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Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Readers responded to a professor's views on the issue.
May 17th, 2012
02:10 PM ET

Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - and, by extension, same-sex marriage - right?

A guest "My Take" post we ran this week from a college psychology professor who has a background in religion (he was ordained a Roman Catholic priest, for instance) challenged that conventional wisdom.

The professor, Daniel A. Helminiak, argues that foes of same-sex marriage have assigned modern, ethics-laden meanings to biblical passages on homosexuality to make it seem like the Bible unequivocally condemns it. In fact, Helminiak proposes, the original meanings of such passages about gays are at the very least ambiguous.

The piece has generated an avalanche of response: 10,000 Facebook shares, 6,000 comments, 200 tweets and a couple of blog posts.  Giving the other side its say, here's a rebuttal roundup of critical reactions from across the Internet:

Kevin DeYoung, a conservative Christian blogger, calls Helminiak's piece "amazing for including so many bad arguments in so little space." DeYoung, who leads a Reformed Church in Michigan, challenges Helminiak's argument that the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't condemn homosexuality per se.

"Jude 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities 'indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,' " DeYoung writes.

"Even the NRSV, translation of choice for the mainline (and the version Helminiak seems to be using), says 'pursued unnatural lust,' ” he continues, referring to the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

"Clearly, the sins of Sodom lived in infamy not simply because of violent aggression or the lack of hospitality, but because men pursued sex with other men."

DeYoung also takes issue with our guest blogger's argument that the Greek term the New Testament writer Paul uses when describing homosexuality, para physin, has been misconstrued by modern translators to mean "unnatural." Helminiak says that the original term does not contain ethical judgment and should be translated instead as "atypical" or "unusual."

Absurd, says DeYoung. "We know Paul considered same-sex intercourse an ethical violation, and not simply something uncommon. ... (N)otice what Paul goes on to say: 'Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error' (NRSV)."

DeYoung writes, "When you read the whole verse, Helminiak’s 'nonethical' argument becomes implausible. Paul thought homosexuality not just unusual, but wrong, a sinful error deserving of a 'due penalty.' '"

On Facebook, Helminiak’s piece, "My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality," provoked a mix of positive and negative response. Some of the latter was very, very negative.

"The following article appeared on the front page of CNN. ... I was so grieved and troubled, I had to respond to the writer," Vince Smith wrote on his Facebook page Thursday. "This is what is most tragic and terrifying about beliefs on homosexuality in this nation.

"When you take Scripture and twist it to 'reinterpet' what it means, and then teach others, you are literally playing with fire ... eternal fire," Smith continued. "I pray that The Lord has mercy on Mr. Helminiak."

Readers' comments on the piece included much criticism, too (although there was plenty of support for Helminiak’s argument).

"Daniel's argument misses the glaringly obvious condemnation of gay sex in the Bible," writes a commenter named Mike Blackadder. "Catholics believe it is a mortal sin when it is premarital, masturbatory, and when we deny the possibility of conceiving children (i.e., through the use of contraceptives).

"Unfortunately, the faith suggests that gay sex falls under the same category as these others and if we interpret differently for gays, then we must accept a new interpretation of these other acts for the same reason," Blackadder writes. "The corollary is that if your faith accepts hetero impurities (such as contraceptives or [masturbation]) but condemns gays, then you may be rightfully accused of hypocrisy."

Many commenters avoided quibbling with Helminiak’s logic, instead taking aim at the piece's very existence.

"Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want.

"You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are."

On Twitter, most RTs, or retweets, endorsed the piece, but not all. "Another pastor,"  tweeted @BarbRoyal "trying to pretend the ugly parts out of the Xtian (Christian) bible. ..."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments • Gay marriage

soundoff (3,580 Responses)
  1. Josh

    There is only ONE reason why Jesus himself was not married.

    There is only ONE reason why Joseph and Mary would have reneged on their responsibility to find their son a wife.

    That's reason is, Joseph and Mary knew it would be useless to find their son a wife because he was GAY.

    May 18, 2012 at 7:37 am |
    • Badreddine

      I have to show my appreciation for your goetresiny supporting individuals who require guidance on this one idea. Your very own dedication to getting the message throughout appears to be really important and have continuously helped regular people just like me to achieve their dreams. Your invaluable guide indicates a whole lot a person like me and extremely more to my office colleagues. Best wishes; from everyone of us.

      November 8, 2012 at 5:39 am |
  2. old gaffer

    The problem isn't that gays want to marry, the problem is that a minority religious sect wants to take their holy text and use it as a basis for all laws in America. That's the little problem.

    The BIG problem is that this same religious sect doesn't see what's going to happen as soon as the Islam becomes the majority religion in American and they want to enforce sharia law on everyone; in fact, they deny that it's even a possibility.

    May 18, 2012 at 7:37 am |
  3. Mike

    The only people who deny the existence of God are the ones who think they can avoid being held accountable when they stand for judgment.

    May 18, 2012 at 7:36 am |
    • gary

      but, there is no god ,, just myth

      May 18, 2012 at 7:37 am |
    • Robert

      So Mike, do you lay awake at night in fear of Tinkerbell's wrath?
      No?
      Now you understand how we feel.
      You have the right to believe in what ever delusion makes you feel better but please don't think you can firghten the rest of us with your fairy tale.
      It's just laughable.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:42 am |
  4. Dave

    Fanatics, picking and choosing bible passages that seem to point to things they want to believe, while completely ignoring whole passages that do not. When was the last time one of these anti gay religous nuts stoned their unruly children, or their wife for not listening to them? lol. that's in the bible too.

    May 18, 2012 at 7:29 am |
    • Um, yeah

      If you're going to talk about religious nuts, then you should learn some theology. There is a reason they don't follow the passages you speak about but do follow the others.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • MASSIVE BALLS

      Um, yeah. It's called laziness. They don't want to follow ALL of the rules, so they pick and choose : )

      May 18, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • Robert

      Um yeah, and the rational for that would be?
      (hypocrisy?)

      May 18, 2012 at 7:36 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Robert, the rationale (not rational) for that is tradition. You follow what was handed down, not the new interpretations of young people of today. The reason some of the passages in the Old Testament aren't followed are because they were overridden by the New Testament. However, h.o.m.o.s.e.x.u.a.l.i.t.y is condemned in the New Testament.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:03 am |
    • Robert

      Please forgive my typing skills. (is that a sin as well?)
      Tradition is a poor reason to cling to bigotted ignorance.
      Tradition would have us living in huts. I'm sorry you feel so threatened by change. Get used to it though, everything changes.
      And I'm nearly 50. Perhaps the young people of today are ahead of the curve when it comes to accepting people for who they are when they're harming no one. You should concentrate you energy on living your life better rather than tryiing in vain to live womeone else's life for them.
      (those who can argue do, those who can't point out spelling errors)

      May 18, 2012 at 8:13 am |
    • Robert

      Um Yeah, do you rail as hard against everything that is condemmed in the bible or just the things that make you feel icky?
      Do you think we should murder children that are disrespectful as well?

      May 18, 2012 at 8:15 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Robert, why do you insist on interpreting the Bible contrary to how most Christians interpret it based on theology? Is it because you want to justify a whatever feels good morality? Is it because you want to promote the anarchy that is atheism? No thanks. Nobody wants anarchic and evil atheism.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:23 am |
    • Robert

      I'm not promoting anything, do as you like, believe as you like.
      All I'm advocating is that everyone should have the right to live their life as they see fit without being forced to adhere to your religious beliefs.
      As I said before. Atheists are no threat to you, religion is. Look around the world and you'll see that only in secular societies do religions have any degree of freedom. In religious societies, other beliefs are always oppressed. Look at Northern Ireland and you'll see just how well even Chrsitans get along with other Christians.
      Hate on atheists all you like, you're still deluded and have every right to be so.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:31 am |
  5. The TRUTH

    MORE INfo About The Travolta LDS/SCIENTOLOGY/Vatican Scandal!

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/05/17/john-travolta-accused-trying-to-grope-late-grease-co-star-jeff-conaway/?intcmp=features

    May 18, 2012 at 7:23 am |
  6. Nighthawk

    Thats about as ridiculous as 2 gay guys saying they want to have kids. Think about it..

    May 18, 2012 at 7:22 am |
    • Eric

      Typically two gay men might want to raise children. They know that they can't physically bear children. My stepbrother's son is being raised by two mothers. I see nothing wrong with that and they'll still love him no matter what his orientation is.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:28 am |
    • Prayer Works

      They want children to do it with. Gays are a known disease and need to be exported to a place where they cannot harm others. They are deviants, and will face the Lord's judgement.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:32 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Hell

      May 18, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • MASSIVE BALLS

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l94vQn52H9A&w=640&h=360]

      May 18, 2012 at 7:34 am |
  7. Knee before me!

    You scurry our every day and do horrific things to each other, all in my name.
    Fabulous!

    May 18, 2012 at 7:18 am |
  8. Name*Chedar

    Religion is the root of all evil. They are also imposing their GOD as "Intelligent Design" in the US classroom. Religion contribute nothing but stupidity in the classroom of the US school. No wonder why American high school test scores are among the lowest in the developed countries.

    May 18, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • jose

      .where did you hear this? pure nonsence you are talking about. Please go to any school and see that inteligent design is not being thaught and you are confusing what a religion is with what some people decide to interpret and do with it. read, ignorance is the root of all evil, you are promoting it by your words which have no sense at all. Sorry for you

      May 18, 2012 at 7:24 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Check your grammar before talking about the alleged stupidity of others.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • Datch

      Intelligent Design IS being taught in many states. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4630737

      May 18, 2012 at 7:40 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Oh my word... Intelligent Design is going to kill us all! Quick, do something! What are we ever going to do if people start believing in a creator God!

      May 18, 2012 at 8:05 am |
  9. Knee before me!

    I nearly drown your entire world and still you look to me for moral guidance.
    I order the slaughter of entire races and you call me "good".
    The irony is, well, biblical!

    May 18, 2012 at 7:17 am |
  10. Dia

    Read the bible! Jesus did not sit with those he felt pure and righteous but the unclean and social outcasts. God is happy the most when a lost lamb comes home. Jesus one thing he asked us to follow was to love one another and all of this hate makes no sense. Essentially you have sin with your bigotry and hatred. I know you are not perfect, no one is and that why we have no right casting any stones

    May 18, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • Get it right

      While you're correct that Jesus was all about love, why on earth do you seem to believe he thought it was ok for people to sin? He loved the sinner but hated the sin, which is why he told the adulteress to 'go, and sin no more'.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:36 am |
  11. Knee before me!

    HAHAHA
    I laugh at you puny humans. Groveling, sucking up, begging my indulgence...

    May 18, 2012 at 7:14 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Perhaps you mean "kneel"? Careful, your IQ is showing.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:37 am |
    • Kneel before me!

      You got me Um, a typo is of course an accurate indicator of intelligence.
      Why is that the folks with no rebuttal go straight for the typos.
      I noticed you did it above as well.
      Telling...

      May 18, 2012 at 7:45 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Mr. Knee, no it is a oft-repeated error combined with unintelligent and non-contributory posts that expose IQ.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:07 am |
    • Robert

      So much time spent on personal attacks, so little devoted to argument substance.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • just sayin

      @robert
      You are more of the problem than the solution. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • Robert

      More personal attack from the professed folllower of the god of love thy neighbor?
      Actions speak louder than words and youu and yours are showing us all what you're really about.
      Do go on.
      What's next, death threats?

      May 18, 2012 at 8:45 am |
  12. Robert

    Delusion:
    A belief held with strong conviction despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
    AKA-Religion

    May 18, 2012 at 7:10 am |
    • Do tell

      Please enlighten us all about exactly what this "strong overwhelming evidence" is that God does not exist. Do you know with 100% certainty God does not exist? Or do you BELIEVE God does not exist? Please quantify for us all how you arrive at your statistical conclusion about God's alleged non-existence.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:41 am |
    • Robert

      Christians claim that the Universe must have been designed by something else, yet they accept that god just is.
      That would be enouugh silly to convince me but I needn't settle for that. Read the bible. the being described there as god is nothing more than a projection of rulers at the time. There's nothing saintly or even good about the creature described in the old testament. You worship a being that claims to have drowned all life on the planet in a fit of rage. Absurd.
      There is not one piece of tangible evidence to support the existance of a god. We have more evidence of dragons and unicorns. Do you also belive in them.
      And for the coup de grace, why don't you also belive in Zeus? Ra? Mithras?
      We're all atheists, I just believe in one less god than you do.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • jungleboo

      No, dear. The "strong conviction" of the delusional is that they firmly believe that they "speak for God". When you think you have the power to do that, or that your pastor does that, or your elders, you are delusional. You are free to develop your own ideas and speak to yourself about them, but by no means are you welcome when try to infringe on my civil rights to live and love as I am most comfortable doing.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:00 am |
  13. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things.

    May 18, 2012 at 6:37 am |
    • angryersmell

      Just the inside of YOUR brain and YOUR behavior. Otherwise, no, it does not. I'm fairly certain if God wants to get in touch with you, God will let you know.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:56 am |
    • Robert

      Don't bother,
      This poster/bot spams this same silly message on every board all day.
      I've yet to get a list of the freedoms that atheists in America have taken from this person.
      The list of laws from the Christian right is a long one.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:07 am |
    • just sayin

      @robert
      President George H W Bush has said an atheist is not a patriot and should not be a citizen of this country, we are one nation under God. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • political analist

      Atheist laws that have hurt individual citizens and the country as a whole include laws that cater to qu-eers and laws that have removed prayer from the public school system.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:21 am |
    • Robert

      You're actually going to quote George W Bush?
      You're going to attack me witht he wrods of the biggest idiot in modern history.
      I really must have you on your heels to force you to dig that deep for such a non-rebuttal.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Some of you wish it was a silly message. Atheism is anarchic and evil. There is no coherent system of morality an atheist can point to. If they're conscious of their "image" in a society that is mostly religious, then they'll simply pick and choose from among various religious morals. In truth, there is no reason for any atheist to follow any particular moral code, after all, is some big "sky-daddy" or their favorite FSM going to punish them for not following one?

      May 18, 2012 at 7:44 am |
    • just sayin

      @robert
      George " H" W Bush, War Hero, Patriot, President. Able to read and understand statements before responding. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 7:59 am |
    • Robert

      Un Yeah, nice strawman.
      Prove it.
      Atheism isn't anarchism, or communism, just disbelief in gods.
      If you do some checking you'll find the most atheistic societies are also the most peaceful. Compare the US with 85% believers with say finland with 50%.
      You're welcome to believe but attacking atheism will just leave you looking the fool.
      We're not the enemy of religion. Religion is. Why do you suppose Jefferson made sure to make the First Amendment the one forbidding established religion?

      May 18, 2012 at 7:59 am |
    • Robert

      Just Sayin'
      My bad, I missed the H.
      Doen't make the statement any more valid.
      Thaks for the god bless, Tinkerbell says hi as well.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • Robert

      Just Sayin,
      BTW, I'm also a veteran of the US Air Force and served in the first Gulf war under Bush. If that was his sentiment then he can pucker up and smooch my atheist patriotic rear.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:07 am |
    • reply to robert

      You are a useless drag on a Christian nation and your"service" amounts to little more than a free ride on the public dime.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:11 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Robert, if you believe there is a coherent moral system followed by all athiests, then you prove it to me, because I don't believe it and neither does anyone else who isn't an atheist that needs to feel good about their beliefs. Oh, and you forgot all the murder and genocide committed by athiestic regimes that imposed atheism on their people.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • just sayin

      @robert
      You have missed a lot more than the H. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • Robert

      It's called society.
      Go to a prison and compare the number of Christians and atheists.
      The onus of proof lies with he making the ridiculous claim. Show me the correlation between atheism and anarchy or civil disobedience. Study after study show that more secular societies are much better at all levels. The fact that I'm a respected member of my community is my proof. I'm here arguing for the rights of others while you're here advocating oppression in the name of your religion.
      You're making my case for me, thanks.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:39 am |
    • Robert

      Just sayin,
      How very typically Christian of you.
      I won't agree with you so you attempt to offend me on a personal level.
      WWJD?
      The irony is you don't even see the hypocrisy in your actions.
      If Cristians spent half as much time being better people as they spend trying to force others ot conform to their beliefs, this country would be a much better place.
      But alas, you just can't seem to help yourselves.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • just sayin

      In prison "christians" get parole. Since atheist types have no moral compass about lying it is in their interests to claim abandoned faiths to reduce incarceration. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • Robert

      So your answer is that atheists are claiming to be Christians so they can get parole?
      You claim we're going to burn in hell because we don't believe and we ignore you and risk burning in hell yet you also believe that we would accept your dogma to avoid a little jail time?
      Did you bother to think that through or did you just type the first thing that came to mind?
      Got anything else or was that your best support?
      It's late in the fourth, third and long, and you're going with that?

      May 18, 2012 at 8:50 am |
  14. jemzinthekop

    Look let's face it, if anyone with half a brain looks at the bible it is clear that is it just a collection of archetypal mythological works that have been passed on for centuries from bronze-aged tribesmen to each other. There is no fact to any of it – talking snakes, giant boats, giants, men living in whales, water to wine, raising of the dead etc.... clearly it was humans with limited knowledge of anything trying to explain their existence through myth. If the story of Jack and the Beanstock has been written into Ezekiel then we'd people would be selling magic beans with the face of the Angel Gabriel on it for all we know.

    The point is, just stop looking to this collection of stories to tell you how to live in a world far more evolved and knowledgeable about how life has come to be and how we should treat each other (see "peace and equality"). The bible, the qu'ran, the bhagavad gita all belong in the same literary category as The book of the dead, The Odyssey and Gulliver's Travels.

    May 18, 2012 at 6:33 am |
    • hellonews

      jemzinthekop...i'd be willing to bet there are millions of people in the world that are "smarter" than you are who are Christians...please don't insult Christian's as being stupid and ignorant...a majority of the world's great thinkers have been Christian...look at the evidence...there's MORE than enough historical, archaelogical, EYEWITNESS from the 12 disciples (11 of whom staunchly defended what they saw and died for these beliefs). As far as the evolved way of life...that's ridiculous...most people are far more miserable than they were 50 years ago...what's the divorce rate, child abuse rate, etc etc etc?

      May 18, 2012 at 6:44 am |
    • Onslow

      Incredibly well said – and completely correct. Thank you!!

      May 18, 2012 at 6:47 am |
    • jemzinthekop

      Hellonews..... tell me all about the talking snakes please. According to the bible we were all borne out of inbreeding in a forest in the Middle East.... good stuff there.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:49 am |
    • Onslow

      clarification – jemzinthekop is absolutely correct, not hellonews.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:50 am |
    • Robert

      Hellonews, Smart- perhaps. Deluded? Most Certainly.
      Almost all of us grow up believing what our parents and society tell us is the truth. At one time or another most of us believe in Santa Clause as well. As we develope our reasoning abilites we question these truths and we abandon our belief in Santa because it makes no sense. Unfortunately those around us prop up the belief in god out of fear and insecurity. So many of us continue professing this belief. Deep down in places you don't show others you know it's all nonsense but your fear of death forces you to rationalize your way into maintaining these beliefs. That's fine, you're not hurting anyone else. Until you and those like you start passing laws to control others and force them to conform to your beliefs. In this way you're no better than the Taliban. But don't feel too badly, Christians have been doing this for over 2000 years, why should it all end with you?

      May 18, 2012 at 7:04 am |
    • jemzinthekop

      I will admit there are millions of Muslims and millions of Hindus that are also smarter than me.... does that mean they are right to? Or does it just mean that they were born in a geographic region that is predisposed to their religion and culturally are more or less forced to believe the same or risk being ostracized from their family and their community? Is it possible that the fear of punishment and the thirst for reward that all religion's promise is powerful enough to even make intelligent people blow themselves up on a bus and constantly tell others what the definition of righteousness is based upon the commands of invisible men and childrens' stories?

      May 18, 2012 at 7:06 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Don't know about snakes but parrots from the jungle talk very well. Archeological evidence has been found of many giant body parts and hand tools. Mainstream science is as bad as a man in dress saying,only I can talk to God.PS. Maybe parrots can throw their voice and they thought it was a serpent

      May 18, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • WASP

      @hellonews
      "jemzinthekop...i'd be willing to bet there are millions of people in the world that are "smarter" than you are who are Christians...please don't insult Christian's as being stupid and ignorant...a majority of the world's great thinkers have been Christian...look at the evidence...there's MORE than enough historical, archaelogical, EYEWITNESS from the 12 disciples (11 of whom staunchly defended what they saw and died for these beliefs). As far as the evolved way of life...that's ridiculous...most people are far more miserable than they were 50 years ago...what's the divorce rate, child abuse rate, etc etc etc?"

      1) people aren't more miserable than they were 50 years ago, we haven't been following happiness but for a few years.
      2) if you were to go to the time of jesus, you would find the birth mortality rate would be over 50% seeing mothers were around the age of 13+ when they started having children due to the life expectancy being around 40-50 years of age.
      3) if you went to the time of jesus, you would find people disease riden covered in body lice and various parasites; food and water quality were far worse due to the fact waste was often mixed in with the drinking water seeing the village up river would be washing their live stock in the river.
      4)"look at the evidence...there's MORE than enough historical, archaelogical, EYEWITNESS from the 12 disciples (11 of whom staunchly defended what they saw and died for these beliefs)." quoting scripture as truth when said books' authenticity is being questioned is called circular logic; you are using the book to prove the book which doesn't work in a true intellectual debate.....oh any good fictional work has landmarks and other known concepts written in so the reader can become more involved with the book.
      5) i would say atheists are more intellectual seeing we do try and find answers to questions other than "god did it" great minds through history were of a religious faith, however they had to hide the fact they were studying science due to the fact the church would either call them a heretic and execute them, or lock them in their own home for the rest of their lives. not to mention religious folk require a punishment/reward system to encourage them to be good people, atheists need no such encouragement. don't believe me look at almost any prison and 99% in those prisons are of some kind of religious faith, mainly christian and were when they commited the crimes.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:27 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Segregation was 50years ago

      May 18, 2012 at 7:30 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Yes, just like this supremely intelligent person said, don't rely on long established moral codes! Go with the young people's "morality of the day". They've surely had the experience to know better than thousands of years of moral tradition.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:50 am |
    • WASP

      @Um, yeah
      Yes, just like this supremely intelligent person said, don't rely on long established moral codes! Go with the young people's "morality of the day". They've surely had the experience to know better than thousands of years of moral tradition."

      so the morality would this happen to be the morality you were talking about?
      "30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
      31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
      32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
      33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
      34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
      35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
      36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
      37And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
      38And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day."

      UMMM YEAH teaching children about the multiple counts of incest makes this such a moral book. every choosen of god in this book populated the world through incest.......ever wonder why? hmmmm maybe because "keeping it in the family" is a literal meaning of incest because those in power wanted to keep the power in their own family, how's that for putting the bible in context.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:50 am

      May 18, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • Um, yeah

      First, no Christian believes God approved of the behavior you quote from the Bible. Second, if you are an atheist, tell me why what they did was wrong, because you want it to be? Tell me what moral standard you point to in order to condemn such behavior? Your own subjective thoughts? The Bible?

      May 18, 2012 at 8:17 am |
    • Robert

      Your "moral tradition" dictates that you should kill disobedient children. Do you also follow that? Why not?

      May 18, 2012 at 8:53 am |
  15. SOAPY32

    i sleep fine thank you for asking i pray to god holy spirit for peace you should try it sometime IT WORKS WONDERS!!!

    May 18, 2012 at 6:25 am |
  16. 0Patrick0

    What so many of these responses proves is that Christian fundamentalists are as tyrannical as any Muslim zealots they love to heap infamy on, and both construe their sacred scriptures to their own purposes. Unfortunately, both miss the fundamental message of either, that God/Allah loves us and commands us to love each other. That I can admire even from my atheist perspective, but all this hatred spewed defiles either religion.

    May 18, 2012 at 6:20 am |
    • BamaDaniel

      Yes ,but this is America ,we write the rules as we play the game

      May 18, 2012 at 7:38 am |
    • Get it right

      Where did God / Jesus ever say "Go, and by the way just do whatever feels good too! Because I love ya, man!"

      May 18, 2012 at 7:51 am |
    • Robert

      You're still arguing that we should only do what the bible says.
      You're free to live by the bible if you like.
      We're free to ignore it if we like
      Deal with it.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:02 am |
  17. jemzinthekop

    Was it the talking snake that told you all this?

    May 18, 2012 at 6:20 am |
  18. WASP

    i love how the christians that are busy using the story of sodom and gramore seem to forget or choose to leave out the fact that god sent two angels to save a man (lot) that rap.ed his daughters, then destroys everybody else. lots daughters even became pregnant by their father and the sons of this incest created two kingdoms. so according to these stories incest ok with god, same gender s-e-x god destroys you. lmfao these freaks don't even know what they are using to defend their stance against same gender marriage is a story about a father having incest with his daughters. sick freaks

    May 18, 2012 at 6:10 am |
    • ....

      i read it different in the bible

      lots daughters got him drunk and then banged him

      he didnt pull out

      May 18, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      They approve of incest, after all they do believe in Adam and Eve and fail to see that the only way the world could have been populated if they were the only two humans, is incest.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:34 am |
    • WASP

      @.....: " 31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
      32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
      33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
      34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
      35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose."

      so you're telling me that his daughters just out of nowhere thought it a good idea to sleep with their father? hmmmmm i doubt it. do you have children? has your daughter attempted to sleep with you? i don't think they would simply sleep with their father, it was a learned behaviour; plus they knew well the effects wine would have on their father so they had to have seen him drunk on wine before. following basic logic leads one to understand that this action had happen to the girls before hand for them to come to the decision to have s-e-x with their father. the family had just visited zoar and i'm certain there were men there in that town. so again god saved an incent family, yet destroyed two whole towns of gays........yeah that makes sense.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:05 am |
    • MCR

      But if you read the story more carefully and in context, it becomes very clear that the Bible condemns what Lot's daughters did, and doesn't condone it. The daughters of Lot would go on to bear children through that union with their father, who would become fathers to nations that were infamous for their immorality and became the enemies of the Israelites.The lesson here is that sometimes the full impact of the sins of the present do not have their full effect until years or even generations later.

      Why did G-d send angels to save Lot, then? Because compared to the other residents of Sodom, he was still relatively pious, and G-d extended mercy to him in his current state at that time and that Lot had the potential to do good.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:13 am |
    • MCR

      WASP: "Lot's daughters were modest, righteous women whose actions were nobly motivated. Thinking that the rest of the world had been destroyed in the upheaval of Sodom...they felt that it was their responsibility to save the human race by bearing children, even though the only living male was their own father. " (Artscroll Chumash)

      May 18, 2012 at 7:20 am |
    • WASP

      @MCR
      "Lot's daughters were modest, righteous women whose actions were nobly motivated. Thinking that the rest of the world had been destroyed in the upheaval of Sodom...they felt that it was their responsibility to save the human race by bearing children, even though the only living male was their own father. " (Artscroll Chumash)"

      they had just left ZOAR......what there weren't any men in zoar? that's a load of _______. these girls were trained that it was ok to sleep with their father, they had no delusion they were the last people on earth."30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters."

      May 18, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • WASP

      @mcr: "All sin is equal in its effect on our relationship to God."
      "1 Corinthians 6:18, Paul says, "Flee from s-e-xual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins s-e-xually sins against his own body."

      May 18, 2012 at 7:45 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Methinks you need to learn some theology. No Christian believes God approved of the acts you mention, and the Bible certainly does not say God condoned them. In fact, Biblical characters were often punished for such sins.

      May 18, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • Robert

      Samuel 15:3
      "Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do
      not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and
      sheep, camel and donkey."

      I guess genocide is ok so long as the god of love orders it.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:01 am |
  19. ILoveJesus

    John 3:16

    May 18, 2012 at 6:07 am |
    • MASSIVE BALLS

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0xQcEH7Dqo&w=640&h=360]

      May 18, 2012 at 6:18 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Wow, now the guy in the video looks like someone everyone should listen to. ..not...

      May 18, 2012 at 7:57 am |
    • Morons Dismiss Things Based On Face Value

      Whatever you say A=S=S=H=O=L=E

      May 18, 2012 at 8:12 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Oh, I get it. You put the person in the video forward because of their supreme intelligence? LOL

      May 18, 2012 at 8:19 am |
  20. pkp

    IGNORANT. MOST of these comments are simply IGNORANT. I like it how people who don't LIVE by the BIBLE try to quote scriptures and curse at other people. Hmm......MUST be GAY. Gays and lesbians ALWAYS are the ones who are trying to PUSH their life choice on straight folks. The REAL issue is this: people can interpret, re-interpret, twist the scriptures any way they want. That's ok. Because Judgment is coming sooner than when we first BELIEVED. REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND. Sound familiar to all of you athiests and agnostics and nicolatians?

    May 18, 2012 at 6:05 am |
    • MASSIVE BALLS

      I'll go ahead and overhand fap to this insightful bit of information.

      Oh yeah. Fuck yeah.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:19 am |
    • jemzinthekop

      Was it the 700 year old man on the giant boat with polar bears, lions, beavers and elephants all sailing together that gave you the insight pkp?

      May 18, 2012 at 6:22 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      pkp: The only ignorant one here is you! Gays and lesbians are not trying to do anything but be treated equally. We Atheists, unlike you fundiots believe they should be. We Atheists, know that they do not make a choice to be gay or lesbian and that they are born this way. We Atheists, have read the book and have been able to see it for what it is. Most fundiots have not read the book and as your post proves only cherry pick it. We are not the ones using unfounded threats on you. You have no evidence outside of the buybull for god, jesus, heaven or hell. You obviously know nothign about us or you would not be sounding like a child. Imaginary friends are only things that children under the age of 6 have or that schizophrenics have...so which are you?

      "I contend that we are both Atheists, when you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you'll understand why I dismiss yours"

      May 18, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • Aaron

      pkp; You should get hit by a car or fall off a bridge so you can get off to your magical land in the sky. Where people walk on water, part oceans and live inside whales... We'll all meet you there later I promis. But you have to go first.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:32 am |
    • JWT

      No I do not believe in your god at all. None of what your god says applies to me

      May 18, 2012 at 6:33 am |
    • Robert

      PKP, You can argue your side but to claim atheists are ignorant shows that you know nothing about atheists, making you the ignorant one. Instead of just attacking those you disagree with, you might try learning why we disagree. Most of us were once believers but then we grew up and learned to think for ourselves. I began to question what I held as the truth when it became apparent ot me that there were many contradictions in what I was being taught. So I decided to read the bible and see for myself what was written there. It was through educating myself on Christianity that I became an atheist, not through ignorance. Educate yourself.

      May 18, 2012 at 6:55 am |
    • Um, yeah

      Sorry dude, it's not necessary to twist the passages about h.o.m.o.s.e.x.uality (unless you support it, then you have to tap-dance), because they're pretty clear in the Greek as well as the English.

      May 18, 2012 at 8:00 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.