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Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Readers responded to a professor's views on the issue.
May 17th, 2012
02:10 PM ET

Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - and, by extension, same-sex marriage - right?

A guest "My Take" post we ran this week from a college psychology professor who has a background in religion (he was ordained a Roman Catholic priest, for instance) challenged that conventional wisdom.

The professor, Daniel A. Helminiak, argues that foes of same-sex marriage have assigned modern, ethics-laden meanings to biblical passages on homosexuality to make it seem like the Bible unequivocally condemns it. In fact, Helminiak proposes, the original meanings of such passages about gays are at the very least ambiguous.

The piece has generated an avalanche of response: 10,000 Facebook shares, 6,000 comments, 200 tweets and a couple of blog posts.  Giving the other side its say, here's a rebuttal roundup of critical reactions from across the Internet:

Kevin DeYoung, a conservative Christian blogger, calls Helminiak's piece "amazing for including so many bad arguments in so little space." DeYoung, who leads a Reformed Church in Michigan, challenges Helminiak's argument that the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't condemn homosexuality per se.

"Jude 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities 'indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,' " DeYoung writes.

"Even the NRSV, translation of choice for the mainline (and the version Helminiak seems to be using), says 'pursued unnatural lust,' ” he continues, referring to the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

"Clearly, the sins of Sodom lived in infamy not simply because of violent aggression or the lack of hospitality, but because men pursued sex with other men."

DeYoung also takes issue with our guest blogger's argument that the Greek term the New Testament writer Paul uses when describing homosexuality, para physin, has been misconstrued by modern translators to mean "unnatural." Helminiak says that the original term does not contain ethical judgment and should be translated instead as "atypical" or "unusual."

Absurd, says DeYoung. "We know Paul considered same-sex intercourse an ethical violation, and not simply something uncommon. ... (N)otice what Paul goes on to say: 'Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error' (NRSV)."

DeYoung writes, "When you read the whole verse, Helminiak’s 'nonethical' argument becomes implausible. Paul thought homosexuality not just unusual, but wrong, a sinful error deserving of a 'due penalty.' '"

On Facebook, Helminiak’s piece, "My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality," provoked a mix of positive and negative response. Some of the latter was very, very negative.

"The following article appeared on the front page of CNN. ... I was so grieved and troubled, I had to respond to the writer," Vince Smith wrote on his Facebook page Thursday. "This is what is most tragic and terrifying about beliefs on homosexuality in this nation.

"When you take Scripture and twist it to 'reinterpet' what it means, and then teach others, you are literally playing with fire ... eternal fire," Smith continued. "I pray that The Lord has mercy on Mr. Helminiak."

Readers' comments on the piece included much criticism, too (although there was plenty of support for Helminiak’s argument).

"Daniel's argument misses the glaringly obvious condemnation of gay sex in the Bible," writes a commenter named Mike Blackadder. "Catholics believe it is a mortal sin when it is premarital, masturbatory, and when we deny the possibility of conceiving children (i.e., through the use of contraceptives).

"Unfortunately, the faith suggests that gay sex falls under the same category as these others and if we interpret differently for gays, then we must accept a new interpretation of these other acts for the same reason," Blackadder writes. "The corollary is that if your faith accepts hetero impurities (such as contraceptives or [masturbation]) but condemns gays, then you may be rightfully accused of hypocrisy."

Many commenters avoided quibbling with Helminiak’s logic, instead taking aim at the piece's very existence.

"Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want.

"You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are."

On Twitter, most RTs, or retweets, endorsed the piece, but not all. "Another pastor,"  tweeted @BarbRoyal "trying to pretend the ugly parts out of the Xtian (Christian) bible. ..."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments • Gay marriage

soundoff (3,580 Responses)
  1. Bad Religion

    Christianity, the meth addiction throughout the ages.. and judging by the believers commments here, I would say some rehabilitation is in order.
    So many believers are dismissive of science despite the fact the computer they are using is totally based on science and our theories of electrodynamics and material sciences (ALL THEORIES yet your computer still works). It's just ironic that they will diss science when their entire world is surrounded by it and not realize it. Kind of the same way they pick and choose which passages of the bible they like to follow and completely ignore entire segments and still think they have complete knowledge on it. Religion seriously must kill more brain cells than pot or alcohol ever could touch, either that or your parents and teachers seriously were delinquent in assuring you a decent education.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
  2. James PDX

    I am against most abortions. Therefore, I cannot worship God, as he is highly pro abortion. Just look at the once thriving metropolises of Sodom and Gomorrah. God aborted every single fetus in both cities. No true pro-lifer could every back God again.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • edwardo

      Not to mention the passover, the great flood, the walls of Jericho... the list is nearly endless of Yahweh's atrocities.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • jungleboo

      Must be a troubled dude...

      May 17, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  3. carlos333777

    Humans should be allowed to freely choose as long as they do not try to impose their behaviors on others. Whether you believe in GOD or in the Bible is of absolutely no eternal consequence. Man has an infinite gift ann capacity for absolute stupidity. And this issue is a salient example of this. No matter what man does or says GOD is sitting on His eternal throne forever and ever. I grieve that I probably will not see man's ultimate expression of his assinine qualities: the destruction of our planet.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • edwardo

      Are you smoking something illegal?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • jungleboo

      What a bizarre post. Wishin' and hoping' and dreaming' and praying' for all-out catastrophe is the work of terrorists.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
    • The Witness Elijah

      The problem with your argument, Carlos, is that we all impose our behaviors on others, whether we realize it or not. Any action we make in our day to day lives can influence others to follow along, whether our friends or family, people at work, even random people on the streets...how do you think riots get started? We don't have to open our mouths to impose our behaviors. We do it on our own, and just look at the examples we usually set. No wonder we've made such a mockery of this existence God gifted us. But fret not, Carlos, I'm quite sure you'll get to witness the end first hand.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • edwardo

      @Elijah – I just wish your god would come and take all of you Xtians, your books, your temples, and leave the rest of us sane people here to live out our lives.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • jungleboo

      @ Elijah the witless. Fortune telling AGAIN?

      May 17, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • The Witness Elijah

      I just think its sad that you guys are so much more interested in the last sentence I wrote than all that preceded it.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:46 pm |
  4. Religulous

    The bible no more reflects the will of god than any other book of fairy tales.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
  5. Paul

    Not sure who in this blog annoys me more: The Pharisees or the atheists. The Pharisees have a relationship not so much with Y'sua (Jesus), but with a book-a book canonized by the early Catholic church. Funny how some Protestants are more Catholic than Catholics.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • momoya

      Your arrogance is pretty funny considering you don't have one tiny shred of proof that your beliefs are any closer to the truth than anyone else's.. If there's one thing god-believers are, it's arrogant.. Just think how much hubris it takes to claim that you are part of the central plan of the creator of the universe.. LOL!!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Say it again in case dummys missed it first time

      May 17, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Kevin

      Pharisee are Jews so of course they do not have a relationship with jesus.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Kevin

      Bama you never answered me. Should we outlaw education and industrialism to protect the continuation of life?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • Paul

      Kevin, my point is that there are Christian "pharisees" who read the bible as if they are lawyers reading a law book, and use it to judge others.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • Kevin

      got it,lol agree

      May 17, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      No teach kids a boy is a boy ,a girl is a girl. Clean drinking water and plumbing helps continue life.in an emergency I'd rather ride in car to hospital than take a donkey to the local witch doctor

      May 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Kevin

      Bama you said it was a continuation of life issue. industrialization and education lead to a decrease in births. how are they not the same

      May 17, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
  6. Reason77

    If you believe enslaving Canadians is wrong then you must agree that the following verse should not be taken literally.

    Leviticus 25:44 ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations
    around you; From them you may buy slaves.”

    Given that Leviticus 25:44 must not be taken literally, then you must agree that it is also possible, repeat possible, that Leviticus 18:22 ‘Do not have s-e-xual relations with a man as one does with a woman' should not be taken literally.

    If you are unwilling to accept the above, then sadly your faith is blind and you are drinking the Kool-Aid.

    Otherwise, let us all be rational and recognize that Daniel A. Helminiak, simply suggested that believers carefully consider the possibility that their human understanding of scripture with respect to gay issues might not be completely accurate and give his ideas some thoughtful consideration.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • edwardo

      Levitcus is the demise of the bible. I'm so glad that chapter is in the book.. it really exemplifies how proposterous the whole book truly is!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
  7. Kevin

    sorry for the repost but if we could just get more people to call or write their elected officials which this idea we could stop all this inane arguing

    Why dont we end this all right now.
    Everyone agree to have the government ONLY recognize civil unions. If you want your relationship recognized by the gov't for legal reasons everyone must go to a gov't office and fill out the forms. IF you want to be MARRIED go to YOUR place of PERSONAL beliefs and take your vows. If I want to recognize you as MARRIED that is my choice, IF you want to recognize me as married that is YOUR choice.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • Kevin

      please if this makes since to you CALL your elected official. I beg you. For the love of god, do it

      May 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Kevin

      oops..sense

      May 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Don't need civil unions pass law you can put who you want over your legal affairs

      May 17, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • JWT

      It does not make any sense at all. The word married is in common usage and encompasses all quite satisfactorilly. I will write my elected rep to point that out.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • Kevin

      JWT, what does the word encompass? If it so obvious we would not be having this dicussion

      May 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • Kevin

      BAMA I dont understand what you are saying. please restate

      May 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
  8. Observer

    Faithful,

    God also said that eating lobsters is an abomination. Do you know any Christians who do that?

    God said that incense is an abomination. Why do we call the Magi the "WISE MEN"? They brought an ABOMINATION to the baby Jesus according to the Bible?

    Any answer other than HYPOCRISY?

    May 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Faithful

      Why do you hate God? Why do you have such a bad taste for the Bible and the thing of God? Who is Jesus Christ to you? I pray one day you will see the truth. I am praying for you.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why can't you refute what Observer just wrote, Faithful?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • sam

      Faithful, in order to make that prayer work, you need to pay full attention to it. And by that I mean, get off the internet.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • jaketinback

      Yeah. Learn the difference between what was considered under the "law" at the time versus what it means to be under "grace".

      When you can explain the difference to me and what each means we will continue.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Red Lobster, House of Abominations

      We have some wonderful specials tonight on abominations. Come on by.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • El Lobo

      your children should be stoned to death for not listening.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Observer

      Faithful,

      Trying to avoid answering questions fools no one but yourself.

      Please answer the questions this time.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • ReadJC

      @FaithFul why do Christians think the OT is still law when Christ gave us a new covenant and the OT which only ever applied to Jews died on the cross with Christ?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • Red Lobster, House of Abominations

      Would you like some Jesus Blood wine to go with your abominations? We do have abomination bibs to help keep you from being spattered with sin if you like.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • jaketinback

      Observer.....Speaking of avoiding a question, still waiting for your answer regarding "under law" and "under grace"...Stumped are we?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • Observer

      jaketinback,

      Sorry, I did miss your question. I have no idea what the difference is and I'd bet MOST Christians wouldn't either.

      Please explain why God was so worried about being "politically correct" when he gave his commands for people supposedly FOREVER.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Peter Phalangist

      You know what the really cool thing is about your interpretation, ReadJC? It's that Jesus ended the laws against homosexuality along with all those other Old Testament laws like shellfish and beards.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • jungleboo

      No one is hating an unknowable and indescribable concept. You are "arrogant" enough to imagine that you are defending and supporting the viewpoint of a god. Pretty childish. Your prayers been answered regularly? Do you get what you wish for? Should we be afraid of you?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • vbscript2

      Observer, the answer is that Christians do not now and have not ever observed the Mosaic Law. Christians have no such rule against eating lobsters or anything else for that matter. Please read the book of Galatians and, especially, the book of Hebrews. These both explain, the latter in great detail, why Christians are not and have not ever been under the Mosaic Law. Also, FYI, the Bible does not state that incense is an abomination, even in the Mosaic Law. In fact, it's use was a required part of Jewish worship. There was an alter of incense in the temple. What you're probably thinking of is where some form of pagan worship that involved incense was called an abomination, as were all forms of idolatry.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • jaketinback

      Observer...Well at least you are honest. I cannot have an intelligent conversation with you regarding the Bible, specifically, for instance, why "not eating shellfish" no longer applies, until you are able to distinguish the difference between being under the Mosaic law and being under Christs grace and what that means for each of us today. Do a little research and I believe you will be able to answer the question.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Observer

      vbscript2,

      – Isaiah 1:13 “Incense is an abomination to me.” [God]

      May 17, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • Observer

      jaketinback,

      Speaking of intelligent conversation,

      please explain why all the other nonsensical Mosaic laws got thrown out but condeming being gay was kept. Sorry to see the Ten Commandments go.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • vbscript2

      Observer, have you read that whole chapter? The chapter says that the worship of the Jewish people (which included burning incense, hence its mention) was an abomination to God because they were not following His commands. Please read passages in their context before quoting them.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm |
    • Observer

      vbscript2,

      "Incense is an abomination"

      Does that mean: "I like incense but yours stinks"? or "I hate incense"?

      May 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
  9. Garth

    Most if not all Bible bashers have never read it. You comments, then, are insincere.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Prove your claim.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • sbp

      Really? Did you conduct the survey, or are you relying on a peer reviewed study in a scholarly journal? Anecdotally, I would wager most bashers have read it cover to cover, like me. When they were younger and more naive.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Brandon

      In my experiences, non-religious and atheists are way better-versed in the Bible than any random Christian. They seem unaware that the Bible tells them to stone disobedient children or that eating shellfish is an abomination.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • edwardo

      My mother was a pentecostal preacher, you baphoon! You don't think I've read that book? REALLY? Your assumption makes you look like a fool !!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • Peter Phalangist

      Studies have repeatedly shown that atheists usually know more about religion than religious people.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • jungleboo

      eduardo, calm down, your post about your mother, a pentecostal creature, and your name calling all in one sentence make you look less than divine.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • vbscript2

      "In my experiences, non-religious and atheists are way better-versed in the Bible than any random Christian. They seem unaware that the Bible tells them to stone disobedient children or that eating shellfish is an abomination."

      Wow, that's really interesting. I have read the Bible cover to cover and I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about Christians stoning children or that Christians eating shellfish is an abomination. In my experience, atheists on these boards often don't seem to understand the difference between the old (Jewish) law and the new (Christian) law. They are not the same thing.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • Humanist11

      Actually, many if not most atheists were formerly religious and evolved into atheists because they knew the bible so well. I'm not trying to make a smart alec comment. I know quite a few and they know their way around the bible. If you are confident in your religious choice you should sit down with an atheist (with beer is best) and debate the issue respectfully. You will probably find that he or she has valid points that Christians ought to be able to answer. The atheist will reveal major contradictions in scripture, provable science that goes against scripture and a thorough knowledge of the bible. The theist position always comes down to simply having faith, atheists are being manipulated by the devil or you were never a real believer. Try it sometime.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Jon

      Most Christians have never read the Bible either.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then why do clowns continue to quote Leviticus as some sort of evidence of anything?

      May 17, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • edwardo

      @Jungleboo – I'm not here to look divine.. I'm here to get my marital rights. So, no, I will not calm down.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • WobbleBob

      I hope you get what you want, but based on personal experience, marriage is not as amazing as you might think. Personally, I think Christians deserve it.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      "In my experiences, non-religious and atheists are way better-versed in the Bible than any random Christian"
      That proves nothing, in contrary, it reveals only the co/ndition of the heart of the one who reads it.
      .
      Satan himself knows Scriptures very well. But is his knowledge of them unto salvation? No, so it's not for those who read it with wrong motives in their hearts.
      God is a jealous God, and He WILL NOT reveal His truth to those with impure hearts, whose motives are any other then to know Him, to love Him, to worship Him and fellowship with Him in Spirit and in Truth. To them who go about to read His word with impure motives, He gives the spirit of confusion , so even while they read, the blinders are on their eyes! So your boast of knowing the Scriptures avails you noting. God is veiled from the ungodly, but to those of humble and contrite hearts He is near and to them He reveals the mysteries of His Word by His Spirit, who is the Spirit of Truth, whom the god-less world does not know, nor can it ever know.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
  10. Faithful

    Read Psalm 103. Psalm 23. The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Read the Bible. It will change you life and you will see Truth.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Brandon

      Hey you forgot all the horribly crazy verses where god tells you to kill disobedient children and that it's okay to own slaves. Not to mention that eating shrimp are an abomination. Did those verses set you free too?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • sam

      You mean the person who posts here under the handle 'Truth'? I don't necessarily want to see them.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • momoya

      And if you REALLY study the bible and its origins and history, you'll become an atheist.. I did it and you can too.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • edwardo

      I just left this post for the last moron. My mother was a pentecostal preacher. I've read the book from cover to cover, more than once, let me tell ya. Where Xtians get the idea athiests can't read, shows their ideas are moronic and chaotic.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • jungleboo

      When you only read the B over and over again, and read other people's analyses of the same, and listen only to music about the same, and hang out only with others who gorge on the same, you invariably will become a very narrow and bigoted person, and not even know it. THAT's why Xtians (who made that up?) have a bad reputation among thinking people.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
  11. Lee Ann from Canada

    I would just like to say... "God doesn't make mistakes" if you believe in God of any sort. Therefore why is it that we as human beings have decided to judge and condem anyone? If you judge – you shall be judged. If everyone lived simply by the Golden Rule we would all live in harmony with each other. It seems most "Religions" have forgotten this simple life lesson. There have always been Gays in this world... And why should we have to put a specific name to this gender. It makes no sense to me... We are all human with hearts. That's it thats all.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Wayne 135

      Lee Ann, I hate to burst your bubble but the bible states quite strongly that if a man joins with a man like he would with a woman it is an aboniation unto God. Old testament by the way. Jesus stated that he came to earth not to change any laws of the old testament but to bring forgiveness to man who lives in sin.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • God

      'Aboniations' are totally ok. See, I left a few loopholes in that book.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • Wayne 135

      Lee Ann and all the rest of you who are not aware of this. Read Leviticus 18, 22. If a man lies with a man as he does with a woman it is detestable. End of question. You cannot be more specific than this verse.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your bible doesn't matter.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • ReadJC

      @wayne, wrong on both counts. Christ came to full fill the prophecies of the old testament as well as Gods law. The OT is made of the Law of Moses, which includes Leviticus and the Law of God, mostly the ten commandments. Christ in his Gospels counters Moses several times and also makes it clear that his new covenant replaces the Law of Moses.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • phoodphite

      @God – agreed. A lot of loopholes. And maybe most importantly to note for Christians, the characters credited with writing the New Testament were the very people Jesus told that they always missed his point.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • jungleboo

      Wayne, the B was not written in English. Try to find out the name s of the translators who keep coming up with new words for the ancient and essentially impossible-to-translate-precisely tongue. Every language translation is only an approximation. And keep your eye on all the other stuff that you try to sweep under the carpet as No Longer Relevant.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
  12. Foreverwar

    I think some christians are against men being together with other men because it goes against their long church tradition of men being intimate with alter boys.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Only catholics, and closet gays

      May 17, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
  13. Dirk Diggler

    I wonder if Dan Gilgoff is cracking himself up over putting "homosexual rebuttals" in the title?

    May 17, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Probably, I am , but I'm on good kush

      May 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  14. PRISM 1234

    Let God be true, and every man who opposes himself a liar!

    May 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Observer

      Most of those who claim to support God are HYPOCRITES or else they'd follow all of the Bible.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Did that makes sense to you when you typed it, Prissy?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • Prism 1234

      Maybe if I had actually passed the third grade, my posts might make more sense

      May 17, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      You said
      "Prism 1234

      Maybe if I had actually passed the third grade, my posts might make more sense"
      You stoop pretty low to hide your yellow belly, hm?

      But you give yourself away....as always!

      You couldn't copy me even if you wanted too..LOL!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Who would want "too", you doofus?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Prism 1234

      Oh real Prism, I cannot hold a candle to your brilliance. I hereby retire and let you do your own self-inflicted comedy!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Go to sleep, Tom.Tom! Your bedtime. Don't forget the hanky! 😉

      May 17, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Prissy, if you were any dumber, we'd have to water you.

      May 17, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
  15. tl123

    It matters not what the Bible says. In the US, we have separation of Church and State.

    You cannot deprive one group of people the Rights given to another.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • greg

      why do atheists want to marry, its a religious ceremony I just dont get it,

      May 17, 2012 at 7:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, dearie, it isn't. No 'religious ceremony' is recognized as a legal marriage; the state issues a marriage license, not the church.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Travis Bickle

      I think the phrase "I don't get it" fits you very well in so many wayss, greg.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Brandon

      Wow, Greg is really, really stupid.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Phos Phorus

      With marriage comes tax benefits, medical benefits, economic benefits, etc. There are many reasons as to why a marriage may be in the best interest of a couple, and they could all be financial or medical in nature.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • want2believe

      @Greg. Are you married? Did you get married because you love your god or because you love your male/female partner? Additionally there are 1000+ provisions that take marital status into account. Please use the intelligence you believe your god blessed you with.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • L

      For the Christians there is no separation. We should vote and act in accordance with our faith. Whether in private or public. We should respectfully disagree with things we believe to be incompatible with our faith. We should vote and then obey the laws of the land, and pray for those in authority. We should also expect opposition to what we believe as we are taught in scripture. That should not prompt shock, surprise or aggression.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      FIne. Then you can butt out of the argument about who gets to marry whom. You don't have to approve of gay marriage; you can simply avoid participating in one yourself. That is the extent of your authority in the matter.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
  16. Paul

    Jesus taught us to forgive. It is imperative that we forgive because we ourselves are foregiven. Jesus taught us not to judge others. Some people are too worried about the sty in anothers eye and are unaware of the beam in their own. In a world where a holocaust can happen, why would anyone concern themselves so passionately with such a relatively trivial matter? Jesus empathized with others and yet most of what I hear on this matter is anything but empathy. I like that Jesus surrounded himself with sinners and tax collectors. I feel comfortable and right at home with him given my own faults and shortcomings.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Glenn

      I appreciate your post, however I think that Jesus, while he loved sinners and tax collectors as his brothers, differentiated between their intrinsic worth and value as humans and the sin of their actions. I feel safe that he would have advised them to follow the commandments of God, which he summarized under his own commandment.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Paul, Jesus went to the sinners because He seen their need. He told pharisees they see themselves as being well e.i. not sinners, so they don't' need physician, but the sick do.
      So He went to the sick. But every one of them that encountered Jesus Christ, forsook his ways, and did not continue in his/her sins. When the woman caught in adultery faced Him, when He helped her, He said to her "neither do I condemn you...GO AND SIN NO MORE.".But "go and sin no more" is the part opposers of God shun away from, because they love their sin, and want to keep doing them, yet be accepted by God. Don't fall in trap of satan, Paul! If you say you believe in Christ, you must believe all aspects of Him, not only love. Book of Revelations is written for God's people as an instruction and for the lost as a warning . Our God is a God of love and of consuming fire! Unless you ar willing to accept this God, you are not knowing God of whom the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of Truth testifies!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • Humanist11

      I'm worried about religious extremists ending the world. Make no mistake, the conflict between the middle east and the west is about religion. Each side is emboldened by the holy books they subscribe to. Both sides will die for their religious beliefs. It is only a matter of time until a religious terrorist group obtains a nuclear weapon and blows up a major western city. The Christians will feel obligated to retailiate in kind or with such massive force that no middle eastern country will have any freedom. It would make WWII look like a small battle. All of this over man made fairy tales. No, religion is not trivial.

      May 17, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
  17. Dante

    Thou shalt not commit christianity or be islamic. That should be the only commandment.

    May 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
  18. Faithful

    Marriage is between one man and one woman. Anything outside of that is sin. God designed marriage. God's Word... God's Authority. Case Closed.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • brian

      PREACH!

      May 17, 2012 at 6:59 pm |
    • Sane Person

      When God says it in court, he may have legal standing. Until then, you can chat with your make-believe friend all you want, in the privacy of your own home and/or place of worship.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Observer

      No one who gets married can ever divorce except for adultery.

      If you mate beats you or abuses you in any way, you have to stay married as long as they don't cheat. NO DIVORCE. The Bible says so.

      Case closed.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Dante

      Case closed? I don't think so. Who made you the spokesperson for your make believe god? You are a weak minded idiot that should not be allowed to vote or speak. Your genitals should be revoked.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • Faithful

      Has anyone on this site read the Bible? Searched out Christianity? Christianity makes all the pieces fit. It really does. And what is the best part is that there is hope. Real HOPE!! Only found in Jesus Christ.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's only hope to those who are intent on depriving others of their legal rights.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:05 pm |
    • Faithful

      One thing I challenge everyone on. Pick up the Bible. Read it. And see who God really is. There seems to be some confusion of things and some assumptions. Read the Bible. It can stand for itself. It's God's Word.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Virgil

      Easy Dante...or perhaps the 8th ring 10th Bolge calls upon you.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Observer

      Faithful,

      Speaking of reading the Bible, here's what Jesus said about marriage:

      – Mark 10:11-12 “And He [Jesus] said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her and if a woman divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

      You have read the Bible, right?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Victoria

      Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. Keep you religious beliefs to yourself. You obviously can't think for yourself. "Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who need strength in numbers." Jesse Ventura

      May 17, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • Faithful

      Tom, Tom, Piper's Son:
      Explain you statement please. What do you mean depriving people of legal rights?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your bible's and your god's definition of marriage is irrelevant in a secular nation of laws.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @faithful

      I've read the bible. Many times actually, and sorry it only makes all the pieces fit if you read it trying to fit everything together. The preconceptions lead to the interpretations that fit what you want it to. That's why there's thousands of sects of christianity alone that all think they have the correct interpretation.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Johnnnn

      You are trespassing on the rights of Americans when you use your 1800 year old, unprovable, contradictory scriptures as law.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There's no confusion. You simply believe the passages that suit you, Faithful.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Faithful

      Observer,
      Marriage is for life. This is God's plan for marriage. There are exceptions and reasons that are Biblical for someone to get a divorce. See, marriage is not supposed to be taken lightly. When you say I do. It is till death.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Dante

      @Faithful I was raised for 20 years in a christian school going to church and I have read the bible in many translations including the septuagint. I have never felt or seen anything that made the 'pieces fit together'. If I box up a puzzle that has been cut up to create a picture, it is easy to say that they make sense when you put them in place. You are fooled. The only reason this religion has survived is because of centuries of ritualistic persecution and influence of weak minded sheep.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Faithful sez: "Marriage isn't to be taken lightly." Then why are you opposed to gays getting married? They want to be legally committed to each other. They want to have families.

      Do you really not see the ridiculous nature of your argument?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Faithful

      It seems that most people on this blog have a sour taste for God and the Bible. What is your reason, not just accusation, but reason why this is? Why do you hate God? Did you know that God is loving, all powerful, and sovereign? And that is just the beginning of it! He is so AWESOME!! He is my life.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Observer

      Faithful,

      So if you are say 20-years-old and have a faithful husband who abuses you and your kids, you just have to spend the rest of your life married to him.

      How compassionate. Ever hear of the Golden Rule?

      May 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Faithful

      I can't hate something I don't believe in. So no I don't hate god, because I don't think he even exists.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • DTracy

      Perhaps you would cite that in the Bible for us please.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • Faithful

      Piper's Son,
      Again. Marriage is between a man and a woman. PERIOD! Sorry. Those who want man to man or woman to woman marriage I will not support. A marriage is to be honoring to God. Hom-ose-xual marriages are not honoring to God. He calls them an Abmonination in his sight. We might as well agree to disagree at this point.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • masterochi

      If you investigate what marriage was to the ancient writers of the Bible, you will find that harems were the norm. Men could have as many wives as they could afford. Where does it say that David or Solomon was sinning by having thousands of wives?

      However, none of the Old Testament matters. We are not judged by the Old Testament, but by the Grace of Christ which forgives all sin. Are you going to Hell because you eat shrimp or pork? I do not think so.

      And if God is truely God, why does He need your assistance in punishing sinners? Is Vengance yours' or God's?

      All have sinned, and all are forgiven by Grace. Frankly, I think many church leaders were gay but will be in heaven.

      Lastly, dosen't God get to decide, not you? I happen to be straight, but I have gay friends and relatives and I can not believe that God will condemn them for the lust in their heart but forgive the lust of heteros. ALL have sinned. All are forgiven by Grace of Christ.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yippee for you, Faithful. So what? Just because you think your god is AWESOME (and really, are you 12?), it doesn't mean you can use your beliefs to deny rights to others in a secular nation.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • sam

      God has no authority in the courts of this nation. Therefore, no one gives a rat's ass how you define marriage.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, you're sorry, all right. Nobody cares that you think it's wrong. If you don't want to have a gay marriage, then don't marry a gay. Other than that, you have no more say about the matter than you and your ilk did about slavery.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Dante

      I don't hate God any more than I hate Zeus or Set or Mickey freakin Mouse. He DOESN"T EXIST!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • God

      Faithful: you're an abomination in my sight. Begone.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • L

      @Faithful, be reminded that the Bible says that our beliefs are foolishness to those who do not believe. You will not make an argument that will change the mind of those who disagree. What you've gotten from your relationship with God, belongs exclusively to you. No one can take it from you and not everyone will understand it or appreciate it. Respect those who respond, even if they show you none in return.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Matthew Smith

      Agree 100%, but there should be civil unions. Maybe we should stop calling it marriage. Too many people keep putting the two together. Most people are pro gay "marriage" because of the equality and tax benefits. Besides, I don't need a church to confirm the fact that I love the man I am with, I just don't think its fair they we are double taxed, I can't become a US citizen if married, but he can become a Canadian if he wanted. The US is so far behind in so many places. Take a lesson from Canada.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • JWT

      Your particular view of the bible allplies only to you and those that follow that particular brand of faith. It does nto and should not apply to anyone else.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
  19. Bible just a theory

    YOU so-called devout Christians don't even obey your own founder! JESUS prohibits DIVORCE in all cases except for marital unfaithfulness (by the woman of course). Yet even the most fundie churches allow "no fault" divorces. And Catholics get around this by allowing annulements, even after 20 years or more of marriage. If they didn't, then there would be a stampede for the church exits!.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  20. Sane Person

    I think I'll remain grounded in fact, and not take moral positions based on a book of supposed quotes from the invisible bearded sky fairy of 2000 years ago.

    May 17, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • greg

      Well unfortunately most of your facts are based on scientific hypotheses, which means a best guess, So a Sky fairy or a best guess, you have yours and I have mine.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:09 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @greg

      You forgot to mention that science tests its guesses to see if they are actually correct. A hypothesis never becomes a theory without intense testing and scrutiny in attempts to disprove it. So yes science is more reliable rather than looking at translations of translations of copies of translations of a book and merely saying "god did it".

      May 17, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • El Lobo

      Yeah because 10 billion species really fit into a boat!!!!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • sam

      Jesus Christ, greg. Do you really think 'scientific hypotheses, which means a best guess' is anywhere close to accurate? Both your school system and your parents have failed you. You should sue them all.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • JP0

      One of the differences between science and religion is that a scientist is willing to change his understanding of the world in the face of new facts while a religious believer accepts only facts that support his beliefs.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
    • El Lobo

      Solid JP0, perfect!

      May 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • Observer

      sam,

      Right. It's much better to accept the Bible telling us about talking serpents and unicorns and that the ratio pi is equal to 3.0 for instance.

      May 17, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.