Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
By Mark Osler, Special to CNN
I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.
What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.
A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.
During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.
After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.
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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).
His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.
My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality
It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.
Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.
The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.
Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!
I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.
The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.
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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.
I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.
It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.
The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.
The funny thing here is that nothing this man references even comes close to supporting his ultimate argument that God would recognize or bless gay-marriage. He is simply inserting into this article what HE thinks is being conveyed and it's bunk. Beware guys, in my humble opinion this man is just one of many that exists or is yet to come whose sole purpose is to lead people astray in these end-times (only the true Christians know this is truly the end times we're living) and take note that it is the liberal websites like CNN that are complicit towards this endeavor.
Another idiot with a prophecy. Take a number, sit down, and shut up.
We've been living in end times since the beginning of time. It's called entropy.
Spurgeon, I agree with you.
I think anyone who thinks they know a true Christian from a false Christian is a fool.
He has point. Only true Christians. Conform or die. I love it.
I agree, Spurgeon. What use is it to try to get everyone to accept gay s.e.x as normal, and marriage also and get God angrier and angrier? I don't think people realize what's going to happen because they promote this. It is spelled out in Revelation, though.
The guy is an attorney. Enough said ... what's in it for him (LOL).
Those without sin may cast the first stone. I am not a Christian but I am pretty sure that the Bible says this. So, shut up until you die, then talk to your GOD.
I'm an idiot, if you couldn't tell.....
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.
Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones,
whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! (2 Peter 2:1-14 ESV)
AMEN! Glad to see your post. This is insane! And awesome at the same time- we are living out Prophecy of the End Times. Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus and Truth, this is deceit at its finest.
This gay marriage/transgender BS is getting old CNN. IYou hvae made a big push on it the last 2 weeks, and it is getting sickening. The fact alot of news outlets are making the same push tells me it i co-ordinated. This totally smells of Media Matters and Obama.
Agreed, Scott. This is liberal-gay agenda hard at work to force us to into complacency and false acceptance. It is a demand from the liberal media outlets to denounce our faith and accept sin into our lives.
I agree, same as last election. Obama says something & then the media hammers it home day after day.
Scott. Is it not possible that there is just a large segment of people that simply don't agree with you? I know you are not used to it, the good ol days have been around for a while. But a new generation of young adults are choosing not to shackle themselves to old religious ideas. You don't have to agree with them, I will even defend your right to keep your beliefs (even though I do not share them) but to simply say its all a conspiracy to bankrupt morality is a bit of a stretch don't you think?
Why does anyone put any belief in this dusty old relic anymore anyway? Most of the bible is largely unknown, ignored, or denied by most Christians. Why should I place any value on their opinion when they dont even fully prescribe to their own doctrine? Let the simpletons continue to fade away while civilized people continue to progress. Soon they wont even be an afterthought.
Civilization will be destroyed precisely because people ignore the Bible and live contrary to its teachings. Don't believe that? We'll see soon enough.
the reason were in the mess were in is because of people giving up and thinking they can do everything on their own without any consequence why do you think the world is so corrupt its because of the athiests and liberal minded people that dont live according to the law.
Bwaajjjajjjjakkkakkakakkakkakajjahahhahha! Yeah, that MUST be the cause of all the ills in the world! Jesus Christ, get a clue you idiot!
Such a well thought and love inspired article, thank you Professor Osler, your church sounds lovely! So sad on the other hand to read the hate and bile in some of the reactions...
You know, it puzzles me why people think that Christians hate gays. If they really did, they wouldn't even bother to warn them of the wrath to come.
Yeah, I want to visit that pond. It sounds so pretty.
@Crom. You are a sad sad person. Love will always triumph over the hate you spew from your very sad and angry mouth. Your words pollute your mouth even more than the dirty river you speak of. You are so far from what Jesus asks you to be. Your day will come, and all the hate you have put forth in this world will be there on the big screen as you wait in the long line to get through the gates. You will be denied entry, I am certain. Repent while you still have time. Jesus loves us Gays just as much as he loves you.
Oh, my, whatever will I do? A schizophrenic dumb-ass is telling me I'd better be nice to their delusion! Oh me oh my.
A mean spirited Psycho......yes, yes he is.
I'm sorry. I'm a real idiot.
Now everyone knows.
lets tell God what he is supposed to believe. Why not? we've been doing it for thousands of years already, why change now!........
If by, "lets tell God what he is supposed to believe. Why not? we've been doing it for thousands of years already, why change now!........" you mean, man has been creating god for thousands of years and therefore dictating his actions and preferences, then yeah... I can see where you're coming from
well, i believe in God- but not necessarily the one that alot of people out there are describing...
Jesus was CLEARLY gay, so what's the problem? Jesus was WAY into washing other dudes feet - that really, REALLY gay. What parts jesus washed in private and off the record is open to the imagination. The cultural bias against women was the perfect cover for jesus to pursue his gay lifstyle because he was EXPECTED to hang out with guys; jesus preferred the company of men, no question there. God is gay, as well. He couldn"t impregnate Mary because he couldn't get himself to touch - eww! - a woman so he got her pregnant with his magic "wand". So both god and jesus, who are apparently the same person or some such nonsense, are both raging fudge – packers. Accept this fact and deal with it.
Could you be anymore patently offensive in your claim? This is disgusting, and there is no evidence to justify anything you've said. Thank you for personally attacking our faith. We have done nothing wrong, yet you people continue to persecute Jesus and Christians. What is your reasoning behind it? Does it make you feel good to bully others?
@Mark from Middle River, why is it "disgusting"? Are you calling gay, disgusting? Or are you saying that all false claims are disgusting? If so, might I point your attention to Gen where god magically defied the laws of physics and spoke a universe into existence in 6 days. He also, sped up the speed of light for us so we only think we're seeing 13 billion years into the past and also lied to use with his geological record and breaking down of radio isotopes.
"We have done nothing wrong" Tell that to the countless victims of christian genocide over the past 2000 years. How many people has christians killed in the name of god? Millions? Ten of millions?
@Mark – Christians are the bullies here. Take your fake victim card and shove it up your stupid ass.
@Mark from Middle River, not to mention the irony of a religious person demanding evidence. Surely you can see the humor in this.
"God magically defied physics..." Yes. He is God. God is capable of doing as He wishes. You cannot defy the laws of physics because unlike you, God created those laws.
@Mark from Middle River, So god made laws of physics but didn't abide by them. Magic! And he is just deceiving everyone who uses reasoning and logic into believing that the laws of physics have been obeyed since as far back as we can see? At what point does this overly complicated system start to sound a little bit like a children's fairytale to you I wonder. This begs the question though, if god did create the laws of physics, why make them so different than what he used during creation? After all, he's god... why does he need physics to keep the universe in order?
@Mark from Middle River, I also suppose from your perspective the entire fossil record is a big hoax... either played by elitist scientist or by god. This must all be some grand conspiracy!
Jesus was holy and pure, unlike you, and is God, so watch the blasphemy.
You cannot blaspheme against something that does not exist. Try again?
Crom, you cannot say something doesnt exist without total knowledge that it doesn't exist. Try again? SNAP!
You are disgusting! Jesus is not gay. Who do you think created physics? You sit there and bash christianity, and that's your right to do so, but how many gays are in the Muslim countries? Answer: NONE. That's because Muslims KILL gays. And Christians. And anyone else who doesn't toe the line with them. Yet you are going to bash Christians? And yes, I do think gays are disgusting. Got a problem with that?
excellent post ! your remarks gave me a break from reading the majority of the hate responses here ,disguised as christianity.
I am a gay man and a Christian and I find so many of these comments reprehensible. Even yours. I'm disgusted that you so freely mock God and Christ. I'm also appalled at the hate that other "Christians" spew from there hearts. It this really what God calls use to be? Does Christ teach such mean and ignorant things? I think not... I'm very ashamed of my Christians.
You're. Very. Sick man
What's funny is how people don't understand the bible. and continue to quote from it. He did say something about it. Just you have to have a brain to understand it. All these crazy explanations about it, and many other things. It's not for me to educate the world about it. I will only offer this, just re-read the bible, new testament, maybe someone will catch on.
Yes, only you and others like you with your magic decoder rings could possibly understand such a complex book at the bible.
Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” – Matthew 19:5-6
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” – Mark 10:6-9
it hurts my heart to see yet another spiteful wicked man proclaiming falsehood of jesus christ NOT SON OF GOD HOLY SPIRIT JESUS CHRIST IE CHRISTOS IE MITHRA IS FALSEHOOD FICTIONAL CHARACTER CREATED BY DARK AGES WICKED NEST OF VIPER PRIESTS!!! their goal to spread false wickeness of lies NOT WORD OF GOD HOLY SPIRIT book of lies shadow darkness new testament!! new testament falsehood lies worst than death wickedness designed to lead mankind down pebble lined volcano path to destruction by FALSEHOOD NEGATING TRUE WORD OF GOD HOLY SPIRIT OLD TESTAMENT!! christianity is only most decieved by this as jewish and islam even many oriental religions are understanding true nature of god holy spirit BUT NOT CHRISTIANS!!!
I got about three words into your second sentence when the screaming rant began. Images flashed through my head of what it must be like to live with you.
Thank GOD Jesus loves you. 'Cause I don't.
soapy is off his meds again
Ultimately ban gay marriage, pass a law based on Lev.20:13 instead.
Great idea. That would also be an effective population control measure.
Otherwise, must be banned and condemed.
We are living under the new covenant, not OT law -Jesus said the law can be summed up in only 2 laws: love your neighbor as yourself and love God with all your heart. Love those who are different from you and who believe differently than you.
IT IS A KNOWN FACT THAT 100% OF CHRISTIAN ADULTS HAVE AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER BANGED OR MOLESTED A BABY. THE BIBLE SAYS IT'S OK ACCORDING TO THEM.
Sure. It's also true then that the Bible tells you to love your CAPS LOCK button.
Either put up proof or retract the hateful lie towards Christians.
How in the world and why did someone publish this article? This guy is a devil in disguise. The Bible is vey clear,"one man and one woman". No more discussion. Its like Jane Fonda saying, 'I am sorry for killing Americans during Vietnam" Why would any idiot post this on the internet? STUPID
"The bible is very clear 'one mand and one woman' "
Actually the Bible promotes polygamy quite a bit.
Yes, but condemns sodomy to the fullest extent.
Just to be fair, any se xual act not done for the purpose of procreation is considered sodomy. If you are 'firing blanks' as it were, then, according to the bible, you should not partake of any kind of se xual act no matter what.
The bible also didn't seem to mind if that woman was your daughter if she were ra.ped by the village to protect angels.
Lot was a coward an an$$h0le but yet the most honorable man in Sodom.
Actually for a good portion of the Bible polygamy was ok with God.
None of you people believe in God or the Bible. You are just political shills trying to look liberal and FIT IN. You have no tenets of faith. Frogs in lukewarm water in a pot on a very hot stove.
Horse hockey. The Bible is clear on this. You, Mr. Osler, are fuzzy and look like you need a story pretty badly.
If you claim to be a "Christian" then I think you should look hard in the mirror and ask yourself..."what did Jesus say about this?" The FACT is that he said nothing that reported in the Bible. He didn't directly address the question. However, he DID say a number of other things. He said "love one another." He said it was inappropriate to judge...that's not your job. He helped those whom others ignored or ostracized. He openly challenged the Jewish traditions, which leave the door open to the idea that he might well challenge that one little statement in Lev too.
In short, all these self-proclaimed Christians are doing a really poor job of emulating the son of their God. Jesus accepted everyone, and left it to God to judge. It's about time the Christians did the same thing.
The author of the article is blasphemous. He clearly indicates that he is not a true Christian. The Bible states that hom ose(x)uality is a sin. The truth of the matter is that the gays should not be allowed to vote. We are still a Christian nation, are we not? Their kind need to be banned from marrying each other due to the immorality it stands for and generates. Gays are known devi ants, just as atheists are known deviants. It absolutely disgusts me that Americans are bowing their heads and knee to these liberal ho mose(x)uals. It is patently offensive that the majority of us have to sit by and watch our freedoms and everything we've worked hard to build be destroyed by these dev iant liberals with zero moral standards. We have to do something. We have to write to our politicians and let them know that we do not want this kind of trash in our country. I do not condone violence, but I do believe we should do what we do with illegals and deport these people elsewhere. They do not belong here. We are a majority, and they are the minority. They should most definitely not be allowed to vote because they do not represent American values. Please write your politicians and let them know your disgust for this filth and garbage. If your politicians don't listen, then you need to vote for one that does!
We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. The USA is a place that is free from any kind of religious classification and official religious sponsorship, primarily because the founding fathers didn't want the church to have control on par with that of the church in England. Power that let it control the population more so than the government did.
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion go hand in hand in the USA.
Christians are on equal standing with Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sihks, Taoists, Odinist, and every other religion. You are free to practice your belief however you wish, so long as it does not interfere with the rights and welfare of others.
You are a true psychotic. In truth, we are not a Christian nation and this country was not founded on Christian teachings since "Christian teachings" are just recycled fairytales older than Christ himself. Get a clue and wake up to reality. Gays shouldnt vote...wow. This is what you get in America people. Disgusting human being
Hey Mark, your a dumb@ass. Way to come across as ignorant. People like you shouldn't be allowed to breath. You and the rest of your jesus loving hateful species. You people are preach love but then you go and spew hate. What a waste of space you are.
You are obviously a very old man living in the past. Just which generation are you from anyway? You must have been old when Kennedy was assassinated. Sorry for you the human race has moved on and you have been left behind with all the other bigots.
Yes, we are a Christian nation and have been since its inception. Our founders were Christian. They valued morality, something atheist garbage will never understand. Something atheist garbage denies daily. Yes, we are in FACT a Christian nation whether you want to admit to the truth or not. We are a MAJORITY. I dare you to look up the percentage of Christians versus the rest of the population. When you're done, please by all means come back and tell me that we aren't a Christian nation without looking foolish in the process. I'll wait here for your response.
I am fairly well-balanced, thank you. I'm willing to stand up for my rights. Are you? Probably not. Just a bunch of laptop jockeys pretending to care for a cause but I bet you aren't willing to speak to your politicians. You know that deep down, being gay is wrong. It is a SIN. But you're just laying down and taking it because you're afraid to stand up for anything. This is your own fault. YOU are to blame. You then get angry at people like me that speak the truth because of what you have denied yourself out of fear. I am nothing more than a reminder of what it is you detest but are too afraid to stand against. This is basic psychology. Your hatred of me is merely an outward projection of the jealousy you have for me because unlike you, I am not afraid, and I will stand for what is right. You are all cowards for not standing up and telling your political leaders that you don't want gay pride parades in front of your children. Children do not need to see men holding hands, kissing or groping each other in public. It is the worst possible thing for children to see. It confuses them and they will tell you they think it is gross. They aren't taught this, they are born knowing that it is unnatural.
Gays do not belong on this soil. We need to vote the current "leader" out of office for repealing don't ask don't tell and allowing their kind in our military. The last thing we need are problems in the barracks causing dissention in the ranks.
Deport them with illegals, period. The men and women of our Armed Forces have fought and died for this country and to repay them with allowing gays to destroy the moral fiber of everything they've sacrificed is wrong. It is a sin, and it can't be ignored.
You obviously have no idea what it means to be an American. Our system was set up to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. You are about as American as a bowl of borscht in the middle of Red Square.
And where did you get the idea that we are a Christian nation? Let's ask the founding father's:
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.” —Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
“The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine.”— George Washington
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or
is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with the most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts to his divinity." -Ben Franklin
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity." John Adams
Travolta framed as SCAPEGOAT by mormon temple again in collusion with the vatican! Scientology centers are all safehouses for gay men and are the target of LDS oppression. Please READ and wake up!
??????? Read Dianetics.
What is Dinetics?
The professor has an interesting take on this subject, but it will be a long time before the lynch mobs will come around to this type of thinking. It simply comes down to prejudice and hate.
I think this is a very loving and tolerant take on the matter. I'm not sure I can agree with redefining marriage, politically-speaking, though. I do have compassion for the glbt community, however, but don't support gay marriage; I think civil unions should have been just fine. When you open the marriage door to alternative unions, you can't shut it on those who come next.... the polygamous, the incestuous, man and boy unions, and even man and animal or object. When does it stop?
Marriage, as well as being a Sacrament in some Churches, and reserved there for persons qualified to be married (never divorced, both members, etc.), is a civil contract between two people, and thus the "slippery slope" argument does not hold water. In contract law, there must be 2 consenting parties to the contract of marriage, so pedophiles could never marry children incapable of consenting. Other fears like people marrying animals, the Eiffel Tower, and so on are not possible for the same reason. Far more extensive change to marriage laws would be necessary to allow polygamy–in no other country where equal marriage for gay people exists has this come up. We have had equal marriage for all couples who love each other in Canada for a decade, and it has not harmed my 30 year marriage at all, or made marriage any less important and valuable. I'm another Christian who believes nothing in the Bible forbids loving gay or lesbian relationships.
Why are they trying to be accepted by the Church? Why do they care? Answer: to change the Hebrew words in the Hebrew laws of the Bible
@toadears-how many times does this need to be said before people understand it? This has nothing to do with marriage in a church!! Churches will be free to NOT marry anyone they wish, as they already do. I know of several straight couples who were not allowed to marry in a certain church for whatever reason that church decides, that will not change. This is about CIVIL marriage, that has to do with benefits granted to married couples by the government. I'll say it one more time incase you still don't understand, THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH, THEY WILL NOT BE "FORCED" TO MARRY ANYONE THEY DON"T WANT TO.
People need to stick with their faith's teachings. The Bible (and the Torah and Koran, for that matter) are all pretty straight forward in the way they are against ho mo se xuality. This makes sense when you consider that the earlier tribes of those religions needed to worry about getting a population built up to advance their cause and teachings. Someone behaving outside the role that was the best for increasing the populace was considered sinful and were given the oppurtunity to 'change their ways' or outright destoyed to serve as an example to others who would not follow the rules to increase the number of followers. In a social setting where your livilihood would depend on the number of people you have, this kind of tactic actually did a good (although barbaric) job of ensuring the propegation of the species.
If you look at other religions that are formed in areas where population was not a big concern at all, you will find them with no negative view on hom o se xuality at all.
Except for one thing: If their organs function, they can have babies. Orientation doesn't mean you can't have children you idiot.
Yes, because desert nomads in the beginning of the AD time frame were completely prepared to perform the proper medical procedures to ensure that followers of their faith who were not se xual attracted to the opposite gender were able to still proved the genetic material required and mix them together as such.
C'mon, Crom. Use some logic here.
If you want your people to reproduce to bolster your populace, make being ga y a sin and punishable by death.
If you want people to stop eating pork and shellfish because you don't know how to properly cook it without causing disease and death to your people, make eating it a sin punishable by death.
If you want to keep people focused on your religion as a unifying set of moral and practical codes to live by, make attendence to religious services and taking the day off work to attend mandatory or else it is a sin punishable by death.
There are often a lot of simple reasons rules existed in the older works if you look at them with logic and consider the populace and area they were enacted at the time.
@Flamespeak – By way of rubbing your face in it and dragging your face along the concrete sidewalk until your face is gone, let me just point out how many "gays" are married with kids as their way of being "in the closet".
They have children....and....they are "gay".
Being bi as protective cover is only slightly more difficult than being bi to begin with.
Your argument still fails.
When being caught means death, how hard would it be for a simple tribesman to pretend to be straight?
Not hard at all if you have a knife at your throat and need to "fit in". Republicans do it all the time.
You think it's just one orientation or the other, but having babies is a physiological function of our bodies. Orientation doesn't stop you from producing children at all. Idiot.
You CAN still reproduce by having relations with memebers of the opposite gender, that is obvious, what you are missing out on is that to ensure that people didn't prefer same gender relationships over the opposite gender relationships, it was made a sin punishable by death to avoid any kind possible population reduction from members of the church.
I never stated that you couldn't reproduce if you were g ay, I am saying it was treated as a sin to be g ay in old times to avoid any possible problem with the ability to reproduce.
@Flamespeak – Do you have any proof of what their intentions were? No.
Do you know why they made those rules? No.
How do you know it was anything else besides simple ho.mophobia?
As to eating shellfish, how do you know they didn't just throw up their hands and say shellfish were cursed?
What makes you think they knew anything about why some of them got sick?
They didn't make rules about cooking food thoroughly, didn't make rules about avoiding people with cold sores, and didn't make rules about sperm, either. Why didn't they do these things? Because they were and are batsh.t crazy.
But, no, Flamespeak knows what they were thinking.
Flamespeak will tell us why those laws were written by those people without even knowing who they were.
You seem to have a hangup over orientation that is giving you some sort of bias here.
You keep telling yourself how you know their innermost thoughts even though they lived thousands of years ago.
That makes your arguments soooooo convincing. Not.
Pretending you know what they meant to do and what they were thinking and what their motivations were is just so much bs.
Using deductive logic and taking into accounts of the local area, society, populous, and gerneral scientific knowledge at the time, it is possible to make an educated guess at the reasoning behind people's decisions. I could be way off, you are correct, but it is what makes the most sense to me given the information I have read on the subject matter.
I really don't see why you would think I am hung up on orientation though, as I personally don't care if someone is a hom o se xual or not. Let them get married for all I care. It doesn't effect me in any negative way as I far as I can tell. I just don't like it when people cherry pick their religious sources or, in the case of this article, outright go against what their religious texts teach to try and appear more politically correct.
Instead of trying to act like the Bible treats hom o se xuality kindly, acknowledge its highly negative view of it and apply your logic to the book and its authors to try and see why it has that view expressed in it.
If you are going to say the Bible says what is right and wrong, then you cannot ignore the facts in the Bible of which say how you can own slaves and how you can treat them of which we ALL are absolutely morally opposed to (even Christians). You are making claims about people cherry-picking from the Bible to make arguments. Well, if there are HUGE moral issues in the bible that we do not agree with as a society in general, you have cherry-picked something to ignore. You cannot use the Bible as a source of moral reasoning if parts of it you choose to be morally wrong and others you think are dead on. The Bible's moral applications through Christianity are nothing but blatant contradictions. The Bible is responsible for HORRIBLE atrocities historically and using it as a basis for morality is patently wrong.
Make all the guesses you want. Just don't tell me you "know" anything when you are actually only "guessing" and I won't have much of a problem with you telling us your semi-educated and semi-logical opinion as long as you make it clear that that is what it is.
You as.sume so many things that your "logic" has nothing to stand on. It doesn't even matter what was in their psychotic heads when they wrote a bunch of crap. It's all crap.
Trying to worry about why someone wrote crap is like wondering when a liar is going to say something true. Don't bother.
I agree the Bible has many things I do not agree with, it is one of the reasons I am not a Christian. Society does cherry pick ideas from holy texts all the time, a thing I am against entirely.
I never stated any of what posted was a total fact. Although I suppose I should have clarified it was just educated guesswork.
Anyone who does baptisms in a filthy creek is just asking for medical problems.
Has the water been tested? Is it clean enough to drink safely?
If not, you might consider building a baptismal that uses clean, non-polluted water.
Consider the Ganges River, that river of pure sewage. It is considered "holy" by some, yet they die from swallowing the sewage and from contaminating their whole bodies with it.
They value fine cloth there, because you can filter out the larger bits of sewage out of the water with it.
Just as you seek to invite everyone into your religion, you fail to see the essential fraud that is at the heart of it, like sewage in your coffee. You think it helps people to be a member of your religion, but you are just saddling them with a monstrous fraud that weighs them down with fraudulent nonsense nobody understands and that everyone interprets individually no matter what you say or what your religion is called.
People swim in dirty creeks, lakes, rivers all the time. You don't drink water when you're baptized. Crom, I wonder why you care so much about this topic/article when you don't believe in God/religion? I don't think you're being honest with everyone here and you're not being honest with yourself.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.