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Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Readers responded to a professor's views on the issue.
May 17th, 2012
02:10 PM ET

Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - and, by extension, same-sex marriage - right?

A guest "My Take" post we ran this week from a college psychology professor who has a background in religion (he was ordained a Roman Catholic priest, for instance) challenged that conventional wisdom.

The professor, Daniel A. Helminiak, argues that foes of same-sex marriage have assigned modern, ethics-laden meanings to biblical passages on homosexuality to make it seem like the Bible unequivocally condemns it. In fact, Helminiak proposes, the original meanings of such passages about gays are at the very least ambiguous.

The piece has generated an avalanche of response: 10,000 Facebook shares, 6,000 comments, 200 tweets and a couple of blog posts.  Giving the other side its say, here's a rebuttal roundup of critical reactions from across the Internet:

Kevin DeYoung, a conservative Christian blogger, calls Helminiak's piece "amazing for including so many bad arguments in so little space." DeYoung, who leads a Reformed Church in Michigan, challenges Helminiak's argument that the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't condemn homosexuality per se.

"Jude 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities 'indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,' " DeYoung writes.

"Even the NRSV, translation of choice for the mainline (and the version Helminiak seems to be using), says 'pursued unnatural lust,' ” he continues, referring to the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

"Clearly, the sins of Sodom lived in infamy not simply because of violent aggression or the lack of hospitality, but because men pursued sex with other men."

DeYoung also takes issue with our guest blogger's argument that the Greek term the New Testament writer Paul uses when describing homosexuality, para physin, has been misconstrued by modern translators to mean "unnatural." Helminiak says that the original term does not contain ethical judgment and should be translated instead as "atypical" or "unusual."

Absurd, says DeYoung. "We know Paul considered same-sex intercourse an ethical violation, and not simply something uncommon. ... (N)otice what Paul goes on to say: 'Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error' (NRSV)."

DeYoung writes, "When you read the whole verse, Helminiak’s 'nonethical' argument becomes implausible. Paul thought homosexuality not just unusual, but wrong, a sinful error deserving of a 'due penalty.' '"

On Facebook, Helminiak’s piece, "My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality," provoked a mix of positive and negative response. Some of the latter was very, very negative.

"The following article appeared on the front page of CNN. ... I was so grieved and troubled, I had to respond to the writer," Vince Smith wrote on his Facebook page Thursday. "This is what is most tragic and terrifying about beliefs on homosexuality in this nation.

"When you take Scripture and twist it to 'reinterpet' what it means, and then teach others, you are literally playing with fire ... eternal fire," Smith continued. "I pray that The Lord has mercy on Mr. Helminiak."

Readers' comments on the piece included much criticism, too (although there was plenty of support for Helminiak’s argument).

"Daniel's argument misses the glaringly obvious condemnation of gay sex in the Bible," writes a commenter named Mike Blackadder. "Catholics believe it is a mortal sin when it is premarital, masturbatory, and when we deny the possibility of conceiving children (i.e., through the use of contraceptives).

"Unfortunately, the faith suggests that gay sex falls under the same category as these others and if we interpret differently for gays, then we must accept a new interpretation of these other acts for the same reason," Blackadder writes. "The corollary is that if your faith accepts hetero impurities (such as contraceptives or [masturbation]) but condemns gays, then you may be rightfully accused of hypocrisy."

Many commenters avoided quibbling with Helminiak’s logic, instead taking aim at the piece's very existence.

"Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want.

"You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are."

On Twitter, most RTs, or retweets, endorsed the piece, but not all. "Another pastor,"  tweeted @BarbRoyal "trying to pretend the ugly parts out of the Xtian (Christian) bible. ..."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments • Gay marriage

soundoff (3,580 Responses)
  1. Captain UnderPants

    I still find it amazing that people still have so much faith in this fairy tale book. That really is what it is, a fairy tale book. The amount of plagiarism in the bible is astounding.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • SAS6907

      You do not understand the God, our Creator. God is love:
      4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 [b] bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

      8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of [c] prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I [d]became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror [e]dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the [f]greatest of these is love.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Hyokan

      Some examples of plagiarism would be nice. Since you know of countless examples.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      SAS6907, do your country a huge favor and go open a science book PLEASE. From my perspective then, according to your definition of "love", most if not all religions are anti-love given their violent history and ability to divide human beings based on things that should not divide people to begin with.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • Tom Paine

      All I can say is continue to be amazed Captain. The number of folks involved in Biblical studies is very much on the upswing. Seminary enrollment is high these days. And Bible sales continue to be quite strong. But look at the bright side, seems like you will have a lifetime of being able to log on to message boards and mock other people.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • Primewonk

      SAS6907 wrote, "You do not understand the God, our Creator. God is love:"

      Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sèxual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death

      Deuteronmy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and ràpes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

      Can't you just feel the love!

      May 18, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Joe Matrinez

      I still find it amazing that people believe that the Bible is a fairytale book. That peoples faith is something made up by the mind and has no value at all. Just because a pedophile thinking crazy man said so and told you to think that....still amazing.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Tom Paine, you're hilarious! Do you wanna know the biggest difference between a "Christian" and an atheist? Answer: The atheist has actually read the Judeo-Christian "bible".

      May 18, 2012 at 10:28 am |
  2. Tom Paine

    One day, I'll be able to say, "Computer, scan through the comments sections on religious articles, delete all comments that simply attack faith in general, and then display the rest for me to read."

    May 18, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • Peteyroo

      All faith? Including Islam, judaism, etc.?

      May 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Tom Paine

      Absolutely! I am interested in all faith stories, particularly monotheistic ones, and the way different people of faith view things. And CNN does a fairly good job of doing a cross section of stories. But for me, imagine if you liked working on Chevy pickup trucks and would go to boards and had to scan through countless comments of, "Chevy's suck", "I don't know why anyone would buy a Chevy", "Chevy's aren't even real trucks" to get through to read the comments of people actually interested in Chevy Trucks.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:13 am |
  3. maff

    Gay MARRIAGE is like a man trying to join an all female club, or a woman trying to join an all male one. Seems like pure defiance to me. Fighting for something that by definition is not for you. If you want to be in the club, you follow the rules. men with women, women with men. You dont like the club rules, you make your own club...enjoy the same benefits and all. Our club is called Marriage, your club can be called something similar, or totally different, up to you. It really is that simple. After all, we all have the right to join the Marriage club... just gotta follow he rules. Otherwise, you will have to join a club with rules more to your liking.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • sam stone

      equal protection under the law is a civil right.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • maff

      yeah so... how does that go against what I just said

      May 18, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Maff, is life a club?

      May 18, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • SpongeBob SquarePunts

      maff, the rules of your club state that if your brother dies without a male heir, you are required to marry his wife, even if you have one of your own, and keep impregnating her until you produce a male heir for your brother. I sure don't see you Christians following this club rule. In fact, it was primarily Christians who made this practice illegal in the US. I guess we're going to have to kick you all out of your own club until you get anti-polygamy laws overturned and start following ALL of the club rules.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Acceptance not tolerance

      I'm very much attracted to smart men like you. let's date. We could even marry in my state. Bonus!

      May 18, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • maff

      Did I say anything about God? I said that marriage is defined already. Its a club with club rules. You can join the club. Every one can. But you gotta follow the rules. No one is stopping you but you. because you dont like the rules. So you want to change the rules. Why? Why not make your own club, with your own rules? I leave God out of that argument because its an argument you cant win.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • sam stone

      maff: marriage rules are not "set". they are open to whatever man wants them to be

      May 18, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Primewonk

      Maff – you seem to assume that the definition of marriage is static. It isn't. It changes over time, location, and culture. You, and other ignorant hômophobic bigots simply want to fix the definition to what you personally want it to be.

      You, and the other ignorant religious hômophobic bigots can whine about it all you want – and we fully expect you folks to do so – but it won't change a thing. You do not have the right to tell a group of US citizens they can't have the same civil rights you have, simply because you think they are icky.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • DrBob

      Exactly. Blacks can have their own drinking fountains as long as they don't use ours, right? History tells us that separate but equal does not work and that separate can never be equal. Please read your history books.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Our club is called Marriage, your club can be called something similar, or totally different, up to you"

      You know people believed in segregation between African Americans and Whites too and it was eventually proven that it wasn't equal. Equality means = civil rights and the U S Supreme court has already ruled that marriage is a civil right.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • maff

      I have nothing against gay folk. Not bigotted at all. And I knew one of you dummies would try to compare it black and white, civil rights movement, segregation and all that. But it is not the same. marriage as define between man and woman, cannot be compared to an all white club that wont allow black people in. Black cannot become white. But a gay man can marry a woman if he wants to. does not make much sense to do so, but he could. the only thing stopping him is his preference. A black man does not prevent himself from joining a white club, the club does. So as I said. Anyone can get married.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  4. Acceptance not tolerance

    Both Billy Mays and Ron Popeil were working on potions that would eliminate hatred but they were assasinated by the religious right.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:05 am |
  5. DragonSlayer Lights Your Fire

    Yawn

    May 18, 2012 at 10:05 am |
  6. letsgotoheaven

    In Geneses God said if you eat of the tree you will die. The serpent said you will not. God said the gay life style is wrong. Do we listen to man or God?

    May 18, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • sam stone

      Iron age sheep boinkers said it was wrong, not god

      May 18, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      Well I'll trust the side that knows how to spell Genesis.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Man since God doesn't exist.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • SpongeBob SquarePunts

      I certainly don't trust a parent who leaves his children unsupervised in the woods and allows the most evil being to ever exist to have access to them. Would you?

      May 18, 2012 at 10:15 am |
    • YeahRight

      "God said the gay life style is wrong. Do we listen to man or God?"

      Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. What your bible does condemn is male prostitution, idolatry and worshiping a pagan god using sex.

      The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      May 18, 2012 at 10:50 am |
  7. Christine

    As a christian, it is and never was our place to judge any one person or group for their differrent beliefs, even if we think it is wrong. That has always been the first rule from God's teachings is to always love people and to never judge, because its not our place. So as far as Christians hating gay people and condeming them and telling them they are wrong..We are wrong. Our job is love people like Christ loves us and to share our faith with others as they accept it, not throw the bible at them and tell them they are going to hell. We need to re-define ourselves and what we were put on the earth to do.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • sam stone

      A good way to start is marriage equality

      May 18, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • SAS6907

      We don't hate people, we have the heart of God, who hates sin.
      We are compassionate, peace loving, uniters. But we are called to give an account of the faith that is in us,
      and remind everyone who Jesus is. Didn't Jesus get really mad at the sellers outside the temple?
      Of course He did, and you also should be upset over the way the world is going. Your heart/spirit should be grieved
      and tormented by the actions of evil people. But do not sin.
      God bless you.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • SpongeBob SquarePunts

      As Christine mentioned, Jesus requires we love each other and not judge others. And God, he gave us freewill. Yet Christians hate, they judge, and they try to usurp the freewill God gave us by forcing others to adhere to their beliefs. Hypocrisy at its finest.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Madtown

      we are called to give an account of the faith that is in us
      ----–
      No, you're not called upon. It's states in the bible that worship should occur as a personal practice, behind closed doors, so your intentions are not betrayed and you're not at all open to a false display while trying to impress or influence someone.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • sam stone

      "Your heart/spirit should be grieved and tormented by the actions of evil people."

      Like those who purport to speak for god?

      If you love your fellow man, support marriage equality and let god worry about the "sin"

      May 18, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • DrBob

      Wow, thank you Christine. It's so sad that so many Christians use the bible to justify hatred and bigotry. I can't even fathom that this is what God or Jesus had in mind.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      SAS........why do you agonize and strive with those who make mockery of you even though you speak kind and show them love? Yes, God is love, yes He weeps over His creation, but you do see that you're throwing your pearls to the swine, who are rending them and turning on you, don't you?
      Christ taught us not to do so! !

      May 18, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
  8. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Grow up

      Right, it's best to brainwash them early instead of giving them the chance to decide on such an important life decision when they are adults. You are a blow hard.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Really? How many children of the Holocaust did prayer save? And children who die of cancer with their tormented, praying parents at their bedside? And if prayer is so effective, why are there still so many of us atheists still around? You can't tell me you don't pray every day for atheists, gays, and other undesireables to suffer horrible deaths. How's that working out for you?

      May 18, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      They were praying to the wrong God.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Proven

      May 18, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      I have no life. Proven.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Christ has come that we may have life and life abundant !

      May 18, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      And I still wet my pants. PS – Girls are icky

      May 18, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      I like to touch myslef when nobody is looking.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      And when little children are watching.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things is a wonderful and needed Truth. When an atheist steals the name Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things that Truth still is spread, it does not matter what a fool posts next the Truth that Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things is already proclaimed.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      I have doody in my pants.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • just sayin

      It is amazing that an atheist will degenerate to perversion in desperation, so quickly after stealing a name. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things is obviously an undeniable Truth. God bless

      May 18, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Right now I'm praying that people stop mocking me. Dang, it didn't work! And I still have doody in my pants.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • DrBob

      Can you cite the studies you are using to draw this conclusion? If this is true, we need to do something about it.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      May 18, 2012 at 11:00 am |
  9. 4321Trenquility

    It is clear that religions have failed humanity. Sometime ago someone in what is now known as Alaska had said" The world is not ours to take by the horns but ours to live in and understand'.
    It has taken humanity, us, twenty thousend yrs to respect those who dedicate there lives to UNDERSDING the world. This is not to be taken lightly, Sweedenborg and Newton were ""Idiots"" by the churches then and they still remain known as such by many religious personalities. Others were burned alive for the simple reason that they used there thinking to undrestent the environment in which they lived. Most religious people were not given a chence to utilize there thinking capability when they were growing up. We must have mercy on them and help them expent there consciousness so that they can relaxe a little bit.
    I like to pause some questions to the proponents of religions.any religion. Do you understend what you talk about? Do you know the prebilical and biblical meaning of the word 'god'? WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL us THE SOURCE OF your wisdom, WHO ARE YOU CHENELING? Have you been to a seance? and have you wached a Disney production?

    May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • SeeBee

      Thank God for spell-checkers.

      Seriously, your post is quite difficult to understand. If you have a point to make, please make it comprehensible. If you think it's important enough for others to spend some time reading, please spend some time checking your spelling and grammar before you hit the "Post" button.

      This is not pendantry. If people can't understand what you're trying to say they will a) not read your post; b) think you're an idiot; c) reject what you're trying to say, either because they misunderstand or because they automatically reject the opinions of idiots; or d) all of the above.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:23 am |
  10. Dave

    This doesn't even matter. the Bible is just a book written by man, and there is no God. That was written by man too. Shame on anyone who lets myth and delusion go before their American patriotism. This doesn't even matter. the Bible is just a book written by man, and there is no God. God was written by man too. Shame on anyone who lets myth and delusion go before their American patriotism. All religion is just mass-delusion. The Bible doesn’t mean anything more to the gay lifestyle than the Betty Crocker cookbook.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
  11. danSeAnnTinAeN

    "..."Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks ... iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want."

    Oh that is so sacred and so christian and so kind. Just what Jesus would say. Yep, that beJesus of that cult that calls itself Chirichiri tintin-Insane... you know, the one where they believe in imaginary beings in some heaven above a flat earth.

    Sorry, I felt a little bit devious making this gest. But for heaven's sake, why be so hateful to people who really have nothing to do with one's group? Christians don't own the idea of marriage. It's just their name for a way of living together. Good, I am married too. But I don't feel threatened if two men want to live together as a couple , or two women. Great. In this divorce ridden society (where up to 80-85 % claim to be christian and therefore account for a large number of those divorces) it's fine by me if two people (black and white, man woman, man man , woman woman... ) want to express their love for each other and live together. Amen.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • mandarax

      A great number of Christians do believe they own the idea of marriage. They are convinced that it was invented in the Bible.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • Joe Matrinez

      Ok, you "preach" tolerance for your gay rights....then "tolerate" our christian beliefs...just because the media outlets highlight the militant voices that are intolerant of the gay person himself and not just of the gay act, then it tunrs around to what we experience when you try to militantly shove your gay lifestyle in my face and say I have to accept it.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:09 am |
  12. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS–-–>>>>

    Because of the basic biological differences, said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.

    To wit:

    From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

    Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Are you channeling David Koresh?

      May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      "Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male."

      You've obviously never taken a good look at Marcus and Michelle Bachmann.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:04 am |
  13. Peteyroo

    David Koresh was a good Christian, right?

    May 18, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • SAS6907

      Wrong, he was a wolf in sheeps clothing, one of many who have been written about in the Word of God, the bible.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:03 am |
  14. colleen

    There just isn't any proof that the bible is anything other than a prejuicial book about men from a certain time who desired power and wrote about a god that wanted them to have power, slaves, multiple wifes and children. I have read it over and over again and it is a dreadful hate filled book written completely and totally by men. Don't take it to seriously.BTW- you cannot prove things like the Exodus even actually happened. It is only psychologically true if it makes you feel better. Everyone wants to live forever, that is the main reason people cling to the notion of a god, plus youre indoctrinated from birth which gives you little choice but to believe since believing will be a learned trait, like pride in your nationality.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:55 am |
    • SAS6907

      Does not creation itself prove to you that God's not only real but present?
      The Excellence of Love

      13 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my bod to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:01 am |
    • HT Miser

      @SAS6907

      "Does not creation itself prove to you that God's not only real but present?"

      No.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • sam stone

      "Does not creation itself prove to you that God's not only real but present?"

      No. At most, it shows the possibility of a creator.

      Man is the one who made the creator "god"

      May 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      SAS, just because the Bible says it is the word of God, doesn't make it so. Hey, the Book of Mormon claims the same thing. Why do you discard it as not being the word of God? It meets the exact criteria that you require for a book to be true.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:10 am |
  15. Chris

    All these people that use the bible to argue against gay marriage are forgetting one key fact. This country is founded on freedom of religion. If your religion's bible says gays, people who wear polyester, people who eat shellfish, etc. are evil, that's your prerogative. Don't allow them into your church. But don't use that as an argument to prevent them from obtaining purely civil, federal rights that have absolutely nothing to do with you or your religion.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:54 am |
    • SAS6907

      Actually the country was founded on the freedom OF religion.
      Please read your history carefully. Our first public school books contained the bible.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      SAS, please read Chris' comment. That was what he said. The country was founded on the idea that no one religion would become the state religion and therefore rule with an iron fist.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      Do you know that the Word of God says when Jesus Christ our Lord returns in all His glory and establishes His kingdom on this Earth He will rule with a ROD OF IRON?!
      Many do not understand the nature and character of God....
      He is merciful – to the objects of His mercy, and fearsome – to the objects of His anger!

      May 18, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
  16. J Mann

    how can you argue with anyone who believes in angels and devils, in heaven and hell? futile, at best.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:53 am |
  17. Michael

    Give people permission to hate based on religion and look out. Suddenly it's okay to do everything your creator told you not to do.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • SAS6907

      Christians are not the ones who hate. Look again and you will see that it's just about every other group.
      We are forgiven and want everyone else to be forgiven.
      God is love.
      Love is just.
      Love is discipline.
      Love is described very well in the bible, and reminds us that if you love someone, you reprove and discipline them in love.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • danSeAnnTinAeN

      SAS... just the kind of lecture we have been waiting for. Love, bible, blah blah. Love & discipline. It's always Your kind of interpretation that counts. Besides, that god in that bible is a pretty vicious authoritarian character. All the anger it displays, the killings he caused or ordered, the punishments, hell, brimstone. Must somehow touch a nerve in your person.

      Love, person loves person, doesn't matter much if the person is a man loving a man or a woman loving a woman or a woman loving a man. It's about love as you said so yourself, before you went off the deep end with your slavish interpretation. Wait, slavish, hey, slavery is ok too, according to the bible. Well then, that clears is all up...

      May 18, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      "Love" between members of the human species has always existed. Any one religion doesn't own what human-kind has done since its beginning. We've evolved with chemicals that motivate us to "love" our offspring and others around us. You're just another brainwashed id iot who knows little about reality.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:14 am |
  18. F_cking guy

    You know no less than 300 years ago that book also said everyone who is white is going to heaven. Everyone else is going to hell, It's an old book with old values that weren't relavent then or now. The worlds a whole lot better now because less follow.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:52 am |
  19. DeeCee1000

    Look up Mormon founder Joseph Smith. If you think the Judeo-Christian bible is wacked, you will really freak out on what Joseph Smith taught his followers about:
    Blacks--that humanity started out an white race and that some were then cursed with black skin for being evil. (Jesus told him this in person.)
    "Golden Plates": two plates with writing on them that he found while digging in his backyard one day. No one else ever saw them and they were supposedly taken up into "heaven" by an angel before anyone else could get a chance to actually see them.
    "The Book of Abraham": Before scientists were able to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics, Joseph Smith claimed that he could read hieroglyphics and said that a collection of them were actually "The Book of Abraham". Later on, once scientists actually deciphered the Egyptian hieroglyphics, there is no dispute that the Egyptian writing has nothing to do with the Judeo-Christian "Abraham".
    Jesus a polygamist: Joseph Smith convinced his followers that the Judeo-Christian "Jesus" was actually married to several women which meant that polygamy was holy. This in turn meant that Joseph Smith was obligated to take 20+ wives, many of whom were in their early and mid teen years at the time of their marriage to him.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      Why are you talking about the Book of Mormon? We are talking about the Bible.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      "We are talking about the bible". . .

      Uh possibly because the Mormon "religion" uses parts of the Judeo-Christian bible to attack other people's civil rights.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:07 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      But that's the Bible, not the Book of Mormon. Nobody is debating about the Book of Mormon here.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Maybe you should go do a little bit of studying on the matter before attempting to argue for my civil rights. Thanx.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:35 am |
  20. PrimeNumber

    Anyone who has witnessed the birth of a human being understands the power of human sekshuality. After that, gay/lesbian relationships, loving though they might be, are not sekshual at all. Only androgynous.

    May 18, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      You are looking at marriage as purely a means to reproduce. So should a man who is paralyzed from the waist down be allowed to marry?

      May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      My marriage has nothing to do with your religious beliefs.

      May 18, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • sybaris

      Wow PrimeNumber, I hope you don't drive a car.

      May 18, 2012 at 10:01 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.