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Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Readers responded to a professor's views on the issue.
May 17th, 2012
02:10 PM ET

Your Take: Rebuttals to rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - and, by extension, same-sex marriage - right?

A guest "My Take" post we ran this week from a college psychology professor who has a background in religion (he was ordained a Roman Catholic priest, for instance) challenged that conventional wisdom.

The professor, Daniel A. Helminiak, argues that foes of same-sex marriage have assigned modern, ethics-laden meanings to biblical passages on homosexuality to make it seem like the Bible unequivocally condemns it. In fact, Helminiak proposes, the original meanings of such passages about gays are at the very least ambiguous.

The piece has generated an avalanche of response: 10,000 Facebook shares, 6,000 comments, 200 tweets and a couple of blog posts.  Giving the other side its say, here's a rebuttal roundup of critical reactions from across the Internet:

Kevin DeYoung, a conservative Christian blogger, calls Helminiak's piece "amazing for including so many bad arguments in so little space." DeYoung, who leads a Reformed Church in Michigan, challenges Helminiak's argument that the biblical tale of Sodom and Gomorrah doesn't condemn homosexuality per se.

"Jude 7 states that Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities 'indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,' " DeYoung writes.

"Even the NRSV, translation of choice for the mainline (and the version Helminiak seems to be using), says 'pursued unnatural lust,' ” he continues, referring to the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

"Clearly, the sins of Sodom lived in infamy not simply because of violent aggression or the lack of hospitality, but because men pursued sex with other men."

DeYoung also takes issue with our guest blogger's argument that the Greek term the New Testament writer Paul uses when describing homosexuality, para physin, has been misconstrued by modern translators to mean "unnatural." Helminiak says that the original term does not contain ethical judgment and should be translated instead as "atypical" or "unusual."

Absurd, says DeYoung. "We know Paul considered same-sex intercourse an ethical violation, and not simply something uncommon. ... (N)otice what Paul goes on to say: 'Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error' (NRSV)."

DeYoung writes, "When you read the whole verse, Helminiak’s 'nonethical' argument becomes implausible. Paul thought homosexuality not just unusual, but wrong, a sinful error deserving of a 'due penalty.' '"

On Facebook, Helminiak’s piece, "My Take: What the Bible really says about homosexuality," provoked a mix of positive and negative response. Some of the latter was very, very negative.

"The following article appeared on the front page of CNN. ... I was so grieved and troubled, I had to respond to the writer," Vince Smith wrote on his Facebook page Thursday. "This is what is most tragic and terrifying about beliefs on homosexuality in this nation.

"When you take Scripture and twist it to 'reinterpet' what it means, and then teach others, you are literally playing with fire ... eternal fire," Smith continued. "I pray that The Lord has mercy on Mr. Helminiak."

Readers' comments on the piece included much criticism, too (although there was plenty of support for Helminiak’s argument).

"Daniel's argument misses the glaringly obvious condemnation of gay sex in the Bible," writes a commenter named Mike Blackadder. "Catholics believe it is a mortal sin when it is premarital, masturbatory, and when we deny the possibility of conceiving children (i.e., through the use of contraceptives).

"Unfortunately, the faith suggests that gay sex falls under the same category as these others and if we interpret differently for gays, then we must accept a new interpretation of these other acts for the same reason," Blackadder writes. "The corollary is that if your faith accepts hetero impurities (such as contraceptives or [masturbation]) but condemns gays, then you may be rightfully accused of hypocrisy."

Many commenters avoided quibbling with Helminiak’s logic, instead taking aim at the piece's very existence.

"Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want.

"You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are."

On Twitter, most RTs, or retweets, endorsed the piece, but not all. "Another pastor,"  tweeted @BarbRoyal "trying to pretend the ugly parts out of the Xtian (Christian) bible. ..."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments • Gay marriage

soundoff (3,580 Responses)
  1. TheMagusNYC

    Since the term "marriage" unfortunately has been written into civil code, with all its rights and responsibilities, civil authorities are bound not to deny marriage licenses based on gender. Let the churches handle to sacraments however they wish, and deny them to members according to their own criteria, but it just is not feasible to rewrite all the pertinent civil code merely to remove the loaded term.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • GodPot

      Christians can just come up with a new word to define their God sanctioned relationships, maybe "Christarriage" or "Marrigod" or "Holy Matrimoly"...

      May 18, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
    • john jaun

      @ godpot. or you can just continue to antagonize Christians by purposely going after something they claim is holy.

      May 18, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
  2. Frank

    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people!

    May 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "but the appalling silence of the good people!"

      Yes fighting for someone civil rights has always been viewed as good by history. Now think back on what it took for African Americans and women to get their civil rights, it took good people fighting the prejudice and bigotry of those brainwashed by ancient beliefs.

      May 18, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
  3. Frank

    A nation or civilization that continues to produce soft-minded men purchases its own spiritual death on the installment plan.
    Martin Luther King, Jr

    May 18, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      I'll take that over what they say God said

      May 18, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • El Duderino (if you're not into the whole brevity thing)

      There are gays and lesbians in our military that are more rough and brave than you'll ever be. Besides, tolerance to gays and lesbians doesn't make us all soft and gay. It's not a contagious virus.

      May 18, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
  4. Terry

    Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

    I don't see any ambiguity here. I think the Bible is pretty clear on the subject. Whether or not you chose to believe the Bible is your right...

    May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • SkepticOne

      Job 13:5 (New International Version)
      If only you would be altogether silent! For you, that would be wisdom.

      I like this passage... works for you.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • Voxovreeson

      So if you believe in the Bible, then Leviticus provides clear instruction about what to not do. If you don't believe in the Bible, then Leviticus is a meaningless fairytale. Now....convince me why one one of those choices is being imposed upon US citizens through law, despite the First Amendment being fairly clear on the separation between religion and government

      May 18, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • SkepticOne

      Or....
      Proverbs 31:6 (New International Version)
      As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • waht

      There are plenty more edicts in the bible that people just ignore or just don't care. A book as dated and as flawed as the bible has no applications in a 21st century society.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • derek

      If you want to say that two men or two women is an abomination then you might want to read some more of that scripture and you would find puting two seeds in the same hole, working on sundays, wearing cloths with more than one color and lots of other dumb things are mentioned in a list why do you all foucus on just one part of that list it has lots of abominations that we all do every day

      May 18, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • Madtown

      I don't see any ambiguity here.
      -----
      You'll see plenty of ambiguity when you compare the same line of scripture across a couple different bible versions.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the holiness code. If you're going to use Leviticus are you going to follow all the things listed in that scriptures? A woman has to marry her rapist, no shellfish, no clothes made of different fibers, not tattoos, etc...etc... LOL!

      May 18, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • john jaun

      @ everyone except terry. If you want to debate at least be logical. If you want to debate the article than at least read it first. stop the straw-man arguments. Terry was responding to the article not just throwing out random verses to discriminate gays. However I am continually seeing bible versus being taken out of context to attack those who have different views than yours. Please stop the bigoted comments and try having an intelligent, rational conversation.

      May 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Madtown

      john jaun
      @ everyone except terry. If you want to debate at least be logical.
      -----
      Ok. How can you assert absolute meaning from a particular bible verse, as Terry attempted, when the same verse can differ when compared across different versions of the bible?

      May 18, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • Primewonk

      So for all the fundiots who toss around Leviticus as an example of why being gay is wrong – why are you ignoring god's command to kill gays?

      May 18, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
  5. Michael

    It doesn't matter what the bible says. We are a nation based upon man's law, not someone's interpretation of what they think God says. It's so convenient for Christians to quote bible passages when it's something that benefits them, but then leave out all the passages they don't wish to obey or agree with.

    Those who wish to live by the bible are able to – we have freedom of religion. But your freedoms stop where they infringe on MY freedoms.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • GodPot

      The problem is that the Christians have labeled all non-christians as wicked and evil and they want to be free to live without non-christians around them, so in essence, they want the freedom to stomp and grind other peoples freedoms into the ground.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
  6. Bluejeans

    The Holly Bible.....greatest work of fiction ever written....made for a pretty decent move also....when is that going to get a re-make?

    May 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      no part 2. at the end of part 1, god murders everyone.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • John

      Your statement doesn't make the Truth, a fiction!!!

      May 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
  7. Pastor Evans

    Romans 1:
    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
    29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      jibberish.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      @booty what up lunch break,that's jubberish,zeus was real see other gods in bible

      May 18, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • Voxovreeson

      Here's two words you should never use again: "cut" and "paste"

      May 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • sam stone

      Nothing more convincing than a cut and paste, pastor

      May 18, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Yeah so what, it's talking about using sex to worship a pagan god. It says NOTHING about the loving respectful relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today.

      Here I can quote something too that makes much more sense. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      May 18, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
  8. Understated

    The fact that people are arguing about God proves He exists. If He didn't, it wouldn't even occur to us to argue about His existence any more than arguing about quasars would occur to an ameoba.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      That is some utterly ridiculous reasoning you've got there...

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      so if we argue about Zeus that means he exists? be dumber.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      It's nice to know that Big Foot and the Loch Ness Monster exist since people argue about them as well.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • GodPot

      Right, and no one ever argued that Zeus existed, or that the earth was flat, and no one ever argued about quantum physics because as soon as we made the discoverys everyone automatically excepted them...

      Oh, wait, they did argue about Zeus and a flat earth, that must mean they are facts by your logic, oh no!! What should we wear to the Zeus festival, will he be angry for so many people ignoring him for so long?

      May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      I guess that means aliens exist also.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • SkepticOne

      So arguing about something means it exists??? Crap so all those Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, and He-man arguments I had as a kid made them real!!!!

      May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Who argued about a flat earth to argue is to disagree .so someone must have thought it was round to argue with someone who said it's flat

      May 18, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • GodPot

      Anyone want to argue about how Understated is likely a fluffer for the priests in his neighborhood? Anytime they are feeling flacid he hides beneath the podium and gives them a hand...

      It's all true, I just heard someone making that argument. Oh, and hey, that was me, but still, gotta be true cause you know, arguing proves it...

      May 18, 2012 at 1:29 pm |
    • GodPot

      "so someone must have thought it was round to argue with someone who said it's flat" Sadly, this statement is not true, as there are many other arguments that could be made, not just the oposing correct one. There were actually many theories put forth at the time. But amazingly the fact that some said it rested on the back of a turtle did not make it fact, as I was pointing out, just arguing about God's existence is not proof of that existence.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
  9. Michael

    @ Deborah and WASP
    Just figured I would add my two cents to WASPS comments.

    I had origionally been going to comment on the lack of notice people give the fact that humanity was created before and seperate from Adam and Eve, so now I will just add to what WASP said.

    Man was created in the first chapter of Genesis by Elohim (origional text meaning god/gods (male/female/plural). In the second chapter, tetragrammaton (a hebrew translation of the four letter word meaning Yahweh) takes it upon himself to create eden, and adam and eve... No mention after that of what happened to the rest of the people created in the beginning of the world... at least, not until Cain is sent out into the world, with a mark upon his forehead, so that all who saw him would know he belonged to Yahweh and had been cast out........ So if Adam and Eve were the only people, why would their son need to be marked to differentiate him from the rest of the "people".

    Just pointing out that considering the mistranslations and following incorrect beliefs there is very little in the bible that you can take for granted, or as having been given "directly from god", many priests/pastors take this statement and run with it saying that that is where you have to have "faith". Interesting how having faith means setting aside all normal human decency and refusing others rights to interpret the "word of god" as they feel is right and correct.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      where in the bible does it say that anyone but adam and eve were created by god? the rest of the humanity apparently came along through the incestual relations adam and/or eve had with their children.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Michael

      @ Bootyfunk

      Let me rephrase this, as obviously it was too complicated.

      In the origional Hebrew, Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 in Genesis refer to the creators of all by two different names.

      Chapter 1. Elohim (which means God [masculine/feminine/plural]) created the heavens and the earth, and all the creatures upon it, including Mankind. This is the seven day creation story.

      Then comes Genesis chapter 2. In which tetragrammaton (Hebrew word meaning Yahweh [a singular god]) creates the garden of eden in the east, and creates a man in his own image and places him there, etc, etc.

      Two different stories about two different acts...

      I will not argue whether or not the bible is the word of a god translated by man, my only question is, why would you follow a book that supports and idolizes a single deity who seems to have intentions of converting the world to his worship alone (for if there are no other gods, why then would Yahweh require that you "hold no other gods above him" – he just confirmed their existance) when said deity's followers have proven that their purpose in life is to grind any opposition to their 'holy law" into dust? Seems moronic to me.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      I think Genesis actually makes some reference to people already outside of the Garden when Adam and Eve were ousted.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Genesis 1 and 2 are both religious myths. Humans have been here in our modern form for about 200,000 years. We evolved from earlier hominids, which evolved from earlier primates, which evolved from earlier mammals, which evolved from earlier animals.

      May 18, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
  10. Drobat

    "Why can't gays leave other people's sacred things alone?" asks a commenter named iqueue120. "Instead of redefining 'marriage,' just call your pervert juncture 'pirripipirripi.' We will grant you and your 'pirripipirripi-other' all the 'rights' that you want."

    Because assh*les like you keep referring to the Bible to deny people the very rights you say you will "grant"

    May 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • Primewonk

      I wonder why folks like iqueue120 don't know that àssholes like the folks in North Carolina and Texas made so it would be unconstîtutional to allow gays to have any official relationship. They outlawed civil unions and domestic partnerships too.

      May 18, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
  11. puckles

    Peters in poop chutes is a definite NO NO.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • tony

      I was raised Catholic, I've read the bible. I am darn sure Jesus said LOVE all the time there and UNDERSTANDING, no where in the bible do i remember Jesus giving a forthcoming outright this is in plain site and hidden behind meanings long lost message of HATE AND BIGOTRY. These hate mongers and people putting meaning into things themselves and preaching that interpretation an meaning as law and edict are the exact reason i stopped believing in the concept of organized religion. ALL RELIGION has the same basic concept that no one in the world but a handful understand. THAT MESSAGE IS LOVE, JUST LOVE.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      me thinks the lady doth protest too much...

      May 18, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      jesus believed in slavery. not sure how "loving" that is.

      Luke 12:37-38
      37 "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
      38 "Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.”

      May 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
  12. The Bible

    The Bible says the following:
    Leviticus 18:22: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."
    Romans 1:26-28: "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting..."

    May 18, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      the bible is a work of fiction and shouldn't be taken seriously.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:17 pm |
    • SkepticOne

      It also says:
      Numbers 22:21-29 (New King James Version)
      Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, she turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat her to get her back on the road.

      Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between two vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam's foot against it. So he beat her again.

      Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff. Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?" Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."

      Talking Donkey, anyone? I'm waiting for Shrek to show up too...

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      don't forget the unicorns, satyrs, dragons + c.cokatrice! lol.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • TEL

      I was surprised these verses were not mentioned. Seems Pretty straight forward to me and no way to miss the meaning or reinterpret that. I am a Catholic and these days defending a pro gay article because it is written by a former priest may not mean much. The original Catholic church had married priest. Forced celibacy is very recent and should be abolished.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
  13. Deborah Torres

    OMG what i said was the Bible is the oldest book and most discussed book that grabs the attention of man and is controversial. Are we discussing those other books that more than likely you are mistaken on dates.... Why we are here discussing this?, . I am starting to believe that i am on the wrong board. No one understands the basic things i am saying and seems to understand simple logic, but Christians are dumb.... Some people here have clearly proven we arent the dumb ones,. I will have my 4 year old explain it to you. Jesus loves me this i know for the Bible TELLS me so, LOL

    May 18, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh goes the sheep.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • WASP

      @torres: "Jesus loves me this i know for the Bible TELLS me so"
      prime example of circular logic being taught to children to indoctrinate them into not questioning the bible. lol and the cool part they even did it in music form. lol

      May 18, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • sissy

      LMBO!!!! Perfectly said!!!

      May 18, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
  14. Pastor Evans

    2 Corinthians 4 :
    1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, even as we obtained mercy, we faint not: 2but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish: 4in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them . 5For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus'sake. 6Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      jesus never existed. kinda like hercules. grow up.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • TEL

      Jesus did exist, it is an historically proven fact. Also read 1 John

      May 18, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
  15. puckles

    Peters and poop chutes don't mix.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      sure they do. my wife and i have a.nal s.ex all the time. she says she has completely different o.rgasms through a.anl. just remember to use a lot of lube - you really can't use too much. and help her relax, that's very important. go slow and talk to her. stop if she seems uncomfortable. once she opens up, you can pick up speed. using a v.ibrator on her c.lit also helps open her up.

      have fun!

      May 18, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
  16. Sam Spade

    This is a waste of time. If you belong to a church / religion / etc, then follow the rules they set. If you have to set laws to prevent the possibility of a behavior, then it is not much of a religion, and you are hypocritical. If I don't follow a religion, why should I have to follow your rules? I person commenting on a news program said that they don't want the definition of marriage dictated to them ..... excuse me ... did I miss something ... like a definition being dictated.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • TEL

      Everyone in this country should study the fall of the Roman Empire. Why did it fall, we are headed down that same road.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Sam Spade

      What an inane comment. We will fall because two girls kiss. Wow what logic are you using ... if any. Or maybe it is just the two guys kissing you have a problem with 🙂 The Roman empire fell because the Emperors tortured the people – switching to the Catholic religion did not seem to help prevent anything.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
  17. retkirnov

    Some people say "Live & Let Live" while others will say "God Wills It!" and then there are still others that say this:
    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMUqhbOacQU&w=640&h=360]
    You Decide.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
  18. Lucy

    "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18). I'm done throwing pearls before swine. Peace out.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • BRC

      Have a nice day, saves us the effort of steepping over your pearls "pretty little things with no worth or value other than what people give them, that while otherwise useless have the ability to make carelss people slip and fall). Also thank you for giving me a wonderful new word for religious one liners- pearls.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      the bible is a work of fiction.

      christianity is a cult, like all religions. cults are not healthy.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
  19. Joshua the Agnostic

    The problem is that Christians don't read the Bible. They go to church and occasionally do studies that give limited excerpts of the Bible to influence the opinion of the followers. A vast majority of the Old Testament is God telling Israel, "you better stop that or I'll have to kill all of you" then proceeding to do exactly that.

    The story of Jesus was different, but it doesn't change who God is or the hundreds of thousands of people that he killed. He is God and he does not care about that.

    BTW: Don't post about Leviticus as justification for anything unless you're willing to sacrifice bulls and not eat bacon.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • Lucy

      Jesus killed NOBODY. He raised from the dead, healed and actually, the people "killed" him. If you're referring to the Crusades, that was Catholicism and has nothing to do with Jesus or the Bible. The Old Testament showed how we are to fear God and the New Testament gave us a New Covenant - love and mercy. He loves you, but ultimately, you love your sin more. And you will pay for it if you don't repent.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • Deborah Torres

      You are half right, I love bacon

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • John

      "The problem is that Christians don't read the Bible"- I am not sure if you are christian or not. But for sure your dont know what the Bible says not its message. Jesus is Lord, you like it or not!!!

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Deborah Torres

      BUT no one goes to hell for eating bacon....

      May 18, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • BillyBob

      Waddle on back to your trailer park idiot and turn on the tv before you miss your alternative family on Springer.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      study after study shows that atheists have more biblical knowledge than christians. christians buy the bible and then never read it.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • buckeyenonbeliever

      Dear Lucy,
      According to Christian dogma, Jesus is God and is Jesus. Do you not understand how the Trinity works? Although I do not believe a single word of this garbage, as a Christian you must. So, Jesus as God, DID in fact kill. Moreover, he killed the entire population of the world including, men, women, children, and animals save Noah and his clan because he saw the evil in mann according to your bible. AND then, after God/Jesus kills all of the people due to the evilness, he says he will never kill All again because man is evil!!!!!

      Sounds like a reasonable, merciful deity. Not. But the truth is, I do not care that you believe this nonsense and want to praise and worship this monster, however I do care that the fundamental, right wing, christian nutjobs want to FORCE me and everyone else to do so. That is not freedom of religion, that is tyranny.

      Good day.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • Joshua the Agnostic

      Lucy,

      You seem to be confused by my post. I never said Jesus killed people, I said God did. By God I mean Yahweh, or I Am or God the father. If you don't think he killed people you are proving my point about Christians not reading the Bible.

      I've read countless studies reporting that from 75% – 90% of Christians have not read the entire Bible. Yet you get all emotional and say I'm going go hell.

      Hell was pretty much invented by Dante. (another book you haven't read I assume) There are VERY few references to hell in the Bible and one of them is a reference to Hades which is of the Greek myths.

      I'm not in a trailer park, I'm extremely well educated, and I've read the Bible more thoroughly than most. I'm up for any question or debate.

      May 18, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
  20. Derek

    Yep we get it, it's an abomination before God. Just like wearing clothes of multiple thread. Reality check though, this is America, land of the free not controlled by the Christians. We are a secular country, get over it.

    May 18, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      well said.

      May 18, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.