home
RSS
My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Queen

    Ooooooo...this blog is scarey. Still throwing rocks little ones. At the end of a looonnnggg day blogging the facts remain the same. God is God and HE does not change and we the people -are stubborn, arrogant creatures that He loves

    June 4, 2012 at 12:55 am |
    • Yellowfeather

      Yes that about sums it up. Just seems that these two or twenty sides will never make sense to each other.....

      June 4, 2012 at 12:59 am |
    • ben

      Exactly...HE loves us for who HE created us to be, HIS original purpose and intent for humanity. Not for what we think we are or were born with or our genes carry. We as a species have more issues than a magazine subscription, but there's still hope of a joyous life if we're just honest with ourselves, get past the back-and-forth banter about who's right and wrong in fleshly terms, take responsibility, accept Truth into our hearts and love each other as our own (not with Eros or philo, but agape love).

      June 4, 2012 at 2:01 am |
    • YeahRight

      "God is God and HE does not change and we the people -are stubborn, arrogant creatures that He loves"

      That's why the interpretations over time have changed which allowed for African Americans and women to gain their civil rights, now it's the gay turn to get their civil rights. Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful loving relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 4, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • TC

      Yes, Dear, and His love for those he chose to create as gay continues. Why, He even sends us soul-mates to mary, and blesses our families.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • socks

      OOhhh TC – that sounds so cozy....kind of like a gay version of The Waltons or The Brady Bunch. But sorry it just isn't so. The stats on gays staying together is WAY less than straights.....and from my career in childcare – I can vouch for the high dysfunction that goes on in these relationships

      June 4, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • TC

      Yes, Socks. Yes it can. I personally know a many gay coupleswho are happily married, many with wonderful kids, Blessed lives.

      Do not pretend to speak in God's place – it's unbecoming.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "The stats on gays staying together is WAY less than straights.....and from my career in childcare – I can vouch for the high dysfunction that goes on in these relationships"

      Stereotype much. LMAO! Gays have only been allowed to marry in 5 states. So I bet there isn't much statistics out there on their long term relationships yet. All the gays and lesibans I know their relationships have lasted ranging from 18 years to 25 and are not dysfunctional. The experts disagree with you social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Hotpepper

      You've got to be kidding? Only five states allow gay marriage – so we have no stats on gay dysfunction in relationships???Honey gays have been living together for a long time....the stats are in....the gay community only makes up about 3% of the population. Of that 3% how many are in long lasting relationships...? Exactly

      June 4, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, Hot Po0per, why don't you answer the question? How many are? Produce statistics. Where are they?

      June 4, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Only five states allow gay marriage – so we have no stats on gay dysfunction in relationships???Honey gays have been living together for a long time....the stats are in....the gay community only makes up about 3% of the population. Of that 3% how many are in long lasting relationships...? Exactly"

      Cite your source, but we all know you won't have a clue. LOL!

      June 5, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
  2. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    I wonder how morons like "Wisdom" hold down jobs that earn them enough dough to pay for a computer and a pot to pizz in.

    Gays are already having children; they aren't sterile. They can become pregnant through IVF just as many straight people do. Furthermore, procreation, last time I checked, wasn't required for any couple in order to be married. Do you morons really imagine that gay people will somehow "multiply" in number and thus reduce earth's population? If that were probable and it meant we'd have fewer imbeciles like you, I'd be all for it. That ain't how it works. Where do you think all these gay men and women came from, dullards? They were born to straight couples!

    God, how did you people manage to get your shoes tied? Did you mommies have to do it for you?

    Dumber than dirt and less attractive and useful, every one of you.

    June 4, 2012 at 12:06 am |
    • pepper

      Wow – thankyou Tom Tom for explaining to us that is was the straights who gave birth to the gays....exciting data. But your further thoughts that, other than the gays – the rest of us are "morons and dumber than dirt".......causes us to only think of you in a white stretchy coat with men wheeling you away, who also wear white coats

      June 4, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • ben

      Really? Every one of "us". Starting to add a little bit of a "race-ey" tone in there...I personally have no problem with anyone buttering their own bread however they want. Wanna be gay? I'm not hear to stop you. Wanna marry that man, man? Not in my church, but if you find someone to do it for you, who am I to judge? Want to not aknowledge God? He wants you to choose too, one way or another. But when its all said and done, each of us gets the chance to know if we are right or wrong.

      I invite you and everyone else to look up "pascal's wager"

      June 4, 2012 at 12:35 am |
    • Caveman

      Wow – the Piper's Son needs a bucket of cold water in the face. Spent to many hours blogging – now its the "WHOLE WORLD" that is dumb as dirt???!!! Time to take your hat off – it is squeezing your brain

      June 4, 2012 at 12:50 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      My brain isn't being "squeezed", you ninny. I'm plain disgusted by the likes of Wisdom and his ilk. Don't like being lumped together with them? Then grow up and figure out that you don't own the term "marriage", that no one is attempting to "force" churches to marry ANYONE, and that most of you will still be around when gay marriage is legal everywhere in the country.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And really, pepper, take a reading comprehension course. I've heard Sylvan is good. Try it. Maybe you can come back and figure out what I wrote.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Hotpepper

      Tommy...maybe your brain is not squeezed....maybe thats just the way it is – one sided, mean, biased, bigoted, unfair and kind of Homer Simpsonish with a little heavy metal on the side :):)

      June 4, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom Tom you are my bestest, most favorite athiest....you are the classic stereo type to speak for your kind...I commend you for taking your mosquito thoughts and putting them out in public...buzz on!!

      June 4, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom Tom you are my bestest, most favorite athiest....you are the classic stereo type to speak for your kind...I commend you for taking your garbling, rambling, thoughts on the road.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Sorry Tom Tom, cnn was only supposed to print one of these...just read the second one my heart was in it.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Sorry , cnn was only supposed to print one of these...just read the second one my heart was in it.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It seems unwise to form a generalization of a larger population from a single person. Not only a single person but an internet personality on a blog as well. Quite unwise.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • IsaiahRocks

      CNN you are sending duplicate messages, problems in the control room?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I love watching you idiots post. You prove my point with every burp. You think that gays shouldn't 'marry' except in civil ceremonies, because you're so stupid you think they can do so now. You're so ignorant you don't know the difference between civil unions and civil marriages and think that both convey equivalent rights. You imagine that gays can't have children because you are ignorant of biology and seem to be under the misapprehension that procreation is required for legal marriage.

      And you wonder why you are laughed at by anyone with a brain.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hot Po0per, sock puppets don't have any clout. Get a new hand up your bvtt; your master isn't doing a very good job of disguising your real ident ity.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • SweetGenius

      No one has said that those that are gay cannot biologically have children, of course not with eachother. The statements on this blog from what I have read are saying that there is an agenda that goes beyond the marriage issue. This issue is easily solved, but they want to make a point not just get married.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sweet Dumbazz, did you READ what Wizdumb wrote? Go ahead and do so, and then get back to me. Read slowly. Move your lips if you have to. And then take a look at pepper's spew.

      The idiots think that procreation is required for marriage of any kind. They think gays don't have children. Are you that stupid, too? Gays have kids the same way many couples do: they adopt, they undergo IVF, they use artificial insemination. So what? Is that some sort of litmus test? Is a childless marriage any less a marriage than one that produces progeny? Says who? Since when?

      June 4, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And what "POINT" do you think (and I use the word loosely in your case) gays "want to make"? That they are not now allowed to marry? That they are not permitted to have the same benefits as a married couple? Do you dispute this? If so, cite your evidence. While you're at it, look up 'civil union' and 'civil marriage' and figure out that the two are NOT synonymous. There are many states in which gays cannot be married civilly and in states in which civil unions are permitted, not all guarantee the same benefits to those who are civilly united as they do to couple that are married. THAT is the point gays are making.

      June 4, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
  3. ben

    Hate and intolerance are on both sides of this blog comment. Absolute amazing to see such vitriolic language being used to try to prove some point that is, when it comes down to it, a personal belief, either Christian, atheist, buddist, etc etc, allowable under the bill of rights (which was written by Christians, by the way). I wish there was more intelligible opinions that represent individual points of view more accurately, not so much nasty, disgusting evilness on the part of the pro gay or secular side. The writers of this funk are not representing themselves or their view very well at all, certainly not convincing anyone of anything.
    Scientifically speaking, we only know about approximately 4% of the universe. Of that 4 percent we learn new things everyday. Any quantum physicist worth his diploma will tell you that QM theory will allow for a soul to survive past material death. (check particle/wave theory). The same theorists will tell you there's no empirical evidence for sentience either. Each of us as individuals may know we think, but can't EMPIRICALLY PROVE thought in others. Is that proof no one else exists? Or does it prove science has a long way to go before it knows it all? Science does not have all the answers yet, so don't discount any options just because of "science". Which of you mud slingers out there know what the "Higgs field" or the "Higgs boson" is? Does it not exist because we can't find it? What about black holes or "dark matter"?

    Those who have ears to hear, let them hear
    Those that have eyes to see, let them see

    June 3, 2012 at 11:55 pm |
    • TC

      If you are looking for thoughtful responses, you aren't likely to get them because very few people ask thoughtful. I am often told by people who claim to be Christian that my family does and cannot not exist. That NO gay folks are capable of the love and commitment we are raised to value. That or children would be better off not existing at all. That we cannot really be feeling the love for God that we feel

      It's rather tiring. So many people claim to know more about me than I know about me.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • Hotpepper

      TC – Can someone who is gay feel a love for God....certainly. Can someone who is gay love someone else in a committed relationship...certainly. No one is arguing either point. But your point about people telling you how you feel – is shared by all christians – Read all of these CNN blogs and tell me if you see mean, bigoted gay people saying that christians should be dead....cause its there. The Bullying goes both ways....unless CNN is doing a gay show – then we only see the gay persons side.....the shows Anderson Cooper does are all the gay community. I am sick of the one sided story.....then they find some hillbilly christian from the Ozarks and put them on the headlines....I have gay people all around me and some family friends as well.....I have never seen anyone who is a christian treat a gay person with unkindness....though we know it happens. Biblically we can never agree with this lifestyle. Even Billy Graham who has NEVER in his life....made a political statement....came forward in north carolina to speak up against gay marriage....that was his line in the sand

      June 4, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It is no more a "lifestyle" than is heteros3xual marriage. People who insist on pretending that it's a choice and a sin are simply ignorant. You have no clue what you're babbling about and your approval of gay marriage is irrelevant. The fact is that denying adults in a loving, consensual relationship the very same rights and privileges you enjoy is wrong.

      Your idea of 'sin' is absurd.

      June 4, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
  4. Ghethogin Ghetto Theologian

    Gay is not the issue – the issue is Holy Matrimony (Marriage) and changing the definition.

    Civil unions offer all the rights given by the government given to Marriage, yet there is not push for Civil Unions. The push is to change Holy Matrimony (Marriage) – the word Holy basically means:”Set aside for the of work God” – Marriage is a tool God uses to full fill a purpose on earth and bless us with – we want to use it for another purpose. Civil unions should be used for those Gay or Straight people that want to define the purpose of their union.
    The way we think and God thinks is different “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. (Isaiah 55:8, KJV)”

    June 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • JWT

      Then you keep holy m,atirmony and the rest of the world will use marriiage just like they already do and always have.

      June 3, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Look, doofus, you don't own the definition of "marriage". It wasn't "holy" when it first occurred, and your Jeebus doesn't have a copyright on it now.

      June 3, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Lord Ramsley

      Very good Ghetto....but what does one do, when tons of the gay community want to marry in a christian church? CNN and 60 minutes both did stories on this...This is where they are insulting our faith and crossing the line to any form of acceptance. They deny this on this blog, but it is true and to me it ruins any credibility

      June 4, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • pretzel

      Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life....and all who follow Him shall have eternal life. That means really follow Him – not pretend

      June 4, 2012 at 1:02 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Marriage is a tool God uses to full fill a purpose on earth and bless us with – we want to use it for another purpose. Civil unions should be used for those Gay or Straight people that want to define the purpose of their union."

      They tried keeping African Americans separate but equal too and we all know that did NOT mean equality nor did it work. The US Supreme Court ruled marriage is a civil right, therefore gays deserve that same civil right!

      June 4, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • Hotpepper

      Yeahright....sounds good, but why do gays keep wanting to marry in christian churches and they do – so don't waste our time denying. It is retarded

      June 4, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Yeahright....sounds good, but why do gays keep wanting to marry in christian churches and they do – so don't waste our time denying."

      There are gay churches. Duh! They might want to marry in a church for the same reasons that straights do because they're Christians. DUH! When a gay couple gets married before your god they do not sin and NONE of the scriptures Christians try to condemn them will apply to gays as we know and understand it TODAY. Duh!

      June 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • SweetGenius

      They want to marry in christian churches because their endless bitterness with God for saying what they are doing is wrong. Every gay person I have spoken with has this contempt for God and christians, just because of what the bible says. This issue is not just about marriage or they would go the civil ceremony route.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      All the gays you know? You think that's a statistically significant number, SweetCheeks? How many do you know?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Actually, it's more along the lines that civil unions (which they have) and marriage carry different rights. Some of the rights that married couples take for granted (like being allowed to see your spouse in the emergency room) are not allowed under civil union laws. Is it so hard for you to put aside your persecution complex and think that maybe the LGBT community just want the same rights that hetero couples enjoy?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Actually, it's more along the lines that civil unions (which they have) and marriage carry different rights. Some of the rights that married couples take for granted (like being allowed to see your spouse in the emergency room) are not allowed under civil union laws. Is it so hard for you to put aside your persecution complex and think that maybe the LGBT community just want the same rights that others have?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Stupid double post.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
  5. Evangelical

    Ho-mos-exual marriage is performed in a grand total of 10 countries out of the whole world. To hear the ho-mos-exuals talk, one would think that the US is living in the last century, but in fact we are among the vast majority of the nations of the world. This is yet another lie ho-mos-exuals tell.

    June 3, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • YeahRight

      No Moron, we are talking about what the experts are saying about gays. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 4, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  6. BrownSugarmama

    Christian or heathen. Gay or straight,IT WILL NEVER BE NORMAL OR O KAY. Because God is a good God He allows you to screw up your life anyway you want to so be very very quite and do your dirt in the house with the shades pulled down in a dark dark room. NO ONE CARES-GET IT?

    June 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • Wisdom

      You are not making sense...what are you saying exactly?

      June 3, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • JWT

      It will never be ok for you is what you mean – and you are right – no one cares.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
  7. King David 13

    the Bible very clearly states the difference on how a man and a woman should live. It also takes a position on gays. St. Paul's writings will show the way.

    Hence gays engaging in non-procreative activities for pleasure.....will find that at the end they will cancel each other out. Just like 2 positive polarities canceling out the other...

    June 3, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
    • BrownSugarmama

      alright now King David 13 break it on down to them!

      June 3, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Wisdom

      There is some logic for us all, how did we all get here?? Oh ya a man and a woman...right!!!

      June 3, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You do know that gays aren't sterile, don't you?

      Oh, wait. I forgot I was talking to a plant.

      June 3, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom hasn't finished kindergarden.....a man and a man cannot produce a child...the same for a woman and a woman. Tom do you need pictures to understand this??? Can a gay man sleep with a gay woman and produce a child....yes of course because there was an original design for creating life....a aman and a woman.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom hasn't finished kindergarden.....a man and a man cannot produce a child...the same for a woman and a woman. Tom do you need pictures to understand this??? Can a gay man sleep with a gay woman and produce a child....yes of course because there was an original design for creating life....a man and a woman.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom hasn't finished kindergarden.....a man and a man cannot produce a child...the same for a woman and a woman. Tom do you need pictures to understand this???

      June 3, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Wisdom

      Tom....your mosquito brain techniques are not working on this blog, everyone is too smart for you...sorry.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • Lovely

      Is there anyway to have Tom removed from this blog....it's unintelligence is assaulting all of us.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You poor little thing. Is it painful to have it pointed out to you that there are many men and women who marry each other and are unable to produce biological children together, yet have options to achieve their dreams of having children anyway?

      You are Christians? By what measure? By what standard? Not the kind of Christian I'd ever want to be or know. You're nothing but sour old creeps who think you can prevent others from having what you enjoy by pretending it is what your beliefs tell you.

      You're idiots.

      And furthermore, to the last dolt who posted, get a clue and figure out how apostrophes work, you moron. You can then proceed to pretend you actually have any intelligence to "assault". What a fvckwit you are.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I have to say it's pretty damn funny to watch Wisdom attempt to write a post and then screw it up three times. Poor baby. Must be sad to be that dumb.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:08 am |
    • YeahRight

      "It also takes a position on gays. St. Paul's writings will show the way."

      What he was condemning was using sex to worship a pagan god, are you also going to adopt his anit-semtic views too? LMAO! Paul had no idea what sexual orientation means as we know and understand it today. The experts have proven that what was written in the past about gays were done by bias and prejudice people, that includes the writers of the bible. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:22 am |
  8. Jesus

    Obviously this guy is a quack and a complete religious moron, you might as well just quote David Koresh and Jim Jones because these two both had more moral and religious authority than this brainless nimrod!

    June 3, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • BrownSugarmama

      Watch your mouth hey-soos, God hears you.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
  9. ARG

    It is my understanding that the Bible depicts clearly how marriages should be and i never remembered anything about it condoning gay relationships or even gay marriages.... It is my opinion that gay relationships are totally wrong. Mankind is disobeying God's laws and making their own to suit them...

    June 3, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Jeff

      You are presuming that everything that is allowed is in the Bible. The Pharisees and Sadducees made the same mistake.

      June 3, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • JWT

      The sin sin the bible do nto apoply to all people – and being gay is not a sin, marriage is not the preoperty of the christians.

      June 3, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • Ash

      JWT,

      Seriously? You need to get your facts straight before committing diarrhea of the mouth on comment threads...

      June 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • JWT

      Sorry Ash everything I said is true. News to you but you have learned something today.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Every person is subject to the Bible whether they know it or not.

      June 3, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      More pronouncements from Eva. Yawn. No one is required to follow the Bible at all.

      June 3, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • JWT

      Well evangelical yet a point where you are wrong. Your god is not my god and by insistng that it is you are trying to deny my religious rightx. Which makes yyou and your god full of st!t.

      June 3, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • YeahRight

      ". It is my opinion that gay relationships are totally wrong"

      The experts around the world disagree with you. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 4, 2012 at 11:24 am |
  10. Bob

    If you make your living from the world then you will compromise with your views and never know God and how much He loves us and what He is willing to do for those that do love Him. If you look to God for your provision then we can stand true and strong in conviction and word knowing that He is our provision. This is what the author has done compromised with world and it will not change the word of God. The name calling and belittling does make the true followers more resolute in conviction knowing what the Bible says is being confirmed everyday. That the word of God is true and in the end times the world will lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, unholy, ungrateful malicious gossips, lover of pleasure rather than lovers of God is coming to pass.

    June 3, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • JWT

      od is your thing. Don;t presume to assume it is for everyone.

      June 3, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Wisdom

      They should come up with their own meaning of their union to save all the hassles, arguing. And of course to be original and who they are. It's like traditional marriage is the original owner of a certain 1000 acres of land, and the gay community are squatters on the land now insisting it is theirs as well. IT IS NOT and it won't ever be.... gay community take your resourses and buy your own land and call it whatever you like!!!! Only a man and a woman can create life, marriage has been that piece of land with that meaning for waayyyyyyy too long to change it now without huge, huge hassles!!!!

      June 3, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "If you make your living from the world then you will compromise with your views and never know God and how much He loves us and what He is willing to do for those that do love Him."

      Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving long term relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. That's the point!

      June 4, 2012 at 11:26 am |
  11. Wisdom

    Come on...marriage has been between a man and a woman for thousands of years, this shouldn't be happening. The gay folk should come up with their own thing name of union, not fight for the traditional meaning.

    June 3, 2012 at 3:09 am |
    • Star Spangled

      Well said....there has to be many other creative ways to deal with this mess

      June 3, 2012 at 3:13 am |
    • Wisdom

      Of course there are many ways to deal with it, easier ways, peaceful ways, but that is not what is is about is it? One wrong step will lead to other wrong steps, the gay agenda is not a peaceful one.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:21 am |
    • JWT

      legally it is all the same thing – use the same word – there is no seperate but equal.

      June 3, 2012 at 9:01 am |
    • Jeff

      Traditionally, for hundreds - perhaps thousands - of years, blacks and whites could not marry. Tradition isn't everything.

      June 3, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Ash

      JWT,

      Actually, gays have the exact same rights as straights. Gay men can marry any woman of their choosing, and gay women can marry any man of their choosing. That's equal rights, right there.

      June 3, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • BrownSugarmama

      That is excatly right!!!

      June 3, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • JWT

      You mean separate but equal – which is total BS. Until gay marriage has the exact same rights as straight marriage they are not equal.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why should they come up with another name for the same arrangement? Just because you don't like it? Boo hoo. Go cry to your mommy.

      June 3, 2012 at 4:44 pm |
    • Know What

      The churches can call it "Holy Matrimony", like they do now... and do all the sanctification, consecration, and magical incantations that they want.

      June 3, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "The gay folk should come up with their own thing name of union, not fight for the traditional meaning."

      They tried to make it so African Americans were separate but equal too and it didn't work they were not equal! The U S Supreme court ruled in biracial marriage that marriage is a civil right, gays deserve that same right. The experts have stated that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience

      June 4, 2012 at 11:29 am |
  12. R

    To those reading the conversation: This is what spiritual warfare looks like

    June 3, 2012 at 2:33 am |
    • Jeff

      No, it is not. How can you correct other people when you don't even know the Word of God?

      June 3, 2012 at 11:13 am |
  13. R

    Yes, Tom the filter has been programmed not to allow certain words that would discredit the author.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:18 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Uh-huh. And soy lent green is people, too.

      You're beyond stupid, R.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:19 am |
  14. R

    To the contrary, that which is evil does not want me to post.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:16 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's de debbil !!!

      June 3, 2012 at 2:17 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, it's the devil. He's in your computer. Better shut it off right now.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:18 am |
  15. R

    CNN, you are not allowing quotes from the Bible to go through. There are persons reading these posts who need to read them, as it will help them.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:14 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Stupid azz, there isn't any moderator reading your inane drivel. There is a filter that picks up letter and word combinations and will not permit them to appear.

      Get a clue.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:16 am |
  16. R

    Tom, the demons within you are becoming very agitated at quotes from God's word. Pay attention and get spiritual help. It is not you who is agitated but that which is within. The devil has come to destroy and he has legions of demons at his command. But they are fallen angels, just as we are all fallen human beings and they are subject to God. Remember, God is love and if you will confess and renounce each and every sin and humble yourself before God, you will be forgiven. You may need deliverance if you are unable to stop. May God help you and Bless You. Amen

    June 3, 2012 at 2:10 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Booga, booga, booga.

      You are an idiot.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:11 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, and R? I'm married, female, and straight.

      I don't believe in your mumbo-jumbo about a loving god who demands worship and will cast his own creation into the lake of fire for not believing in a merciful being who allows babies to die of cancer and starvation and hates people who love others of the same gender.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:14 am |
    • Wisdom

      Bob Dylan sang it...your gonna serve someone. Tom you don't know what your really saying, but I pray the truth sets you free. Seek the Lord while He can be found.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:18 am |
    • JWT

      But you must remember that not all people believe in your god or in your particular god, nor do they need or want to.

      June 3, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, Wisdom, lemme know when you figure out the 'your'/'you're' conundrum. Like most fundies, you don't seem to quite grasp the rule. Hence, your ability to interpret the Bible or tell me about anything is suspect.

      June 3, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
  17. R

    Well stated Bob's Friend.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:04 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, how impressive.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:07 am |
  18. Bobs Friend

    I think this author takes the bibles warning about judging others and simply abuses it to the point that he is unwilling to discuss sin at all: Jesus preached "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" He treated various sinners differently. We should do the same. I takes skill, bible knowledge and a little divine inspiration to properly address any sinner.

    Mercy is the first order of business, but mercy without addressing sins is evil. We are to figure out what it takes to lead people into a right relationship with God. Not just coming to church and taking communion, but pursuing righteousness and Love of God and your fellow man.
    Lying to people about the nature of their destructive lifestyle is evil.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:01 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then you should stop doing it, nitwit.

      Being gay isn't a lifestyle.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:04 am |
    • Wisdom

      Amen...you've got it. Tom has rabis I think, Jesus please heal Tom.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:12 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Lying to people about the nature of their destructive lifestyle is evil."

      The hundreds of thousands of experts around the world disagree with you. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      What is destructive is the continued lies the Christians community continues to make about this minority group fueling the unfounded hatred and bigotry. Duh!

      June 4, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  19. R

    God's word is law. It is spiritual law, a law above all man made laws and those who write man made laws will have to answer to the Creator of Life.

    June 3, 2012 at 2:00 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's only law for you, dear, and those like you who use the Bible to excuse your denial of rights to those of whom you disapprove.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:08 am |
  20. R

    There is no Christian case for gay marriage. The Bible states clearly that marriage is between a man and a woman. Mark, you may be an attorney, but, in this article, you are representing the Prince of the power of the air, or Lucifer, and you are smart enough to know it. You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22 Women must not pretend to be men (or wear men's clothing), and men must not pretend to be women (or wear women's clothing). The Lord your God is disgusted with people who do that. Deut 22:5 That sounds very clear, does it not?

    June 3, 2012 at 1:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Only to people who hate gays and would love to use the Bible as an excuse to continue to discriminate against them.

      Your interpretation of Biblical passages is not the only one. And even if it were, gay marriage will eventually become legal. Your beliefs do not equal law.

      June 3, 2012 at 1:49 am |
    • Bobs Friend

      Tom: Neither do yours

      June 3, 2012 at 1:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Boob, what beliefs would you imagine in your fevered little (very little)brain I am attempting to make into law?

      Go ahead, dearie. I can hardly wait for your incredible insight.

      June 3, 2012 at 2:03 am |
    • JWT

      And yet so many christians and christian churches support gays and gay marriage.

      June 3, 2012 at 9:08 am |
    • Doy

      Bless "R" , I am so glad that some people will take the time to stand up to scholars and those who cross Christian lines. I would never take up a profession that crosses God;s word and acknowledges what man says is law and that it is ok to sin (overide) against God's word. There is still a lot of money out there that can be made honeltly, if God truly orders your steps "My Take" then do not forsake God's word because you are a lawyer it would be easier and more profitalble for you to convert those credits to ministry law and live according ot God's rightous law and let your latter days be better than they are right now. Ask God for direction, (pray) don't make choices because of your profession as "man has a way that seems right but leads to destruction, and the desstruction is not just of the world but to your personal self. Pray, ask God for direction, he will make you free.

      June 3, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • BrownSugarmama

      THANK YOU MY BROTHER! TELL THEM HOW IT I-S! SUGARMAMA GOT YOUR BACK!:)

      June 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • JWT

      Doy – your version of your christian laws do not apply to everyone. Never have and never will.

      June 3, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Jeannine

      The Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed homosexuality activity as unnatural. Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of women expressed in the scriptures was a product of culture and the times in which the Bible was written; it should not be followed today, now that we are beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given equality of men and women.

      Similarly, as we know that homosexuality is just as natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realize that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form of sexual expression which were held by people without benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and understanding.

      It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth century mentality and understanding about equality of genders, races and sexual orientations on the Biblical writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural forms and attitudes expressed there.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:37 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.