By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor
Alexandria, Virginia (CNN) – A few hundred Mormons filed into a chapel just outside the Washington Beltway one recent Sunday to hear a somewhat unusual presentation: an Obama administration official recounting his conversion to Mormonism.
“I have never in my life had a more powerful experience than that spiritual moment when the spirit of Christ testified to me that the Book of Mormon is true,” Larry Echo Hawk told the audience, which stretched back through the spacious sanctuary and into a gymnasium in the rear.
Echo Hawk’s tear-stained testimonial stands out for a couple of reasons: The White House normally doesn’t dispatch senior staff to bare their souls, and Mormons hew heavily Republican. It’s not every day a top Democrat speaks from a pulpit owned by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
And yet the presentation by Echo Hawk, then head of the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs, is also a perfect symbol of a phenomenon that could culminate in Mitt Romney’s arrival at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue next year: The nation’s capital has become a Mormon stronghold, with Latter-day Saints playing a big and growing role in the Washington establishment.
The well-dressed crowd gathered for Echo Hawk’s speech was dotted with examples of inside-the-beltway Mormon power.
In one pew sits a Mormon stake president – a regional Mormon leader – who came to Washington to write speeches for Ronald Reagan and now runs a lobbying firm downtown.
Behind him in the elegant but plain sanctuary – Mormon chapels are designed with an eye toward functionality and economy – is a retired executive secretary of the U.S. Supreme Court.
A few pews further back, the special assistant to the U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan sits next to a local Mormon bishop who came to Washington to work for Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah and now leads a congressionally chartered foundation.
Mitt Romney, who would be the first Mormon president if elected, is the son of a Cabinet secretary under Richard Nixon.
“In a Republican administration, there will be even more Mormons here,” whispers the bishop, Lewis Larsen, pointing out prominent Washingtonians around the chapel. “Every Republican administration just loads up with them.”
Regardless of which party controls the White House, Mormonism in Washington has been growing for decades.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
When Larsen arrived in Washington in the early ’80s, there were a just handful of Mormon meetinghouses in northern Virginia, where he lives. Today, there are more than 25, each housing three separate congregations, or wards, as they’re known in the LDS Church.
“There’s been an absolute explosion in Mormon growth inside the beltway,” Larsen says before slipping out of the pew to crank the air conditioning for the swelling crowd.
The LDS Church says there are 13,000 active members within a 10-mile radius of Washington, though the area’s Mormon temple serves a much larger population – 148,000 Latter-day Saints, stretching from parts of South Carolina to New Jersey.
Signs of the local Mormon population boom transcend the walls of the temple and meetinghouses.
Crystal City, a Virginia neighborhood just across the Potomac River from Washington, has become so popular with young Mormons that it’s known as “Little Provo,” after the Utah city that’s home to church-owned Brigham Young University.
Congress now counts 15 Mormon members, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. That means the 2% of the country that’s Mormon is slightly overrepresented on Capitol Hill.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat, is the highest-placed elected Mormon in Washington.
Even many Latter-day Saints joke about Washington’s “Mormon mafia” – referring to the number of well-placed LDS Church members across town – though they cringe at the thought of being seen as part of some cabal. (Echo Hawk, for his part, left the Obama administration a few weeks after his chapel presentation for a job in the LDS Church hierarchy).
“No one talks about Washington being an Episcopalian stronghold or a Jewish stronghold,” says Richard Bushman, a Mormon scholar at Columbia University. Talk of “Mormon Washington,” he says, “represents a kind of surprise that people who were thought of as provincial have turned up in sophisticated power positions.”
Bushman and other experts note that, despite Mormons’ growing political power, the official church mostly steers clear of politics. It’s hard to point to federal legislation or a White House initiative that bears distinctly Mormon fingerprints, while it’s easy to do the same for other faiths.
For example, the White House’s recent “compromise” on a rule that would have required religious groups to fund contraception for employees was mostly a reaction to pressure from Roman Catholic bishops.
Nonetheless, Mormon success in Washington is a testament to distinctly Mormon values, shedding light into the heart of one of America’s fastest-growing religions.
And though the official church is mostly apolitical, most rank-and-file Mormons have linked arms with the GOP. Romney’s own political evolution mirrors that trend.
Such forces help explain why Mormons’ beltway power is poised to grow even stronger in coming years, whether or not Romney wins the White House.
‘A ton of Mormon contacts’
For many Washington Mormons, religion plays a key role in explaining why they’re here.
Larsen, who sports a brown comb-over and tortoise shell glasses, arrived in Washington in the early 1980s as an intern for Hatch, also a Mormon.
He landed the internship courtesy of Brigham Young University, his alma mater. The Mormon school owns a four-story dorm on Pennsylvania Avenue, not too far from the White House, which houses 120 student interns each year. It’s the school’s largest such program in the nation.
“Part of our church’s tradition is to be connected with civic life, to make our communities better,” says BYU’s Scott Dunaway, who helps place students on Capitol Hill, at the Smithsonian and other Washington institutions. “We don’t believe in being reclusive.”
It’s a perfect characterization of Larsen. He grew up in Provo, in the shadow of BYU, and wanted to prove he could make it outside of Utah.
“Kids growing up in the LDS Church have been told, ‘Go ye out in the world and preach the gospel of Christ - don’t be afraid to be an example,’ ” Larsen said, sitting in the glass-doored conference room of the foundation he runs on K Street.
“So we are on our missions, converting people to Christianity,” he continued. “And coming to Washington, for me and probably for a lot of people, came out of that interest. We see it as our career, but also we’re going out to preach the word of Christ.”
For Larsen, that usually means correcting misinformation about Mormonism or explaining Mormon beliefs and practices – you really don’t drink coffee, ever? – over lunch with co-workers or at business functions, rather than on-the-job proselytizing.
He learned about integrating work and faith from Hatch. He was initially shocked to discover that the senator prays in his office each morning. Larsen and Hatch developed what the bishop calls a “father-son” relationship, with the intern rising up through the ranks to become Hatch’s chief Washington fundraiser.
“We would go on trips, and I’d quiz him on the plane: Why did the church do this? Why didn’t the church do this?” Larsen said. “He was like a tutor to me.”
Now, as the head of a foundation that educates teachers about the U.S. Constitution, the bishop helps other young Mormons with job leads and introductions. Larsen was appointed to the role by Hatch and the late U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy.
Much of Washington’s Mormon professional network is still anchored by BYU, which operates a handful of big, well-connected alumni groups with major Washington chapters. The most prominent is BYU’s Management Society, a global organization whose biggest chapter is in Washington.
At the chapter’s recent alumni dinner, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was the guest of honor. She has strong ties to the Mormon community and has hired Mormons as top aides. Says Larsen: “Condi’s got a ton of Mormon contacts.”
Patrice Pederson also knows how to work a Rolodex. A lifelong political activist, she moved from Utah to Washington last year and soon tapped into BYU’s local network.
Pederson served as the U.S.-based campaign manager for Yeah Samake, a Mormon running for president in the West African nation of Mali.
Samake traveled frequently to the U.S. to raise money and build political support, so Pederson enlisted the help of BYU’s Management Society and other groups to host events for the candidate.
Both in Washington and across the U.S., many Mormons are watching his candidacy.
“Members of the church on Capital Hill were anxious to introduce the candidate to other members of Congress,” says Pederson, sipping an herbal tea (Mormons eschew black leaf teas) in a strip mall Starbucks near her apartment in Alexandria, Virginia.
“It’s cool to have a member of the church running for president in Africa.”
Beyond making connections, many Washington Mormons say the LDS Church provides an ideal proving ground for careers here.
Unlike most churches, it has no professional clergy; from the bishop to the organist, each role is filled by everyday Mormons, most of whom have other day jobs. As a result, Mormons take church leadership roles at an early age, speaking publicly at Sunday services almost as soon they learn to talk.
“My kids grew up in the church, and we get together for three hours on Sundays, and each member needs to get up and speak,” says U.S. Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah. “By the time they graduate, they have all these speaking assignments that other teenagers just don’t have.
U.S. Rep. Jason Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, says Mormonism provides ideal training for aspiring politicians.
“For those who grow up in the Mormon church, they are taught skills that allow them to be successful in a tough city like Washington,” says Chaffetz, who converted to Mormonism shortly after college.
Young Mormons also hone leadership skills by serving missions away from home. The missions last from one and half to two years and happen when Mormons are in their late teens and early 20s and often include intensive foreign language training.
“Young Mormons are more formidable in public settings and international settings than others,” says Terryl Givens, a Mormon scholar at the University of Richmond. “Normally you would have to acquire more age and work experience before you feel comfortable and useful at NGOs and think tanks.”
Chaffetz, whose son is serving a mission in Ghana, says the experience is the perfect preparation for political careers.
“They learn rejection early on,” he says. “If you’re going to be in politics, that’s a pretty good attribute.”
Christina Tomlinson served her mission in nonexotic Fresno, California. But working with the Laotian community there, she acquired the foreign language skills that landed her first internship at the U.S. State Department.
“I look back at that and it’s nothing but divine providence,” Tomlinson says one night at an office building-turned-chapel in Crystal City, after a weekly discussion about Mormon teachings. “I would have never made those choices.”
When she arrived at her foreign service orientation in the late 1990s, Tomlinson was surprised to find that a half-dozen of her State Department colleagues were also Mormon. The thriving LDS community at State even runs its own e-mail list server so Latter-day Saints can find each other wherever in the world they’re stationed.
Like former presidential candidate Jon Huntsman, who used the Mandarin language skills acquired through a Mormon mission to Taiwan to help secure his job as President Barack Obama’s previous ambassador to China, Tomlinson leveraged her mission to get ahead at State, where she now serves as special assistant to the U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan.
“I’m basically the chief of staff for the president’s representative charged with implementing U.S. foreign policy towards Afghanistan and Pakistan,” she e-mailed on a recent plane ride back from the region.
Language skills acquired on a Mormon mission helped Christina Tomlinson get her start at the State Department.
At the point of a bayonet
Like many Mormons, Tomlinson says her professional life is driven by a faith-based patriotism that sounds old-fashioned to modern ears: “I just really wanted to serve my country.”
But that distinctly Mormon patriotism was hard-won. From their very beginning, Mormons had tried to forge a special relationship with Washington. And for decades, they failed.
Joseph Smith, who founded Mormonism in the 1830s, petitioned the U.S. government to protect his fledgling religious community from the violent persecution it was experiencing, even meeting repeatedly with President Martin Van Buren.
But Washington refused, provoking Smith – who Mormons consider their founding prophet – to run for president himself in 1844. He was assassinated by an anti-Mormon mob in Illinois well before Election Day.
In the face of such attacks, Mormons fled west, to the territory that’s now Utah. But they continued to seek ties with Washington, dispatching representatives to the capital to lobby for statehood.
Congress refused to grant it. Instead, Uncle Sam disincorporated the LDS Church and sent the U.S. Army to police Mormon territory.
In the eyes of Washington, Latter-day Saints were flouting federal law by practicing polygamy. The feds saw the LDS Church as an undemocratic rival government that threatened Washington’s power.
Joseph Smith, Mormonism’s founding prophet, ran for president in 1844 but was killed before Election Day.
Mormons would eventually ban polygamy, paving the way for Utah statehood in 1896. But Congress nonetheless refused to seat the new state’s Mormon senator, who also served as a top church official.
For four years, the U.S. Senate held hearings to grill U.S. Sen. Reed Smoot and other church leaders, alleging that Mormons continued to practice polygamy despite promises to the contrary.
“The political trial was as much a galvanizing cultural moment as was Watergate,” says Kathleen Flake, a scholar of Mormonism at Vanderbilt University in Tenneessee.
When Smoot was eventually seated – after the LDS Church took further steps to stamp out polygamy – he managed to become a Washington powerbroker. He would chair the Senate Finance Committee and act as a presidential adviser.
“He was Mr. Republican,” says Flake. “For a while there, he was the Republican Party.”
Smoot’s unflagging pursuit of legitimacy in Washington, despite the city’s bias against him and his faith, symbolizes what many call a uniquely Mormon appreciation for American civic life. It helps explain the Mormon fascination with Washington to this day.
It may seen counterintuitive, but Mormons’ early exposure to persecution at the hands of other Americans – aided, Mormons say, by the U.S. government – wound up strengthening their patriotic streak.
In the face of attacks, Mormons clung to the U.S. Constitution and its unprecedented guarantee of religious freedom. They distinguished between the document and those charged with implementing it.
Mormon scripture goes so far as to describe the U.S. Constitution as divinely inspired, establishing a unique environment in which Mormonism could emerge.
“Mormons are superpatriots,” says Columbia University’s Bushman. “Joseph Smith said that if the government was doing its job as laid out in the Constitution, it would protect Mormons from their enemies.”
Mormons began to shed their Utah-only siege mentality and fanned out in the early part of the 20th century. Their patriotic streak, which translated into military enlistments and applications for government jobs, led many to Washington.
That wave included J. Willard Marriott, the hotel chain founder, who launched his business career by opening an A&W root beer stand here. He would go on to forge the kind of deep political connections that would help make Willard “Mitt” Romney his namesake.
Washington’s Mormon community got another boost in the 1950s when President Dwight Eisenhower appointed a top church official, Ezra Taft Benson, as his agriculture secretary.
“Mormons took it as a sign of maybe, just maybe, we’re being accepted,” says Flake. “It signified a cultural acceptance of Mormonism. People thought Mormons believed weird things, but also that they were self-reliant, moral and good neighbors.”
As Mormons became more accepted, they became more upwardly mobile, landing in parts of the country that could sustain careers in commerce, academia and government - another reason Washington was a big draw.
By the time there were enough Mormons in the eastern U.S. to justify the construction of the first Mormon temple east of the Mississippi River, the church chose a site just outside Washington.
The temple opened in 1974, shortly after another high-profile Mormon – George Romney, Mitt’s father – left his post as Richard Nixon’s secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
“The Washington temple served as a symbol of the triumphant return of Mormonism to the east,” says Givens, the University of Richmond professor. “Mormons left from the point of a bayonet in the 1800s and the temple is this gigantic symbol that says ‘We’re back – and we’re back in the nation’s capital.’ ”
The Mormon temple outside Washington was the first such temple built east of the Mississippi River.
Unlike Mormon meetinghouses, where members meet for Sunday worship, temples are grander buildings reserved for certain rites, such as proxy baptisms for the dead.
To this day, the first monument many Washington visitors see isn’t a federal landmark. It’s the massive Mormon temple, its Georgian marble towers and gold-leafed spires looming above the trees on the Washington Beltway like an otherworldly castle.
The temple houses a J. Willard Marriott-financed mural of Jesus Christ’s second coming, which features a picture of the Washington temple itself in the background.
“Are you implying that the millennium will begin in Washington?” a temple visitor once asked Marriott, referring to Jesus’ return.
Replied Marriott: “What better place is there?”
Good at organizing
These days, the Mormon impulse toward Washington is often as much political as patriotic.
Patrice Pederson - the campaign manager for the Mormon running for president in Mali - made her first foray into politics at 15, hopping the bus from her home in the suburbs of Salt Lake City into town to intern with a Republican candidate for the U.S. House.
“I remember that when Bill Clinton was elected, I wore all black to school that day,” says Pederson, who was in junior high at the time. “I was mourning the death of liberty.”
When then-Vice President Al Gore visited Utah, Pederson protested his speech with a homemade poster that said “Blood, Guts & Gore – Healthcare’94.” (She can’t recall the poster’s exact meaning).
Pederson’s activism as a “total hardcore right-winger” continued into her 20s. She put off college at BYU to start a “pro-family” advocacy group aimed at lobbying foreign governments and the United Nations. The work brought her to Washington so frequently that she decided to relocate last year: “I had more friends here than in Utah.”
Pederson’s path to D.C. speaks to the growing Mormon/Republican alliance since the 1960s, driven largely by the emergence of social issues such as abortion and gay marriage and the rise of the Christian Right.
“In the 1950s and ’60s, Utah became Republican,” says Bushman. “It’s partly about being anti-communist, but it’s also a response to the 1960s and the decay of old-fashioned moral virtues. It’s an anti-1960s movement, and the Republicans seemed to be the party of old-fashioned virtues.”
Pederson’s roommate, Kodie Ruzicka, grew up squarely in that movement, with her mom heading the Utah chapter of Eagle Forum, a conservative Christian group founded by rightwing icon Phyllis Schlafly.
In the 1970s, when the Catholic Schlafly led a successful grassroots campaign against the Equal Rights Amendment, which would have made gender-based discrimination unconstitutional, she enlisted the help of Mormons.
To its opponents, including the LDS Church, the ERA was the work of radical feminists who wanted to upend traditional gender roles.
Much of Schlafly’s organizing was among evangelicals, and “given the sometimes hostile evangelical line on Mormons, [Schlafly’s] Mormon outreach was kind of revolutionary,” says Ruzicka, who now works at the Justice Department. “But we’re good at organizing, and we have a lot of useful structures for it, so that was useful to her.”
Today, Mormons head Eagle Forum chapters across the West, including California, Arizona and Nevada, as well as Utah.
Bridge-building between Mormons and the conservative movement helps explain the Reagan administration’s push to hire many Mormons into the White House - which further cemented the alliance. That bond continues to lure Mormons to D.C.
Ruzicka, for one, continued in the political footsteps of her mother, arriving in Washington in her mid-20s to lead a nonprofit that promotes safe haven laws, which allow young mothers to legally abandon young children at fire stations.
Beyond hot-button social issues, U.S. Rep. Chaffetz says the Mormon faith engenders support for limited government.
“The church is very adamant about personal responsibility, and for people to voluntarily participate in service,” the Utah Republican says. “There’s this feeling that service is not something that should be mandated by government.”
The LDS Church, for its part, insists it is politically neutral and that it avoids pressuring Mormon elected officials to tow a church line. “The church’s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians,” the church’s website says.
Mormon experts say the church’s support for a relatively strict separation of church and state is born of the U.S. government’s refusal to help Mormons in the face of early persecution.
And after being accused of setting up a rival government around the turn of the last century, the church is loath to be seen giving marching orders to LDS politicians.
The church did, however, play a leading role in passing Prop 8, California’s gay marriage ban, in 2008. Church officials called it a moral cause, not a political one.
Plenty of critics disagree. But neither Mormon bishops nor church officials are known to lead the kind of church-based legislative lobbying efforts that Catholic bishops or evangelical leaders do.
Mitt Romney himself embodies the reluctance of Mormon politicians to connect their religion and their public policy positions, in contrast to politicians of other faiths.
That reluctance also appears to be born of anxiety over Americans’ lingering questions and doubts about Mormonism. When Pew asked Americans last year what word they associated with the Mormon faith, the most common response was “cult.”
In recent weeks, Romney’s newfound position as the presumptive Republican presidential nominee has produced a mix of excitement and worry among Mormons. That’s especially true in Washington, where politically savvy Latter-day Saints send out frequent e-mail round-ups of Mormon media coverage to their LDS networks.
“A lot of us know it’s ultimately a good thing, but it’s hard to feel like it’s a good thing because so much of the publicity is about things you wouldn’t talk about in polite company, like my underwear,” says Pederson, referring to the enduring fascination with Mormon undergarments.
Like many conservatives, Pederson is suspicious of Romney.
“I don’t like his waffling, to put it gently, on life and family issues,” she says. “But if it comes down to Romney versus Obama, hand me the pom-poms. I’ll be president of the Romney-Is-the-Best-We-Can-Come-Up-With-for-President Club.”
For now, Pederson is working with the National Right to Life Committee’s political action committee to raise money for the Romney effort, even as she makes up her mind about how actively she wants to promote his candidacy.
Some of her calculus is about weighing political reality against her conservative idealism. And some of it is about her next professional move. It’s a very Washington place to be.
– Video by CNN photojournalist Jeremy Moorhead
NEWS ALERT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!->>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Putting the kibosh to all religions:
ONLY FOR NEWCOMERS
• There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
Is Romney and Mormonism anti-science?
If so, he will control nuclear weapons and lead science policy as POTUS down the drain.
Mormonism is not Christianity. It is a cult and a disgusting one at that.
BY DEFINITION, ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS.
MORMONISM IS JUST ONE OF THE TOP TWO WORST OF ALL TIME.
You ideology is a false one. America is a Christian nation founded by Christians for Christians based on Christian principles. You need to get right with Jesus and respect that.
Also this "warcraft" game you name uses is well known to be a danger to kids and also has links to occultism and much worse. I hope your parents are aware that you play this. Its not a happy lifestyle when you see wherre long exposure leads.
it hurt my hear to see another fellow man believing the lie of jesus christ THINK ABOUT IT god holy spirit is the whole universe everything planets black holes suns galaxies now try fitting all of that into sickly flesh and bone human THEY WOULD EXPLODE!!! all of that power they would burn up just like a sun second jesus christ false prophet of new testament was FABRICATED BY WICKED HATE FILLED PRIESTS NEST OF VIPERS to give humanity FALSE DOCTRINE MESSAGE OF NEW TESTAMENT FALSE PROPHET JESUS CHRIST NOT SON OF GOD HOLY SPIRIT by sowing deception and lies and trickery during dark ages regarding jesus christ making them confused and muddled to true nature of god holy spirit as depicted in jewish islam faith as well as many oriental religions i pray to god holy spirit that this false prophet message be lifted from your heart
If your talking about Mormonism, your absolutely right. It is little more than false prophecy, particualrly their idea that Jesus and God were of flesh and blood, which the Bible absolutely refutes but the Mormons believe. It's utterly absurd and a generation ago it would have been criminal.
I DON'T PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT, ASSHOLE.
CHRISTIANITY IS JUST AS MUCH OF A CULT AS ALL THE OTHER CULTS. YOU KNOW, SINCE BY DEFINITION, ALL RELIGIONS = CULTS.
[kuhlt] Show IPA
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
the object of such devotion.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
THERE YOU HAVE IT. HEY, IF YOU THINK AMERICA IS A CULT NATION FOUNDED BY MEMBERS OF A CULT, WHATEVER. I REALLY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Please don't insult the faith of billions of people around the globe with your juvenile name calling and pathetic attempts at intellligence.You should be ashamed of yourself.
Angry enough Warcraft?
I fear for children like that, Eliza. This is the sort of person who was unleashed on Norway or Columbine.
"I DON'T PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT, "
Doesn't matter if you do or don't. Stories like the one Stephenson spewed have gone on for years and years and years, with no basis for such claims. It is no different then back in the 70's and 80's when these dolts believed that if you played Pink Floyd's album The Wall backwards you'd hear subliminal messages. You're either going to be a monster in this world or you're not. People who speak of stupid garbage like that do not have the slightest comprehension of how brain chemicals work. Just ignore him, he has come here before and tried to no avail to convert. He has himself has no way of knowing with 100% certainty that a god exists or ever did.
Sorry, but video games have been proven time and again to cause a host of illnesses and mental disorders including obseity, suicide, murder and worse. Simply search google and the results are endless.
Columbine was anarchists. Norway was a religious zealot. See what religion does to you?
Sorry pal, you know next to nothing about true journalism. Yoiung people are easily influenced by video games but because it's a billion dollar industry the lamestream media won't tell you the TRUTH. Predictable that liberals like you buy into any half baked cause. "If it feels right, do it" seems to be the motto of you peiople in Obama's America. Well, tell that to the ethnics who have babies out of wedlock and all the problems with crack.
Stephen you are a lost soul in the Mormon zone.
If you have not noticed, a lot of these attacks are Mormons and ex Mormons going after it.
So let's get to your lame game.
you are a righteous conservative Christian out to tell these Mormons their religion is bunk.
Regardless you know your duty, Republican. You can do it, vote Romney.
Don't worry the Mormons will baptize you after you are dead, then you will be Mormon Christian.
Blame it all on Obama, that is all you got.
INSULTS ARE JUST A WAY OF LIFE. DEAL WITH IT. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE IT, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULDN'T BE ON THIS PLANET. I FIND IT HUMOROUSLY IRONIC THAT YOU CRIED OVER BEING INSULTED BUT PASSIVELY AGGRESSIVELY MADE A FAILED AND POINTLESS ATTEMPT TO INSULT ME BY CALLING ME A CHILD. THAT IS FUNNY! YOU'RE STILL A MORON.
WELCOME TO REALITY.
AS FOR VIDEO GAMES, HA!!! I DID PLENTY OF RESEARCH ON THIS IN COLLEGE. OH MY OH MY. VIDEO GAMES ARE ACTUALLY SIMILAR TO MANY OTHER EXTERNAL STIMULI. MANY PEOPLE SIMPLY USE VIDEO GAMES AS A SCAPE GOAT. JUST LIKE THEY USED MTV AS A SCAPE GOAT. MUCH OF THE RESEARCH I DID FOUND THAT THE MAJORITY OF STUDIES ARE BIASED IN ATTEMPTS TO PROVE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THE POSITIVES AND THE NEGATIVES OF VIDEO GAMES.
ME, I DON'T PLAY THEM. I FELT THIS NAME WOULD ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF MONGREL RETARDS THAT WOULD HAVE NO OTHER MEANS OF ATTACK. IT SURE DID DRAW YOUR ATTENTION : ) DID I MENTION I DID VERY, VERY WELL IN PSYCHOLOGY? ONE OF MY BEST SUBJECTS.
@stephensonbillings: Wow, you are beyond wrong! As for children born out of wedlock...what the hell are you talking about? My daughter was born out of wedlock and is a great person....a month off of being a high school graduate, doesn't do drugs/drink/smoke; no criminal record; no belief in god and best yet, off to college in the fall...so don't sit here and spew your lies. As for the video game issue, not all kids are that weak minded...some are able to separate fiction from reality. The government would not be tolerating such games if they were really the leading cause of the issues you mentioned. On the other hand, it is a well known fact that people like you who spew bigotry towards people who are gay are bullies and part of the reason those people commit suicide.
ACCORDING TO THE MORMON CULT, BLACK SKIN IS A CURSE, BUT IT CAN BE CURED!!
MICHAEL JACKSON MUST HAVE REPENTED TO JOSEPH SMITH HIMSELF FOR ALL OF HIS TRANSGRESSIONS AND SINS AND THINGS.
PRAISES BE TO THE ALMIGHTY FRAUD JOSEPH SMITH! BLESSED ARE THE BULLETS IN JOSEPH SMITH'S CORPSE. AMEN.
You can be as insulting as you like, especially while you're safe behind the anonymity of the internet. But you're just coming across as childish especially with typing in all caps. But by all means go right ahead and insult me if it makes you feel good about yourself. People did the same thing to the Savior and, as He said in John 15:18 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you." I know that the Savior loves me and that knowledge makes it much easier to forgive those who hate me for no reason.
YAY IT'S BIBLE SCRIPTURE TIME!!
"And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." –Mark 9:1 (KJV)
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." –Matthew 16:28 (KJV)
GUESS HE'S A LITTLE LATE, RIGHT? EVEN THOUGH THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS JESUS' OWN WORDS BY SAYING NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR EXCEPT FOR THE FATHER. YET STRANGELY, JESUS SEEMED TO HAVE "KNOWN." OF COURSE, HE EITHER DIDN'T REALLY KNOW, OR HE JUST PLAIN LIED : ) JESUS IS SO AWESOME!
YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GOING TO QUOTE HATE IN THE BIBLE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO POST ONE OF THE MANY LOVELY, WARM AND CUDDLY BIBLE SCRIPTURES LIKE THIS ONE:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
THE WORST YOU GET IS PEOPLE MAKING FUN OF YOU. AND THEN YOU CRY ABOUT PERSECUTION. BUT THE BIBLE COMMANDS YOU TO MURDER GAY PEOPLE. YOU STILL THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT, OH LITTLE PERSECUTED ONE? WHY DO YOUR KIND LIKE TO CLAIM PERSECUTION SO MUCH?
OH, AND JESUS DOESN'T LIKE BLACK PEOPLE. AT ALL.
"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them." (2 Nephi 5:21).
GOD GIVES PEOPLE HE DOESN'T LIKE THE BLACKNESS AS A CURSE. HEY. IT'S FROM ONE OF YOUR BOOKS. JUST WANTED TO JOIN IN ON THE SCRIPTURE PARADE.
This is addressed to the coward who uses the handle of " I AM THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT."
You are a coward. You say many things without saying who you really are. You should change your handle to "I AM THE COWARD OF THE WORLD" because that is what you are. If you are in fact genuine in your comments you'd put your name and city in your remarks. I did. My name is Rick and I live in Rota. I'm calling you a fake and a coward.
I DO BELIEVE IT IS TIME FOR JOE HARRIS TO RECEIVE THE JOSEPH SMITH FOREHEAD MUSHROOM STAMP OF APPROVAL AWARD FOR BLIND SHEEPERSHIP INTO THE CULT OF THE DARK WIND.
ALL PRAISES TO MAGIC UNDERWEAR AND GOLD TABLETS AND MAGIC ROCKS THAT ALLOW MYSTICAL PROPHET DEAD GUY WITH BULLETS IN HIM THAT HE DESERVED JOE SMITH TO TRANSLATE EGYPTIAN WRITING INTO OTHER MAGICAL BOOK AND AMEN. BALLS. NUTS.
TO: I AM THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT."
Bishop Romney should NOT HAVE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY over the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX!
If you do not understand basic science and are fundamentally opposed to it on religious grounds, why should you control the most powerful weapon derived from science, which is the most powerful weapon created by humanity?
Anybody out there knows what this letter means?
Seems like there are some internal LDS problems about science and the Book of Mormon.
BoM takes precedence over physical realty, science is fundamentally wrong.
There you go posting that letter again as if posting it over and over lends it legitimacy. Is that really the only thing you have to say? Because I've had dozens and dozens of people launch attacks at my faith and I know there's a lot more out there. Not that any of them succeed in seriously casting any doubt on me, my faith, or even God in general. Like Joseph Smith, I know what I know and I know that God knows it, and I will not deny it.
YOU THINK YOU KNOW SOMETHING. BUT YOU DON'T.
THAT IS A REALLY GOOD LETTER. IT ASKS LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS THAT MORMONS REFUSE TO ANSWER!
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION OR DOUBT THAT THE MORMON CULT IS 100% FRAUDULENT. PROVEN TIME AND AGAIN. : D
Joe you say all these people launch attacks on your religion.
I get the impression most of the attacks are coming from exmormons and soon to be exmormons.
Why is that? Does not give a lot of confidence in your religion. I find all this pent up rage by Mormons against Mormons quite strange.
mormons are known collaborators with homosexual agenda even going so far as to culture HIV PLUS TERETIARY PNEUMONIA WORST LINGERING DEATH IN BODIES OF MORMON LIE WICKED BELIEVERS look at an mormon living in salt lake city utah usa ares all sickly and weak organs failing TEMPLE GARMENTS IE HIGH HOLY WRAPS OF SERPENT FALSE GOD DEMON IDOL are used to incubate within bodies in hopes of creatinng viral weapon STRONGER THAN ALL CURRENT MEDECINES AND INNOCULATIONS NO HOPE FOR SURVIVAL WORST LINGERING DEATH look at mormon celebrity marie osmond she claims trim and fit figure due to success of weight watchers program THIS IS A COVER STORY TRUE EVENTS she is infected with HIV PLUS TERETIARY PNUEMONIA WORST LINGERING DEATH wasting away skeleton skin and bones hair falling out of face after accidently exposure upon recent trip to mormon temple inner chamber UNCLEAN SANCTUM KINGDOM OF DEVILS TEMPLE OF SIN
Stake President Thomas Phillip's resignation & demand letter to The 9th senior apostle on the LDS Board of Directors
May 2, 2012
So, my request to you Elder Holland is to either
1. Demonstrate to me that the Book of Mormon is true by answering and refuting the ‘evidences’ against its truthfulness mentioned later in this letter ( you claim in your talk it has not been proven false in over 179 years) or
2. Admit, for the benefit of my family and hosts of others, it is (in your words) a fraud or
3. At least admit there were errors in your talk (you specify which ones) and apologise to genuine truth seekers regarding the offensive comments you made that they would have to ‘crawl over...etc.’
Some background info on the Prophet Holland
Jeffrey Roy Holland (born December 3, 1940) is an American educator and religious leader. He served as the ninth President of Brigham Young University and is a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). As a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, Holland is accepted by the LDS Church as a prophet, seer, and revelator. Currently, he is the ninth most senior apostle among the ranks of the Church.
I really don't know what you're trying to prove with this quote. You have a single stake president out of the 3,000+ stake presidents that has decided to leave the church and has some "questions" that he'd like to see answered.
WOW. FOR SOMEONE IN THE MORMON CULT, YOU SURE DON'T SEEM CONCERNED ABOUT SUPPLYING ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS.
JUST KIDDING. WE AREN'T SHOCKED AT ALL THAT YOU CAN NOT AND NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ANSWERS. WHY IS YOUR CULT RUN LIKE A CORPORATION ANYWAY? I THOUGHT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALREADY HAD THAT ONE NAILED DOWN.
YOU SHOULD BE RIGHTFULLY EMBARRASSED, JOE HARRIS, FOR YOUR MEMBERSHIP OF SUCH A STUPID CULT WHICH HAS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND AGAIN FRAUDULENT. RIGHTFULLY EMBARRASSED YOU SHOULD BE. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED AS A HUMAN BEING FOR BELIEVING IN SUCH LUNACY. EVER THOUGHT ABOUT GETTING PUT ON ANTIPSYCHOTICS? IT MIGHT HELP.
THE MORMON CULT IS EQUALLY AS FAR FETCHED AS SCIENTOLOGY. AND JUST AS STUPID.
Joe Harris, your stated claim that you do not understand, sums it up. You don't get it. Get someone at LDS to explain it, maybe Prophet Holland's assistant can give you better game.
What I stated is that I don't understand what you're trying to prove with this quote. Do YOU understand my question? You repeatedly quote this single letter from one person as if it were some great and amazing thing, when all it is is a single letter from a single angry person.
What do you think this letter proves? It proves nothing.
JOE HARRIS. PUT UP, OR SHUT UP.
YOUR CULT IS TRASH.
Ok Joe Harris, I am back trying to help.
Once upon a time this religion called the Catholic Church burned some scientists for believing the earth is not the center of the universe, the earth goes around the sun. What do Mormons think about the earth and sun?
Now you may have heard of this guy called Galileo, he was the top scientist in Italy 500 years ago, about one 12th the age of the universe Mormon time. Now the church threatened to burn him at the stake if he did not shut up, plus they could damn him to hell for going against this other guy called the pope.
The moral of the story is when religion tries to falsify science to make it fit dogma, such as Book of Mormon, very bad things happen. So if you control the most powerful weapon derived from science, and you do not believe science is real because religion tells you to ignore it, well, very, very, very bad things can happen. So better people need to be in charge of these weapons so things don't go KABOOM, causing countries to do the same.
I think you understand, safety first. Good news is, that after 500 years Galileo got a pardon and will not be sent to hell for making a pope mad. Happy ending for Galileo. The US and world wants a happy ending too, so that is why Bishop Willard must not be POTUS, this way he will never be in conflict between his religion and science which it does not believe is real.
Christ taught in John 15: "16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you." Christ intended that he, himself, would be at the head of his church through revelation. That is why a man must be chosen of God through revelation to represent him and to preach his holy word – a thing that protestant churches totally lack because they apostatized from the Catholic church and which the catholic church cannot claim either because the first pope was a bishop, not an apostle, and to this day can claim no authority from living apostles.
I HAVE GAS.
You do know that "John" NEVER met jesus, and had no way of confirming anything that was said 40 years after jesus died, IF he ever existed in the first place. What he wrote was 2nd generation (or later) hearsay. Why is it that not a single person who walked and talked with your jesus guy wrote a single word down as it was said, or at least the same day it was said? Must not have been that important at the time.
Mirosal, I'm curious as to which religious figures you think people followed around writing down everything they said as it was being said.
As it is, you're ignoring the fact that the Bible is divine. It isn't accomplished by the power of man. It is well within the power of God to grant any prophet the power to write down things accurately regardless of when they were said or even if the prophet was there at the time. Moses wasn't in the garden of Eden but that doesn't mean that the book of Genesis is wrong. The scriptures, including the Bible and the Book of Mormon, are the word of God, not the word of man. And we know their truthfullness by the Spirit of God, not by the arguments and philosophies of man.
Now I remember, you are an athiest. Well, that shows what you know.
You said "the fact that the bible is divine" How is it a fact? Tell me exactly HOW it is a fact? So you believe that the entire human race was started by TWO and only two specimens. Uh-huh.. good luck trying to create a viable chain with that. Then there's that little planetary flood. Yes, your book says world-wide. It's a physical impossibility. Just WHERE did the waters recede when it was all said and done? You think "Moses" wrote those first five books, is that correct?
Mirasol, you are an atheist! You know nothing about spiritual things! How can you comment?
I had over a decade of religious schooling. I can comment all I like. I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, then I OUTGREW that t-shirt and started to see life without the blinders of religious oppression. It's amazing what you can see when the lights come on, and realize just how badly religion wants to keep you in the dark.
Can you at least TRY to show a little intelligence by spelling my screen name properly?
Really Mirosal? Trying to insult someone because they spelled your name wrong? LOL. All I can say is wow.
Joe, I'm atill waiting for you to tell me exactly HOW is that book divine? If your answer is going to be "Because it says so in the book", you'd better think of another answer, because that one isn't going to cut it.
JOE HARRIS IS A TOOL.
PAY NO MIND TO HIS MORMON STUPIDITY. WITH THE MOUNTAIN OF READILY AVAILABLE AND FACTUAL INFORMATION THAT PROVES THE MORMON CULT TO BE A FRAUDULENT CORPORATION, YOU CAN'T REALLY BLAME THE GUY FOR MAKING RETARDED STATEMENTS. AFTER ALL, IF HE'S STUPID ENOUGH TO IGNORE REALITY, HE WON'T EVER GET ANYTHING ELSE RIGHT.
I'm sorry if I made you wait Mirosal. I expected such an experienced scholar as yourself to have a little more patience. But that's okay. As it is, this website doesn't seem to be doing a good job of posting what I am writing.
We know the scriptures to be divine the same way that we know God to exist, by our feelings, by the Holy Ghost, and by observation of the world and universe.
So here’s how my typical conversation goes with an atheist.
Atheist: I’ve never seen God.
Me: Well, you’re just one person.
A: No one has ever seen Him!
Me: A lot of people have. I’ve seen God with my own eyes.
A: Oh yeah?!?! What did He look like?!
Me: Male, radiant beyond all description, beard, wearing a robe.
A: Well you’re delusional!
And then they walk away because that's all they've got.
It doesn't matter to YOU Mirosal what I believe or what I know. You've made up your mind and no amount of logic will make you change your mind. In the end, time is on my side, as you will someday die and find out that God does indeed exist.
YOU GOT IT WRONG.
LOGIC WON'T CHANGE YOUR MIND. WE USE LOGIC. YOU DO NOT. LOGIC PROVES THE MORMON CULT IS FRAUDULENT, AS IT WAS FOUNDED BY A CRIMINAL.
AS FOR YOUR WHITE BEARD AND MAGICAL EYES STUPIDITY, USING THE BIBLE AS A REFERENCE ISN'T GOING TO HELP. YOU'VE NEVER SEEN GOD. YOU'RE USING A BIBLICAL DESCRIPTION. IF NO SUCH DESCRIPTION EXISTED, YOU WOULD BE MAKING UP ANOTHER BS CLAIM.
THE CULT OF MORMON HAS TO BE THE SECOND MOST RETARDED RELIGION OUT THERE, SECOND ONLY TO SCIENTOLOGY. BUT YOU'RE AWFULLY CLOSE. PAINFULLY CLOSE. MORMONISM IS GRINDING IT'S FRAUDULENT PELVIS AGAINST THE BACKSIDE OF SCIENTOLOGY. THAT'S HOW CLOSE THEY ARE.
IT BLOWS MY BALLS THAT SUCH AN OBVIOUSLY FRAUDULENT CULT MANAGES TO PULL IN AT LEAST A DOZEN NEW MEMBERS A YEAR (JUST FYI, DON'T LET THE CLAIMS OF GROWTH FOOL YOU, THEY'RE BS JUST LIKE WHAT SCIENTOLOGY CLAIMS). MY NIECE IS IN COLLEGE IN UTAH RIGHT NOW, AND THE STORIES SHE HAS ARE HILARIOUS!
FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT 100% GIVE OR TAKE 0% OF THE MORMONS IN COLLEGE ARE BANGING EACH OTHER LIKE CRAZY. IT'S LIKE A INCEST PARTY. THERE'S THAT AND PLENTY OF THE MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES FLOATING AROUND TOO. FUNNY THING, MY NIECE IS AN ATHEIST. AND SHE'S THE ONE WITH THE MORALS. HAHAHAHA HER ROOMMATES HAVE TRIED TO CONVERT HER, AND SHE'S WALKED IN ON THE SAME GIRLS BANGING DIFFERENT GUYS NIGHT AFTER NIGHT. MORMONS SURE ARE PURE!
I BET ALL THOSE MORMON KIDS SPREADING STD'S AROUND TO EACH OTHER WILL LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH DURING INTERROGATIONS BY THE CHURCH BEFORE THEY FIND SOMEONE TO SETTLE DOWN WITH.
Look up Pascal's Wager, ok? Every society thinks their god(s) is/are real. To date, not one piece of verifiable evidence has been submitted. One does not need to believe in any deity to view the world, let alone the universe, with awe and wonder. Why is the sky blue? What makes that star red? Why are plants green? One only needs to question the "why", then look for the answer. That is how you learn. All religions tell you "god did it" or "god gave us the knowledge to find out". Those are cop-outs. You said you know the scriptures to be true in the same way you know your god is real. Out of the thousands upopn thousands of gods worshipped over thousands of years, what makes YOUR god any more real than Odin, or Osiris?
Joe, if in fact your jesus guy did exist, you know he was NOT white, right?
Mirasol, so you see the salt? I call you Mirasol because I think you have been gazing into the SUN! Mirasol, you demand respect, yet you give none. Give some respect then, maybe, you will get some.
Joe wrote, " As it is, you're ignoring the fact that the Bible is divine."
If your bible is divine, why is it so full of things that are plain wrong?
Bishop Romney should NOT have ultimate authority over the US NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX!!!
A Mormon POTUS inherently believes the following:
Big problem in Book of Mormon, LDS believes science is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong and the world is 6000 years old.
Excerpt, 2nd May 2012 letter, Stake President Thomas Phillips resignation to Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
THERE WAS NO DEATH ON THIS EARTH PRIOR TO APPROX 6,000 YEARS AGO AND SCIENTISTS ARE WRONG BECAUSE THEY ARE CONTRADICTING THE WORD OF THE LORD.
I've got no idea where you're getting this baloney from. Elder Dallin H. Oaks, an apostle of the church, has stated that we have three great tools for understanding out world, science, the scriptures, and revelation. Science is our tool for understanding the physical world and the scriptures and revelation help us understand the spiritual world and sometimes the physical world too. The LDS church has a higher % of members with college degrees than any other church that I am aware of. So, try to think about a few facts, not a bunch of heresay and quotes taken out of context (or completely made up.) Anyone who thinks the Bible teaches that the world is only 6,000 years old doesn't know much about the Bible. The Bible isn't a record of the world, it is simply the record of one branch of humanity (the Hebrew people) and their dealings with God.
So, you can keep listening to what a bunch of people who are angry and have left the church have to say, or you can go to mormon.org and find out what we actually believe. Or just pick up a Book of Mormon and stop taking people's word for what it says.
Do not be a hater Joe Harris. Restore, let me help you find this baloney.
Anybody out there knows what this letter means?
Is this the fallen keystone to take down the arch?
JOE HARRIS, YOUR CULT IS REALLY SCREWED UP. EVER SIT IN A ROOM WITH OTHER CHURCH MEMBERS WHILE SOMEONE IS GRILLED ABOUT WHO THEY'VE BANGED? I HAVE. THAT'S WHAT YOUR CHURCH DOES. PEOPLE WHO LEAVE THE CHURCH AREN'T AFRAID TO SPEAK UP ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT. IT'S A REAL PAIN IN THE BALLS GETTING YOUR NAME REMOVED FROM CHURCH RECORDS AS WELL. THEY HOLD ONTO IT LIKE THEIR LIVES DEPEND ON IT.
THE BIBLE STATES THAT CREATION TOOK 6 DAYS. THE BIBLE THEN GOES ON TO SAY THAT TO GOD A DAY IS LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS TO HUMANS. THAT'S WHERE THE 6,000 YEAR THEORY COMES FROM. IF YOU READ THE BIBLE YOU'D KNOW THIS. IF YOU READ THE BIBLE, YOU'D ALSO KNOW THAT THERE IS A SEVERE PROBLEM WITH JESUS' RETURN DUE TO THE TIMING JESUS CLAIMED. THIS ALONE ALSO SHATTERED THE MORMON CULT'S DOCTRINE. JESUS NEVER COULD HAVE MADE IT TO THE UNITED STATES ANYWAY. HE'S BEEN DEAD FOR 2,000 YEARS. AND THAT'S IF HE REALLY EXISTED AT ALL.
THERE'S PLENTY OF FACTUAL INFORMATION AVAILABLE THAT PROVES WHAT THE MORMON CULT IS. IT IS A FRAUD. NOTHING MORE. SO PLEASE STOP TRYING TO DEFEND IT. WE ALL KNOW IT'S A RELIGION FOR IDIOTS THAT IGNORE THE OBVIOUS. AT LEAST WITH CHRISTIANITY, ONE HAS TO DO A LITTLE DIGGING TO SEE THAT IT'S SCREWED UP. WITH MORMONISM ON THE OTHER HAND.... LOL.... IT MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A SIGN POSTED OUTSIDE OF EVERY CHURCH THAT READS, "OUR FOUNDER WAS A FRAUD. COME ON IN IF YOU'RE STILL STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE IN OUR FAITH."
Who would I be "hating" Orwell? The guy who wrote that letter? I haven't even met him and I'm not going to judge him based on only one thing. You? Again, I haven't even met you and I'm sure you have many fine qualities. You can call me a "hater" if you like, you can call me whatever insults you like, it doesn't prove anything.
NONE OF US NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND BELIEVE IN A FRAUDULENT CULT. THE FACTS PROVE IT'S FRAUDULENT. SO, UH, WHY DO YOU KEEP BELIEVING IN IT? IS IT STUPIDITY OR FEAR? OR A MIXTURE OF BOTH? HAS TO BE BOTH. NO OTHER EXPLANATION. SUCKS TO BE YOU. HARD.
So here we have an article that is very well written, presents an un-biased view of things, and seeks to educate people on a particular subject.
And then you read the comment and all the un-educated bigots shouting angry accusations and abuses at the Mormon faith and you wonder why anyone even bothers.
But hope springs eternal! We just keep being the people that we are and hope that eventually people will open their eyes and stop listening to rumors and hearsay and take an honest look at how we live our lives and perhaps judge us by our actions not by what someone told them we believe.
YOU DO REALIZE THAT THE MORMON CULT DOCTRINE IS AVAILABLE FOR ALL TO READ, RIGHT? DO YOU NOT REMEMBER IN RECENT YEARS THAT MUCH OF YOUR CULT'S UPPER LEVEL DOCTRINE WAS LEAKED TO THE PUBLIC, AND THEY WERE VERY ANGRY ABOUT IT. WE ALL KNOW THAT JOSEPH SMITH WAS A CON ARTIST. HE CLAIMED TO TRANSLATE THINGS FOR PEOPLE USING SEER STONES (MAGIC ROCKS). THE HISTORY OF YOUR CULT'S ORIGINAL DICTATOR IS WIDELY KNOWN AND FACTUALLY CORRECT. IT'S BEEN PROVEN THAT HE LIED ABOUT HIS TRANSLATIONS BECAUSE HE WAS SET UP BY SOME PEOPLE. DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT? OR DOES YOUR CHURCH NOT TALK ABOUT IT?
INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BOY'S ARREST RECORDS:
UH OH! BOOK OF ABRAHAM PROVEN FAKE? YEP, IT'S TRUE. THE BOOK IS COMPLETE BS:
OH MAN. THIS IS INTERESTING:
IN SHORT, THE MORMON CULT HAS BEEN DESTROYED TIME AND AGAIN, BUT IDIOTS KEEP ON CONVERTING TO IT. IT IS A WELL-KNOWN FACT THAT THE CULT IS TRASH BUILT ON A LIAR'S WORDS. HOW STUPID DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO BE IN ORDER TO JOIN? WELL, YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION.
There is all sorts of false information out there and the links you provided are fine examples of them. There's hundreds of things like that, some directed towards the LDS church, some against other churches, and hundreds directed simply to attacking the very idea of God. None of these websites have the slightest impact on reality. God exists. It doesn't matter how many people think He doesn't. The Bible is the word of God. It doesn't matter how many times it is translated and changed, the core of it remains the same and continues to teach us about God. More importantly divine scriptures help us to feel the Holy Ghost and know what is true. It is by this power, the power of God, that the LDS church continues to grow faster than any other church in the world.
WRONG AGAIN JOE HARRIS. YOUR CULT HAS GROWN AT ABOUT 2.5% OVER THE PAST DECADE. AS THE POPULATION OF THE EARTH INCREASES, THE NUMBERS INCREASE. BUT THE PERCENTAGE OF GROWTH HAS IN FACT, DECLINED.IN FACT, SINCE THE YEAR 2000, THE LDS CULT'S GROWTH HAS BEEN AT IT'S LOWEST RATE. EVER. ISLAM PULLS IN WAY MORE IDIOTS THAN YOUR CULT DOES EVERY YEAR. ROUGHLY 85 MILLION PEOPLE CONVERTED TO ISLAM BETWEEN 1990 AND 2000.
AS OF LAST YEAR, YOUR CULT HAD A GRAND TOTAL OF 14,441,346 MEMBERS. LESS THAN 14.5 MILLION. WORLDWIDE. LOL. THAT IS ACTUALLY PRETTY PATHETIC. SO MUCH FOR YOUR BELOVED WHITE HORSE PROPHECY. THE ISLAM CULT CONVERTED MULTIPLES OF YOUR GRAND TOTAL CULT IN 10 YEARS.
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR "FACTS" FROM? BECAUSE SO FAR, ALL I'VE SEEN YOU POST IS GARBAGE.
Why I am a mormon. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based on the teachings of Christ and the New Testament. Christ founded his church on apostles and prophets. Ephesians 2 states: "19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;"
Apostles and prophets are absolutely essential because they hold the keys to the priesthood. If the apostles all die, the authority is lost along with revelation; we no longer know the mind and will of God and Christ is no longer the "chief cornerstone". False teachers and priests arise and we are "carried about with every wind of doctrine". Paul taught in Ephesians 4: "11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"
Without apostles and prophets we cannot come to a "unity of the faith" nor be perfected in Christ. Without a prophet who speaks authoritatively the will of God, only confusion can reign as people argue what God meant and uninspired men tamper with the holy scriptures!
YOUR LORD EMPEROR JOSEPH SMITH WAS A FRAUD AND A POLYGAMIST. SHOVE YOUR ENTIRE CHURCH WHERE THE SUN DOES NOT SHINE. YOUR RELIGION IS A KNOWN FRAUDULENT ORGANIZATION BASED ON THE WORDS OF A HISTORICALLY DOCUMENTED CRIMINAL.
Why was it necessary for Joseph Smith to restore the true church of Jesus Christ to the earth when the Lord had already established it ? The earth was not ready for the church during the Roman Occupation. The world was a brutal place and began killing the early Christians and the apostles. Paul was a prophet and knew that the true gospel would be lost for a time. In 2 Thessalonians 2 he said, “1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
The early apostles also knew, however, that the church would be restored in the latter days and in anticipation of that great day they spoke directly to you and me in Acts 3, "19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of rest itution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
Can a thing be restored that has not been lost? We are indeed greatful to the great reformers for their sacrifices and work to prepare the way for the true gospel of Jesus Christ to be restored to the earth. They were like John the Baptist, who prepared the way for our Lord Jesus Christ. But, just like John the Baptist had to diminish while the Lord increased, so the protestant churches also need to diminish and give place to the true church. They have done their work and must end. I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and I know that Thomas S. Monson is a true and living prophet on the earth today. I invite you to visit mormon.org for more information.
Why did Joseph Smith start that church? Because he was flat broke, needed cash, and decided that since he was already convicted of fraud, he'd look to see how he could get away with it this time.
Marisol, would you also be one of those who would say such horrible things about the Lord? 20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? (New Testament, John, Chapter 10)
2 things .. 1) my screen name is "Mirosal", how about spelling it right? 2) There is no "god", no "lord" no invisible all powerful all knowing "thing" way up high who will judge us on our finite lives on this planet and mete out eternal punishments or rewards based upon our short time here. To say anything you consider "bad" about your god is the exact same thing as someone cursing the name of Zeus. It will be the same result .. nothing will happen. You're quick to condemn "Allah" aren't you?
THERE IS NO DEVIL. SO YOUR SCRIPTURE QUOTE MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.
Mormons are a sick cult,they believe in Mormon magic underwear that protects them from evil,they believe in the book of mormon,they believe their god is on planet kolob,they revere the con artist child molester and rapist Joesoph Smith.Mormons are sick and twist the teachings of the bible to fuel their perverted needs,They are a bunch of Brainwashed cultists,rapists,molesters of children,force pre arranges marriages with kids,beat women all in the name of their messiah Joesoph the molester con job. Do we want a president in office that believes in this garbbage? I say no to these molester cultists,THEY CAN GO BACKTO PLANET KOLOB WITH THEIR MAGICAL SKIDMARKED UNDERWEAR AND NEVER COME BACK,WE DO NOT WANT CULTISTS HERE IN AMERICA,BYE BYE CAPTAIN UNDERPANTS!
IT WAS DIFFICULT TO MASTURBATE TO THIS VIDEO WITH ALL THE JESUS TALK BUT I POWERED THROUGH IT.
Save the trolling for the trade channel.
OH NO. AN IDIOT MORMON THAT BELIEVES IN THE MAGIC UNDERWEAR AND FRAUD JOE SMITH HAS CALLED ME OUT AS A TROLL. WHAT EVER AM I TO DO WITH THIS REVELATION FROM THE ALMIGHTY AWESOME MONGREL IDIOT CULT MEMBER?
Curious about the mormon church?
Go to EXmormon.org for an independent view of mormonism.
If a mormon offers you Kool-Aid? DON"T DRINK IT!
You are so right! Ask someone with an axe to grind. That's the ticket! If I'm thinking of having my kid attend Ohio State, I'll ask a Michigan alum what it's like too. You make perfect sense.
Just go to Mormon.org and get the truth.
Abinadi, you are an unpaid shill for the LDS.
EXmormon.org is the site for an UNBIASED opinion of mormonism.
OR JUST SHAKE A MORMON'S HAND AND TELL IT TO FUCK OFF. LET IT KNOW THAT IT ISN'T WANTED.
LOL, a little irrational are we?
But certainly NOT delusional!
IRRATIONAL? THAT SUMS UP THE MORMON CULT COMPLETELY. THE SAME MORMON CULT THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE FULL OF FECES WHEN DNA TESTING PROVED ITS OWN CLAIMS FALSE ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF MORMON PEOPLE. THAT HAD TO HAVE BEEN A LITTLE SETBACK, EH? THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE BIBLE QUOTING JESUS SAYING THAT HE KNEW WHEN HE'D RETURN, WHICH WOULD BE DURING THE LIFETIME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ALIVE WHEN HE WAS ALIVE.
OH YEAH, THE BIBLE DOES HAVE THAT! MULTIPLE QUOTES TOO. SO, ABOUT YOUR STATEMENTS OF DIVINITY ON BEHALF OF CHRISTIANITY AND THE MORMON CULT, I THINK YOU'RE WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE. AND YOU'RE WRONG.
TAKE YOUR MAGIC UNDERWEAR AND MOVE TO NORTH KOREA. WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE.
THANKS IN ADVANCE!
World of Warcraft fan, I hope that when you grow up a little you will feel appropriately embarrassed for how you are acting now. People like you shouted abuse at the Savior during His day and His ministry so it's nice to know that we're in good company.
THE SAVIOR? LOL
1. PROVE ME WRONG. PROVE TO ME YOUR CULT FOUNDER WASN'T A FRAUD.
– YOU WILL FIND THIS DIFFICULT AS I HAVE READ ALL OF THE KNOWN INFORMATION THAT PROVES HE WAS IN FACT A FRAUD. BUT HUMOR ME ANYWAY.
2. PROVE TO ME THAT YOUR CULT DOESN'T INSULT AND DEMORALIZE ITS OWN MEMBERS
– YOU WILL HAVE EXTREME DIFFICULTY HERE AS I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN WITH MY OWN EYES DURING CHURCH "INTERROGATIONS" IN THE GUISE OF "MARRIAGE COUNSELING."
MAYBE WHEN YOU GROW UP YOU WON'T BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES. REALITY ISN'T ALL THAT BAD. TRY IT SOMETIME.
Thanks for the thoughtful insight
FLASH! Mitt Romney has just announced his choice for his Vice Presidential running mate.
Drum roll please....
The winner is: WARREN JEFFS!
10 wives for each man and a chicken in every pot!
You may think you're being cute or funny but it's disgraceful to mix up these two religions and two men. Warren Jeffs is NOT a member of the same LDS church as Romney. Suggesting as much is pure deception!
ALL MORMONS ARE THE SAME AND THEY ALL THINK JESUS OR WHATEVER IS ON KABOB OR SOMETHING. THEY WEAR STUPID MAGIC UNDERWEAR AND THEY ARE ALL POLYGAMISTS. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. EVEN THE KIDS. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ALWAYS GETTING MARRIED. MORMONS ARE ALL POLYGAMISTS. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT. WE ALL KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT CULT.
Shows what you know.
What I know is that either a mormon and/or Mitt Romney is not fit to lead our country.
SHOWS WHO WHAT? PLEASE BE MORE DIRECT IN YOUR RESPONSES BECAUSE NOW EVERYONE IS CONFUSED AS TO WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO. WHAT THE HELL.
Ellen G. White you have lot of biblical quotes, where do those religious texts come from?
Does your Christian church accept the Nicene Creed?
Only use a Council of Nicaea approved new testament?
How about you and the splintered Mormon sects, can you agree on the Nag Hammadi Library?
Joseph Smith claims he touched and read golden angel books, but he never saw the Nag Hammadi books.
Is it work of the devil, or original gospels of Mary and the other Apostles, not Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
The REAL question:
DOES MITT ROMNEY WEAR THE MYSTICAL MAGICAL UNDERWEAR?
(You know, the ones with Masonic and demonic symbols?)
Google: Magic Underwear (no foolin' !)
Quite sure he doesn't since no Mormon claims to wear "magic underwear". Do you also say Jews wear "magic beanies" or Nuns wear "magic robes"?
THE POPE WEARS A MAGIC HAT.
YEAH, IT FITS. MAGIC JEW HATS AND MAGIC NUN SKIRTS. JUST LIKE LEPRECHAUNS WEAR MAGICAL LITTLE BUCKLED SHOES AND UNICORNS HAVE MAGIC HORNS. WE ALL KNOW IT'S BS SO WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID TO HEAR THE WORD "MAGIC" IN REFERENCE TO THE MORMON CULT? THEY'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS ANYWAY. THEIR TEMPLES ARE NOTHING MORE THAN OVERPRICED BROTHELS TO WORK UNDERAGE GIRLS. AGES 4 AND UP.
MORMONS ARE A GROSS, FILTHY BUNCH.
What does Mitt Romney have in store for America? Do a wiki search on The White Horse Prophecy. You won't believe it.
IF Mitt Romney is elected POTUS and Harry Reid as Senate leader, mormons will have co-opted two of three branches of our elected government. Let him sprinkle in some mormoon Supreme Court justices and you have a mormon takeover of government.
READ THE WHITE HORSE PROPHECY!
Under stand what the evil mormonians are up to.
Then Just say NO to Romney2012~!
So what are the Mormon views as to the Nag Hammadi?
The bible has warned us of the likes of J Smith!
Deuteronomy 13:1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder,
Deuteronomy 13:2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them,"
Job 13:4 You, however, smear me with lies; you are worthless physicians, all of you!
Isaiah 9:15 the elders and prominent men are the head, the prophets who teach lies are the tail.
Jeremiah 7:8 But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.
Jeremiah 23:13 "Among the prophets of Samaria I saw this repulsive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray.
Jeremiah 23:21 I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied.
Jeremiah 23:25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!'
Jeremiah 23:31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.'
Lamentations 2:14 The visions of your prophets were false and worthless; they did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity. The oracles they gave you were false and misleading.
Lamentations 3:37 Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it?
Ezekiel 13:10 "'Because they lead my people astray, saying, "Peace," when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash,
Zephaniah 3:4 Her prophets are arrogant; they are treacherous men. Her priests profane the sanctuary and do violence to the law.
Zechariah 10:2 The idols speak deceit, diviners see visions that lie; they tell dreams that are false, they give comfort in vain. Therefore the people wander like sheep oppressed for lack of a shepherd.
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
Thanks for the Bible quotes, Ellen, but none of them apply to Joseph Smith, who was a true prophet of the Lord. They do apply to the false protestant preachers.
Usurpers and false prophets are always alone when they have their "visions". That is why the scriptures call for witnesses because the Lord knew that these things would occur. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 13, "1 In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." That is why we have witnesses to Jesus Christ's resurrection. That is why there were witnesses to all that Joseph Smith said, "Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. "
Three men saw an angel and the plates were laid before them!!!! Later, 8 more men saw the plates and handled them. This is the difference between Joseph Smith and the false teachers of the day. JOSEPH SMITH HAD WITNESSES!
Ellen, you have been deceived by, let me guess, a minister who gets money from you and doesn't want to lose his livelyhood. Ron Hubbard was overheard to say that if he wanted to make an easy million dollars, he would start a church, and that is exactly what he eventually did! Your minister is in it for the money! The true Church of Jesus Christ doesn't sell the Lord's gospel for money. That is what is called priest craft. The clergy in the Church of Jesus Christ are unpaid and only motivated by a sincere desire to serve. The young men and women who are our missionaries are the same way. They serve at great sacrifices, often giving up college savings or lucrative sports and entertainment contracts so they can bring you the truth. Don't be doofed by the "grievous wolves" who "make war with the saints" and fight against God. I urge you to go to mormon.org where kind, dedicated, unpaid missionaries will answer any questions you have.
COMMON SENSE WARNS US ABOUT THE LIKES OF YOU.
I wonder how many Jewish people believed that those verses applied to the Savior, the apostles, and other prophets of the New Testament. Probably a lot of them. Ultimately I know that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet by the exact same manner I know the Bible is the word of God: by the power of the Holy Ghost. Without the confirming testamony of the Holy Ghost the Bible would just be a historical record with some good advice. We know it is divine by listening to the divine.
THE MORMON CULT IS SHIT AND SO WAS JOSEPH SMITH AND SO ARE ALL OF HIS FOLLOWERS. SO IS THE BIBLE AND ALL CHRISTIANS. NOTHING MORE THAN A CESSPOOL OF IDIOTS THAT BELIEVE IN FAIRY TALES WHICH HAVE BEEN PROVEN FALSE BY THE BOOKS THEMSELVES. JOSEPH SMITH GOT SHOT IN A JAIL CELL AND HE DESERVED IT FOR BEING A CON-ARTIST THAT WAS PROVEN TO BE A CON-ARTIST. HE GOT WHAT WAS COMING AND I'M GLAD TO SEE A LITTLE JUSTICE GET SERVED ONCE IN A WHILE.
BY THE WAY, IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT JEWS, YOU'D KNOW THAT IT IS AGAINST THEIR RELIGION FOR ANY HUMAN TO BE A DEITY. SO THAT WHOLE SAVIOR THING YOU MENTIONED ABOVE.... WELL. YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
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