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Is the black church guilty of spiritual hypocrisy in same-sex marriage debate?
Delman Coates at Mt. Ennon Baptist Church is among a minority of black ministers in Maryland who have endorsed gay rights.
May 12th, 2012
08:00 AM ET

Is the black church guilty of spiritual hypocrisy in same-sex marriage debate?

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - Some people wonder if the black church will punish President Barack Obama for announcing support for same-sex marriage.

Here’s another question:

Why would the black church cite scripture to exclude gays when a similar approach to the Bible was used to enslave their ancestors?

“It’s so unfortunate,” says James Cone, one the nation’s most influential black theologians and author of “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.”

“The literal approach to scripture was used to enslave black people,” he says. “I’ve said many times in black churches that the black church is on the wrong side of history on this. It’s so sad because they were on the right side of history in their own struggle.”

Call it historical irony: Black church leaders arguing against same-sex marriage are making some of the same arguments that supporters of slavery made in the 18th and 19th centuries, some historians say. Both groups adopted a literal reading of the Bible to justify withholding basic rights from a particular group.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Opposition to gay rights is not the standard position of all black churches. Still, while several predominately white mainline denominations have officially accepted gays and lesbians in various forms, the vast majority of black churches still consider homosexuality a sin.

Black church leaders recently helped lead a successful drive to amend North Carolina’s constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The Rev. Fred Robinson, a black pastor in Charlotte, says most black churchgoers aren’t hypocrites. They take scripture, and sin, seriously.

“Black people are not confused,” Robinson says. “If you look at the scriptures that oppose homosexuality, Old and New Testament, they are clearer cut than the ones people used to justify slavery.”

Yet there are other factors beyond the Bible that shape the black church’s resistance to same-sex marriage.

“It’s more than scripture – it’s history, culture, how we were raised,” says the Rev. Tim McDonald, founder of the African American Ministers Leadership Council.

Some black church leaders are still fighting hard just to persuade straight black couples to marry. Accepting same-sex marriage when so many black households lack a husband and wife makes McDonald uneasy.

“I am not comfortable performing a wedding ceremony of the same sex,” says McDonald, an Obama supporter. “That’s just where I am.”

Some black pastors, however, embrace a literal approach to the Bible not just to exclude gays but to get rid of competition, says Edward Blum, a San Diego State University historian.

Some black pastors cite New Testament passages such as Paul’s demand that women keep silent in churches to argue against black women in the pulpit.

That argument is harder to make when black women’s energy and donations form the backbone of the black church, Blum says, but some still get away with it.

“The biblical literalist reading has kept male leadership in power in a church that is hugely female,” Blum says. “It keeps power in men’s hands.”

The one book that mattered

Black churches also embrace a literal reading of the scripture because of its unique history, says Blum, author of “W.E.B. DuBois, American Prophet.”

During slavery and segregation, many blacks saw the Bible as the one document they could trust. The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, state and local laws – all found some way to ignore their humanity, Blum says.

The Bible, though, was one book that told them that they weren’t slaves or three-fifths of a person, Blum says.

It said they were children of God.

“Throughout the 18th and 19th century, what document could they trust?” Blum says. “When the Bible says it’s so, it’s something that black people believed they could trust.”

Their enemies, though, used that same veneration of the Bible against them. Slaveholders had a simple but powerful argument when critics challenged them: Trust the Bible.

They cited scriptures such as Ephesians 6:5. (“Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling. ...”) And they said Jesus preached against many sins, but never against slavery.

Since the Bible is infallible, and scripture sanctions slavery, it must be part of God’s order, slaveholders concluded.

“Slavery is everywhere in the Bible,” Blum says. “When Americans who were in favor of slavery defended it with the Bible, they had a treasure trove of clear biblical passages that accepted enslavement.”

Blum says abolitionists found it difficult to mount an effective counterargument. They couldn’t just say trust the Bible. They preached another approach to scriptures.

They said you couldn’t enslave people based on the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you. (Obama cited the Golden Rule and his Christian faith in supporting same-sex marriage).

“The abolitionist turned to the ethics and spirit of the Bible,” Blum says. “They were theological modernists before modernism.”

And what are black clergy and churchgoers today when they cite the Bible to oppose same-sex marriage?

Robinson, the North Carolina pastor, says they’re not homophobes.

“It says in the Bible that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” he says. “How do you explain that one away? A lot of honest Christians are not trying to hate homosexuals. They’re saying that if I take the Bible seriously, I’m not sure I can say it’s right.”

Robinson says that some opposition to homosexuality is actually based in compassion:

“If I’m concerned about your soul, I have to tell you the truth in love.”

Cone, who teaches at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, says black churchgoers opposed to same-sex marriage are instead mimicking their ancestors’ oppressors.

“I tell some people, ‘These people were against you.’ They would have lynched you. How are you going to now join them and help them lynch somebody else?’”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Christianity • Culture wars • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Politics

soundoff (4,348 Responses)
  1. Limbaugh is a liberal

    Why not ask the ultimate authority on what's right and wrong? Rush Limbaugh? He definitely is against gay marriage and how it perverts the meaning of traditional marriage...

    ...His first, second, third, and fourth wives were not available for comment...

    May 12, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • tony

      All babies are born atheist. All bodies in the churchyard are atheists. In their last few living moments of consciousness, some religious believers may rediscover their original atheism, before it is forced upon them unconsciously anyway.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • be

      Nor were the wives of the guy who authored DOMA

      May 12, 2012 at 10:39 pm |
  2. GenericMan

    Who cares about gay people marrying. It's not even that serious.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Frogz

      Because it opens the way for many far worse things to come. Once you open Pandora's box you can't close it.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • Observer

      Frogz,

      The subject is gay marriage. Pretending it's something else isn't working. Stay on topic.

      Pathetic argument. Try something else.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      The religious believe they're doing Gods work by opposing it .. they're trying to get brownie points for God. It's nothing but selfishness with the distinct scent of fear.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Like what Frogz, cats and dogs living together?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • be

      Right Frogz, like the way abolishing slavery opened the door for dogs and cats to own their own property....and inter-racial marriage opened the door to inter-species marriage.....and desegregation opened the door for horses to drink out of the same water fountain as you.....and allowing women to vote opened the door for toddlers to vote........OH WAIT....none of that ever happened? Hmmmmm....go figure.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
  3. Peter E

    The Bible says many things. The same Book of Leviticus considers working on the Sabbath a mortal sin for which one should be put to death. Even if we only consider the New Testament, there are many passages that reflect outdated ancient tradiations. For example, in Timothy, women are instructed to be silent around men and not to teach, nor have authority over men. Curiously, the same portestants who criticize the Catholic Church as being too old fashioned about women's rights, are the ones who use the same Bible passages to repress women as well.

    The Bible is not to be taken word for word, especially not so selectively. The Bible has great lessons to teach, but we don't live in the ancient Middle East anymore. This is 21st century America. Humanity has progressed far beyond outdated customs.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      The Bible is very relevant, especially to the times. People who are uneducated misquote the Bible constantly and completely take things out of context. But the Bible has always been used this way as a crutch to both support causes and condemn others, why should anything be different now?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • tony

      A few. Genesis 1:14 tells us to look to the night sky for signs. Like Hawking.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      ... Like I said... Humans have been using the Sun and constellation location for millenia to determine time of the year and location.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • Observer

      Pravda4U,

      How relevent are talking serpents? Unicorns? Slavery? Discrimination against women? Discrimination against the handicapped?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      ROFL, look up "Unicorn" in an old english dictionary. It means Rhino.... The fairy tale horse with one horn does not exist, and never did in the original Bible text. Only when it was converted to old English, and the meaning of the word changed. Like I said, uneducated people commenting on what the Bible means...

      May 12, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
  4. Pravda4U

    Ten years from now the ped0files and those that want to marry their pets will be crying out how they faced the same plight as the gays. Once perve$ion is changed to be the norm, the rest will follow and want their "civil" rights too...

    May 12, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • be

      Right.....civil rights have proven that over and over again......Give women the vote and the next thing you know monkeys and dogs will be voting. Free the slaves and the next thing you know horses will be owning property. That slippery slope has proven itself to be sooo dangerous.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Pedofiles don't have consenting adults as partner .. neither do pets. Why can't consenting adults marry? What does it hurt you?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      You already have "partnerships" go be gay, why should marriage be changed to justify your lifestyle? IT is not normal, and will never be fully accepted.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • be

      Right.....because we learned so many years ago that "separate but equal" really works well when it comes to civil rights.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Limbaugh is a liberal

      It's okay. Maybe you haven't paid attention in your biology class when you were little to have learned the difference between animals and consenting adults. But we'll forgive you. Now go back to school!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Pravda if we followed your bible which promotes r@pe and pedophilia that would be the case right now. How old was Mary when she was impregnated? 12 or 14?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Pravda .. why does it bother you if a gay couple marries? Even if not "normal" or accepted, why does it bother you?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Frogz

      10 years from now they will be pronouncing man and goat, nambla member and child "married" if the liberal agenda continued

      May 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Observer

      Pravda4U,

      Pretending that this has anything to do with bestiality, just shows desperation to change the subject. Didn't work.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      God sure loved pedophilia when he commanded it in the bible or when he committed it on Mary. He must have been a dirty liberal too.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      Lol! Sorry, the Jewish faith is not the same as the Muslim faith. She was older then 9...

      May 12, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • If horses had Gods .. their Gods would be horses

      Frogz .. even if someone did announce a couple man & goat ... why do YOU care? Unless of course you care about the goat .. but then what you're worried about it consumating this marriage isn't it? In that case a person can abuse a goat without a marriage ceremony anyway so it doesn't matter.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      So jews only date ten year olds? LOL

      May 12, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • Observer

      Frogz

      "10 years from now they will be pronouncing man and goat, nambla member and child "married" if the liberal agenda continued"

      Name ONE prominent liberal who advocates ANY of them.

      Oooops.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • Limbaugh is a liberal

      In North Carolina it is illegal for gays to marry.
      But it is okay for first-cousins to marry.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:09 pm |
  5. Frogz

    What is with CNN and its constant gay agenda? This like like faux new in reverse. What happened to "fair and balanced" on this site?

    May 12, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      It's the Obama News Network and they are hard at work pushing the liberal agenda...

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • tony

      The Kansas School Board

      May 12, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • be

      wow yeah....that darn gay agenda......They want to marry......they want to raise their children without fear of discrimination......they want to serve their country in the military. CNN is turning into a puppet for those conservative values that, let's see.....Christians have traditionally touted as their own.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      What happened to fair and balanced. They should invite the KKK to right an article on gay rights. lol

      May 12, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
  6. Pravda4U

    My genealogy includes Native Americas, and I find the fact that gays are trying to compare the slight discrimination they face due to their lifestyle choice to what Native American Indians and African-Americans faced highly offensive. You can not compare race issues to lifestyle choices. Were gay's land confiscated, because they were gay? Where they loaded on ships because they were gay and dragged to serve as slaves in a different country? No, they were picked on because of choices that they made. The comparison is sickening...

    May 12, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • be

      Soooo.....you woke up one day and said, "I think I'll be straight." You no more did that than you woke up and said, "I think I'll be native american today." And if you go back in history, gays were sent to the concentration camp for the orientation they were born with......they were sent to jail and denied their freedom.......they were burned at the stake. So yeah, I think they've suffered every bit as much as your people, if not more. The main difference is that they are still denied their civil liberties and people such as yourself still condone it. Very sad.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      You living in a fairy tale world...

      May 12, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Pravda4U –
      Shouldn't the fact that you – or your ancestors – were the victim of discrimination encourage you to support other victims of discrimination? The assertion that "I suffered more than you so your suffering is irrelevant" seems a bit ill-conceived and disingenuous.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      Discrimination due to your nationality has nothing in common with lifestyle choices. Go be gay, it is your choice, but stop trying to convince people that it is anything more than a choice, because that is all it is.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Pravda4U-

      I don't think you answered my question.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Observer

      Pravda4U,

      Gays were born that way. Get educated.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
    • be

      I hate to tell you this, but if you "chose" to be straight then you are simply a gay person in the closet. I know that I was born straight......just as much as I was born white.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      Your question is laughable and insulting to people who have truly suffered for things that were out of their control, not choices that they made.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Pravda, I refuse to believe that you are really this stupid. Surely you are purposefully misunderstanding the argument so you can vent your anger at some unknown. No one is comparing those things. The article says that it is ironic that descendants of slaves are using the same tactic that was used to keep them in bondage, so they can rob others of their rights to freedom.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:55 pm |
    • Pravda4U

      Again, the comparison is laughable...

      May 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Look, it is incomprehensible what happened to your ancestors. It pi*sses me off! Your people didn't have a choice and either do people with different se*ual preferences. I think it is apples and oranges but the plight of the gay is none the less unacceptable.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:06 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      It's less of a comparison than a fact. I know how much you religious folk laugh at those. I see all those scientific theories are coming to use for you by allowing you to communicate with us. Please pray any further comments to us since the method you rely on is laughable.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • AGuest9

      So, Pravda4U, all of those effeminate little boys in kindergarten that grew up to be ho.mo.se.xual men just "decided that one day"?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:14 pm |
  7. Anonymous

    What is ironic is that these people still groan under the whip of slavery.
    I read their groans and complaints in the news and shake my head in disgust at their unwillingness to release themselves from this slavery..
    This slavery is mental slavery. They are chained, mentally and emotionally, to the bigoted cults of their religion.
    The exact same religion that was used by whip-wielding slave-owners to justify their hatred of dark skin, of a foreign people they had enslaved by force.
    Yet these descendants of those slaves never escaped the mental and emotional slavery of the slave-owner's religion.
    The chains are still there.
    They chafe and bruise and break their bones with hypocrisy and bigotry and racism, just like for those long-gone slave-owners who also were slaves in this way.
    Mental chains of bigotry and delusion. Emotional chains of group identlty, of hate, of false comfort, of having no ability to think for themselves because they were born into this slavery.

    It is slavery born of ignorance, of indoctrination, of the brutal emotional "beat-downs" of their own family members and neighbors.

    Born into this slavery, or caught and sold to the slave-owning churches from outside the group, these people have no hope for freedom.
    They have had their hope for freedom stolen from them, covered over with lies, fooled into thinking their chains are freedom, that their chains are made of hope.
    But chains are chains.
    They remain slaves who have been brainwashed to refuse freedom, brainwashed to refuse real hope, brainwashed to fight against anything that goes against their slavery!
    Religion has made them slaves that forge the chains of their own bondage, their own servitude to the bigoted delusions of their religion.
    How can I blame them in their ignorance and seeing the delusional strength of their mental chains?
    I do not hate them. I very much want them to be free and happy to the greatest extent possible.
    But I do not have anything but words like this to saw away frantically at those chains...those chains upon my brothers and sisters no matter who they are or what they look like.
    I attack their chains over and over with my words of truth, of honesty and compassion. I use much of my strength and love to attack the chains that destroy their lives and warp their minds. I spend hours of my life doing this for them.

    And no, they did not ask me for this. Such slaves as they have become would never ask for freedom because these are chains upon their minds and emotions. The chains are always disguised, always made of lies, and are almost unbreakable.

    Yet I try. I seek their freedom from the lies they cannot break, the lies they cannot and will not fight.
    I seek to release them from their mental slavery even as they attack me for daring to even touch their chains.
    It is very sad and horrifying to see the sheer scope of what I am attempting to do.
    I have shed tears more than once over the plight of those who are mental slaves to lies, to bigotry based on lies, to hate born of fear and ignorance.
    But I will keep hacking away at those chains. I can do nothing less if I want them to be free. And I do. Very much.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Well said, Anonymous.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
  8. be

    The gay agenda: Marriage, Family, and Service to Country in the Military. Gee....it sounds like a pretty conservative and christian agenda to me.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
  9. b4bigbang

    momoya: "@b4 – Hey, if you don't want to pick and choose that particular verse to ignore like you pick and choose the verses on shellfish eating and proper slave-owning practices, then that's fine.. Just don't pretend you've got a right to tell others that they have to follow the verses you follow and ignore the verses you ignore.. Simple enough.. You pick for you how you want to; let others pick for themselves exactly as you do.. You don't have to be this stupid."

    I dont need the old testament to inform me about the g a y thing, the passage in Romans is where i got my info.

    And regarding "pretend[ing] you've got a right to tell others that they have to follow the verses you follow and ignore the verses you ignore.. Simple enough.. You pick for you how you want to; let others pick for themselves exactly as you do", i have the right of free speech (so far, as long as the g a y agenda doesn't get a 'hate speech' law passed), and furthermore i have the right to vote my conscience on anything on the ballot.

    And as for "letting" others think, say or do stuff, I'm not stopping anybody, except for voting against 'g a y rights' legislation. Now if you don't like the US system of politics, either change it or whatever.....

    May 12, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      "I dont need the old testament to inform me about the g a y thing, the passage in Romans is where i got my info."

      So, are you stating that is where you got your information about people that have a different se*xual preference?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      And btw, i'm not calling for negative action against g a y s. Not trying to bring back the anti-sodomy laws or advocating violence, etc.
      I'm just saying i have the right to refrain from joining the g a y political agenda, like approx half the US.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • Observer

      b4bigbang,

      Please explain why the Golden Rule doesn't apply?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      I don't understand your reasoning for your objection. If you are being informed by a book that was written thousands of years ago don't you think you take pause and learn for yourself? I mean it is 2012 and we know a heck of a lot more about our existence and why things are the way they are. I really try to understand your mindset but it doesn't work for me.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      You are correct. You do have that right, just like the KKK have a right to be racist, the Muslims have a right to love or hate U.S policy, the Skinheads and Neo Nazi's have the right to be braindead.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      I *am* applying the golden rule. If i was in deep sin, then deep down (unless my conscience was completely seared) i would know the Christian had my best interest in mind if he reminded me that my lifestyle was sinful and that he refused to compromise with my sinful worldview.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
  10. n8263

    Using religion as an excuse to deny others civil rights is wrong. It was used by whites to oppress blacks and now a majority of blacks are using it to oppress gays. This is wrong.

    It is amazing Christians still post comments to blogs like this asking why non-believers hang out and try to show them the truth. We are not trying to deny you of some god's riches (as someone posted earlier) any more than we want to deny you of Santa's Christmas presents. We are trying to wake you up and in so doing make the world a better place.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Help me out here "n", how and the heck do we do it?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @n8263 –

      Well said. I've often asserted that if your religion justifies discrimination it's time to find a new (or no) religion...or, at the very least, find a new interpretation of the magic books to which you subscribe.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Voice of Reason – "how and the heck do we do it?"
      Keep fighting the good fight...which means you have to remain vigilant and continue to call "shenanigans" when believers make ridiculous claims. History has shown that ignorance can be worn away.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Really-O?

      I appreciate people like you, thanks for the encouragement!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Voice of Reason –

      Right back at ya' comrade.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • mandarax

      I'm in. Thanks to all three of you for your voices.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • tony

      It's called cognitive dissonance. You adjust what you want to believe to make your belief system more comfortable, espepcially to handle uncomfortable contrary facts. Google it.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • n8263

      Really-O and Voice, thank you for your comments!

      May 12, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
  11. southside mike

    If marriage has always been between ONE, man and ONE woman, why did one of the biggest names in the bible (Solomon) have 700 wives and 300 concubines? (First Kings 11:1-3)

    May 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh

      May 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • getaclue

      Yeah he was a big name in the bible and if you read the whole story you find out that what he did was a sin and it was the reason he ended up dead instead of fulfilling everything God had for him because he wanted women instead of doing it God's way. 1 Kings 11:4. They ended up turning his heart away from God and his heart was not fully devoted to God.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • silence

      Old testament, not new! Christians do not follow old testament; they follow the new. The testament is mainly read for historical perspective.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • Observer

      silence,

      "Old testament, not new! Christians do not follow old testament;"

      So when did Christians throw out the Ten Commandments? lol.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Christians like to sweep that one under the rug. I guess they think the creation and Noah's ark and all that stuff was just God's fvck up, the first time around.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • Dana

      Let's not forget Abraham, either... or Lot, his nephew, who was a man of God and porked his own daughters to get them pregnant. The Bible, a moral authority?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
  12. Steve the Goat

    Here's a hint... If people believe the bible is anything but a fairy tale, they will use it to try to justify their mindset. Black, white, green, or purple, all of you bible following neanderthals will be the downfall to humanity if you don't throw away your hate-filled fairy tale book. Religion is all about control.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      I knew I liked goats for a reason! I think you are absolutely correct!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      Funny thing is religion! Their followers don't seem to hate anyone but the ardents of religion want to see religion fail and fall down from its' high perches! When Christianity fails the people only then will people fail and fall down to become like animals! Giving Gays the rights to being sodomizers of civility is but the fiirst steps toward unleashing sodomy into all parts of society! God Bless the righteous and to Hell goes those;- the tares of wickedness thoughts!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @A Serpent's Thoughts

      So now you have something against animals?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Serpents thoughts? The religious only hate those who wish for religion to fail? Then why have Christians had so many bloody battles amongst each other as far back as it's conception?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      @ Voice of Reason

      Don't animals do henious Acts of sodomy espesially among herded ones? Should mankind be part of such Vile Acts? I thought we are above the animal instincts as does science so claim and religion does back!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @A Serpent's Thoughts

      Well, I don't know if anyone ever told you but you are an animal.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      @ Godoflunaticscreation

      Please refrain from trying to avert my position regarding sodomy! Even many other religions outside of Christianities had many awful situations in their histories! So did the atheist communities have henious histories! None are pure and without a sinful past! For you to but stand against Christianity being the one and only aggregate of wrong doings, you haven't a good leg to stand upon!

      May 12, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Oh really? Please tell me where atheists formed a code of conduct or atheist way of life accepted and endorsed by world atheists, a coalition, appointed a head of atheists and then committed any atrocity. You will probably list someone that does not fit the criteria because you know no such thing has ever occurred.

      May 12, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      @ Voice of Reason

      Being an animal and knowing where one comes from does make one above the animals don't you think? Should our minds be lurid and rancid with filth from sodomy's torments or should we place ourselves on higher ground then mere animals?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @A Serpent's Thoughts

      With all due respect I think your clouding your reasoning with this filth and sodomy thing. To me it sounds so outdated and uninformed. As far as the animal thing goes, I find that animals are more loving and tolerant than man. Who's the wiser now?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      @ Godoflunaticscreation

      Does Karl Marx or other communists ring a bell? How about the Chinese boxer revolt? North Vietnam or the Korean war? It is true that the Vietnam and Korean wars were due in part of the USA's stance against communism? WWII brings to bear the real issues of Atheistic zealotry and audasciousness! Hitler may well have once been a Catholic but his end game was not even closely a christian idealism!

      I'm not against your rather pragmatic enclave but to breach my hatred of anything that is of sodomy and sidetrack it with calamatous intrusions of this and that regurgitatons of otherliness regards is merely Acts of prudent disconformities not even worthy of debating! If sodomy becomes a socialized relevancy here in the USA, then many children will fall prey to its' wickedness Acts! "Public" systems of education will allow sodomy's literature into thier libraries and I do not doubt it is now being done! Teaching the very young the literatures of sodomy are vile and wicked Acts!

      May 12, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thoughts

      @ Voice of Reason

      Sooooo,,,,, You "think" animals are more loving than "man" is? Like I said sodomites love animals in the same way you do, only their Acts become their perversions with animals! Are you truly an animal lover as the sodomites are?

      May 12, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
  13. n8263

    It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others.

    You do not believe in religion because you honestly think it is true, you believe in it because you fear mortality or are seeking meaning in your life. It does not take a genius to figure out all religion is man made, so for humanity's sake, please stop lying to yourself.

    Deluding yourself in religion does not change reality. Lying to yourself is probably the worst possible way to try to find meaning.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
  14. VLJH

    Does the fact that they are measurable mean that someone didn't make them? I believe fully in science; I believe that God created it. Scientific theory is just that, theory. Can your science disprove God's existence anymore than my belief proves it? We are both simply expressing our beliefs.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Do you know anything about evolution?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Scientific theory is not theory. This is a theory, God loves to stick ripe bananas up his poop shoot. So you think the theory of gravity is just as useless?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Also your entire argument, which I see you've moved on from, was that just because we can't see things like gravity or "God" doesn't mean they don't exist. Basically trying to say that just because we don't see Thor or Loki ,that they are just as important as scientific theories that allow you to communicate with us now, albeit rather unintelligently.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • tony

      Gravity is just a theory. So float off out of it.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
  15. jf

    1) Please lay off irrelevant debating points.

    2) The Bible has a lot more to say about the obligations of masters to slaves than of slaves to masters. That some people took isolated pieces out of context for personal agendas does not discredit the whole.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Observer

      Yep. The Bible is clear about how much you could hurt your slave without punishment.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • be

      the same could be said about people's biblical arguments against gay marriage

      May 12, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • the Dawn

      I guess if it had 100 things to say about the obligations of slave owners and only 90 to say about slaves, then it must be the true, infallable word of god.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
  16. WOT

    For how Congress has treated the President, I would not want to be President again! As for Blacks voting for him again, look for about 99.9 %. He has had his share of bigotry, with everything he tried to do good or bad. As it is said , we will get a greater evil!

    May 12, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
  17. Voice of Reason

    Some food for thought (I had posted earlier but no response):

    There was a mathematician that can be sighted as the person to break the Nazi code during WWll, he was on the good side. In fact we could lay claim that he is the one that ended the war.
    Later in life he was arrested for being gay and having a relationship with another man. It was either prison or hormone injections for him. He opted for estrogen injections. Sad, sad story and I believe he committed suicide. Now there's your justice for you!

    May 12, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • be

      There are hundreds of thousands good, moral, wonderful gay men and women. They are doctors, nurses, lawyers, architects, preachers, laborers and more. As you have pointed out, it is ludicrous to believe that any God would condemn a man or a women because they actually LOVED another human being.....so long as that love is nurturing, respectful, and self-giving. It seems to me that anybody who thinks that the Bible says that would automatically rethink how they were interpreting the Bible....the same way we have rethought what it says about slavery, segregation, inter-racial marriage and women's vote.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @Voice of Reason –

      Take solace in the fact that ten or twenty years from now the same-se.x-marriage "debate" will be a thing of the past, put to rest as was the prohibition of interracial marriage (by the Loving v Virginia decision) in 1967. We, our children, and grandchildren, will look back on this issue as another example of social injustice, only supported by societies most backwards social pariah.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      I really hope you are right, unfortunately I will not be around to experience it.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • imeubu

      cited

      May 12, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  18. ug

    All nigaloids like to support their "bro's" no matter how immoral they are.

    May 12, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • Observer

      Mindless bigots also stick together.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
  19. hategays

    I think that all gays should be lined up and shot. They are a disease, period.

    May 12, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      ...with your tube steak?

      May 12, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • Observer

      Factless and ignorant.

      Well done.

      May 12, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • mms55

      here's an idea,why don't we line bigots like you up and shoot them instead?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      No, actually you are diseased one.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • David

      Where is the "Report this comment to the FBI" button?

      May 12, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • mfw

      The FBI monitors thousands of blogs including this one. They are also competent at what they do.
      Don't worry about it unless you know someone personally. They'll take care of the rest.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
  20. VLJH

    Just because you can touch your car and have some understanding about how a car engine combusts doesn't mean that you don't approach starting the car every morning from a belief that the car will start. Just because you can look under the hood and see the engine doesn't mean that you don't have faith in the science of combustion. Scientists have explained about gravity and why the earth rotates on its axis while simultaneously rotating around the sun. Just as you can touch the car, I can touch the earth that's spinning around in space. I can also feel the sun on my skin when I'm standing outside. How did the all the celestial bodies form from nothing? Who designed the laws of gravity and motion? It takes less faith for me to believe that God is the intelligence behind the sheer complexity of the universe's design than it takes to believe that it all came from nothing and just happened.

    May 12, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @VLJH –
      The fact that your personal knowledge and understanding is limited in no way serves as evidence for a creator.

      May 12, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Wrong! All the scientific laws you mentioned are measurable. You have nothing to offer. Please stop insulting people's intelligence by putting random hypotheses on par with Scientific Theory.

      May 12, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • Godoflunaticscreation

      Also, just because something may not be fully understood does not give you license to write a blank check cashed out to your personal favorite superst1tion.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:00 pm |
    • tony

      If he did that, then he's done nothing since. The Laws of Physics don't appear to have changed at all since the Big Bang. Looks like this god is Male. Create and run. No wonder young men are formed in his image.

      May 12, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.