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Is the black church guilty of spiritual hypocrisy in same-sex marriage debate?
Delman Coates at Mt. Ennon Baptist Church is among a minority of black ministers in Maryland who have endorsed gay rights.
May 12th, 2012
08:00 AM ET

Is the black church guilty of spiritual hypocrisy in same-sex marriage debate?

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - Some people wonder if the black church will punish President Barack Obama for announcing support for same-sex marriage.

Here’s another question:

Why would the black church cite scripture to exclude gays when a similar approach to the Bible was used to enslave their ancestors?

“It’s so unfortunate,” says James Cone, one the nation’s most influential black theologians and author of “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.”

“The literal approach to scripture was used to enslave black people,” he says. “I’ve said many times in black churches that the black church is on the wrong side of history on this. It’s so sad because they were on the right side of history in their own struggle.”

Call it historical irony: Black church leaders arguing against same-sex marriage are making some of the same arguments that supporters of slavery made in the 18th and 19th centuries, some historians say. Both groups adopted a literal reading of the Bible to justify withholding basic rights from a particular group.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Opposition to gay rights is not the standard position of all black churches. Still, while several predominately white mainline denominations have officially accepted gays and lesbians in various forms, the vast majority of black churches still consider homosexuality a sin.

Black church leaders recently helped lead a successful drive to amend North Carolina’s constitution to ban same-sex marriage. The Rev. Fred Robinson, a black pastor in Charlotte, says most black churchgoers aren’t hypocrites. They take scripture, and sin, seriously.

“Black people are not confused,” Robinson says. “If you look at the scriptures that oppose homosexuality, Old and New Testament, they are clearer cut than the ones people used to justify slavery.”

Yet there are other factors beyond the Bible that shape the black church’s resistance to same-sex marriage.

“It’s more than scripture – it’s history, culture, how we were raised,” says the Rev. Tim McDonald, founder of the African American Ministers Leadership Council.

Some black church leaders are still fighting hard just to persuade straight black couples to marry. Accepting same-sex marriage when so many black households lack a husband and wife makes McDonald uneasy.

“I am not comfortable performing a wedding ceremony of the same sex,” says McDonald, an Obama supporter. “That’s just where I am.”

Some black pastors, however, embrace a literal approach to the Bible not just to exclude gays but to get rid of competition, says Edward Blum, a San Diego State University historian.

Some black pastors cite New Testament passages such as Paul’s demand that women keep silent in churches to argue against black women in the pulpit.

That argument is harder to make when black women’s energy and donations form the backbone of the black church, Blum says, but some still get away with it.

“The biblical literalist reading has kept male leadership in power in a church that is hugely female,” Blum says. “It keeps power in men’s hands.”

The one book that mattered

Black churches also embrace a literal reading of the scripture because of its unique history, says Blum, author of “W.E.B. DuBois, American Prophet.”

During slavery and segregation, many blacks saw the Bible as the one document they could trust. The Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, state and local laws – all found some way to ignore their humanity, Blum says.

The Bible, though, was one book that told them that they weren’t slaves or three-fifths of a person, Blum says.

It said they were children of God.

“Throughout the 18th and 19th century, what document could they trust?” Blum says. “When the Bible says it’s so, it’s something that black people believed they could trust.”

Their enemies, though, used that same veneration of the Bible against them. Slaveholders had a simple but powerful argument when critics challenged them: Trust the Bible.

They cited scriptures such as Ephesians 6:5. (“Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling. ...”) And they said Jesus preached against many sins, but never against slavery.

Since the Bible is infallible, and scripture sanctions slavery, it must be part of God’s order, slaveholders concluded.

“Slavery is everywhere in the Bible,” Blum says. “When Americans who were in favor of slavery defended it with the Bible, they had a treasure trove of clear biblical passages that accepted enslavement.”

Blum says abolitionists found it difficult to mount an effective counterargument. They couldn’t just say trust the Bible. They preached another approach to scriptures.

They said you couldn’t enslave people based on the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do to you. (Obama cited the Golden Rule and his Christian faith in supporting same-sex marriage).

“The abolitionist turned to the ethics and spirit of the Bible,” Blum says. “They were theological modernists before modernism.”

And what are black clergy and churchgoers today when they cite the Bible to oppose same-sex marriage?

Robinson, the North Carolina pastor, says they’re not homophobes.

“It says in the Bible that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” he says. “How do you explain that one away? A lot of honest Christians are not trying to hate homosexuals. They’re saying that if I take the Bible seriously, I’m not sure I can say it’s right.”

Robinson says that some opposition to homosexuality is actually based in compassion:

“If I’m concerned about your soul, I have to tell you the truth in love.”

Cone, who teaches at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, says black churchgoers opposed to same-sex marriage are instead mimicking their ancestors’ oppressors.

“I tell some people, ‘These people were against you.’ They would have lynched you. How are you going to now join them and help them lynch somebody else?’”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Christianity • Culture wars • Gay marriage • Gay rights • Homosexuality • Politics

soundoff (4,348 Responses)
  1. Jim

    Typical hypocrisy. I don't claim to be a Christian but from everything I can read, God or Jesus would 'hate the sin but love the sinner' and not damn the person.

    The fact that there is a racial spin on this is truly ironic – blacks here in the South display some of the most vehement racial hatred toward non-blacks that I've ever seen – having served in the Army and lived all over the country.

    This administration fosters this racial divide, I believe, and I am ashamed I voted for Obama last time. I doubt I will next time. His team certainly has 'divide and conquer' down pat and pushing the mindless, muck-raking media to keep harping on stories like this just continues the divisiveness – blacks vs. gays, blacks vs. whites, whites vs. blacks...

    May 12, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Mo

      one point of correction:
      Jesus would have loved the sinner, but not the sin, correct.
      however, per Jesus, unless and until the sinner had repented and ceased to sin, hell would be his future home.

      May 14, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
  2. kiana

    why do they keep saying the Black church ? there is no such thing as the Black Church there is only one God one church no

    May 12, 2012 at 11:43 am |
  3. Sam Adams

    If Blacks were dumb enough to vote in this phony then they will continue to be ignorant an re-elect him as well. Blacks hands down are the most ignorant race in the US, and they aren't proving this over and over again. They will always be the bottom feeders of this country.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Mo

      off-topic, but to respond to your racist tirade....you may be quite the ignorant one. i assume you are white, but will not make a blanket statement that all white people (just because of your display) are ignorant fools.
      learn your history; learn about the contribution of black people to this country and to the world. learn about music history and realize that (with the exception of classical music), all forms of music in this country were created by black people. read about ancient history, and you will realize that the first civilizations on this planet were black (in africa). you will realize that black people civilized the europeans, many, many years ago.
      anyway, i am getting off topic... just wanted to reflect your ignorance to your 'great and mighty white self'

      May 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
  4. Bob Boise

    Christians long to live in a Christian nation. However, facts are facts. America is a pseudo, faith based pagan society. America as a nation practices its faith in the same way as Universities with a long forgotten religious heritage (like Ivy League schools or a school like Willamette U (founded by Methodists) do so. The U.S.A. has 'evolved' beyond the moral values that founded our country. You cannot expect pagans to welcome Christian values. As citizens, the Christian minority has a right and obligation to attempt to 'impose' its values on society. However, since we live in a "democracy", not a theocracy, we cannot expect our Christian views to be welcome by the general, apathetic populous.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Jagged

      Well said Sir, well said.

      Sad, but true, Hells fire has plenty of fuel.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Heather

      > Sad, but true, Hells fire has plenty of fuel.

      And there's a sucker born every minute.

      May 14, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
  5. klangster

    This a bs racist article. It is the CHURCH that is against gay rights it just happens that as a percentage of population black people seem to spend more time in church. The majority of catholic and protestant churches are against gay marriage too but the fact is that most white people do not attend church on a regular basis and are not as indoctrinated to this particular type of bigotry, but the fact remains that source is the church not skin color.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Joe

      Very true. The problem is christianity. It is amazing there are still people uneducated and stupid enough to believe if that crap.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • happyfrenchman

      You are half right if you think that was the point. The church is clearly the problem, but additionally, how could one enslaved by that church, now follow it. That is a valid question.
      Some would say they were freed by it as well, but an examination of a history book would tell them that is somewhat of an overstatement.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • jason

      Reall? Blacks spend more time in church? Then whey are they the most immoral overall as a group? The highest rates of single-parent homes, highest rates of teen pregnancy, highest rates of crime, highest govt dependance, highest....the list goes on. Ironic, huH?

      May 13, 2012 at 9:22 am |
  6. John Blair

    This question isn't even an attack on gays! It's an attack on decent people who are elderly citizens who've suffered much in their lives and have had nothing to do with the recent gay issue, and out of the blue CNN post something like this. This is utterly hurtful to post to someone who is in their 70's and has worked hard serving this country. I couldn't image someone like my grandfather who served in WW2 reading something like this and feeling disrespected.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • John Blair

      My point being, if an elderly African America woman can remember when she was young and seen her family get lynched, etc. and she suffered much growing up but kept peaceful about it, and trusted in the rights she had and went to church and kept a true honest faith that was so innocent and still served this country, now after all these years she's called a hyocrite? That's awful and disrespectful. CNN disrespects those who've suffered by this article.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • Heather

      So old people are incapable of hypocrisy?

      May 14, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
  7. Leonardo

    I get so many blessings, I have two digress, I'm buying a house, I have a lovely family, I have a great job, I've been with my partner for years and we are happy, I'm in my early 30s.. I'm gay and God loves me! I believe in a God that is love. I'm sorry for the fundamentalists that believe in Adam and Eve, I'm sorry for the people that believe that hate and unfairness are ok and last I'm really sorry for the people that hate but are church goers. This article is a perfect example of unmasking this hypocrit society.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • the media is the devil

      Yes Leonardo, God does love you but He is purely holy and doesn't like your sin. Sorry. But you'll find that out when He judges you. I'll face the same for my sins but I have Jesus to attone for them.

      May 12, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
  8. josh1

    Yep, the bible ranks a man laying with another man similar to eating lobster...

    If you want to interpret the bible literally, fight against Red Lobster.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • Eroc

      Nice one! I'm still waiting for the New, New Testament to be published. When is the update for it coming out.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • GodPot

      It will be called the Nu de Testament, and it will allow for divorce, occasional adultery, as long as it's done on the second Tuesday of each month of course, and allow gluttony which they will rename as "getting your moneys worth at the buffet" and will allow for tax fraud since hey, taxes are evil so it's not really lying...

      May 12, 2012 at 11:56 am |
  9. Guest

    It is called The Old Testament ant the New Testament. I don't know how people who don't even know or take God seriously try quoting the bible. If you really read the bible you see that after Jesus All those things were clearly explained. I am black and thankfully through jesus i am free to not rely on my race but on his grace. Ultimately it comes down to People do not want to recognize how important Jesus is.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • James Angus Linney

      Or not.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Eroc

      Snicker, snicker.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • happyfrenchman

      You are a fool if you think the Old and New Testament go together. And I cannot for the life of me understand how a black person could follow the same tripe that was used to enslave you. (namely the Old Testament). You think Christ would approve of you discriminating against your fellow man? I cannot understand how you can overlook the facts just because some other idiot put it in your head and hands.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • Jay

      ultimately it comes down to how many different people christians want to discriminate against. the whole point of the article is that even new testament passages have been used to defend slavery. does being closer to God make slavery more right?

      May 12, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Feed Your Head

      The chains may be off your legs, but they are still on your brain.
      What "version" of Jesus do you follow ?
      The blonde, blue eyed white hippy in a toga and sandles ?

      May 12, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
  10. De

    In response to the question "Why would the AA church use the same scripture to exclude gays as was used upon them to justify slavery?' Books could be written on this subject, but one simple answer is dogma. Dogma has been used since the Nicean council first made Christianity a "State Religion," for the republic of Rome. Dogma has been used to "dumb down" people since. The word itself is associated with tyranny, bigotry and authoritarianism among other things. Dogma teaches the use and abuse of rote memory and disregards other types of learning. It was used to "train up" the children of slaves who were murdered or separated from their families so that the children did what they were told. Without anyone to teach them their true history, these children adapted to existence as it was because they knew nothing else. This same technique can be seen in every culture Rome conquered. They only stopped killing when all were subdued, then they began to assimilate. This same pattern today can be seen in cases of addiction and co dependence within families and society. Why do children continue to seek the approval of an abusive, addicted parent? Why does an abused wife or husband seek the approval of the abuser? Why do people continue to smoke after repeated warnings from the doctor? Why does a obese person continue to binge or an anorexia continue to starve themselves? Why does the Roman Catholic Church Continue to discourage birth control in a world with 7Billion inhabitants, that was only meant to sustain about 1Billion. Why do they insist on demonizing women and installing pedophile clerics to protect their financial interests? There are thousands of examples, but the bottom line is that dogma is the lowest form of learning. It's great to be able memorize a list and recite it verbatim, but we forget that 14year olds in pre Roman Egypt were using mathematics that baffel most people today. These people could build pyramids, and see complex patterns in stars, create calendars...Jesus didn't own a Rolex he used astronomy when he traveled. If we taught most of what Jesus actually taught, it would be considered Pagan today. Maybe it is time we really started listening and learning from one another instead of feeding the same old beast. If we stop feeding it it will starve instead of our own children. Until we learn to be all inclusive, and stop acting as if the tabloids are gospel and idealism is God, we might actually be able to change this mess we've created into something positive! 🙂

    May 12, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  11. happyfrenchman

    Actually reading the Bible, instead of waving it, tends to weaken the faith. Because the book is full of all kinds of contradictions and the teachings of Christ actually fly in the face of what passes for christianity nowadays... Most christians think Matthew Mark Luke and John were Christs disciples... they think they were part of the 12. But they were not... look it up. They were about 65 to 100 years after, writing down stories they were told by Peter and others. And the whole thing was a cherry picked rewrite anyway. There are all kinds of "scriptures" that were pulled out because they were contradictory. Look it up christians. I dare you to look it up for yourselves. You are in for a surprise if you do. But most won't.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • GodPot

      Well said.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
  12. Mike P

    The difference between the slavery debate and the gay marriage debate is simple. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly forbid slavery. In those days, slavery was as pervasive and accepted as minimum wage laws are today - it was just a fact of life, and sometimes that fact was preferable to other alternatives (i.e., death). But the Bible does explicitly forbid gay relations, and the Bible does explicitly define marriage as being between one man and one woman. When Jesus himself asks in Matt 19:4-5, "Have you not read that in the beginning God 'made man male and female' and 'for this reason a man leaves father and mother and cleaves to his wife, and the two become one flesh'?" He is teaching not only that marriage is between a man and a woman only but also that marriage's whole reason for existing is tied up in uniting these different but complementary genders. When you have two men or two women, one of them is superfluous, and something is still missing. Only when you have one man and one woman do you have marriage as Christianity defines it: "To avoid fornication, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband." (1 Cor 7:2)

    May 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Sockifyable

      And it is totally okay for churches to only condone marriages they feel are in accord with Biblical law. (On a church by church basis, even.) However, beliefs about the sacred purpose of marriage are no grounds to deny people CIVIL marriages.

      Remember, the state should not have and should not be given the power to sanctify or dissolve a Christian marriage. That sounds very Church of England - exactly what the Founding Fathers didn't want for us. Civil marriages, on the other hand, are contracts that give people certain rights in regard to joint finances and hospital visitation rights, etc.

      It is unconscionable that two Americans would be denied their civil liberties based on what a subset of other Americans (here, Christians) believe.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • Feed Your Head

      That Adam & Eve thing again.
      If you believe in this story, it means all of "mankind" is from incest.
      I think you and your "God" have some splainin to do.

      May 12, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
    • JKhur

      Irrelevant. Your holy text cannot be the basis for law in this secular socirty anymore than a Satanist's, a Hindu's, a Zoroastrian's, etc.

      May 12, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
  13. André

    The bible IS the problem. It literally says in many passages that ALL GAYS must be PUT TO DEATH (stoned to death). Those of you who think the bible is not the problem are either: 1- idiots, or 2- people who haven't read the bible.
    I suggest you read this evil book.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • happyfrenchman

      And that is another thing... that is all Old Testament things... the very thing Christ was engaged in refuting 24-7. Why do you think they eventually evolved into christians instead of remaining Jews. Christs teachings made a contrast to the Jewish law that so many idiots cite today as Biblical justification. They shouldn't even read the Old Testament except as a guide for where Christ was coming from... but he left it. He left it behind. Another reason they wanted him dead... and yet todays christians cite the very book. Christ interfered when they were stoning people. But christians today want nothing more than to throw stones.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • André

      Sorry happyfrenchman, you make absolutely no sense. Christians claim that the bible is HOLY, all of it. Many christians would DIE to save a copy from being destroyed. Presidents (and many others) get sworn by putting their hand on it. If you want to cherry pick what you like and dont like in this unholy book, why not remove ALL of the old testament from the bible ? Instead of worshipping it whole as a holy book ? Then I would have a little more respect towards you.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • happyfrenchman

      I am not cherry picking... I am saying the book was cherry picked by it's authors. It was rewritten in the middle ages... look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version

      A total rewrite, with instructions from the King to make sure it included that clergy were specially elevated. Look it up yourself, educate your own damned self instead of spouting pure ignorant evil..

      May 12, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • DeTamble

      I dont recall the word "gay" in the bible.

      May 12, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
  14. abqTim

    Yeah, well it was also the Christians who fought to stop slavery. So whatever. Pointless. Today everyone knows what's right and wrong. Gays can hang out but they can't get Married because marriage is for producing one's genetics...period. Send gays to another planet and that planet is DEAD. No reproduction!!! It's a dead end. Pass laws for gays but don't mess with my marriage and don't call my marriage gay cuz it's not because we reproduce as nature intended. Call it gay union or whatever just don't mess with what my loving wife and my family have...a real productive marriage. Obama really changed his values at last second just to try and win...spineless.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • GodPot

      " Call it gay union or whatever just don't mess with what my loving wife and my family have...a real productive marriage."

      How does allowing gay people to marry "mess" with your relationship in ANY way?

      May 12, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • GodPot

      I have asked this question several times and I have yet to hear a single example. There is not one single way that this effects their own marriages, so they have to revert to the "The bible says it's wrong" defense. That is all they have, they are morally bankrupt and they know it which is what infuriates them so much, to know for a fact that they will lose this debate and be on the wrong side of history, again...

      May 12, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Sockifyable

      If your relationship with your wife would be put in jeopardy if gay folks can marry then you need to rethink the foundation of your marriage.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • abqTim

      cuz when lawyers start modifying the laws that have worked well for a very long time, they will just screw it up for everyone else. I don't want to even chance it. I just want them separated from my rights. See what I mean now? It's just to controversial and something stupid will likely be passed. That is why they need a separate union law(s). I don't want some weird adoption laws or whatever laws for gays to screw up whatever rights my family has right now.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Jerry

      Overpopulation is a dead end too. Period.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • abqTim

      If you guys trust lawyers then maybe you need to start believing in god. Because that trust in just as imaginary to me as you think my god is. Oh, and there are plenty factual evidence of crappy lawyers...everyone know that even us Christians.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • abqTim

      Yeah, but there is a solution to over population but not for gays unless they want to believe in god...period.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • abqTim

      read close please. I didn't say the love of my family is in jeopardy just the laws surrounding it.

      May 12, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • Going In Circles

      Waste of time to reply to this nut case,
      he is too far gone.
      If gay marriage will mess up his marriage,
      he is several states, and several years past a divorce.
      I feel bad for his wife.

      May 12, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
  15. Henry

    This question can only come from the perverted mind of a sodomite. Slavery is not a sin!

    May 12, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • Eric G

      While we are on the subject of a perverted mind....... If you continue to attempt to infringe upon the liberties of others because of your belief in a god, you will need to provide verifiable evidence that your god exists.

      Without that proof, there is no sin.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • abqTim

      No, but it's wrong. God, in my opinion gave us morals to figure that one out. And, I believe the ones who do are the ones that are favored. Hitting anyone to make them do as please is right??? If you think so then you must believe in beating your wife, child and of course anyone else....you are pathetic

      May 12, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • Henry

      Eric G

      You’ve got it all wrong, you are the one that need to provide verifiable evidence that god does NOT exists.

      May 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
  16. Mennoknight

    "Blum says abolitionists found it difficult to mount an effective counterargument. They couldn’t just say trust the Bible. They preached another approach to scriptures."

    As a Mennonite Christian that read the Bible with an Anabaptist theological viewpoint. This understanding of scripture means that the New Testament takes pre-eminence on all aspects of daily life that differ between the Old and New Testament.
    This is not a new idea, but an idea that has been around for 500 years and is known as the Radical Reformation.

    This is the theological view that was embraced by the anti-slaver movement.

    How that view differs from other views is that is stops you from cherry picking what scripture backs up your preconceived notions.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Rebaptism is a sin, which is almost worse than gayness. Repent!

      May 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Mennoknight

      Ha Ha, Rainer Braendlein, You really did make me laugh.

      Who about this one, the first baptism was not a baptism, it was just a baby getting wet in front of the church.
      Oh and baptism doesn't save. It is just a symbol of what has already occurred on the inside.

      May 12, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
  17. Joe

    When has christianity ever promoted anything besides hatred, bigotry, and violence? Never. It is a silly religion for uneducated trash.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Scott

      promoted anything besides hatred, bigotry, and violence? ----- Oh really? How so? Please inform me and show it without your lies.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • JesusIsNotReal

      unfortunately the brainwashing is strong and parents unknowingly trap their children with these silly beliefs.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • JM

      What?

      Mother Teresa? WorldVision. Operation Christmas Child (every year, people pack millions of shoeboxes for poor kids around the world), child sponsorship, international adoptions....the list goes on.

      Jesus' teaching is all about love, mercy, forgiveness, serving others...the world just tends to hear/see the other side: the hypocrisy that doesn't necessarily follow his actual teachings.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Alex

      You are so ignorant! The time you will come you will stand before the God you ignore now and be accountable for your words and actions !!!!

      May 12, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Joe

      The crusades, the inquisition, the current war on Islam, witch hunts, hatred of all other religions, hatred of gays, slavery, priests molesting little boys, greed and manipulation of those stupid enough to believe... How much more evidence do you simpletons need? God is not real, get over it kids.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Eric G

      @Alex: Thank you for your unsubstantiated threats. I think it is more prudent to hold everyone accountable for their words and actions now.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • abqTim

      "uneducated"...like how you just lump people into one pile like all racists do...yeah, you realy know it all.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • ricktcarr

      If not for protestant Christianity, there would not be a United States of America. If not for Christianity, there would not be freedom of expression. You at least owe us that much. Now, that you believe that people who dont agree with your narcissist opinion to be hatefull and bigot, is your problem. Get help, Christians dont hate and are not bigots. We are human and subject to the sames faults as others, that's what idiots like you use as an excuse to make some of us look bad. In the end, ia all about were we go after we die. And we pray to God you decide to join us. God bless you.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • JM

      If someone does something "evil" and calls it Christianity, it isn't Christianity.

      15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.'

      “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

      3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.'

      7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

      9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.'

      May 12, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • MADD MAXX

      Joe, all violence is caused by man, regardless of what banner it flies under. Even a world without religion will be violent, greed and power are just traits of human personality. Religion just gives others an excuse to do what they want. Ridding the world of Religion will not fix the world.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • Eric G

      @ricktcarr: "If not for Christianity, there would not be freedom of expression. You at least owe us that much."

      Wow. I don't think I have enough bread crumbs to find my way home after that one.

      Care to explain that, Chief?

      May 12, 2012 at 12:11 pm |
  18. Rainer Braendlein

    Don't marry each other dear gays, but start to believe in God by the the gospel of Jesus Christ and wait for your beloved wife. God gave his precious Son for you, dear gay. What shall he add on to his infinite love? I he loved you so that he gave his Son for you, he will certainly give you a beautiful wife. Hence, repent and wait for your wife.

    Every sin is an act against the principle of love towards God and the neighbour. Actually God has predetermined a certain wife for nearly every man. A single pious man should wait for his predetermined wife in abstinence up to the day, when he encounters his wife and marries her. A gay man is a man, which has totally lost the control of his body. A gay man is a man, which is totally controlled by the lust of his body to this extent that he even desires men. This is the total denial of the love to his future wife, which God actually wanted to give him and the total denial of the belief in God's love, who wanted to support him with a wife. If we answer God's love with total lechery, we sin. Sin is the opposite of love towards God and the neighbour. Yet, dear gay, exactly for such a sinner like you God delivered his beloved Son. Should not this convince you of God's love, who wants to take care of you and to give you a wife and everthing else, which you need?

    The verses of the Bible against ho-mos-exuality are meant verbatim. Yet today in the concrete handling of certain cases patience must be applied.

    We can imply that yet at Moses' time a gay man was not stoned immediately, but exhorted several times, before he was punished. If someone repented, he was forgiven and admitted again into the community of God's Chosen People.

    The equivalent of stoning at Moses' time is the exclusion from the Church (the Church is the successor of God's Chosen People) today, if a church member is not ready to repent from a heavy sin. The exclusion takes place first after at least three attempts of rebuke (by a singel church member, by several church members and by the whole congregation). Like stoning the exclusion from the Church can lead to the total destruction of the body of the church member in the worst case. A church member outside the Church has got no protection against evil powers.

    Basically a ho-mose-xual person can not remain in the Church. If he or she wants to remain in the Church, he or she has to repent. The Church is a place, where sinners can be cured from their maladies or where are people, which are already cured.

    Every true Christian is always aware of his own sinfulness and knows that he overcomes his sinful body only by God's Grace in Jesus. Hence, a Christian will not judge sinners, but offer the gospel of restoration towards them. In the Church there are people (sinners), which have accepted God's salutary Grace. If someone rejects God's offer of healing, he should stay outside the Church.

    If my workmate, classmate, neighbour, etc. outside the Church is a gay, I don't have to judge him, but treat him friendly offering the gospel by word and practical love.

    The only problem is, when gays want to be church members, without abandoning their sin by the releasing Grace of Jesus. This cannot be accepted, because the Church is the proper place, where are people, which are reconciled with God. Someone, who keeps on sinning, is not reconciled with God and doesn't belong to the Church.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Dance This Mess Around

      Dont mind Rainer.
      Recovering crack adict.

      May 12, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
  19. JesusIsNotReal

    Why people love to believe in the evil God of the bible? It's beyond my comprehension. A bunch of crazies. God of the bible murders millions including innocent babies and animals, he punishes with eternal damnation for simple VALID disbelief due to the lack of evidence supporting that he exists.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Joe

      You forget how stupid christians are... They believe in something no more real than the easter bunny and ghosts. It is a religion for children and idiots.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Alex

      You are so ignorant! The time you will come you will stand before the God you ignore now and be accountable for your actions !!!!

      May 12, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Joe

      You forget that god is not real Alex. Grow up...

      May 12, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • JesusIsNotReal

      See ALEX, you are showing how evil your religion is... it's all about making threats.. your version of GOD is not LOVING it is EVIL.

      May 12, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  20. Bob Boise

    False argument. Each moral issue stands on its own merits. Using the Bible as the basis for moral/legal policies is no different from the Lefties using O.Winfrey or G. Clooney...in that a strong held personal view must be based upon something. True believers know there is a connection between faith/belief system and personal behavior. Who knows about liberals? I suppose if you are a zealot Lefty your Religion is your love of perversion, so anything goes. That religious faith causes the Lefties to hate Christians and promote the liberal social agenda. Seems to be working real well in AmeriKa at the present.

    May 12, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • Eric G

      Careful Bob.....

      I really don't think you want to start with comments like "false argument" when your entire post is an argument from as-sumption.

      Believers who attempt to use logic to prove their point on this blog get destroyed.

      Just a friendly heads up. Have a great day!

      May 12, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • Dance This Mess Around

      Republican propaganda works very well on some people.
      Slap a label on it, lump them all together and create the "enemy".

      May 12, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.