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Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Readers responded to a professor's views on the issue.
May 17th, 2012
02:10 PM ET

Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - and, by extension, same-sex marriage - right?

A guest "My Take" post we ran this week from a college psychology professor who has a background in religion (he was ordained a Roman Catholic priest, for instance) challenged that conventional wisdom.

The professor, Daniel A. Helminiak, argues that foes of same-sex marriage have assigned modern, ethics-laden meanings to biblical passages on homosexuality to make it seem like the Bible unequivocally condemns it. In fact, Helminiak proposes, the original meanings of such passages about gays are at the very least ambiguous.

The piece has generated an avalanche of response: 10,000 Facebook shares, 6,000 comments, 200 tweets and a couple of blog posts.  Giving the other side its say, here's a rebuttal roundup of critical reactions from across the Internet:

Kevin DeYoung, a conservative Christian blogger, calls Helminiak's piece "amazing for including so many bad arguments in so little space." DeYoung, who leads a Reformed Church in Michigan, challenges Helminiak's argument that the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't condemn homosexuality per se.

"Jude 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities 'indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,' " DeYoung writes.

"Even the NRSV, translation of choice for the mainline (and the version Helminiak seems to be using), says 'pursued unnatural lust,' ” he continues, referring to the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

"Clearly, the sins of Sodom lived in infamy not simply because of violent aggression or the lack of hospitality, but because men pursued sex with other men."

DeYoung also takes issue with our guest blogger's argument that the Greek term the New Testament writer Paul uses when describing homosexuality, para physin, has been misconstrued by modern translators to mean "unnatural." Helminiak says that the original term does not contain ethical judgment and should be translated instead as "atypical" or "unusual."

Absurd, says DeYoung. "We know Paul considered same-sex intercourse an ethical violation, and not simply something uncommon. ... (N)otice what Paul goes on to say: 'Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error' (NRSV)."

DeYoung writes, "When you read the whole verse, Helminiak’s 'nonethical' argument becomes implausible. Paul thought homosexuality not just unusual, but wrong, a sinful error deserving of a 'due penalty.' '"

On Facebook, Helminiak’s piece, "My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality," provoked a mix of positive and negative response. Some of the latter was very, very negative.

"The following article appeared on the front page of CNN. ... I was so grieved and troubled, I had to respond to the writer," Vince Smith wrote on his Facebook page Thursday. "This is what is most tragic and terrifying about beliefs on homosexuality in this nation.

"When you take Scripture and twist it to 'reinterpet' what it means, and then teach others, you are literally playing with fire ... eternal fire," Smith continued. "I pray that The Lord has mercy on Mr. Helminiak."

Readers' comments on the piece included much criticism, too (although there was plenty of support for Helminiak’s argument).

"Daniel's argument misses the glaringly obvious condemnation of gay sex in the Bible," writes a commenter named Mike Blackadder. "Catholics believe it is a mortal sin when it is premarital, masturbatory, and when we deny the possibility of conceiving children (i.e., through the use of contraceptives).

"Unfortunately, the faith suggests that gay sex falls under the same category as these others and if we interpret differently for gays, then we must accept a new interpretation of these other acts for the same reason," Blackadder writes. "The corollary is that if your faith accepts hetero impurities (such as contraceptives or [masturbation]) but condemns gays, then you may be rightfully accused of hypocrisy."

Many commenters avoided quibbling with Helminiak’s logic, instead taking aim at the piece's very existence.

"Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want.

"You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are."

On Twitter, most RTs, or retweets, endorsed the piece, but not all. "Another pastor,"  tweeted @BarbRoyal "trying to pretend the ugly parts out of the Xtian (Christian) bible. ..."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments • Gay marriage

soundoff (3,580 Responses)
  1. Atheists-Is-Smart

    Are there actually any gay people here? Or is it just bored atheists and bible junkies?

    May 18, 2012 at 12:08 am |
    • edwardo

      I'm gay! Are you cruising?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:09 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Nah, I like penguins, just checking to see if there were actually any here...

      May 18, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • edwardo

      So you're a bird fker?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Sure, and we are going to get married as soon as the laws are changed...

      May 18, 2012 at 12:15 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      I like donkeys heehaw I even got him a ring

      May 18, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • edwardo

      Great !! Can the penguin sign the marriage license? Is the penguin a law abiding, tax paying citizen? Is the penguin over the age of 18? If so, the 2 of you should have your rights!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      My donkey is 20 works on the farm and born in the USA,never got a jaywalking ticket

      May 18, 2012 at 12:24 am |
    • edwardo

      If you can get your donkey to sign the marriage certificate, you 2 asses can get married.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • Observer

      edwardo,

      Well done. The quote of the day.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • edwardo

      Observer – thanks.. it's not difficult to win a war of wit with the unarmed.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:53 am |
    • jmac121

      observer

      who is judging who now? you don't know me, what i do, but you sure have made lots of 'judgments' about me.

      what ellen does is between her and God; however, when my thoughts/beliefs/freedoms get attacked i – like you, start to get a little defensive and concerned ... [if] when my church is being sued and boycotted for not marrying two gay people [after the promise that this would never happen], then whose rights are starting to get trampled on?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:55 am |
  2. Med_Scholar01

    This is a stupid controversy. Whatever happened to separation of church and state?
    Believe whatever you want. Just dont bring your personal beliefs to influence how you govern the people of your country that is made up of thousands of different beliefs.

    May 18, 2012 at 12:01 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Separation of church and state means that the state can't force the church to do things. We came from an oppressive country where the state ran the church. It doesn't mean the church is separate from the state. A little history lesson for ya...

      May 18, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • jmac121

      wish it were that easy .... pretty naive though

      May 18, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • Jacob

      Pravda sounds even dumber under his current moniker.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:05 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      What?? Let me guess, you are some history professor or something?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:09 am |
    • Observer

      Atheists-Is-Smart,

      A little history lesson for you: God, Jesus, Christ, and Christian are 4 words that do NOT appear in our Declaration of Independence or more importantly, our Consti-tution.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Lol, the majority of signers of the Declaration were PASTORS! Read their writings, you will see the thoughts behind their actions. It's called taking something in context...

      May 18, 2012 at 12:12 am |
    • n8263

      It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      It is immoral to impose your beliefs on me too...

      May 18, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Observer

      Atheists-Is-Smart

      These "pastors" had the chance to set up a brand new government. They chose one with a Consti-tution that NEVER mentioned "God", "Christ", "Christian", and "Jesus". Some of the key persons weren't even Christians.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:19 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      @observer does marriage appear in any of them ?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • Observer

      BamaDaniel,

      Nope. There are references however, to "life. liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and "all men are created equal".

      May 18, 2012 at 12:21 am |
  3. Nichollas

    http://ecc118.wordpress.com/

    May 18, 2012 at 12:00 am |
  4. ur

    ok

    May 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • ur

      why cant i post that

      May 18, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • n8263

      What?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:16 am |
  5. James R. Ruston

    Most of the Christians I know are decent people who get a great deal of personal satisfaction from their community and find that the good done by fellow Christians and the church far outweigh the negativity and bigotry of some in their community. Hardly any think that a rigid doctrine is very important. Unfortunately, the bigots and the zealots get the publicity.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • edwardo

      I wouldn't say squat to them, if they'd quit screwwing me out of my rights!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:16 am |
  6. random

    Religion requires cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance (except when required as a survival mechanism in cases of severe trauma) is a sign of mental illness.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
  7. austin

    No religion, know peace. Know religion, no peace.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • T42

      That's what the communist used to say – however, their evil empire collapsed – not quite a peaceful empire w/o religion was it? Read the New Testament for yourself and afterwards ask yourself if these people who followed Christ sought peace. Who didn't seek peace? It was people who had pagan religion beliefs and therefore practiced a vast variety of religious practices including the destruction of children in their sacrifices. So you have true religion and false religion. That is your problem – you haven't taken time to sort it out and lump everyone under religion but don't make any distinctions.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • edwardo

      Simple.. and fantastic!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • edwardo

      HItler was a Christian... 'nuf said !!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:17 am |
    • jmac121

      hm, jesus said not all who claimed to be his followers were ... come on, edward – hitler, really ... i gave you more credit than to try that

      May 18, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • edwardo

      @Jmac – Why do you think HItler hated the Jews? They killed Jesus. The Vatican used to throw bday parties for Hitler. Are you kidding me? You're going to deny that Hitler was a Christian? Remember the crosses on the German soldier hats? Do I have to draw one for you?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:55 am |
    • edwardo

      @Jmac
      a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.
      b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)
      c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.
      d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

      e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:57 am |
    • jmac121

      psst ... you know that there are 'some' police officers who dress like police officers, have taken the training, are out on the streets patroling, but in essence are not there to actaully serve and protect and abuse their position ... come on, please use some resson ... do you actuallly belive that Christ would condone Hilter's actions???

      May 18, 2012 at 12:59 am |
    • Gregg

      "It was people who had pagan religion beliefs and therefore practiced a vast variety of religious practices including the destruction of children in their sacrifices"

      Keep in mind, a lot of these stories were created by people wanting to instill hatred and rage against another group or culture (often. Human sacrifice has been practiced, but in most, if not all cases, it was practiced on prisoners of war and criminals. Of course is it any different when one would burn a suspected witch, heathen, or heretic, on a stake? I don't see any difference.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:56 am |
  8. Atheists-Is-Smart

    Sorry we can't have gay marriage. If we do, it will open the doors for all other perversions to want civil rights. As Bill Murray said in Ghostbusters, "Human Sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!!"

    May 17, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Observer

      Yep, just like allowing men to marry women led to incest and polygamy.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • manbearpig

      Like the polygamy that pervades the bible? Interesting POV...idiot.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      More pu..st in the bed always good. Who had gays

      May 17, 2012 at 11:55 pm |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      People will want to marry their dog next... 20 more years, mark my words...

      May 17, 2012 at 11:55 pm |
    • jmac121

      where in the Bible was polygamy encouraged by God ... it was seen as wrong even if people engaged in it – kind of like the things we engage in today

      May 17, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      They already do

      May 17, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
    • Gregg

      Kinda like how the first amendment lead to Jews, pagans, atheists, and Muslims in this country.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • Observer

      Atheists-Is-Smart,

      The topic is equal rights for GAYS.

      Come back in 20 years and see about the bestiality you are fantasizing about.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • jmac121

      Observer

      lol you do lots of talking for an observer

      i think that most followers of Christ are saddned by some choice made, but really don't want to meddle in the affairs of others ... the problem is that the 'line' keeps getting moved and the fear is at what point do our relgious freedoms get infringed on ...

      for instance, we as belivers were told some time ago not to worry about our places of worship/beliefs, but even within the past week i read a story about a church being sued for not allowing a gay couple to marry in it ... what is happening to our rights? who is at war with who?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:26 am |
    • Observer

      jmac121,

      "really don't want to meddle in the affairs of others"

      So tell me how much of an impact it had on your life when Ellen DeGeneris got married? You sure wish you could have meddled in that. Get serious.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:44 am |
    • jmac121

      observer

      who is judging who now? you don't know me, what i do, but you sure have made lots of 'judgments' about me.

      what ellen does is between her and God; however, when my thoughts/beliefs/freedoms get attacked i – like you, start to get a little defensive and concerned ... [if] when my church is being sued and boycotted for not marrying two gay people [after the promise that this would never happen], then whose rights are starting to get trampled on?

      May 18, 2012 at 1:07 am |
    • YeahRight

      "when my church is being sued and boycotted for not marrying two gay people [after the promise that this would never happen], then whose rights are starting to get trampled on?"

      The U S Supreme Court has already stated that marriage is a civil right.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:44 am |
  9. edwardo

    A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.
    We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • Colin

      Great post!!!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:46 pm |
    • jmac121

      i am sorry, but your reasoing makes no sense ... we are made in God's image so of course, like Him, we have emotions ... just because i know something is going to happen doesn't mean i can't have emotions about it ... ever have a family member you know is going to die, then they die and you conitnue to grieve?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Wow, have you ever got angry with your kid? Sad? Upset? Ever cried over them when they got hurt? God is a FATHER, think about it...

      May 17, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      My great grandmother has been dead 30yes still makes me sad nothing new about it. Seen pearl harbor survivors tear up over dead friends

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • edwardo

      @jmac – you make no sense! You think if I knew a family member was going to die, and I could stop it (which your god can do), I wouldn't? Would your god attend the funeral, console the family? When all he had to do was lift his little finger, and make everything ok again?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Roger Ramjet

      God is omniscient. He knows everything that will ever happen, and has since the moment he started everything. That means he can make predictions like Revelation.

      HOWEVER . . .

      That means your life was determined right from the start. There is no free will if God know everything in advance. You must do what was planned, which means you cannot change anything, that prayer cannot possibly have any impact, and that you are playing the role you were designed for eons ago, and thus cannot possibly be responsible for anything you do.

      It gets worse. God also cannot change anything. He is trapped in the same determination that you are. Any change that occurs throws the whole plan off, and predictions become false. And there is the paradox: If God is omniscient, then he is not omnipotent once the system is set in motion (in fact, he is utterly powerless – he is along for the ride). If he is omnipotent, then he cannot be omniscient, and there would be no prophecies.

      Even worse – as God cannot change anything once it is started, and he knew the outcome before he started, then there is absolutely no reason to do it at all. It would just trigger a long boring trap for God, as he sits and powerlessly watches a show where he already knows all the details. Absolutely pointless.

      God is impossible.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • edwardo

      @BamaDaniel Are you thick? If you were god, wouldn't you bring your dead grandmother back? Wouldn't you have prevented Pearl Harbor? And as far as the loving father thing goes, would you let your kid play on the highway, then grieve when they got ran over? Would you send them to eternal punishment for any thing??? LIke not believing you???

      May 17, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Free will baby... Maybe you should actually read the bible, it kinda explains all of this stuff...

      May 17, 2012 at 11:58 pm |
    • stoneman

      Time to start looking for your mind!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:59 pm |
    • jmac121

      edwardo

      you like and want your free will, right? so, when does God intercede and when doesn't He ... not an easy question to answer.

      also, 'the wages of sin is death .... [good new though], but the gift of God is eternal life'

      May 17, 2012 at 11:59 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      If I was God I would have the finest freaks in the universe with me .to hell with man and that is what he did. We in deep doo doo

      May 18, 2012 at 12:03 am |
    • edwardo

      @jmac – Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and have the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God. What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, and yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans. The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot become imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • HappyMadison

      What edwardo is saying is technically correct - which is the best kind of correct.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • edwardo

      @athiests–is-smart Free will? So god doesn't have a plan? If he has a plan, and knows what's going to happen, we do not have the free will to change it. And if we do have free will, then god doesn't have a plan. Don't need to read the bible, when I have common sense.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:06 am |
    • jmac121

      God is perfect ... adam and eve were not tempted by God, but by evil and out of free will chose to rebel against their Father/Creator .... the third book of romans speaks to this .... sin came through one man, and life was given by one who never sinnned – Christ.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @jmac

      The thing I find completely amazing is that christians have absolutely no problem with the entire concept you laid out.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • jmac121

      the problem here isn't a common sense or morality one ... it is essentially a 'sin' – wrongdoing/rebellous problem ... 'for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' – thank-God for Christ

      May 18, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      @Ed we were perfect Adam was perfect in his creation . The fallen ,gods first created cherubim brought imperfection to mankind.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:15 am |
    • jmac121

      HawaiiGuest

      I'm wise enough to know that I'm not God ... I'm the creation not the Creator ... He, at the end of the day doesn't have to explain his ways to me .... just like my toddler doesn't understand why I have certain [protective] rules in my house

      May 18, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • edwardo

      @Jmac – Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away. Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing God’s ass. If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:24 am |
    • jmac121

      Christ was the master of figures of speach – you know, things like metaphors, similis, hyperbole – to make/reinforce a point ...

      and please don't take scripture out of context to serve your own purpose, this is how we get in trouble because Christ also said that anything we ask within God's will would be answered .... and, just becasue we don't see an answer to prayer right away doesn't mean it won't be answered

      God also will not over-rule one's free will – I will pray for you and have already that God will continue to draw you to Him, but it is still your free choice

      May 18, 2012 at 12:33 am |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @jmac

      That is just your particular take on your religion. This says nothing to the truthfulness of your claims, and until you can demonstrate your claims to be true (first that a god exists, then that the god you believe in exists for starters) there is really no reason to take anything you say about the afterlife or your particular "gods" ways.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:04 am |
    • jmac121

      why do i need to prove anything? I can look around me and know that there is a God and also evil ... I can see what walking with Christ has done in my life ... I can read the Bible – the whole Bible – and know intuitively that it makes sense thousands of years later

      this issue is between you and God ... not up to me to prove anything. I will pray for you though.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @jmac

      You're making the assertion that god exists, therefore the burden of proof is on you to actually provide evidence of what you're asserting. You look around and see "god" but guess what, that's what you see through a lens of what you want to see. Your assertions give nothing to the validity of it, and does no good to anyone actually looking for the truth. Your condescending "I'll pray for you" is useless to those who don't believe in it, so save your self serving prayers.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:07 am |
  10. BADGUY

    The bible says we shouldn't eat shrimp either. The old bible (old testament) was written by "god knows who" 600 years before Christ. The new bible (new testament) was written by "god knows who", 200 years AFTER Christ. I LIKE shrimp!

    May 17, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • Voxovreeson

      Are you referring to the shellfish or being euphemistic? I don't recall the Bible says anything against the substantially underendowed.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • Colin

      your concept is correct but your dates are wrong. NEw Testamentt – 20 to 70 years after he died,

      May 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • jmac121

      try reading the new testament ... doesn't say we can't eat shrimp – i like shrimp too

      May 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • Observer

      jmac121,

      Please explain how this works. God specifically stated that eating shellfish is an abomination to him. So Jesus comes and dies and so God had changed his mind that eating shellfish is an abomination?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Atheists-Is-Smart

      Wow.... Clueless.... You ever think that Levitical law was written to prevent disease? How was sanitation standards back then? Penicillin? Hmm... Nope... Maybe there was a reason behind all of it...

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • jmac121

      Observer,

      lol ... its too late and i'm too tired ... short/simple answer ... differing commands in the Bible [dietary laws your speaking of ... which we know today to actually be not good for our health] ... also, Christ came .... new convenant

      May 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
  11. BADGUY

    The bible says we shouldn't eat shrimp either. Who cares!

    May 17, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
    • T42

      You are referring to a covenant given to ancient Israel only. In the new covenant in the book of Acts chapter eleven these kind of food laws were no longer in effect for Jews. You should think twice about making jokes about things you know you are ignorant of – start studying for yourself so you won't continue to make such unfounded remarks.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
  12. REPENT

    In Daniel, the Lord says that there will be four empires that will rule the world. Babylon(Gold), Media-Persia(Silver), Greece(Bronze) and Rome(Iron). At the time this was prophesied Babylon was in power. He also says that in the last days there would be 10 toes of iron mixed with clay. 1 one of these toes would be more stout than the others. After Rome fell, the Roman Catholic Church(Antichrist System) was the next power to rule the world. It states that 3 of these toes would be destroyed. Which they were by the RCC. If we look into our time, these toes still exist as modern nations. America and Britain(Anglo Saxons), French(Franks), Spain(Visigoths), Germany(Alamanni) and etc. Daniel predicts that at the time of these kindoms, God would set up his kingdom. We live in that time. The Roman empire never fell,, it's power was transferred to the Roman Catholic Church and other nations such as the powerful western nations. These things are meant to happen, and they will continue to happen until Christ Returns. Revelation speaks of a lamb that arises from the earth with two horns, but it speaks as a dragon. The Roman Catholic Church ruled with an iron fist for a long time in the form of a religious system. It killed many Christians and non Christians during it's tenure. The other horn is Islam. Which is another form of religion that's on the rise. Claiming that one day it will rule the world with it Sura Law. A decline morality in America is a sign of victory and weakness in the eyes of Islam. Don't be deceived people. These moral issues and appeasement to Islamic countries are are like putty in their hands. Prophecy itself is a sign that God is real!

    May 17, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Please stop

      May 17, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
    • Traci

      SO TRUE

      May 17, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • wow

      Traci,

      You sound like a lesbian

      May 17, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
    • jeanine

      I found your comment interesting, what religion are you.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • REPENT

      I'm a follower of the way. How did we gt to where we are today? The Roman Catholic church made a stain on church history. Not only did it have influence tduring the dark and middle ages, but it has influence now also. When the media references the church, the RCC is the identifier. The real church is invisible and alony God knows who are his true followers. He is the last judge and has the last say. This si all written in the bible. We are always looking for th antichrist but has been here for centuries in the form of many popes. The system is clearly not Christian. Wake up people. I know this is off topic but it;s true. Read Revelation 13:11-18. and Daniel 7:23-25. Daniel prophesies that the antichrist will do three things. Persecute the saints.(The RCC killed more than 1 million christians during it's tenure(Inquisitions). Change times and Laws.(the RCC Changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It also changed the 2nd commandment. Last is that it will seak pompous words against God.(The RCC claims to forgive sins, Pope claimed to be God, also claims to bring Jesus from heaven into thje wafer and wine.(Transubstantiation). Jesus was killed because the jews said he was claiming to forgive sins. This was considered blaspheme.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
  13. Colin

    A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.

    The theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives, by an immortal, magic, invisible being in the sky for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” is widely believed by:

    (a) Atheists;

    (b) Agnostics;

    (c) Scientists; or

    (d) Christians

    You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking serpent if you are a:

    (a) historian;

    (b) geologist;

    (c) NASA astronomer; or

    (d) Christian

    The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:

    (a) Architecture;

    (b) Philosophy;

    (c) Archeology; or

    (d) Religion

    What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:

    (a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they are morally obliged to believe on pain of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads;

    (b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is a composite god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;

    (c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or

    (d) All of the above.

    If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:

    (a) a deep psychiatric issue;

    (b) an irrational fear or phobia;

    (c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or

    (d) my religious belief.

    Millions and millions of Christians believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:

    (a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;

    (b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;

    (c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or

    (d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely f.cking absurd nonsense.

    Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am

    (a) A sleazy Wall Street banker

    (b) A mafia boss

    (c) A drug pusher; or

    (d) A Catholic priest, Baptist Minister or other religious figure..

    May 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      To harsh

      May 17, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • random

      not harsh enough

      May 17, 2012 at 11:46 pm |
    • Traci

      You are getting religion mixed up with the true message. Only message. JESUS CHRIST died for your sins. I pray that you believe this before it is too late.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:48 pm |
    • austin

      I like that you're not generalizing

      May 17, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Marcus

      Or (e) None of the Above

      May 18, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • M B

      Colin:
      If your view of a perfect God is distorted by imperfect people, I apologize. I like how you ask questions, its something I feel people dont do enough of. Although your questions are valid and very humorous, understand that to believers in Christ, your questions (or phrasings) would probably be seen as silly (despite how rational you may think they are). But, nobody has all the answers (not even Christians), but its unintelligent to believe that Christians havent asked these questions before. In fact, I would argue, they do all the time.
      Its obvious you are very passionate about this issue, but, its sad that you would want to condemn and belittle people the same way they might condemn or belittle you for your beliefs. Thats what the God of the Bible says and believes anyway.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:28 am |
  14. Tom Schmelzer

    Why do I have to know what people do in private? God sees everything and knows every persons thoughts and intensions. He keeps it all seperate. Wow, amazing. Hey, some boys lust after other boys. I lust after beautiful women, we are both sinners and need Jesus to save us from our un holiness to be able to get into heaven to be with God who is all love and equally just. Justice means punishment for penalty. Thank You Lord Jesus My eternal KING for taking the cross for me. Yes I deserve crucifixion for my rebellion. Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe, sin had left a crimson stain, HE washed me white as snow!

    May 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
    • edwardo

      OMG... another kool-aid drinker. There's a comet passing by... feel free to hitch a ride!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Colin

      A classic example of the ret.arding effects of religion on the human psyche. The only interesting question to me is one of cause and effect. Are so many people so completely mentally enfeebled because of religion or are so many people religious because they are so mentally enfeebled?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      I lust after women .rather die getting my strokes on than any other way. When God ask me why I sinned I'll blame it on him. Tell him they to good to resist

      May 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • Marcus

      Da Bears!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:12 am |
  15. Beep Beep

    Seriously, as the medical science progresses, gayness will disappear (the causes are well understood now). Why bother with that? It's like passing polio-victim legislation in the 50's even as the polio vaccine eliminated it.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • edwardo

      Your post makes no sense!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
    • Voxovreeson

      Switch to Alcoa. Reynolds Wrap is known to give poor reception.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
  16. wow

    Conservative Christians are fundamentally unintelligent 😦

    May 17, 2012 at 11:29 pm |
    • Beep Beep

      Basically, the gays want to get married for one main reason: to be acknowledged and accepted in the society as " we are not weird, we are just like you". And other people don't want to allow that acknowledgment, because the gays are weird. It's, of course, not explicit, but that's what it is.Religion of course supports that position.The traditional marriage benefits are secondary.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • Observer

      Beep Beep,

      Religion also supports slavery and discrimination against women and the handicapped.

      What was your point, if any?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
    • edwardo

      @Beep Beep -WRONG! I could care less whether you accept me or not. I just want my civil rights. I have never met one human being who does not have something "weird" about them. You are truly a dim bulb!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Observer

      edwardo,

      Don't let the dim bulbs bug you. Bigots are becoming extinct due to education. The future is bright and obvious.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:38 pm |
    • Voxovreeson

      Beep Beep- as a straight man, I can only surmise what gays are looking for in marriage. But from a practical standpoint, I think they are seeking the benefit of not having to fill out a hundred forms for each and every right that is automatically conferred by the state-recognized contract known as marriage.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • Traci

      Wow people with faith based vales are idiots. Glad to be an idiot, and not a pervert.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Don't be gay they'll have marriage recognition of normal yes I said normal man women couples. you can't .never will it's against nature

      May 17, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
    • wow

      Plastic is against nature but we invented it anyway

      May 17, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
    • wow

      Plastic is unnatural but we invented it anyway

      May 17, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • T42

      You don't really know what you are taking about – but sounds good – seems like you are happy with your observation so why the frowny face? BTW what is a non-fundamental line of thinking? Does this describe you – non-fundamental & intelligent?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:22 am |
  17. n8263

    It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others.

    You do not believe in religion because you honestly think it is true, you believe in it because you fear mortality, seek comfort or are trying to find meaning in your life. It does not take a genius to figure out all religion is man made, so for humanity's sake, please stop lying to yourself.

    Deluding yourself in religion does not change reality. Lying to yourself is probably the worst possible way to try to find meaning.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
  18. Beep Beep

    We need to do away with marriage benefits. Gays don't need it, most whites don't need it (trailer trash excluded, but who wants trailer trash kids – this needs to be discouraged), the blacks don't need it (they don't get married), and the Hispanics need to go home.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Marriage ain't about kids. It was about a father getting 3goats 6bear skins and a partridge in a pear tree

      May 17, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • hard on

      Open bathroom cabinet, open bottle of drano, drink contents, die very painful and slow death. Meet your god! Win, win! You meet god, we are spared you bigotry and religious crap! Yeah!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
  19. Andrew

    what i don't understand is why one part of the bible, this part for example is the word of god, but the other parts that tell Christians to do things like buy slaves and kill untruly children and stuff is NOT the law of god. And about 2000 other things.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • Observer

      Simple answer: HYPOCRISY.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      No selective thinking

      May 17, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • jmac121

      confused ... which part of the Bible tells 'christians' to buy slaves?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Observer

      – Exodus 21:7-8 “If a man sells his daughter as a slave, the rules for setting her free are different from the rules for setting the male slaves free. If the master wanted to marry her but then decided he was not pleased with her, he must let one of her close relatives buy her back.”

      May 17, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • jmac121

      Observer

      Seems like we've been down this road before ... there were no 'little Christs' when Exodus was written

      May 17, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • flipd

      Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)

      May 17, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • flipd

      If one is to use the old testament as proof that gayness is bad, then one can use the old testament to show that slaveness is good.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • Observer

      jmac121,

      Yes, we've been through this before. You PRETEND that the Bible in EVERY Christian church contains 50% nonsense that has nothing to do with Christians. You know, like the Ten Commandments.

      So tell me, is that the SAME GOD in both testaments?
      Did God issue those commands that supposedly stayed in effect for a couple thousand years?

      Get serious.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:01 am |
    • manbearpig

      aaaaaannnnnnndddddd...crickets from the christians.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:06 am |
    • YoYo

      Clearly marriage in the bible is very sacred... 😉

      May 18, 2012 at 12:08 am |
    • Marcus

      Grandma, go to bed!

      May 18, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • jmac121

      Observer

      sorry, didn't see your post ... I do believe it was the same God in both testaments, but He was also speaking to a group of people who lived at a particular time ... we can draw out life lessons – like bless others [Abrahamic code], but need to use some discernment about what was happening at that time

      May 18, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • Observer

      jmac121,

      The MOST RECENT comments in the Bible were for people living 2,000 years ago.

      What was your point, if any?

      May 18, 2012 at 12:27 am |
    • jmac121

      observer

      come on ... i've given you much more credit than your answer ... for real .... think i've shown you some respect, how bout some in return?

      there are, of course, certain principles and truths we can draw from scipture written so long ago that is still interestingly relevant today ... like Jesus saying 'don't be surprised if the world rejects you [people who follow him] because they rejected him first'

      May 18, 2012 at 12:42 am |
    • jeanine

      ANDREW
      I believe in 2 Timothy 3:16 say's "All scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching for reproving
      for setting things straight for disciplining in righteousness." We don't live by the laws that were set out in the earlier parts of the bible, we live by the principals we learn from the bible. God gave us all free will for us to choose to do the right thing.
      And verse 17 say's "that the man of god may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." GOD WANTS US TO KNOW OUR BIBLE AND LIVE BY HIS WORD, HE WANTS US TO BENEFIT FROM IT, BECAUSE HE LOVES US.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:47 am |
  20. Beep Beep

    The causes of this brain pathology are now well understood by researchers, and the cure is just around the corner.

    May 17, 2012 at 11:23 pm |
    • hard on

      Cure for your delusional, backwards way of thinking?

      May 17, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      They need some woman juice poured down their throat

      May 17, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      You can't fix stupid...but you can stun it with a 2X4.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • Beep Beep

      A simple injection will take care of it in utero.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • Observer

      Yes. Education is gradually wiping out bigotry.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • Beep Beep

      Designer babies are coming!

      May 17, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
    • hard on

      The same way you guzzle bucket loads of protein rich man skeet? Must do wonders for your skin, seeing as you get facials on the regular.

      May 17, 2012 at 11:29 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.