Editor's note: Daniel A. Helminiak, who was ordained a priest in Rome, is a theologian, psychotherapist and author of “What the Bible Really Says about homosexuality" and books on contemporary spirituality. He is a professor of psychology at the University of West Georgia.
By Daniel A. Helminiak, Special to CNN
President Barack Obama’s support of same-sex marriage, like blood in the water, has conservative sharks circling for a kill. In a nation that touts separation of religion and government, religious-based arguments command this battle. Lurking beneath anti-gay forays, you inevitably find religion and, above all, the Bible.
We now face religious jingoism, the imposition of personal beliefs on the whole pluralistic society. Worse still, these beliefs are irrational, just a fiction of blind conviction. Nowhere does the Bible actually oppose homosexuality.
In the past 60 years, we have learned more about sex, by far, than in preceding millennia. Is it likely that an ancient people, who thought the male was the basic biological model and the world flat, understood homosexuality as we do today? Could they have even addressed the questions about homosexuality that we grapple with today? Of course not.
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Hard evidence supports this commonsensical expectation. Taken on its own terms, read in the original languages, placed back into its historical context, the Bible is ho-hum on homosexuality, unless – as with heterosexuality – injustice and abuse are involved.
That, in fact, was the case among the Sodomites (Genesis 19), whose experience is frequently cited by modern anti-gay critics. The Sodomites wanted to rape the visitors whom Lot, the one just man in the city, welcomed in hospitality for the night.
The Bible itself is lucid on the sin of Sodom: pride, lack of concern for the poor and needy (Ezekiel 16:48-49); hatred of strangers and cruelty to guests (Wisdom 19:13); arrogance (Sirach/Ecclesiaticus 16:8); evildoing, injustice, oppression of the widow and orphan (Isaiah 1:17); adultery (in those days, the use of another man’s property), and lying (Jeremiah 23:12).
But nowhere are same-sex acts named as the sin of Sodom. That intended gang rape only expressed the greater sin, condemned in the Bible from cover to cover: hatred, injustice, cruelty, lack of concern for others. Hence, Jesus says “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 19:19; Mark 12:31); and “By this will they know you are my disciples” (John 13:35).
How inverted these values have become! In the name of Jesus, evangelicals and Catholic bishops make sex the Christian litmus test and are willing to sacrifice the social safety net in return.
The longest biblical passage on male-male sex is Romans 1:26-27: "Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another."
The Greek term para physin has been translated unnatural; it should read atypical or unusual. In the technical sense, yes, the Stoic philosophers did use para physin to mean unnatural, but this term also had a widespread popular meaning. It is this latter meaning that informs Paul's writing. It carries no ethical condemnation.
Compare the passage on male-male sex to Romans 11:24. There, Paul applies the term para physin to God. God grafted the Gentiles into the Jewish people, a wild branch into a cultivated vine. Not your standard practice! An unusual thing to do — atypical, nothing more. The anti-gay "unnatural" hullabaloo rests on a mistranslation.
Besides, Paul used two other words to describe male-male sex: dishonorable (1:24, 26) and unseemly (1:27). But for Paul, neither carried ethical weight. In 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul says that even he was held in dishonor — for preaching Christ. Clearly, these words merely indicate social disrepute, not truly unethical behavior.
In this passage Paul is referring to the ancient Jewish Law: Leviticus 18:22, the “abomination” of a man’s lying with another man. Paul sees male-male sex as an impurity, a taboo, uncleanness — in other words, “abomination.” Introducing this discussion in 1:24, he says so outright: "God gave them up … to impurity."
But Jesus taught lucidly that Jewish requirements for purity — varied cultural traditions — do not matter before God. What matters is purity of heart.
“It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles,” reads Matthew 15. “What comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles. For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.”
Or again, Jesus taught, “Everyone who looks at a women with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28). Jesus rejected the purity requirements of the Jewish Law.
In calling it unclean, Paul was not condemning male-male sex. He had terms to express condemnation. Before and after his section on sex, he used truly condemnatory terms: godless, evil, wicked or unjust, not to be done. But he never used ethical terms around that issue of sex.
As for marriage, again, the Bible is more liberal than we hear today. The Jewish patriarchs had many wives and concubines. David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi, and Daniel and the palace master were probably lovers.
The Bible’s Song of Songs is a paean to romantic love with no mention of children or a married couple. Jesus never mentioned same-sex behaviors, although he did heal the “servant” — pais, a Greek term for male lover — of the Roman Centurion.
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Paul discouraged marriage because he believed the world would soon end. Still, he encouraged people with sexual needs to marry, and he never linked sex and procreation.
Were God-given reason to prevail, rather than knee-jerk religion, we would not be having a heated debate over gay marriage. “Liberty and justice for all,” marvel at the diversity of creation, welcome for one another: these, alas, are true biblical values.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Daniel A. Helminiak.
So does anyone here actually think that Daniel is right in his interpretation of the bible?
Lots of comments and nobody seems interested in defending the validity of his argument. Very telling...
actually, the latest posts have been arguments. but there's been 100s that said his article was terrible and completely wrong. there, i just said it again.
One needs question is version to for there to be a need for defense. So far there have been plenty that disagree but none that could refute. Very telling indeed.
If this were a few years ago while I yet believed I would disagree with his exegesis.. I guess I still don't see his interpretation as valid simply because of the verses in the OT that talk about killing gays and the like..
I would like to say that I don't follow the Bible. I don't agree with most of the garbage in there. I do think he is wrong in his interpretation though. I think it means what it says, that hom-ose-xuality is wrong. I don't agree with the Bible on this.
Well Tom, the argument seems to be that pas-sages about gay s-e-x need to be read in context, such as the story about S-odom and he raises the question of whether this has anything to do with moral questions about a monogamous and loving relationship between people who are born gay.
I think that this is an excellent point, but unfortunately he's missing the larger picture of what qualifies as moral se-xuality according to the faith. What Daniel would learn according to Catholicism is that it is a mortal sin to ma-sterbte, to have premarital s-e-x, to do o-r-a-l, etc without regular int-ercourse or to use contraceptives while having s-e-x. All of these hetero acts are condemned by the faith because they are perv-ersions of God's design. Gay s-e-x is a sin for the same reason that these other acts are sins, because it misses the life-giving attribute which is a necessary condition for a moral se-xual act (according to the faith).
So if we claim that the bible does not actual condemn gay s-e-x, then we ought to argue that it also does not condemn these other sins of impurity between heteros. And the corollary is true, if you think it is ok to use contraceptives, what is the justification for condemning gay s-e-x?
I think it's clear that the bible actually does impose moral imperatives with regard to s-e-xual impurity, and so his is an uninformed argument if he tries to justify gay marriage according to scripture, but I think his argument is a stumbling block for hypocritical Christians who think impure acts are ok if you are hetero, but not if you are gay.
Fool, if you're going to post under my name, improve your writing.
Tom (the real Tom)- funny stuff.
Read a new king james bible for yourself
Don't let others tell you what it means or you will be at the mercy of the person twisting scripture to suite their agenda..
which means never to go church.
i actually suggest reading the bible with a historical, religious and skeptic's study guides. find out for yourself how disgusting the bible is.
Yep.. Close study of the bible (unbiased) will lead you straight to atheism.
Yes, read a New King James VERSION. Ignore the original text referred to in the article. But before you do that search WHY there IS a King James version. lol
Knock it off, troll.
If we allow gay marraige, then bridges will start marrying hot dogs, obviously
I hope I get invited to that one!
what's the bad part? i saw a man marrying a hamburger in a commercial yesterday. they looked happy.
Nothing bad about that, a bridge copulating a hot dog out of wedlock is just wrong.
They plump when you cook 'em.
As long as the bridge and the hot dog are opposite sèxes, I have no problem.
Booty let's marry donkeys
you into bestiality?
on a side note, i don't think there's a donkey with low enough standards to marry you.
btw, did you know there's a talking donkey in the bible? just like in Shrek!!!
Talking snakes too, right? Maybe dragons?
BamaDaniel, have you ever heard of a thing called consent? You see, when two gay people want to get married, they are both consenting to it. When a man tries to marry an animal, there is no consent by the animal. When a man tries to marry a 12 year old girl, there is no ability to consent there.
Of course in your world, you probably think when a woman says "no" she means "go for it". I wonder if you are on the registered se-x offender list since you clearly don't know what consent means.
LOL! well said.
The burning, talking bush is my favorite.
I am too handsome to have to take it . That was a joke for booty .and giants and spaceships and fiery chariots
Spaceship set bush on fire God was behind it
do you think the talking donkey in the bible sounds like Eddie Murphy?
also, notice the donkey is getting with a dragon - SIN!!!
What about talking birds uh oh some animals can learn to mimic us
talking birds? that's your proof? ever seen a talking donkey?
I just knew there was something up your b.utt. Donkey. Shrek would be po'd.
BamaDaniel... you are one funny dude.
True story – I swear to god – er, wait.
Anyway – I heard this years ago on some morning radio show. The hosts were talking avout a guy who had just been arrested. He worked at one of those huge chicken plants – were they kill the birds and process them. He got caught being "the master of his own domain" using dead chickens. The hosts ended up talking with the guy by phone. He said it was just one of those spur of the moment things. Then they asked him if he was using a male or frmale chicken to pleasure himself. The guy went nuts. Yelling – of course it was a female chicken, did they think he was gay???
Haha there are really people on here arguing that animals get married to eachother. And these are the people that are trying to tell us how marriage is defined? So rich.
People people people! Who would you rather follow? A normal being who abides in normality and strays not from normalisms? Or would you rather follow someone who thinks their dipsticks can be plugged in practically anywhere?
You truly have a perverse fascination with this subject don't you?
Are you normally this stupid?
@ Voice of Reason
Funny, I thought this blog was on dipstickers and their pickle jars?
normal is often boring, so i'll take the unusual choice. thnx.
Do you normally say the same thing to all people who post? I'll bet you do it to only Bible believers! Nearsighted reason for farting!
Doesn't your satan come in the guise of many names such as you do on this blog?
dipsticks? oooh, an intellectual
I would prefer to follow someone who believes in freedom for all persons, not just the ones you define as "normal". I will vote for the person who is willing to look past their own ideology to be more inclusive of the people they will be representing. To claim only you know what "normal" is and to attempt to force everyone into your narrow definition is, as I said, just stupid.
So you are an abnormal delinquent? God forbid it I call you a dipstick plunger of the opposing sameness! Go and screw in a lightbulb for crying out loud! Abnormal perverts stick together with their own semen being the agent for which they become glued upon via dipsttick abnormalities of the vile and animalistic kinds! Grow up for Christ's sakes! Stop it with your childishness wants and get a Life of normalism and not abnormalities' foresaken dipsticks' vileness ways!
"So you are an abnormal delinquent? God forbid it I call you a dipstick plunger of the opposing sameness! Go and screw in a lightbulb for crying out loud! Abnormal perverts stick together with their own semen being the agent for which they become glued upon via dipsttick abnormalities of the vile and animalistic kinds! Grow up for Christ's sakes! Stop it with your childishness wants and get a Life of normalism and not abnormalities' foresaken dipsticks' vileness ways!"
LOL! you crack me up. it's like someone with brain damage got brain damaged and then tried to post.
There was that story on the news about that guy getting stuck in the pool filter...hmm. I think he married the pool, though, so it was ok.
I'd rather think for myself than follow anyone.
I've seen you say there is no such thing as sin, thus no right/wrong. I've then also seen you state how slavery is the most evil inst.itution ever.......So which is it? No right/wrong or there's evil?
Also please enlighten us on what you've done to help your local community or humanity in general. I'll go first; I donate money to charity and volunteer occassionally. Not perfect and I could certainly do much better, but I'd love to hear what you do the help out others.
P.S. shouting hateful, ignorant, and vile posts against believers doesn't count as helping out someone.
Then why do god believers post such vile and hateful things?
there is no such thing as sin. there is no such thing as "good" or "evil". they are labels that we put on acts we deem good or evil, but there is no actual magical good/evil force, if that's what you're asking. do i need to explain more?
what have i done to help the community? well, my sister runs a feed the homeless program (she's also an atheist). i volunteer there regularly to help. i used to volunteer at other shelters before i was helping my sister. i've even volunteered at religious homeless shelters. i just helped my neighbor down the street move. her husband had Alzheimer and recently died. i helped her move and then my fiance and i painted her home for her - for free. she is very religious, btw.
don't assume that atheists don't help people. i'm not just an atheist, i'm a humanist. humanism offers a far superior ethical code than that of christianity. for instance, humanism doesn't tell you to kill anyone. i challenge you to go to this site and read what it says. now tell me where you find fault.
Truth, do you have a response to yeahalright from last page?
Non-believers contend that your so called evidence about Jesus changing your life would have also happened if you explored Islam, Buddhism or many other religions, and it is really you who changed your life. I have never seen any Christian refute this statement.
What do you say to all the Muslims who think Allah changed their lives, or to all the non-believers who say their lives improved when they unchained themselves from their religious delusions?
Since you claim your beliefs are based on logic, that is what I am expecting, logic.
Hahahahahahah bootyfunk, the guy who posts absurdities all day everyday suddenly is now the guy who volunteers all his time at homeless shelters and helps everyone out. Ofcourse once he's challenged he's now more giving than Mother Theresa herself. Atheists sure do love to lie, but then again they don't think it's wrong or there's any remorse so why not.
I'm not going to speak for Bootyfunk, who is perfectly capable of answering this, but I am voicing my own beliefs.
There is right/wrong. Any act that violates the rights of another person is wrong.
There is no sin. Sin is an act that violates the moral rule of a religion. Since god doesn't exist, there is no need for religion. Religion exists solely to control others.
"What have you done to help your community" is a diversionary tactic meant to put another person on the defensive. It's not relevant; it serves only to try to distract the one being challenged from the issue in order to disguise a lack of knowledge, proof, or evidence to support your view. Whether I spend all my free time volunteering in a soup kitchen or sitting on my couch does not change the facts. There is no god, the bible is a work of man.
i agree with most of what you said, Bet. but i don't think there is a force of good or a force of evil. my point is that good and evil are just descriptors.
Truth: Sin is a biblical term and so no, given that she we reject your claim for god we also throw out the term sin and any other biblical term you may throw at us. No-one is blind enough amongst us not to recognize that there is right and there is wrong in this world. We are all human in the end. We do not use a book as a moral compass. We usually derive our morals from what we comprehend by looking at the world around us...health is preferred to illness; life is preferred to death; violence is wrong; not judging someone based on their life choices/beliefs/disbelief/who they choose to love is usually the right way to live. I touched on belief there and to clarify, my biggest issue with believers is that a good portion use their bible as an excuse to speak out against something that to us seems normal and equal for all. We have compassion and are not evil beings and as Booty has said that is only a label. We're like everyone else, we are not perfect but nor are any of you.
I think we're on the same page, bootyfunk. I don't believe in good or evil, but I do believe that we should not violate the rights of others.
Have any of you religious types done any research about religions that came before christianity?
Yes....quite a lot actually.
Btw Christianity isn't derived from prior religions like you atheists love to claim (also a claim in the movie zeitgeist). Thanks for playin.
How can you prove to me, since you claim it, that Christianity wasn't based on previous religions?
No they haven't that's why they blindly say its all gods word
Judaism. There is one religion that it had some basings from.
Truth, oh Truth? Where are you little one? You didn't respond. Are you out finding yourself?
you didn't do any research. you're lying or completely incompetent at doing research. look up jesus and horus, dionysus, krishna and a bunch of others. what do you have to say about jesus being based on those previous deities? please be specific. you've done a lot of research, so i'm sure you know all about it. LOL.
LOL you guys are too funny. What's the point in responding since you all already know exactly what research I've done and exactly what I'm doing at the moment. The fact that you all ask for direct proof on a comments section only proves your own ignorance.
AS I'VE STATED BEFORE; PEOPLE DEDICATE THEIR LIVES TO STUDYING THIS STUFF AND THERE'S MOUNTAINS OF DATA AND INFORMATION TO SIFT THROUGH. IF YOU WANT PROOF THEN GO OUT A RESEARCH ON YOUR OWN, ASKING A RANDOM PERSON FOR PROOF IS THE MOST MORONIC THING I'VE EVER HEARD, IT ONLY SHOWS WHO YOU REALLY ARE.
You'll all have to answer for your actions one day.
You sound just like every other ignorant christian who hasn't read two full pages of the bible yet nor any other apologetic or bible scholar.. Watch the vid, moron.
I watched the vid moron, and there's rebuttals to every one of your bogus claims. Lemme guess; you want me to provide a details analysis of each rebuttal because anything short of absolute 100% proof and you autmatically reject it, even though it takes more faith to be an atheist.
You're a liar.. Most christians are.. they think that if they lie for their god it makes the lying ok.. That's why christians lie so much of the time.. If you fully believed the bible and did not think it absolutely stupid as he.ll, you wouldn't be here arguing like you are.. Atheism is headed your way.. I hope you can handle it.
You made a fool of yourself buddy.
Truth, baby Jesus is weeping because you're posting while you're at work. That's stealing. THAT'S A SIN.
you guys are amazing...
at least I communicate in three languages
all you have left is your ANGLISH and your foolishness. oNLY A MORRON like you would built your "talking points" based on "slavery" and "flat earth" (stating the Bible says that) lol
atheists are coward who tried to bribed God going to church and as their dirty method is not His method you got frustrated.
Why don't you pray on it for a while...get back to us with "answer" from god...
I wouldn't call it 'communicating'.
Babbling, blathering and pontificating are not languages.
but the bible does support slavery. jesus supports slavery. there are rules in the bible for selling your own daughter into slavery. there are rules for beating your slaves.
are you just ignoring this?
tried to bribe god? how can we bribe something we don't believe in? gosh, marcio, you sure sound like a subservient bootlicker. boy, jesus is coming....get back on your knees
I hope you don't count English as one of the three languages you communicate in.
"this person is "so dense"?
coming from atheist who talks about "slavery" and "flat earth" on the Bible is uncredible!
be good cause you will ever change us. You have CNN, most of media, lies, bribery and false articles but we have Science and God in our side.
.....and you will have to answer for your resentment the day you die. Do not blame God for you sin, this sinful, fallen world and your family problems
stop been a coward
Science of god? Lol, that's an oxymoron! Haha what a dipsh•t.
the bible says there was light before there was a sun. there was an earth before there was a sun. and yes, the bible says the earth is flat. read the bible. you may be surprised at what you find. for instance, did you know there are unicorns in the bible? and satyrs, dragons and c.cokatrice - oh my!
I do not blame someone that doesn't exist for sin's I didn't commit.
@ Marcio Pelegrini
At least those stupid atheists know how to use the reply button lol.
Wowzers!! I hear they have a nicely padded room at the local asylum for people like you Marcio! Why the hypocrite to come here and spew hatred in the name of your god and have the audacity to tell us we're the ones in the wrong!!! Best check your own morals. Science is not on your side, Science is full of evidence that contains actual facts...your side has none. We don't say that the bible says the earth was flat...we're not stupid!! We do say your buybull speaks of slavery because it does! It is you who is mistaken and have not read your buybull. Time to grow up child or get some help from a medical professional...might we suggest having yourself sterilized so you can't brainwash a child, to start and then maybe some psych help to cure you of the delusions?
A gay snail. well thats a laugh! Every time I hear such things i fear atheists even more.
Good. The bigger the fear, the further away you'll stay.
Some species of snails are hermaphroditic. That should give you nightmares for a week.
Ho-mose-xuality in the 21st century:
ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS–-–>>>>
"Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice. "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.
From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.
Marriage doesn't make you a couple love does me and my woman laugh married unhappy people 6months after saying I do
Not very coherent wouldn't you say?
Lol, Is that post a joke!?
"Marriage doesn't make you a couple love does"
i can't believe i'm agreeing with you. but of course, you're proving that g.ays should be allowed to marry when they are a loving couple. i agree.
At work rushing
"At work rushing"
I hope you didn't burn the fries.
Bodywork automobiles. Rushing typing and packing your mama throat
My mother died in 1985. Did you dig her up to do that?
You're posting at work? That's stealing isn't it? Sinner.
None of treatments of Dr Nicolosi are dangerous. It comprises of mostly counseling. By curing thousands living now without any problems from the therapy should be proof enough. I know one of the people that went to him for therapy. He is now cured and living a happy normal life and says that he has never been happier. So that's not spreading lies, that's telling a fact and not something I've just read or heard. I'm done with this conversation because until someone admits they have a problem and wants help, it is pointless to converse with them. I know that from dealing with a friend who had a drug problem. Know that I don't hate gays and do not condone people harming them. I will pray for them daily.
Pfffft! 'Get back in the closet! There, you're cured!'
you can't cure g.ays. he's still g.ay, just suppressing his natural desires. poor guy is being taught to loathe himself. sad.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I have a "problem".
"None of treatments of Dr Nicolosi are dangerous. It comprises of mostly counseling. By curing thousands living now without any problems from the therapy should be proof enough."
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.
Again the experts don't agree. Because of the aggressive promotion of efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy, a number of medical, health, and mental health professional organizations have issued public statements about the dangers of this approach. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Sorry, but I have worked with many who were trapped in the gay lifestyle and are still happy they gave it up. Orientation is not a choice but, what you do with your orientation is a choice. Certainly the vast majority are very happy with their life style and it matters not what the orientation is. When any lifestyle gets to the point where you believe it is wrong the best thing to do is not ignore it but, change what is causing the internal or external conflict.
"Sorry, but I have worked with many who were trapped in the gay lifestyle and are still happy they gave it up. Orientation is not a choice but, what you do with your orientation is a choice. Certainly the vast majority are very happy with their life style and it matters not what the orientation is. When any lifestyle gets to the point where you believe it is wrong the best thing to do is not ignore it but, change what is causing the internal or external conflict."
Before spewing your nonsense again, why don't you do some research on the imapct of the prejudice and bigotry shown towards this minority group. If gays have people like you telling the it's wrong no wonder they felt bad because your nonsense isn't based on real facts. Oh and also look up what it means to be a bisexual. LMAO!
fred, they aren't happy. they keep telling themselves that because the "therapists" tell them that. you can't be happy going against your s,exual orientation.
It is hard to say if the broken lifestyle was an orientation issue or not. One consistent pattern of poor lifestyle choices was in the area of attempting to establish relationships based on $ex, drugs or low self esteem. This pattern played across all orientations.
"One consistent pattern of poor lifestyle choices was in the area of attempting to establish relationships based on $ex, drugs or low self esteem. "
Sounds like Christianity
I think you need to do some research !:
"I'm not denying that bi$exual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bi$exual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."
I agree with you yet the big difference is that Christians recognize sin and know it is an offense to a Holy God. We even know that we will forever sin so we rely on the saving grace of Christ to cover our true nature.
@fred – " attempting to establish relationships based on $ex, drugs or low self esteem."
This is a perfect example of the misinformation of the religious right. They have a stereotype gay in mind which has no relation to the monogamous loving and caring relationships that are far more frequent then they want to admit, where the two happen to be the same gender. Because their book tells them it's an abomination they view all of them through the lens of perversion similar to the image of the drug addled blacks just waiting around every corner to r a p e your white women they had from the late 1800's to early 1900's. It had no basis in fact but was great to work up a crowd of white racists to vote for your candidate.
@fred – "We even know that we will forever sin so we rely on the saving grace of Christ to cover our true nature."
It is not God but we who define sin. Much of your posts here fred would garner you a death sentence in Iran since that is their definition of sin (blaspheming against Allah). I myself have never committed a sin worthy of death let alone incarceration, but only by the definition of the State and Country I was born. To make a claim that we are all sinners just by virtue of us being born is a horrible lie and one that has been used for centuries to control, abuse and fleece people of their persons and property. The only laws a democratic society should be concerned with are those that protect each individual in the society from trampling on others freedoms. There is a speed limit imposed on most roads to protect others from one individuals risky behavior that would put others in physical peril. It is not there because an invisible deity only some of the citizens worship says you shouldn't ever move faster than 30 mph. The Christian right are imposing their belief that God doesn't want people to be gay by passing legislation even though there is no evidence of any harm to either Christians marriages or to Christians in any way other than their claim, God doesn't like it. If you believe your God only wants you to drive 30mph then that is your choice to stay in the slow lane and live your life accordingly, just by the signs saying 65mph is allowable does not force you to step on the gas.
I was referring to my personal experience which was limited to people that sought out help for their broken lives through our ministry. Well adjusted people do not venture in.
"I was referring to my personal experience which was limited to people that sought out help for their broken lives through our ministry. Well adjusted people do not venture in."
That's the point stop condemning the whole based on a few. The gays and lesbians I know have been in very long term relationships 12- 25 years, they have children, they own their homes, they have good jobs and are part of their communities. All the Christian community wants to do is think about the sex part of their relationships and as we all should know sex alone doesn't make for a good relationship. It's why nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful relationship of a gay couple.
Simplest cure for se.xual immorality of all types is Agape love. Just tell yourself that you love your temptation as yourself and it dies down. I have used it to swerve women several times. Maybe the gays can use it to let go of other men.
Swerve? I'm glad you didn't hit any of them. They were likely running from you at the time. Just because women are in the crosswalk, you should not be tempted by them.
the only s.exual immorality that exists is r.ape and child m.olestation. other than that, s.ex is awesome, especially the dirty kind.
No wonder your booty stank
"I have used it to swerve women several times." You spelled "stalk" wrong.
Fellow Christians are misinformed. You can be gay and a Christians. Myself I am a proud Christian Lesbian.
Some advice? Lose the christian part.
i'm curious. how do you get past the bible telling it's followers to kill g.ays? serious question.
They cherry pick like other Christians.
Truth, do you have a response to yeahalright?
Non-believers contend this so called evidence about Jesus changing your life would have also happened if you explored Islam, Buddhism or many other religions, and it is really you who changed your life. I have never seen any Christian refute this statement.
"Since you claim your beliefs are based on logic, that is what I am expecting, logic."
You expect WAY too much from Chrisitans
I do not expect a logical response to this question from him or any Christian. I only say that because of his bold claims that his religious beliefs are based on logic and non-believers on this blog are not logical. The only people I ever see using nothing but logic are non-believers, and the only people I see using blind faith are the religious.
what is it with gays and atheists they keep repeating the same thing over and over and over...(and over) again?
like shellfish. LOL Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and set us free. we don't need to avoid that as the same thing with pork.
but I understand...is not convenience...is FOOLISHNESS that applyting their dirty mind, full of their corrupt "justice" think we will deny God and His Holy Scriptures..
like CNN and tis gay staff, anchors, taking bribery from LGBT dirty money....all to put up ridiculous articles like this nutjob above, pushing a point.
..have you guys seem the CNN take on balck church? stones, judgment and stones..and on the top of that, challenging what is sacred, applying their corrupted dirty political equality.
they say: "hey you! this commandment is not working anymore! we don't like it and is too out of fashion! lets GET rid of it!!
that is the way they think.
or atheists stating that the Bible says the world is flat (like all the other retarded talking points of atheists) LOL three thousand years before Galileo, Isiaah the prophet already referred to the world as "globe" and "sphere". The jewish people new the world was a globe thousands of years before Galileo....ahah
or th atheists, the most resentful, irrational and delusional samplles of human beings point to the passage when Satan show Jesus Christ, in a VISION all the world ("proof" that the world is flat! LOLaahahahaha)
can you guys believe it?
This people are so sinful and their minds are so dirty that they behave like 4 years old. Seriously. gays and atheists...they can't stand the Word of God. I would say some gays, many of them are not like that but atheists....pathetic.
..and we have to see CNN over and over again pushing to destroy, descredit, mock, ignore Christians and the Scriptures...
you will have to KILL us all.
get OVER IT
p.s.: and before you jump up and down of happiness for our killing, the BIBLE says the end of the days will be like that.
We WILL BE put to death and persecuted by you.
But He die for you as well. Nobody goes to heaven after death EXCEPT through Him.
no budhism, isla, the religion of the idol moon, no paganism, cults, etc nothing will be able to re-connect to God EXCEPT TROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
The Bible is perfect, confirmed by Science over and over again trhough the years and has no contradiction with so many authors from prophets, to tax collectors, kings, etc
The answers of Life is there. Do not listen to FLESH. resentment of atheists or disturbed emotions of those who want to force their lifestyle over us.
This Nation allow these kind of people have a voice. EXACTLY due the Christian foundation.
Imagine these bugs living in another Nation. One of those isla, hindu cults, etc...lol
P.S.; NONE OF YOUR INSULTS DOESNT "STICK" OHOHOH...you are FOOLS nothing more than that.
..guys, what about the slavery thing??
see?? (double team!) these guys are pathetic! ahahahahah 2×0
"stay out" of american politics? AHAHAHAHAHAH who is saying that? YOU?? ahahahahahahah
EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED PEOPLE get off the point once they can't deal with their ugliness. Typical of arrogant, emotionally abusers, psychos...building up the mockery over my english is the only to ignore their failure.
cowards do that.
psychos as well.
atheists usually are both and all is left is to mock my english language skills and ignore the rest....
"slavery", "flat earth" and all the other pearls are just too much to handle..LOL
and what about the "sweetheart" "stay away from politics"??? AHAHAHAHAH typical taliban who don't know how to loose...
I wish you would be in country without Christian foundation. You would be out of life, not politics...
so..be good, bow down and relax, cause we tolerate you. We've been doing that for centuries.
People: please don't feed the cut/paste troll.
"Seriously. gays and atheists...they can't stand the Word of God"
See all the replies to this troll and their lies on other pages. Obviously this person is so dense they have to repeat themselves over and over again. Keep up the good work of showing what is so wrong with your brainwashed cult.
Usually when someone is going "ahahahha" "ohoohoh" "ahahahah" "ohohoho", it's a good sign that they are off their meds.
Someone needs to learn how to write. And spell. My cat is more articulate.
Perverse are the antics of people who do abnormalize the base-roots normalities! The USA cannot stand uponn those who deem perdiscious and dumbfounded realities over normalized reality itself! Hate will come to those of the future and in full bloom will the dice be cast upon the lands! Your children and their children's children will all have to live in that which you made of the world's realities! How does it feel for you parents of today to give to your children and your grandchildren and even great grandchildren the realities of abnormalisms causes? I am Free of this world's onward slaughterings for I have no child for this world to play with! Peace though is the branch to be leveraged and hope the candlestick to be lit with faiith in realities' common divisions!
"How does it feel for you parents of today to give to your children and your grandchildren and even great grandchildren the realities of abnormalisms causes?"
Yeah prejudice bigots thought African Americans and whites marrying were abnormal but the US Supreme Court ruled and proved those bigots wrong.
Serpent, change you're name to Koo-Koo. it'll be helpful to the readers of your posts if they know you're insane before they start reading.
Your candleabra tactilitarianism will ever mare the tracks of time! To always blame religion for all people's ills is pure crap!
Your incorrect sentence syntax and deplorable use of "big" words that have no relevance to the topic is pure crap.
I can do it to.
Religate your religiusism to the rear of the minds eye to defecate the delusion of god.
See its easy.
What's your problem? I like my name and will not change it no matter what pickle jerks say!
'candleabra tactilitarianism'? What the hell...
@sam He must be watching reruns of Liberace.
@ sofa king stupid
Big gesture coming from a sofa's bed! I crown you oh King of all sofa beds! (Blithering idiot U R )
...your sofa king smart.... Your previous post put me in my place...lol
@Bet – LOL
"To always blame religion for all people's ills is pure crap!"
Religion has killed more people on this planet than anything else, it fuels hatred and bigotry towards others that don't agree with their religion. You're the one full of crap. LOL!
"Religion has killed more people on this planet than anything else" FICTION & A LIE
"it fuels hatred and bigotry towards others that don't agree with their religion." A BOLD-FACED LIE
Secularism has thru the ages killed many more people than any monotheism ever had or has and will ever do! Your mind is sick with the latencies of those who have rewrote the history books to make them into being fairytales for the today-time fairies' pleasures! I hate things in this world of seductiveness! What I hate are the things humanities do against the normal wants and needs of venerable socialisms! If the dipsticks want to plunge each other go at it in your on lands and leave the rest of this lands' yearning for normalism alone!
""Religion has killed more people on this planet than anything else" FICTION & A LIE
"it fuels hatred and bigotry towards others that don't agree with their religion." A BOLD-FACED LIE"
Now look who is lying keep showing your stupidity on this blog, it's hysterical and entertaining. LMAO!
@ Yeah Right. There have been just as many psychologist that have said it is a disorder and can be cured. Look up Dr. Nicolosi. He has cured thousands of people that said they were gay. It actually has been proven time and time again , but the liberal media will not put that out there because it does not benefit their agenda. Again I will continue to pray for all of those who are afflicted with this disorder..
Assuming you are straight, at what point did you make the decision to be? What factors did you evaluate in making this decision? How old were you? Have you second-guessed your decision at all? How do you know you made the correct decision?
"There have been just as many psychologist that have said it is a disorder and can be cured. Look up Dr. Nicolosi."
Because of the aggressive promotion of efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy, a number of medical, health, and mental health professional organizations have issued public statements about the dangers of this approach. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Keep trying to spread your lies but those therapies have been proven dangerous and are actually outlawed in come countries. Duh!
You mean "cured". You do know that California, where that hack that you mentioned works, is banning these clinics?
Not a disorder. No cure. You sight one nut job. Show me one study or doctor with the same results or info who is not Christian...you have none. Keep your wishful thoughts (prayer) to your self and your sky daddy.
Lots of animals mate with one lifetime partner a dominate male will keep his territory and females as long as possible many birds are mono partners and marriage is different in all cultures
LOL that was supposed to be some. LOL!
Lots of animals exhibit hom-ose-xual behavior too BamaDaniel.
That is not marriage, animals have no concept of marriage dipsh•t. Monogamy in nature is not proof backing your idiotic statement. G ays can be monogamous as well. Pwnd.
"There have been just as many psychologist that have said it is a disorder and can be cured."
wrong. by and large, the psychological community says being g.ay is normal. there is nothing to cure. you can find a few christian fundie psychologists that support your h.omophobic view - but they, like you, are kooks warped by their religion.
Hey stupid not all cultures call for mono marriage.rest of that post was for booty he brought up lions not being married
your premise that animals get married is just... dumb. proof. evidence pls. site your sources.
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