behavior it is a choice, a decision to act a certain way."

      Being gay is not a choice. I hate to burst any bubbles, but science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

      All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

      Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

      In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

      The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

      On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

      Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

      But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

      This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

      The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

      Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

      Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

      Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

      May 10, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Typical carnal responses to His spiritual truth.

      It's too bad. None of you get it. By the way you are believing, you most probably won't.

      I'm still praying for you.

      Amen.

      May 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
  18. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS:----–>>

    "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

    To wit:

    o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

    “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

    "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

    See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

    Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

    And because of basic biology differences said mo-nogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-s-ex marriages.

    From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

    Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

    May 8, 2012 at 7:49 am |
    • SouthernCelt

      Paran-oid :-)?
      Why should we listen to English psychiatrists? Nothing good ever came from that. Instead of talking to them, talk to a practicing Obstetrician. Birth is not always perfect. Some are born that way, every once in a while a kid comes out with both sets of equipment and the OB has to make a choice. Sometimes they make the wrong choice and you get a brain that thinks one way but is opposite from their "plumbing".

      May 8, 2012 at 9:39 am |
    • Reality

      What is wrong with English psychiatry? Please cite reliable sources to make your case.

      May 9, 2012 at 8:35 am |
  19. ...

    Hey everyone, if you're afraid of your post going "haywire" like the idiot on the last page said, you should change your screen name. According to her, changing screen names prevents comments from going "haywire" by poking the proxy.

    Bahahahaha! Oh holy hell I can't even make this stuff up.

    May 8, 2012 at 7:46 am |
    • Like a G9

      LOL
      Like anyone gives a shiit what you think about something you know nothing about. I have explained how you are stupid.
      Nothing more need be said to you now.

      May 8, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • ...

      Check the other article, princess. I just tore your proxy story apart.

      : )

      Good Luck!

      May 8, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • Like a G9

      ...
      Just keep trolling, troll. You have yet to answer mine where I blow your smelly ass out of the water....using "non-technical" language to boot! 😀

      May 8, 2012 at 9:00 am |
    • Jeanine

      Just an update here.

      ... / atheist fred has admitted to lying about it all and is a worthless piece of shiit for trying to bluff his way past me.

      We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.....

      May 8, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • atheist fred

      Since you obviously didn’t get it the first time, here it is again Jeanine/like a 69

      I never claimed to be an employee of CNN with the exception of this blatantly sarcastic post:
      “I do in fact work for CNN Jeanine, and I can confirm that you are not being blocked. There you have it.“
      If you took that as me trying to be truthful then you’re a bigger idiot than I gave you credit for.

      All I did was chime in on a post because what dot dot dot said made perfect sense in my professional opinion. I don’t give a flying fuck if some wingnut on the internet believes my credentials are factual or not. I’m telling you for a fact, that if you give me the information I requested, I could find the root of the problem you perceive as CNN blocking your IP address. So one more time, put up or shut up you crazy assed bag of dicks!

      I know you won’t give me what I need to prove it to you so take this as a fond farewell.

      May 8, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Like a G9

      Oh, did I forget to mention how many networks I set up when I was working as a computer tech?
      And did I forget to mention how many thousands of IP addresses I personally blocked using ultra-simple firewall settings?
      Ooopsie!

      Have fun with your next ban over at 4chan. Moot does it so easily, you know? Banning IP addresses is the easiest fcking thing in the world to do.

      And you already admitted you lied over and over. And you still want my personal and irrelevant information for your own personal purposes. What a fcking idiot you are, my word! You must think I fell of the fcking turnip truck that brought your mother to my dog to be serviced. How sad.

      Yes, do enjoy your stay at the roach motel in the back. I bid you a laughing sarcastic and scornful farewell, loser! Byeee!

      May 8, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • atheist fred

      What did I lie about you tool?!

      May 8, 2012 at 12:21 pm |
    • bill the janitor

      Since you already admitted you lied, I am surprised you'd bother trying to revive this dead thread, fred.

      May 8, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • atheist fred

      @BIll
      I posted 15 minutes after like a 69. I wouldn’t exactly call it dead there Bill, and where did I admit that I lied, or are you also not familiar with what the term being facetious means? If you cannot tell that that comment was meant in that way, then you’re a big a fool as jeanine/like a 69/and so on. I can’t let that fool have the last word on this.

      May 8, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
  20. Switters

    "Most Catholics" – with, of course, the exception of the American Bishops

    Like everything else in American Catholicism

    May 8, 2012 at 7:36 am |
    • SouthernCelt

      All men sin. That's why the Sacrament of Penance (Confession) exists. Of course, you are only forgiven if you truly Repent.

      May 8, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • Cq

      Are you saying that the bishops have been better Catholics than the average lay person? How many lay people have helped pediphiles get away with their crimes?

      May 8, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.